Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Miss Dee]

I'm not really spoiled on the Flash, just what I get in this thread, but I would bet real money Iris' powers are a temporary side effect of being pregnant with a metahuman, probably a speedster based on that episode title.

Which I personally find intriguing, to be honest. I don't think I've seen the topic of having amazing abilities but also a hard end-date for them in a superhero story before. If the writers can actually make the story about Iris - long shot, I know - I think it has the potential to be really interesting.

ETA: Hey, I can like my own posts if I want! This new site is bitchin'!

Edited January 26, 2018 by Miss Dee

[Trini]

Now all we need is Felicity to wield a bow!

[Trini]

1 minute ago, Miss Dee said:

I'm not really spoiled on the Flash, just what I get in this thread, but I would bet real money Iris' powers are a temporary side effect of being pregnant with a metahuman, probably a speedster based on that episode title.

Which I personally find intriguing, to be honest. I don't think I've seen the topic of having amazing abilities but also a hard end-date for them in a superhero story before. If the writers can actually make the story about Iris - long shot, I know - I think it has the potential to be really interesting.

There have been 'power transfer to the love interest for an episode' stories on Lois & Clark and Smallville (among other shows). I'm hoping that it's actually Iris from another Earth.

[ruby24]

4 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I'm not really spoiled on the Flash, just what I get in this thread, but I would bet real money Iris' powers are a temporary side effect of being pregnant with a metahuman, probably a speedster based on that episode title.

I see a lot of people seem to think this...but isn't there an episode coming up where Cecile has pregnancy powers too? Would they do the same thing just a few episodes later? I guess it could just be the surprise of oh look, Iris is also pregnant. 

But I think the upcoming reveal of the mystery girl who's probably their daughter also has them thinking that, so I guess it's possible. If Iris is pregnant this early though, wouldn't she be due to give birth in the summer? There's no way they wouldn't want that to happen on the actual show.

[Featherhat]

I really hope Iris isn't pregnant this early. There's no need to rush, we know they have kids and they and Bart etc can be used via time travel etc. The show will run for several more seasons and if she's pregnant now then she'll only have mommy plots for years. Plus the storyline with Cecile would make Iris getting powers via pregnancy right now redundant. Who knows though, maybe being a mother is the only thing they can think of to do with her, which would be a shame.

[WindofChange]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

If Iris is pregnant this early though, wouldn't she be due to give birth in the summer? There's no way they wouldn't want that to happen on the actual show.

Episode 16 airs first week of March which would mean she would be giving birth most likely in October-December especially if she finds out in episode 16. That is if they're going this route for her (which imo would be terrible for her character but when does Flash ever do anything good for her... but that's neither here or there)

[ruby24]

7 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Episode 16 airs first week of March which would mean she would be giving birth most likely in October-December especially if she finds out in episode 16. That is if they're going this route for her (which imo would be terrible for her character but when does Flash ever do anything good for her... but that's neither here or there)

Hmm. Yeah, I guess that would be timing it about right then. 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, ruby24 said:

...but isn't there an episode coming up where Cecile has pregnancy powers too?

How does this happen? Do either Cecile or Joe have any powers? If not, which I assume is the case, why would this pregnancy give Cecile powers? Why does reading about The Flash always leave me confused?

[Starfish35]

20 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Episode 16 airs first week of March which would mean she would be giving birth most likely in October-December especially if she finds out in episode 16. That is if they're going this route for her (which imo would be terrible for her character but when does Flash ever do anything good for her... but that's neither here or there)

Having her give birth early in the season would also keep them from having months of having to make Candace look pregnant.

[WindofChange]

16 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Having her give birth early in the season would also keep them from having months of having to make Candace look pregnant.

Pretty much! It's what Arrow did with Lyla

[Primal Slayer]

27 minutes ago, bijoux said:

How does this happen? Do either Cecile or Joe have any powers? If not, which I assume is the case, why would this pregnancy give Cecile powers? Why does reading about The Flash always leave me confused?

I speculate that when the wave hit, it basically created the meta-gene with a lot of people getting hit. Some got actual powers that manifested while others didnt. 

[tennisgurl]

I randomly saw a bit of Suicide Squad early today, and it reminded me how salty I still am that the higher ups at DC insisted that Arrow kill off Deadshot (and Amanda Waller, and got rid of Slade) all in service of their crappy movie series. Alright, the Arrow version of Amanda Waller wasn't a great one, and Slade could come back if/when the DCEU sees something shiny again and forgets about us, but it sucks how much stuff we cant have here because of their insistence on making an endless stream of mediocre movies that clearly dont understand the characters or universe in the way that the Arrowverse writers do.* It creates a pretty hostile environment as well, I would imagine, both in fandom, and with the TV people basically being told they are not as important, despite their hard work. Especially with Deadshot, who was an awesome character, especially after we found out the truth about Andy and HIVE, and the Suicide Squad, which also still has tons of potential, but we dont get before of the aforementioned mediocrity. I am still waiting for it to turn out he was only mostly dead one of these days. 

*Yeah, I complain about this franchise a lot, and lord knows its not perfect, but they have built a successful series of TV shows with a wide variety of likable characters and interesting superhero stories that interconnect in ways that basically make sense, in ways that the movies have yet to do. Wonder Woman was awesome, but they can only ride that for so long. 

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It creates a pretty hostile environment as well, I would imagine, both in fandom, and with the TV people basically being told they are not as important, despite their hard work.

Still one of the many many reasons why I want that Arrow tell-all book.

[Primal Slayer]

While I am totally anti-embargo, the Arrowverse doesn't understand half the characters they adapt and I still dont believe MG that they had to kill Deadshot and Amanda. Floyd even showed up The Flash on E2 afterwards. 

And the Arrowverse showrunners have created a lot divide within the fandom, the DCEU is pretty onpar with the Arrowverse imo.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Primal Slayer

[JamieLynn832002]

34 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I speculate that when the wave hit, it basically created the meta-gene with a lot of people getting hit. Some got actual powers that manifested while others didnt. 

I could also see a lot of people ending up with minor powers that they never noticed. For example, would Cisco have ever discovered his Vibe powers if Barry had never changed the timeline? 

[tennisgurl]

9 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

While I am totally anti-embargo, the Arrowverse doesn't understand half the characters they adapt and I still dont believe MG that they had to kill Deadshot and Amanda. Floyd even showed up The Flash on E2 afterwards. 

 

Well, Floyd was only in one episode, and he wasn't technically Deadshot, so that didn't exactly count. And while they dont really "get" all of their characters, they do at least understand why people like superhero things than the DCEU, in my opinion. 

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

Well, Floyd was only in one episode, and he wasn't technically Deadshot, so that didn't exactly count. And while they dont really "get" all of their characters, they do at least understand why people like superhero things than the DCEU, in my opinion. 

The DCEU spent majority of its life being spearheaded by 1 guy which was their major problem. Snyder had some great and unique ideas but he is not a full out storyteller. It'd be like if MG spearheaded majority of the Arrowverse. 

[Primal Slayer]

4.16 - Run Iris, run

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I speculate that when the wave hit, it basically created the meta-gene with a lot of people getting hit. Some got actual powers that manifested while others didnt. 

Do Joe and Cecile really need a metahuman baby?  Joe didn't do such a good job with the ones he raised, I don't want to see what he'd do with a metahuman.

It feels like this show keeps creating metahumans because it's a way to drive the same story again but with a different twist.

On 1/25/2018 at 2:20 PM, BkWurm1 said:

I’ve enjoyed James this year.  I did not enjoy him last year.  So to me, that means he’s had a good story this year.  J’onn is always underserved but I’ve liked him in every year so while I’m happy to hope for more, I have no huge complaints about him.  I’m happy to have Winn getting to interact with more than justvJimmy and his in my opinion painfully awful Guardian arc.   Last year Winn also had his alien girlfriend and may be getting less attention this year but it’s a large cast and that kind of stuff ebbs and flows with different characters getting more prominence in different years.   I’m not having a problem with how the stories are being handled this year.  So yeah, I think they are being told better than last year when I did have problems with the stories being told.   

That's going to be my new metric for "better writing" -- whether I'm enjoying the story.  I can not like a character but still like the story being told about him (s1 Wells) and be happy; but I've realized that even if I like a character, if i don't enjoy the story about him (s2 James), I'm not going to enjoy the show.  Insight!

[Miss Dee]

So I just saw Thor: Ragnarok. While I thought the beginning was fine and the end kicked ass, the middle was draggy. But I think I could have handled the fact the prison was a big old diversionary plot tactic way more egregious than anything in The Last Jedi. I hated how they turned Thor into Tony-light, a snarky wiseass with shades of douchebaggery. That's not Thor's character as we've seen in the movies (maybe it's dead on to the comics, I don't know). And I hated how Banner was a whiny crybaby on the alien planet; that's not in character for him. Not to mention that becoming the Hulk forever is pretty much his worse nightmare - and they just introduced it for a few laughs! He turned into Hulk at the end...did he ever change back? I didn't see it. Does that mean he'll never be Bruce Banner again? Maybe, I don't know, let us know what happened there before ending the damn movie???

Yeah, I was not a fan of this movie. If this is the level of storytelling I can expect for Infinity War: yikes.

It got better with the fight in Asgard, as Thor was more like himself with the gravitas I associate with him. I don't mind Thor being funny - he cracked me up in The Avengers - but he's not a wisecracking kind of funny, or a silly kind of funny. I know Chris Hemsworth can do it; that's not the point. It was like someone watched him in Ghostbusters and went "That! Make Ragnarok more like that!"

Edited January 27, 2018 by Miss Dee

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

So I just saw Thor: Ragnarok. While I thought the beginning was fine and the end kicked ass, the middle was draggy. But I think I could have handled the fact the prison was a big old diversionary plot tactic way more egregious than anything in The Last Jedi. I hated how they turned Thor into Tony-light, a snarky wiseass with shades of douchebaggery. That's not Thor's character as we've seen in the movies (maybe it's dead on to the comics, I don't know). And I hated how Banner was a whiny crybaby on the alien planet; that's not in character for him. Not to mention that becoming the Hulk forever is pretty much his worse nightmare - and they just introduced it for a few laughs! He turned into Hulk at the end...did he ever change back? I didn't see it. Does that mean he'll never be Bruce Banner again? Maybe, I don't know, let us know what happened there before ending the damn movie???

Yeah, I was not a fan of this movie. If this is the level of storytelling I can expect for Infinity War: yikes.

It got better with the fight in Asgard, as Thor was more like himself with the gravitas I associate with him. I don't mind Thor being funny - he cracked me up in The Avengers - but he's not a wisecracking kind of funny, or a silly kind of funny. I know Chris Hemsworth can do it; that's not the point. It was like someone watched him in Ghostbusters and went "That! Make Ragnarok more like that!"

 

Interesting to read your take.  I too just saw Thor Ragnorok, like two days ago, but I had the opposite reaction and loved it to pieces. 

And the Thor that we saw seemed to me to be the Thor that we'd seen in the first movie when he'd been a bit full of himself as heir to the throne but also one of the group enjoying his life, eating, drinking and making merry.  He was not acting as much like we'd become accustomed to him in other movies, but despite him trying to get back to his world to save everyone, I felt that Thor was actually more at ease in his current circumstances and what was being thrown at him this time around than he had when we'd seen him on Earth when he was so disillusioned and sad the first time and so angry and hurt by Loki during the Avengers.  So while I don't disagree we were seeing a different side of him, I thought it still felt in character.  He's grown so much from who he was in the first movie, he's not as above it all any more nor as naive or thrown by new things.  He seemed more comfortable in his skin but also more accepting of his own flaws.  (Cleary he's aware of them since Jane dumped him.)  

So for those reasons, I was able to enjoy the characterization in this movie.  Cause I think without the weight of the world and his god complex, this would be who he is.  At this point, he's had the starch taken out of him and while he really did still have the weight of the world on his shoulders, he was more accustom to that now so until he was in the middle of the actual fight, he was pretty relaxed about everything even while still focused on his mission.   

As for Bruce, I didn't see him so much as whining just more than a bit freaked out to have lost that much time.  Plus when you are with a friend, it's always easier to have a meltdown than if you are on your own and have to suck it up.  As for him being afraid he'd not come back again if he turned into Hulk, I don't think there was anything that said that was fact, just Bruce's fears and when the time came, he had to put his fears aside. 

Now, they could be gearing up to make Hulk a permanently CGI character.  That way they'd never have to worry about the actor aging but I think that's too soon to assume has happened.    (I hope)

I really don't think that this movie, which really was more slapstick than anything we'd seen before, will be the template for the Infinity Wars.  I'm sure some other movie genre will drive that one. than 

Edited January 27, 2018 by BkWurm1

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Plus when you are with a friend, it's always easier to have a meltdown than if you are on your own and have to suck it up. 

Thor: “He’s a friend from work!” Grinning 

Hulk: “Hulk SMASH!!” ( or its equivalent)

Me: Rur-roh! ??????????

[BkWurm1]

I saw this section as not so much Tony Stark like but just open and really childlike pleasure in finding a familiar face.  And that also felt very Thor-like to me.  

3 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thor: “He’s a friend from work!” Grinning 

Hulk: “Hulk SMASH!!” ( or its equivalent)

Me: Rur-roh! ??????????

I also adored

Spoiler

Loki's glee in watching it happen. 

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

I also adored

  Reveal hidden contents

Loki's glee in watching it happen. 

 

Agree! Me and my brother and the entire theater were ??????? when that happened!

[Miss Dee]

Maybe it was just the mood I was in, I don't know. I just felt the entire middle of the movie dragged, and Thor and Bruce didn't feel at all like the same characters. I honestly didn't mind a more humorous take, I just felt it was the wrong sort of humor for these two characters in particular; it was jarring. Laughing at Thor's overbearing sense of gravitas feels right for his character. This time it was like the writers secretly wished they could write for Tony Stark.

At least on the prison planet; I loved the parts of the movie on Earth and Asgard. The humor for Thor felt more natural to his character in those places. And it was really the mingling in the prison planet city where I felt it was most off, but that was enough to spoil that entire section for me.

[tv echo]

Cancellation Watch: The Arrow-verse is Losing Steam
By johnnyjay | January 26, 2018
http://www.cancelledscifi.com/2018/01/26/cancellation-watch-the-arrow-verse-is-losing-steam/

Quote

Ratings Results of Interest: All three of The CW’s Arrow-verse shows that aired this week slipped in the ratings and all are currently at series low levels. On Monday, Supergirl slipped to a 0.5 rating based on same day viewing in the 18-49 demographic with 2.1 million total viewers. On Tuesday, The Flash slowed down to a 0.7 rating with 2.1 million total viewers. And on Thursday, Arrow dropped to a 0.4 score with 1.4 million total viewers. Black Lightning, which is not considered part of the Arrow-verse, also dropped in its second week to a 0.6 rating with 1.9 million total viewers (Legends of Tomorrow is on hiatus until February). Of course, none of these shows are in danger of cancellation and I expect a blanket renewal announcement from the network, likely within the next month. But the superhero entries are definitely not drawing viewership to the network like they once were, and I would not be surprised to see The CW making moves to shift away from that genre within a couple of seasons. I will be looking at that in more detail in a coming post.

Edited January 27, 2018 by tv echo

[WindofChange]

You know I was thinking about Iris probably being pregnant... I personally don't think Barry/Iris are ready for that yet based on what I've seen. Iris hasn't gotten a chance to start her career, Barry is still a kid at heart and still making a lot of personal mistakes, I feel like they as a couple still need to sort out a few issues in their relationship that wasn't solved in 402, etc.

And then I wondered whether Oliver/Felicity are there yet? 

I think maybe not this season as they're still figuring out how to work at being parents to William, but I think next season as long as they keep this solid steady momentum, they will be ready to have kids of their own. 

What do you guys think?

[Sakura12]

What career? Iris doesn't have a job. They dropped her journalism job because they don't care to write it for her.  Most people aren't ready for kids when they have them. I just don't think these shows need them. Writing for babies and kids is something most shows suck at. That's why they always have them magically grow older, no one wants to deal with kids. 

If they have their future daughter as an adult they should just use her for storytelling purposes. 

[way2interested]

I think that for WestAllen that they shouldn't have kids just yet but instead find out that they will have kids (even worse, twins! Coming from an actual twin here). It fits more with how they're relationship stuff has been progressing (they found out they were destined to marry way before they actually got married). Then they can go through their typical story about whether to lean into that destiny or not again just like with their marriage. Whether or not I like it is moot, but I think it makes more sense to the story and to how WestAllen has been written, plus it holds them off from kids a little while longer.

For Olicity I think it would be inevitable that the series would end with them having a kid. However, similar to WestAllen, I think it can still tie into how their story has been written. With regards to Olicity, a lot of the pushes and pulls of their relationship have been circumstantial, not like destiny like WestAllen, but a lot of reactionary stuff that they muddle through and grow stronger at the end (even if they are getting through being parents now it was still something dropped on to them). To really the over Oliver and Felicity's story regarding them and their family and their work life, I think it would be interesting if they actually had it be an active choice for them to have a kid to show their ultimate push to have it all and get through it together. Although, if like WestAllen, we are going through patterns, then that could also mean that an unexpected pregnancy would probably happen as another reactionary but ultimately positive step in their relationship. Whichever is moot right now, it's just the patterns I'm going by.

[WindofChange]

2 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

What career? Iris doesn't have a job. They dropped her journalism job because they don't care to write it for her.  Most people aren't ready for kids when they have them. I just don't think these shows need them. Writing for babies and kids is something most shows suck at. That's why they always have them magically grow older, no one wants to deal with kids. 

 

She doesn't, that's why I said "hasn't gotten a chance to start her career".

Also there are some couples who are better equipped at having a baby than others. That's what I meant by being ready. Some people tend to be at a better position for having kids than others (physically, mentally, and emotionally).

[Primal Slayer]

Leave the kids for fanfics or the series finale. We dont need either couple to have a kid and then spend most of their time in the lair or Star Labs. 

[Angel12d]

As much as I'm enjoying Olicity figuring out how to be parents to William, I'd prefer any Olicity babies to happen near the end of the show. If that is even part of their plan, IDK. Though part of me does need to see Oliver cradle his baby for the first time, I'm sorry, I can't help it. ?

[Hiveminder]

26 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

She doesn't, that's why I said "hasn't gotten a chance to start her career".

Also there are some couples who are better equipped at having a baby than others. That's what I meant by being ready. Some people tend to be at a better position for having kids than others (physically, mentally, and emotionally).

She did have a chance, the writers just didn’t let her take it?. 

 

I’m generally more in favor of kids on shows than most people, and I need to see Oliver holding his newborn child, but I’d be satisfied with it happening in the back half of the final season. If it happens I’m betting on a surprise pregnancy (possibly involving the good ol’ woman got sick and didn’t realize antibiotics will screw up her birth control trope, but hopefully not), but I would love it if it was a conscious decision on their parts or at least an agreement that they won’t try to prevent a pregnancy and whatever happens happens. 

[quarks]

50 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Writing for babies and kids is something most shows suck at. That's why they always have them magically grow older, no one wants to deal with kids. 

 

I think most shows don't have a problem writing for babies and small kids - you can see this with animated shows/films. The issue is filming babies and small kids, which is frequently a nightmare for everyone involved, thus why most shows try to avoid it. 

[WindofChange]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Leave the kids for fanfics or the series finale. We dont need either couple to have a kid and then spend most of their time in the lair or Star Labs. 

I definitely agree. I don't want kids unless it's the final season. But that's not really what I was asking about. I'm just curious whether people think WA or OF are ready for kids. It's not really the same

42 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I’m generally more in favor of kids on shows than most people, and I need to see Oliver holding his newborn child, but I’d be satisfied with it happening in the back half of the final season.

I'm 100% in agreement with you here. I'd love to see Oliver hold his own newborn child only because it'd be such a beautiful bookend to a complicated story with a torturous beginning

[BunsenBurner]

Didn’t MG say they might do flash forwards?  Let Oliver and Felicity have one of those. That’s all I need. 

[Hiveminder]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

I definitely agree. I don't want kids unless it's the final season. But that's not really what I was asking about. I'm just curious whether people think WA or OF are ready for kids. It's not really the same

I'm 100% in agreement with you here. I'd love to see Oliver hold his own newborn child only because it'd be such a beautiful bookend to a complicated story with a torturous beginning

I definitely think Olicity are mostly ready. I mean, if it happened now, they'd be okay, but they probably wouldn't mind a little more time to enjoy being married and settle in to that. Maybe a year or two. 

I haven't watched The Flash regularly since season one and not at all this season except for the crossover, but from what I've seen Westallen are not ready. Maybe it's GG's face, but I just can't see him as a full adult. 

Can you imagine the heart eyes SA  would break out for a baby? They might have to wait until the final season for an olicitot because I think half their viewership might squee themselves to death. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Hiveminder

[Angel12d]

I don't think O/F are ready for a baby yet but it can't be too long until they are? They're already married, they're a family, they're raising a son together. Thinking about expanding their family would be the next step/thought, I'd imagine. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I want the conversation first. Like, they got engaged, broke up, got married but never had a "do you want kids" talk. I get this is Arrow, which never really considers these types of real-life convos unless they are plot related but c'mon! Oliver and Felicity are talking about parenting. You'd think they'd bring up possible Olicitots next. I'm perfectly fine with them saying they want to wait, but have the conversation, please. 

[tv echo]

I don't recall if I previously posted Alan Sepinwall's review of the crossover, so here it is...

Boy, The ‘Crisis On Earth-X’ Crossover Of The CW Superhero Shows Was Fun
ALAN SEPINWALL   November 28, 2017
http://uproxx.com/sepinwall/crisis-on-earth-x-recap-supergirl-arrow-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-review/

Quote

A review of the CW’s annual crossover between Supergirl, Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow coming up just as soon as my secret identity is my first name with a “the” in front of it…
*  *  *
“Crisis On Earth-X,” on the other hand, was everything a fan could have hoped for, whether they watch all four shows, only one or two, or are just more general DC/superhero fans tuning in out of curiosity(*). It corrected nearly every flaw of “Invasion!” and was packed with memorable moments, big and small.

(*) Peak TV, plus the increasing familiarity of these shows and their styles, has pushed all of them down to intermittent viewing at best for me these days. (Surprisingly, Legends is the one I catch most often, because it’s the most light-hearted and because it’s much less serialized than the others, and thus easier to dip into and out of.) As a comics reader, I mostly hate company-wide crossovers these days because they interfere with ongoing stories in individual series I enjoy, but with the TV versions, it’s the opposite: an easy excuse for me to come back and sample them all at the same time. (For that matter, last year’s crossover is the only reason I gave Legends another chance. So what I’m saying is, crossovers work!)
*  *  *
A parallel Earth where the Nazis won World War II(*), on the other hand, feels both sadly timely given how public and unapologetic white supremacy has become in America over the last few years, and much more personal to all the heroes involved, whether they had evil doppelgangers, were Jewish, queer, non-white, or simply horrified by a world in which these monstrous racial ideals were dominant. In any age, watching superheroes beat up Nazis (going all the way back to the cover of the first Captain America comic) feels satisfying; in this one, it was particularly cathartic. (Felicity to the bad Oliver: “My grandparents didn’t survive the Holocaust so the world could be ruled by Nazis.”)
*  *  *
(*) One of the event’s few out-and-out groaners was Barry simply letting Thawne run away at the end. There’s a wide range of options in between “I won’t kill anyone, not even the superpowered serial killer who murdered my mother, and whom I’ve barely defeated in the past” and “just go away and I’ll deal with you later, after you’ve had a chance to hurt many more people.”
*  *  *
4. It felt big.

I’m not just talking about the image of a dozen-plus superheroes marching (or flying) together to face the Nazi invaders, nor that impressive oner of everyone’s powers in action under the overpass, but simply the sense that the stakes were so much bigger than what you generally get on the individual shows, or even in “Invasion!” A classic crossover has casualties, and we got a big one here in the death of Martin Stein (whose funeral reminded us of how many lives he’d touched across the different series; Caitlin’s “Tell Ronnie I miss him” hit the hardest). It ideally introduces a memorable new character, which we got in Russell Tovey as The Ray, an Earth-1 expatriate fighting Nazis and dating Leo Snart. And it has huge moments that will reverberate in the ongoing series after. Not only is Jax going to have to find a new way to contribute to the Legends (most likely finding a new Firestorm partner, just like Stein found him after Ronnie died), but both Barry/Iris and Oliver/Felicity are finally married, in a sweet impromptu ceremony officiated by Diggle. (My only real disappointment of the event was the relative lack of Diggle, since the lighter side he shows in the face of superpowers is always a treat, but at least David Ramsey got that great moment at the end.)

So, yeah, this did just about everything it set out to do, and it may have tempted me into finding more time to regularly watch the individual shows, which is ultimately the main reason any crossovers exist. Well done all around.

Edited January 27, 2018 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Sepinwall used to be a big booster of Arrowin its first few seasons and then he stopped watching. It's nice to see him so positive about the crossover.

It's easier to take care of a 12 year old than an infant.  You can send him to school during the day, afterschool programs, Raisa takes care of him at night and there are summer camps. With an infant it requires a lot more care, a lot more sleepless nights, a lot more of your emotional and thinking resources.

Oliver is the mayor, Felicity is starting up her company. I don't want to tie either of the down with a baby right now.

[KenyaJ]

I don’t really want to see an Olicity baby until the end of the series, but once you’re raising a 13 year old, it’s hard to argue you wouldn’t be ready to have a baby. So I think they’re ready; I just hope there’s no baby in their immediate future. 

Having said that, even more than seeing Oliver hold an infant, I want to see his reaction to Felicity telling him that they’re expecting. If it were up to him, I think he’d have 50,000 babies with Felicity. 

ETA: I was writing my post while you were writing yours, statgirl. Didn’t want you to think my point about William was in reaction to yours! I think you make a great point about the difference between raising a teenager and an infant. I just think that given how much Oliver and Felicity are thinking about parenting these days, they’d be ready to have a baby if they wanted to. For the same reasons you mentioned, I don’t think a baby would fit into their plans just quite yet. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by KenyaJ

[SmallScreenDiva]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Sepinwall used to be a big booster of Arrowin its first few seasons and then he stopped watching. It's nice to see him so positive about the crossover.

He was one of the first legit TV critics I saw really praising OTA and Olicity. 

[Mellowyellow]

Everyone knows I am the BIGGEST advocate of Olicitots there ever was so I definitely want them to have kids in the second half of the final season. There is just too much Olicity goodness to be had from a kids plotline. I may not survive it and will need to be heavily medicated if it ever happens!

As to whether they are ready as an interesting question. I think Oliver is ready and out of the two of them he is probably the one who likely FEELS that he's ready. There is so much evidence littered in the show about Oliver and his love of domesticity, plus his breakthrough about himself last year and raising William, I definitely see him as being in a place where he wants to start popping out Olicitots.

Felicity I think probably does not want kids yet but I think she is ready for them based on how she handles William. Babies are terrors but I think she's got the mental fortitude to handle one if they were suddenly blessed with one. She seems to be very natural at the parenting thing and willing to roll with it and learn but I can't see her agreeing to deliberately planning for one though. If they go along the route of a deliberately planned Olicitot I think there would need to be some kind of revelation on Felicity's part before she can come to a place where she actively wants to try for a baby.

You can never be truly ready for kids but I want them to let Felicity have her company take off before she has Olicitots. She's been a vigilante, saved the world, worked small jobs, ran a large company. I think getting her business launched and running solidly would satisfy me that our Felicity has been allowed to do as much as she wanted career wise and can now explore the Olicitot side of life. I want her to be in a place where she's like "Yup I've done this and this and this. I want to embark on this Olicitot adventure now."

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

ETA: I was writing my post while you were writing yours, statgirl. Didn’t want you to think my point about William was in reaction to yours!

No problem!

Given Ivy Town Oliver and his "addiction" to dinner parties, I think after he finishes as being mayor and has someone else to take care of the city, he'd be a great stay-at-home dad. Here's hoping Smoak Tech/ Helix takes off and Felicity earns lots of money.

I agree that Barry and Iris haven't lived their own lives enough to start guiding someone else's.  Alex, on the other hand, is awesome as well as ready.

[Mary0360]

8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

 Writing for babies and kids is something most shows suck at. That's why they always have them magically grow older, no one wants to deal with kids. 

I think the British show Outnumbered is the only show I've seen that writes realistic entertaining kids and that's because they didnt write for them. The writers would just give the child actors prompts or scenarios and let them behave or react to that normally like a child their age would. 

[Morrigan2575]

Charmed did an excellent job with writing  kids into the story. 

One of the few shows that I really enjoyed the introduction of children

Edited January 28, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Primal Slayer]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Charmed did an excellent job with writing  kids into the story. 

One of the few shows that I really enjoyed the introduction of children

Charmed had Wyatt just sit there and be attacked by demons. The only time kids worked in Charmed was when Chris came from the future as grown up.

[Oreo2234]

Quote

I agree that Barry and Iris haven't lived their own lives enough to start guiding someone else's.  Alex, on the other hand, is awesome as well as ready.

Disagree about Alex. She's single, with a time consuming,dangerous job and she's also not that emotionally mature in some ways. 

[Primal Slayer]

11 minutes ago, Oreo2234 said:

Disagree about Alex. She's single, with a time consuming,dangerous job and she's also not that emotionally mature in some ways. 

I agree. Alex is still finding herself and needs to find out who she is and just explore herself more. Her relationship with Maggie was a whirlwind .