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The Royals: All the People Who Unironically Wear Robes and Crowns

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53 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I don't have the time or energy to go far down the rabbit hole of the BRF's finances for myself, so I'm following this discussion with interest.

One issue that was involved in Edward VIII's abdication: money. I found a quick tabloid take on how the BRF bought him out; not sure how it really relates to H&M but their leave-taking was a good opportunity for a clickbait story.

The lovesick Edward VIII wasn't too distracted to take his family for all the ££££££ he could grab before he handed over the Crown. I remember reading about the financial settlement(s) in a book, it may have been Princes at War (good one, recommended). Edward lied and grossly minimized the value of his personal wealth when negotiating with his family over his allowance - detailed in the article I linked to.

I remember reading about this, which the article touches on:

King George VI had to buy out his brother’s interest in the Balmoral and Sandringham estates, which were Edward’s personal property and not the Sovereign’s possessions. 

I believe that cost George VI a significant amount, not just a little blip in his finances. His widow carried on about it for the rest of her long life, as if they'd been impoverished by it, although that wasn't the case.

That's made me idly wonder if Balmoral and Sandringham are now the Queen's personal property, or if some other arrangement has been made. Obviously the Abdication has resonated with HM her whole life in many ways, and I wonder if it's affected how she's managed her personal assets. She must have been aware that keeping Balmoral and Sandringham cost her father heavily if her mother kept going on and on about it for nearly 70 years.

Sandringham and Balmoral are still the Queen's personal property.  Yes, George did have to buy out Edward for those properties because they have always been the personal property of the House of Windsor.  George was under no obligation to purchase those properties from his brother though, that was a choice George made. An interesting tidbit from Wikipedia--George V left the properties to Edward, but chose to split up his cash for his other sons.  George got 750,000 pounds from his father and paid Edward 300,000 pounds for both Balmoral and Sandringham.    A hefty chunk of change, but this did not impoverish George and Elizabeth.  Maybe George could have driven a harder bargain, but Edward needed money and George needed Edward to go away.

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If you want to go down a trashy rabbit hole, there are a lot of books about Wallis and Edward (David). The Elizabeth (Bowes-Lyon) we know as the Queen Mother loathed Wallis. I remember some story about one of the joint residences that George had remodeled and landscaped to exactly what he wanted and Wallis came along saying that when Edward became King, she was going to change it all. 

Wallis was not a woman who liked and supported other women. She was a woman who had been raised thinking that other women were just competition. She certainly didn't like Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, who she likely viewed as dowdy, and resented that she, Wallis, as an untitled American, ranked lower than such a frump. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon hated Wallis for being an upjumped American divorcee who treated David like a lapdog and disrespected rank and the monarchy. I believe Wallis was rumored to have mocked George's stutter as well. 

(Apparently David got off on being treated like a lapdog and that's all I want to think about that.)

Then when David abdicated, George was thrust into a kingship that he did not want. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon resented Wallis and David to her dying day as her nice happy "family of the spare" suddenly became the monarch and the heir heading into WW2, leading to a lot of stress and eventual health issues for George.

Not to mention that Wallis and David continued to suck on the royal teat, getting a payout for the property and an allowance. David wanted to settle in Britain and George said No. David and Wallis then spent a little time supporting Hitler. There might have even been some plotting by Nazis and Nazi sympathizers to put David back on the throne. To get David out of Europe and bugger up that plotting, George made David the Governour of the Bahamas where he and Wallis spent a few years being racist, anti-Semitic spendthrifts. 

After the war, they moved to France where they supplemented their income with shady currency deals and David's memoir. 

Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon hated David and Wallis so so much for many reasons, not just because of the property buyout.

 

 

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14 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

 

Charles and QE2 could decide to disinherit him. I think it would be tacky, but they both have the right to decide where there personal assets go. And if that means the QE2 decides to give all her jewels to BlackberryJam and cut out all of her daughters-in-law, granddaughters, granddaughters-in-law and greatgranddaughters, so be it. Jam gets those jewels. That's just how it goes.

 

And if Blackberry would like to share with Callie Lee and the kittens, they are here to offer any support needed.

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Was Elizabeth’s father known as Prince Albert? Why did the prince change his name when he became king? Is it by choice or some weird rule?  What would be so terrible with a King Albert? Soo many questions.

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19 minutes ago, Mittengirl said:

Was Elizabeth’s father known as Prince Albert? Why did the prince change his name when he became king? Is it by choice or some weird rule?  What would be so terrible with a King Albert? Soo many questions.

He was. He took the regnal name George VI when he ascended to the throne. He supposedly took the name to restore confidence in the monarchy and as a symbol of continuity, as his father was George V. 

These people go by so many different names. Edward VIII was known as David, George VI was Bertie, lots of the Henry's including Bertie and David's brother, are known as Harry. They also had a brother named George who died in 1942. Don't get me started on Bertie and Elizabeth naming their own daughter Elizabeth, but then calling her Lilibet because why not just be even more confusing?

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11 minutes ago, Mittengirl said:

Was Elizabeth’s father known as Prince Albert? Why did the prince change his name when he became king? Is it by choice or some weird rule?  What would be so terrible with a King Albert? Soo many questions.

Queen Victoria loved her Prince Albert and pushed for many of her male descendants to be named after him.  The future Edward VII was baptized Albert Edward but chose to drop the Albert when he became king.  George VI was born Albert Frederick Arthur George as the Duke of York, and most likely chose to rule under the name of George as a sign of respect for his father George V and as a sign to the people that he was not going to be his elder brother Edward.  The monarch does get to choose which name he or she will use during their reign.  Queen Victoria was baptized Alexandrina Victoria.  I know there is some speculation as to what name Charles will take when he becomes king given how the reigns of the previous two Charles went.

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I can really see Charles going either way.   I could understand choosing George, because the two previous King Charles were rather ignominious, and because maybe it can be pushed as a further symbol of what he's always said: that being Monarch is different from being Prince of Wales, and he fully acknowledges that.  In this case, I think he'll probably be the last monarch to choose a different regnal name, at least for the foreseeable future.  I think the tradition only dates back to Victoria? 

Or, he could easily follow in his mother's footsteps and keep his name, since that's what the world and the press know him as, and just ignore all Charles III jokes.

(I don't see Charles naming himself King Arthur, after one of his middle names, more's the pity.  That would be media gold.)

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Just a photo of Art Chatto who appears to have avoided 'Windsor face' so far.

He and his crew are past their halfway point.

Also in royal news, Prince Joachim of Denmark had emergency brain surgery and is on the road to recovery.

 

Camz is out and wearing a gorgeous print mask.

Letizia and Felipe are continuing their travels through Spain and she makes everything look good.

 

Also, it's the King of Thailand's birthday and I just want him to continue to fuck the hell off. 

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1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

Don't get me started on Bertie and Elizabeth naming their own daughter Elizabeth, but then calling her Lilibet because why not just be even more confusing?

IIRC that was how toddler Margaret pronounced big sister's name.

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9 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I thought it was said that they got to choose what they wanted and that Harry picked the engagement ring, but then gave it to William when he wanted to propose to Kate.  Not true?

Yes, Harry was left the ring, he gave it to William to propose to Kate

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/princess-dianas-engagement-ring-was-given-to-prince-harry-this-is-how-it-ended-up-with-kate-middleton.html/

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2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

He was. He took the regnal name George VI when he ascended to the throne. He supposedly took the name to restore confidence in the monarchy and as a symbol of continuity, as his father was George V. 

These people go by so many different names. Edward VIII was known as David, George VI was Bertie, lots of the Henry's including Bertie and David's brother, are known as Harry. They also had a brother named George who died in 1942. Don't get me started on Bertie and Elizabeth naming their own daughter Elizabeth, but then calling her Lilibet because why not just be even more confusing?

 

52 minutes ago, suomi said:

IIRC that was how toddler Margaret pronounced big sister's name.

I believe this is also what sets the very rich apart from the rest of us untitled masses.  They only have like 10 acceptable names per sex to choose from so they come up with nicknames to differentiate everyone.  Queen Mary of Teck was known as May,  one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters was known as Ducky instead of Victoria.  

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On 7/27/2020 at 12:59 PM, truthaboutluv said:

 

 

Genuine question but how does one know these things to be factual? It is my understanding the costs of renovations to Frogmore, a big sticking point of contention, was grossly exaggerated by the tabloid press to once again push their narrative. Second, it has been confirmed that renovations were already scheduled on the building before Harry and Meghan were granted it. 

Lavish vacations? Harry and Meghan, like many of the rest of the world, seem to be stuck mostly in one place for much of this year since there's a global pandemic occurring. We also don't know what full time staff these people have or don't have. Just because a tabloid says it, doesn't make it fact. 

The $3 million figure for decor that I saw was exclusive of the planned and needed renovations done at Frogmore Cottage; but for specific finishes and furnishings chosen by the Sussex.  While the public hasn't been shown the interior of the cottage or what was done with it; the vendors and suppliers of much of the furnishings are known.  They didn't choose furnishings from Value City, after all.  Like the rest of the royal family, they used top of the line, luxury goods purveyors.  While $3 million might seem like a lot; the 'cottage' was converted from housing for multiple palace staffers into a private home with at least 4 bedrooms.  Since they were moving from a one bedroom place at Kensington; I presume a lot of new furniture was needed to fill the rooms.  Unlike the rest of us, I doubt they planned to decorate as they could afford it, they simply chose the furnishings and finishes that they wanted and Charles' accountants took care of it.

As for lavish vacations; before the baby's birth, Harry and Meghan took a 3 day 'babymoon' at a 5 star Heckfield Place in Hampshire and stayed in their finest rooms.  We know what it cost because it is a public venue, one that anyone can rent.  The cost of a 3 night stay?  $43,000.  If that isn't lavish, I don't know what is.

Don't get me wrong, I like Harry and Meghan, but they have a very lavish lifestyle and I have seen no signs that they intend to live on their own incomes/wealth.  Harry is the son of a billionaire, he is accustomed to that lifestyle and, like many sons of billionaires, his father is going to be financing a large portion of it. Otherwise, we'd have seen signs of them paring down and living in a simpler way.

Edited by doodlebug
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4 hours ago, ancslove said:

(I don't see Charles naming himself King Arthur, after one of his middle names, more's the pity.  That would be media gold.)

Oh, now I really wish he would. That would be awesome. I would love him forever if he posed pulling a sword out of a stone. 

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2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Oh, now I really wish he would. That would be awesome. I would love him forever if he posed pulling a sword out of a stone. 

I would be all over the Monty Python quote potential. 😉 And Charles, whom I have a rather neutral opinion of, would be my favorite royal if he joined in. "I am Arthur, King of the Britons."

 

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I love Camilla's mask.   I have some peacock feather print fabric, I should make myself one.   

Edward was a leach who always was maneouvering to get his allowance increased.    He and Wallis wanted to live as if he was still King, not the abdicated dude who was completely hapless anything but having fun and looking dashing.

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I think it would be fantastic if the Prince of Wales opted to be King Arthur but he may hesitate because the last one who was supposed to have that title Arthur, Prince of Wales (Henry VII's firstborn son, Henry VIII's older brother and Katharine of Aragon's spouse of debatable bond), died rather young and with things winding up in limbo for quite sometime thereafter. Yes, Henry VII   the founder of the Tudor Dynasty with his direct paternal line being Welsh did indeed want his and Elizabeth of York's firstborn son to be King Arthur II- to harken back to the legendary king who was revered by the Welsh ,English and, yes, the Scottish,too!  Still, the last previous royal Arthur, Duke of Connaught (Vic's 3rd born son) wound up being the longest living of her offspring - living to age 91 in 1942 so,yes, his great-great-niece DID meet him. 

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32 minutes ago, Blergh said:

I think it would be fantastic if the Prince of Wales opted to be King Arthur but he may hesitate because the last one who was supposed to have that title Arthur, Prince of Wales (Henry VII's firstborn son, Henry VIII's older brother and Katharine of Aragon's spouse of debatable bond), died rather young and with things winding up in limbo for quite sometime thereafter. Yes, Henry VII   the founder of the Tudor Dynasty with his direct paternal line being Welsh did indeed want his and Elizabeth of York's firstborn son to be King Arthur II- to harken back to the legendary king who was revered by the Welsh ,English and, yes, the Scottish,too!  Still, the last previous royal Arthur, Duke of Connaught (Vic's 3rd born son) wound up being the longest living of her offspring - living to age 91 in 1942 so,yes, his great-great-niece DID meet him. 

I think he should keep the name he was born with, just like his mother did. 

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13 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I believe this is also what sets the very rich apart from the rest of us untitled masses.  They only have like 10 acceptable names per sex to choose from so they come up with nicknames to differentiate everyone.  Queen Mary of Teck was known as May,  one of Queen Victoria's granddaughters was known as Ducky instead of Victoria.  

Nah, it's more just a really old-fashioned thing, rather than royal. Follow my dirt poor family tree back to my farm labouring forebears of the 19th century and just about everyone is named George, William or Henry, or Mary or Clara for the women, with nicknames abounding to differentiate them. The difference is, we mere plebs eventually figured out that it's okay to branch out beyond using traditional family names all the time, and ended up with wonderful variety; the royals remain constricted to a much narrower selection because they can't break free of tradition!

Edited by Llywela
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2 hours ago, Llywela said:

Nah, it's more just a really old-fashioned thing, rather than royal. Follow my dirt poor family tree back to my farm labouring forebears of the 19th century and just about everyone is named George, William or Henry, or Mary or Clara for the women, with nicknames abounding to differentiate them. The difference is, we mere plebs eventually figured out that it's okay to branch out beyond using traditional family names all the time, and ended up with wonderful variety; the royals remain constricted to a much narrower selection because they can't break free of tradition!

Italians have a wonderful tradition of naming the first born son after the paternal grandfather, the second after the maternal grandfather, the daughters follow the same route.    So yeah, there's only about 3 names in every family.    That's why you get all the nicknames, Sammy The Bull Gravano, Joey Walnuts, whatever, to distinguish them from all the OTHER family members with the same name.   Nicknames are nothing rich or poor.  

As for Charles becoming King Arthur, he will never do anything that fanciful.    Remember he named his model town "Poundbury."   

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But interestingly, he (Charles) seems to have encouraged his sister Anne to use the name Zara for her daughter.  Definitely not a traditional royal name. 

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Wills from an older interview.

I am disturbed  by his chest hair. 

This is about a month old and I'd meant to share it, but had forgotten.

Eugenie showing her scoliosis scar. Her having scoliosis and surgery hadn't been on my radar.

Here are some shots of Stephanie, Guillaume and baby Charles.

I am at the edge of a rabbit hole...I started looking up Princess Angela of Liechtenstein but came upon that country's history of abortion legislation. ....Yeah, I'm going to back to jewels and pretty dresses. 

They married years ago, but here is the dress and the tiara.

shutterstock_editorial_9692138a-1.jpg

Princess-Angela-of-Liechtenstein1.jpg

Here they are a couple of years ago with their son.

PrinceAlfons.jpg

Hans-Adam II, the ruling Prince (father of Max, father-in-law of Angela), is reportedly the richest royal in Europe, being worth somewhere around 10billion, based on his bank ownership. And honestly, he looks like a slightly softer Tywin Lannister.

100_Imageteaser-Fuerst_726x454.jpg_41129

 

Edited by BlackberryJam · Reason: More Liechtenstein fun.
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@BlackberryJam I just about died on the tywin Lannister comment. A Liechtenstein always pays his debts!!!!!! 😉

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2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Wills from an older interview.

I am disturbed  by his chest hair. 

This is about a month old and I'd meant to share it, but had forgotten.

Eugenie showing her scoliosis scar. Her having scoliosis and surgery hadn't been on my radar.

Several years ago she ran the London Marathon in support of the hospital that did the surgery on her back.   I think that was when I first heard of it.   She said she had a rod inserted into her spine and her friends like to stick magnets on her back.

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10 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Italians have a wonderful tradition of naming the first born son after the paternal grandfather, the second after the maternal grandfather, the daughters follow the same route.    So yeah, there's only about 3 names in every family.   

Greeks do something similar, and given their own penchant for large families, you will indeed end up with multiple "whoevers" at every family event.

9 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Wills from an older interview.

I am disturbed  by his chest hair. 

This is about a month old and I'd meant to share it, but had forgotten.

Eugenie showing her scoliosis scar. Her having scoliosis and surgery hadn't been on my radar.

Here are some shots of Stephanie, Guillaume and baby Charles.

I am at the edge of a rabbit hole...I started looking up Princess Angela of Liechtenstein but came upon that country's history of abortion legislation. ....Yeah, I'm going to back to jewels and pretty dresses. 

They married years ago, but here is the dress and the tiara.

shutterstock_editorial_9692138a-1.jpg

Princess-Angela-of-Liechtenstein1.jpg

Here they are a couple of years ago with their son.

PrinceAlfons.jpg

Hans-Adam II, the ruling Prince (father of Max, father-in-law of Angela), is reportedly the richest royal in Europe, being worth somewhere around 10billion, based on his bank ownership. And honestly, he looks like a slightly softer Tywin Lannister.

100_Imageteaser-Fuerst_726x454.jpg_41129

 

Her dress is very similar to Meghan's.

 

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1 hour ago, Camille said:

Greeks do something similar, and given their own penchant for large families, you will indeed end up with multiple "whoevers" at every family event.

Her dress is very similar to Meghan's.

 

There were stories around the time of the H&M wedding that M had purposely had her dress designed similar to Princess Angela. Angela and Max are SO low key.

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12 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Several years ago she ran the London Marathon in support of the hospital that did the surgery on her back.   I think that was when I first heard of it.   She said she had a rod inserted into her spine and her friends like to stick magnets on her back.

I first heard of it after her wedding when there were statements that she chose her wedding dress to showcase her scar. First time I'm hearing about the magnet thing though. 

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22 hours ago, Camille said:

Greeks do something similar, and given their own penchant for large families, you will indeed end up with multiple "whoevers" at every family event.

Starts at 1:00

 

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Great movie. When they were casting The Sopranos the producers wanted Lorraine Bracco for Carmela. She said I already played that role in Goodfellas, give me Dr Melfi. Nice break for Edie Falco. 

Edited by suomi · Reason: typo
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Henry Hill running around high on cocaine and paranoid about being followed by the feds while he's trying to run boring errands, cook dinner, and smuggle drugs might be my favorite scene in any movie. 

On topic: I wonder if any of the royals like Goodfellas as much as I do! 😄

Edited by Zella
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The helicoptors! I thought about mentioning that but I'd already mentioned what I figure is my allotment. 

Re do any of the royals like Goodfellas? My money is on Yes. After the little Royals are in bed, or in their wing of the castle. 

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3 minutes ago, suomi said:

The helicoptors! I thought about mentioning that but I'd already mentioned what I figure is my allotment. 

Re do any of the royals like Goodfellas? My money is on Yes. After the little Royals are in bed, or in their wing of the castle. 

I was going to add a gif of the choppers, but then I was like, "Calm down, Zella!" LOLOL 

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https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/07/lady-colin-campbell-swears-its-not-a-takedown/amp

Going back to the name thing, I wish that instead of constantly reusing names, they would just simply use another version of them--there must be at least a hundred different versions of "Elizabeth" such as "Isabelle", "Liesl", etc. "Charlotte" is the feminine of "Charles", so I thought Will and Kate were starting that trend.

Edited by Camille
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Before Edward IV married Elizabeth Woodville, Isabel was actually the conventional English rendition of the original Hebrew name of Elisheba ('God swears/God is an oath')  while the first name was a somewhat obscure rendition of it. And, in fact, several English queen consorts had previously had the latter  name.  It became slightly more popular when her namesake daughter became Henry VII's queen but when their surviving son Henry VIII  bestowed that name to his firstborn by Anne Boleyn, the name became wildly popular- especially during the Last Tudor monarch's reign and hasn't ceased being popular in Great Britain. Oh, and thanks to her success, it became popular on the Continent with quite a few renditions used for their royals such as 'Elisabeth' (in French, German) to Yelizaveta (Russian).' 

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I flove this thread. I learn so many interesting things here that send me down rabbit holes.

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The link posted above from geo.tv doesn’t say anything new, but does use an expression I have never heard - (Harry) “felt like the gooseberry” when he would go on official outings with Will & Kate.  Can anyone tell me where that comes from?  I get the idea, that he felt like a third wheel, but are gooseberries an unnecessary fruit or some such thing?

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3 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

The link posted above from geo.tv doesn’t say anything new, but does use an expression I have never heard - (Harry) “felt like the gooseberry” when he would go on official outings with Will & Kate.  Can anyone tell me where that comes from?  I get the idea, that he felt like a third wheel, but are gooseberries an unnecessary fruit or some such thing?

The meaning and origin of the expression: Play gooseberry

According to this it’s from Victorian England when an unmarried couple needed a chaperone. Gooseberries were commonly found in gardens so picking gooseberries was used as pretext. 

Quote

The expression alludes to the role of the chaperone, who had to be present and within earshot of the romantic couple but had also to pretend to be otherwise occupied. If this scene was played out inside a home the pretext might be sewing or reading a book; if outside it might be picking flowers or fruit. 'Playing gooseberry' began as 'playing gooseberry picker'.

 

Edited by Dani
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Honestly, I think most people would feel like a third wheel if they tagged along on their brother's dates with his girlfriend/wife! That's completely normal. 

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2 hours ago, cincivic said:

Peter isn't very royal, either.

Peter is a royal name (albeit not in Britain). Peter the Great?  There were also five kings of Portugal named Pedro.

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19 hours ago, Steph J said:

Peter is a royal name (albeit not in Britain). Peter the Great?  There were also five kings of Portugal named Pedro.

You beat me to it!

In addition to Portugal, there have been multiple monarchs named Peter, Pedro, Pere, etc. in Russia, Castile, Aragon, not to mention a few popes.

Edited by praeceptrix · Reason: To correct the error pointed out by IrishPirate (thanks!).
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17 hours ago, praeceptrix said:

You beat me to it!

In addition to Portugal, there have been multiple monarchs named Peter, Pedro, Pere, etc. in Russia, Castile, Aragon, not to mention a few popes.

No popes named Peter except the first one. There's a bit of superstition about that, as in, if someone dared to take that name to use, the world is truly coming to an end.

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1 hour ago, IrishPirate said:

No popes named Peter except the first one. There's a bit of superstition about that, as in, if someone dared to take that name to use, the world is truly coming to an end.

I have fixed my post. Thanks for pointing that out. I can't believe I actually made that mistake, as I should and do know better!

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Since I have some free time, I thought I'd share a little bit about the surprisingly diverging fates of a daughter-in-law and two grandchild of Victoria!

HSH Princess Helena of Waldeck-Pyrmont was born in 1861 into the reigning ruling family of that tiny German principality and was so keenly intelligent that her father put her in charge of that domain's infant schools while she was still a minor and she used that position to devise the students' educational curriculum. Anyway, with her elder sister Emma having married the elderly King William III of the Netherlands (and having borne their only child- the future Queen Wilhelmina), she caught the attention of the British royal family who wanted to help Prince Leopold's melancholy. Prince Leopold had been the one son of V&A who had been born with hemophilia and had been considered too frail to do more than be Vic's de facto secretary but he longed to have some normalcy. His condition was universally known among Continental royals and nobles but Helena's father agreed to them marrying on the grounds that it would be better for his daughter to have a brief happy marriage than a miserable lengthy one.  So, they were wed in 1882 and at age 21, Helena became HRH the Duchess of Albany. To Vic's surprise, they conceived their firstborn straight away which Vic had thought would be impossible due to Leopold's frailty and all were  delighted when their daughter Alice was born in February, 1883.  Then, in February, 1884, to seek relief from his aching joints from the harsh English weather, he went to Cannes alone leaving   Helena behind with their infant daughter. Alas, in late March, Leopold fell down some stairs which caused a hemmorage to happen and he died at age 30. The Duchess of Albany was 23 with an infant daughter and heavily pregnant!  By all accounts, it HAD been a happy marriage -albeit brief. In July, the Duchess of Albany gave birth to his posthumous son Charles Edward who immediately succeeded his late father's title of Duke of Albany! Despite having been German-born with close ties to her family, the Duchess had become proudly English and did all she could to raise her two children to make their late father proud while eventually establishing the Deptford Fund to provide alternative work for laboring women. Oh, and they lived together in Clairmont- an estate which had been bestowed to Princess Charlotte of Wales and her new husband Prince Leopold of Saxe-Coburg Saalfeld  in 1815 and the latter would live there long after his first wife's death until he became King of the Belgians in 1830 (and, yes, the Duke of Albany had been named for him).  Anyway, Princess Alice of Albany and her younger brother the Duke of Albany were called 'the Siamese twins' due to their closeness as children and Princess Alice would remember visits with their paternal grandmother- especially her Jubilees!

  Alas, this dynamic was forever altered to everyone's lasting regret in 1900. The late Prince Consort had been the only brother of Ernest the Reigning Duke of Saxe-Coburg Gotha but it had been mandated , if Ernest didn't have any legit heirs, that the 2nd born son of V&A would become the new Reigning Duke. Ernest would live to 1893 but Vic wasted no time to have her 2nd born son Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh take up the mantle (in no small part to send away his annoying Russian-born wife Marie who had an endless hissing contest with Vic). Then in 1899, their only son Affie died quite suddenly of still questionable circumstances at age 25 then less than a year later, Alfred himself died. This left the Saxe-Coburg Dukedom vacant  which, being the Prince Consort's birthplace and Vic's own maternal ancestral home, Vic wasn't going to stand for that. Vic's 3rd born son Arthur, Duke of Connaught  was the next in line but he begged off that chance saying that he didn't want to give up his military life for that and didn't want to have to uproot his family but then said 'How about Charlie Albany?' (as the family called the Duke). Vic decided that this English-born 16-year-old Duke who had never been away from his mother or sister would be the ideal new Duke of Saxe-Coburg and had him sent to Germany to be put in a military academy under his eldest cousin Kaiser Wilhelm II's aegis!  Of course, Vic herself would die in 1901 before it became evident how disastrous an outcome this would be.

In 1904, Alice married her distant cousin (and the future Queen Mary's brother), Prince Alexander of Teck while the Duchess Helena continued doing her good works and being a popular English Royal while the two did their best to keep close touch with Duke of Coburg now called Karl. No one thought this dynamic would change but in 1914, it totally did. The Great War (later called WWI) was declared and Karl, Duke of Coburg, (according to his cousin the  Ernest,Grand Duke of Hesse), wasted no time in declaring his loyalty to his cousin the Kaiser and instantly sent back ALL his English medals and honors back to their mutual cousin George V. This  got George V to take down all the banners of his German cousins from St. George's Chapel AND revoke their Garter and other honors! By 1917, George had enough of being accused of being a 'foreign' king and changed the name of the British dynasty from Saxe-Coburg Gotha to Windsor AND compelled any Germanic cousins living in the UK to follow suit (which is why the Battenbergs became Mountbattens) so Prince Alexander of Teck adopted the surname of Cambridge and become the Earl of Athone while continuing to serve in the British Army! 1918 came with the Allies defeating the Great Powers and they wasted no time in stripping Karl, Duke of Coburg of his title and he was not able to return to his birthplace having been stripped of his British subjecthood. 

Ironically, his mother, the German-born Helena, Duchess of Albany was still a British Royal and able to travel to visit so at age 61, she decided to visit her son and his family to try to give them some comfort but, tragically, during this visit, on a jaunt to an Austrian  Alpine resort in Tyrol, she suddenly died in September, 1922. 

 This appears to have completely unhinged Karl, for barely a month later,  he met and   immediately became entranced in October with what others had considered a local hothead and crackpot- one Adolf Hitler! Karl believed that Hitler could restore his Dukedom so he became an eager supporter with Coburg being the very first German town to have a NAZI mayor as a result.

Meantime, his sister, Princess Alice's husband, the Earl of Athlone got appointed as the British Viceroy of South Africa and she accompanied him on his assignment with their daughter and surviving son (yes, her younger son had died of the hemophilia that she had carried). 

Despite his sister's pleas, Karl kept hitching his wagon to the NAZI star and would appall and shock her and the rest of their family (with the exception of Edward VIII) when he appeared at George V's funeral in 1936 wearing a NAZI Field Marshall uniform! Oh, and he was a big supporter of the new king who he believed could ALSO restore his English honors. Of course, Edward VIII abdicated by December,1936 and George VI wanted no part of that so that wound up for naught.

Princess Alice's husband then got appointed as Governor General  of Canada from 1940 to 1946 but even with all that clout, they were unable to get Karl out of the Allied prison after WWII in which they discovered him   scrounging about for scraps in garbage cans!  Karl had been in the Reichstag and high up in the party (and had known what it was about from the beginning), yet Princess Alice couldn't help but feel sorry for her brother in ill health. Karl wound up being released but having to live in a caretaker's cottage with his wife since virtually all of his wealth had been confiscated. He made one small trip to the local cinema to see the newsreels of his sister participating in the Coronation of Elizabeth II but knew he would never have been permitted to go even had he had the monies to travel. Oh, and he wound up dying in the very same bed he had somehow kept all those years- his childhood bed from Clairmont AND he would take English tea whenever possible to his dying day in 1954!  

Alice's husband retired and then died in 1957- and, as she wound up being the last surviving Grandchild of Vic as well as the then-oldest member of the Royal Family, she became somewhat of an icon to both the Royals and the British public before her death at age 97 in 1981. 

Elizabeth II would visit West Germany then Germany many times during her long reign but,  despite her direct paternal line originating from there and it being  a favored spot her double-great -grandma Vic,   Her Majesty has never ONCE visited Coburg- almost certainly due to embarrassment of her cousin Karl's NAZI ties! 

Edited by Blergh
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World War I was the Cousins War -- and France/Italy/USA.   

The Saxe-Coburg-Gotha hot mess was not the only thing that was all messed up from then.    

Oh and don't forget the current Duke of Edinburgh's family (except his sainted mother) were fervent Nazis.   A bunch of them were wiped out in a plane crash that somehow became Philip's fault.   Honestly the guy was better off without his family.

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OtterMommy

Everyone has stated their views on the Sussexes and no one is going to change anyone's mind.  Any further excessive bickering may lead to a temporary suspension of this thread.  If you do not agree with someone's opinion, please scroll to the next post.  If you feel the need to take a stronger action, please use the ignore function.

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