S03.E10: shutdown -r

[Princess Sparkle]

Quote

Elliot tries to save Darlene, but things do not go as planned; Mr. Robot must decide whether to step up or step back.

[Mr. R0b0t]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!  So much to digest, but the number one question on my mind is about the final scene.  Isn't that the guy they broke out of prison/jail a while back in the first season?

[Mr. R0b0t]

Yup.  Guys name is Vera and his episode was called "eps1.5_br4ve-trave1er.asf" and tonight he told Darlene he was a brave traveler returning home or some such.  

Dom... she's right that Darlene put the things in motion to take her life as she knows it away, however Darlene/Elliot also represent her best chance to get it back as well.

White Rose must have some kinda magic macguffin going on because her lovers' dying devotion and Angela's undying devotion appear to be madness on the surface.

Kudos to all of those who suspected Angela was the Spawn of our favorite E-Corp CEO

I'm like Joey Bada$$ as an actor....an icy cool character

Saw today that Season 4 is a go and I can't wait!

Edited December 14, 2017 by Mr. R0b0t

[Milaxx]

Wowsers! That was an intense ep. I need to rewatch but here's a few fast & dirty impressions:

Everybody is crazy. Whiterose is delusional. Elliot is crazier than we thought. 

Shocked that Price is indeed Angela's father. At least for now.  The actors seemed to confirm this on The Verge aftershow. I'm just wondering if Price isn't lying in order to bring Angela back to reality and align her on his side for his clapback to Whiterose.

So sad that Grant appears to have gotten Irving's sloppy seconds.

Leon rules!

We got confirmation that most of the Mohammed episode never really happened. The whole Back to the future theme was Elliot's subconscious making him remember thee picture, much like the whole hot Carla burning the books in the red wagon & Elliot's naming his notebook Red Wheelbarrow was his subconscious reminding him of Red Wheelbarrow BBQ.

 

Excellent season! 

[mxc90]

Great episode!

Great job by everyone in their scenes (except Angela's crying).

Damn! I was so sure Dom and Darlene were onto Santiago and had a plan to expose him. Anyway, he got the death he deserved: A chop for every agent and innocent/not so innocent people he helped get killed.

I hope Dom finds a way to escape working for the Dark Army. Let's see someone fight back for a change.

Now that Elliot knows the truth, he and his father can make peace and work together to bring down White Rose.

At the end, I was worried Darlene was going to get killed in a drive by.

Were Irving and White Rose lovers?

Next season, I hope Vera and Elliot work together to bring down White Rose (he owes Elliot for breaking him out of jail) then Elliot kills him for being involved with Shayla's murder.

Edited December 14, 2017 by mxc90

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Everybody is crazy.…Elliot is crazier than we thought. 

Are you referring to Elliot having jumped out of the window rather than being pushed? Because I've thought for some time (at least this season) that was obvious.
But Irving, that guy's bonkers. I guess he's the Ghost of Dom's Christmas Future self.

 

If my middle daughter who lives in NYC (and pays NYC rent) sees this, she's going to be really mad about student loans coming back from the fictional abyss.

[possibilities]

I knew there was something off about the "pushed me out the window" story, but just saying Elliot suddenly went crazy and then jumped doesn't really answer for me what happened. What set him off? I just don't believe something like that would be random.

[green]

1 hour ago, Mr. R0b0t said:

Yup.  Guys name is Vera and his episode was called "eps1.5_br4ve-trave1er.asf" and tonight he told Darlene he was a brave traveler returning home or some such.

 

Thanks.  I had no idea who he was.  He shows up just after the woman Darlene was walking with says they needed a miracle or God to help or something.  I thought man God is looking  a little scary these days.  But if Elliot had killed him how is he alive?  Oh yeah, he is God.  Forgot.

Glad to see all of you calling E Corp Guy being Angela's father were right.  And the theory that Elliot had thrown himself out of the window.  Sorry the theory that Dom and Darlene were playing Santiago wasn't.  I like that version better than Irving the Crazed Axe Murderer.  (Well at least he took a brief moment to "center" himself before round 2 of his mutilation.

You know, Dom, everyone that Santiago helped kill in those 71 buildings had family and friends and were like you too.  If you take actions to kill even one other person to save your own family it still makes you no better than the super bads because you will have done to those innocent people what you did not want happening to your family.  And in the end these guys will just kill you and your family anyway.  (I hate when they have characters cave like). 

Also a little over the top break-up with Darlene.  You were the one that couldn't figure out Santiago had gone rogue even though the truth was staring you in the face so you should have stopped the 71 buildings going down.  And Darlene didn't know what an idealistic action would lead to.  So stop with the judging because if you become White Rose's pawn knowingly you will be worse than her because you know the score from the get go if you obey him.

So when Lover Boy blew his brains out after White Rose told him he was out that reminded me that we still haven't figured out why these people have no fear of dying.  Time and time again White Rose's army members show no hesitation to die on command.  Why?  (I do have a feeling Leon wouldn't nor Irving either).

Meanwhile Angela learns the truth.  Yawn.

I do like the repeat of Elliot's speech from Season 1, Episode 1 about the 1% of the 1% but that now he knows who they really are and he is going after them.  He and Mr Robot together that is.  I like those little hopefully moments in the show since usually it is bad guy wins this, bad guy wins that and good guys are always all sad and melancholy or are being played etc etc.

6 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I knew there was something off about the "pushed me out the window" story, but just saying Elliot suddenly went crazy and then jumped doesn't really answer for me what happened. What set him off? I just don't believe something like that would be random.

Well I imagine a big part of it was anger over his father slowly dying.  But the details would be nice to know.  His father did die pretty quickly after that because Elliot was still wearing the sling in the lobby of the movie theatre where his father collapsed and died.

[Cardie]

I found this episode underwhelming as a finale. I guess the show has trained me to expect a WTF moment when something is revealed to be not what it seems at all. I was glad to see Santiago chopped into little pieces for the scumbag he is but that was not exactly a surprise with his cover blown. The stuff about Angela being Price's daughter had been telegraphed this season and ever since Elliot threw himself off the Coney Island pier and blamed it on Mr. Robot I had doubted that his dad had thrown him out that window.

I still don't see how anyone ever brings WR down. She is so many steps ahead of everyone else. Reversing the 5/9 hack won't solve much, as the streetwalker with the sophisticated grasp of economic theory points out. The only suspense for me is whether WR is delusional about the time machine or onto something. Her true believers don't mind dying because she has convinced them that their deaths can be reversed just as Superman brings back Lois by reversing the Earth's rotation. I'm ready for next season to be the last.

[green]

33 minutes ago, Cardie said:

I found this episode underwhelming as a finale. I guess the show has trained me to expect a WTF moment when something is revealed to be not what it seems at all.  ...

So a guy coming back from the dead in the last scene wasn't that surprising enough for you, heh?

[Anela]

43 minutes ago, green said:

So a guy coming back from the dead in the last scene wasn't that surprising enough for you, heh?

Was that definitely present day? I wondered if it was a scene from the past, that we didn't see before. I'm not entirely with it tonight.

[green]

51 minutes ago, Anela said:

Was that definitely present day? I wondered if it was a scene from the past, that we didn't see before. I'm not entirely with it tonight.

It was present time because Darlene kept telling the street lady things would be getting better because she thought E Corp's data would be restored (the operative word here) real soon.

[Anela]

4 hours ago, green said:

It was present time because Darlene kept telling the street lady things would be getting better because she thought E Corp's data would be restored (the operative word here) real soon.

Thanks. I thought that guy was supposed to be dead. So a time travel thing either worked, or Elliot only thought he was dead. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by Anela

[hnygrl]

I don't know how I feel about this one. On the one hand, woah, poor Dom...yay, Mr. Robot and Elliot, together again. Dead Santiago...good.

Oh the other hand? WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT???? It was so all over the place. Nothing was really resolved. The only thing that was honestly resolved was Mr. Robot and Elliot on the same team. And Angela's Luke Skywalker moment. I gotta admit...when Philip did that deep sigh and said "I am your father" I chuckled...imagining Darth Vader...(ot, who's excited about the last jedi? I bought my ticket back in October!).

Dom Dom Dom...you just may be too stupid to live. Blaming Darlene for what was right in front of your nose for MONTHS is stupid. SHE did this. Nobody made her follow him. She did that all by her stupid self. Nobody made her screw Darlene, knowing she was (essentially still) a CI, knowing she was a hacker, knowing she was a "bad guy" but you did. Blaming Darlene made me hate her more. I get why she caved. Seeing that animal mutilate the corpse of what was once a human being you KNEW, and with every stroke blood spurts all over you while he tells you what he's gonna do to your nephew would make me cave too. 

But see, that's the thing that makes me go "What the hell IS THIS???" IT MAKES NO SENSE. There was NO REASON for it. If Dom and minded her business and went to the ADIC like she was supposed to do? Santiago would still have died I think because Irving was OVER it but DOM wouldn't be the new mole. Stupid stupid stupid and blaming Darlene for destroying her life when it was her own ignorance that did it. Not happy with that storyline at all.

And reversing the hack? Now Y'all know that ain't gonna work. Too many people have lost their homes, their jobs, their livelihoods for this to do any good for the common man. Only people this is gonna help are the rich. The regular guy? He lost his savings, his home, his job, his car, everything. Sure, his debt was wiped out but so was everything else. Now? HIS DEBT IS BACK. yay. Still don't have the house but now he's got the MORTGAGE on a house he hasn't lived in in like two years. Like the prostitute said. yay, my 80 thousand dollar student loan is back. whoopee.

What just happened here? Cause this was a hot mess of a finale and I just. Don't. Get it.

[truthaboutluv]

Kudos to all the posters who called Price being Angela's biological father and Elliot being the one who threw himself out of the window. So it seems like Elliot began disassociating as far back as his very early teens. Because the way Darlene described the incident, it's clear that Elliot was not present, which would also explain why he has no memory of it. As to Price being Angela's biological father - eh. I don't know, unless they do something major with Angela next season, I'll be fine to never see her again.

I know I was supposed to feel for her in realizing how White Rose completely manipulated her and played on her desperation to have her mother back but juxtaposing her scene with Price with the scene of Elliot and company literally fighting for their lives just made me less interested in Angela's pain and issues. Because while the others were fighting for their life, she was sitting in some cushy garden at Price's McMansion, despite the hand she had in 71 buildings being blown up and thousands of lives killed. I don't know if it's the actress or the writing for the character but I just struggle with caring much about her. 

Good riddance to Santiago. And what a way to go. I had a feeling Bobby Cannavale (seriously, what is that character's name) would kill him and save Dom only to force her to be beholden to the Dark Army. Sucks for her but I can't see her being a dutiful soldier, so I'm curious to see how long she lasts. I know the threats to her family were effective but based on her personality, there is no way Dom is going to stop trying to take down White Rose. In fact, that may be how as many viewers have speculated, she and Elliot may end up teaming up to work together. I know she really, really hates Darlene right now and I guess by extension Elliot but I have a feeling eventually she'll decide it's in her best interest to work with him. 

The second Leon got a message after Elliot made the offer of getting White Rose's stuff to the Congo, I knew he was going to shoot the Dark Army members instead of Elliot and Darlene. And man White Rose is one cold ass bitch. Can't say I'll miss associate guy, although his seemingly seething hatred for Elliot was interesting. Speaking of interesting, that exchange between him and Bobby Cannavale definitely got an eyebrow raise from me. Makes me even more curious about Cannavale's character and history with the Dark Army and specifically White Rose. By the way, I know he's a murdering nutjob like every other member of the Dark Army, but I can't help it, I do enjoy Leon. 

Not sure what to make of the ending. I guess Elliot's undoing the hack and as he said, making like it never happened, made things figuratively go back in time, bringing back crazy dude that I'm sure Elliot really does not want to ever see again and deal with. That said, after watching Elliot have to deal with a superpower evil force like White Rose, I'm having a hard time seeing crazy drug dude as this major threat. Admittedly he is crazy and those are sometimes the scariest villains because they're so unpredictable, but he just seems so amateur in comparison to White Rose and the Dark Army. That said, I have a feeling we're heading to a reveal that he's part of something a lot bigger than Elliot previously realized.

Ultimately, I enjoyed this season. I am curious what happened with Welleck and where they're going with him in Season 3. I've said it before but I definitely feel like that character is one that Esmail doesn't truly seem to have a handle on, in terms of his purpose. Or I may be wrong and there's a long drawn out reveal to come. 

 

Quote

Thanks. I thought that guy was supposed to be dead. So a time travel thing either worked, or Elliot only thought he was dead. 

I may be wrong but I don't think Elliot ever thought the guy was dead. After the guy manipulated Elliot into helping him break out of jail, he simply left, after letting Elliot know he did all that to save Shayla who'd been dead in the trunk the whole time. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[green]

9 hours ago, hnygrl said:

And reversing the hack? Now Y'all know that ain't gonna work. Too many people have lost their homes, their jobs, their livelihoods for this to do any good for the common man. Only people this is gonna help are the rich. The regular guy? He lost his savings, his home, his job, his car, everything. Sure, his debt was wiped out but so was everything else. Now? HIS DEBT IS BACK. yay. Still don't have the house but now he's got the MORTGAGE on a house he hasn't lived in in like two years. Like the prostitute said. yay, my 80 thousand dollar student loan is back. whoopee.

Yeah I don't get why it is suppose to be a good thing to restore Evil Corp's data either.  Like you said, the 99% of us are just made even worse.  Well unless you actually believe that giving giant corporations tons and tons more money (the debt records restored that they can keep collecting on now) will somehow make them benevolent overlords who will suddenly be moved to create zillions of high paying jobs for us peons.

First the evil corporations in general and Evil Corp in particular are destroying us.  So Elliot attacks Evil Corp but the economy tanks making it worse for "the rest of us" on top of how bad it already was.  (That is leaving aside the whole White Rose issue too).  Now the debts are back and we are screwed a third time.  Geez, Elliot, couldn't you have just thought this latest move through a bit more before you hit that SEND button.  Like consulted with your local economic expert in that street lady who knew the score better than you.

Edited December 15, 2017 by green

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

So it seems like Elliot began disassociating as far back as his very early teens

I think he was only eight when he went out the window.

 

1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

I may be wrong but I don't think Elliot ever thought the guy was dead. After the guy manipulated Elliot into helping him break out of jail, he simply left, after letting Elliot know he did all that to save Shayla who'd been dead in the trunk the whole time. 

That was my recollection, too. Thus I was not surprised to see Vera again (only I had to check recaps to recognize who it was as I'm not good at remembering faces.)

15 minutes ago, green said:

Like the prostitute said. yay, my 80 thousand dollar student loan is back. whoopee

At least she seems to have learned a lot for all that tuition. :)

[hnygrl]

When you have an 80 thousand dollar Economics Degree, and it's more fiscally sound to TURN TRICKS?

 

You know the economy is bad. Reversing the hack is just gonna screw it up even worse for the little guy who has been forced to sleep on the street and eat at soup kitchens for the last little while. You still don't have a job, still don't have a place to live, but your debt is back. I gotta watch again, but did we actually see Elliot hit SEND? Or did we just see him hit ENTER or the keyboard? Man I hope he thinks this through. His biggest flaw is that he's so impulsive.

[Neurochick]

I liked the finale, but Dom’s anger at Darlene made zero sense to me.  She put all the blame on Darlene.  What about Whiterose and Santiago and Irving?  They’re all okay but Darlene’s horrible?  Don’t get that at all.  Don was too stupid to see what Santiago was, amazing she got into the FBI in the first place.

So Leon is tighter with Whiterose than anybody?  Maybe Leon is Whiterose’s son or something.

[green]

5 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I liked the finale, but Dom’s anger at Darlene made zero sense to me.  She put all the blame on Darlene.  What about Whiterose and Santiago and Irving?  They’re all okay but Darlene’s horrible?  Don’t get that at all.  Don was too stupid to see what Santiago was, amazing she got into the FBI in the first place.

So Leon is tighter with Whiterose than anybody?  Maybe Leon is Whiterose’s son or something.

I think it is Irving who is tighter, not Leon.  Agree totally with the what the hell with Dom's sudden anger towards Darlene.

[Neurochick]

7 minutes ago, green said:

I think it is Irving who is tighter, not Leon.  Agree totally with the what the hell with Dom's sudden anger towards Darlene.

True, and maybe Leon is their surrogate son or something.  

Dom’s anger was just confusing.  Be pissed at Santiago, but no, she wants to blame it on a woman.  Ugh.

[ganesh]

21 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Damn! I was so sure Dom and Darlene were onto Santiago and had a plan to expose him. 

I was crossing my fingers. Dom is just not that clever I guess. I was hoping she'd get chopped. She's kind of boxed in now since they know all about her family and I don't see how she's useful anymore. Stop telling me she's "up and coming". I should have been able to see that throughout the season. 

Ugh. I can't stand post credit scenes. Just put them in the show. 

21 hours ago, Cardie said:

Reversing the 5/9 hack won't solve much, as the streetwalker with the sophisticated grasp of economic theory points out.

Clearly, undoing 5/9 won't do much at all, and as most pointed out, the 99% are going to be screwed worse. I very much hope to see the unintended consequences of this. Unless part of the reason is that it's meant to lull the 1% into a false sense of security and to take advantage of that. 

Glad my loans are paid off though. 

Much better finale than Outlander, although both involved some hacking. 

[Jaded Sapphire]

Totally on board with all the WTF at Dom being mad at Darlene. I also did a rewatch of the previous seasons and Vera was very much alive last we saw him.

 

Anybody else laugh their asses off at the axe-punctuated "Wheel! Of! Fortune!"? I mean it even sounded just like the opening to the actual show. No? Just me?

[catrice2]

Was Krista real, or all in his head? 

[truthaboutluv]

6 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Was Krista real, or all in his head? 

I see no evidence that Krista is not real. For one thing, this season we saw her discussing what Mr. Robot told her about being behind the 5-9 hack, to her colleague. Elliot went to prison for stealing the douchebag she was dating, dog. He figured out the guy was a douchebag by hacking him after finding out Krista was dating him, so he could make sure she wasn't dating a douchebag. We have seen her exposed to both Elliot and Mr. Robot. I guess anything is possible but as of right now, I do think she is real. At best I'd say she was real and maybe now he just imagines seeing her but she was definitely real. YMMV. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Angela's Luke Skywalker moment.

Heh. He totally delivered the line "I am your father" the Star Wars way.

 

 

7 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So it seems like Elliot began disassociating as far back as his very early teens. Because the way Darlene described the incident, it's clear that Elliot was not present, which would also explain why he has no memory of it

Good point. Maybe this was his liminal moment?

 

 

8 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Not sure what to make of the ending. I guess Elliot's undoing the hack and as he said, making like it never happened, made things figuratively go back in time, bringing back crazy dude that I'm sure Elliot really does not want to ever see again and deal with. That said, after watching Elliot have to deal with a superpower evil force like White Rose, I'm having a hard time seeing crazy drug dude as this major threat. Admittedly he is crazy and those are sometimes the scariest villains because they're so unpredictable, but he just seems so amateur in comparison to White Rose and the Dark Army. That said, I have a feeling we're heading to a reveal that he's part of something a lot bigger than Elliot previously realized.

 I honestly don't remember him (Vera? Did he die? If not for real, in Elliot's mind maybe?), but isn't bringing someone back from the dead exactly what Angela's been claiming all season that WR was going to do? 

 

 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

So Leon is tighter with Whiterose than anybody?  Maybe Leon is Whiterose’s son or something.

Maybe it's just because Leon is always so chill; it seems like WR would need someone like that.

 

 

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Dom’s anger was just confusing.  Be pissed at Santiago, but no, she wants to blame it on a woman.  Ugh.

Maybe Dom was projecting her anger at herself onto Darlene. I mean, watching someone get his heart cut out with an axe while your wrists are zip tied and his blood spurts on your face—while your family members are being threatened with the same fate if you don't switch allegiance—is going to trigger a cluster frack of shock and PTSD, if not full blown psychosis.

[Cardie]

Dom fell for Darlene romantically and thought that the seduction was sincere. That's why she irrationally dumps all over Darlene for what has happened; it's the most intimate kind of personal betrayal. She's blinded in the same way that WR's latest lover was.

[truthaboutluv]

12 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I honestly don't remember him (Vera? Did he die? If not for real, in Elliot's mind maybe?), but isn't bringing someone back from the dead exactly what Angela's been claiming all season that WR was going to do? 

Except that's just it, he wasn't dead. He just vanished after getting Elliot to break him out of prison. I'm actually surprised so many don't remember the character. Elliot trying to save Shayla, while pulling off an insane hack on a maximum prison, only to realize at the end it was all for nothing because Shayla had already been murdered, was probably the best episode of Season 1. Also, the reason dude came after Elliot in the first place, is because Elliot is the one that got him arrested and he knew it.

[green]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Except that's just it, he wasn't dead. He just vanished after getting Elliot to break him out of prison. I'm actually surprised so many don't remember the character. Elliot trying to save Shayla, while pulling off an insane hack on a maximum prison, only to realize at the end it was all for nothing because Shayla had already been murdered, was probably the best episode of Season 1. Also, the reason dude came after Elliot in the first place, is because Elliot is the one that got him arrested and he knew it.

I remember the character as in the girl next door's former boyfriend and a drug dealer who ends up killing the young woman after Elliot helped spring him from prison in order to try and save that girl's life.  But I certainly did not remember the name or what he looked like or whether he died or was alive.  It has been like 2 years since I saw him on my TV screen after all.  If I hadn't come to this board I still wouldn't know who he was.

For that matter I can't remember what Tyrell's wife looked like or her name either.  I can follow story lines but not the stuff like names or what people long off the show looked like.  Heck I won't remember what Santiago looked like by next year or what is name was other than "evil FBI dude who got the ax" (literally).

Edited December 15, 2017 by green

[AngelKitty]

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe this was his liminal moment

I love it when people make me look things up.

4 hours ago, green said:

I can follow story lines but not the stuff like names or what people long off the show looked like. 

That's one of the reasons I come to these forums: to get clarification on things I don't know.

 

7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe Dom was projecting her anger at herself onto Darlene.

This is probably true. She knows she shouldn't have gotten involved with Darlene in the first place. Darlene can't be trusted and she should have known something was up as soon as Darlene started making moves on her. In fact, I thought she was playing Darlene until they actually had sex.

As for Elliot's trip out the window, I think Mr. Robot pushed him out the window, but not his dad. So, yes, he's had this condition since he was a young boy. After seeing flashbacks to the real Dad, I realized he could never have pushed his son out a second story window. He was not an abusive man.

Knowing that undoing the hack only makes things worse for the regular people, I can't understand why Elliot thought it was a good idea.

[diebartdie]

On 12/13/2017 at 11:38 PM, Mr. R0b0t said:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!  So much to digest, but the number one question on my mind is about the final scene.  Isn't that the guy they broke out of prison/jail a while back in the first season?

 

On 12/14/2017 at 4:10 AM, green said:

It was present time because Darlene kept telling the street lady things would be getting better because she thought E Corp's data would be restored (the operative word here) real soon.

When did these things happen? I dont remember either of these things happening in the episode and I wasnt even all that stoned! I dont remember a street walking economics professor either!

Edited December 15, 2017 by diebartdie
tis the season to do edits, fa la la la la

[Jaded Sapphire]

1 hour ago, diebartdie said:

 

When did these things happen? I dont remember either of these things happening in the episode and I wasnt even all that stoned! I dont remember a street walking economics professor either!

It was immediately after the credits. If you turned off the show as the credits rolled then you definitely missed it.

[Folk]

I suspect Dom was put on 9/5 by Santiago because of her inexperience. She has talent, but isn't a full jedi yet. That was pretty much on display during 2 seasons worth of Dom screw ups. Now she has been turned to the darkside by DA.

My guess Vera's return suggests a "3rd party" is coming between the WR/DR war vs the Alderson's which has now erupted into a cold war.

[ganesh]

The DA might have buyer's remorse. It's not like Dom is suddenly competent. 

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

As for Elliot's trip out the window, I think Mr. Robot pushed him out the window, but not his dad

Right! So does he now realize that?

[candle96]

23 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Except that's just it, he wasn't dead. He just vanished after getting Elliot to break him out of prison. I'm actually surprised so many don't remember the character. Elliot trying to save Shayla, while pulling off an insane hack on a maximum prison, only to realize at the end it was all for nothing because Shayla had already been murdered, was probably the best episode of Season 1. Also, the reason dude came after Elliot in the first place, is because Elliot is the one that got him arrested and he knew it.

Thanks for this. I definitely remember that episode (that was the episode that was my official "OMG, I love this show." moment), and I vaguely remember the character, but I couldn't recall what he looked like at all. So I was a little confused when they showed his face at the end here. 

[green]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:46 AM, diebartdie said:

 

When did these things happen? I dont remember either of these things happening in the episode and I wasnt even all that stoned! I dont remember a street walking economics professor either!

 

On 12/15/2017 at 0:56 PM, Jaded Sapphire said:

It was immediately after the credits. If you turned off the show as the credits rolled then you definitely missed it.

Yeah it was put right after the credits like an epilogue or maybe like a teaser thing for Season 4 I suppose.  But the big reveal that Vera is it (that is his last name I take it) at the end of the teaser wasn't that big because most of us apparently didn't remember him, heh.

The summary of that scene is that Darlene is walking down the street towards Elliot's apt in the dark of night and is grateful she can share the walk with someone else since the neighborhood is sketchy.  The other person is someone she just met.  A strong and confident looking street walker. 

They discuss how bad things are now and the woman is depressed about her economic situation and Darlene, not wanting to come out and tell her she knows about the reverse hack, just keeps telling her that she (Darlene) has a feeling things will change real soon and there was rumor that E Corp might be able to recover their data from the 5/9 hack etc.  That doesn't cause the woman to rejoice.  She correctly points out that they still are in a depression and the recovered data just means a student loan of $80,000 she thought she was at least free of will now be back as well.

The street walker isn't identified as an economics professor as I recall.  More a running joke here I think because she knows basic economics better than Elliot or Darlene.  Just a college educated woman (the $80,000 debt) probably taken to the streets to earn a living in this depression.  Her economic points are common sense.  A way to point out to the viewer the fallacy of a reverse hack making everything sunshine and unicorns again.

She and Darlene arrive at Elliot's building and she jokes that maybe Darlene's brother needs a lay.  She then turns to go and mentions that the only thing that could help the situation now was nothing short of a real miracle.

As she leaves, Vera and three of his gang members come out of the shadows approaching Elliot's building and Darlene, who seems to know him immediately (unlike me, heh), asks him what he wants. Vera pulls down his hoodie so we get a clear view of his face (which still didn't help me recognize him, hah) and says something about the brave traveler returning I didn't really catch.  But someone here mentioned brave traveler was the title of the episode where he escaped prison in Season 1.  At that point the episode abruptly ends.

The fact that the street walker mentioning that the only thing that would help them at this point was a real miracle with Vera showing up within two seconds probably means he could end up a major player next season.  Because Esmail didn't juxtaposition the street walker's last line with Vera stepping out of the shadows the second she turned and walked off for nothing.

Edited December 17, 2017 by green

[diebartdie]

Thanks so much Green!

[scrb]

Santiago got a lot of people killed but he may be as much of a victim as Dom has just become.  He alluded to the DA holding something over him.  Probably threatened his beloved mother and anyone else he may have held dear to him.

Irving just kind of exploded out of nowhere.  Maybe I missed it but did they hint that he could be so brutal and psycho, especially get his hands dirty?

I always wonder about the motivations of these American bad guys who work for foreign villains who perpetrate horrible things on other Americans -- like those on 24 or Homeland.  But they gave Irving and Leon distinctive personalities, didn't depict them as cartoon villains.  

Irving had to do things with WR that he's glad are behind him.  So why does he work for WR?  Doesn't seem to be money as he lives very modestly and he's treating himself to some cheesy Caribbean resort that any schlub with middle income can afford -- hardly seems like a big payoff for having been complicit in a big global criminal conspiracy.

[queenanne]

On 12/14/2017 at 1:12 AM, shapeshifter said:

Are you referring to Elliot having jumped out of the window rather than being pushed? Because I've thought for some time (at least this season) that was obvious.

 

On 12/14/2017 at 1:35 AM, green said:

So when Lover Boy blew his brains out after White Rose told him he was out that reminded me that we still haven't figured out why these people have no fear of dying.  Time and time again White Rose's army members show no hesitation to die on command.  Why?  (I do have a feeling Leon wouldn't nor Irving either).

Yes, some types of mental illness come with hallucinations and long form delusions (I am no psychiatrist and forget what kind, but definitely some).  I always assumed that was the type of generic Hollywood mental illness that Elliot had.  I've also thought/agreed for some time that it seems he was clearly mistaken, because "Elliot's dad" in the regular main, doesn't seem crazy or mean, or like his brain was eaten into Swiss cheese by whatever biological stressor it was that might cause a formerly loving father to randomly flip out and toss their kid out a window.  I can see how they've offered enough tangential mystery that someone could think the opposite, but it's not like it also hasn't been clearly established that Elliot believes some things that are made up entirely out of whole cloth in his head.

Which leads me to my question... Sam Esmail is kind of alluding to the fact that he thinks that Elliot's "third level"/mystery virus being unleashed, will literally "un-do" everything; as in on the level of "causing the 71 buildings to re-erect themselves and the dead to come back to life", right?  Re-winding history like Angela with her TiVo button a week or so ago?  I wouldn't think that if it weren't for the fact that Angela seems so trusting and weird-conspirator about the rewind button and footage; plus the whole White Rose and death thing...  I keep having the nagging suspicion that when they have characters say, "fix/un-do everything", they mean... everything, largely because nobody has ever said aloud, "Yo Elliot!  You're crackers!  How can you "fix" thousands of people dying and dozens of buildings collapsing?  You can't, homeboy!"   

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, queenanne said:

Which leads me to my question... Sam Esmail is kind of alluding to the fact that he thinks that Elliot's "third level"/mystery virus being unleashed, will literally "un-do" everything; as in on the level of "causing the 71 buildings to re-erect themselves and the dead to come back to life", right?  Re-winding history like Angela with her TiVo button a week or so ago? 

It didn't occur to me that Elliot thought undoing the 5/9 hack would also undo the explosion of the 71 buildings. He just seems to have the multiple personality disorder problem, not the belief in supernatural physics like Angela or her mother. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by shapeshifter
stray preposition

[atlantaloves]

Shapeshifter, I agree with you, Elliot does have MPD, he's not on Team Angela. Damn, this show is wonderful. I wish the Golden Globes had shown Rami a little love.  Did they remember Bobby C? I forget.  His Irving says more with one little "huh uh" than White Rose could ever say in her big ole bathtub.  (Not that I don't love BD Wong as White Rose, man, don't get me wrong, he's fabulous). ?

[possibilities]

I watched the repeat and they didn't re-air the post-credits scene with Darlene and the street walker, etc. Hmmph.

Upthread it was said that we got confirmation that none of the stuff with Trenton's brother really happened-- I missed that. Where in the episode was that clarified?

RE why some people participate, I suspect some are threatened, like Dom. Some are delusional like Angela. Some like being part of something, anything, and hope for the power to animate their lives. I would like to know Leon's story.

[Cardie]

If I had to guess. I would say that Leon is pure mercenary and WR pays him very well, knowing that neither threats nor promises of a new life would persuade him to die for the cause but also knowing that he will never betray WR if WR sticks to the terms of their deal.

[shapeshifter]

Hardly worth mentioning, but the episode title "shutdown -r" (or "shutdown-r;" I've seen it both ways) is either a command to reboot the remote computers (I think running Linux) or to restore them to an earlier state—presumably with some additional commands. I wish there was a programmer posting here.

I appreciate that the hatchet job (who'm I kidding? It's a freakin' axe, not a little ol' hatchet) was mostly off screen, but it still ups the violence quotient to an unacceptable level for a lot of would-be viewers. But then I guess it's not any worse than Fight Club. And I guess it was earned. It's not like it was just added for the sake of reaching some sort of Mature Audience rating.

 

 

ON DECEMBER 17, 2017 AT 6:25 PM, POSSIBILITIES SAID:

I watched the repeat and they didn't re-air the post-credits scene with Darlene and the street walker, etc. Hmmph.

Found it (for now):

Edited December 19, 2017 by shapeshifter

[scrb]

Shutdown -r (with space) is a unix shell command to reboot the system.

 

Without the -r, it just shuts down, powers it down, IIRC.

 

Funny thing is, a lot of the stuff Elliott types are unique and descriptive like <something>_hack.  There are no standard commands with such names so those would be shell scripts or maybe C programs that he would have wrote to execute a series of commands or executing with different options.

Although he usually hacks bad people, especially in season 1, he uses techniques such as social engineering or when he infected malware on the Dark Army computers, he's using methods that "black hat hackers" use to rip people off.

Some hackers buy stolen accounts or zero day exploits on the black market to do other hacks.

Of course Elliott is portrayed as a good guy who only takes advantage of bad guys but what he does is highly intrusive.

Good hackers or "white hats" get into the business of helping to fight off hackers or try to find vulnerabilities in systems and report them to the companies which sell the vulnerable products.  They can make good money bounty-hunting such vulnerabilities.

Edited December 19, 2017 by scrb

[AngelKitty]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 7:02 PM, shapeshifter said:

Right! So does he now realize that?

I think he's just starting to and I hope they address this next season.

 

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 11:35 AM, queenanne said:

Sam Esmail is kind of alluding to the fact that he thinks that Elliot's "third level"/mystery virus being unleashed, will literally "un-do" everything; as in on the level of "causing the 71 buildings to re-erect themselves and the dead to come back to life", right? 

I don't think Elliot believes that. It's just Angela and White Rose and her Dark Army who seem to believe there is going to be some sort of re-set. I'm not sure what Elliot thought he would accomplish.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, iheartET said:

2) That ax scene was extremely brutal and disgusting!

…

4) Bobby Cannavle (Irving) is a good actor. I like his character and he plays it well. But that ax scene was a NO for me

I totally agree with both of these—horrifying, and on another show would make me quit that show.
And yet we never saw any mutilation—just Cannavale's intense focus and resolve in what he was doing, and Gummer's reactions (with a few flecks of blood to indicate her proximity to what her character had witnessed).
And here it is not just gratuitous violence, but rather serves to completely change the motives of the effected character (Dom).

 

6 HOURS AGO, IHEARTET SAID:

10) Christian (Mr. R) has really nice teeth

Hah! I never noticed. I'll have to check them out.

[FoundTime]

On ‎12‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 12:09 AM, shapeshifter said:

I appreciate that the hatchet job (who'm I kidding? It's a freakin' axe, not a little ol' hatchet) was mostly off screen, but it still ups the violence quotient to an unacceptable level for a lot of would-be viewers. But then I guess it's not any worse than Fight Club. And I guess it was earned. It's not like it was just added for the sake of reaching some sort of Mature Audience rating.

 

Also a lot of use of the F-word -- so we're basically getting R-rated content on the USA Network ;-)

Anyone notice all the Putin posters in the after-credits street scene? Heh.

Thanks to everyone who posted about Vera and the "Brave Traveler" ep. I would never have remembered that otherwise.

Looking forward to returning here for S4!

[Donder]

The hatchet scene was one of the best of the season. Very subtle.