S07.E09: One Little Tear

[formerlyfreedom]

Victoria strikes a deal with Weaver in an attempt to free herself from jail and wake Anastasia, but the cost of saving one life could mean the loss of another. In a flashback, we learn Lady Tremaine's surprising connection to another classic fairytale when Mother Gothel offers to help her family. Meanwhile, Jacinda and Nick share an exchange that could alter her future with Henry.

 

[KingOfHearts]

That was just a bunch of things we've seen a million times before. While I felt bad for Rapunzel's dilemma, it wasn't enough to extrapolate how she became a heartless bitch in the present. There's still a firm disconnect between Tremaine and her younger counterpart. Drizella didn't seem that mean in the flashback, and her step-mother seemed nice, so I'm not sure how she became so cold and petty. All in all, Gabrielle Anwar did not sell her role that well and I don't think any better of Victoria after this episode. She was a straight-up villain with no redeemable qualities, and all of a sudden we're supposed to believe she's been Rapunzel all this time. I get why she has disdain for Drizella and Jacinda now, but other than that... meh. I don't care about her quest to resurrect Anastasia. It just makes so little sense.

Lucy last episode: "Oh. This is just the Kathryn love triangle thing. Everything will be fine."
Lucy this episode: "My mom kissed him?! I no longer believe in heroes any more!"

Is it bad I wouldn't care if Lucy just stayed dead?

[Rumsy4]

Cry me a river of Lost Souls, Rumple. Your sad woobie-face stopped working on me three seasons ago.

So--Lucy doesn't remember anything--so what was she basing her beliefs on? And why did she lose her belief after seeing her mom kissing Nick? It's really convenient that the hidden camera zoomed in at the right spot at the right time, eh?

I did like the Rapunzel/Tremaine back-story. He husband is not a very sympathetic man. I wouldn't have wanted him back after his cold treatment of her once she's returned.

So, both Gothel and Rumple are looking for the Guardian. It's either Anastasia or Alice. 

[KingOfHearts]

2 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Cry me a river of Lost Souls, Rumple. Your sad woobie-face stopped working on me three seasons ago.

Rumple really grates on me. Carlyle is trying to be some Sparkle/Gold hybrid, then turn around with Wooby!Weaver. He's just so tired and his character has nowhere else to go.\

Quote

I did like the Rapunzel/Tremaine back-story.

I thought, in a vacuum, it was good. If you take away Victoria/Tremaine, Rapunzel is not a bad character at all. It just takes a ton of elements we've seen already from other villain backstories.

[cappoe]

You know a part of me was thinking why would Adam and Eddy do this and I was like you know what, they've ripped off so many pop culture things lets add an epic Witch showdown ala Harry Potter magic dueling.

So remember all those rules to learning magic Rumple said in S1/S2? Yeah none of that clearly applies anymore.

And I have to ask this makes learning magic about as special as being The Savior which Adam and Eddy tried to ruin last season by telling us Emma is not the only Savior.  

And The Guardian is clearly this flops version of The Savior. I'm sure they were planning on calling it The Savior but because the fans outrage about a new Savior made them call it a different name.

Cancellation can't come soon enough for this show. It's just convoluted timelines, plot twists for shock value not for organic storytelling, and meh characters and setting. 

These writers have lost their spark, it's more then evident now.

[Rumsy4]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I thought, in a vacuum, it was good. If you take away Victoria/Tremaine, Rapunzel is not a bad character at all. It just takes a ton of elements we've seen already from other villain backstories.

Like you said, it certainly makes sense as to why Tremaine prefers Anastasia to her other daughter, and why she despises Ella. But it doesn't go far enough to establish the personality shift. Maybe another flashback will show that. I'm still not impressed with the actress who plays Tremaine, but she was marginally better in this episode. 

The Gothel-Weaver confrontation just reminded me of Rumple-Ingrid and a dozen other scenes between Rumple and yet another female villain. 

[Worsel]

My random thoughts during this episode:

They have paved roads in the Enchanted Forest?  I always thought it would be dirt paths.  (from the opening scene with the carriage)

How did Rapunzel manage to keep braiding her hair?  Or did the tower help keep it braided by magic?  And why is she working as a serving girl at Drizella’s birthday party?  It seems to me she should have been collecting alimony from her husband.

My reaction to all scenes with Jacinda: Zzzzzzzzzz…..

I am disappointed that Weaver has turned into a chauffeur and doesn’t seem as menacing as I had hoped for this season.

Gothel enjoys psychological experiments.  And pushing magic mushrooms.  And trying to find the Guardian.  Groovy!

[cappoe]

Quote

My reaction to all scenes with Jacinda: Zzzzzzzzzz…..

She's the worse part of this reboot. By far.

[Camera One]

I'm still waiting for the show, but seven little tears for only seven replies in the Eastern Time Zone.  

[Worsel]

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I'm still waiting for the show, but seven little tears for only seven replies in the Eastern Time Zone.  

Does being bored to tears during every scene with Jacinda count as an eighth?

[Noneofyourbusiness]

37 minutes ago, cappoe said:

And The Guardian is clearly this flops version of The Savior. I'm sure they were planning on calling it The Savior but because the fans outrage about a new Savior made them call it a different name.

I doubt that, or Rumple could have gone to Emma for his dagger problem.

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, Worsel said:

Does being bored to tears during every scene with Jacinda count as an eighth?

Add mine and make it nine. She really has negative chemistry with everyone.

2 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I doubt that, or Rumple could have gone to Emma for his dagger problem.

Umm... :-p

Edited December 9, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Lady Calypso]

Man, when are we going to get a Jacinda-free episode? Now, everyone but her has missed an episode, right? 

I was just shaking my head at most of the scenes. First off, it seems like this was the first episode they had an idea of what they were doing with Victoria/Tremaine/now Rapunzel, so that was a nice change. Too bad little of it made sense. The scene of her giving Jacinda custody back made no sense. So....it was just a test to see if she'd do anything with the papers the first time around? Really? 

Also, nice to finally get a Lucy/Victoria scene, after nine episodes of her living with said step-mother. But....Lucy knows nothing from the other world, but she still believes in her mom and Henry....why? Where did she possibly get that information and made the connection, anyway? And it only took seeing her mom kiss Nick that it stopped her belief? What?  

Rapunzel's story in itself wasn't too bad. I actually liked her in parts, but the connection with Victoria in the present day wasn't really there. 

So, we learn that Rumple's been....what, shoving his dagger at anyone who he runs into? But then he lost his dagger? Or something? I guess I wasn't paying full attention, which isn't rare with this show. 

I will say, the Rumple/Not Wish Hook scene at the end was decent enough. But the idea that Rumple's looking for a way to pass along his dagger so he can kill himself is still quite dark. I'd laugh if he accomplishes his goal, but Belle's not even there, but with Bae in some other afterlife. Speaking of Bae, it was nice to get a reference for him. Sometimes, Rumple likes to forget about him because it's been about Belle. 

So....I'm going to throw out some random guess for who the Guardian is: it's gonna be Jacinda. Why? Because....they want to attempt to keep her and Henry separate longer? Or maybe the Guardian will be Lucy. Or....or, hell, I don't care anymore. Correction: I never cared.

Surprisingly, didn't really miss Regina/Roni or Henry. I noticed they were missing from the episode 7 minutes in and groaned when I realized this would mean more Jacinda. Luckily, not a lot of Jacinda.  

I'm fine if Lucy stays dead. Unfortunately, I have a feeling we might get a father-daughter wake up kiss, like Emma's kiss to Henry. I guess because they'll want to prove to Henry that he is Lucy's father? I'm still holding out hope that he's not.

[thuganomics85]

Ah, so in typical Once Upon A Time fashion, nothing is truly what it seems with their characters and sure enough, it turns out that Victoria is actually Rapunzel, who was unwittingly trapped by Gothel in that tower in order to save her husband and Anastasia and Drizella, and by the time she escapes, he has moved on and married Cinderella's mom.  So Rapunzel tries to co-exist and make nice at first, but between Drizella's coldness (because she was too young to remember Rapunzel), and seeing how much closer Cinderella's mom is to her own daughters, she breaks down and uses a magical mushroom that Gothel gave her, to chase her off.  Oh, and it turns out the reason Anastasia got into her little accident was to try and save Cinderella from falling into the ice, so that's why she resents Cinderella so much.  And this was all just a test by Gothel to see if Rapunzel was the Guardian.  I got all that, right?  Either way, while it explains some of her motivations, it really doesn't explain why Victoria is so stone-cold heartless now.  Maybe the problem is just that Gabrielle Anwar (who I liked a lot in Burn Notice) is just too one-note here.

My heart must be black as the night, because I was howling over how easily Lucy got played by Victoria, and then Jacinda's poorly acted freakout when she collapsed.  Of course, poorly acted describes every Jacinda scene.

I swear, is poor Tiana going to do anything other then reaction shots, being the "supportive friend", or deliver exposition?

While not the best written thing, I do enjoy the Weaver/Rodgers stuff, because Robert Carlyle and Colin O'Donoghue together are the closest to capturing the magic of what this show use to be (yes, I'm even including the past few seasons which could be weak and messy, but still felt like Once instead of some kind of store-brand knock-off.)

On a slightly off-topic note, I have finally started Netflixing Reign and while I'm only a few episode in, I can safely confirm between that and her performance here that Adelaide Kane is the real deal.  So, I'll at least give the season it's due for making me a fan.

It's probably bad that I'm 

Spoiler

actually looking forward to Zelena returning next week, because she might be an awful person, but at least she's entertaining.

Edited December 9, 2017 by thuganomics85

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Surprisingly, didn't really miss Regina/Roni or Henry.

I didn't realize it until you mentioned it. haha.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

And The Guardian is clearly this flops version of The Savior.

Or the Sorcerer, the Author, or [insert pretentious title here].

Gothel spoke about the Dark One was if he were common knowledge in her realm. Was there another Dark One or another Rumple?

[cappoe]

Quote

I swear, is poor Tiana going to do anything other then reaction shots, being the "supportive friend", or deliver exposition?

She's the Ruby of the reboot so probably not. 

Seems like  a lot of people are pissed that they ruined Tangled on the show.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

She's the Ruby of the reboot so probably not. 

Even Red/Ruby did more in S1 outside of her centric. Tiana just kinda stands there, which is a shame because I don't actually hate her character.

The flashbacks didn't explain Drizella all that well. It's evident she cared more for Cecilia, but where did her determination to get Rapunzel's approval come from? I feel like we need another flashback focusing more on the kids. The Tremaine family melodrama has so little to do with the Cinderella fairy tale it's not even funny.

Edited December 9, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[cappoe]

3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Even Red/Ruby did more in S1 outside of her centric. Tiana just kinda stands there, which is a shame because I don't actually hate her character.

A part of me thinks based on early season stuff they intended on her being an LI of a sort to Rogesr but scrapped that completely when they saw the absolutely negative reaction all over the shots of them filming together.  I guess they not so shockingly realized that nobody wanted to see any version of Hook with anyone but Emma especially the episode after the Emma and the real Hook left.

Now her LI from the movie is being brought in which at the time of her centric Mekia said she didn't think he'd be brought on the show. Also how Sabine was supposed to go on a date in the episode, didn't happen. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by cappoe

[Senna]

I hope there's some as yet unsaid magical reason why Rapunzel's hair grew like 20+ feet in only six years. It kind of makes fairy tale sense when the tower's prisoner has been there her whole life (or has magic hair) ... But as someone who herself has had very long hair (to my hips), six years just ain't that long.

I didn't mind this episode on the whole, but I disliked the Tangled call-outs when their version of the character is so twisted.

[cappoe]

18 minutes ago, Senna said:

I hope there's some as yet unsaid magical reason why Rapunzel's hair grew like 20+ feet in only six years. It kind of makes fairy tale sense when the tower's prisoner has been there her whole life (or has magic hair) ... But as someone who herself has had very long hair (to my hips), six years just ain't that long.

I didn't mind this episode on the whole, but I disliked the Tangled call-outs when their version of the character is so twisted.

A lot of people didn't like how they did Tangled in the show.  Going from social media.

Edited December 9, 2017 by cappoe

[Shanna Marie]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

That was just a bunch of things we've seen a million times before. While I felt bad for Rapunzel's dilemma, it wasn't enough to extrapolate how she became a heartless bitch in the present.

It's the typical overreaction that they try to sell as sympathetic. Yeah, what she went through was terrible, but it doesn't explain or excuse what she ended up being. Ditto with Drizella. I know that they seemed to be showing us that Drizella was already distant from her mother, then when Anastasia died it made Rapunzel go over the top with hating Drizella, which made Drizella hate her, but even in the reunion scene, Rapunzel went straight to Anastasia and acted like she never even noticed her other daughter. That's on her. Drizella was a small child when they were separated, so this was a stranger coming to her, so it's on the adult to acknowledge the existence of the child, and it seemed like when that didn't happen, Drizella gave up on her mother. Not that this explains or excuses the lengths Drizella has gone to.

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Lucy last episode: "Oh. This is just the Kathryn love triangle thing. Everything will be fine."
Lucy this episode: "My mom kissed him?! I no longer believe in heroes any more!"

Yeah, not exactly a lot of belief to lose there. I was thinking in between episodes about how one of my favorite bits in season one was when Henry was trying to help Ruby find a job, and all of his suggestions were related to her being Red Riding Hood -- carrying things to people in baskets. That's what's been missing from Lucy. It's hard to see her loss of belief as being any kind of loss when all we ever saw of that was her telling Henry and Jacinda over and over again that they were her parents. We didn't see her deciding which people in the neighborhood were which fairy tale characters, didn't see her interacting with anyone as though she would interact with their character. While she didn't have the book of that world, she did have Henry's book, so she should at least have figured out Roni/Regina (and without having to see the Henry photo), Weaver/Rumple, and Rogers/Hook (that one should have been easy because of the missing hand, duh!). So it wasn't like anything changed when she stopped believing because we'd never seen any real evidence of her belief or any reason why she believed.

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I did like the Rapunzel/Tremaine back-story. He husband is not a very sympathetic man. I wouldn't have wanted him back after his cold treatment of her once she's returned.

It's interesting that she's not only Lady Tremaine, but also Rapunzel, as well as Irene Dunne in My Favorite Wife (or Doris Day in Move Over, Darling). But, yeah, the way the return was handled was so weird. They made her a servant? (so does that make her Cinderella, too?) And wouldn't the first wife being alive essentially annul the second marriage? I was trying to chart the family tree -- so Rapunzel was married and had kids, then he thought she was dead and remarried a woman with a kid, and then he thought wife #2 was dead so he remarried wife #1, and she became the wicked stepmother to his daughter.

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

So, both Gothel and Rumple are looking for the Guardian. It's either Anastasia or Alice. 

Rapunzel wouldn't take the deal that would save Anastasia because it would have made her the Guardian, so it seems like it's Alice, since she was forced to be innocent by being trapped in the tower, and Rumple ran right into her after doing the spell to take him to the Guardian. Except then wouldn't he know she was the Guardian? She was apparently working for him in both worlds.

35 minutes ago, Senna said:

I didn't mind this episode on the whole, but I disliked the Tangled call-outs when their version of the character is so twisted.

I like it when they take the core elements of common fairy tales and give them a twist -- like it being Rapunzel herself rather than her father who steals from the witch's garden, and her escaping from the tower on her own. But it's bugging me more and more when they take the elements that are someone else's twist on the tale and just stick them in, like the lanterns here. It's like they're trying to paste the emotions we got from that thing into their story. And I really hate them trying to make it look like the Tangled Rapunzel when she turns into a villain.

It's weird how they seem to be trying to make Rumple so pure and good while also making him shady. It's like they want him to be good but also can't resist also making him a gray character.

Poor Hook, in all incarnations, he gets a costume rather than clothes. Here he is, with the memories and worldview of a 21st century man, and yet he still wears the same thing every day. At least Storybrooke Hook got to change shirts every so often when he started wearing modern clothes. Rogers must have a closet full of black t-shirts and nothing else.

[cappoe]

This sounds like the real winners of the season are the Charming-Swan-Jones family cause not only are they away from this entire mess, but they got rid of every single person in their lives that made them miserable. That's an amazing thing.

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Rapunzel was married and had kids, then he thought she was dead and remarried a woman with a kid, and then he thought wife #2 was dead so he remarried wife #1, and she became the wicked stepmother to his daughter.

Marcus is a prize. He yo-yos back and forth between his two wives so easily, it's hard to tell he actually loved either of them. According to Murderella, he loved her mother, but it seemed more like he loved whoever was available. Rapunzel became the wicked stepmother once removed to Marcus' stepdaughter. And yes--his second marriage should have been annulled when Rapunzel was discovered to be alive. 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

8 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

And yes--his second marriage should have been annulled when Rapunzel was discovered to be alive. 

Either that, or he would have to divorce Rapunzel and then officially marry Cecelia.

[KAOS Agent]

Why don't Lucy and/or Henry just run a DNA test to prove/disprove paternity? If they want to keep things rooted in the reality of the modern world, they can't ignore such a simple solution. Lucy's given up her unexplained belief now anyway, so Henry and Regina should just stay wherever the hell they went. Life would be much better for him away from his awful wife. 

[cappoe]

10 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Why don't Lucy and/or Henry just run a DNA test to prove/disprove paternity? If they want to keep things rooted in the reality of the modern world, they can't ignore such a simple solution. Lucy's given up her unexplained belief now anyway, so Henry and Regina should just stay wherever the hell they went. Life would be much better for him away from his awful wife. 

Whom cannot act to save her life and has no chemistry with said true love.

[Camera One]

I was dreading them dragging Tangled's Rapunzel through the mud, and yep, they dragged her through the mud.  As usual, someone who tries to be heroic just gets punished. 

I agree with the above that there was still a huge disconnect between flashback Rapunzel and Lady Tremaine.  Are we supposed to believe that Heroic Rapunzel didn't feel any guilt over poisoning Cecila?  Even if that were the case, that doesn't mean she would tip to the other end of the scale and bwahwahwah her way to gleefully murder fairy godmothers.  Or are we supposed to have forgotten that?

As said above, ditto for the disconnect between flashback Drizella and Ivy.  Drizella apparently got along fine with Ella.  Are we going to find out it all changed when Drizella fell in love with the Stable Boy and swore Ella to secrecy but Ella told Trapunzel, who killed him since he wasn't good enough?   We even ended with a sad-face at the end for Ivy when she saw Anastasia and her mother, and she walked off.

It was idiotic for Rapunzel to work as a servant for the Tremaine's.  Surely, she could have found her own house and tried to start her life anew while sharing custody of the daughters?  

Mother Gothel's motivations were also all over the place.  Was there some prophesy that someone in Rapunzel's bloodline would be The Guardian?  So she just picked some random lady who went into her garden to steal REAL vegetables instead of magic?  Just because someone is putting their neck out for their own family doesn't make them a hero.  It's putting their neck out for strangers that makes someone even a bigger hero worthy of The Guardian.  How exactly could a coma patient be The Guardian?   

If they were so poor, why didn't they sell that fur coat?

And now, there's this huge universal search for someone with a nebulous undefined title of The Guardian.  The only problem is no one cares because we have no idea what that even means.  They could replace every reference to The Guardian with "Fuzzy Wuzzy Unknown Entity" and it wouldn't make a difference.

I also don't buy how Rapunzel managed to steal the potion off such a powerful magic user as Gothel.  It was a lame way to get Gothel trapped in the tower.

So where in this story was Drizella born with magic?  

I'll write about the current-day storyline a bit later.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Camera One

[MaiLuna]

Decent episode, but the different pronunciations of "Anastasia" bother me. Especially coming from the same character! Rapunzel says it one way in the flashback and when we cut to present-day Victoria she pronounces it another way. It's a small thing but for some reason it really bothers me. 

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, MaiLuna said:

Decent episode, but the different pronunciations of "Anastasia" bother me. Especially coming from the same character! Rapunzel says it one way in the flashback and when we cut to present-day Victoria she pronounces it another way. It's a small thing but for some reason it really bothers me. 

That's a really good observation. 

Speaking of pronunciation, I actually had to rewind several scenes to actually figure out what the characters said, or what they meant.  The first scene with Rapunzel and the kids/husband was very difficult to comprehend.  And some of the scenes with Gothel.  I'd imagine a "normal" viewer would just chuck the remote at the TV and give up.

[Rumsy4]

18 minutes ago, MaiLuna said:

Decent episode, but the different pronunciations of "Anastasia" bother me. Especially coming from the same character! Rapunzel says it one way in the flashback and when we cut to present-day Victoria she pronounces it another way. It's a small thing but for some reason it really bothers me. 

That annoyed me too. It was the same with Malcolm/Pan. Their accents and pronunciations didn't match. 

[Camera One]

"For family - I will ALWAYS find a way.  Unless I disown you."  - Rapunzel

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

How exactly could a coma patient be The Guardian?  

Gothel was going to wake Anastasia up when putting her in the tower.

 

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

It was idiotic for Rapunzel to work as a servant for the Tremaine's.  Surely, she could have found her own house and tried to start her life anew while sharing custody of the daughters? 

She wasn't. And she was in her house near their manor.

 

Why on earth did Rapunzel call her daughters' names for help instead of her husband's? According to the same episode, they were extremely young when she disappeared, much too young to help anyone escape anything.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Writing Wrongs]

I must've missed something in a past episode, because I was confused by The Dagger talk. When did Tiana see someone doing something with it?

I hate to say it, but Jacinda's accent really bugs me.

If Rapunzel could always cut her hair then why grow it that long? It can't have been comfortable.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Writing Wrongs said:

When did Tiana see someone doing something with it?

She didn’t. Rumple made that up to get her to handle the Dagger in case she showed signs of being the Guardian.

[Writing Wrongs]

When was this? Did I miss an episode?

[darkestboy]

I actually liked this one a lot.

Rapunzel/Tremaine being the same character I didn't actually see coming and the twist was decent enough as Victoria managed to wake up Anastacia while breaking Lucy's belief system.

I'm guessing we'll get a similar Henry/Lucy moment that we did with Emma/Henry in the mid season finale. I did feel bad for Lucy when Victoria showed her Jacinda/Nick kissing. 

Nick can still stay though, he's a decent enough character and we need the guy candy to be honest.

Nice to see Weaver/Rogers working together and nice that Weaver also didn't succumb to Gothel's deal just yet.

Tiana needs more to do and I did feel a little bad for Drizella at the end, even if she was going to do something truly horrible to her sister and mother, 8/10

[Rumsy4]

56 minutes ago, Writing Wrongs said:

When was this? Did I miss an episode?

Maybe you zoned out (I tend to do that these days, especially when Jacinda's on-screen). Tiana told Rogers that Weaver had shown her the Dagger, telling her that it was the weapon used to open the back door of the restaurant. The implication to the audience was that Rumple made it up as an excuse to get Tiana to handle his Dagger it. He's looking for candidates to take on the Guardianship of the Dark One. And he apparently thinks that there will be some sort of sign about their identity when they touch the Dagger (even in the Land w/o Magic).

Edited December 9, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Domenicholas]

In the first episode, Rapunzel/Lady Tremaine conspired with the prince to kill her husband, and later killed the prince and set up Cinderella to take the fall. Where the hell does that fit in this story?

I would say that Marcus and Cecelia were made unsympathetic in order to make the audience feel for Rapunzel more, but seeing how Cinderella turned, they're probably are really unpleasant people.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 minutes ago, Domenicholas said:

In the first episode, Rapunzel/Lady Tremaine conspired with the prince to kill her husband

That was revealed in the third episode.

 

8 minutes ago, Domenicholas said:

Where the hell does that fit in this story?

Some time after Anastasia died and before Ella met Henry.

Heh. "When Ella Met Henry".

[twoods]

Poor Nick, forcing to be saddled with the anti-chemistry character. Good thing that's he's a good enough actor to get past that and still be a good character. 

Thanks for ruining Ivy's character, writers. Making her grey would have made this storyline a little more compelling. Yeah, I almost fell sorry for her at the end but she was still going to do something horrible. My Henry/Ivy ship continues to sink. What a waste of decent chemistry.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Writing Wrongs said:

When was this? Did I miss an episode?

No.  It was another classic case of "tell, don't show."

[Rumsy4]

35 minutes ago, twoods said:

she was still going to do something horrible

What exactly was she planning to do after resurrecting her sister? Kill her? Curse her?

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Marcus is a prize. He yo-yos back and forth between his two wives so easily, it's hard to tell he actually loved either of them. According to Murderella, he loved her mother, but it seemed more like he loved whoever was available. Rapunzel became the wicked stepmother once removed to Marcus' stepdaughter. And yes--his second marriage should have been annulled when Rapunzel was discovered to be alive. 

That whole thing really is weird, that his long-lost (though not that long -- isn't seven years the traditional standard to have a missing person considered dead, even going back to folklore (since that's the amount of time people tended to stay in fairy realms in stories)? And she was only gone six years) wife and mother of his children shows up, and he pretty much just shrugs and says, "oops, moved on." And then he and new wife keep the kids. New wife also doesn't seem all that conflicted. And worse, she disappeared while trying to help him. I'm also curious where his wealth came from. She was stealing food for him without even knowing it was a witch's magical garden, so they were poor. But she manages to find him fairly easily, so was she going back to their house? Did Gothel's spell give him wealth and not just health, or was the money Cecilia's (which would explain why he didn't annul his second marriage)?

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

Even if that were the case, that doesn't mean she would tip to the other end of the scale and bwahwahwah her way to gleefully murder fairy godmothers.  Or are we supposed to have forgotten that?

As said above, ditto for the disconnect between flashback Drizella and Ivy.  Drizella apparently got along fine with Ella.  Are we going to find out it all changed when Drizella fell in love with the Stable Boy and swore Ella to secrecy but Ella told Trapunzel, who killed him since he wasn't good enough?   We even ended with a sad-face at the end for Ivy when she saw Anastasia and her mother, and she walked off.

This is their typical villain sympathy overreaction issue, also with the misplaced anger, just like Regina. Rapunzel had good reason to be mad at her husband, good reason to resent Cecilia. She had good reason to be sad about Anastasia's death. But it wasn't Drizella's fault that Anastasia tried to save Ella while Drizella lived, it wasn't Ella's fault that Anastasia tried to help her, and it wasn't Marcus's fault that when he made a desperate rescue attempt, he got the "wrong" girl. Raps crossed the line from sympathetic to villain when she had Marcus killed over this, when she turned Ella into a servant (did she? We never really saw that part of the story), when she tormented Drizella. That's where she's like Regina, torturing someone over something that happened when she was a child that wasn't her fault. And like I said before, she was already favoring Anastasia over Drizella when the children were young, not even bothering to acknowledge Drizella when she returned. And then it became Drizella's fault that she was a bad daughter? But then that's not worth casting a Dark Curse over or turning evil. That's where, say, joining the resistance would have been appropriate payback.

7 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

It was idiotic for Rapunzel to work as a servant for the Tremaine's.  Surely, she could have found her own house and tried to start her life anew while sharing custody of the daughters? 

She wasn't. And she was in her house near their manor.

She was dressed in a servant's uniform, serving drinks at the party. The way Cecilia talked to her, she wasn't playing hostess, but rather was doing her regular job even though she could have taken the day off.

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

The first scene with Rapunzel and the kids/husband was very difficult to comprehend. 

I may have to try that scene again with closed captioning because I had no idea what they were saying, and I'm usually good with understanding people with accents. There was a lot of background noise in the scene (the sound of the carriage, hoofbeats, and the storm), which didn't help.

1 hour ago, twoods said:

Poor Nick, forcing to be saddled with the anti-chemistry character. Good thing that's he's a good enough actor to get past that and still be a good character. 

And his kiss/near kiss with Jacinda was way hotter than anything we've seen between her and Henry. They supposedly did a chemistry test between the actors, but either they showed something in the test that didn't carry over to the screen, they misjudged entirely, or something happened between the chemistry test and the show that changed the chemistry because Henry and Jacinda/Ella are just flat together.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Maybe you zoned out (I tend to do that these days, especially when Jacinda's on-screen). Tiana told Rogers that Weaver had shown her the Dagger, telling her that it was the weapon used to open the back door of the restaurant. The implication to the audience was that Rumple made it up as an excuse to get Tiana to handle his Dagger it. He's looking for candidates to take on the Guardianship of the Dark One. And he apparently thinks that there will be some sort of sign about their identity when they touch the Dagger (even in the Land w/o Magic).

So Jacob - er, Rumple, is looking for Candidates... I mean a Guardian, to pick up the mantle.

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

So Jacob - er, Rumple, is looking for Candidates... I mean a Guardian, to pick up the mantle.

Groan. Of course even that is from LOST.

[Writing Wrongs]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

No.  It was another classic case of "tell, don't show."

OK. I have been forcing myself to watch, so I didn't think I missed a scene.

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Maybe you zoned out (I tend to do that these days, especially when Jacinda's on-screen). Tiana told Rogers that Weaver had shown her the Dagger, telling her that it was the weapon used to open the back door of the restaurant. The implication to the audience was that Rumple made it up as an excuse to get Tiana to handle his Dagger it. He's looking for candidates to take on the Guardianship of the Dark One. And he apparently thinks that there will be some sort of sign about their identity when they touch the Dagger (even in the Land w/o Magic).

I was so confused during that scene and this explanation clarified it.  Since when do people holding that dagger give indications whether they're the Guardian or not?  It's so dumb.  I suppose the Guardian is a good person, but you give it to the wrong person and they'd have complete control over you.  Great plan.

[legaleagle53]

Just now, Camera One said:

I was so confused during that scene and this explanation clarified it.  Since when do people holding that dagger give indications whether they're the Guardian or not?  It's so dumb.  I suppose the Guardian is a good person, but you give it to the wrong person and they'd have complete control over you.  Great plan.

Since A & E pulled the idea out of their asses, the way they do pretty much every other idea that they've had since about Season 3.

 

37 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Groan. Of course even that is from LOST.

Which proves that A & E never learned a damn thing from why that show lost viewers over time.  Only at least then they finally knew enough to quit while they were still marginally ahead.

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Only at least then they finally knew enough to quit while they were still marginally ahead.

That was Damon and Carlton's decision. If it had been left to A&E, we'd have had the complete backstory of Frogurt in Season 7 (apparently Eddy was quite obsessed with it to the point where they had him write a mobisode on Frogurt). Meanwhile, in present day, he would turn out to be the candidate chosen by the MiB to fight the candidate chosen by Jacob. Light vs Dark. It's all there. :-p