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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

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1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I agree with most, but not all, of this list...

15 Arrowverse Couples Who Have Zero Chemistry Together
by Stephanie Holland   January 19, 2018
https://www.cbr.com/arrowverse-couples-no-chemistry/

15. JAMES AND LENA
14. IRIS AND EDDIE
13. MOIRA AND WALTER
12. OLIVER AND SUSAN
11. JAMES AND KARA
10. SHADO AND SLADE
9. WALLY AND JESSE
8. CAITLIN AND JULIAN
7. THEA AND ALEX
6. WINN AND LYRA
5. RAY AND KENDRA
4. BARRY AND PATTY
3. OLIVER AND HELENA
2. FELICITY AND RAY
1. OLIVER AND LAUREL

I agree with Oliver and Laurel, Ray and Kendra, Thea and Alex, James and Kara, Oliver and Susan. I thought Oliver and Helena had chem, so did Barry and Patty, Shade and Slade, Moira and Walter and definitely Iris and Eddie. In fact, Iris and Eddie have waaaaay more chem than Barry and Iris. Eddie is the man Iris deserves. I have no clue about the others mentioned as I've never seen them. 

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6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Thinking about Oliver and Reporter still fills me with rage.

Same. It made me hate Oliver. I still can’t get over him defending her or him in 515(?) to Felicity and Thea. 

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21 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Thinking about Oliver and Reporter still fills me with rage.

I try to never think about that storyline...?

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50 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Thinking about Oliver and Reporter still fills me with rage.

I hated it because it made no sense and seemed designed to insult my intelligence. I'm still waiting for the reveal that they had a totally different plan but dropped it for some reason. 

My personal, amusing head canon is that they planned to have Susan betray Oliver by working with/being a plant for Chase/Talia and, then when they first started talking about it and, introduced her in 501 EVERYONE went this is just like Isabel. WM even publicly said  no no it's not like Isabel, I promise it's totally not the same thing. Then she went back to the writers room..scrap the Susan plan, scrap it, they've already fogured it out! ???

Edited by Morrigan2575
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3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I hated it because it made no sense and seemed designed to insult my intelligence. I'm still waiting for the reveal that they had a totally different plan but dropped it for some reason. 

My personal, amusing head canon is that they planned to have Susan betray Oliver by working with/being a plant for Chase/Talia and, then when they first started talking about it and, introduced her in 501 EVERYONE went this is just like Isabel. WM even publicly said  no no it's not like Isabel, I promise it's totally not the same thing. Then she went back to the writers room..scrap the Susan plan, scrap it, they've already fogured it out! ???

My theory is that it’s a combination of that and BTS stuff with WH. I still believe that the original plan was for Chase to take Thea, but then they didn’t have Thea on as much as originally planned, so they shoehorned Susan into that role. 

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That article, at least based on how it was written, seems to not know the difference between bad chemistry and unappealing writing. Yes, Lyra was a horrible person but was lack of chemistry really the big problem of Winn/Lyra? Same for several of the couples where the complaints seems to be that they were interloper couples and somebody else was the true love. That alone does not have to mean the characters have no chemistry. You'd still need to add a sentence about how "and the actors did nothing to trascend the couple feeling like just a placeholder". IMO both Iris and Eddie and Barry and Patty had fine enough chemistry.

Only the couples there the article calls them boring sound like they are actually talking about chemistry. 

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5 hours ago, way2interested said:

@Mellowyellow, looks like there might be a ring watch for FitzSimmons too if they keep those flash forward up. Even if they don't, boy was I surprised at seeing that ring in the flash forward to 2022.

Side note, looks a recurring theme for multiple superhero shows this year is "parenting/family" now with Arrow, Supergirl, potentially Flash, and now to a lesser extent AoS all doing the introducing kid figures (even if only for a moment).

Omg I've got to rewatch! I was too excited about the kiss! 

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*shakes fist angrily* Felicity and Ray had wonderful chemistry!!!!!!!! So offended they are ranked near the black hole of chemistry that is Oliver/Laurel!!!!!!!

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It will forever make me laugh that Stephen tried to sell how much he liked the Susan/Oliver dynamic, but on screen it looked like Oliver couldn’t escape from her fast enough.  

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1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha there is a gif somewhere of her trying to flirt with him and he looks like S1 Oliver wanting to snap her wrist. It was hilarious!

Is it the one of them at the bar? Because I found that scene hilarious. She covered his hand with hers and his face just noped hard, LOL!

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2 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Is it the one of them at the bar? Because I found that scene hilarious. She covered his hand with hers and his face just noped hard, LOL!

I can't remember where it was but I'm sure she prodded his hand and he gave her this look that was like "Touch me again and you'll lose that hand"

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1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

I can't remember where it was but I'm sure she prodded his hand and he gave her this look that was like "Touch me again and you'll lose that hand"

Yeah that was when she invited him out for a drink

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6 hours ago, tv echo said:

I agree with most, but not all, of this list...

15 Arrowverse Couples Who Have Zero Chemistry Together
by Stephanie Holland   January 19, 2018
https://www.cbr.com/arrowverse-couples-no-chemistry/

15. JAMES AND LENA
14. IRIS AND EDDIE
13. MOIRA AND WALTER
12. OLIVER AND SUSAN
11. JAMES AND KARA
10. SHADO AND SLADE
9. WALLY AND JESSE
8. CAITLIN AND JULIAN
7. THEA AND ALEX
6. WINN AND LYRA
5. RAY AND KENDRA
4. BARRY AND PATTY
3. OLIVER AND HELENA
2. FELICITY AND RAY
1. OLIVER AND LAUREL

Surely Felicity/Billy and Thea/DJ whose name I can't remember deserve to be on this list? 

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3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I can't remember where it was but I'm sure she prodded his hand and he gave her this look that was like "Touch me again and you'll lose that hand"

nope.gif.0c6317e82471b6f7787ff646457f457f.gif

Stephen makes the best NOPE faces.

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Hahaha his face is even more ragey than I remembered!!!!!

***

OMG Felicity/Billy had THE WORST chemistry ever!!!!!!! EBR looked like she tried but the other dude was a like a limp fish!!!!!!!!!! Oh that was sooooo bad!!!!! Soooooo bad!!!!!!! Especially after Raylicity which was adorable despite being a ship stall. My Raylicity self was SOOOO offended over S5.

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Black Lightnings outfit will be going through tweaks throughout the season/series

WILL BLACK LIGHTNING’S SUIT GET UPGRADES? | …in the way that Green Arrow and The Flash’s do? Though James Remar’s Gambi (a legit tailor!) did just outfit Jeff with a new version, further refinement is to come. “It’s like a piece of technology, so, there is, like, the 2.0 version and the 3.0 version…,” Williams shared at TCA press tour earlier this month. “It’s always been cool, but it gets even better and better. Our latest version is pretty awesome.”

http://tvline.com/2018/01/20/black-lightning-season-1-spoilers/

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1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Black Lightnings outfit will be going through tweaks throughout the season/series

 

Thank goodness.

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8 minutes ago, jaye.elle said:

This so much! I am possibly one of the only people who liked Ray and Felicity - I mean, he came on a bit much but he had such a good heart and is such a good guy :).

(I also liked Barry and Patty, and Iris and Eddie, so I'm like ... 50% in agreeance with this list. haha)

HIIIIII *waves at you excitedly* Welcome to Palmer Island *hands you a bunch of lychees*

I think there are 4 of us now, including you!

He is absolutely adorable and is my second favourite Arrowverse character behind Felicity! HUGE Olicity shipper here but LOVE Raylicity too! S3 was the best season ever for me!

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20 hours ago, way2interested said:

@Mellowyellow, looks like there might be a ring watch for FitzSimmons too if they keep those flash forward up. Even if they don't, boy was I surprised at seeing that ring in the flash forward to 2022.

agents-shield-fitz-married.jpeg?w=319&h=

(source)

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Legends of Tomorrow Eyeing Episode About Young Barack Obama
By Michael Ausiello / January 19 2018, 11:51 AM PST
http://tvline.com/2018/01/19/president-obama-legends-of-tomorrow-season-3-young-barack/

Quote

TVLine has learned exclusively that the time-tripping CW drama is revolving an upcoming Season 3 episode around a teenage version of President Barack Obama. Set in the late ’70s when the future No. 44 was a student at Occidental College, the hour is being penned by Keto Shimizu and James Eagan.

Casting is currently underway for an actor to play Young Obama. The episode starts shooting in early February and is slated to air in April.

Edited by tv echo

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3 hours ago, jaye.elle said:

This so much! I am possibly one of the only people who liked Ray and Felicity - I mean, he came on a bit much but he had such a good heart and is such a good guy :).

Welcome!!!! Come sit and talk Raylicity with us ;) I see @Mellowyellow already offered you lychees. Would you like a drink? :)

Major Olicity fan here, but Raylicity is sort of my side ship in the Arrowverse because I just adore BR and he and Emily had great chemistry, too. 

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Here Are the 3 Harley Quinn Movies in Contention at Warner Bros.
Umberto Gonzalez | Last Updated: January 19, 2018 @ 12:28 PM
https://www.thewrap.com/margot-robbie-3-harley-quinn-movies/

Quote

There’s little question that “I, Tonya” star Margot Robbie will reprise her role as Harley Quinn from 2016’s “Suicide Squad” — but it’s unclear which of 3 films will feature the bat-wielding psychiatrist-gone-mad.

Warner Bros. is weighing each of the projects as the next platform for “Robbie,” presently winning acclaim for playing Tonya Harding in “I, Tonya.” Insiders described each of the 3 films for TheWrap, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the uncertainty around where Harley will turn up next:

Suicide Squad 2.” This would be the most obvious place for the former Dr. Harleen Quinzel to pop up. Gavin O’Connor is expected to write and possibly direct the film, which could go into production in the fall after Will Smith wraps on his clone assassin movie “Gemini Man.” One reason “Suicide Squad 2” has the best odds is that the film may serve as Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson’s introduction to the DC Universe as the super-villain Black Adam,  two insiders familiar with the idea told TheWrap. Charles Roven is the lead producer on “Suicide Squad 2” and welcomed Mike Deluca who recently came on board the project to produce as well.
*  *  *
Birds of Prey.” Insiders say Robbie has become something of a DC Comics expert since joining “Suicide Squad,” and has taken an interest in “Birds of Prey.” The film is not a Quinn solo movie, but would feature multiple female superheroes — and possibly villains — in the DC Comics universe.  Screenwriter Christina Hodson is scripting the Harley Quinn/Birds of Prey spinoff for Warner Bros. and DC Films, TheWrap has learned exclusively. DC die-hards may remember that “Birds of Prey” was also a short-lived series on The WB network in 2002-3, featuring Mia Sara as Harley.

Joker vs Harley.” The third project in the mix is a love story between the two iconic supervillains in the vein of “Mr. and Mrs. Smith” but with The Joker and Harley. “Crazy, Stupid Love” directors Glenn Ficarra and John Requa would write as well as direct, with Jared Leto and Robbie expected to reprise their “Suicide Squad” roles as the Clown Prince of Crime and his deranged accomplice.

Edited by tv echo

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6 hours ago, jaye.elle said:

Hihihi back! I don't know if I'd put him at second (mainly because I don't watch LoT so I don't see him much), but he is definitely up there and deserves so much more than what he got from fans. Poor BRouth. I mean, I even made gifsets (multiple) of them so ... just sayin'! haha.

(PS - I just found out this forum exists today thanks to the posting of the emily/stephen photos on twitter and ZOMG I am so happy. I didn't realise there was an alternative to Reddit - I feel like I've missed out on so much! haha)

Okay, seriously, you have to watch LoT if you think you loved Ray in Arrow. Even the fans who hated Ray in Arrow love him in LoT.

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1 hour ago, Miss Dee said:

Even the fans who hated Ray in Arrow love him in LoT.

loathed him on Arrow but love him on LoT because of the characters he interacts with on that show. Him and Nate are so fun together!

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Oh yeah I hated in on Arrow but I completely love him on LOT, especially once they got rid of his Kendra subplot. God help me there were a few times in some S5 episodes where I was close to suggesting Felicity should look Ray up again and join the Waverider because he'd be better for her than robot!Oliver.

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Quote

TVLine has learned exclusively that the time-tripping CW drama is revolving an upcoming Season 3 episode around a teenage version of President Barack Obama. Set in the late ’70s when the future No. 44 was a student at Occidental College, the hour is being penned by Keto Shimizu and James Eagan.

MG really really misses the Obama years.

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13 hours ago, jaye.elle said:

(PS - I just found out this forum exists today thanks to the posting of the emily/stephen photos on twitter and ZOMG I am so happy. I didn't realise there was an alternative to Reddit - I feel like I've missed out on so much! haha)

Awwwww welcome! We have a nice community here that stays quite active throughout the Arrowverse (especially Arrow) and its a safe haven for Olicity/Felicity fans. Of course, everyone is welcome, but there are WAY more of us Olicity people here than on places like Reddit. We have fun :) 

I have mixed feelings on Raylicity, mainly because I REALLY disliked Ray when he first came on the scene, and that kind of killed my enjoyment of their dynamics, even when I warmed to him a bit (and I think when the writers figured out how to write his character), and by the time he ended up on LoT, where he became one of my favorite Arrowverse characters, they had already broken up. Looking back on it, I do like their chemistry a bit more, but it always come off as more friendly than romantic. I like when they interact because you can tell how much they "get" each other, but I just dont get the romance vibe anymore. Possibly because even when they were together, I felt that Felicity was still hung up on Oliver (and she was, obviously) and she never felt as strongly about Ray as he felt about her. She did (and does) care about him a lot, and loves hanging out with him, but she was still in love with Oliver, and I felt like that always hurt their romantic vibe. And I feel bad, because I really do want Ray to find someone (because for such a wonderful guy, he has terrible luck in love) but I never flt like it was Felicity. I feel like a bad fan! I mean, getting dumped by two women you loved one right after the other for other guys, right after your fiances death, is pretty brutal. 

You really should check out LoT, especially if you like Ray. Its the show that made me love him, and its just a great show in general. Some of season 1 is a bit rough (but with lots of good stuff) but from season 2 on its just awesome. Great characters, fun action, comedy, drama, and wackiness combined with real character growth and pathos. 

Edited by tennisgurl

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I really do want Ray to find someone (because for such a wonderful guy, he has terrible luck in love)

Yeah, I really want him to find someone that is as ready to love him as he is to love someone.  Kendra was so obviously a doomed relationship that I suffered his pain preemptively though the whole thing.    

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On 13.10.2017 at 2:44 AM, Starfish35 said:

It looks like the secretspoils twitter acct has been deleted, interestingly enough.

Does twitter let other people take the username of deleted accounts? 

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Sometimes I wish Kevin Smith would just shut up, but then I read this article and now I wish Mark Benardin would just shut up...

Kevin Smith Reveals What He Would Do for Arrowverse Crossover
By NICOLE DRUM - January 21, 2018
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/01/21/kevin-smith-arrowverse-crossover-crisis-on-infinite-earths/

Quote

Because the crossovers are so popular, everyone it seems has an idea about what the next major story should be and that includes Kevin Smith. During a recent episode of his Fat Man on Batman podcast, a fan asked both Smith and his co-host Mark Bernardin what story they would tackle if they were called up by Greg Berlanti and told to do the crossover. The pair had strikingly different, but equally interesting ideas on what they would do.

Smith -- who is not only a major comic book fan but has notably written a 15-issue run of Green Arrow for DC Comics that brought Oliver Queen back from the dead as well as introduced the future Speedy, Mia Dearden -- looked to classic comic book story arcs for his inspiration.

"If they gave me any kind of carte blanche I would try to do "Rock of Ages", but you couldn't really do it without the real Justice League," Smith said, referencing Grant Morrison's epic JLA story arc. "It would be so compromised. I would go for, I mean, you can't do the real "Crisis on Infinite Earths", but they do have a multiverse in that show like Supergirl exists in a different universe than Flash and Arrow, so you could. The worlds are colliding, like the multiverse story, the classic "Crisis on Infinite Earths" multiverse story. That would cover a week of programming and stuff. I would go for that."
*  *  *
"I kill Oliver Queen," Bernardin said. "I would make it the death of Oliver Queen. I think that Arrow is probably starting to run its course and there's a world in which in a year, two years maybe you come to the end of Arrow. If you're going to do that, then fucking do it. And if you're going to do it make it count, make it big and make it real and make the death of Oliver Queen your four-part crossover, like what happens, how, who did it, how they find out who did it, the fallout from it all of it."

Killing Oliver Queen might make for an interesting story, but it would be a crossover difficult to come back for, particularly for Arrow. While the rest of the shows -- The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow -- could likely continue without Oliver Queen, it would likely spell the end of Arrow. It's a possibility that Bernardin said might shift the crossover to a series finale event.

"Maybe that's your giant season finale as opposed to a sweeps event where you do four episodes that ends the season and it ends with the death of Oliver Queen," he said.

Edited by tv echo

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The TV Superhero Glut Might Not Be Totally Invincible
By Christopher Palmeri   January 22, 2018
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-22/the-tv-superhero-glut-might-not-be-totally-invincible

Quote

The long-running rivalry between Marvel and DC Comics, which began on comic-store shelves and has been most prominent in movie theaters, has now reached the saturation point on television and streaming services. There are more than two dozen superhero shows on the air or in development. The surge is raising the risk of superhero fatigue.

DC’s experience with “Supergirl” illustrates the potential limitations of the genre. The show first aired in 2015 on CBS, where it earned 2.4 million average viewers in the key under-50 group. On the CW, where “Supergirl” flew the following year, those numbers aren’t bad. Warner Bros., which owns the show, saved money by clustering the production with other programs it shoots in Vancouver, rather than its original location in Los Angeles. Still, this season the show is down to 1.19 million average viewers.
*  *  *
There have already been three cancellations among TV’s superabundance of costumed heroes: “Constantine,” a DC show about an exorcist, died after 13 episodes on NBC in 2015; “Human Target,” a DC show on Fox about a bodyguard who assumes the identities of his clients, was dropped in 2011; and ABC canceled “Agent Carter,” a Captain America spin-off from Marvel, after two short seasons. ABC, which also broadcasts the Marvel-based “Agents of SHIELD,” hasn’t said if it will pick “Inhumans” up for a second season.

Channing Dungey, who heads entertainment programming at ABC, said she remains undeterred by the “Inhumans” experience and will continue to delve into the superhero genre. “The question really is more: What kind of superhero show?” she said. “What’s the tone and how are we doing it? I would never say we’re through with superheroes.”
*  *  *
DC’s experience with TV superheroes dates back to “Adventures of Superman” and “Batman” in the 1950s and 1960s. It kicked off the modern era with “Arrow” on the CW channel in 2012. That show, about an archer whose quiver is packed with trick projectiles, is now in its sixth season and anchors the “Arrowverse” of spinoffs on the network, including “The Flash”' and “Legends of Tomorrow.”

Indeed, no channel has staked as much on the genre as the CW, a joint venture between Time Warner and CBS Corp. Its newest production, “Black Lightning,” premiered last week featuring an African-American superhero who shoots electricity. If you count “iZombie,” about a crime-fighting zombie with superpowers, the CW now has six superhero shows in production and devotes two full nights of primetime—Mondays and Tuesdays—to the programs.
*  *  *
Mark Pedowitz, the CW’s president, said superhero shows have brought the network, whose audience was once 70 percent skewed toward women, a now equal share of male viewers. The strategy hasn't insulated the network from an industrywide slump in ratings, with 18-to-49-year-old viewership down 7.5 percent in the current season. CW’s audience is flat with last season when online and recorded viewing is taken into account, Pedowitz said, and the shows' owners also make money when past seasons are shown by Netflix Inc.

Superhero shows in general attract a young, male audience that’s hard for advertisers to reach outside of sports, according to Chris Geraci, who helped direct some $5 billion in ads for clients of the Omnicom media agency. Because superhero programs are based on established characters and can be cross-promoted with related shows, they are somewhat safer bets than the typical new show. “You sort of have a built-in audience,” Geraci said.
*  *  *
Still, even such stalwarts as the CW are learning there are limits to what TV superheroes can sustain. There was much less competition six years ago, when “Arrow” made its debut, Pedowitz said, and now he won’t have more than four superhero shows on his air at any one time.

But he also doesn’t see an end to the superhero race. “The audience will tell you when the fatigue has set in,” Pedowitz said. “If you have a quality show or a fun show, the audience will stay with it.”

Edited by tv echo

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Both ideas aren't anything wow worthy at least from them. I wouldn't mind if they killed Oliver but I doubt they could do it justice and I'm just over death in Arrow, they need to be banned from killing people because they just suck at it.

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7 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Sometimes I wish Kevin Smith would just shut up, but then I read this article and now I wish Mark Benardin would just shut up...

Kevin Smith Reveals What He Would Do for Arrowverse Crossover
By NICOLE DRUM - January 21, 2018
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/01/21/kevin-smith-arrowverse-crossover-crisis-on-infinite-earths/

"I kill Oliver Queen," Bernardin said. 

Someone should tell these comicbook guys that centering a big event on the death of a character is lazy and cliched storytelling. There's a reason why no one takes death seriously in comics; it's used so often as a gimmick that it has lost all meaning. How many times has Superman died? It's boring now.

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Both those ideas sound boring af. I'm still team crossover on a different earth, with different versions of our characters and leave ours at home, making it a special event. I mean, I think it was someone on here that suggested a body swap xover, and I could get behind that lol.

Edited by JJ928
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4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I wish Mark Benardin would just shut up...

Who even is he? The people who contribute to the comics are so tiring, their sense of superiority, their hubris, their arrogance. It's all terrible.

It also is annoying when they tell showrunners what to do thinking their ideas are edgier and better when their ideas aren't that groundbreaking at all. It's also annoying they do this because they don't understand the limitations of TV and that what works in the comics don't necessarily work on TV. 

Ben Percy, Kevin Smith, Gail Simone, and now this Mark Benardin guy. They are all terrible.

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I'd love an all female crossover... but we'd need a whole new creative team for each show, because these people love their white dudes more than anything else.

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