S02.E10: Mystery Man

[formerlyfreedom]

 

Quote

A salacious government scandal hits close to home for Elizabeth and Philip. Elizabeth retreats to Scotland for rest during a difficult pregnancy.

 

[PinkRibbons]

The fight/reconciliation scene was powerful and beautifully acted, but I still want to know why the fuck Philip had that ballerina picture.

Edited December 9, 2017 by PinkRibbons

[storyskip]

13 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

The fight/reconciliation scene was powerful and beautifully acted, but I still want to know why the fuck Philip had that ballerina picture.

My take on it?

The show is suggesting that Philip did have something of an extended affair with the ballerina but that these are events that in fact are rumored but UNPROVEN so they cannot just spell it out in the show.  The actual Royal Family would never allow such a thing.   The show did the same thing with the 5 month tour.  If you think back over the scenes, we never actually see Philip take up an offer, we see Mike (who it is public fact that he was sued for divorced for adultery)  and it is suggested that Philip did as well but never stated as fact.

So the picture, and Elizabeth's comment about Switzerland was the suggestion that Philip had a regular liaison with the ballerina and she was saying to him that if he needed to have affairs in order to get through being a part of the family in public, then she was prepared to look the other way.  This makes what Philip said, that he didn't want her to look the other way, that he wanted her to look to him, to allow herself the emotion to insist that he be her's and only her's, that much more powerful.

And the very end shot, we see the entire season come full circle with Philip finally understanding and embracing his role within the family.  He keeps all the cats in line for her and navigates the emotions of the family, while Elizabeth wears the public face of duty.

[AttackTurtle]

I'm a history dork and I spent many hours reading up on some of the events in Phillip's life to verify whether the events occurred.   The scene of young Phillip behind his sister's coffin was chilling.   

 

Im now having a cocktail to both celebrate the show and mourn the fact that I have to wait another year ( or so) for another season.   The actress playing the queen is just phenomenal.

[millk]

There was some time line fiddling here. Perfumo blew up in March/April 1963 and the show had Elizabeth and Margaret both pregnant. Edward was born in March 1964 and Sarah in May. (also seen in the Kennedy episode where Elizabeth would have been 4-5 months pregnant with her 4th baby, not Claire Foy flat tummy)

 

Just looked through my books to find a picture like the end one. No big group shots. Mostly Elizabeth with baby Edward and mini-Andrew. 

[2727]

So the biggest shitheel in this whole cadre of conniving cads is ... Mrs. Macmillan?

And here I thought it was the French that had a lock on cavalier attitudes toward marital fidelity.

[JustaPerson]

Cecil the poetry-reciting royal photographer is the best. I hope he really was like that

[Mindthinkr]

5 hours ago, millk said:

There was some time line fiddling here. Perfumo blew up in March/April 1963 and the show had Elizabeth and Margaret both pregnant. Edward was born in March 1964 and Sarah in May. (also seen in the Kennedy episode where Elizabeth would have been 4-5 months pregnant with her 4th baby, not Claire Foy flat tummy)

 

Just looked through my books to find a picture like the end one. No big group shots. Mostly Elizabeth with baby Edward and mini-Andrew. 

There is something about her smile in this portrait that reminds me of the Mona Lisa. Just the smile mind you. 

[arjumand]

8 hours ago, millk said:

There was some time line fiddling here. Perfumo blew up in March/April 1963 and the show had Elizabeth and Margaret both pregnant. Edward was born in March 1964 and Sarah in May. (also seen in the Kennedy episode where Elizabeth would have been 4-5 months pregnant with her 4th baby, not Claire Foy flat tummy)

 

Just looked through my books to find a picture like the end one. No big group shots. Mostly Elizabeth with baby Edward and mini-Andrew. 

Wow, look at those ankles. What the hell was Jackie O. talking about? I am green with envy.

 

5 hours ago, JustaPerson said:

Cecil the poetry-reciting royal photographer is the best. I hope he really was like that

 

Absolutely. I don't know what was funnier, reciting Jerusalem while the group portrait was more like a rugby scrum, or that terrible story of the shopgirl inspired by Margaret and buying a scarf or something.

[Roseanna]

I must confess that I was perplexed why there was so much talk about lousy morality etc. when Ward was court as I remember that the Profumo scandal was about spying. Only with the help of Wikipedia I found out that Ward was charged about being a pimp. 

The court's harsh judgment was cut in between the show that mocked and showed hypocrisy of the Establishment.    

On 12/9/2017 at 11:40 AM, storyskip said:

The show is suggesting that Philip did have something of an extended affair with the ballerina but that these are events that in fact are rumored but UNPROVEN so they cannot just spell it out in the show.  The actual Royal Family would never allow such a thing.   The show did the same thing with the 5 month tour.  If you think back over the scenes, we never actually see Philip take up an offer, we see Mike (who it is public fact that he was sued for divorced for adultery)  and it is suggested that Philip did as well but never stated as fact.

So the picture, and Elizabeth's comment about Switzerland was the suggestion that Philip had a regular liaison with the ballerina and she was saying to him that if he needed to have affairs in order to get through being a part of the family in public, then she was prepared to look the other way.  This makes what Philip said, that he didn't want her to look the other way, that he wanted her to look to him, to allow herself the emotion to insist that he be her's and only her's, that much more powerful.

But what did Philip mean with his words? In some marriages sexual fidelity isn't the most important thing, loyalty was something else.  

The plot concerning the Elizabeth and Philip's was a litte odd, It seemed to me that because there was ten parts, the (temporary) happy end had to come only in the last part, although logically it could have come much sooner.

The first chance was ep 3 but then Philip got only his position was secured (I wrote about the parts 1-3 in the thread of ep 3).

She wants more children, but he is not attracted to her bed by her new combing style. The greater obstacle would IMO be her awful Grandma-style nightshirt 

The next chance is ep 6 in whose end Philip admires Elizabeth for her refusing to forgive Duke of Windsor. Inner qualities win outer ones: he becomes eager to make love to her. She seems to be a woman whose "no" means "yes". (In this show they apparently made Andrew in this night, irl after Philip returned from another long journey.)

For a reason that is a mysteriously, old problems were repeated despite Andrew's birth: Philip begins again to be away from home (long weekend, his journey to Switzerland) and the picture found at Ward's make Elizabeth suspect his fidelity again until the great reconciliation scene happens.      

[Helena Dax]

Great plot twist at the end when it's revealed that Philip has been a king all this time... the king of manspreading. Good Lord.

I get why the show can't say outright "yes, the Duke cheated on the Queen", but when it's been implied so obviously that he did, in that last scene he comes across like a liar who is gaslighting her. On the other hand, I like to think that he didn't. Or, at least, that he stopped after being given the title of Prince. 

Generally speaking, I enjoyed this season a lot, maybe even more than the first one. The actors were splendid, the photography was amazing and the drama and the moments of humour worked perfectly well. I can't wait for season 3, although I'll miss the actors. 

[2727]

Clearly I can't put myself in their shoes* but I have trouble believing that, even with their very busy royal appearances/schedules (which we really haven't seen much of), Philip would blithely leave home for a few days without even telling his wife. They had adjoining bedrooms and weren't living separately or anything.

The show has made me very curious about the real reason for the 10 year gap between Anne and Andrew.

 

 

* Although I'm tickled by the thought of one of my ladies in waiting kneeling to slip on my Croc thongs.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's please keep the conversation on-topic; this episode and this season. Discussion of the cast and future cast should take place over in The Royals and Company cast topic, and as always, discussion of future historical events in one of the History spoiler topics. Thank you!

[humbleopinion]

Food reflux- when you gobble your food down too fast

Sad regret-when you binge watch all 10 episodes of Season 2 of The Crown in one sitting

sigh....

The shot of Claire and Matt head to head was nice...a meeting of the minds...finally

Edited December 10, 2017 by humbleopinion

[fieldpoppy]

I've had the flu this weekend and I also gobbled down all of the episodes.  I accidentally missed Mrs. Kennedy and was delighted when I found an extra one after I watched Paterfamilias.

 

Watching the final episode, I found Claire Foy in this role mesmerizing.  There is a recapper elsewhere who keeps bleating on about how this show doesn't tell us enough about the Queen, but I find the eloquence Foy gives in her every nuanced twitch far more gratifying than Margaret's blowsy exhibition (also true to life).  It's so poignant -- this person, on her own, literally carrying the weight of the country, the family, the Church -- with no one to share it with.  Her "if only" was so lonely.

I'm so sad that this is the end of Foy in this role.  She is amazing.

[Bebecat]

I am mad at myself for watching all ten episodes...should have saved some. But I really enjoyed it and know British history enough to know when they were embellishing or adding for dramatic effect and still enjoy it. I loved the ending scene though I doubt that took place in real life.

While it is true that Philip was initially disparaged for his background by much of the population, many of the royals had short memories considering their many German relatives, which included those with Nazi ties and many more who surely would have been Nazis if they lived in that era. 

 

I hated seeing Elizabeth going to Balmoral alone to rest while pregnant...not sure if that happened but surely some family members would have accompanied her.

[TaurusRose]

On 12/9/2017 at 8:47 PM, 2727 said:

So the biggest shitheel in this whole cadre of conniving cads is ... Mrs. Macmillan?

And here I thought it was the French that had a lock on cavalier attitudes toward marital fidelity.

Yes!  Seriously, I don’t understand why her husband didn’t kick her to the curb. She was a contemptible cow.

[JustaPerson]

Poor Philip looked so clueless at the end there, watching Elizabeth give birth! Probably the first time he's done that, and indicative of their reconciliation. 

18 hours ago, arjumand said:

Wow, look at those ankles. What the hell was Jackie O. talking about? I am green with envy.

I didn't notice until you pointed it out! Those are some fabulous gams! And you know those are real, #nofilter.

Edited December 11, 2017 by JustaPerson

[Eri]

Wow, I know they concluded that divorce wasn't an option ever, nonetheless one of the most powerful women in the world tells him she is willing to "look the other way" at his lunch club trips, getaway weekends and possible rendevous to k and he calls JFK the "luckiest man on earth?" Perspective Philip.

I had been waiting for the "if only" line since the trailer. But I'm so pleased that she finally got a lot of things off her chest, including letting MacMillan know he was nothing more than a coward. A confederacy of quitters indeed. If I had to deal with a decade of mansplaining from these old codgers, I'd be fed up too.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Eri

[CaliCheeseSucks]

While I appreciate that they like to contain each episode thematically, the end of "Dear Mrs. Kennedy" would have made for a better ending to the season that the one here. I generally found this episode quite weak, and a particularly disappointing sendoff for Foy's portrayal. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

The show is suggesting that Philip did have something of an extended affair with the ballerina but that these are events that in fact are rumored but UNPROVEN so they cannot just spell it out in the show.  The actual Royal Family would never allow such a thing.   The show did the same thing with the 5 month tour.  If you think back over the scenes, we never actually see Philip take up an offer, we see Mike (who it is public fact that he was sued for divorced for adultery)  and it is suggested that Philip did as well but never stated as fact.

 

Yeah - it was definitely a balancing act, the way they never came right out and said he cheated on her but heavily implied it without any confirmation on his part. I find that frustrating but I understand it.

I tend to agree with Cali that while this episode would have made a satisfying season finale, it was disappointing as a quasi series finale if they're going to use a whole new cast next season. That makes the upcoming season feel more like a spin-off or sequel rather than a continuation, and I've grown so fond of this cast. 

[Atlanta]

I really hope after this ep it's not the man-child Philip tomcatting around.

[Roseanna]

On ‎11‎.‎12‎.‎2017 at 3:19 AM, fieldpoppy said:

Watching the final episode, I found Claire Foy in this role mesmerizing.  There is a recapper elsewhere who keeps bleating on about how this show doesn't tell us enough about the Queen, but I find the eloquence Foy gives in her every nuanced twitch far more gratifying than Margaret's blowsy exhibition (also true to life).  It's so poignant -- this person, on her own, literally carrying the weight of the country, the family, the Church -- with no one to share it with.  Her "if only" was so lonely.

I agree. She has the difficulty that she doesn't talk unlike the Philip or Margaret, but her silent face tells so much.

However, Philip's words that there were people who were willing to help her didn't seem so sincere. When has he helped her? So far, his only merit has ben to advise her to speak to Lascelles about Uncle David has been. He seemed to know about Suez Canal but she, having found the photo, was unable to listen. He is probably right about the traditions, but his constant whining wasn't the best way to present the matter. And in this episode he made mysterious journeys without telling her in advance.

(Because his long weekend I have also a difficulty to believe that he didn't participate in Ward's week-end parties which, after the scandal of Parker's divorce, wasn't well thout out. If he wanted to stray, he should have protected the Queen from scandal and do it in circumstances of other kind. As it was, she got embarrassed in front of her Private Secretary who had to tell her news.)

The Queen Mother hasn't help Elizabeth at all with Margaret. Her advice to send Philip away for five months was obviously wrong.

Lascelles has made both right and wrong choices, manipulated her but also protected her. 

Her three Prime Ministers have all been disillusionments, Churchill and Eden concealed her matters and Macmillan let himsen cheated by Probumo.

And of course Margaret has never supported her sister. 

[Bananna]

I think Dorothy Macmillan has won my award for "Most Unpleasant Character", sorry Tony's mother. I can't get over what a stone cold bitch she is!

My distaste for Margaret grew this episode, "doesn't that look like Philip's shoulders?" come on, you can tell that she's jealous of Elizabeth and her marriage isn't really panning it out the way she would like. But kudos to Vanessa Kirby, she really is a fabulous actress and my opinion of Margaret changes with every episode. 

With the relatively limited screentime that Elizabeth had this season, I was perhaps thinking that I wouldn't miss Claire Foy in the role. How wrong will I be, the penultimate scene with Philip really showcased her ability and reminded me of how much I love her in the role. Olivia Colman has a tough act to follow. 

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, Bananna said:

I think Dorothy Macmillan has won my award for "Most Unpleasant Character", sorry Tony's mother. I can't get over what a stone cold bitch she is!

She is indeed unpleasant but Macmillan was an adult and wasn't dependent on her. In such cases, spouses could live "separate lives".  

Instead, Tony was evidently as a child scarred for life by her snobbish mother who preferred his half-brother even though he was seriously ill.      

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I agree. She has the difficulty that she doesn't talk unlike the Philip or Margaret, but her silent face tells so much.

However, Philip's words that there were people who were willing to help her didn't seem so sincere. When has he helped her? So far, his only merit has ben to advise her to speak to Lascelles about Uncle David has been. He seemed to know about Suez Canal but she, having found the photo, was unable to listen. He is probably right about the traditions, but his constant whining wasn't the best way to present the matter. And in this episode he made mysterious journeys without telling her in advance.

(Because his long weekend I have also a difficulty to believe that he didn't participate in Ward's week-end parties which, after the scandal of Parker's divorce, wasn't well thout out. If he wanted to stray, he should have protected the Queen from scandal and do it in circumstances of other kind. As it was, she got embarrassed in front of her Private Secretary who had to tell her news.)

The Queen Mother hasn't help Elizabeth at all with Margaret. Her advice to send Philip away for five months was obviously wrong.

Lascelles has made both right and wrong choices, manipulated her but also protected her. 

Her three Prime Ministers have all been disillusionments, Churchill and Eden concealed her matters and Macmillan let himsen cheated by Probumo.

And of course Margaret has never supported her sister. 

I agree. He hasn't helped her. It bugs me that they have him saying stuff like that and she never counters pointing out that he doesn't help her. What have we seen Philip do besides whine? Only that one time when he told her to talk to Tommy about her uncle. No one in her family helps her but they all complain to her or about her. 

[Roseanna]

I wish that the finale wouldn't stress so much on Philip's sexual faithfulness or lack of it, but that a good marriage could at that time be based on loyalty, honesty, respect, friendship and support. 

In ep3 Elizabeth asked Philip to be "present, not absent". In the finale she asks for honesty and Philip promises her loyalty and support. (But he actually never said that he had always been faithful.)

It's significant that Eileen Parker complained before Mike left that he woud again miss Christimas, wedding day, his daughter's birthday. The matter that made Eileen to decide to apply for divorce was that Mike didn't call his daughter on her birthday although he had promised to do so. 

Macmillans wife wasn't only unfaithful but also illoyal, insensitive and indecent. She broke her promise to end her affair and that she couldn't know that her husband listened on her call to lover, was no excuse to tell intimate details about him. And what kind of woman goes with her lover to watch the show that mocks her husband and then tells him about it?

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

No one in her family helps her but they all complain to her or about her. 

Yes, to her mother she is still a child.

Margaret said that she came to support her after she was criticized for chosing Lord Home as Prime Minister, but when had Margaret ever supported her sister? On the contary, she glees when she is unhappy in her marriage. And now she speaks to fleeing to Scotland - as if an expecting mother with medical problems wouldn't have a right to rest. She had to from Scotland because of Macmillan's illmess and she can and must work there if necessary.

I think it was no coincidence that Macmillan resigned in this episode. Prime Ministers can resign when they lose their zeal to rule, but the Queen can't. 

Her job is for life although its not of her own chosen. That's why her religiosity is stressed: God is actually the only support she has (well, sometimes Lascalles but he is her servant).

[jschoolgirl]

On 12/10/2017 at 4:00 AM, arjumand said:

that terrible story of the shopgirl inspired by Margaret and buying a scarf or something.

What???

[Rowan]

All I have to say to the actress succeeding Claire Foy is, "Good luck, lady."

I've never had much of an opinion regarding the royal family, but I have to say I've been completely mesmerized by this whole series. I've been waiting the whole season for that final confrontation about his infidelity and it did not disappoint.

[jschoolgirl]

On 12/10/2017 at 8:54 PM, taurusrose said:

Yes!  Seriously, I don’t understand why her husband didn’t kick her to the curb. She was a contemptible cow.

It was because of his career.

[NetflixAddict]

Personally, I loved this episode. Two seasons of watching the Queen and Phillip face upheaval, dissatisfaction, miscommunication, and lack of trust and finally they get their shit together.  For the most part. The “Amen” chorus behind what appeared to be a redemptive birth experience was a little over the top with the symbolism, but after the emotional train wreck that was “Paterfamilias” and the acute loneliness of that pregnancy, I was ready for some joy!

Also, enough with the backs of men’s necks in this episode - we get it show!

[jrlr]

22 hours ago, jschoolgirl said:

What???

When Margaret was chafing at having to be dressed like a fairytale princess for the royal photographs, Cecil Beaton was nattering on at her about how being a fairytale princess would uplift and inspire young (read lower class) British women.  According to him, after seeing Margaret's pix, one of them might actually be inspired to go out and buy a scarf like Margaret's, thus - somehow - making her dreary  shopgirl life just a little brighter.  I laughed my ass off.

[IndianPaintbrush]

I just love Vanessa Kirby as Margaret. People said that Margaret would unexpectedly switch from being nice to being a total bee-yotch, and Kirby nailed that aspect of her personality.

On the whole I really enjoyed this season - episodes 4 and 9 being the highlights - but I'm totally done with all the spoiled man-children in this family. And I have a new respect for Charles, having to grow up in it.

[RedHackle]

I just love this show. I even tried to watch this season slowly, no more than one episode at a time to make it last longer. Everyone in the cast is outstanding but Claire Foy in particular has blown me away.  What she did with her face while confronting Philip about the ballerina was brilliant.

I also have to give the show major bonus points for presenting Philip as a human being - a flawed person but a person. I've always thought of him as a vapid, arrogant shit. Matt Smith was my favorite Doctor, and he's managed to make Philip almost (not quite) likable.

So sad it's over until next season.

[WatchrTina]

Well THAT was satisfying.  I want to believe that while Philip may have sniffed around, he was, in the end, faithful to the woman who saved him from a life of being an inconsequential royal, making him instead, the first gentleman of a great nation.  I want to to believe that.  Don't tell him if it's not true.

I am, however, confused about the ballerina's portrait.  I thought I saw Elizabeth put it back in his satchel when she found it before the the 5-month tour.  How, then, did she have it at the Balmoral guest house where she had taken refuge?

And now let's just think about the staff at Balmoral.  They are called by the staff at Buckingham Palace to say the the Queen will be arriving the next day.  No problem -- they live for this.  But then the secretary says, "Oh and Her Majesty has decided that she will stay at the guest house -- not the main house."  Can you IMAGINE what a tail-spin that would have caused?  That must have just thrown everyone into a tizzy.  Her own personal staff would have to be relocated from their usual assigned quarters (her two secretaries, her two dressers) and of course the head chef would want to relocate to the guest house kitchen to attend to her.  I take a silly delight in the total chaos that must have ensued when the Queen announced her decision to stay in the guest house.  But . . . that's what rich folks get to do.  I'm sure the staff were talking about it afterward for YEARS.

That was Andrew we saw being born, right?

[Renee in CA]

This was Edward, wasn't it? Andrew was born in a previous episode I think. - Just checked, yep, Edward.

[vixenbynight]

On 12/9/2017 at 11:40 AM, storyskip said:

My take on it?

The show is suggesting that Philip did have something of an extended affair with the ballerina but that these are events that in fact are rumored but UNPROVEN so they cannot just spell it out in the show.  The actual Royal Family would never allow such a thing.   The show did the same thing with the 5 month tour.  If you think back over the scenes, we never actually see Philip take up an offer, we see Mike (who it is public fact that he was sued for divorced for adultery)  and it is suggested that Philip did as well but never stated as fact.

So the picture, and Elizabeth's comment about Switzerland was the suggestion that Philip had a regular liaison with the ballerina and she was saying to him that if he needed to have affairs in order to get through being a part of the family in public, then she was prepared to look the other way.  This makes what Philip said, that he didn't want her to look the other way, that he wanted her to look to him, to allow herself the emotion to insist that he be her's and only her's, that much more powerful.

And the very end shot, we see the entire season come full circle with Philip finally understanding and embracing his role within the family. He keeps all the cats in line for her and navigates the emotions of the family, while Elizabeth wears the public face of duty.

I like how you describe how Phillip finally wants Lisbet to get that he has "always been hers". I watched one of the numerous early BBC documentaries on their early years of their courtship and marriage. She could never stop smiling when she looked at him. She really loves him.

On 12/9/2017 at 6:43 PM, AttackTurtle said:

I'm a history dork and I spent many hours reading up on some of the events in Phillip's life to verify whether the events occurred.  The scene of young Phillip behind his sister's coffin was chilling.   

Sadly, it reminded me of Diana's funeral, when young William, Harry and Charles walked behind her coffin. Sigh....those boys were just so young when they lost their mother.

On 12/12/2017 at 9:25 PM, jschoolgirl said:

It was because of his career.

Yes, if MacMillian had even thought about divorcing his wife, he would have never been put in line as a possible candidate for Prime Minister. 

[dubbel zout]

16 minutes ago, vixenbynight said:

Sadly, it reminded me of Diana's funeral, when young William, Harry and Charles walked behind her coffin.

Same here. I wondered if that was one reason he said he'd walk with the boys if they did. 

The Profumo affair was really glossed over, but it did give the queen a chance to awesomely tell Macmillan that he was yet another in a "confederacy of quitters." 

On 12/9/2017 at 7:43 PM, millk said:

There was some time line fiddling here.

I think it's inevitable that happens, but I wish the show did a better job in general of telling us where it is in history. Elizabeth tells Macmillan she's been queen for nearly 10 years, but then you have to remember when she ascended the throne, and that's not a date most Americans, at least, have at their fingertips.

4 minutes ago, vixenbynight said:

if MacMillian had even thought about divorcing his wife, he would have never been put in line as a possible candidate for Prime Minister. 

I don't understand what was in it for Dorothy to stay married. She was a daughter of the ninth duke of Devonshire, so her social position was secure regardless.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dubbel zout
"it" is not the same as "if"

[Roseanna]

20 minutes ago, vixenbynight said:

Yes, if MacMillian had even thought about divorcing his wife, he would have never been put in line as a possible candidate for Prime Minister. 

Wikipedia says so, but Eden was divorced. 

15 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't understand what was in it for Dorothy to stay married. She was a daughter of the ninth duke of Devonshire, so her social position was secure regardless.

Quote

her relatives decided that, in order to end the embarrassing affair, a wife must be found for Boothy. After they had provided a suitable candidate - Dorothy's first cousin - a wedding date was set and the family breathed a collective sigh if relief. But their excultation was premature. Dorothy, determined to keep her lover, joined Boothby and his bride on the honeymoon.

For Cecil, the point of the story was less Dorothy's scandalous behavior than her husband's astonishing reaction. Rather than taking this latest humilation at his cue to send Dorothy packind once and for all, Macmillan continued to love her   

That's how Lord David Cecil told Kennedys in Barbara Leming's book Mrs Kennedy.

BTV, Dorothy was an aunt to the late Billy Hartington, the husband of President Kennedy's late sister Kathleen. 

[dubbel zout]

I hope this latest understanding/détente between Philip and Elizabeth means we've heard the end of (most of) the whining.

[lavenderblue]

I would heartily welcome a non-whiny Philip, and it would also be a nice segue into sort of the next phase of story for him, the whole "modernization" of the royal family angle that they touched on a little with him in the first season. I feel as though the final scenes could have pointed to a new role for him in the family, one that's more secure and more concerned with helping out, albeit in a tough manner, than complaining. That's an important facet of Real World Philip's efforts and it would be vastly more sympathetic for a modern audience than the constant emasculation angle.

I understand the show's refusal to explicitly state whether or not he cheated, but why on earth continually bring patently uninvolved real person Ulanova into it? That was another layer of off-putting on top of the myriad other things that bugged me regarding Philip's A storyline this season.

[AnnieBeez]

It seems pretty clear to me that he cheated. For instance in A Company of Men, he's shown  walking off holding hands with the island woman and putting his finger to his lips "shh." I think that it was pretty obvious. 

[portfino]

I do think the show's doing some hindsight history with MacMillan's health. My understanding is that in 1963 medicine, he doesn't quite have the clean bill of health. I haven't seen this interpretation, but I thought the Queen's speech to MacMillan was a Be Careful What You Wish For foreshadowing, with her emphasis on "men" and "staying the course." One thing that added to the controversy, which was under-discussed were the rumors that Margaret was sleeping with Douglas-Home's nephew.

The problem with Philip IMO is as much storytelling as the character. They keep repeating the same plotlines. Also, I think there's a genuine affection the writers have for QEII so in every dispute he has to come across looking like a heel. For instance, everyone says that Philip is the most powerful consort ever, which is wildly untrue. When people say that he knew what he was getting into, he may have thought he was getting the same role as Prince Albert. 

[Pallas]

On 12/16/2017 at 5:50 AM, portfino said:

When people say that he knew what he was getting into, he may have thought he was getting the same role as Prince Albert. 

And with Albert as the only precedent, why wouldn't he?  Philip had reason to believe he'd have something like the same role, and be given another decade or so of marriage before changing careers. In that role and over that interval -- with the backing of King George and Princess Elizabeth -- he might have stood a chance of gaining the grudging acceptance of the courtiers who run The Firm, instead of their defensive mistrust and calculated condescension.

The situation was infantilizing, as Philip said. How to support the Queen when you know that yours will never be the last opinion she solicits. That she will turn from you to an adviser, next. That your opinion -- drawn from your character and your experience of the world outside the Palace walls -- will always be over-ruled by the Queen's belief that it is her duty to honor precedent above all, and only as interpreted by others who have spent their working lives within the royal circuit. Whose living and status are derived by having more influence with her, by being more  essential to her, than you. To whom you are worth no more than a stud whose get, in their view, turned out not to inarguably enhance the line.

The last half hour of the finale was exhilarating. The slow build to Scotland and then the rushing together of the season's storylines and focus into an actual tableau vivant, elevated everything that came before. Like Seurat's bickering subjects freezing into history at the conclusion of Act I of Sunday in the Park with George. The Queen's reaching to take Philip's hand in gratitude for his finally finding and living his role: not another voice among her advisors, but her voice -- the voice she can never raise, but he can -- within her family and to her staff. Her own Great Dane, her liege companion of life and limb, towering among the many corgis.

[andromeda331]

The difference is Albert still did stuff. Yes, he had to deal with a lot of the same that Philip had to deal with. No one trusted him, liked him, he was foreigner, he wasn't allowed to help his wife in any of her duties. He started getting stuff to do. Not the big government stuff but organizing the palace, the nursery, and blotting her name but he did it and it was a start. He eventually got where he wanted to be. Philip on the other hand does nothing. He whines and complains. He doesn't look for places he could help or things he could do. He goes to parties and hangs out with friends. He wants everything given to him, handed to him and when it doesn't happen, well then he's not going to do anything. He could have taken that trip to Australia and really used it to lead to other things. When do we see Philip doing anything else? When do we see him helping and supporting his wife? Working? Doing anything? The only two cool moments with Philip was when he insisted on rescuing the fisherman and taking him home and telling Elizabeth to talk to Tommy about her uncle. Oh and he did actually listen later in that episode when he actually listened to Elizabeth when she was talking about forgiveness. They seem to want us to see Philip having a hard time or supportive or something but that's not what their showing us. They show us a man constantly whining and blaming his wife for everything then going out partying, drinking and possibly cheating on her.  

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, Pallas said:

The Queen's reaching to take Philip's hand in gratitude for his finally finding and living his role: not another voice among her staff, but her voice -- the voice she can never raise, but he can -- within her family and to her staff.

Too bad it took him a decade to figure that out. George VI told Philip that before he married Elizabeth, so it wasn't anything new. 

I'm glad Philip finally realized where he could truly support the queen and be valued for that support, but wow, it was a long road.

[Calvada]

A quibble - Charles was almost 16 when Edward was christened.  I'm not sure how old the actor is who was playing him, but he looks about 12 or 13.  

In real life, did the Queen head to Balmoral for an extended time while pregnant with Edward?  Was Andrew left in London with the nannies?  Also, I have read that the Queen was hoping for a girl.  They didn't show us the "it's a boy, Ma'am" though so no hint if she was disappointed.  

[Inquisitionist]

On 12/15/2017 at 3:50 PM, dubbel zout said:

Elizabeth tells Macmillan she's been queen for nearly 10 years,

I believe she says "barely 10 years", which is more accurate.  QEII's reign began in February 1952 (coronation in June 1953), and Macmillan resigned in October 1963.  She's now up to 13 prime ministers, though Harold Wilson served twice. Margaret Thatcher, the first female PM, served the longest at 11 1/2 years.

14 minutes ago, Calvada said:

A quibble - Charles was almost 16 when Edward was christened.  I'm not sure how old the actor is who was playing him, but he looks about 12 or 13.  

Yes, it's a quibble. I think they just used the same actor who played Charles in the previous episode, when the character was actually supposed to be 12 or 13.  It must be a bit of a nuisance to keep casting a new child actors for episodes where they don't even speak any lines.

Very nice conclusion to the season.  I will miss Claire Foy, too.  

[GaT]

I’ve been waiting for the “if only” since episode 1 :-)

I have to say I liked season 1 more than season 2. There was just too much of things & people I didn't care about. Too much Phillip, too much Margaret & Tony, not enough Elizabeth being a queen.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I found it hilarious that MacMillan was giving a press conference with all those dogs running around in the background.

When Elizabeth found out that Philip was leaving for St. Moritz while she was leaving for Balmoral, I was really hoping that she still hadn't told him he was pregnant and that he would find out by reading about it in the newspaper.

I love that one of the main things I have learned from this show is that "Shall we?" is a euphemism for GTFO/time to move your ass.

Claire was so beautifully backlit by the window when she was talking to MacMillan at the hospital.

Philip was driving me crazy again. "Don't punish me with silence." Oh, okay, but it's fine for you to punish your wife with sulking and whining and leaving the country without telling her. "All you need to do is ask." Or you could be an adult and just tell your wife where you're going without being asked - before she sees your packed suitcases. If he really believed that Elizabeth was his job, he's been doing a pretty crappy job at it. Waaaaaah, I have to travel around the world with my wife. Waaaaah, the mustaches don't like me so I need to be made a prince. And hey, I'm going to make digs about your father and your sister to make you feel even worse than you already do, just for good measure!