S00.E154: Twice Upon a Time

[benteen]

Rewatching some of the episode recently, it's still difficult to make out what Jodie said at the end.  I know what she said but the accent really drowned out the words.  Also, while I loved the music in the scene, 12's final speech was still pretty forgettable, repetitive and self-indulgent.

[rur]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

 Also, while I loved the music in the scene, 12's final speech was still pretty forgettable, repetitive and self-indulgent.

I can forgive self-indulgent; after all, the doctor spent two seasons having to indulge a companion.

Edited January 11, 2018 by rur

[whoknowswho]

Well, took me several weeks to see it, but I finally got to see it.   I was quite surprised by my reaction. Peter Capaldi's tenure has not been my favorite, but like many people, a lot of it was dislike of "the Most Special of Special Snowflakes to ever be Snow flaked" -- Clara. I really disliked her character, because she was bossy and officious. Her best episode was as Oswin/Souffle Girl with Matt Smith. All her worst were with Peter Capaldi-- Robot of Sherwood notwithstanding, because for some reason, I liked that one episode. It was silly and fun. 

Last season, I loved Bill and Nardole, although I didn't love some of the episodes and the in your face "I'm not attracted to you because you're old and I'm a lesbian" foolishness. But it was Moffatt, if he couldn't have a pretty 20 something girl pining for the Doctor, well then, let's just make her gay. Because...reasons.

I HATED poor old Walder Frey's sexist lines, but I did like him as 1.  And I bawled during the Christmas Truce. My grandfather fought and was wounded in the Great War, and his brothers as well. I didn't care much for the rest of the story, and I didn't care much for the angsty speech Capaldi did at the end. 

Here's my point, took awhile to get there--In both his last real showof the regular season--his last episode, and this Christmas regeneration special--he made a speech about being "Kind", and I wondered--at what point has Capaldi's 12 EVER been kind? Kind is not a word I would ever use to describe 12. Funny, sarcastic, cranky, quirky, are words I would use to describe him, but "kind" is not one of them. He was horrible to Danny Pink, he was often insufferable with Clara (as was she with him), he was tolerable to Bill and Nardole, but never what I would call kind to them. So it made his angsty preregeneration speech just wrong in my opinion.  Does he think in all his tenure as the 12th Doctor, that he has been kind to the human race? The Doctor is like my brilliant but cranky uncle, only he has a Tardis.

I did love him though, I liked this past season the best, as he was softened a lot. I will always remember when The Doctor was him. :) 

And for the 13th Doctor, I hope the Tardis tosses her and she stays tossed, I dislike Jodie in Broadchurch, and I HATE the fact that they have turned the Doctor into a woman, especially so soon after turning the Master into Missy. I'll skip her tenure entirely.

Edited January 11, 2018 by whoknowswho
forgot stuff...

[call me ishmael]

22 hours ago, starri said:

I don't think anything after the regeneration was anything to do with Moffat.  I had the impression from a comment that the director made that Jodie Whittaker and Capaldi weren't on set at the same time.  I believe he said that he didn't even know who was going to be playing 13.  So I think the scenes of her speaking and then getting tossed out of the TARDIS were an insert after the main episode had wrapped.  Capaldi filmed his eyebrow cameo in "The Day of the Doctor" months after the rest of the episode was filmed.

I’m not sure why that shows that it didn’t have anything to do with Moffat.  He was the showrunner and co-writer on the episode.  Which actor was on the set at which time doesn’t seem relevant to me.

Edited January 11, 2018 by call me ishmael
Autocorrect doesn’t always help

[SVNBob]

6 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I’m not sure why that shows that it didn’t have anything to do with Moffat.  He was the showrunner and co-writer on the episode.  Which actor was on the set at which time doesn’t seem relevant to me.

When RTD handed over to Moffat for the change from Tennant to Smith, RTD had nothing to do with the post-regeneration scene.  He wrote up to "I don't want to go..." and the full-body glow on Ten.  But that was it.  As soon as the glow faded onto Eleven, Moffat took control.   All the "Still not ginger" bits were the Moff's alone.

Since this is the same kind of transition (both Doctor and showrunner), we're assuming the same thing happened.  Moffat wrote the "be kind" speech and started the glow on Twelve.  But Chibnall wrote the scene with Thirteen, starting both their tenures.

[Bruinsfan]

On 1/5/2018 at 0:53 AM, Lantern7 said:

I'd like to see a new "Five Doctors" story with Thirteen taking lead among the "modern" Doctors, but since Eccleston would never go for it (a decision I can understand and respect), that might be confined to licensed comics.

It'd be a nice callback if they used deleted scenes of the unavailable Doctor to come up with some reason for his absence.

 

On 1/11/2018 at 1:49 PM, whoknowswho said:

Here's my point, took awhile to get there--In both his last real showof the regular season--his last episode, and this Christmas regeneration special--he made a speech about being "Kind", and I wondered--at what point has Capaldi's 12 EVER been kind?

To River Song, to Missy, to Grant, and to young Davros, for starters. He hasn't been all that kind to his own traveling companions, but I can see how a couple of years with Clara could get one in the habit of crankiness on that front.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Bruinsfan

[wayne67]

Well that was typically mediocre. Let's hope the new Doctor under a new show runner will be better than the last one. 

5 seconds of Clara was enough to irritate me, "stupid old man" is not a funny hello. Why won't she just go away forever? Can't anyone just stay dead on this stupid show ? *sigh*

The moment when Capaldi realized that the Testimony didn't have an evil plan was amusing because it showed how much the show flails without a proper antagonist or threat to deal with. 

[DanaK]

On watching this and rewatching it, I see no explanation for what changed 12’s mind about regenerating. He went from talking to Bill and Nardole about wanting to finally rest and life being an endless battlefield to being in the Tardis and being ready and giving a speech of hope to his next incarnation

[HauntedBathroom]

Explaining to One about how important it was that he went on and did all of the things that needed to be done made Twelve realise that he needed to keep on doing them himself.

[DanaK]

10 minutes ago, HauntedBathroom said:

Explaining to One about how important it was that he went on and did all of the things that needed to be done made Twelve realise that he needed to keep on doing them himself.

But he then talked to “Bill” and “Nardole” and seemed to still be really down about continuing on

[rur]

On 1/8/2019 at 3:54 PM, DanaK said:

On watching this and … it, I see no explanation for what changed 12’s mind about regenerating. He went from talking to Bill and Nardole about wanting to finally rest and life being an endless battlefield to being in the Tardis and being ready and giving a speech of hope to his next incarnation

 

22 hours ago, HauntedBathroom said:

Explaining to One about how important it was that he went on and did all of the things that needed to be done made Twelve realise that he needed to keep on doing them himself.

 

22 hours ago, DanaK said:

But he then talked to “Bill” and “Nardole” and seemed to still be really down about continuing on

Um, cue the orchestra for the Doctor's other theme song --

" ... To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star

This is my quest, to follow that star
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far
To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march
Into hell for a heavenly cause

And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lay peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest ..."