S02.E09: Paterfamilias

[Cara]

2 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

This confused me as well - was he imagining what the crash site looked like? Was he having a nightmare? Dream sequences haven't been a  part of the show, so it didn't seem to fit to me either.

I took it as him imagining what the crash would have been like. 

[dubbel zout]

19 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Anne sent her children there.   Good god WHY????

I think Peter and Zara probably thrived there. They aren't Charles. The school was coed by that point, and that always changes the tenor.

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

I think Peter and Zara probably thrived there. They aren't Charles. The school was coed by that point, and that always changes the tenor.

The school is STILL more outdoor focused than a "typical" boarding school.  It's kind of like (North American) summer camp with academics, based on what I've read on the website.  (ETA:  Andrew's kids did not go there.  I looked it up - Beatrice went to one school and Eugenie, another (same school as Kate)). Anyway, that's getting off topic.

Philip was all about having legacy children, which is why all three boys were sent there.  And Charles being the eldest was a "must."  But yeah, the poor kid really looked like he needed a hug.  He even looked scared when Uncle Dickie visited him.  He looked frightened while eating cookies.  As if he didn't want any.  Who doesn't like cookies?  Kids who are freaked out.  

Edited December 22, 2017 by PRgal

[Pallas]

On 12/17/2017 at 1:15 PM, Rinaldo said:

And no doubt less-than-optimum decisions were sometimes made, then as now; that's the parent's lot in life, to make the best choice you can see at the time and then sometimes find later that you messed up.

Uncle Dickie's beautiful point to Philip, after the funeral: one day you will pray to be forgiven for the sins you did your child. A cruel truth.

I love the Dicki Wan Mountbattan that Peter Morgan has dreamed up here, and Grey Wise is portraying.  

[spottedreptile]

22 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

As his mother - Elizabeth - descends the gangplank, they reach out and SHAKE HANDS - the first time I saw this my heart broke.  You come home after 6 MONTHS of not seeing your kids and you....SHAKE HANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my god I am so with you on this. I don't care about Royal protocol in this instance, this is a mother and her child who desperately wants to give her a huge hug and feel safe and loved again. I can't help but contrast it with Diana's wide open arms for both her boys (can't remember when that was but I'm sure you will remember it) so she could just envelop them with love when she got back home from some trip or other. You could just feel her delight at seeing her young sons again. 

I can understand the "no emotion" rules for adults or even teenagers, but these kids are very young and should be shown love at all opportunities. Otherwise look at the mess they become. 

[Bec]

I suppose Diana was like that all the time, so no need to pinpoint exactly when it would have been. I remember seeing this museum exhibit of her dresses, and there was this fancy velvet evening gown with little kid handprints all over it. Probably from hugging her kids. I may be a curmudgeon, but even I thought that's sweet.

6 hours ago, Pallas said:

Uncle Dickie's beautiful point to Philip, after the funeral: one day you will pray to be forgiven for the sins you did your child. A cruel truth.

There's a way to avoid that: don't have any kids. lol

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, spottedreptile said:

Oh my god I am so with you on this. I don't care about Royal protocol in this instance, this is a mother and her child who desperately wants to give her a huge hug and feel safe and loved again. I can't help but contrast it with Diana's wide open arms for both her boys (can't remember when that was but I'm sure you will remember it) so she could just envelop them with love when she got back home from some trip or other. You could just feel her delight at seeing her young sons again. 

I can understand the "no emotion" rules for adults or even teenagers, but these kids are very young and should be shown love at all opportunities. Otherwise look at the mess they become. 

This habit was far more common.  In one of our classics, the hero comes home after three years in prison for his role in the rebellion - and he shakes hands with his wife! The scene is all the more powerful because the various emotions are only seen in her face whereas his face is like a stone because his hard experiences. 

Also, there are many real stories that when the father came from war, young children didn't know him and were even afraid of him. It took time before they dared to came near him and still more before they let him take them in his arms.

So, I am not at all sure if Charles had liked to be hugged straightaway by her mother who had been away five months. But I am told that what he wanted was to shake hands as first which was against the protocol - and Elizabeth said: No, not you.

Maybe it would simply have been best to greet children in private.     

[CousinAmy]

I'm Charles's age. It may sound unfathomable now, but he was a cute little guy, and I quite fancied him. I remember reading about the family in one of the little newspapers we got in school, My Weekly Reader.  From the pictures we saw they seemed to be a young family like mine. Now the whole lot of them, from Charles going back, seem stuffy and stodgy, but at the time they were just more formal than Americans are used to.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Oh my god I am so with you on this. I don't care about Royal protocol in this instance, this is a mother and her child who desperately wants to give her a huge hug and feel safe and loved again. I can't help but contrast it with Diana's wide open arms for both her boys (can't remember when that was but I'm sure you will remember it) so she could just envelop them with love when she got back home from some trip or other. You could just feel her delight at seeing her young sons again. 

I'd chalk it up more to different times and different expectations.  Diana had a public presence the Queen never had, and the expectations for how she treated her kids in public (and how they responded to her in public) in the 1980s/1990s were quite different from those QE2 dealt with in the 1950s and 1960s.   

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, CousinAmy said:

I'm Charles's age. It may sound unfathomable now, but he was a cute little guy, and I quite fancied him. I remember reading about the family in one of the little newspapers we got in school, My Weekly Reader.  From the pictures we saw they seemed to be a young family like mine. Now the whole lot of them, from Charles going back, seem stuffy and stodgy, but at the time they were just more formal than Americans are used to.

My Weekly Reader,what a blast from the past! I'm a wee bit younger, but I do remember them.

[VCRTracking]

Okay, this is slightly off-topic but watching I thought "Wait. There are actual private schools founded and taught by one person like Professor Xavier in X-Men?"

Reading about the Royal Detective who seemed to care and was more protective of Charles and sad to read:

Quote

As we see in The Crown, the young prince was guarded by the detective Donald Green, who did his best to be unobtrusive. Green became a friend and father figure, until he was sacked for letting 14-year-old Charles order a cherry brandy on a school trip – in the presence of a tabloid reporter. Charles was devastated to lose his one ally.

Edited December 26, 2017 by VCRTracking

[tatianalarina]

The horrific detail about the baby born on the plane is apparently true https://www.vogue.com/article/the-crown-prince-philip-childhood-plane-crash?mbid=social_cp_fb_tny

[dubbel zout]

What happened to Philip's sister Cecilia is absolutely factual. And completely hideous. And deeply tragic.

[Brn2bwild]

On 12/16/2017 at 1:25 PM, dubbel zout said:

Alice is a fascinating woman in her own right. A good biography of her is Alice, Princess Andrew of Greece, by Hugo Vickers.

And shame on this show for pretending as though Victoria, Marchioness of Milford Haven, Phillip's grandmother and a HUGE influence on his life, did not exist.

[VCRTracking]

There are times I do want to see THIS Phillip:

and Margaret:

[Clanstarling]

3 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

There are times I do want to see THIS Phillip:

and Margaret:

We did see that Phillip, at least a bit, in the first season. I'll take your word that's Margaret, and yes, it would be nice to see a Margaret who wasn't bitter and snippy.

[dubbel zout]

17 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

And shame on this show for pretending as though Victoria, Marchioness of Milford Haven, Phillip's grandmother and a HUGE influence on his life, did not exist.

Well, they had to draw the line somewhere. As much attention as Philip is given on the show, it's not about him. 

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

and Margaret:

LOL that she and Philip make a point to wave to that man. 

[tennisgurl]

I honestly feel like the show really is doubling down on "everyone is an asshole except Elizabeth" thing a bit too hard this season. Philip has always been challenging, but they seem to be going SO HARD on making him look like an asshole with his dealings with his family. Elizabeth is distant, but basically kind, while most people around her are quite a bit nastier. Not unsympathetic, but they do seem to be playing up their worst traits and playing down their better ones, while they're doing the opposite with Elizabeth.

Anyway, I felt awful for both Philip and Charles in this episode, although I still think that Philip wins the Worst Childhood contest. His whole early life just seemed to be a royal version of A Series of Unfortunate Events, but instead of Count Orloff, he gets a bunch of Nazis and a horrible father. Even though I dont think the confrontation at his sisters funeral happened the way it was depicted here, I do think it was a dramatization of real issues he had with his father, and his generally awful childhood. I can see why he loved Gordonstoun, despite all the abuse he took there. It gave him a sense of purpose, a home, and a family,with a man he saw as a kindred spirit and survivor in a world that had tossed them out. It also drove out his "I am royalty therefore am awesome" attitude that grown up Philip hates so much, and I can see why he would want his son to have that same experience. He was clearly wrong, and Charles was obviously miserable and didn't learn a thing there beyond how to pray for the end, but I do get why this was so important to Philip. Philip can be just SUCH an asshole, but at least I usually understand him. 

I know some people have complained about the focus on Philip this season, and while Elizabeth should always be the focus, I find Philip and his backstory fascinating. While the rest of the Brits are pretty much all anglo all the time, Philip really has an extremely cosmopolitan background, both in his family background and all of the places he has lives and people he interacted with, and his family is just a never ending soap opera of a mess. His immediate family was just all over the place, and his life was all over the place before he ended up in England and committed to being with them during the war. I really liked the scenes with young Philip and his sister in Nazi Germany, and his increasingly creeped out expression walking past all of the people doing Nazi salutes and the funeral being made into Nazi propaganda was chilling. What was really depressing was, however, is that Philip seems to still really think his dad was right about being at fault for his sisters death. His references to his "shame", even as an adult, is just so sad. It was also sad to see him snapping at poor little Charles, for not being "strong" enough, even as this is all clearly about Philips issues. I really do think he believes that toughening his kids up is a good thing. And given the many times his whole world was rocked as a kid, I can see why. 

[dubbel zout]

53 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

While the rest of the Brits are pretty much all anglo all the time

They're more German than anything else.

[Clanstarling]

55 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Anyway, I felt awful for both Philip and Charles in this episode, although I still think that Philip wins the Worst Childhood contest. His whole early life just seemed to be a royal version of A Series of Unfortunate Events, but instead of Count Orloff, he gets a bunch of Nazis and a horrible father.

Agreed, and love your reference to Series of Unfortunate Events.

[Anothermi]

On 2017-12-17 at 11:31 AM, Cara said:

Apparently there was quite a bit of artistic license taken. According to this article nothing remotely like the scene where his father yells at him after spotting at the funeral happened. In fact Philip actually traveled with his father from London to the funeral in Germany.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5163451/Netflix-drama-Crown-slammed-Prince-Philip-lie.html

A link to this article was also provided by a poster on Page 1 of this thread. Comments on it's over-the-top claims were made on that page as well.

The Daily Mail, which published that article, is a tabloid newspaper whose mandate is to print/manufacture scandals that get tongues wagging. They are not above quoting out of context and/or fabricating drama from from portions of real statements.

Accurate, in depth writing is not a hallmark of this paper.  We could apply the phrase "Apparently there was quite a bit of artistic license taken"  to the article itself.

Case in point:

Her plane crashed after hitting a factory chimney in fog near Ostend on November 16. 

Also killed were her mother, her husband, their sons aged six and four, a lady-in-waiting and the best man. Firemen found the remains of an infant, prematurely delivered when the plane crashed, lying beside Cecile’s body, suggesting the pilot tried to land because she had begun to give birth.

The paper was able to get pictures and outraged "quotes" but went ahead and printed that Cecile's mother was killed (that would be Philip's mother too) instead of her mother-in-law.

The artistic license that reasonable people might question regarding the show's portrayal was the public accusation made by Philip's father that Philip was to blame.  Instead, the article tries to imply that the show was portraying Philip as BEING responsible by quoting scenes.

If that article had been a review of this episode, rather than scandal-mongering, it would have been more than fair to say that scene was heavy handed, to say the least, and unnecessary. The lead up scenes mentioned in the article (perhaps repeated in fast montage while he was walking behind the hearse?) would have gotten the point across that Philip felt he was somehow to blame for his favourite sister's death. Undoubtedly, Philip - among others - would have experienced the inevitable what-ifs that we feel after a family tragedy and as a young person, felt them much more keenly. If this was the show-writer's goal I, for one, feel that scene was a fail.

The moral of this post (because I think it's wanting one) is... don't put your trust in tabloid news to confirm or deny how much a movie is making stuff up. You'll just get a pot saying the rotten old kettle is black.  [insert winky face]

[Anothermi]

On 2017-12-14 at 5:26 PM, WatchrTina said:

Okay, I could not figure out why "Dickie" was at the funeral so off I went to Wikipedia. ....

Okay so Uncle Dickie was there because Philip's mother is Dickie's sister and Philip's sister who died in the crash was Dickie's niece.  Got it. 

From a link to a blog, posted on page 1 of this thread by millk:

"Among the mourners were Lord Louis Mountbatten – representing the British King and Queen -, the Marchioness of Milford Haven – representing the British Queen Mary."

Both Lord Mountbatten and Marchioness of Milford Haven were relatives of the deceased and lived in the UK so it was handy for King George VI and dowager Queen Mary to appoint them as representatives.

 

Interesting side note is that different biographic historians have Philip traveling to the funeral alone (Philip Eade - Young Prince Philip: His Turbulent Early Life)  or in the company of his Father (cited in Daily Mail article from royal historian HUGO VICKERS - bottom of article).

Must be great to have a choice of what to quote from.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's Epic Old-School Recap of the episode!

 

Prepare Yourselves, Because The Crown S02.E09 Is Going To Make You Want to Hug Prince Charles

And punch Prince Philip, the Puke of Edinburgh but...you knew that.

[Paloma]

On 12/15/2017 at 9:50 AM, WatchrTina said:

Wasn't it strongly implied that, for Phillip, the choice of school for his son was "a bridge too far"?  My take-away from that conversation he has with Elizabeth is that if she overrules him on this, a private matter regarding the upbringing of their children -- if he cannot have final authority in at least that sphere of his life -- then the promises he made when they were aboard the Britannia were off the table.  He would no longer be "in and not out."  He didn't say it explicitly but I got the distinct sense of a credible threat from him in that scene.  His ego (and a big part of his identity) were caught up in holding the line on this one point.

Agreed, and this scene made me hate Phillip even more. I understand that he had a painful childhood and believed that Charles needed to toughen up, but threatening Elizabeth with ending the marriage (not sure if he meant divorce or just no longer pretending to be a good husband) was proof that he had not matured and still cared only about his own needs. We can make excuses about the times and tradition, but bottom line (at least as depicted here) Phillip's love for Charles and Elizabeth was conditional on them doing what he wanted and living up to his standards. That's a bad father and a bad husband in my book.

[Roseanna]

On ‎27‎.‎12‎.‎2017 at 6:41 PM, VCRTracking said:

There are times I do want to see THIS Phillip:

and Margaret:

Actually, in S1 we saw Philip playing with Charles and Anne whereas Elizabeth just watched them from the window.  So he was a good father when the children were small. But after that he didn't  like when Charles wasn't like Anne.

To her he continued to be an ideal father irl.    

[Clanstarling]

1 minute ago, Roseanna said:

Actually, in S1 we saw Philip playing with Charles and Anne whereas Elizabeth just watched them from the window.  So he was a good father when the children were small. But after that he didn't  like when Charles wasn't like Anne.

To her he continued to be an ideal father irl.    

He would also have had fewer expectations of her, which would make that relationship easier. It's not uncommon, and I think - royal expectations aside - that parents are harder on the children of their own gender because the parents have gone through similar experiences and expect the children to manage as well (or better because of their advice) than they did. I know I'm much harder on my girls than my husband is. I don't excuse as much behavior. (ugh, that makes me Phillip, huh?)

[VCRTracking]

28 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

He would also have had fewer expectations of her, which would make that relationship easier. It's not uncommon, and I think - royal expectations aside - that parents are harder on the children of their own gender because the parents have gone through similar experiences and expect the children to manage as well (or better because of their advice) than they did. I know I'm much harder on my girls than my husband is. I don't excuse as much behavior. (ugh, that makes me Phillip, huh?)

Have you seen Lady Bird? I haven't but from reading about it it sounds like the mother-daughter relationship would resonate.

Edited January 5, 2018 by VCRTracking

[VCRTracking]

38 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Actually, in S1 we saw Philip playing with Charles and Anne whereas Elizabeth just watched them from the window.  So he was a good father when the children were small. But after that he didn't  like when Charles wasn't like Anne.

To her he continued to be an ideal father irl.

Phillip also ended up being very close with his grandson William. He could talk about "man stuff" so he became like the son he wanted Charles to be. I think of Matt Smith on The Graham Norton Show when he told about meeting William and another person told the prince Matt was playing his grandfather and if he had any advice for him  and William just shook his hand and said  "Legend! He's an absolute legend!"

Edited January 5, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Inquisitionist]

11 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Phillip also ended up being very close with his grandson William. He could talk about "man stuff" so he became like the son he wanted Charles to be. I think of Matt Smith on The Graham Norton Show when he told about meeting William and another person told the prince Matt was playing his grandfather and if he had any advice for him  and William just shook his hand and said  "Legend! He's an absolute legend!"

This sent me scurrying to youtube.  Here's the Norton clip.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Have you seen Lady Bird? I haven't but from reading about it it sounds like the mother-daughter relationship would resonate.

It's on my list. It came and went in our town too quickly for me to get to it. Yes, the trailers resonated. Though to be clear, I actually have a good relationship with my girls, despite being harder on them. It's the difference between a cream center chocolate (husband) and chewy caramel (me).

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I think of Matt Smith on The Graham Norton Show when he told about meeting William and another person told the prince Matt was playing his grandfather and if he had any advice for him  and William just shook his hand and said  "Legend! He's an absolute legend!"

I believe Harry said one word to Smith: "Stud."

[bluphoenix451]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:41 AM, VCRTracking said:

There are times I do want to see THIS Phillip:

and Margaret:

I love these clips and I did notice this season we saw some subtle maternal/kid friendly Margaret moments in the background. When she visited after Andrew's birth she peeped into the bassinet with a smile and I believe we saw her holding or cuddled up with Anne twice (at least once in the episode where the watched the Antarctica films). Those were nice layered moments to add to her characterization.

[katie9918]

I’ve wanted to see real Philip and real Margaret since the season two premiere. Obviously, Morgan has chosen to go for cheap personal theatrics rather than tell a story that may be considered “boring.”

 

Philip may calm down and buckle down in season 3 because history has shown that he did do just that eventually (then again, that was what I was hoping for after Lisbon and what seemed to be happening - without attention - until that overwrought scene about Charles’ schooling in Paterfamilias), probably becoming the best example of a consort in human history (not that many would dare give him the credit), but I was also hoping that Margaret would be able to smile without irony or sarcasm for more than one scene in a row.

Edited January 7, 2018 by katie9918

[VCRTracking]

2 hours ago, bluphoenix451 said:

I love these clips and I did notice this season we saw some subtle maternal/kid friendly Margaret moments in the background. When she visited after Andrew's birth she peeped into the bassinet with a smile and I believe we saw her holding or cuddled up with Anne twice (at least once in the episode where the watched the Antarctica films). Those were nice layered moments to add to her characterization.

Also when she danced with Charles at a party in season 1

[CousinAmy]

7 hours ago, katie9918 said:

 

 

Philip may calm down and buckle down in season 3 because history has shown that he did do just that eventually (then again, that was what I was hoping for after Lisbon and what seemed to be happening - without attention - until that overwrought scene about Charles’ schooling in Paterfamilias), probably becoming the best example of a consort in human history (not that many would dare give him the credit), but I was also hoping that Margaret would be able to smile without irony or sarcasm for more than one scene in a row.

But how would we know? There are decades between then and now (or, say, the '70s to the '90s) and he could have been quietly stepping out all along. Maybe this is written to let us think - whew! They dodged a bullet back in the 1950s - but he must have had ample opportunities since. 

[doodlebug]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 11:09 PM, kaygeeret said:

I have an enduring memory of a news clip showing a very young (4-6 yrs?) Charles greeting his parents when they return from a 6 month trip to visit the colonies.

As his mother - Elizabeth - descends the gangplank, they reach out and SHAKE HANDS - the first time I saw this my heart broke.  You come home after 6 MONTHS of not seeing your kids and you....SHAKE HANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am now and forever on Charles side.  He was raised in riches,  and yet his childhood was horrific.....

I really wanted to jump into the screen and somehow save him.

We all have problems and stresses but my god, his were and are lived out in public.  How god  awful

I think I would have entered a monastery - and I don't think monasteries accept women :)

Just a lesson that money doesn't buy anything except "stuff".

I am actually astonished that he is as stable as he is....probably a testimony to money to help you, but still.

There is also the rather common British reserve going on here.  In America, we tend to be more demonstrative across the board.  I have a dear friend of 45 years, a born Londoner.  I visited her there for the first time when I was 27 (I'm 60 now, for context).  When she introduced me to her father, he extended his hand and I very spontaneously gave him a hug.  I'd never met the guy, but I'd been pen pals with his daughter for about 15 years by then, I knew all about him from her.  From then on, he gave me a hug every time he saw me and a massive embrace and kiss at the train station when I left to come home.  He was, BTW, a lovely, sweet man and I miss him to this day.  She later remarked that her father had never hugged her, not privately, not publicly.  The first time she went to the US for a visit, at age 25, he politely shook her hand and wished her well at the airport!  And, she loved her Dad, they were close as could be, they just weren't PDA sorts of people.  However, she did take a page from my book after my visit and started hugging her dad all the time after my visit and they both loved it.

Edited January 8, 2018 by doodlebug

[kwnyc]

You'd think that some of the little monsters rubbing mud in Charles's face at Cheam would have had parents who said: he's going to be king one day, and you might need him to appoint you to something. Or have some kind of older/younger buddy system instead of everyone ganging up on the young and weak.

Of course, the school could have seen to it that the bullying stopped, but the headmaster at Cheam seemed to dislike Charles. 

He totally needed a Crabbe and Goyle.

[merylinkid]

4 minutes ago, kwnyc said:

You'd think that some of the little monsters rubbing mud in Charles's face at Cheam would have had parents who said: he's going to be king one day, and you might need him to appoint you to something. Or have some kind of older/younger buddy system instead of everyone ganging up on the young and weak.

Of course, the school could have seen to it that the bullying stopped, but the headmaster at Cheam seemed to dislike Charles. 

He totally needed a Crabbe and Goyle.

We see it as bullying now.   Back then it was just the way things were.   It "toughened" them up.   Stepping in would have made them "weak."   So the school was perfectly fine with it.  

[txhorns79]

Quote

We see it as bullying now.   Back then it was just the way things were.   It "toughened" them up.   Stepping in would have made them "weak."   So the school was perfectly fine with it.  

It was seen as bullying then, and it was not just the way things were.  Heck, QE2 herself was alarmed at how this treatment might seriously damage Charles.

[PeterPirate]

Plus, if you are going to rule an empire, you have to be willing to be the bully.  Either you're the puppeteer or you're the marionette.  

(This is a comment on imperialism in general, not just British imperialism.  As I type this I'm watching the new Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam war. China, France, Japan, and the US all invaded that country over the last century.)

Edited January 9, 2018 by PeterPirate

[CeeBeeGee]

On 12/22/2017 at 5:48 PM, Pallas said:

Uncle Dickie's beautiful point to Philip, after the funeral: one day you will pray to be forgiven for the sins you did your child. A cruel truth.

I love the Dicki Wan Mountbattan that Peter Morgan has dreamed up here, and Grey Wise is portraying.  

Love this! "Help me, Dicki Wan Kenobi..."

 

On 12/26/2017 at 0:47 AM, VCRTracking said:

Okay, this is slightly off-topic but watching I thought "Wait. There are actual private schools founded and taught by one person like Professor Xavier in X-Men?"

Reading about the Royal Detective who seemed to care and was more protective of Charles and sad to read:

Okay for some reason this site cut off the rest of the above-quoted post but it was about the infamous "cherry brandy incident"! I was hoping they'd dramatize that bit of ridiculousness but I guess not.

Ever since I first learned Cecilie's fate I was horrified. There's something so compelling awful about birth and death so close together. That poor, poor family.

[lids]

I thought this episode was a really interesting look at Philip. I don't think the writers like him, but they went in depth to give insight into what makes him (or at least the character version of him) the man he is.

We first see him bounding the stairs bragging to Elizabeth about some trophy he won. He doesn't get the particulars of the sport right; all that seems to matter to him is that he won. Later we see him speeding in his sports car. More than all the other episodes, this one hammers that Philip uses trinkets and trophies to flaunt and protect his social status. I guess that it follows that he views his kids as possessions, so he wants them to represent him, but then the show goes deeper than that.

The way he reacted after his sister's death leads us to believe that he never actually processed the tragedy, not in a healthy way anyway. His obsession with flying seemed linked to his need to conquer his trauma and his sister's fear. As if he was facing the very thing that destroyed him. Also the way he stayed outside for 24 hours (or however long it was supposed to be) to build that wall as a child reminds me of that scene in the movie Gravity where Sandra Bullock learns on her way home from work that her child has died and everyday after work she would just drive around for hours. I'm guessing that the writers of The Crown took extreme license with that story and Philip never built a wall in the rain after his sister's death, but that type of behavior usually means the person isn't facing the incident and is resubmerging themselves in the trauma to avoid dealing with the pain. Even the headmaster saying Philip had to ask for help made no psychological sense and leads me to believe Philip was self-managing his trauma by submerging into a sub-culture (a new "family") that never made him talk about his feelings and only amplified his disfunction.

In real life, I hope all the Royals have counselors, lol. They just seem monumentally messed up and unable to process grief, depression or betrayal because they are always in the limelight.

[Ceindreadh]

1 hour ago, lids said:

I thought this episode was a really interesting look at Philip. I don't think the writers like him, but they went in depth to give insight into what makes him (or at least the character version of him) the man he is.

We first see him bounding the stairs bragging to Elizabeth about some trophy he won. He doesn't get the particulars of the sport right; all that seems to matter to him is that he won. Later we see him speeding in his sports car. More than all the other episodes, this one hammers that Philip uses trinkets and trophies to flaunt and protect his social status. I guess that it follows that he views his kids as possessions, so he wants them to represent him, but then the show goes deeper than that.

 

Philip gets the particulars of his sport (sailing) correct, what he gets wrong is when he's trying to explain his sport to Elizabeth in horse racing terms so that she'll understand how good a win it was. 

[PeterPirate]

On 1/11/2018 at 3:02 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

Love this! "Help me, Dicki Wan Kenobi..."

"When offspring of your own you have, their forgiveness you will seek...."

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/25/2017 at 11:48 AM, CousinAmy said:

I'm Charles's age. It may sound unfathomable now, but he was a cute little guy, and I quite fancied him. I remember reading about the family in one of the little newspapers we got in school, My Weekly Reader.  From the pictures we saw they seemed to be a young family like mine.

Were we in the same class? Here's a specific memory I have of the Weekly Reader's story about Prince Charles, because the teacher made such a big deal of making sure we got the point. "Prince Charles is thriving at a private school where Spartan conditions are building his character." In other words, exactly the propaganda that was playing on Queen Elizabeth's TV set. There was something Kennedy-esque about it. And we bought it hook, line and sinker.

[blackwing]

I found myself intrigued by this episode, it was an interesting look at Philip.  I found myself really feeling for him when he explained why he wanted Charles at Gordonstoun.  Philip had no home or family and while the conditions were rough, he thrived at the school and it toughened him up.   He has no control over 95% of his life so I didn't think his request about control over schooling was out of line.

Charles was depicted as shy and sensitive and kind of a sissy.  He seemed afraid of everything.  Philip thought he was soft and wanted him to grow stronger and specifically didn't want his son coddled.  The other boys were mean to Charles just as Philip's classmates were mean to him.  But where Philip wouldn't let it break him, Charles cowered and cried behind a pillar.  

I felt for Philip because he was so disappointed that his son didn't turn out like him.  On the one hand, maybe he had unreasonable expectations.  But on the other, it is tough to watch your child fail, especially if you feel like they aren't even trying.

I kind of feel bad for the child actor who was cast as Charles.  It seems to me that he was possibly primarily picked because of those ears and their resemblance to the real Charles.

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

I found myself intrigued by this episode, it was an interesting look at Philip.  I found myself really feeling for him when he explained why he wanted Charles at Gordonstoun.  Philip had no home or family and while the conditions were rough, he thrived at the school and it toughened him up.   He has no control over 95% of his life so I didn't think his request about control over schooling was out of line.

Charles was depicted as shy and sensitive and kind of a sissy.  He seemed afraid of everything.  Philip thought he was soft and wanted him to grow stronger and specifically didn't want his son coddled.  The other boys were mean to Charles just as Philip's classmates were mean to him.  But where Philip wouldn't let it break him, Charles cowered and cried behind a pillar.  

I felt for Philip because he was so disappointed that his son didn't turn out like him.  On the one hand, maybe he had unreasonable expectations.  But on the other, it is tough to watch your child fail, especially if you feel like they aren't even trying.

Philip was as a man of his times and class. The children's happiness wasn't the top priority for the British aristocracy. 

Also generally, many parents have difficulties to understand children of different temperament and/or want them fulfill their dreams (f.ex. to become a NHL hockey player).

There was also one good reason not to chose Eton or Harrow: Philip didn't want Charles to grow among the sons and the aristocracy who thought that they were better than other people because of their birth. 

Also, Philip wasn't totally insensitive. He said in the plane that he wasn't angry to Charles for not he succeeding in the competition. It was only when Charles became afraid when the plane bumped and began to cry, that Philip exploded - and the reason probably was not Charles "weakness" but bumping reminded Philip of her sister and her family's death. 

And how hard the childhood and school were to Charles, a man becomes an adult when he stops to blame his parents for all that went wrong later in his life.  

[Hanahope]

Its a good thing the Crown insisted on the detective for Charles, that Philip didn't want.  Who would have gone looking for Charles after the challenge if there was no detective?  And for all the "egalitarian" and "team work", Charles' team left him behind?  I would have thought the team would be punished for leaving behind one of their members.

I'm definitely glad that we are in a different time from when both Philip and Charles were brought up.

Its a shame that Elizabeth couldn't have argued better that educating Charles was part of "her job" as the Queen, to make sure the crown's heir wasn't traumatized.  Obviously Elizabeth didn't know much about Philip's education/experience at G when she made the agreement to give him more power in raising their children.  I think that if she had, she never would have made that deal, at least as far as Charles was concerned.  

And Elizabeth sure wasn't depicted as going down to welcome Charles when he came home.  It seems that Philip did play with the children.  Did Elizabeth at all?  

[CousinAmy]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Its a good thing the Crown insisted on the detective for Charles, that Philip didn't want.  Who would have gone looking for Charles after the challenge if there was no detective?  And for all the "egalitarian" and "team work", Charles' team left him behind?  I would have thought the team would be punished for leaving behind one of their members.

I'm definitely glad that we are in a different time from when both Philip and Charles were brought up.

Its a shame that Elizabeth couldn't have argued better that educating Charles was part of "her job" as the Queen, to make sure the crown's heir wasn't traumatized.  Obviously Elizabeth didn't know much about Philip's education/experience at G when she made the agreement to give him more power in raising their children.  I think that if she had, she never would have made that deal, at least as far as Charles was concerned.  

And Elizabeth sure wasn't depicted as going down to welcome Charles when he came home.  It seems that Philip did play with the children.  Did Elizabeth at all?  

Don't forget Philip had already gone through the whole "last name" fiasco that seemed to be very important to him as a husband/father of his time - and he lost that battle. Elizabeth had to grant him some responsibility in raising the children so he wouldn't feel emasculated. 

It's hard to know how much either parent actually played with the children when the cameras weren't on - I suppose we will find out when Charles or Anne writes a tell-all? 

[Hanahope]

54 minutes ago, CousinAmy said:

Don't forget Philip had already gone through the whole "last name" fiasco that seemed to be very important to him as a husband/father of his time - and he lost that battle. Elizabeth had to grant him some responsibility in raising the children so he wouldn't feel emasculated

When you think that if Elizabeth had been a man and king, he likely would have made all the decisions including education for the kids, regardless of what the mother/queen wanted.  Philip Ugh.