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Sew Sumi

Season 7 Discussion

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Yes, I agree that Trace's bible diploma is useless to him. He's not aspiring to be a preacher that I'm aware of so I think it was mostly a waste of time. He could have pursued a trade-like diploma that would help him in THIS life....nothing wrong in learning about God and all, but I have to wonder ..these kids have had bible, bible, bible, drilled in to them from when they were born. Just how much BIBLE does a person need? Aren't they going over and over exactly the same text numerous times?

Why aren't they continuing their spiritual education in taking theology courses...perhaps learn ABOUT who or what it is that the Creator might be? What does this power actually expect of us in this life? I think you all know what I'm getting at here. They really stay on the same shallow plane of learning. No real growth IMO.

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15 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Crown doesn't do an actual student teaching and field experience sequence. She could do an observation based culminating class or seminar. She graduated, which means she can teach in a Christian private school so long as there are enough certified teachers in staff for them to have\keep accreditation. 

she would have to pass additional coursework and praxis exams to get her Tennessee license. I am doubtful she would go through those steps with a baby on the way. Not to mention she would not probably want to teach in a public school anyway. 

Thank you for posting this, I was curious what kind of teaching degree she actually had.  This clears things up 100%.  I am only able to watch the show occasionally but follow them all on Instagram, last week when one of the Bates fan pages posted a photo of Tori in her cap and gown AND announcing she was pregnant I just thought, wow way to put all that money and time and effort for that degree into nothing.  I am so like you, some of the best times of my life looking back were when the only person I had to think about was myself and my boyfriend.  Yes I love my kids but life changes as it should with them.  Everyone has choices and decisions to make that work for them but I just wish someone would pull one of these girls aside and say hey slow down, enjoy one major life change at a time.  I guess I should just be thankful their parents let them go to Clown College at all....

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1 hour ago, floridamom said:

Yes, I agree that Trace's bible diploma is useless to him. He's not aspiring to be a preacher that I'm aware of so I think it was mostly a waste of time. He could have pursued a trade-like diploma that would help him in THIS life....nothing wrong in learning about God and all, but I have to wonder ..these kids have had bible, bible, bible, drilled in to them from when they were born. Just how much BIBLE does a person need? Aren't they going over and over exactly the same text numerous times?

Why aren't they continuing their spiritual education in taking theology courses...perhaps learn ABOUT who or what it is that the Creator might be? What does this power actually expect of us in this life? I think you all know what I'm getting at here. They really stay on the same shallow plane of learning. No real growth IMO.

Good point! Shouldn't they know everything they need to know about God and the Bible by 18? Its not like their going to learn anything beyond the very narrow view of Gothard's views on the Bible. What else do they need to learn?  

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1 hour ago, dixiemama said:

I guess I should just be thankful their parents let them go to Clown College at all....

I agree. Even if Clown isn't blazing trails for their academics, it's still better than nothing. The Bates kids are at least getting out of the house, learning and socializing among their peers. I know the school is very conservative and filled with like-minded people, but at least their lives have a level or normalcy. 

Edited by BitterApple
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So looks like Crown's tuition for a commuter student is $3300/semester or $6600/yr, that means 13.2k total for a 2 yr degree like Josie's and 26.4k for a 4 yr degree like Tori and Trace (I assume Bible studies is 4 yrs bc Trace is 21-22 now). What a waste. For Tori, she's literally not even going to work 1 school year. Mid school year pregnancy is always tough for teachers but when you've been working at a school for a few years with a good track record, schools work around it. If you show up, interview and say -- oh I can start in Aug but then will be gone by Nov bc BABY and of course I want to be home for a year with said baby and then I'll probably be pregnant with #2 -- the school's gonna say, uh call us when you're actually ready to work. Gil and Kelly are old world -- in their minds, a girl should have an education "just in case" she HAS TO provide if everything went wrong with the marriage . . . . Never occurs to them that any woman would WANT to work -- to have her own experiences outside of wife and mommy, to provide financially to her family, to use her brain etc. And that's exactly what they've imparted in their girls.

As for Trace -- Bible Study -- give me a break. Why do you need a college degree in that -- unless you're going to an actual seminary, not some unaccredited college. Trace was one of the ones who didn't really want to go to college. Kelly had the heart to heart with him in the thrift store -- LOL -- when he was nearing the end of high school and he said he wanted to work for Gil's tree cutting business and take over Lawson's law business if Law was doing music fulltime. Kelly was the one who said -- we want all the kids to go for one semester and if it isn't for you, you can quit then. Guess he didn't hate it bc he stayed with it for 4 yrs getting a worthless degree. Crown has 2 trade programs for boys -- HVAC and auto/diesel tech (I cannot imagine any girl would be allowed to enroll). Either would be a way to make good $$$. Or he could have gone the same route as Kelton and Chad -- both studied finance at their similar fundie colleges. Kelton knew he was going to go back to Tenn. and work in his uncle's plumbing business, but the finance degree probably allows him to do some work managing the books and if one day he takes over that business/starts his own plumbing business -- then that business background will be helpful. More than Trace's bible degree will help him in tree work!?

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10 hours ago, BitterApple said:

it was pretty damn stupid of Trace not to do the trade school. That Bible degree is absolutely useless.

Trace doesn't seem to have done any kind of degree program.  It looks like he did the one year Bible certificate thing - same thing Joe Duggar did.  Why is indeed the question as it doesn't appear to lead to anything.

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Trace only went for 2 years, earning an Associates (according to Kelly) I think he was around 19 when Kelly ostensibly talked him into going to Clown. He's 21 now. 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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He was there for two years. There was an episode in which he had some of the basketball team over after they laid the court. It was spring then, and he talked about trying out  "next year." He was a bench warmer on this past season's team, and brought teammates back to the house for another game of pickup.

Edited by Sew Sumi

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Not to beat a dead horse and maybe it took Trace two years to do the one year course, but the only associate degree I can find on Crown's website is for office management under business. 

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Take it up with Kelly. She's the one who claimed the AA in biblical studies. Whatever he did, he did it in two years. Maybe with the tree work he couldn't take a full courseload of even Clown curriculum?

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Kelly didn't claim an AA for Trace on Instagram.  She listed the Bible program just as she did for Josie along with her cosmetology.  Where did she list an AA for Trace? 

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Ooooh.....she edited the post. Hand to bible she claimed an AA when I first saw it.

Edited by Sew Sumi · Reason: Still learning not to hit send before re-reading my tablet's autocorrect. Eeks!
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On 5/12/2018 at 1:17 PM, BitterApple said:

I agree. Even if Clown isn't blazing trails for their academics, it's still better than nothing. The Bates kids are at least getting out of the house, learning and socializing among their peers. I know the school is very conservative and filled with like-minded people, but at least their lives have a level or normalcy. 

At least when they’re at CC, they’re temporarily eradicating that BS “Bates Time” they all seem to function on. 

Having to attend classes on time is also a good way to practice learning how to be on time - that life skill that is imperative to overall success and is usually taught in Kindergarten.

I wonder if they’re ever late to church?

I do have to give Tori credit (as much as it pains me) for keeping her wedding day on schedule by cracking the whip. We all know WHY she really wanted to rush things along, but I like that she wasn’t going to keep people waiting because her 299934 family members all had to hug her before she walked down the aisle. Her behavior at the “reception”, (as well as the other brides we’ve seen on similar TV programs) is still horrifying and rude because their hormones are raging. I’ve never noticed a groom seem “so eager to leave”, at least not one that I can remember.

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Actually, I'll bet this is what Trace did:

(Under the "Academics" tab on the Clown College homepage, there is a section entitled "Knoxville School of the Bible" and classes are held at CC; classes are only $25 each or $60 if you take all 3 classes each semester!)

Complete all twelve courses and earn a Biblical Studies Certificate!  Graduates of the Knoxville School of the Bible may participate in the commencement exercises of Crown College.

Course Schedule

Year One

Fall Semester
SB101    Personal Evangelism
SB102    Survey of the Old Testament I
SB103    Basic Bible Doctrine I

Spring Semester
SB201    Methods of Bible Study
SB202    Survey of the Old Testament II
SB203    Basic Bible Doctrine II

Year Two

Fall Semester
SB301    Teaching the Bible
SB302    The Christian Home
SB303    Survey of the New Testament I

Spring Semester
SB401    Survey of the New Testament II
SB402    The New Testament Church
SB403    The Life of Christ

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So the episode was a mix of past weddings/engagements - basically a repeat.

Watching it, I had to go back and look at when Chad and Erin married bc Chad looked SO young and fresh faced. Can't believed how much he has aged in only 4.5 years of marriage. Though I guess a few miscarriages; a wife crying 24-7 about how they'd never have a baby; 3 high risk pregnancies -- with the attendant insurance/medical costs Chad was responsible for; and leaving a job and steady paycheck to start a business all in 4.5 years would age anyone. Though that's also why normal people don't do all of these things in under 5 years absent some kind of dire reason -- like meeting your spouse around age 40 and quickly wanting to have a baby before the fertility window completely closes. And even then I've known couples to quickly have 1 -- and kind of leave it up to mother nature whether they'd conceive kids #2 or 3.

Interesting that Erin admitted that she thought getting married, kissing and having sex all on the same day would be mind blowing and she was scared going in. But then of course it all ended up fine bc they were horny as hell -- couched in the fundie speak of "natural desires" etc.

Interesting to see Alyssa and John's wedding which wasn't aired previously (I don't think). Ugly as hell with bridesmaids looking like their hot pink and turquoise blue dresses were picked by a kindergarten who only likes pink and blue in the crayon box. But interesting that John cried thru the ceremony. He otherwise comes across so stoic and manly that I wouldn't have expected emotion. Alyssa OTOH was clearly ready to get out of dodge. Just before walking down the aisle with Gil she tells him -- you'll just raise another Alyssa. Damn. Hope he realizes his kids feel interchangeable. At least he was sweet and said there can never be another Alyssa.

And interesting to see that Nathan has always been a jackass. In a recent episode he was overly opinionated re Tori's hair -- when it's her damn choice how to wear her hair and if she needs help, she has 10000 sisters to ask. Well he and Lawson went dress shopping with Michaela, and in the TH Lawson acted like a regular guy and said "if a woman asks how she looks, the answer is always beautiful/perfect." Nathan acted like a dick and went on about "if you need a real opinion, you have to ask a man, a man's opinion is the one that counts; and if a woman doesn't look good in a dress, I'd tell her she doesn't look her best." And then at the dress shop he was overly interested and opinionated about the pros/cons of every dress. OTOH Gil and Lawson told Michaela she looked great in every dress and at some point started looking at their watches as they wondered how many more dresses she'd try -- like normal guys. What's up with Nathan?? Is he on a fundie power trip of-- a man must approve every decision and since their fiances can't approve this one and my dad and bro don't seem to care, they must get MY approval? Is he a fashion designer at heart? Though Lawson is described as a clothes horse (about his own clothes - not women's clothes) and he doesn't act that way!?

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Methinks Nathan may still be bitter over his failed courtship. Ashley realizing they were a bad match and having the guts to admit it and call the whole thing off is the exact oppposite of what women are supposed to do in their culture. I think Nathan's brush with female empowerment has left him deeply insecure and he's compensating by being a nitpicking asshole.

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12 hours ago, cereality said:

So the episode was a mix of past weddings/engagements - basically a repeat.

Watching it, I had to go back and look at when Chad and Erin married bc Chad looked SO young and fresh faced. Can't believed how much he has aged in only 4.5 years of marriage. Though I guess a few miscarriages; a wife crying 24-7 about how they'd never have a baby; 3 high risk pregnancies -- with the attendant insurance/medical costs Chad was responsible for; and leaving a job and steady paycheck to start a business all in 4.5 years would age anyone. Though that's also why normal people don't do all of these things in under 5 years absent some kind of dire reason -- like meeting your spouse around age 40 and quickly wanting to have a baby before the fertility window completely closes. And even then I've known couples to quickly have 1 -- and kind of leave it up to mother nature whether they'd conceive kids #2 or 3.

Interesting that Erin admitted that she thought getting married, kissing and having sex all on the same day would be mind blowing and she was scared going in. But then of course it all ended up fine bc they were horny as hell -- couched in the fundie speak of "natural desires" etc.

Interesting to see Alyssa and John's wedding which wasn't aired previously (I don't think). Ugly as hell with bridesmaids looking like their hot pink and turquoise blue dresses were picked by a kindergarten who only likes pink and blue in the crayon box. But interesting that John cried thru the ceremony. He otherwise comes across so stoic and manly that I wouldn't have expected emotion. Alyssa OTOH was clearly ready to get out of dodge. Just before walking down the aisle with Gil she tells him -- you'll just raise another Alyssa. Damn. Hope he realizes his kids feel interchangeable. At least he was sweet and said there can never be another Alyssa.

 

I have always thought that exact same thing about Alyssa's wedding! The flowers were butt ugly too (at least in the photos I've seen) - even THEY were freakin matchy-matchy with the ugly dresses and the groomsmen's vests.

(No offense to anyone here who was a teenage bride or has one in their immediate family for the next part.)

I know she was a teenage bride, so maybe that's where the hideous color scheme emanated from? Her favorite colors at the time? I'd love to know if she could go back and do it all over again, what colors would she choose for her wedding? She's pretty fashionable as an "adult", so I highly doubt she'd choose the same hideous colors. To be captured on film and video. Forever!

I found Erin's overuse of cornflower blue and hydrangeas at her November wedding TOO much as well. 

I forgot how ugly Brandon's brown suit was until I saw it again. I understand the reason for Michaella chossingvthe cherry blossom theme, but her bridesmaids wore some fugly dresses too. I found them to be very blah and frumpy, but maybe I'm biased because Kelly Jo was a part of the wedding party. I just think it's weird and I totally admit it. 

Tori's choice for bridesmaid dresses could have been pretty, but I thought that shade of mauve wasn't flattering on anyone. I'm super biased/partial to navy blue, but even if the attendants wore gray dresses, it would've been so much nicer than that ugly mauve. If she loves purple so much, eggplant or aubergine would have been stunning and appropriate for a winter wedding (and would have been gorgeous with the navy suits).

I still think Terrible Tori's wedding gown was the most stunning/chic/fashionable design when compared to what her sisters chose to wear on their wedding days. 

I honestly couldn’t tell you a single detail about her sisters’ dresses except that their dresses were white and they all had cap sleeves. (I could be wrong) Alyssa’s almost veered into a tank style at the top part of her dress. As much as I can’t stand Tori, her choice looked like an actual “gown” instead of a “dress”, if that makes any sense.

Full disclosure: I might even want to copy it/use as inspiration when the time comes for me to walk down the aisle. (Please don't judge!)

While I unabashedly love Gil & wish he was my dad (minus the whole Fundie part), I caught something tonight that was odd. It wasn’t a “Duggar Father of the Bride” odd creepy thing, but was I the only one who thought it was odd that he kissed his daughters on the cheek right before they were about to kiss their husbands for the 1st time? A kiss on the cheek should be before you “hand your daughter off at the end of the aisle”, not just as she’s about to kiss her husband for the first time.

Edited by Bridget · Reason: Snarkiness was cut off
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26 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Methinks Nathan may still be bitter over his failed courtship. Ashley realizing they were a bad match and having the guts to admit it and call the whole thing off is the exact oppposite of what women are supposed to do in their culture. I think Nathan's brush with female empowerment has left him deeply insecure and he's compensating by being a nitpicking asshole.

You're so right! While either party can theoretically break off a courtship, you know fundie guys are raised to think -- it is MY choice who I marry and the woman just goes along bc ANY fundie woman will be jumping for the chance to marry me, despite my lack of skills/friends/education/self awareness/exposure to the real world bc after all I am soooo Godly and am there only chance at them fulfilling their life purpose of being a mother. So while Ashley expressed reservation about leaving her life behind in NYC to come live in BFE Tenn with her hillbilly cowboy wannabe, you know Nathan was thinking (and I bet you Gil and Kelly were putting in his ear), OF COURSE she'll get over it and want to be with me bc she'll see that I and my way of life are superior and that I am saving her from the sinful life in NYC. And when she had the nerve to break it off, he likely "turned against" outgoing/opinionated women bc how dare a woman have the last word on anything whether a relationship or a hairstyle. I believe he/his sisters had said that Ashley was a lot like Tori/Carlin/Josie -- feisty/opinionated etc. Maybe he now needs to turn to finding a "traditional" fundie bride like an Anna Duggar or Tabitha Paine type. Someone he can meet at a homeschool convention who will smile at him adoringly and be sooooo impressed by the fact that he's on a minor TV show.

Funny how Nathan's failed courtship made him more entrenched that he is THE man/his way is right etc., whereas Zach turned inward and looked more at his shortcomings. After his failed courtship, Zach said something about how he realized that he didn't know how to talk to girls and when he met Whit, he'd go to the restaurant where she waitressed and just chat with her about daily life etc. and that's how they got to be friends for a bit before dating. Who knows while he hasn't said, maybe Zach also thought -- a relationship only works if both people are happy so who am I to say that my wife MUST bear 10 children or CANNOT work or CANNOT watch TV, what if those things don't make her happy; maybe he thought -- hmm I'll be FLEXIBLE and see what my wife does/doesn't like and we'll decide things together rather than me just deciding for her bc I'm the headship.

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So when Gil was explaining being completely pure when getting married he somehow didn't mention Zach and Nathan's failed first courtships.  I forgot what an ass Nathan was at the bridal shop. Thanks for the reminder show! Its becoming more clear why Ashley bolted and why Nathan hasn't found anyone since. I did like Erin bringing up how fast everything goes you go from hugs and hand holding to kissing and sex.  That's a real fast change.  

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Jud is officially the best Bates wedding material when he comes of age.  "I think an engagement ring should cost $3550.00". I so totally would watch an entire half hour of Jud and Jeb commenting from the couch!

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It's kind of strange to me that Michael had Kelly in her wedding, because from what I've seen Kelly treats Erin and Alyssa like they walk on water while Michael's only given crumbs of attention when alterations need to be done.

I remember Michael saying something to the effect that she wanted her mother in the bridal party because Kelly was her "best friend," but I don't get that vibe from them at all.

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I noticed when they were showing Gil and Kelly’s wedding pictures, there was a bow on the cake table in bright pink and turquoise. Maybe Alyssa picked those colors as a nod towards her parents.

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I wonder if Kelly is getting up at 0400 EST on Satuday to watch the Royal Wedding to get tips for the next Bates girlie , with her 100 pg composition book in hand..

Actually Princess Anne's dress in 1973 was very modest looking.. minus the flyaway cuffs... Takes notes Kelly..

Edited by sATL
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Just think, Harry and Megan will have a several hundred fewer people at the church than a typical Bates affair. That's insane. 

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3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Just think, Harry and Megan will have a several hundred fewer people at the church than a typical Bates affair. That's insane. 

Lulz! Do you think Harry and Megan's guests will be limited to a single Tostito with half a teaspoon of dip and a Dixie cup of powdered lemonade? I'm picturing the caterers in London slicing tea sandwiches into eighths and rationing the jam like it's WW2. 

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6 hours ago, sATL said:

I wonder if Kelly is getting up at 0400 EST on Satuday to watch the Royal Wedding to get tips for the next Bates girlie , with her 100 pg composition book in hand..

Actually Princess Anne's dress in 1973 was very modest looking.. minus the flyaway cuffs... Takes notes Kelly..

 

 

6 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Just think, Harry and Megan will have a several hundred fewer people at the church than a typical Bates affair. That's insane. 

 

3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Lulz! Do you think Harry and Megan's guests will be limited to a single Tostito with half a teaspoon of dip and a Dixie cup of powdered lemonade? I'm picturing the caterers in London slicing tea sandwiches into eighths and rationing the jam like it's WW2. 

I love you all! You made me laugh SO hard...because it’s all true!

I wonder if Kelly Jo will implement the “two receptions bit” for Carlin, Josie & Katie? 

God help us all if the next slew of weddings start earlier in the day so her girls can have horse & carriage ride post-ceremony! 

Full disclosure: I’m a “Suits” fan. Still watch it, no matter how crazy it gets.

Is anyone else rubbed the wrong way by Meghan Markle or not a fan? All those “Me?!?! You’re all here to see me?!” facial expressions seem so fake. I want her to brush her hair & learn that messy buns are not for public outings. 

I can’t marry Harry myself (it’s an unspoken rule of the Ginger Squad that two redheads don’t ever get together), but I’m really, really bummed about his choice. I know he’s not an angel, but there’s something wonky going on with her. Does she have embarrassing photos of him that she is using against him or something?

Edited by Bridget
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No, I don't care much for Megan. I think she's a social climber. Harry looks totally smitten, while she always has a smug, cat who ate the canary look on her face. FWIW, I thought the wedding was tacky. That preacher was ridiculous , her dress didn't fit and the hair was a mess. What a disaster. Kate wasn't even paying attention during the vows, lol. The mother of the bride looked nice, but that's about it.

Edited by BitterApple
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19 hours ago, Bridget said:

 

 

I wonder if Kelly Jo will implement the “two receptions bit” for Carlin, Josie & Katie? 

 

Well, the Duggars have been doing this forever.  One reception in the parking lot of the church, then one at the house.

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Bet you we'll see a horse drawn carriage at Carlin or Josie's wedding. Erin and Chad had one for their engagement but having seen it so recently, guarantee a showboat like Carlin will want one.

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16 hours ago, BitterApple said:

No, I don't care much for Megan. I think she's a social climber. Harry looks totally smitten, while she always has a smug, cat who ate the canary look on her face. FWIW, I thought the wedding was tacky. That preacher was ridiculous , her dress didn't fit and the hair was a mess. What a disaster. Kate wasn't even paying attention during the vows, lol. The mother of the bride looked nice, but that's about it.

To be fair I don't think you could marry into royalty if you weren't a bit of a social climber.  I just don't think any normal person could deal with the baggage that surrounds your spouse being a royal. I mean what with protocol, press and a gazillion rules for living! 

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Wow. Josie and Kelton look about 12 years old, yet still come across about a thousand times more mature than the newlyweds, and about a zillion times more mature than Carlin and Evan. 

Definitely sad to hear about Kelton's mom. Fundie women dying in childbirth is a possibility that is often mentioned, but I know no one rejoices when it actually happens. I want to say something about hoping Kelton and Josie won't be against some sort of birth control if necessary down the road without sounding like a total asshole here, and am struggling a bit. But I can't be the only one thinking it. 

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The honeymoon scenes just seemed so awkward.  Maybe Tori is just uncomfortable on camera, but she didn't look very happy to me.  There were a couple of times when I think she wanted Bobby to be more demonstrative but he wasn't.  At one point he said he kept waiting for someone to come and basically tell them they were doing something wrong.  She said that it is difficult to not be able to do anything, very little touching, etc. and then, BOOM - you are married and can do anything you want.  How can anyone think this is a good thing?

I also think the sadness and missing the person who has gotten married is a little over the top.  I don't get why Kelly goes over and decorates the apartment while couple is on honeymoon.  Doesn't she have quite a few younger children at home that need her?  Maybe I am psychoanalyzing this too much, but I get the feeling there is something missing in her own life that she is living vicariously through the ones getting married, or these weddings are creating a diversion from her boring life.

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I haven't had a chance to watch the episode yet, but I'm not surprised to read Tori's honeymoon is all kinds of awkward. I swear part of the reason these people rush to get pregnant is because a baby is a convenient distraction from the fact that they barely know each other and aren't comfortable being alone for long periods of time.

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I did find a contradiction: During the Thanksgiving episode that re-aired a couple of weeks ago,  Gil said he put the kibosh on Josie/Kelton. Now they claim it was HER idea?  I'm not buying that; I'm sure that was all Gil. 

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I think that decorating the newlywed's apartment is just for the sake of the plot.  What else do they have besides courtship, weddings, babies, decorating, and budget shopping?

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8 hours ago, Baseballcandy said:

I missed the part about Kelton's mom.  Did she die while having him?

 

8 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

His youngest sister. 

C-sect or natural birth ?

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I don't think they ever said anything other than it was in childbirth. There are five kids total.

I did notice that Kelton's dad wears a wedding ring. Some do wear their rings after they've been widowed. However, I wonder if Kelton's dad has since remarried, and they're keeping the wife on the down low because she doesn't fit into the plot.

Edited by Sew Sumi
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So I did some Internet sleuthing and found this news story done shortly after Kristy's death. She was 39 and they were living in South Carolina at the time. Kelton's dad was "working out of the house" and claimed the "details were too painful to talk about" which leads me to believe no insurance and a botched home birth. Pure speculation of course, but given what we know about these people, not a huge leap to conclusion.

https://youtu.be/e-uOGiQ_t80

Edited by BitterApple
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9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I did find a contradiction: During the Thanksgiving episode that re-aired a couple of weeks ago,  Gil said he put the kibosh on Josie/Kelton. Now they claim it was HER idea?  I'm not buying that; I'm sure that was all Gil. 

Neither do I. We've seen her panicking that Brandon wasn't going to propose and she panicked with Bobby too.  If it was up to her both couples would probably be married by now. 

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Maybe it's me, but I don't get all the complaining about not being ABLE to kiss before marriage. Aren't these the couple's decisions? If they wanted to kiss before marriage why didn't they? Since kissing is not considered 'a sin' even to these people, why go through all that frustration? They contradict themselves IMO or they are bad at keeping the real truth about who's calling the 'courting shots'.

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2 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Maybe it's me, but I don't get all the complaining about not being ABLE to kiss before marriage. Aren't these the couple's decisions? If they wanted to kiss before marriage why didn't they? Since kissing is not considered 'a sin' even to these people, why go through all that frustration? They contradict themselves IMO or they are bad at keeping the real truth about who's calling the 'courting shots'.

I think its the last one. Their really bad at keeping the real truth about who's calling the shots. Gil and Kelly love to claim the couples make the decisions but its really their no different. Its very much like how say daughters "volunteer" to cook for the entire family, teach their siblings or potty train them. The couples "make" their own decisions. 

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It struck me when Josie and Kelton were standing under that covered bridge and he was asking to formally court her, that his dad and her parents were standing in the near distance watching everything, like they are in junior high.  At least they hugged each other, as opposed to the Duggars who can only do the side hug thing.  It really is a totally different culture - I mean, the fact that they can NEVER be alone with their intended is just so weird!

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Am I the only one who thought it was both hilarious and alarming that an alleged future elementary school teacher didn’t know the difference between a sea lion and a sea otter?

I have no words.

(Other than that it makes her getting pregnant overnight and not “teaching” this fall about 10,000 times much more palatable for me.)

Edited by Bridget
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