S05.E04: A Life Earned

[paigow]

Coulson and the team discover their captors' true intentions.

[SnoGirl]

Fitz! Fitz in SPACE! I am SO excited! Did Hunter come too?? Please say Hunter is in Space too. 

Finally some movement on stories. Coulson recognizing people are disappearing. But still not learning from it bc May is gone.

I no longer like that Gemma is being silenced by the Kree. She’s no help, she cant hear useful information to help anyone. She’s on a leash and its killing me.

The baby was a surprise. But I liked the storyline for Mack and YoYo. Grieving for a child lost twice. I wish we could have kept Hope.

I hope Daisy made a plan with the Inhumans for a rebellion. Wonder if they’ll wreck the station and have to take refuge on Earth. I hope Fitz has a plan to get them back!

I cant wait to see the adventures of Fitz and Hunter next week. Fitz has quite the beard! Cant wait!

[AimingforYoko]

Not fair leaving us in the dark as to May's fate. On the other hand Ming-Na's earned the rest, she's been a trooper.

[SnoGirl]

32 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Not fair leaving us in the dark as to May's fate. On the other hand Ming-Na's earned the rest, she's been a trooper.

Did you see the female Kree wiped off her steel weapons? I bet they wanted us to think it was blood. Im betting May escaped. Okay, Im hoping she escaped or is trapped on a different floor.

Edited December 16, 2017 by SnoGirl
Gah! Wording

[AimingforYoko]

2 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Did you see the female Kree wiped off her balls?

Uh, PHRASING!

[SnoGirl]

Can we please name the steel balls? This is getting ridiculous. Why couldnt it have been daggers? Or cubes?

[CaptainTightpants]

Coulson gets all the best lines. "Super. And the vibe goes full dystopian!" A profoundly accurate description of the situation.  

I'm also glad that Deke got punched so many times, that was satisfying. And having his lying mouth welded into his cell is also pretty awesome. 

Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiitz!!!!! Can't wait for next week. And he makes a much better Starlord than Deke does.

[Jediknight]

Finally, it took till the end of the 4th episode, but the team got a win with Fitz showing up.  This season has just been so void of hope, and depressing, finally there's a light at the end of the tunnel.  I know they wanted to set this world up as horrible, but the Framework was horrible, and in the first full episode we got Ward revealing he works for the Resistance, and Coulson saying "Daisy?".  But Fitz being back, and next week he's going to wreck shit, this is going to be awesome.

I do like that they continue the continuity that Mack hates violence.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Jediknight

[Lobsel Vith]

5 minutes ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Coulson gets all the best lines. "Super. And the vibe goes full dystopian!" A profoundly accurate description of the situation.  

I'm also glad that Deke got punched so many times, that was satisfying. And having his lying mouth welded into his cell is also pretty awesome. 

Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiitz!!!!! Can't wait for next week. And he makes a much better Starlord than Deke does.

I am so glad that Coulson didn't buy Deke's excuse. I was concerned they were going to try and pull a 'Framework Ward' with Deke. Admittedly, I don't think anyone is remotely surprised that he used a bad childhood as an excuse, and I'm guessing the writers knew that. I wonder if we'll see more of Tess once we return to the Lighthouse.

Next week should provide some levity. Things are pretty dark so far (including literally).

[MisterGlass]

I knew it was Fitz the moment he spoke under that mask.  I wonder how much time has passed for him.  I have missed Fitz and Hunter, and look forward to their team up!  I wonder how long a break they will take after it.

They have really piled on both May and Mac.  Mac's musings on having to grieve twice were touching.

I'm starting to wonder if the female Kree is also artificially mute.  Every time she sends those orbs at someone all I can think of is Magneto.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, SnoGirl said:

Can we please name the steel balls? This is getting ridiculous. Why couldnt it have been daggers? Or cubes?

Let's see, one ball can be named Ben and the other named Wa.

I noticed the blue lady had a scar on her face, but I guess Cassius let that one slide.

[Lantern7]

This week: the Kree's inhumanity continues, as they prove to be bigger assholes than we had thought. Also, they love to sell Inhumans off. Funny thing . . . if the Disney purchase of Fox had happened years ago, the Inhumans would have been mutants, Daisy would have been a mutant from the start like in the comics, and Inhumans would never have happened. Sad, right? I mean, at least we got Quake and Yo-Yo, even though neither of them are as cute as Lockjaw.

2 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

I no longer like that Gemma is being silenced by the Kree. She’s no help, she cant hear useful information to help anyone. She’s on a leash and its killing me.

I hope this bite Kasius in the ass. I'm thinking Gemma can think for herself even when her ears are muted. Unless the tone we hear works on her and distracts her. Still, I would think she would have lots of quiet time to work out a plan. And then vengeance. Delicious, delicious vengeance. Or she can learn to read lips. I don't think she came to the station an expert, but I bet she can learn on her own.

Speaking of plans, I hope Fitz has one. He's smart, but the Kree have a headstart of indeterminable length and they have a prophecy about SHIELD coming back. As far as unfair advantages go, that's about an 7 out of 10, and rising.

How often do the actors break into giggles anytime Daisy is referred to as "Destroyer of Worlds"? That's a title that can't be taken seriously, even if it's Thanos.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

Did you see the female Kree wiped off her steel weapons? I bet they wanted us to think it was blood. Im betting May escaped. Okay, Im hoping she escaped or is trapped on a different floor.

It just made me think that Sinara just recruited May for her coup attempt

[Lobsel Vith]

13 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Speaking of plans, I hope Fitz has one. He's smart, but the Kree have a headstart of indeterminable length and they have a prophecy about SHIELD coming back. As far as unfair advantages go, that's about an 7 out of 10, and rising.

I suspect the "prophecy" may have originated with Fitz. If he was able to leave a 'note' for the team that he was working on the issue (the one on the postcard Virgil had), then I suspect he might have been in a position to do things to "prepare" before the team's arrival, especially since 'time travel' (or traveling to a parallel universe that's in a different point in time) allows him to commit certain actions that aren't in a linear fashion (given the nature of time travel).

[rmontro]

I can't believe this is the fourth episode already, seems like this space story just got started.  I guess it's because they ran the first two episodes back to back.

Didn't really think they advanced the plot much this week, aside from the Fitz reveal at the end, that was pretty exciting.

[paigow]

Fitz does not "belong" in this future....his appearance means this Fitz must die to repair the timeline....

[misstwpherecool]

9 hours ago, Raja said:

It just made me think that Sinara just recruited May for her coup attempt

I hope they don't pull a time travel gimmick of knocking her off then all is well when they return to the past. But now we're into paradoxes.

 Didn't one ball get lost in the fight. Could that be how May escaped using that as a weapon.

The coup sounds plausible. Hope that's how it turns out.

[sjohnson]

Either the happy ending is the team "killing" everybody when they escape the evil future, then return Daisy to the past forewarned against destroying the Earth, leaving a presumably better future to play out.

Or, they escape, come back. They think they'll improve things, but in the end Daisy destroys the Earth as fated.  Or they are left wondering if they are were their own future (and Daisy is the ultimate supervillain) or if they were in an alternate timeline, and evil Daisy was someone else in that other timeline. 

Or they save the humans of an alternate timeline by killing Kasius, after which good Daisy from another timeline undoes the work of evil Daisy by using her powers to push all the pieces back together, or something along those lines. Or something equally absurd.

The thing is, the only one of these that appears to be dramatically interesting, as in the characters make significant choices without help from the script for a happy ending, is the first one...which isn't terribly happy. 

Coulson is being stupid. If Deke were lying about everything and just in it for profit, he would already have sold them all, not just Daisy. If Coulson was genuinely insightful, rather than supercool, he would know that Quake, the Destroyer of Worlds, running about like the maniac history said she was, was lucky not to have Deke stab her in the back...which alone suggests that Deke isn't what he thinks. 

Saving humanity doesn't mean killing Kasius, who isn't the real problem, which is lack of resources. 

[Quark]

Another fabulous episode. Can't wait to see what Fitz has planned up his sleeve.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Quark said:

Another fabulous episode. Can't wait to see what Fitz has planned up his sleeve.

He looks like he has some "Leopold" left in him.

[tennisgurl]

Fitz is back! Oh thank you space Jesus! Looks like he is channeling Leopold for now, but I am 100% certain that he has a plan to help save the day. I just want him and Gemma to finally get to spend some time together. I mean, it would be nice if that time was spent on a beach or watching movies or something, but I`m sure they'll take what they can get. 

At last, a glimmer of hope in this festival of sadness. At least, I hope it is. Fitz is smart and clearly has some kind of connections or a plan, but those stupid asshole Kree are smart too, and they hold almost all of the cards here. I really hope they end this arc either being beat down by the humans, or Daisy and company goes back to the past and fixes things so none of this happens. Or both. Both is good. I especially Hope Gemma gets some sweet, sweet vengeance on the creepy Kree who has her on a leash. He is vastly underestimating her and her ingenuity. Especially when she finds out Fitz is here. 

Poor Mack. I really do wish we could kept Hope around. Granted, I wouldn't want her here in creepy alien dystonia world, but maybe she could be home with a sitter? 

I know that this is a dark story line and a dystopia and all that, but does it have to literally be so dang dark? Could someone turn on a freaking light, please? Why is it that TV shows think that making it so that you cant see anything makes it more dramatic? Its already dramatic, even with proper lighting! 

[Terrafamilia]

3 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Coulson is being stupid. If Deke were lying about everything and just in it for profit, he would already have sold them all, not just Daisy. If Coulson was genuinely insightful, rather than supercool, he would know that Quake, the Destroyer of Worlds, running about like the maniac history said she was, was lucky not to have Deke stab her in the back...which alone suggests that Deke isn't what he thinks. 

I'm find myself siding with Deke. I mean, seriously, Daisy was just going to storm in and grab Jemma and ... then what? Sure, one can expect plans to go off the rails, but she had no plan whatsoever.

[Raja]

34 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

I'm find myself siding with Deke. I mean, seriously, Daisy was just going to storm in and grab Jemma and ... then what? Sure, one can expect plans to go off the rails, but she had no plan whatsoever.

Like the first phases had someone loss an arm like Luke Skywalker did Deke seems to have the same role in things in The Empire Strikes Back.

[blueray]

So good to see Fitz again. I hope he is there to help them and of course we see how he got there.

I hope that May is okay, but the fact they didn't show her after the fight, makes me think she got away. And Deke while annoying, did have a point that Daisy didn't have a plan when rescuing Simmons. I don't really like his character, I do like Tess though. Where was she this episode?

[MisterGlass]

16 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I noticed the blue lady had a scar on her face, but I guess Cassius let that one slide.

The humans are property, and disposable.  He literally sells them.  His lieutenant has some rights and expectations.

[Teitr Styrr]

20 hours ago, Raja said:

It just made me think that Sinara just recruited May for her coup attempt

As soon as they didn't show May, and the Kree lady indicated that she took care of her, I thought the Kree lady was helping them. I hope so, because I kinda dig her. Man, Mack and YoYo hit me in the feels tonight. I think Deke was telling the truth. But like Coulson, I'm not sure. Oh, hi Fitz!

[thuganomics85]

Fitz has finally arrived, so all should finally be right in the world!  Or, err, this dystopian space station, I guess.

Melinda vs. Sinara was pretty good, although I can only imagine how different it would have gone if Melinda was at 100%.  I obviously doubt Melinda's done for, so either she managed to escape and Sinara is hiding it or Sinara has other plans for her that Kasius is unaware of.  Hmm....

Glad they remembered what happened to Mack in the Framework and how he really should not be fully recovered over losing Hope again.  I'm glad he seems to be aware of this, but I do worry for him, especially Grill clearly wanting to use him more as muscle.  Hopefully Yo-Yo will make sure he doesn't go down a very dark and violent path.

Say what you will about how shifty he is, but Deke sure walked off that knife wound pretty quickly!

Not sure if I fully trust this new Inhuman telepath or not.

I do hope Simmons doesn't remain Kasius' prisoner for too long.  Missing her with the rest of the cast, although she at least go to exchange a few looks with Daisy this time.

[AngelKitty]

I have to admit I was surprised to see Fitz. I was not expecting to see him in the future. I thought we would only see him in the past, working to help them in the future. Of course we don't know if this is our Fitz. It could be a descendant.

[tallykat]

I would think that in a dystopian future where infants are a commodity that is highly sought after, you wouldn’t just leave it unprotected in a lab. Where are the infants-in-progress? Seems if creating Inhumans creates wealth, you’d be creating a whole slew of them. But I guess you then need the motivation of scarcity and reward to have the younguns willing to do what needs to be done. 

I’m not sure if I knew that Mac was threatening to throw a baby in the grinder the first time he said it but rewatching it, it really did sound horrifying to listen to his threats. And then heartbreaking to hear him talk about Hope. She’s not Fake Hope! Keep the beautiful memories of the Framework and dump the rest!

[paigow]

4 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

 Of course we don't know if this is our Fitz. It could be a descendant.

It is a Fitzbot, he built an improved AIDA in his own image...a Terminator from the past to save the future....

[DayOwl]

I'm puzzled over something that happened in this episode. I'm wondering if any of you noticed it and can explain what was going on, because I couldn't figure it out. Sinara and her goons were stalking through the human marketplace and she saw a guy with a soldering gun (or something similar). She grabbed it from him and took it. Back in Kasius's quarters, Jemma was fetching Kasius a drink from a pitcher of water. She was staring into the glass like she was spacing out. Sinara came over to her, grabbed her roughly (the glass smashing in the process), threw her to the ground, and dropped the soldering gun on the ground in front of her in an accusatory way. Why? It wasn't Jemma's soldering gun. Kasius just looked at Jemma like he was waiting for her to do something, but she didn't. I feel like that scene was supposed to mean something, but I didn't understand what.

[blueray]

I was confused by that too. She was just getting the water he told her to get. I'm not sure why she attacked Jemma.

[SnoGirl]

On 12/16/2017 at 3:09 PM, Raja said:

Like the first phases had someone loss an arm like Luke Skywalker did Deke seems to have the same role in things in The Empire Strikes Back.

Okay, let’s play this game. Deke is double-crossing Lando. Gemma is...Solo? Basically frozen until she is released. Technically are the Inhumans Solo too as their powers are dampened? Is Fitz Leia or Luke? He came in costume, like Leia to save them, but then presented himself like Luke.  Kasius is Jabba? Holding parties, making the Inhumans “dance” for him. Disposing those who no longer fit his needs. Is Sinara Bobba Fett? Okay, this is eerie. Is this more of a mash-up than that one comment. I dont know the roles of Coulson/May/YoYo/Mack are then. If this follows the storyline of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, I wonder if we’re going to see our heros bombing the space craft with everyone escaping. Dont know how time travel figures in with everything...

1 hour ago, DayOwl said:

I'm puzzled over something that happened in this episode. I'm wondering if any of you noticed it and can explain what was going on, because I couldn't figure it out. Sinara and her goons were stalking through the human marketplace and she saw a guy with a soldering gun (or something similar). She grabbed it from him and took it. Back in Kasius's quarters, Jemma was fetching Kasius a drink from a pitcher of water. She was staring into the glass like she was spacing out. Sinara came over to her, grabbed her roughly (the glass smashing in the process), threw her to the ground, and dropped the soldering gun on the ground in front of her in an accusatory way. Why? It wasn't Jemma's soldering gun. Kasius just looked at Jemma like he was waiting for her to do something, but she didn't. I feel like that scene was supposed to mean something, but I didn't understand what.

I think Sinara was trying to prove her point that there were more than just Gemma and Daisy on the ship from the past. I think she was trying to show Gemma she didnt believe her lies.

[david gideon]

I've been a fan of this show since season 1, but this year just seems off. Sometimes a series will do a 'bottle' show to keep down costs: film everything on a sound stage, no locations, lots of talking. I get the feeling SHIELD is going them one better by doing a bottle arc, and I can't wait for it to end. This last episode was so much talk and so little plot advancement, until the last five seconds. It's so dark at times it's hard to tell what's going on. I'll suffer through the rest of it but they better get off this rock soon. This is not the SHIELD I was hoping for.

[DayOwl]

2 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

I think Sinara was trying to prove her point that there were more than just Gemma and Daisy on the ship from the past. I think she was trying to show Gemma she didnt believe her lies.

Oh! Wait! I just remembered! That was the soldering gun that May grabbed and gave to Jemma when Jemma saved that guy by cauterizing his wound! That was Sinara's way of saying she hasn't forgotten about May's role in that. That was a little too much work for my brain to figure out right away. LOL.

[SnoGirl]

2 minutes ago, DayOwl said:

Oh! Wait! I just remembered! That was the soldering gun that May grabbed and gave to Jemma when Jemma saved that guy by cauterizing his wound! That was Sinara's way of saying she hasn't forgotten about May's role in that. That was a little too much work for my brain to figure out right away. LOL.

I like when shows let you follow its clues instead of hitting with the lesson/trick over thr head with a hammer. Leverage is a prime example, where I tried to figure out the heist as it happened. But they had to show the heist or explain things because people weren’t following. I like when shows assume I’m smart and can catch what they’re throwing.

I amend my Star Wars theory. Daisy is going to end up being Luke and saving them all right? Especially since she’s the Destroyer of Worlds. Then cementing Leo as Leia, which I really love for some reason.

[Lobsel Vith]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 11:12 AM, sjohnson said:

Coulson is being stupid. If Deke were lying about everything and just in it for profit, he would already have sold them all, not just Daisy. If Coulson was genuinely insightful, rather than supercool, he would know that Quake, the Destroyer of Worlds, running about like the maniac history said she was, was lucky not to have Deke stab her in the back...which alone suggests that Deke isn't what he thinks. 

Saving humanity doesn't mean killing Kasius, who isn't the real problem, which is lack of resources. 

I don't see how Coulson is being stupid. He found out that Deke sold Daisy into slavery. That's not the kind of thing any person would be emotionally detached about. And seeing how Deke's actions have endangered the whole of humanity (since Kasius plans to destroy the Lighthouse once Daisy is sold), his actions condemned everyone.

I'm at least glad that the show isn't trying to sell me on slavery being something that the crew will overlook (at least for now). That's not something anyone would realistically overlook. I was a bit concerned seeing how they wasted time during the Framework storyline to woobify Ward for the people who refused to accept that Grant Ward was a villain.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Lobsel Vith

[sjohnson]

Coulson also found out Daisy destroyed the Earth. Counts for a lot more. One of the structural problems in this show, which has kept me from watching it regularly, is that most of the characters are woobified, ignoring the dreadfulness of their personalities and their whole miserable organization. 

[Gothish520]

On 12/16/2017 at 0:56 AM, AnimeMania said:

Let's see, one ball can be named Ben and the other named Wa.

Lol, my husband calls them the Ben Wa balls of death!

[paigow]

14 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

I dont know the roles of Coulson/May/YoYo/Mack are then.

Mack: It's a trap!!!!!

[Lobsel Vith]

21 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Coulson also found out Daisy destroyed the Earth. Counts for a lot more.

Except Deke already contradicted himself when he brought up the multiple world theory of parallel universes, meaning even he doesn't think they are from the same universe as him, so Daisy didn't destroy the Earth, and assumptions about what she may have done don't justify slavery. Slavery is not one of the things we need this show to justify. There are enough people today who seem to think that historical slavery wasn't all that bad, and we really don't need this show to help endorse that mindset.

That Deke already pulled a Ward by justifying his actions because of his sad childhood doesn't give me much reason to feel sympathetic for him, either. I'm at a loss for how slavery has become defensible simply because an untrustworthy white guy told Daisy to do something after saying and doing things that caused her to distrust him (and after woobifying Ward in the Framework storyline, I don't need to see this show exonerate after character for doing heinous things).

21 hours ago, sjohnson said:

One of the structural problems in this show, which has kept me from watching it regularly, is that most of the characters are woobified, ignoring the dreadfulness of their personalities and their whole miserable organization. 

I don't see how. Coulson makes mistakes, and has been called out on them. Daisy and Mack were at odds over how to handle the Watchdogs. Daisy went rogue and became a vigilante. Fitz created an android who ran amuck, then he became a Nazi and tortured Daisy in the Framework. Mack beat the living hell out of a guy because he's still grappling with the loss of his daughter, who he lost twice. Yo-yo framed a man to protect the team, and Coulson pretty much endorsed it. I'm not seeing how they're being woobified.

[sjohnson]

^^^Have never been able to tolerate this show for long stretches, so tend to remember things, like SHIELD=HYDRA. Yet these people are running around like that never happened. These character believe a license to kill is not just a James Bond movie catchphrase but a moral code. SHIELD was a covert ops agency. Covert ops do not defend a country. Covert ops do not save people. Covert ops are crimes, committed at the behest of ruthless men in a cause that can't bear the light of day. Captain American taking down SHIELD (read, CIA) in Winter Soldier was a cheer the hero delight. This series walking it all back is woobification on steroids. 

As for Daisy destroying the Earth, maybe that's a parallel Earth, maybe it's not...and the multiverse theory says there would be an infinite number of Daisies who also destroy the Earth in an infinite number of timelines, so, no, the multiverse theory doesn't mean this Daisy sn't a Destroyer of Worlds. So, yes, Coulson has to know that Deke not killing the Destroyer of Worlds the moment her back is turned means he's exercising restraint. It also means he knows Deke has a hell of a good reason to distrust Daisy charging around like a maniac. And Coulson also knows Deke is more than an simple crook or he would have sold them all, rather than risk getting caught shielding them. Coulson locks up Deke (despite not knowing this world and having no other native guide to trust) so he can make a wisecrack, proving he's not just an unwiped asshole, but a smarmy unwiped asshole. Plot armor will no doubt save him from his folly, but it's still folly, and petty to boot. Coulson didn't turn a hair about Sky destroying the Earth because he doesn't really give a shit, so long as he looks cool and cracks wise. Your example of Coulson endorsing the murder of the guard isn't the show condemning Coulson. The show admires Yo-Yo for her toughness. And Simmons' reluctance is dramatic irony, which is why they have another guy savage Simmons so badly that Simmons snaps, even at the cost of some really awkward forced dialogue, that he's just as human. The show's forgiveness for Simmons was forgiveness for Yo-Yo too. 

As to the stuff about justifying slavery, the show doesn't justify slavery. Nor for that matter does Deke justify slavery. He thought turning Sky over was a bad thing in itself. That's why he toook the risk of openly telling Sky he was playing the long game. (Fortunately in convenient scripting the bad guys never notice coded language.) Deke didn't want to tell these people he used her. I don't blame him for that. Coulson et al. have made it perfectly clear they will risk anybody and everything, confident in their ability to kill anyone who stands in the way. I don't like Deke, but it's hard to see how anybody raised in this hellhole could get away undamaged. 

Speaking of damaged, Ward was the only one of the characters who had the kind of tortures and mental illness that could serve as an exculpation. The rest of these people are the way they are because they enjoy it. 

If your main takeway is that I don't like the show very much, that is correct. I have found whole months of it intolerable, and it's rapidly heading back there.

Edited December 19, 2017 by sjohnson

[Lobsel Vith]

12 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

^^^Have never been able to tolerate this show for long stretches, so tend to remember things, like SHIELD=HYDRA. Yet these people are running around like that never happened. These character believe a license to kill is not just a James Bond movie catchphrase but a moral code. SHIELD was a covert ops agency. Covert ops do not defend a country. Covert ops do not save people. Covert ops are crimes, committed at the behest of ruthless men in a cause that can't bear the light of day. Captain American taking down SHIELD (read, CIA) in Winter Soldier was a cheer the hero delight. This series walking it all back is woobification on steroids. 

I don't see how S.H.I.E.L.D. is woobified because Fury entrusted Coulson to lead the remnants of S.H.I.E.L.D. against Hydra. It's not even as though Coulson's leadership has been without criticism. Even pre-Hydra, the flaws within the organization were highlighted (as early as the third episode). Post-Fury, Mack brought up issues about Coulson that weren't contradicted. Even Yo-yo criticized aspects of the new S.H.I.E.L.D. when Mace was the new Director. This show has allowed criticism of the organization in all it's incarnations.

15 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

As for Daisy destroying the Earth, maybe that's a parallel Earth, maybe it's not...and the multiverse theory says there would be an infinite number of Daisies who also destroy the Earth in an infinite number of timelines, so, no, the multiverse theory doesn't mean this Daisy sn't a Destroyer of Worlds. So, yes, Coulson has to know that Deke not killing the Destroyer of Worlds the moment her back is turned means he's exercising restraint.

I can't strongly disagree with you enough that Coulson should just look the other way about Deke selling a person into slavery, much less a character who he's referred to as the closest thing he has to a daughter. You don't even have to like Daisy as a character to see the issue that any normal person would have with finding out that Deke sold a person into slavery.

16 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

The show admires Yo-Yo for her toughness. And Simmons' reluctance is dramatic irony, which is why they have another guy savage Simmons so badly that Simmons snaps, even at the cost of some really awkward forced dialogue, that he's just as human. The show's forgiveness for Simmons was forgiveness for Yo-Yo too. 

Except Mack doesn't endorse what Yo-yo did, and I'm glad the show didn't drag it on like it's done with Fitz and Simmons in the past for the sake of angst (which tells me the showrunners are learning from their mistakes). Mack made his feelings known, and so did Yo-yo; then they moved on from it. We don't need this dragged on for half a season; there are other stories to tell.

20 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

As to the stuff about justifying slavery, the show doesn't justify slavery. Nor for that matter does Deke justify slavery. He thought turning Sky over was a bad thing in itself. That's why he toook the risk of openly telling Sky he was playing the long game. (Fortunately in convenient scripting the bad guys never notice coded language.) Deke didn't want to tell these people he used her. I don't blame him for that. Coulson et al. have made it perfectly clear they will risk anybody and everything, confident in their ability to kill anyone who stands in the way. I don't like Deke, but it's hard to see how anybody raised in this hellhole could get away undamaged. 

That Deke excused his actions because of what happened to his parents shows that he's basically just another Ward, and one Ward was bad enough. I'm sure as hell going to blame him for selling someone into slavery, and excusing it because he has a sob story to tell. Everyone in the cast has a sob story, it didn't make Ward or Deke unique, and it didn't justify their actions when they did heinous things. That Deke's actions have lead to the remnants of humanity being in danger of extinction also shows that he was dead wrong.

22 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

Speaking of damaged, Ward was the only one of the characters who had the kind of tortures and mental illness that could serve as an exculpation. The rest of these people are the way they are because they enjoy it.

Ward had no excuse for his actions. He met Garret has an adult. He willingly made his choices. He wasn't some child soldier who was indoctrinated, he came from a wealthy family and had an awful older brother. A terrible childhood doesn't justify him helping Hydra with their genocidal plans, or his murder of countless people.

[CaptainTightpants]

Deke believes Daisy destroyed the world. That does not make it true. He says himself that he just cobbled bits of info together from mostly destroyed archives that he has come across in his scavenging. And all of this happened before he was even born. So I am not taking his belief as gospel.  

Not even Daisy thinks she has enough power to Quake something as enormous and dense as a planet. It is way, way past anything we have ever seen her do. She and Coulson are understandably skeptical about this "destroyer of worlds" myth that has sprung up. I don't think we have been introduced to any single inhuman who would be capable of that kind of destruction. 

And not to forget that the entire point of their abduction and time travel is presumably to prevent this future from ever happening in the first place. So, no Deke, no Kasius, no Lighthouse at all. They are going for the big re-set button in the sky. 

[tennisgurl]

They really need to give those death balls the blue lady is always playing with a name, because there are only so many times I can type things like "those death balls the blue lady is playing with" without laughing hysterically like a 12 year old. So its this super dramatic storyline about death, slavery, and poor lighting, and every five minutes, its like "heheheh. Balls". 

[paigow]

39 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

They really need to give those death balls the blue lady is always playing with a name 

Pretend that Alec Baldwin is Kasius and the answer writes itself.....

[blackwing]

I'm finding this season so slow and plodding.  The only part I find mildly exciting is the Inhuman Gladiator Arena.  The rest of it is just so boring.  I really don't care about Blue Man and his plot to... do whatever it is he is doing.  I'm glad Daisy is with Jemma now but the Jemma cone of buzzing silence thing is getting old. 

I wish I could bring myself to care about whatever it is that Coulson, Mack, Elena and May are doing in that trash compactor looking area, sorting rocks or something.  But I can't even tell what the hell is going on with them because wherever they are is SO DAMN DARK that I can't see anything.  Why must the show do this?  Have some pity on people with old eyes and make things brighter.  Surely they can still be all dystopian doom and gloom without having to be in the dark!

So is that it for Bradley Cooper?  He gets welded shut into a closet?

[Mellowyellow]

I love this show!!!! I have always loved this show but I especially enjoyed last season and am now loving the arc this season.

Was a little wary of the whole outer space thing at first and I have never been fond of dark dreary storylines with grubby looking people but this works for me. I'm invested in the story, the characters, plot.

Poor Daisy now allegedly The Destroyer of Worlds! Poor girl can't catch a break!

Hubby and I squealed when Fitz appeared at the end of the episode and then we were like "OMG It can't end here! Noooooo"

I want Simmons to stab the sh@t out of that nasty smug blue alien!!!!!!

May is so awesome. When she fights it's like she's an inhuman! 

[Sandman]

On 12/15/2017 at 10:46 PM, SnoGirl said:

Did you see the female Kree wiped off her steel weapons?

I'm ready to see Sinara chopped into the Kree equivalent of fish food. She's more annoying than menacing. This show has too many unappealing, creepy characters this season.

On 12/19/2017 at 0:56 AM, blackwing said:

The only part I find mildly exciting is the Inhuman Gladiator Arena. The rest of it is just so boring. 

It's pretty much all boring me. I find the arena aspect the most shopworn of all. It's not a even a trope that's being used cleverly. And Phil wasn't lampshading -- having a character actually say "the vibe is full-on dystopia" is just on-the-nose.

[Lady Calypso]

So, I missed this episode last week in favor of watching another show. But because I want to watch tonight's episode, I decided to catch back up.

I am not fond of Deke, but I certainly think his intentions, from what he personally knows and has lived through, is fine. He owes our main characters absolutely nothing. But, like he did say last week, he is playing the long game so for all I know, he is not really double crossing our main characters and actually has a plan to help them in the end. I'm just trying to figure out what his plan is, exactly. Clearly there's a reason he only sold out Daisy and not the others. And I think he was lying to Coulson and May to protect them. I don't consider his actions right and he irritates me nonetheless, so I'm not trying to defend his actions for turning Daisy over. I just am working to understand him if he's sticking around, and hoping he has his own endgame that's not just about himself. 

I do wonder about Deke's confession that he was (one of) the last to be born before Kasius began doing it artificially. Just a random nugget to drop in, or will it end up being important? 

Also, nobody knows about Kasius' plan to destroy the Lighthouse after Daisy is sold, so Deke couldn't have possibly anticipated that wrench.

Eh, either way, I still vastly prefer Tess, which means of course she's less of a supporting character than Deke. And, of course she was missing from this episode. I did like Daisy's telepath friend, someone whose name I don't remember.

I do find the Jemma (and now Daisy) scenes more interesting than the other plots. The Kasius stuff is highly disturbing, but at least I have a vested interest. With Coulson and the gang, I just don't find myself caring either way. I mean, I care about their safety, but I don't care about what's happening in those scenes.

I did like Daisy getting a better picture of that particular future from the telepath. She, like Mack, has been high and mighty about things that she could never understand. She's only getting a taste of what life is like in that world.

Sinara vs May was fun. I did appreciate that they let the audience figure out Sinara's plans with May. I, too, didn't figure the connection with the gun until it was said on here. What a neat way to connect May to all of this.

I loved seeing Fitz. I didn't know when he'd show up exactly, but I'm glad they brought him in at a good time. I hope he has a plan; not only that, I hope it's a plan that eventually works, even if they have to go through some hoops to get there.