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S07.E09: One Little Tear


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1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

That was Damon and Carlton's decision. If it had been left to A&E, we'd have had the complete backstory of Frogurt in Season 7 (apparently Eddy was quite obsessed with it to the point where they had him write a mobisode on Frogurt). Meanwhile, in present day, he would turn out to be the candidate chosen by the MiB to fight the candidate chosen by Jacob. Light vs Dark. It's all there. :-p

Frogurt?  That sounds like something I'd pick up at the store for dessert.

But anyway, we're not really disagreeing.  A & E (or, to borrow one of my favorite Regina insults, "those two idiots") simply don't know when to quit.  They had the perfect wrap-up to this show last season and botched it because they were too stupid to understand what the viewers really wanted.  Now they're applying tiny bandaids to a show that is hemorraging so fast they'll be lucky to finish Season 7 at all -- and they have to know already that there's no way they'll get a Season 8.  I'm betting that after the winter break, they'll suddenly announce that it's their plan to end the show with this season and then practically kill themselves trying to write themselves out of the corner they've written themselves into with this storyline in order to wrap the show up on a note that won't leave what few viewers stick it out to the end vowing never to watch anything that these two have a hand in creating ever again.

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55 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I I suppose the Guardian is a good person, but you give it to the wrong person and they'd have complete control over you.  Great plan.

Although that's not the case without magic, as we saw in "The Return".

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

She was dressed in a servant's uniform, serving drinks at the party. The way Cecilia talked to her, she wasn't playing hostess, but rather was doing her regular job even though she could have taken the day off.

Maybe, maybe not. If so, I guess it was all she felt she could do around the place, rather than something imposed on her deliberately.

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

when she turned Ella into a servant (did she? We never really saw that part of the story),

Regina said she did when talking to Ella in "The Garden of Forking Paths" (hence the name Cinderella), after Raps turned the Fairy Godmother to dust in "Hyperion Heights" she told Drizella to tell Cinderella to clean it up.

By the way, I don't suppose we'll ever get an explanation of what the Fairy Godmother was doing there. Not very fairy-like to help someone attend a ball to assassinate someone. So did Ella lie to her?

34 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Frogurt?  That sounds like something I'd pick up at the store for dessert.

Yes, it's a dessert. Shorthand for frozen yogurt.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness
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3 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:
35 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Frogurt?  That sounds like something I'd pick up at the store for dessert.

Yes, it's a dessert. Shorthand for frozen yogurt.

He was one of the redshirts in LOST. He owned a Frozen Yogurt store--hence the nickname.

37 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

I'm betting that after the winter break, they'll suddenly announce that it's their plan to end the show with this season and then practically kill themselves trying to write themselves out of the corner they've written themselves into with this storyline in order to wrap the show up on a note that won't leave what few viewers stick it out to the end vowing never to watch anything that these two have a hand in creating ever again.

They'll insist after that on twitter and interviews that this had been their plan all along. But somehow, I doubt they'll strain their muscles trying to wrap all this mess up. A last-minute TLK or two will likely resolve everything. 

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1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

Which proves that A & E never learned a damn thing from why that show lost viewers over time.  Only at least then they finally knew enough to quit while they were still marginally ahead.

What's odd is that TRON: Uprising had no such problems with its logic. I guess it didn't last long enough to. Like if Once Upon a Time had been cancelled after the first season.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness
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1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Although that's not the case without magic, as we saw in "The Return".

Going by "The Return", what's the point of testing the Dagger out with Tiana in a Land Without Magic?

 

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Maybe, maybe not. If so, I guess it was all she felt she could do around the place, rather than something imposed on her deliberately.

Which brings it back to the original point, why didn't this kickass female get a different job.  

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While Gothel is a better villain than Victoria, she's not impressing me as much as I thought she would now that we've seen her in flashback.  Even her "look" isn't that great.  She looks a little too glammed up.  I know Gothel was vain and looking for youth, but still, something about the look doesn't make her very intimidating or epic.  Part of it is tying Gothel to The Guardian stuff makes her motivation rather lame.  Does she have multiple towers with random women she's trying out as possible Guardians?  Because given her shoddy selection methods, many women could apply.

While it was a surprising twist for Lady Tremaine to be Rapunzel (if not for this forum, I would have been very surprised), this melding of the two characters is very much "in name only".  Lady Tremaine has zero qualities of the Rapunzel in the original fairytale or the Tangled movie.  Rapunzel is often shown as a girl who yearned to see the world outside.  Heck, they could have made Lady Tremaine the Countess of Monte Cristo who came back to see her engaged fiancé married to someone else.  Maybe they will tell this story later, but Drizella and Anastasia were hardly The Ugly Stepsisters since they all got along.  

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10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

She looks a little too glammed up.  I know Gothel was vain and looking for youth, but still, something about the look doesn't make her very intimidating or epic.

She looks like a poser hippy. Which is about the least intimidating thing possible. Even evil crazy cat lady would be scarier. 

I cannot wrap my head at all around the idea that Rapunzel, who would do anything to save the life of her husband, who risked her life climbing out of the tower to get back to her family, who would basically wait on her husbands new wife to be close to her family turned out to be Lady Tremaine/Victoria Belfrey. There needs to be a scene somewhere down the line that shows that she had her heart ripped out of her body, or LT/VB is a clone and not the real Rapunzel because it just does not compute. 

I mean, I totally got how the young Regina who risked her life to save a total stranger, Snow, turned into the Evil Queen. They made an effort to show how she evolved into a heartless murderer. Two very evil people spent years pulling the evil side out of her. I'd say they need to make more of an effort, but I don't care for this version of Rapunzel much more than I care for this version of Tremaine, so I really don't care. 

I do get why Druzilla is bent on revenge against her mother, not so much her extreme way of doing it, but at least I understand in one simple scene why she is the way she is. When he mother ran into Ana's arms then from there, straight to her husbands arms without much acknowledgement that she even had another daughter standing right there. That would make me hate my mother. 

I would still rather the show focus shift to Whook/Alice, Sabine, hell, I'd even take Henry and Roni's road trip over the saga of the Tremaine's. The only one in that whole family I like is evil Ivy. haha the rest can all just go away and I wouldn't miss them or wonder what their story was going to be. They can take "do I know or not" Weaverumple with them. 

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4 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

She looks like a poser hippy. Which is about the least intimidating thing possible. Even evil crazy cat lady would be scarier. 

LOL.  In the flashback scene where the wind was blowing in the garden, and Gothel was standing there in her hood, it looked like they were filming a magazine photo shoot.  

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45 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Part of it is tying Gothel to The Guardian stuff makes her motivation rather lame. 

It's lame because we don't know why she's after the Guardian. I suppose they will reveal it in a later flashback, but scraps of non-information aren't enough to keep me caring. I do think the Gothel actress is one of the better ones of the new cast, but that's not saying much. She's just one among a line of villains going against Rumple. 

30 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I cannot wrap my head at all around the idea that Rapunzel, who would do anything to save the life of her husband, who risked her life climbing out of the tower to get back to her family, who would basically wait on her husbands new wife to be close to her family turned out to be Lady Tremaine/Victoria Belfrey.

And conspire to kill her husband and turn into a ruthless murderer. Again, I suppose we'll be fed this information at a later date, but A&E's usual tactics of relaying information in miniature doses is the wrong approach for a season when the audience is already restless. 

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15 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

but A&E's usual tactics of relaying information in miniature doses is the wrong approach for a season when the audience is already restless. 

Yeah, that only really works when we care about the characters. Now, with the original show, the combination of it being a fresh new concept, the general charm and ability of the cast (plus wonderful chemistry not just romantically but almost every pairing be it romantic, friends, co-workers or enemies felt real, the characters felt real and connected) and the fact that we already knew these characters, Snow White, Prince Charming, The Evil Queen, and were curious about who else we were going to meet, had us invested enough to wait for answers. 

I have to confess. I haven't seen the full episode yet. Half way through I got bored and bleached my hair instead. By the time I was done OnDemand had shut down and if I wanted to keep going I was going to have to make an effort to go to my saved programs and start it up again and I realized....nah. I'll just channel surf. This is because I just don't care enough about Tremaine to know what silly reason they came up with to make her a poor misunderstood villain. I don't care enough about Gothel who is just a walking, talking mop to me. I don't care enough about Muderella, unless she dies. I do want to see Lucy die, it seems from what I read here that she does, at least temporarily, so I guess I will finish the ep if only for that. 

I just feel like this season is running around chasing it's tail. And the writers are too busy patting themselves on the back for what they think is clever to actually be clever. 

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I was too tired last night to write about the present-day scenes, which overall was worse than the flashbacks.  It was basically the exciting quest of Victoria retrieving her giant handbag from a mausoleum so she could make a little girl cry.

I actually didn't find the Jacinda scenes in this episode that bad.  But really, is she not aware of legal aid?  Victoria's plan hinged on the fact that she would call Nick, that they would look at the papers in the apartment, that they would kiss, and that the kiss would be right in front of her Spy Cam.  Fool-proof plan right there, Victoria.  

They are clearly trying to generate so much tension between the scenes with Weaver and the various Villainous women, but they all fell flat.  In the Sneak Peek, Victoria in jail told Weaver she only talked to Drizellla so she could talk to Weaver.  Huh?  It still doesn't make any sense.  What does one have to do with the other?  

I also find it unbelievable that everyone and their grandma knows that Rumple was looking for The Guardian.  We're supposed to simultaneously see Rumple as a master manipulator and yet be sloppy enough to show off his weird dagger to random do-gooders and let the evil women know exactly what he's up to? 

He said Ivy should learn to tail people better, but could he be any more obvious when he was looking at Ivy's car parked across the street?

I forsee a future episode with more nonsensical universe crossing when we find out Gothel's history with Rumple and how she knows Belle.

Speaking of which, since when does pulling the fire alarm make the Evidence Room door open?  That's dumb even by this show's standards.  And does Weaver not have his own apartment?  Why would he keep all his personal stuff in the Evidence Room, which, last time I checked, was a SHARED space.  

The Rogers/Weaver scene didn't get to me at the end either, because why didn't Weaver just give his sob story earlier to get Rogers off his back?  Roger's whole "search" was just to create artificial tension and conflict which ultimately was filler for this episode.  Because how does it develop either character in any way?

It looks like Ivy has no idea about the past between Gothel and Tremaine.  Which makes no sense.

The Rumple apologist is strong in whoever wrote this episode.  When Tremaine asked Rumple if he would pay the costs for a reunion, he said, "I did... and then some."  Yeah, suuuuuuure you did.  

The problem with the big climax of this episode with Lucy losing her belief is that her belief was never truly explained or defined, and we don't care enough about the character to be moved by her losing her belief.  It's not like her belief has done anything except cause a few flowers to grow which was only used by a villain.  We don't care if Jacinda ends up with Nick or Henry.  I don't even care what happens to Lucy.  I would choose Anastasia over Lucy because the former seems to have more potential for story but I know she'll be the sacrifice that A&E demanded to make us care about Poor Trepunzel and Loserzella.  

Edited by Camera One
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7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

We don't care if Jacinda ends up with Nick or Henry.

I care that Nick ends up with Henry more than that Jacinda is inflicted upon either of them. 

 

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I would choose Anastasia over Lucy

I just finished watching and thought "I bet they expect us to all hate Victoria even more for "killing" poor little Lucy" when in reality, it made me almost like Victoria a wee bit better. I'm thinking Anastasia will be more interesting than Lucy and as long as her story isn't "some random writer is really my dad no matter how little sense it makes", I'm 100% sure she will be better than Lucy. I'm thinking she will be the Guardian and Victoria will have to fight Gothel over her or something. IDK I still don't get why Gothel is looking for the Guardian. 

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17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The Rumple apologist is strong in whoever wrote this episode.  When Tremaine asked Rumple if he would pay the costs for a reunion, he said, "I did... and then some."  Yeah, suuuuuuure you did.  

I was rolling my eyes so hard at that. 

7 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

some random writer is really my dad no matter how little sense it makes

This episode just muddied that issue even more. Lucy wasn't living in a place where time was frozen like Henry was--it's the real Seattle with real world people, who presumably aged as normal. People weren't doing repetitive tasks day after day. What on earth clued her to it? Henry's fake book ends with him meeting with alternate Cinderella. There's nothing there to tell her that her mother is Cinderella from that, or that Henry is her father. Or that half the people in HH were from a magical realm. It makes zero sense. 

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48 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The Rumple apologist is strong in whoever wrote this episode.  When Tremaine asked Rumple if he would pay the costs for a reunion, he said, "I did... and then some."  Yeah, suuuuuuure you did. 

Aargh. His whole plan was about making sure someone else (Regina) paid the price for the curse. Not to mention everyone he stepped on along the way to obtain it and put Regina in a place where she'd want to cast it.

50 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It's not like her belief has done anything except cause a few flowers to grow which was only used by a villain.

Different flowers.

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The more I think about this, the more idiotic it is that Lucy shed One Little Tear.  Yes, I know she's a little girl, but her big theory about the book was just confirmed definitively, so who cares if her mom kissed her fake dad?  If anything, she'd double down on her quest to get her parents to remember.  

Meanwhile, Ivy had her mother followed everywhere and Victoria got caught red-handed with Eloise, yet she was so ultra-sneaky that no one knew she took Anastasia to the hospital?  

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5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I mean, I totally got how the young Regina who risked her life to save a total stranger, Snow, turned into the Evil Queen. They made an effort to show how she evolved into a heartless murderer. Two very evil people spent years pulling the evil side out of her. I'd say they need to make more of an effort, but I don't care for this version of Rapunzel much more than I care for this version of Tremaine, so I really don't care. 

It did take them a while to fill in the blanks on Regina. Presumably there's more to the story on Rapunzel. I'd thought they'd do like in Tangled, where she had magic due to her hair, and when it was cut, she lost the magic and had a short brown bob -- not unlike Victoria's current style. That would fit with what she said about not relying on magic because you could lose it. But she still has long, blond hair at the end of the flashback, with no sign of magical powers, unless she got them from the potion she got from Gothel. And then how does Drizella have magic?

What I can't get my mind around is a mother hating her daughter because a 10-year-old who hadn't seen her mother since she was 4 didn't warm to her instantly upon her return -- when her mother didn't even acknowledge her existence in their reunion. That was supposedly good Rapunzel who didn't notice Drizella (and apparently took offense when Drizella didn't run straight to her). She could have re-established a relationship with her daughter, but it looks like she didn't even try and then got mad when Drizella wasn't close to her.

So, I guess Lady Tremaine got her title from her husband. Was he always Lord or Sir Tremaine, or did that happen later? They were poor enough to be stealing food from a garden (or was it just that he was weak and hungry and there wasn't a franchise of Ye Olde Tavern nearby?). Did he earn the wealth and title in the six years she was away, or was that part of Gothel's magic? If it was due to the magic, and therefore due to Rapunzel's sacrifice, that makes his "well, sorry, but I've moved on" attitude upon her return even worse.

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26 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

So, I guess Lady Tremaine got her title from her husband. Was he always Lord or Sir Tremaine, or did that happen later? They were poor enough to be stealing food from a garden (or was it just that he was weak and hungry and there wasn't a franchise of Ye Olde Tavern nearby?). Did he earn the wealth and title in the six years she was away, or was that part of Gothel's magic? If it was due to the magic, and therefore due to Rapunzel's sacrifice, that makes his "well, sorry, but I've moved on" attitude upon her return even worse.

In the first scene, Rapunzel said Marcus was a tailor (I had to rewind three times and then use closed captioning to figure out what she said).  So did Marcus get the title from Cecilia?  It could also be part of Gothel's magic as well since Rapunzel did wish for her family to have a better life.

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1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

That would fit with what she said about not relying on magic because you could lose it.

That was what I thought about that line, too.

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

And then how does Drizella have magic?

And why did Drizella say there was magic in Anastasia's body that belongs to her? Or was Anastasia also born with magic, and Drizella feels entitled to it?

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

In the first scene, Rapunzel said Marcus was a tailor (I had to rewind three times and then use closed captioning to figure out what she said).  So did Marcus get the title from Cecilia?  It could also be part of Gothel's magic as well since Rapunzel did wish for her family to have a better life.

I think it was related to the deal with Gothel. The way Gothel mentioned Marcus and Cecelia's manor house to Rapunzel when talking about how comfortably they were living following her deal implied it was a result. Or came from Marcus's marriage to Cecelia, which was possible because he didn't die.

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I guess they must be waiting for the next flashback to reveal the story of Drizella being born with magic and her mother trying to stop her from learning it?  As said above, when previously mentioned details are completely absent in a flashback, it seems like a continuity error, when it probably isn't (though there is an outside chance it is... after all, TS,TW).

Edited by Camera One
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I never doubted that Marcus' status and money were a result of Rapunzel's deal with Gothel because that is the kind of stuff these writers get off on. "you gave up everything for your family to be happy and now you will turn evil!" muahhhahaa

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

I guess they must be waiting for the next flashback to reveal the story of Drizella being born with magic and her mother trying to stop her from learning it? 

My guess is the writers haven't thought about how/why Drizella has magic. They wanted her to, so she does. 

I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that Lady Tremaine is Cinderella's step-step mother? Like, why make it so forking convoluted? 

When I think about logic and this show I feel like a small child bothering my mother with questions. "Why this, why that?" "Because I said so! That's why!" 

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40 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that Lady Tremaine is Cinderella's step-step mother? Like, why make it so forking convoluted? 

Yup. Why not make her the biological child of Marcus and his second wife? After all, Rapunzel was gone for 6 years. That would make Marcus look less like a douchecanoe for sticking with his second wife. Anastasia stepping onto the frozen lake to save her little sister's life would have been even more poignant, as would the fact that Marcus had ended up going for the youngest child. Saving the life of his step-daughter over his bio daughter is something Snow would do and call "heroic". 

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So, its time for the inevitable "Villains sad backstory" episode, and I guess it was alright. Tremaine being Rapunzel isn't an awful backstory (even if I continue to roll my eyes at how many heroes are turned into villains for the purposes of plot on this show) and I did feel sorry for her, but I feel like we must have missed a few developments, or that some thing escalate here and there.  Rapunzel escaped, made it home, then they had her live in the guest house? Then she was a caterer or something? Then she hated her husbands new wife? Then she lost her favorite daughter, and started hating her step daughter because...reasons? Then she got magic powers and became a super villain at some point? And, again, she hates Ella because? Like, I have no clue how Ella is in any way responsible for what happened to Anastasia. If anything, she should just be pissed at her husband. But, I guess being driven to murderous hatred towards random people instead of people who actually screwed them over is a time honored tradition on this show. I mean, Ella didn't even tell a secret or anything here! She just almost died. 

Its amazing how little I care about Murderella and Lucy. Like, I could write epic poetry based around how little I care. I am now kind of interested in how Drizzella came to hate Ella so much (they seemed close as kids, and she loved Ella's mom) but thats mainly because she`s played by the best actress of the newbies. Well, I like Sabine's actress too, but she doesn't get to do much. 

Does the comment about the bayou mean this whole land is set in some magical, medieval Louisiana? Can we talk about that instead of boring love triangles, that actually sounds interesting! Also, I cant believe I am watching TWO shows with plots involving a woman being separated from her husband/boyfriend only for them to be reunited after he already has a new wife, and its super awkward! Why is this a thing?!?!

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19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

In Episode 3, resurrecting Anastasia required The Heart of the Truest Believer.   But now, resurrecting Anastasia requires some Tears of Belief.   Alternate recipe?

Needs a heart full of belief or for someone to lose their belief. Heart ripping is more fatal but easier to accomplish, but Victoria mentioned to Gothel in their first scene together that Lucy and Henry's hearts are protected, so Plan B.

46 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

even if I continue to roll my eyes at how many heroes are turned into villains for the purposes of plot on this show

Peter Pan, King Arthur and Jack are at least easy to villainize based on their original stories. This is literally a hero turning into a villain.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness
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3 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Or the Rapunzel of yet a third Enchanted Forest in the book of a third Author.

And see, now I want to see a battle of the Rapunzels, where 3-5 Rapunzels from different Enchanted Forests all end up in the land without magic and duke it out over who is the REAL Rapunzel. I'm pretty sure it would be better than what we're getting this season.

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Quote

What exactly was she planning to do after resurrecting her sister? Kill her? Curse her?

I was thinking she was going to resurrect her, and then kill her in front of Victoria. 

Quote

And like I said before, she was already favoring Anastasia over Drizella when the children were young, not even bothering to acknowledge Drizella when she returned.

I want to say that she did try to reach out to Drizella, but Drizella showed little interest in having a relationship.  I'm not saying that would justify Victoria's actions, but I do think they showed her at least trying to make some effort and being rebuffed. 

Edited by txhorns79
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This Dark Curse is such a freaking joke. Now Victoria is speaking to Lucy about it openly and WHook is assisting Rumple in his search for the Guardian. Sure, Alice/WHook and Henry/Jacinda are memoryless, but they're all free to be together. It's not like Jacinda is bound to be with Nick like David was to Kathryn. They're all exercising free will. Their circumstances are not all that different from what they were pre-curse. I don't understand the purpose of this curse at all. Couldn't Ivy exact revenge on her mother in the Alternate Forest? Why did they all need to go to the Land Without Magic? Hyperion Heights is so pointless.

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5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I want to say that she did try to reach out to Drizella, but Drizella showed little interest in having a relationship.  I'm not saying that would justify Victoria's actions, but I do think they showed her at least trying to make some effort and being rebuffed. 

Considering that when Rapunzel returned, she and Anastasia ran straight to each other, and Rapunzel never so much as looked at Drizella, it didn't seem like Rapunzel much cared, and considering that they did focus on Drizella's face when she was ignored, that must have started Drizella's resentment. It came across like all Rapunzel cared about was Anastasia. Then Victoria told Ivy she hadn't been a daughter since she was four, so it was like she blamed her child for not running to her when she returned.

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Rapunzel completely ignored Drizella when she came back, and that set the tone for Drizella's subsequent behavior. And then, her step-mother disappeared (seemingly of her own free will), and after that, she lost a sister. 

26 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I guess this show is just really good at showing the complexities of family dynamics.

They either nailed it, or completely blew it in this instance. lol

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Gothel really isn't too bright.

She says, "Many people come here in an attempt to steal my magic. And yet, here you are selflessly risking my ire for radishes.  It's rare to find a flower that can grow amongst the weeds of human nature."

Uh, Rapunzel didn't even know you owned the garden or you had magic before you announced it, so that's not really a test of true character.  And if anyone is a "weed of human nature", you are.

Meanwhile, Rapunzel's declaration that "I'll apologize for taking some food but I won't apologize for trying to help my family" was totally presumptuous.  Who asked her to apologize for helping her family.

Big surprise no one cares about these characters when they aren't likeable at all.

Edited by Camera One
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10 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

This Dark Curse is such a freaking joke.

And that is the problem. In the beginning the Dark Curse was something that was meant to be terrifying, powerful, unique. Now it feels like there must be a Dark Curse sale at Walmart. Everyone is casting one. Just like everyone seems to have a way to move around from realm to realm which used to be almost impossible. All the wonder and impossibility has been taken out of the evil/darkness. Now it all just seems so silly. "I can't get to Wish Realm" "Really? I've been there three times this week." It's all so pedestrian now.

 

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

Uh, Rapunzel didn't even know you owned the garden or you had magic before you announced it, so that's not really a test of true character.

Hahahaha, yeah, this. Rapunzel saw a garden someone else clearly created and stole stuff from it. For all she knew, that was the only food the person living there had to eat for the week. Not exactly a testament to strong character to steal things that aren't yours, no matter what they are.

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12 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

And that is the problem. In the beginning the Dark Curse was something that was meant to be terrifying, powerful, unique. Now it feels like there must be a Dark Curse sale at Walmart. Everyone is casting one. Just like everyone seems to have a way to move around from realm to realm which used to be almost impossible. All the wonder and impossibility has been taken out of the evil/darkness. Now it all just seems so silly. "I can't get to Wish Realm" "Really? I've been there three times this week." It's all so pedestrian now.

Agreed. It used to be so hard to enact a Dark Curse that it took Rumple a century to do it. Now, either he's the first one to figure it out and just passed the recipe along to every person after him, or they just decided to say "screw it" to continuity. I get that it's very much the latter. Also, the realm jumping is annoying after it had been so hard back in season 1. Now, suddenly, everyone and their pets can do it. 

I totally expect Regina to be using her magic to stop Drizella by the end of the season, even though it was specified that Drizella/Ivy only had a limited amount of magic to use it to wake Regina up. 

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One more item in the Rumple Sucks category: he was working with Victoria to find Lucy to use her to revive Anastasia. Victoria even referred to her as his great-granddaughter (and it shows how far I've gone into the "Lucy isn't really Henry's daughter" conspiracy theory hole that it took me a while to figure out how Lucy was Rumple's great-granddaughter. I was trying to figure out how he managed to get inserted into the complicated Tremaine family and forgot about him being Henry's grandfather and Henry supposedly being Lucy's father). Did Mr. "All Magic Comes at a Price" not realize there could be bad effects on Lucy from being used in this spell or that destroying her belief would be cruel? Or did the supposedly totally good and pure-hearted Rumple sell out his great-granddaughter so he could be reunited with Belle? Really, he sold out his great-granddaughter so he could learn how to die and maybe be reunited with his wife in the afterlife (as though he wouldn't go straight to the bad place or get stuck doing penance in the Underworld for a while).

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42 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

And he pulled Cinderella out of the water, but he didn't go back and try to get Anastasia? I get that the water was freezing, but he apparently dragged Cinderella up and then said there was no way to rescue Anastasia? WTH? Might have been more believable if he actually tried.

That was killing me. While he was bobbing around in the water with Ella I'm all, um, two went under dude, maybe you want to go at least try to get the other one? It really came across as Marcus choosing his new family over his old one. Like, Why do I need Anastasia when I have shiny new Cinderella to play with? I'd say Marcus is the worst, but there's a LOT of competition on this show so I'll just say he's an ass who is going to have to try a lot harder for Shittiest Parent of the Year, but he did get himself on the ballot.

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3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Now, either he's the first one to figure it out and just passed the recipe along to every person after him, or they just decided to say "screw it" to continuity.

Ever since Pan's attempt in Season 3, I've been wondering what happened to needing hairs from the heads of those with the darkest souls as ingredients. Especially since I liked the scene with the ogre, witch and gnome all gathered with Regina to cast the curse in the dark woods.

2 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

So I read a summary and didn't watch but a few clips, but Marcus doesn't seem like much of a catch. He's not even Cinderella's father? So how is Victoria her stepmother?

She's her step-stepmother. Marcus and Rapunzel were married and had Anastasia and Drizella. After Gothel imprisoned Rapunzel and faked her death, Marcus re-married to Cecelia, Ella's mother, and he was the only father Ella knew. Rapunzel escaped after six years in the tower and came home to find Marcus and Cecelia raising Anastasia, Drizella and Ella together. Rapunzel did drudge work and lived in a smaller house near their manor home for some years after that so she could see her daughters, until she secretly used the Curse of the Poisoned Heart on Cecelia (hearing Drizella call Cecelia "Mother" when thanking her for a birthday gift was the last straw) and became Marcus's official wife again. Gothel had given her the poisonous mushroom as a test of character.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness
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54 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

she secretly used the Curse of the Poisoned Heart on Cecelia

Something I've been wondering: We know Cecelia went to Wonderland to get away from Marcus because of the poisoned heart curse. But how did she know about the curse and how to deal with it? It looked like Rapunzel just slipped it into her drink. So, if she didn't know about it, wouldn't she just have kissed or hugged Marcus, and then one of them would have died, or at least kind of keeled over in pain like happened with WHook? But without someone telling her what happened, how would she have known she needed to run off to Wonderland? And wouldn't both of them have to be poisoned for it to work on a particular couple? Or did she get some kind of generic poison that made her die if she hugged or kissed anyone she loved? Did Gothel pop up and tell Cecelia what happened, and so she ran off without telling her family? If Rapunzel told her about it, wouldn't Cecelia have told her family about it rather than just letting them think she left them?

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Just now, Shanna Marie said:

Something I've been wondering: We know Cecelia went to Wonderland to get away from Marcus because of the poisoned heart curse. But how did she know about the curse and how to deal with it? It looked like Rapunzel just slipped it into her drink. So, if she didn't know about it, wouldn't she just have kissed or hugged Marcus, and then one of them would have died, or at least kind of keeled over in pain like happened with WHook? But without someone telling her what happened, how would she have known she needed to run off to Wonderland? And wouldn't both of them have to be poisoned for it to work on a particular couple? Or did she get some kind of generic poison that made her die if she hugged or kissed anyone she loved?

Ella said she saw a mark on her father like the one on Alice, which indicates they touched non-fatally at some point before Cecelia fled. They've never been clear on how specific the poison is.

2 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Did Gothel pop up and tell Cecelia what happened, and so she ran off without telling her family? If Rapunzel told her about it, wouldn't Cecelia have told her family about it rather than just letting them think she left them?

Gothel telling her or her doing research seems likely. Not telling her family what was going on is par for the course for this show's logic.

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19 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Gothel telling her or her doing research seems likely. Not telling her family what was going on is par for the course for this show's logic.

I guess she was taking the high road and allowing her family to find happiness without her, but that qualifies as Stupid Good (par for the course on this show). If she knew it was Rapunzel, that meant she was leaving her kid with a murderer. Rapunzel already took action to get rid of Cecelia. What would she do to Cecelia's child? If she didn't know it was Rapunzel, she still left her daughter thinking she'd been abandoned. If she had to run away, why go all the way to Wonderland instead of lurking in hiding nearby, where she could keep an eye on her daughter and keep her safe?

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As long as the cursed don't actually touch they are okay though? Or is it a proximity thing? I thought, Alice and Hook were fine until they touched. So theoretically, Cecelia could have stayed, just not touched Marcus. She could have sacrificed getting busy with the hubby to be a mother to her child. But nah, run away, that makes more sense. At least the way parenthood works on this show.

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7 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That was killing me. While he was bobbing around in the water with Ella I'm all, um, two went under dude, maybe you want to go at least try to get the other one? It really came across as Marcus choosing his new family over his old one. Like, Why do I need Anastasia when I have shiny new Cinderella to play with? I'd say Marcus is the worst, but there's a LOT of competition on this show so I'll just say he's an ass who is going to have to try a lot harder for Shittiest Parent of the Year, but he did get himself on the ballot.

I was asking why Rapunzel didn't dive into the water herself since she's all about family.  It's not like Marcus could have carried both.

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4 hours ago, Camera One said:

I was asking why Rapunzel didn't dive into the water herself since she's all about family.

Which now consists solely of Anastasia since she refuses to apply it to Drizella, Ella or Lucy (let alone poor dead Marcus), making it a weird motto.

Edited by Noneofyourbusiness
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