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The Royals: All the People Who Unironically Wear Robes and Crowns

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4 hours ago, GaT said:

I really wonder about the "financially independent" part. As has already been mentioned, Harry inherited millions from his mother, & has had money coming in for being a senior royal (of course, we don't know what money he has donated or spent), so "financially independent" sounds a little weird. The only thing I can think of is Royals who perform duties get paid for it, so maybe this is their way of saying they will be removing themselves from the payroll?

I don't believe that there is a difference between the two..

I think that "financially independent" was a pointed comment to UK taxpayers rather than about their financial situation.  Every time Harry or Meghan would comment on how it felt to have the press and public spitting vitriol at Meghan, there would be a chorus of "stop whining, we pay for your luxury lifestyle"  With an unstated that gives us a pass to be viscous assholes because we own you.  

By cutting the money off, they are giving themselves the ability not to be required to put up with it and cutting off the major "justification" the press and people feel they have for their behavior.

1 hour ago, Pickles said:

I don't think the UK is too sad about this news. Lol. The UK taxpayers will be happy. Now the Canadians may be paying taxes for them.

I doubt they will be happy.  I think they view trolling Meghan as sport.  I mean most of that money goes to property upkeep, not Harry and Meghan.   The horror, to lose all that "entertainment" and still have to pay about $2.70 each year ( Sovereign Grant = $86Mil / ~32 Mil tax payers) for the Monarchy.   I'm sure they'll find someone else to torture. 

2 hours ago, MissAlmond said:

One day all, and I do mean all, will eventually come out in the wash as it always does with these things.  When it does, I'm settling in with a bowl of popcorn for myself and smelling salts for those who need it.  🤐😉 You do you, Harry and Meghan! Life is too precious and short not to.

Agree.  I do think we probably just found out what those vague comments Harry made during the Africa trip about he and William having some sort of falling out were.

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1 hour ago, PepSinger said:

Why? She’s worth millions and so is her husband. I don’t buy that. At all. It doesn’t make sense.

Yeah... Regarding the bolded, she may not be as independently/inheritance wealthy as her husband, but I remember it being said around these parts, during the engagement or way earlier in the marriage, that Meghan supposedly had her own personal worth of something like $7 million (US), from Suits, other acting roles, her Tig website, etc. So she wouldn’t exactly be “living rough” (as Prince William said about the homeless on the recent Christmas British TV special with Mary Berry), either, if she/gave up the money British Royals are entitled to from the British government.

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3 hours ago, Anduin said:

Too bad. If they want out, is there anything she can do to keep them in? For that matter, she hasn't seemed all that supportive this whole time. If they want to leave, they should. They shouldn't be forced into being paparazzi fodder their whole lives.

AMEN!!!!!

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14 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

 

Agree.  I do think we probably just found out what those vague comments Harry made during the Africa trip about he and William having some sort of falling out were.

I still think those comments were about the rumors of William's infidelity that hit Twitter over the summer.  If William really did cheat on Kate while she was pregnant with Louis, I can see how Harry would be angry.  I do also believe that the Firm nudged the press to focus on Meghan to deflect any story about William.   He is the heir not Harry and they are way more vested in keeping his image sterling.  See also Mummy's favorite Andrew and his good friend Jeffrey.  Meghan was an easy target for the racist press, and they used her accordingly. 

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4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I can certainly understand them wanting to live on their own and in their own way; however, if they didn't give the Queen a heads up then that is surprising and disrespectful.  

But if the queen was informed and knew of their plans wouldn't it be nice  if she spoke up and for once defended them!!!  She never does even when they are trashed over and over again.

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8 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

But if the queen was informed and knew of their plans wouldn't it be nice  if she spoke up and for once defended them!!!  She never does even when they are trashed over and over again.

But we don't know if she was or if she wasn't.  Maybe the queen will tell you.

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32 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

But if the queen was informed and knew of their plans wouldn't it be nice  if she spoke up and for once defended them!!!  She never does even when they are trashed over and over again.

The Queen is not going to comment on things, until all plans are in place and agreed upon. Meghan and Harry released their vision of how THEY want things to go. The Queen may very well have different ideas and she has the final say. She may not want them to continue to use Frogmore as a residence. She may not want to fund a Canadian residence or allow them to monetize their royal status. She may want to strip them of their royal titles and their royal protection. Apparently, none of that has been worked out yet. M and H jumped the gun by putting their vision of their plans out there. Let's wait and see what actually happens. Meghan doesn't always get what Meghan wants. 

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8 minutes ago, Steph J said:

I don't believe that they didn't tell the Queen about their plans.  I do think that they didn't tell anyone that they were going to be announcing their plan when they did, based on how rushed the response from Buckingham Palace seems.  I think the courtiers expected more time to come up with their "spin" and were caught off guard when H&M dropped the news and, in doing so, claimed ownership of the narrative.  And, honestly, good for them if they refused to let the "men in grey" set the tone.

Exactly. There has probably been discussions for months if not longer. The Palace wanted a plan all worked out before an announcement.

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Also, as someone in another forum pointed out, it also looks like H&M planned the announcement for when it would be the middle of the day in North America but after hours in the UK.  If they did that purposefully to make the UK press scramble to cover the story, then my hat is off to them.

Nice.

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3 hours ago, Pickles said:

I don't think the UK is too sad about this news. Lol. The UK taxpayers will be happy. Now the Canadians may be paying taxes for them.

As a Canadian I do not see this happening.  Every time there's a royal visit, a huge deal is always made about the costs to us for hosting.  Given that his government was already reduced to a minority in the last election, it would be political suicide for Trudeau to agree to commit taxpayer money to fund the household of three people who aren't even Canadian citizens.

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Their new website is working again and answers a lot of questions. It’s a really interesting read through. 

https://sussexroyal.com/media/

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In the spring of 2020, The Duke and Duchess of Sussex will be adopting a revised media approach to ensure diverse and open access to their work. This adjustment will be a phased approach as they settle into the new normality of their updated roles.  This updated approach aims to:

Engage with grassroots media organisations and young, up-and-coming journalists; 

Invite specialist media to specific events/engagements to give greater access to their cause-driven activities, widening the spectrum of news coverage; 

Provide access to credible media outlets focused on objective news reporting to cover key moments and events; 

Continue to share information directly to the wider public via their official communications channels; 

No longer participate in the Royal Rota system. 

What is the ‘Royal Rota’ system?

The Royal Rota was established more than 40 years ago as a way of giving UK print and broadcast media exclusive inside access to the official engagements of members of the Royal Family. 

Under this system, the rota, or pool, gives these British media representatives the opportunity to exclusively cover an event, on the understanding that they will share factual material obtained with other members of their sector who request it. The current system predates the dramatic transformation of news reporting in the digital age. The core group of UK outlets with Royal Rota access remain the predominant news source through which worldwide media organisations receive content on the official engagements of members of the Royal Family. These UK media outlets are: The Daily Express, The Daily Mail, The Daily Mirror, The Evening Standard, The Telegraph, The Times, The Sun.

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How does this new media policy relate to the UK’s Royal Correspondents?

Britain’s Royal Correspondents are regarded internationally as credible sources of both the work of members of The Royal Family as well as of their private lives. This misconception propels coverage that is often carried by other outlets around the world, amplifying frequent misreporting. Regrettably, stories that may have been filed accurately by Royal Correspondents are, also, often edited or rewritten by media editorial teams to present false impressions.

 

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1 minute ago, Steph J said:

As a Canadian I do not see this happening.  Every time there's a royal visit, a huge deal is always made about the costs to us for hosting.  Given that his government was already reduced to a minority in the last election, it would be political suicide for Trudeau to agree to commit taxpayer money to fund the household of three people who aren't even Canadian citizens.

I can certainly understand this. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. 

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1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

I think that "financially independent" was a pointed comment to UK taxpayers rather than about their financial situation.  Every time Harry or Meghan would comment on how it felt to have the press and public spitting vitriol at Meghan, there would be a chorus of "stop whining, we pay for your luxury lifestyle"  With an unstated that gives us a pass to be viscous assholes because we own you.  

By cutting the money off, they are giving themselves the ability not to be required to put up with it and cutting off the major "justification" the press and people feel they have for their behavior.

BINGO.

By not getting money from the Civil List or Privy Purse or whatever, they can live their own lives.   They can tell the papparazzi to fuck off.   They don't have to worry as much about "image" except as it reflects on the family as a whole.

This is a little different than Junior going off to college far away.   Harry basically is leaving the family business.   There was a plan for his part in the business.   Now they have to plan otherwise.    Like someone mentioned -- is Frogmore still going to be their London home?   Or will they buy a flat somewhere?   What about the patronages.    Will they keep their Royal Titles -- including the HRH even if they aren't going to be doing many Royal duties?  Will most of their Royal Duties be in North America -- which is not just Canada.   

This was brewing, which explains the private Christmas vacation in Vancouver, rather than Toronto (where Meghan lived before marriage) or LA (where her mother lives).     It was a way to get out of the spotlight and really talk through what THEY wanted.    Not a big surprise then shortly after their return and after an official engagement today (they were at Canada House in London  hmmmmm) they announced.   

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19 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

NBC's report this evening said that the royal family, and therefore, the Queen, knew that Meghan and Harry wanted to step back, that the royals did not object to the idea but were not expecting that announcement to come today.  They said that the Palace was expecting a definitive plan  to be developed and be ready to go before any announcement was made, but Harry and Meghan apparently felt otherwise.

Good for H&M for not sitting and waiting for the palace to take/keep control. 

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7 minutes ago, shantown said:

Good for H&M for not sitting and waiting for the palace to take/keep control. 

The Queen has the ultimate control in the end. 

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5 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Like someone mentioned -- is Frogmore still going to be their London home? 

According to their website it will. 
 

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Given their transition into members of the Royal Family with financial independence, will The Duke and Duchess of Sussex maintain their residence at Frogmore Cottage?

Frogmore Cottage will continue to be the property of Her Majesty the Queen. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex will continue to use Frogmore Cottage – with the permission of Her Majesty The Queen – as their official residence as they continue to support the Monarchy, and so that their family will always have a place to call home in the United Kingdom.

 

7 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

What about the patronages. 

According to their initial statement they are keeping their patronages. 

 

9 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Will they keep their Royal Titles -- including the HRH even if they aren't going to be doing many Royal duties?  Will most of their Royal Duties be in North America -- which is not just Canada.   

They are still planning on doing Royal duties but just part time and with more freedom and the ability to work outside of the Royal Family. As for their titles there is no reason why they wouldn’t keep them when Beatrice and Eugenie still have theirs and are not senior royals. 

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5 minutes ago, Dani said:

According to their website it will. 
 

 

According to their initial statement they are keeping their patronages. 

 

They are still planning on doing Royal duties but just part time and with more freedom and the ability to work outside of the Royal Family. As for their titles there is no reason why they wouldn’t keep them when Beatrice and Eugenie still have theirs and are not senior royals. 

But, the Queen has the final say about all of this. 

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1 minute ago, Pickles said:

But, the Queen has the final say about all of this. 

That goes without saying. I find it hard to believe that Harry would release a statement about keeping their patronages and Frogmore if that weren't true and nothing about the palace's statement suggests Harry lied.

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Meghan doesn't always get what Meghan wants.

Ah, there it is.

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40 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

   Like someone mentioned -- is Frogmore still going to be their London home? 

Frogmore House is actually in Windsor about half an hour outside of London.  It is on the grounds of Windsor Castle and belongs to the 'Crown' AKA the ruling monarch.  I would imagine that this is one of the details that the Queen and her staff wanted to get hashed out before the big announcement was made.

Recall that Harry and Meghan moved there just before Archie's birth at least in part because they wanted to get away from the constant press attention at Kensington Palace in London.  While there seems to be a lot of griping that the Queen didn't take Harry and Meghan's situation seriously; the fact that she helped set up their move to Frogmore indicates that she did indeed take their concerns into consideration.  It might not have been enough, maybe she should've done more; but it wasn't the Queen who wanted the move, Harry and Meghan did.  There was an empty apartment at Kensington next to the Cambridge family which was originally meant to be for Harry and Meghan, but they rejected that option.

Then, prior to their move, Frogmore house underwent extensive remodeling into a private residence for just their family.  Prior to that, it had been divided into sleeping quarters for various employees.  The renovations cost more than $3 million, all from taxpayer funds.  The royal family has generally received 'grace and favor' residences. mainly for those who are performing public duties as working royals.  There is undoubtedly going to be some public outcry over Harry and Meghan having received a multimillion dollar residence, newly remodeled to their specifications, with the assumption that they were going to be full time working royals and now, just months later, they are apparently going to continue to live rent-free on the public's dime in this home despite no longer working full time.

While it is great that Harry and Meghan want to hang onto the sweet deal they've got going at Frogmore; I think the British public are rightfully going to be a bit put out about their money that has been spent and will be spent on maintaining this home for them to use part time.  I think this is the sort of thing that should've been sorted out before any announcement and that Harry and Meghan are rather naïve if they think it won't be a problem if they continue to use Frogmore House gratis.  

I think that the Palace, and Harry and Meghan, needed a strategy, probably one that involved somehow reimbursing the public for the big hunk of cash that was spent on their housing that could have been revealed along with the announcement of their change in status.

Edited by doodlebug
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I always wondered if Harry and William would be the pair to dismantle the monarchy in England. After the circus their life has been, I always thought they would be the end of it. 
 

Good for Harry and Meghan. I’m not surprised the Crown is scrambling. Monarchy always seemed so stifling and controlling. I hope Harry and Meghan find what they’re looking for.

Edited by SnoGirl
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1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

Frogmore House is actually in Windsor about half an hour outside of London.  It is on the grounds of Windsor Castle and belongs to the 'Crown' AKA the ruling monarch.  I would imagine that this is one of the details that the Queen and her staff wanted to get hashed out before the big announcement was made.

Recall that Harry and Meghan moved there just before Archie's birth at least in part because they wanted to get away from the constant press attention at Kensington Palace in London.  While there seems to be a lot of griping that the Queen didn't take Harry and Meghan's situation seriously; the fact that she helped set up their move to Frogmore indicates that she did indeed take their concerns into consideration.  It might not have been enough, maybe she should've done more; but it wasn't the Queen who wanted the move, Harry and Meghan did.  There was an empty apartment at Kensington next to the Cambridge family which was originally meant to be for Harry and Meghan, but they rejected that option.

Then, prior to their move, Frogmore house underwent extensive remodeling into a private residence for just their family.  Prior to that, it had been divided into sleeping quarters for various employees.  The renovations cost more than $3 million, all from taxpayer funds.  The royal family has generally received 'grace and favor' residences. mainly for those who are performing public duties as working royals.  There is undoubtedly going to be some public outcry over Harry and Meghan having received a multimillion dollar residence, newly remodeled to their specifications, with the assumption that they were going to be full time working royals and now, just months later, they are apparently going to continue to live rent-free on the public's dime in this home despite no longer working full time.

While it is great that Harry and Meghan want to hang onto the sweet deal they've got going at Frogmore; I think the British public are rightfully going to be a bit put out about their money that has been spent and will be spent on maintaining this home for them to use part time.  I think this is the sort of thing that should've been sorted out before any announcement and that Harry and Meghan are rather naïve if they think it won't be a problem if they continue to use Frogmore House gratis.  

I think that the Palace, and Harry and Meghan, needed a strategy, probably one that involved somehow reimbursing the public for the big hunk of cash that was spent on their housing that could have been revealed along with the announcement of their change in status.

The official website addresses a lot of this. In particular it says that the empty apartment at Kensington needed extensive renovations included the removal of asbestos which wouldn’t have been completed until late 2020. Also that renovations at Frogmore were already underway (because the Queen is required to maintain properties owned by the Crown) before they were offered use of the house. 

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1 hour ago, Pickles said:

The Queen is not going to comment on things

The Queen never comments on things, she has never given an interview, or publically stated her opinion on something.

54 minutes ago, Dani said:

As for their titles there is no reason why they wouldn’t keep them when Beatrice and Eugenie still have theirs and are not senior royals. 

They still have them until Charles becomes King. 

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1 minute ago, GaT said:

The Queen never comments on things, she has never given an interview, or publically stated her opinion on something.

They still have them until Charles becomes King. 

I don't see any reason for Charles to strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their titles. Despite their idiotic parents, they've grown up to be respectable young women. (With dreadful fashion sense)

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15 minutes ago, irisheyes said:

I don't see any reason for Charles to strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their titles. Despite their idiotic parents, they've grown up to be respectable young women. (With dreadful fashion sense)

Charles wants to cut back on the amount of people with Royal titles, including Beatrice and Eugenie, and that has been something Andrew has always fought against. 

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56 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Then, prior to their move, Frogmore house underwent extensive remodeling into a private residence for just their family.  Prior to that, it had been divided into sleeping quarters for various employees.  The renovations cost more than $3 million, all from taxpayer funds.  The royal family has generally received 'grace and favor' residences. mainly for those who are performing public duties as working royals.  There is undoubtedly going to be some public outcry over Harry and Meghan having received a multimillion dollar residence, newly remodeled to their specifications, with the assumption that they were going to be full time working royals and now, just months later, they are apparently going to continue to live rent-free on the public's dime in this home despite no longer working full time.

While it is great that Harry and Meghan want to hang onto the sweet deal they've got going at Frogmore; I think the British public are rightfully going to be a bit put out about their money that has been spent and will be spent on maintaining this home for them to use part time.  I think this is the sort of thing that should've been sorted out before any announcement and that Harry and Meghan are rather naïve if they think it won't be a problem if they continue to use Frogmore House gratis.  

I mean, I hope they realize that being "financially independent" means doing things like paying rent or buying their own home. They shouldn't be able to have it both ways.

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4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I mean, I hope they realize that being "financially independent" means doing things like paying rent or buying their own home. They shouldn't be able to have it both ways.

Both Harry and Meghan have money completely separate from any money doled out by Her Majesty.  She did not enter into the marriage broke, and he has money left to him by Diana.  Oddly enough,  they probably have not had to touch that money in their day-to-day lives as working royals.  If they invested that money well, they could easily afford a home in North America and maintain their own residence in England.   They won't be paying rent or even a mortgage. 

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6 hours ago, slf said:

According to the statement from the palace Meghan and Harry did notify the family, the talks were just in the early stages. The Sussexes seemed to feel that was enough while the rest didn't, is all.

The family apparently has known for a while.  But someone leaked the talks to The Sun just as someone leaked the Sussexes private vacation plans.  The Sussexes simply got ahead of the story before the tabloids had a chance to set the narrative.  

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39 minutes ago, GaT said:

The Queen never comments on things, she has never given an interview, or publically stated her opinion on something.

The Queen doesn't need words to state her opinion.  She can show support merely by actions. Like, say, taking a horseback ride or sitting in a car next to someone on a fine morning or afternoon.  

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5 minutes ago, MissAlmond said:

The family apparently has known for a while.  But someone leaked the talks to The Sun just as someone leaked the Sussexes private vacation plans.  The Sussexes simply got ahead of the story before the tabloids had a chance to set the narrative.  

Like others, I’m happy for Harry and Meghan. I knew after their interview in Africa that something was brewing and change was coming. Neither were pleased with what their lives had become under the scrutiny of the tabloids who have been relentlessly vicious with their lies and attacks.

Good for them in taking control of their lives and their narrative in the media. They will get a lot of support and a lot of hate over this, which I’m sure they weighed heavily when making this decision. Regarding the Queen, I have no doubt that she knew this was coming. From the Africa interview to the six week retreat from public life, the signs were there for the public and I’m certain discussions had happened behind the scenes with the Queen about this coming change. They (KP) wanted to control the narrative and unfortunately for them Harry and Meghan didn’t allow that by making the announcement about this change themselves. 

I’m sure this decision wasn’t made lightly, especially for Harry, whose relationship with his family will change dramatically. I wish them all the best as they embark upon this new journey in their lives. 
 

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Harry and Meghan can live just fine on their accrued wealth, if managed well.  (I'd like the opportunity to see if I could survive on $40+ million!) I can see them working for a charitable foundation or some type of service organization, such as the Red Cross. 

I find the outrage by certain members of the media to be amusing.  They are the primary reason this is happening, and I'm not just talking about the treatment of Meghan by the tabloids, as reprehensible as that has been.  Think back to Harry's childhood and how his mother did not hesitate to let him (and William) know how miserable she was, how persecuted she felt, and then think of the circumstances of Diana's death.  When considering all of this, the decision to step back is not surprising.  However, it won't stop the interest/lies/racism by the tabloid press or the interest by the general public about their lives, especially the British public who have a great affection for Harry.

IMO the person who could have been more publicly supportive is Charles.  In many ways, he's made it clear he was miserable as a young royal, that he felt his parents didn't understand him or provide the necessary love and support.  He should have been more aware of what Harry, and now Meghan, were going through, and doing more to help them.  

I can't help but wonder what the reaction would be if Charles's second child had been a girl.  Would there be the same type of reaction if a young woman, married to a non-royal/aristocrat, 6th in line for the throne, who had just started her family, wanted to step back from the life of a working royal?  I don't think so.  

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29 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Both Harry and Meghan have money completely separate from any money doled out by Her Majesty.  She did not enter into the marriage broke, and he has money left to him by Diana.  Oddly enough,  they probably have not had to touch that money in their day-to-day lives as working royals.  If they invested that money well, they could easily afford a home in North America and maintain their own residence in England.   They won't be paying rent or even a mortgage. 

I mean that's fine, but if they live rent-free at Frogmore then that's not being financially independent.

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58 minutes ago, Dani said:

The official website addresses a lot of this. In particular it says that the empty apartment at Kensington needed extensive renovations included the removal of asbestos which wouldn’t have been completed until late 2020. Also that renovations at Frogmore were already underway (because the Queen is required to maintain properties owned by the Crown) before they were offered use of the house. 

Of course, both properties needed to be maintained and kept updated.  However, while the Queen is 'required' to supervise this maintainance, it is the British public whose taxes pay for the work.  I presume that the asbestos will still need to be removed from Kensington Palace whether Harry and Meghan live there or not. From what I understand, Frogmore House was being updated at the time they decided to live there but it was not being updated as a single family home but rather as offices for employees with some sleeping quarters.  Somehow, I expect changing those plans in the middle of the project was an expensive proposition.

I also presume, that, while Frogmore House was in need of updating; much if not most, of the 3 million bucks spent on the renovation was geared specifically to the Sussex' wants and needs for their home and would not have been spent otherwise.  From what I understand, there is a gourmet kitchen with top of the line professional-type appliances which was installed due to Meghan's love of cooking and desire for the best kitchen available.  There was also supposedly a fully outfitted gym/yoga studio also designed per Harry and Meghan's specifications.  I would expect they chose all of the finishes in the home, all of the fixtures and furnishings and probably all of it in the high end pricewise.  As far as having to wait until late 2020 to move into the apartments at Kensington, it isn't like Harry and Meghan were homeless; they had a place to live, albeit a small one; the place had 2 bedrooms and was 1300 square feet.  Plenty of new parents have lived in far less space than that.

So, while both Kensington Palace and Frogmore House may have both been in need of renovations and, had they chosen to stay at Kensington (and there is no indication that either of them wanted to stay there nor that the extended timetable that caused them to change their minds); it would be disingenuous for anyone to assert that there wasn't very significant expenses incurred in providing Harry and Meghan with a residence, expenses that were unique to them and their desires and wouldn't have been incurred otherwise.

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The Yoko Oh No comparisons are going to kick into high gear.

In a bit of irony--or Fridge Brilliance, perhaps, the Beatles themselves say that the Trope Namer wasn't responsible for their breakup, that they'd been drifting apart for some time and she just happened to be there when it all finally imploded, leaving her to be the scapegoat.

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6 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Princess Diana left her estate in trust to her sons and they inherited when they turned 30.  Harry's share is estimated to be worth about $40 million.  I don't think we need to worry that Harry and Meghan are going to be wanting for much.

As has been pointed out to prove he's probably pretty wealthy, Harry hasn't really had to cover his expenses.  But along those lines, he has never had to cover all his expenses.  His homes, his travel, his clothing, his security, staff...all of this has mostly been covered. Does he realize how much his lifestyle costs?

40 million dollars seems like a lot of money but it can go quick. I have no doubt Meghan will be able to adjust to the change.  Even though he seems level-headed, I think it's going to be a bigger adjustment for Harry than he thinks.

3 hours ago, slf said:

That goes without saying. I find it hard to believe that Harry would release a statement about keeping their patronages and Frogmore if that weren't true and nothing about the palace's statement suggests Harry lied.

I think the statement that things are still early in discussion was the palace's "whoa Nelly." While people are applauding H&M taking control of the narrative, I actually think their genteel "fuck you" is going to make it harder for them to get things exactly as they would want.

For instance, their assertion that Frogmore was going to be renovated anyway so why don't they stay there was pretty tone deaf, IMO, when they're also saying they want to be financially independent. The 3 million reno wasn't all asbestos removal. Do they realize that being able to live rent free is not being financially independent from the crown? Will they pay rent?  Will they pay any staff?  Will they pay for any upkeep? They can afford a house but I don't think they can afford Frogmore without help unless it's completely independent from the state sponsored buildings.

I actually do think them staying at Frogmore was discussed but the messaging is going to make it harder.  If they truly only wanted to step back as William & Kate did when they had kids, then they should have let the Palace handle it.  The softer messaging wouldn't have been as satisfying but I think it would have conveyed the more PT nature of their involvement better than this message

6 hours ago, PepSinger said:

You know, this is a great point. The royal family had absolutely no idea how to handle unchecked racism from the British press and within their own family, and it took Meghan joining the family to really make that point clear.

The kind of racism they faced from the British media is pretty hard to combat because it's not the overt kind.  It's always hidden behind something. We discuss it a lot more in the US and it's still something that's so prevalent.

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People has an article on Harry & Meghan with info from their site which answers some stuff. This one goes to the financial independence

Quote

Do any other members of the Royal Family hold a title and earn an income?
Yes, there is precedent for this structure and applies to other current members of the Royal Family who support the monarch and also have full time jobs external to their commitment to the monarchy.

Do The Duke and Duchess of Sussex earn income?
No, under the current structure and financing arrangements, they are prohibited from earning any income in any form.

I don't know where the line is in which royals can earn money & which royals can't. Edward & Sophie both did, but I don't think Andrew did (& I doubt he would do anything so common as work for a living anyway, but his daughters did), & neither did Charles or Anne. Apparently the Duke & Duchess of Sussex can't, which I find strange.

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7 minutes ago, GaT said:

I don't know where the line is in which royals can earn money & which royals can't. Edward & Sophie both did, but I don't think Andrew did (& I doubt he would do anything so common as work for a living anyway, but his daughters did).

I mean, Andrew was in the Navy for like 20 years so he did once have a job.

I think the line is between "full time royal" and "part time royal."  When William and Harry were in the military, they earned salaries and were part time royals but later had to retire from active service in order to become full time royals.  I'm pretty sure Edward and Sophie were considered part time royals when they still had jobs and only became full time royals once they gave those jobs up.

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20 minutes ago, MissAlmond said:

And as for those taxpayers: Why aren’t the tabs asking on their behalf why The Queen allows property she’s charged to upkeep get in such dilapidated condition it takes millions, sometimes billions, to repair?  After all, it’s cheaper to do routine maintenance than to let property fall apart. Where’s the outrage over basically paying for a new transmission when regular oil changes would have done the job much cheaper.  I guess a discussion on the cost of regular, dull, yearly maintenance isn’t inflammatory enough to spread clickbait lies. 

Like people wouldn't complain anyway about money being spent? I can see the headlines asking why the Queen is using taxpayer money to fix up her home... Weren't people all up in arms after the Windsor Castle fire about paying to fix it? Some people seem to feel entitled about the royals and how they spend their time and money. Like people who tell a government employee, like a cop or postal worker, "My taxes pay your salary."

Not too surprised about Harry and Meghan. He's long had a rocky relationship with the press, and it's just gotten worse since he married Meghan. The role of racism is a part, but the press has long had him in the role of trouble-making rogue playboy and since he's settled down into marriage and fatherhood, they miss that and take it out on him and his family. They miss the Harry who would give them scandals and headlines. They always seem to want to have a "scandalous royal" who's "causing trouble" and Harry has rightly had enough.

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4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Of course, both properties needed to be maintained and kept updated.  However, while the Queen is 'required' to supervise this maintainance, it is the British public whose taxes pay for the work.  I presume that the asbestos will still need to be removed from Kensington Palace whether Harry and Meghan live there or not. From what I understand, Frogmore House was being updated at the time they decided to live there but it was not being updated as a single family home but rather as offices for employees with some sleeping quarters.  Somehow, I expect changing those plans in the middle of the project was an expensive proposition.

I also presume, that, while Frogmore House was in need of updating; much if not most, of the 3 million bucks spent on the renovation was geared specifically to the Sussex' wants and needs for their home and would not have been spent otherwise.  From what I understand, there is a gourmet kitchen with top of the line professional-type appliances which was installed due to Meghan's love of cooking and desire for the best kitchen available.  There was also supposedly a fully outfitted gym/yoga studio also designed per Harry and Meghan's specifications.  I would expect they chose all of the finishes in the home, all of the fixtures and furnishings and probably all of it in the high end pricewise.  As far as having to wait until late 2020 to move into the apartments at Kensington, it isn't like Harry and Meghan were homeless; they had a place to live, albeit a small one; the place had 2 bedrooms and was 1300 square feet.  Plenty of new parents have lived in far less space than that.

So, while both Kensington Palace and Frogmore House may have both been in need of renovations and, had they chosen to stay at Kensington (and there is no indication that either of them wanted to stay there nor that the extended timetable that caused them to change their minds); it would be disingenuous for anyone to assert that there wasn't very significant expenses incurred in providing Harry and Meghan with a residence, expenses that were unique to them and their desires and wouldn't have been incurred otherwise.

I don’t think it’s disingenuous at all. It has always been stated that Harry and Meghan paid for expenses related to furnishings, fixtures and fittings. They also claim that many of the reports about the renovation are outright lies including the yoga studio. It’s impossible to know how much the renonvations were originally going to cost but given the reported disrepair of Buckingham Palace I have no problem believing that the majority of the money went to structural issues.

If anything it’s the media’s claims that the renovation was paid for by taxpayer money is what I find to be disingenuous. The money came from the Sovereign Grant which is entirely funded by the revenue of the Crown Estate. So for example in 2018/19 the Crown Estate brought in £329 million which the Queen surrenders to the government and in return they put £82 million in the Sovereign Grant. That money varies yearly but is set based on a formula and it’s the Queen’s responsibility to use it to cover royal expenses. Harry and Meghan’s decision to move would have, at most, affected the allocation of that years funds. 

If there is a problem with the funding it’s a problem with the entire system and has nothing to do with Harry and Meghan. 

2 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

Like people wouldn't complain anyway about money being spent? I can see the headlines asking why the Queen is using taxpayer money to fix up her home... Weren't people all up in arms after the Windsor Castle fire about paying to fix it? Some people seem to feel entitled about the royals and how they spend their time and money. Like people who tell a government employee, like a cop or postal worker, "My taxes pay your salary."

She’s is the process of using the Sovereign Grant to fix up her home right now. There is a 10 year plan to renovate Buckingham Palace. The estimated cost is £369 million. They increased the yearly amount the Sovereign Grant gets to pay for it. 

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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

As has been pointed out to prove he's probably pretty wealthy, Harry hasn't really had to cover his expenses.  But along those lines, he has never had to cover all his expenses.  His homes, his travel, his clothing, his security, staff...all of this has mostly been covered. Does he realize how much his lifestyle costs?

40 million dollars seems like a lot of money but it can go quick. I have no doubt Meghan will be able to adjust to the change.  Even though he seems level-headed, I think it's going to be a bigger adjustment for Harry than he thinks.

Based on this section of their website I read it to be financial independence from the Sovereign Grant and the scrutiny that goes along with it. 95% of their official expenses are covered by Charles’ personal wealth from the Duchy of Cornwall. I believe he also covers the majority of William and Catherine’s official expenses. They can still receive a lot of family money and be considered financially independent from the Sovereign Grant. 

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Where does the other five percent come from?

As described above, the remaining five percent of funding for the Office of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex, covering costs associated with employing members of their official office, is received through the Sovereign Grant. During the course of 2020, The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have made the choice to step back as senior members of the Royal Family and no longer receive funding through the Sovereign Grant, thereby making them members of the Royal Family with financial independence. This phased approach will take time to transition in consultation with other senior members of the Royal Family, but Their Royal Highnesses are hopeful that this change is in the best interest for all and look forward to carrying out their duties to the monarch as well as their charitable work with financial autonomy.

 

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I'll just put this out here: considering that they opted to name their son plain Master Archie Montbatten-Windsor and NOT Lord. .  Montbatten-Windsor much less Prince Archie of Sussex, I can't say this comes as a surprise to me  that they'd decide to back away from the bulk of the Firm's business. Moreover, they DID give some warning shots in the South African interview that they had been dissed for such two-bit stuff that if things didn't improve they'd go for the deep blue sea (and I think the Duchess of Sussex has been willing to support and back the Duke in making whatever decision he wanted to make for their lives).  Yes, since the Duke of Sussex has a multimillion £ inheritance from the Princess of Wales in his own right AND the Duchess seemed to have put aside a good portion of her earnings as a performer, I think they COULD actually strike out on their own in virtually any part of the free world they might want to settle in - albeit they'd have to contend with  always having some kind of security detail for themselves and their young son. I'm glad they want to keep doing good works for others that both seem to draw great satisfaction in doing. And I'm very happy that this seems to have strengthened their bond with each other !

 All the above said, it seems to me that while they like DID tell Her Majesty (and the Prince of Wales) what they had in mind, my guess is that they jumped the gun a bit re making the announcement but  not having yet worked out the minute details with how this would be implemented. And, while I fully understand why the Sussexes decided to declare 'ENOUGH', I have to admit feeling sorry for the Prince of Wales (and the Duke of Cambridge) who likely were each counting on the Sussexes to take up a good part of the slack re duties now that the Duke of York is virtual plutonium.  I   hope this doesn't cause any ill feelings from their family. 

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7 hours ago, doodlebug said:

ome but rather as offices for employees with some sleeping quarters.  Somehow, I expect changing those plans

 

6 hours ago, MissAlmond said:

Supposedly being the operative word as, per the lawsuit, a yoga studio doesn’t exist.  Nor does an orangery, high end copper bathtub, expensive soundproof windows, or a tennis court.  Just as the same lawsuit states all fixtures and furnishings were paid for by a Harry and Meghan themselves.  So if they were expensive - which wouldn’t surprise me  - taxpayers dollars were not at work  

And as for those taxpayers: Why aren’t the tabs asking on their behalf why The Queen allows property she’s charged to upkeep get in such dilapidated condition it takes millions, sometimes billions, to repair?  After all, it’s cheaper to do routine maintenance than to let property fall apart. Where’s the outrage over basically paying for a new transmission when regular oil changes would have done the job much cheaper.  I guess a discussion on the cost of regular, dull, yearly maintenance isn’t inflammatory enough to spread clickbait lies. 

Thanks for clarifying this.  I haven’t followed the details of the lawsuit.

As for why the Queen ‘allowed’ the property to fall into disrepair; as others have explained, she has a budget and gets a fixed sum every year to maintain multiple properties, most of them hundreds of years old.  Frogmore House wasn’t a huge priority and therefore had to wait it’s turn, at least until the Sussex family wanted to move there.

The major fire at Windsor Castle that destroyed more than 100 rooms back in 1992 brought all of this to the forefront and actually lead to reforms in the way that property repairs are handled including the Queen paying taxes on the income generated by the royal estates and receiving a specific sum in return for the upkeep of those properties.

Repairs to Windsor cost something like $35 million and there was public criticism because the Queen was getting hundreds of millions in income annually for these properties while paying no taxes on that income while the taxpayers funded their upkeep.  It was a turning point and a crisis for the monarchy which I believe has sensitized the Queen and her staff about appearances when it comes to royal properties and their use.

The fire at Windsor also lead to Buckingham Palace being opened for tours while the Queen is away in the summer.  I’ve taken the tour and it is really spectacular and well worth the price, IMO.

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Giant Misfit

Don't get snippy in your responses with other members' opinions with which you do not agree.

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