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TBBT vs Young Sheldon: Nitpicks, Anomalies, and Historical Facts In An Evolving Universe, presented by Sheldon L. Cooper

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11 hours ago, Dani said:

This whole storyline reminded me a lot of the Big Bang Theory episode where a grad student, Ramona Nowitzki, forces Sheldon to stay focused on his theory and then asks for shared credit. It also reminded me of all the times Sheldon promised his friends that they would be a footnote in whatever accomplishment he was working on at the time.

 

11 minutes ago, AriAu said:

And his response was "GET OUT"....so, no Sheldon does not become any better at sharing in the future!

And I’ll bet Ramona dropped it because she knew better than to call Sheldon’s department head and complain. 

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I had very little sympathy for Ramona and I doubt she would have had a leg to stand on if she'd complained to anyone.  Unlike young Sheldon and Dr Sturgis she didn't actually contribute anything to the paper. Also she didn't just want shared credit  she wanted to have her name as part of the theorum.  That was never going to fly!  Sure she made Sheldon buckle down but you don't get academic credit for that you get a dedication in the front of a book! 

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Sheldon may have contributed more to Sturgis’s paper than Ramona did to his, but co-author was still too much for Sheldon to demand. Sturgis spent years doing all the research and legwork, wrote the whole paper, rewrote the whole paper... And contributed plenty to the discussion he and Sheldon were having. It wasn’t all Sheldon in that breakdown. 

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1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

 

And I’ll bet Ramona dropped it because she knew better than to call Sheldon’s department head and complain. 

True. Ramona’s stomping out of the apartment and getting pissed at Penny was the much more mature and controlled version of Sheldon’s behavior. Based on her later appearance apparently Ramona also appeared to learn from that experience. While it appears Sheldon just became more unyielding with time. 
 

One of the things I really like about this show is the way they show how Young Sheldon becomes Adult Sheldon without really making excuses. If Sheldon’s interaction with Dr Sturgis had gone differently or if Connie, George or Mary and intervened Adult Sheldon have become a better person faster. That’s not to say that I blame any of the adults but Sheldon didn’t have the support to help him overcome his worst tendencies as a child. 

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This episode reminded me more of when the team gets back from the Arctic and Sheldon races to triumphantly to post their results (and to gloat), not realizing that the other three had messed with the data to mollify him and get out on time.  Young Sheldon finds a problem in Dr. Sturgis' paper - had Older Sheldon had someone else look at the Arctic data, they would have realized that there were problems.  Instead he ended up looking like a fool.

Peer Review, it works!

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Tonight's episode really drove home for me how different it might have been for Sheldon if George had lived.

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One of the college letters mentioned was from Germany!  I wonder if its from Heidelberg, where Sheldon went at 15 to be a visiting professor?

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RE: YS, S03, Ep. 21:

If that's truly the way Sheldon was able to begin attending college in East Texas, you'd think that adult Sheldon would have a much more favorable retrospective opinion of his father than anything we were ever shown on TBBT. George was pretty much the main reason he was able to go! Mary might very well have kept him home until he was of legal age to make his own choice!

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Yeah, there is a significant difference in how the adult Sheldon on BBT describes his father versus what we see on Young Sheldon. And I don't like it.

The YS version of George is a good person. A dad who's out of his depth for sure and who has flaws and makes mistakes. And who loves his children fiercely. 

That the adult Sheldon fails to recognize that makes my heart ache. George would be devastated to know how his son will look back on him.

I'm actually angry at the writers for this. I know I've said it before. George as a character was *not* a blank slate. There were 10 seasons of references on BBT that should have been taken into account. I hate that they weren't. 

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1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

I'm actually angry at the writers for this. I know I've said it before. George as a character was *not* a blank slate. There were 10 seasons of references on BBT that should have been taken into account. I hate that they weren't. 

And yet I don't think I would want to watch Young Sheldon if George was an drunken abusive jerk. I know people who watch YS and didn't watch TBBT; the writers are writing for the current viewers.

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When the latest episode started with Mary & George fighting, I said to Mr. Callie that this must be how they're going to move towards TBBT historical version of facts. 

I have such mixed feelings over it all.  I *like* this George and am sad for how things are supposed to turn out, so I'm almost okay with a completely revised version of events.  I don't know how but I'm kind of hoping the writers can clean things up, maybe through adult Sheldon's voice overs?

 

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I may be in the minority here but I do not find TBBT version of George to be out of line with the YS version. Or at least no more out of line then the other characters. Sheldon on Big Bang focuses on the negative aspects of everyone but MeeMaw and he does it from he own skewed perspective. The only real difference is that the others were able to appear on TBBT to show how wrong Sheldon was. 

18 hours ago, anna0852 said:

That the adult Sheldon fails to recognize that makes my heart ache. George would be devastated to know how his son will look back on him.

It helps me to remember that Young Sheldon is supposed to be told from the perspective of an even older Sheldon who is looking back on his childhood with fresh eyes after having kids of his own. 

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On 5/1/2020 at 6:36 AM, Frost said:

One of the college letters mentioned was from Germany!  I wonder if its from Heidelberg, where Sheldon went at 15 to be a visiting professor?

Probably. I noticed the three letters were from each from an area that will play a big part in Sheldon’s life. CalTech and Germany are obvious but the third was in New Jersey, where Leonard grew up and went to college and where Sheldon proposes to Amy. 

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So, are they going to stick to tbbt timeline with regards to George's death? Doesn't  he die when Sheldon's  12?  Next season. Seems like that might ruin the show.

Steve

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On 7/6/2020 at 1:28 PM, Nickto21 said:

So, are they going to stick to tbbt timeline with regards to George's death? Doesn't  he die when Sheldon's  12?  Next season. Seems like that might ruin the show.

Steve

He dies when Sheldon is 14. That’s also when Sheldon is supposed to graduate college and start graduate school. The show has been moving slower than real time so they will probably stretch out those three years as much as possible. 

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59 minutes ago, Dani said:

He dies when Sheldon is 14. That’s also when Sheldon is supposed to graduate college and start graduate school. The show has been moving slower than real time so they will probably stretch out those three years as much as possible. 

That’s going to be interesting with Iain and Raegan’s growth spurts!! I know they didn’t finish filming the last episode from last season. I wonder if they will have to reshoot the whole thing because of height differences?

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They haven’t slowed anything down. Each season has been one year. They can’t slow it down, they have two adolescents rapidly whooshing through puberty. 

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1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

They haven’t slowed anything down. Each season has been one year. They can’t slow it down, they have two adolescents rapidly whooshing through puberty. 

They’ve defined slowed it down. The pilot was set the in fall of 1989 when the twins were 9. They were born in February 1980. In season 3 episode 8 Sheldon says that he is 10 (most likely late 1990 or early 1991) and that he starts college at 11. So the season 3 finale was supposed to be the summer of 1991. 

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In the premiere of YS this season they reference that Sheldon and Amy have a son they name Leonard.  I can totally see Sheldon trying to convince Leonard that he's naming his son after Leonard Nimoy not Leonard Hofstedder!   I loved this shout out to BBT but it made me miss the original show even more.  I'd love to have seen Sheldon dealing with the pandemic - and I speak as someone who has been going out of my way to avoid shows that actually are dealing with the pandemic!

 

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The last few episodes of YS shows Missy giving Sheldon advice - which he actually listens to!  If he & Missy were like that more than we're shown, I can see why Sheldon opened up to Penny on TBBT.  She's truly like a sister to him.  Penny was always able to tell Sheldon the brutal truth on certain things, more so than some of the other characters on TBBT.   She was able to help him with more personal problems too.  I see some of Penny's personality in Missy.  They are both mighty in their own way!

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On 11/22/2020 at 2:20 PM, ChitChat said:

The last few episodes of YS shows Missy giving Sheldon advice - which he actually listens to!  If he & Missy were like that more than we're shown, I can see why Sheldon opened up to Penny on TBBT.  She's truly like a sister to him.  Penny was always able to tell Sheldon the brutal truth on certain things, more so than some of the other characters on TBBT.   She was able to help him with more personal problems too.  I see some of Penny's personality in Missy.  They are both mighty in their own way!

Penny was also never afraid of Sheldon like the others were.   Missy has that as well.  She will go straight at him if she has to.  In retrospect  that is the only reason Sheldon was able to be friends with someone like Penny.  

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George on Young Sheldon does not seemingly match George of Sheldon’s memories and I’m bummed about what’s to come for George.  

He’s not perfect but he has a good heart and that didn’t ever really come through in the memories version in TBBT. 

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47 minutes ago, Callietwo said:

George on Young Sheldon does not seemingly match George of Sheldon’s memories and I’m bummed about what’s to come for George.  

He’s not perfect but he has a good heart and that didn’t ever really come through in the memories version in TBBT. 

That’s really true for all the characters which gives them a lot of wiggle room in dealing with George. 

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59 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Also, Sheldon has been proven to be an unreliable narrator. He doesn’t always perceive things the way they really are. 

yes, but dead is dead. He may not have been the alcoholic cheating bum that Sheldon described but its going to be difficult to ret-con a dead father -- Its not like it was mentioned once in passing. Sheldon's father being dead was a running part of his and Mary's character. It was also one of the big elements contributing to why Georgie didn't want to attend Sheldon's wedding. 

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5 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

yes, but dead is dead. He may not have been the alcoholic cheating bum that Sheldon described but its going to be difficult to ret-con a dead father -- Its not like it was mentioned once in passing. Sheldon's father being dead was a running part of his and Mary's character. It was also one of the big elements contributing to why Georgie didn't want to attend Sheldon's wedding. 

I think the show will end before we get to that part. Sheldon also leaves home for grad school before George’s dies. It hard to imagine the show continuing beyond that point. 

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23 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

yes, but dead is dead. He may not have been the alcoholic cheating bum that Sheldon described but its going to be difficult to ret-con a dead father -- Its not like it was mentioned once in passing. Sheldon's father being dead was a running part of his and Mary's character. It was also one of the big elements contributing to why Georgie didn't want to attend Sheldon's wedding. 

Well, yeah, thats what I meant by unreliable narrator: all of Sheldon's unflattering George stories. I don’t think they’ll undo him dying.

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1 hour ago, Dani said:

That’s really true for all the characters which gives them a lot of wiggle room in dealing with George. 

 

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Also, Sheldon has been proven to be an unreliable narrator. He doesn’t always perceive things the way they really are. 

And it’s not even an issue of translation from TBBT to YS: Sheldon was shown to be a pretty unreliable narrator/describer of other people even on TBBT. The way he often described his mother, for instance, didn’t do justice to the Mary we saw on screen. Ditto for how he often talked about Penny, Leonard, Howard, etc., versus who and how they really were.
 

Since Sheldon often reduces people to extreme caricatures when he describes them, I can totally buy that George was far more complex and not as extreme as adult Sheldon characterized him—especially since all of Sheldon’s memories are filtered through a child’s perception and understanding of the world, and most especially since Sheldon has never been the greatest at understanding human behavior and seeing shades of gray.

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On 12/4/2020 at 5:07 PM, stealinghome said:

Since Sheldon often reduces people to extreme caricatures when he describes them, I can totally buy that George was far more complex and not as extreme as adult Sheldon characterized him—especially since all of Sheldon’s memories are filtered through a child’s perception and understanding of the world, and most especially since Sheldon has never been the greatest at understanding human behavior and seeing shades of gray.

I can see him thinking a person who drinks a beer every day is an alcoholic and take it to the extreme. 

While watching last night's episode I kept trying to remember if Georgie was a teen dad. 

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Did adult Sheldon say that Georgie had been married two or three times?  Did he mention whether Georgie had any children?

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9 minutes ago, Driad said:

Did adult Sheldon say that Georgie had been married two or three times?  Did he mention whether Georgie had any children?

I'm sure I remember Sheldon (or possibly Mary) talking about Georgie having been married and divorced a few times.  I don't recall any mention of children though.  For some reason I had the impression that Missy's first baby was also the first grandchild in the family.

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On 12/18/2020 at 12:03 PM, Driad said:

Did he mention whether Georgie had any children?

Just saw the Season 4 BBT episode "The Robotic Manipulation".  Unless they retconned it later they clearly state in this episode that Mary Cooper does not have any grandchildren to this point.

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If only someone had told Leonard, Amy et al how to both keep Sheldon corralled yet get him moving as needed. 

They should have parked a parkeet in Penny's apartment to use.

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Leonard et al. know Sheldon is afraid of birds, at least after the episode with the bluejay in the window.  

Trying to imagine BBT if Sheldon were a philosopher instead of a physicist.

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Regarding Sheldon’s father’s rather dark dissatisfaction with life in S04.E08: “An Existential Crisis and a Bear That Makes Bubbles”——
I would really prefer a parallel universe for Young Sheldon rather than a depression-themed arc that ends badly for the family just to maintain consistency with TBBT.

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7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I would really prefer a parallel universe for Young Sheldon rather than a depression-themed arc that ends badly for the family just to maintain consistency with TBBT.

I really wish they hadn't made George so likeable.  It seemed at first that they were dropping hints that he had issues - he drank too much, wanted to spend money the kids earned on big boy toys for himself, that kind of thing, but then they stopped doing that and he increasingly came across as a really good guy and they threw Mary under the bus and made her the typical Lorre wife where George was more sinned against than sinning.  Now they are going the "poor sad unhappy George" route.  So if they stick with BBT his unhappiness with his lot in life will excuse adultery and alcoholism?  I don't know if I'd stick around for that.

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7 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I would really prefer a parallel universe for Young Sheldon rather than a depression-themed arc that ends badly for the family just to maintain consistency with TBBT.

Whereas I'm the complete opposite. If this doesn't like up with TBBT then what was even the point other than a built-in audience to watching the show? And does that mean the hints we get at post-TBBT things like the name of Sheldon's kids are part of TBBT story or something else? If this isn't one connected story, I'll feel like I wasted my time. I'm hear because I loved the Sheldon I watched for years. If this is a different but similar Sheldon, that's not who I've spent my time connecting with.

And I get the other side but I'm not interested and if the show is going that way, I'd rather know and get out now.

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46 minutes ago, vibeology said:

And I get the other side but I'm not interested and if the show is going that way, I'd rather know and get out now.

Same.  For me knowing YS came on the air before BBT ended suggests they had time to walk back some of the things they said about Sheldon's childhood and family life and they really didn't do that aside from fleshing out what happened in the Cooper household in the immediate aftermath of George's death.  Someone upthread said they'd be angry if they change too much about BBT Sheldon because his childhood/adolescent made him the adult he became and I agree with that. 

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Same here. George dies, he and Mary get divorced. I don’t want that walked back. I feel they have some wiggle room on Sheldon’s perceptions of the events as he’s told on the mother show but those two specific things are pretty big plot points that shouldn’t be undone.

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2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Same here. George dies, he and Mary get divorced. I don’t want that walked back. I feel they have some wiggle room on Sheldon’s perceptions of the events as he’s told on the mother show but those two specific things are pretty big plot points that shouldn’t be undone.

I hope there is at least some variation "on Sheldon’s perceptions of the events as he’s told on the mother show" if for no other reason than that is how it works IRL. Even my sister, who was identified as having an eidetic memory, does not always recall things as they were because she either wasn't present at key moments or because she was shielded from facts by our parents or because her child's mind made incorrect assumptions that she remembered as facts.

If, for example, George dies of suicide (😱😨😭which I hope does not happen but which this last episode kind of hinted at😭😨😱) I can easily imagine them showing young Sheldon assuming he died of drinking or obesity. They could have Jim Parson's do a voiceover admitting he didn't know the reason for sure. Then the episode would fade out with a PSA for suicide hotlines. 

But I would much rather have Sheldon's father go join a hippy commune (with young Sheldon overhearing a talk between MeeMaw and his mom about his dad "being dead" to her). 
Then we could have a Jim Parson voiceover telling us that eventually his dad met his grandchildren and taught them Transcendental Meditation.

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8 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

But I would much rather have Sheldon's father go join a hippy commune (with young Sheldon overhearing a talk between MeeMaw and his mom about his dad "being dead" to her). 

I'd rather George die and that's why he leaves the family not choose to leave the family.

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4 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I'd rather George die and that's why he leaves the family not choose to leave the family.

Yeah, now that I think about it, at least there's no abandonment issues in that instance. 
But either exit for Sheldon's dad seems too grim at this point for the Young Sheldon universe.

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From what we’ve gotten from the mother show, George and Mary divorced first. Then he died.

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Given that we know when George dies (when Sheldon is 14) they're going to have to start going in that direction. Especially if there's infidelity and divorce first. 

 And I continue to be ticked off at the writers for setting George up to be a really good guy when they already knew how this needed to turn out. So much of the Cooper family's history was already laid out and the writers seem to refuse to accept that they're not working from a blank slate.

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1 minute ago, anna0852 said:

Given that we know when George dies (when Sheldon is 14) they're going to have to start going in that direction. Especially if there's infidelity and divorce first. 

The infidelity is where I think they have the wiggle room. I don’t think Mary ever mentioned it, just Sheldon. And I think he’s enough of an unreliable narrator that it can be he misconstrued something.

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1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

Given that we know when George dies (when Sheldon is 14) they're going to have to start going in that direction. Especially if there's infidelity and divorce first. 

I know BBT referenced infidelity almost every time Sheldon talked about his father but I don't remember them ever saying that his parents were divorced.  Earlier episodes definitely gave you the impression George and Mary were still together when he died but even later on it seemed more like they had either separated or were still living together but not happily.   I could see George filing for divorce but somehow I can't see Mary going along with it

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4 hours ago, displayname said:

I thought Sheldon was supposed to be at a German university, or was that only for summer research?

He was a visiting professor, he wasn’t there for long.

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When I saw Wendy Malick in tonight's episode, she reminded me of Jessica Walter, who played the wealthy donor on TBBT (The Benefactor Factor).  I thought it was the same actress at first.  That would've been funny to have had her as the university President.  

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