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I am so happy for Mirai, Rippon, and the Shibs.  I don't care about their metal color...all of them should be proud.  I think the Americans all had strong performances, except for Chen.  If Chen was better would we have gotten a gold or silver...or do I need a math professor to explain the complex algorithms to me?

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13 minutes ago, qtpye said:

If Chen was better would we have gotten a gold or silver...or do I need a math professor to explain the complex algorithms to me?

Canada had the gold on lockdown, so we never really had a chance at that one.  We wouldn't have gotten silver either, given the Skating While Russian bonus Kolyada received.  Chen's terrible showing didn't really cost us anything in the end, largely because everyone else met or exceeded expectations.

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7 hours ago, CherryMalotte said:

And I'd love to be their roommate!  I can't even imagine - no matter how well mannered they are in public, they look like away from it all they probably have a lot of fun. 

I bet they have burping contests and have races to see who can snort a noodle up their nose the fastest. 

Congrats to both, I'm thrilled Mirai got her 3A and Rippon won me over.  Too bad he was ROBBED.  Good job Shibs, they look like they have some energy.

Congrats to Canada! 

For the individual event, even though they annoy me, I hope V/M get gold just so they can outdo the trashy Grishuk and Platov, (Grishuk is anyway. Evgeni is okay.)

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I completely agree that the scoring system needs to change (and they usually do their overhauls right after the Olympics, right?) The fact that the Olympic Ice commentators are having to explain to a casual audience why people who fell all over the place are scored more highly than people who were clean should not be. It makes this sport look farcical. The Rippon skate is clearly one that has both hardcore and and casual fans shaking their heads, and they need to take a look at that. As for the backloading of the programs for the Russian ladies, I think that the fact that they are, like, fifteen points ahead of their nearest competitors speaks to the fact that it needs to change. I understand that they deserve the current advantage by being the only ones who can perform within those boundaries, but it's an artificial advantage created by a rather arbitrary rule. They should absolutely limit both the number of jumps you can put in the back half as well as the number of jumps for which you get credit for changing your arm position to over your head. 

If Nathan had performed as expected, Shoma might still have won the short program, and the additional two or three points the US would have received wouldn't have closed the gap with Russia. Also, it's impossible to tell if the Knierims would have skated the short program they did if they hadn't HAD to do it after Nathan's falls. That being said, the Russians clearly got several gifts during this event. Kolyada one hundred percent should not have been ranked above Adam in the free, and I also think the short dance from the Russian team was over-ranked by at least one point. If you start to look at the numbers in that way, where the US should have earned more points over Russia but didn't because of gifts from the judging panel, then hypothetically the competition gets a lot closer if Nathan doesn't fall. 

It was so nice to see how genuinely happy team USA was about Mirai's skate. So Karen and Vincent came for night one and Evan and Madi C for night two, making H/D the only members of the US Olympic figure skating team not to put in an appearance to root on team USA. Not surprising, but it would have been nice for them to be the bigger people here. But who knows; maybe it would have cut into the righteous indignation they plan to channel into their individual performance. The scoring for the Shibs in the team event clearly leaves the door open a bit for H/D. That said, my gut feeling based on nothing really at all is that the judges are still most likely to give it to the Shibs over the other American teams. And I absolutely now give the advantage for gold to Tessa and Scott after a very dominant and engaging performance across both programs in the team event. I think skipping it could turn out to be a big mistake for P/C.  

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5 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Oh, Zag certainly deserved to win that free skate, for all the reasons you mentioned.  I just can't with the Adelina defense because, as you said, she did NOT out-jump Yuna.  That line of reasoning was, is, and always will be preposterous; the gap in skating quality between the two was the size of the Grand Canyon.  Seriously, the worst skating result I can recall (give or take the mess that was Baiul over the clean Kerrigan). #justiceforYuna

Omg this brings back bitter memories!

I adore Yuna and she skated beautifully. I was heartbroken when she was beaten by that awful jack on the box girl who kept leaping around the ice looking wobbly and horrid.

***

One thing I don't understand is why a lot of people seem to think Kwan was better than Lipinski. I thought Lipinski nailed her skate that Olympics and Kwan was oddly lethargic and slow looking. Especially her spins! Lipinski was awesome! 

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If Nathan had performed as expected, Shoma might still have won the short program, and the additional two or three points the US would have received wouldn't have closed the gap with Russia. Also, it's impossible to tell if the Knierims would have skated the short program they did if they hadn't HAD to do it after Nathan's falls. That being said, the Russians clearly got several gifts during this event. Kolyada one hundred percent should not have been ranked above Adam in the free, and I also think the short dance from the Russian team was over-ranked by at least one point. If you start to look at the numbers in that way, where the US should have earned more points over Russia but didn't because of gifts from the judging panel, then hypothetically the competition gets a lot closer if Nathan doesn't fall.

The final score was OAR 66 and USA 62. If you'd swapped Adam and Kolyada in the ranking (I will be bitter about this forever) it would be 65-63, so if Nathan performed as expected, and had gotten 2nd in the SP, the US would have tied for silver, and would have won silver if he had taken the SP (assuming Skating While Russian hadn't impacted further scores). I also would have knocked off a point from Russia's Short Ice Dance and given it to the Italians, which would have given the Americans a little more wiggle room. But yeah, it's assumed that the points that Nathan lost, were made up by the Knierims unexpected performance.

I do feel really bad for Nathan. He has so much pressure to perform, and everyone else on his team managed to deliver, and have set a great tone for their individual competitions. Nathan on the other hand has to overcome what was probably the worst performance of his career. I hope he gets things together before the end of the week.

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It's already been said here multiple times I'm sure but I have to chime in--I am So Annoyed at the way Rippon was scored!!  How can someone skate a kick ass performance filled with technical and artistic content and STILL be behind two competitors who Fell Multiple Times???  (I heard the explanations, I just think it's bullshit.)  I mean I get that jumps made later in the program are more difficult and riskier, thus earning a higher score.  I can get behind that.  Apart from that, I still think he was totally robbed.  I think he was awesome.  Mirai was excellent too.  Couldn't stay up late enough to watch the Shib Sibs, but I am happy USA got a medal.

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1 hour ago, Jillibean said:

It was so nice to see how genuinely happy team USA was about Mirai's skate. So Karen and Vincent came for night one and Evan and Madi C for night two, making H/D the only members of the US Olympic figure skating team not to put in an appearance to root on team USA. Not surprising, but it would have been nice for them to be the bigger people here. But who knows; maybe it would have cut into the righteous indignation they plan to channel into their individual performance. The scoring for the Shibs in the team event clearly leaves the door open a bit for H/D. That said, my gut feeling based on nothing really at all is that the judges are still most likely to give it to the Shibs over the other American teams. And I absolutely now give the advantage for gold to Tessa and Scott after a very dominant and engaging performance across both programs in the team event. I think skipping it could turn out to be a big mistake for P/C.  

Oh, I definitely noticed that Hubble and Donahue were no-shows in the Team USA box, while Chock and Bates, who were also not selected, were there on two of the three nights, AT LEAST.  Makes me root for Chock and Bates over Hubble and Donahue even more. All the more reason that I do NOT want to see them complete the Montreal Sweep of the Olympic podium.  I noticed on the whacko V/M secret baby blog (yes, I read some of it. I feel shame), that they do not like H/D because Madison and Gabriella Papadakis are BFF's and working against Virtue and Moir.  So I guess Madison AND Gabriella are the new Meryl Davis up in Secret Baby Land. 

Here's another question. Team Canada had another substitution to give. They really didn't NEED Virtue and Moir's free skate. They could have given one of the other dance teams a shot at a gold medal.  Was this gamesmanship? Sticking it to Russia (which I'm fully behind them doing), or making a statement to the judges that Papadakis and Cizeron are NOT the pre-determined gold medalists.  

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Here's another question. Team Canada had another substitution to give. They really didn't NEED Virtue and Moir's free skate. They could have given one of the other dance teams a shot at a gold medal. Was this gamesmanship? Sticking it to Russia (which I'm fully behind them doing), or making a statement to the judges that Papadakis and Cizeron are NOT the pre-determined gold medalists.

Virtue/Moir were the team captains, so maybe they felt it was their duty to do both programs, but really, they could have subbed in the Canadian Ice Hockey Team and still taken the gold. Strategically, given how strict the Ice Dancing judges were on the Short Program, it makes sense that Virtue/Moir would want to test out their free dance to see what the judges might be picky about so that they can improve it for the individual competition, so I can't really fault them for that.

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12 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

No that was her. It's ironic because here's a recent video of her:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Young-Skater-Wants-to-Follow-Olympic-Mothers-Footsteps-465237453.html

And she's very in shape. 

Not the same thing can be said about Artur:

image.png.ab922d93fe5dffb8f7733e376e814a7b.png

 

Artur looks like he is suffering from Puffy Alcoholism Face.  Maybe too much vodka? He should get into shape. (/snark)

Natalia's daughter is cute as a button.  I'd love to see her skate for the U.S. in seniors, someday. Her mother was beautiful to watch. 

In Secret Baby Blog Land (stop me. It's ice skating drama crack. SO addictive....and unintentionally hilarious), they're claiming that Papadakis and Cizeron are hiding an injury, due to the fact that first they claimed that they would come to the Opening Ceremonies and march with Team France, and WOULD participate in the Team Event, then they changed their minds about both. 

Edited by ChicksDigScars
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No- they couldn't have done that with V/M. Substitutions cannot be made on the day, start lists were finalised the day before. Chan is unreliable at best, and Daleman has had her share of messy skates too. At that point, they had no idea they wouldn't need V/M's 10 points for gold, and W/P could well have ended up 4th. 

Edited by herbz
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I'm wondering if perhaps the scoring system can be changed to make falling/failing to land cleanly a bigger point deduction? Here I am with a child that figure skates, who tends to rush his landings and wants to include jumps he has down about 75% - but his coach won't allow him to include anything that's not 100% and emphasizes clean landings that are held properly - meanwhile we're watching the Olympics and skaters are falling but scoring higher just because they tried a higher jump. What's that teaching a young skater? 

5 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Artur looks like he is suffering from Puffy Alcoholism Face.  Maybe too much vodka? He should get into shape. (/snark)

Natalia's daughter is cute as a button.  I'd love to see her skate for the U.S. in seniors, someday. Her mother was beautiful to watch. 

In Secret Baby Blog Land (stop me. It's ice skating drama crack. SO addictive....and unintentionally hilarious), they're claiming that Papadakis and Cizeron are hiding an injury, due to the fact that first they claimed that they would come to the Opening Ceremonies and march with Team France, and WOULD participate in the Team Event, then they changed their minds about both. 

Any links for the skating drama blog? Asking for a friend...

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I don't get the Shibutanis.  Technically they're very good, but even though that program was better than the short and an improvement from the Nationals, it was just 'eh' to me.  I never seen any feeling for the music from them and little personality when they skate.  For me, they're just there, nothing special.  Although I'll admit to being impressed by their Twizzles.

The Italians were wonderful, and it seemed to me that they were underscored.  The Russians were, well, Russian, overwrought and almost laughable.  Virtue and Moir are clearly on a whole different level than most, if not all, of the teams here, although of course we haven't seen the #1 French pair yet.

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2 hours ago, Jillibean said:

I completely agree that the scoring system needs to change (and they usually do their overhauls right after the Olympics, right?)

There are multiple rule changes which are scheduled to go into effect next season. The base value of quads are going to be reduced, the GOEs will be from +5 to -5, the number of jump passes will be reduced, increased deductions for multiple falls, and Men's and Pairs long programs will be reduced to 4 minutes (because the President of the ISU thinks the competitions go on too long), No change to the bonus period but the ISU will meet this summer and I'm sure that it will be discussed.

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Jeez, I couldn't read more than a paragraph of that blog I had so much second hand embarrassment. I'm going to try and scrub its existence from my brain.

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11 hours ago, stealinghome said:

If that was the ShibSibs skating that program "inspired," I'd hate to see them do that program UNinspired. Am I the only one who found that boring? I thought the Italian program was more interesting.

Their twizzles are very pretty though.

Nope, I thought it was boring as hell.

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You have been warned about the Secret Baby blog. It's hilariously delusional. I mean HOW does Tessa have THREE babies in between skating seasons for the past 8 years? What is her secret? No pouchy tummy or saggy boobs. It's amazing.  (cough, cough)

 

I've noticed that with the Olympic Channel rerunning Nationals, Europeans, Grand Prix Final, Four Continents, plus past Olympic figure skating since the holidays,  and the Grand Prix Events before that, it's been like Skateapalooza.  It also makes me recognize the musical selections and identify it with certain skaters.  Such as, the opening notes of the Italian's short dance keep running in my head today for some reason.  

 

Oh, and I've had enough Moulin Rouge, thanks.  It's been used more than Carmen and Nessun Dorma this season. 

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1 minute ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Oh, and I've had enough Moulin Rouge, thanks.  It's been used more than Carmen and Nessun Dorma this season. 

Ugh, yes. Make it stop. So sick of "Come What May". Music selections should get permanent lifetime bans after they have been used X number of times. 

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I think they should start deducting from the Composition score (which is part of the program components score) for programs that have all of the jumps in the second half. I love Zagitova's free skate, and I think she is completely amazing, but I do think that composition suffers when all of the jumps are crammed into the end of the skate. They could at least deduct a point from composition for it. Then the skater would still get extra points for doing the jumps in the second half, because that's valid as a difficult thing to do, but maybe it would slightly discourage it. Zagitova's composition score was 9.39 last night (Mirai's was 7.89, for comparison).

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10 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

There are multiple rule changes which are scheduled to go into effect next season. The base value of quads are going to be reduced, the GOEs will be from +5 to -5, the number of jump passes will be reduced, increased deductions for multiple falls, and Men's and Pairs long programs will be reduced to 4 minutes (because the President of the ISU thinks the competitions go on too long), No change to the bonus period but the ISU will meet this summer and I'm sure that it will be discussed.

I don't even want them to get rid of the bonus altogether. Just cap it so there is an incentive to jump throughout the program and not just at the front or back. Maybe 3 jumps in the back half are eligible for the bonus for the long and 1 in the short. I definitely think you should be rewarded for jumping on tired legs but if you're not doing any jumps in the first half of your program, your legs aren't going to be as tired.

I'm probably the odd one out that I don't mind the Tanos. If that's always harder, you should always get a bonus for going it.

Where I do think the judges aren't being reasonable is with the composition score. If every jump looks the same or a skater spends 2 minutes covering the ice, that's not a well composed program and that should be reflected in the scores.

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37 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I don't get the Shibutanis.  Technically they're very good, but even though that program was better than the short and an improvement from the Nationals, it was just 'eh' to me.  I never seen any feeling for the music from them and little personality when they skate.  For me, they're just there, nothing special.  Although I'll admit to being impressed by their Twizzles.

The Italians were wonderful, and it seemed to me that they were underscored.  The Russians were, well, Russian, overwrought and almost laughable.  Virtue and Moir are clearly on a whole different level than most, if not all, of the teams here, although of course we haven't seen the #1 French pair yet.

 I get the same impression. I'm not sure I agree with the prevailing sentiment that they're continuously held down in scores solely because they are a sibling team and can't do romantic or sexy routines. They are technically good, but not so amazing that it makes up for other shortcomings IMO. In Ice Dance especially I feel you need to have great musicality and charisma. The Shibs seem very controlled and sometimes stiff, and to me it feels like they rely on the music to bring the personality to their routines, instead of acting as storytellers themselves. Even Tanith noted that the energy in the arena went up once the Italians skated after the Shibutanis in the SD.

 

Word from a journalist is that Yuzuru looked good in practice. Landed a 3A then left. I hope he's recovered well from his injury.

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1 hour ago, herbz said:

No- they couldn't have done that with V/M. Substitutions cannot be made on the day, start lists were finalised the day before. Chan is unreliable at best, and Daleman has had her share of messy skates too. At that point, they had no idea they wouldn't need V/M's 10 points for gold, and W/P could well have ended up 4th. 

I was about to post the same thing—Canada didn’t know for sure that they didn’t need Vortue/Moir until like half an hour before the ice dancing. Had either Chan or Daleman had a fluky accident, tripped, and broken a leg, V/M would’ve been needed to try to salvage the bronze. By the time Team Canada knew V/M weren’t needed, it was way too late to sub.

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1 hour ago, ChicksDigScars said:

You have been warned about the Secret Baby blog. It's hilariously delusional. I mean HOW does Tessa have THREE babies in between skating seasons for the past 8 years? What is her secret? No pouchy tummy or saggy boobs. It's amazing.  (cough, cough)

 

Industrial grade Spanx under her costume? 

 

(ducking and running away)

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6 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

Why does it have to be a secret if they have babies??  I am very intrigued by this.

Never underestimate how crazy some people can be.  From my understanding, Tessa and Scott are not dating and never have been.  But some people seem so determined to see them together that they have invented this fantasy life for them, where they are secretly married unbeknownst to the public and have these secret babies that they keep out of the public eye.  Or something like that.

What I would really like to know is if people actually believe this or if they are just having fun and if it's some kind of fan fiction.

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2 hours ago, herbz said:

No- they couldn't have done that with V/M. Substitutions cannot be made on the day, start lists were finalised the day before. Chan is unreliable at best, and Daleman has had her share of messy skates too. At that point, they had no idea they wouldn't need V/M's 10 points for gold, and W/P could well have ended up 4th. 

Yeah, it's a bit of a shame that Weaver and Poje couldn't get in there for a medal, but I kind of love that Canada really went all in for this event. The one substitution they did make was between two ladies who are pretty evenly matched.

Anyways, watching this event was a nice reminder of what a terrific generation of Canadian skaters this group is. I assume that, ladies-aside, they'll all be retiring after these games so it's great to see them go out on top like this.

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Lots of good comments here re: the team event.  And thanks to the person who provided the link to that article on Natalia.  I was a big Natalia/Artur fan back in the day (well, of their skating, not Artur's treatment of Natalia). Speaking of pairs, I have to admit that I find it hard to watch Duhamel/Radford.  I guess to me they epitomize what pairs skating has become (and why I no longer love this discipline).  She's about half his height and, IMO, there's no connection between them (as some commentators have said, she's always counting off the pts as they're skating--I think that shows) so to me, they are definitely not "two skating as one" as pairs was meant to be.  I know it's a sport and skaters need to keep pushing the boundaries, but it would be nice if there were some parts of pairs skating where the two really skate as one (remember Tai & Randi's gorgeous Ina Bauer that went from one end of the rink to the other?) It's the same in singles skating (w/ the exception of a few skaters who manage to include some beautiful skating between the jumps).

So, yeah!  Where were Hubbell & Donohue during the team event?  

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1 minute ago, annzeepark914 said:

So, yeah!  Where were Hubbell & Donohue during the team event?  

Probably using the time to practice. They weren't part of the team event so they didn't really need to be there. 

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Didn't Evgeni Platov give Grishuk his wedding ring?  (He was still married to Maia Usova at the time).  If so, that's pretty trashy.  If I remember my past gossip correctly, she (Grishuk) wore it on a chain around her next.  (That should have been neck.  Whoops).

Oh, Artur Dmitriev!  He was so horrible to Natalia - calling her names, announcing that he was skating to a new partner on live TV without telling her first.  I was actively rooting against him and his new partner in 1998, to no avail.  I remember that this was an enormous Thing, because Sergei Grinkov had died a few years earlier, and apparently, he and Artur were good friends.  I remember seeing Artur bow to Ekaterina in the stands, and thinking, "Am I the only one who remembers how terribly he treated his first partner?"  

I am unrealistically hoping that Adam and Mirai make serious runs for the podium.  I know it's all-but-impossible, unless they both skate perfectly and other people fall, but it's so wonderful to see them both do so incredibly well and surpass everyone's expectations.

Edited by SophiaD
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I so enjoyed last night's team event. Seeing Adam, Mirai, and the ShibSibs bring their A games was awesome (if nerve wracking). Lurking here to read everyone's comments and commentary makes watching figure skating (Olympic or otherwise) even better.

I'm delurking because I have to share a moment that I haven't seen mentioned here yet (if it has been shared, many apologies). I loved watching the replay of Mirai's triple axel. In the background, you can see the team from Canada react to it, and it is delightful. I'm not a fan of Duhamel/Radford (I long for the days of G&G), but seeing Megan Duhamel stand up and cheer when Mirai nailed the jump was endearing and adorable.

Edited by sweeks · Reason: *Because getting the ShibSibs nickname correct is important to me
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I am unrealistically hoping that Adam and Mirai make serious runs for the podium. I know it's all-but-impossible, unless they both skate perfectly and other people fall, but it's so wonderful to see them both do so incredibly well and surpass everyone's expectations.

I think Adam's base value is just too low to compete. I do wonder, though, if Mirai can hold onto her triple axel through both programs, if she could make a run for bronze. It's a long shot, but it's making the women's competition a lot more exciting for me!

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No one’s posted about the new drama with Ashley Wagner?  She took to Twitter last night to talk about how she, too, was uncomfortable with this business of the Russian women totally backloading their programs. No diss to the girls personally, just talking about how the programs looked lopsided and boring. Well now the Russian higher ups are insulted and are throwing shade at her left, right, and center. Alexei Yagudin really pissed me off because he made it personal. If I can find the link to their comments, I’ll post. Ashley’s comments are on her Twitter page. 

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8 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

I think Adam's base value is just too low to compete. I do wonder, though, if Mirai can hold onto her triple axel through both programs, if she could make a run for bronze. It's a long shot, but it's making the women's competition a lot more exciting for me!

How is a skater's base value determined?

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3 minutes ago, COESpiral said:

new drama with Ashley Wagner?

Ugh.  She really rubs me the wrong way.  She made the team last Olympics which I thought was totally wrong and undeserved.  This year she is not a part of it but still trying to make herself relevant.  I liked when Adam was being interviewed and he said last Olympics he and Mirai were bummed not to be a part of it but this year they are both there and how Mirai especially really deserves it.  I took this as a dig towards Ashley, whose took Mirai's spot last time (probably imagined but she really bugs).

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31 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

I am unrealistically hoping that Adam and Mirai make serious runs for the podium.  I know it's all-but-impossible, unless they both skate perfectly and other people fall, but it's so wonderful to see them both do so incredibly well and surpass everyone's expectations.

I am clinging to Mirai’s overachieving performances at Olympics. She got fourth the first go round and landed a triple axel this time and six triple jumps. Go Mirai! 

Edited by leopardprint
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How is a skater's base value determined?

By the elements they have programmed. Men's skating right now is driven by how many quads you can stuff in. Nathan Chen, I think, has 5 in his free skate, where as Adam just removed the one quad he had, because he wasn't landing it reliably. And we saw in the Men's program, that the judges are willing to reward skaters who quad-n-splat, then those who skate a beautifully clean program (I still can't believe Adam and Kolyada got the same PCS!!!!!!)

I liked when Adam was being interviewed and he said last Olympics he and Mirai were bummed not to be a part of it but this year they are both there and how Mirai especially really deserves it. I took this as a dig towards Ashley, whose took Mirai's spot last time (probably imagined but she really bugs).

I don't know. Adam is really good friends with Ashley, AND he made this Olympic team under the exact same circumstances that Ashley did four years ago (except his international record wasn't nearly as strong) so it would be really hypocritical of him to throw shade. I do love the In N Out story though. It's really cute.

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19 minutes ago, COESpiral said:

No one’s posted about the new drama with Ashley Wagner?  She took to Twitter last night to talk about how she, too, was uncomfortable with this business of the Russian women totally backloading their programs. No diss to the girls personally, just talking about how the programs looked lopsided and boring. Well now the Russian higher ups are insulted and are throwing shade at her left, right, and center. Alexei Yagudin really pissed me off because he made it personal. If I can find the link to their comments, I’ll post. Ashley’s comments are on her Twitter page. 

Too bad she's absolutely RIGHT about the back loading. 

And Yagudin asking, "Where is she?" as a way to bully her into silence? Fuck him. She's entitled to her opinion, and she's the same place that you are pal. WATCHING the Olympics. 

Judging from the Russian reaction, which includes Sotnikova coming out of the woodwork to defend the "art" of back loading, Ashley struck a nerve. 

 

 

backloading.JPG

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43 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

Didn't Evgeni Platov give Grishuk his wedding ring?  (He was still married to Maia Usova at the time).  If so, that's pretty trashy.  If I remember my past gossip correctly, she (Grishuk) wore it on a chain around her next.

Blerg!  I can't even see the name Grishuk without being overcome with the seething rage that was Lillehammer Ice dancing.  Never forget, Torville and Dean were robbed.

 

As far as scoring goes, there appears to be the same issues as there are with gymnastics.  In Rio we all complained of the Chinese men turning in sloppy performances but still scoring 15 above because of high start values.  Now in figure skating everyone throws in jumps they can't complete but still get rewarded for.  I'm sorry but a fall is a fall, you haven't mastered a jump don't put it in your program.  A perfectly executed triple should not be ranked below a botched quad.  I'm not advocating playing it safe but I agree with those upthread that mistakes need to be further penalized.  Under rotate a quad and fall, get dinged not only as a fall but as a triple.  I remember skaters on the 6.0 system receiving nothing higher than a 5.5, usually less, if there was a fall.  I know it changed because the 6.0 system was more favorable to judge collusion but there is still scoring issues 16 years after Pairsgate so what have they really accomplished?

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(I still can't believe Adam and Kolyada got the same PCS!!!!!!)

The scoring brings to mind US Nationals when Ashley complained that her component scores should have been higher. Both she and Adam sort of rely on high component scores to make up for their lack of technical merit and the judges this season just aren't having it. They're more interested in rewarding the jumps than the artistry. This seemed egregiously obvious with Kolyada - no way his component scores should have been anywhere near Rippon's. The judges seem to be collectively sending a message to the skaters to step up their games and add quads and triple-triple combos. 

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