S15.E35: Bill McKibben, Chelsea Handler, Carl Bernstein, Max Brooks, and Rebecca Traister

[saoirse]

Quote

Environmentalist Bill McKibben is the top-of-show interview guest. Comedian Chelsea Handler is the mid-show interview guest. The roundtable guests are journalist Carl Bernstein, author Max Brooks and author Rebecca Traister.

Season finale!

[Megan]

Every time Bill Maher goes off on the sexual harassers and such I feel on edge. He's such a jerk and it has to be only a matter of time before someone comes forward.

[Robert Lynch]

Oh, Max! You were so rude. Your only plan was to overtalk into high obnoxious volumes. Stop with the anachronistic bs, man. Free love in the 80s?!!!? Please...that was more of the 60s and 70s. Love Carl's look when Mr. Whiner talked. Classic.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Robert Lynch

[LiveenLetLive]

1 hour ago, Megan said:

Every time Bill Maher goes off on the sexual harassers and such I feel on edge. He's such a jerk and it has to be only a matter of time before someone comes forward.

same here yet he always talks about the issue with confidence, so hopefully there is nothing. 

[InsertWordHere]

I really wanted to hear what Carl Bernstein was going to say about the 24 hour news cycle and people screaming over each other but instead we got to hear people screaming all over each other about millennials. Oh well. 

[Victor the Crab]

1 hour ago, LiveenLetLive said:

same here yet he always talks about the issue with confidence, so hopefully there is nothing. 

With his attitude towards women, I doubt it. It's amazing nobody has stepped forward to talk about HIS behavior.

[meowmommy]

Someone please explain to me what Chelsea Handler adds to any conversation, and why Bill loves her so much, because I sure as shit don't get it.  Unfunny, banal, self-important.

For Max:  back in the 'good old days,' it wasn't ok to masturbate in front of co-workers; it's just that if the co-worker objected, nobody gave a shit, and in fact, the co-worker could and did often face a backlash.

16 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

I really wanted to hear what Carl Bernstein was going to say about the 24 hour news cycle and people screaming over each other but instead we got to hear people screaming all over each other about millennials.

I would have been happy if everyone but Carl Bernstein had gone away.

Edited November 18, 2017 by meowmommy
Just adding that I realized this is my PTV post #420; seems appropriate for this forum!

[wknt3]

12 hours ago, Megan said:

Every time Bill Maher goes off on the sexual harassers and such I feel on edge. He's such a jerk and it has to be only a matter of time before someone comes forward.

He would have to hire a woman before he could abuse his power so he's probably safe. Seriously though I'm perfectly willing to believe, based on his complete lack of understanding of the topic and his comments recently, when the Trump tape came out, and back in the day that he is what he has always seemed like - a clueless sexist who has banged plenty of groupies and shallow starfuckers, ignored some ugly stuff going on in front of his face, and said plenty of awful shit, but has never crossed the line in this way. It totally fits with the way he keeps saying that he's been in show business and never seen anything like this and doesn't understand why these people don't just use their money and fame to find willing partners. And given all available evidence Bill is such a misogynistic twatwaffle that he is completely unattracted to talented and intelligent women so he would never made a crude advance on a woman in the industry or try to get someone to sleep with him to be on the show.
 

8 hours ago, meowmommy said:

Someone please explain to me what Chelsea Handler adds to any conversation, and why Bill loves her so much, because I sure as shit don't get it.  Unfunny, banal, self-important.

Chelsa Handler doesn't add anything substantive of course. Bill loves her because she can be counted on to present shallow talking points well, banter back and forth, and have a couple good punchlines. Bill loves a guest who will never seriously challenge him and require him to work.
 

Edited November 18, 2017 by wknt3

[iMonrey]

I thought this was a really good show. The interview with McKibben was wonderful. He's on the right side of not wasting time on the 30% who don't believe in climate science - "anyone who's been marinating in Rush Limbaugh for the past 20 years is impervious to reason." I loved his idea of saying to the crazy Fox News watching uncle "You may not believe in global warming, but global warming believes in you."

I adore Max Brooks and wish we could have heard more from him, but he seemed to be deferring to Carl Bernstein a lot. Luckily Bernstein hit all the good points: about Wikileaks being right wing, and our country being in a cold civil war.

Normally I find Chelsea Hander off-putting but for once the mid-show guest added to the conversation rather than bring it to a screeching halt to plug a book or whatever.

Overtime was good too.

[HoboClayton]

I have always gone back and forth on Chelsea. I liked her show when it came out, watched it during it's whole run. I can appreciate her turnaround to full time SJW, and I don't mean that in a bad way. She just seems really disingenuous and a try hard. Which she has always been, but.. I don't know how to really explain it. I just have a really hard time taking her seriously. 

[ganesh]

14 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

Free love in the 80s?!!!? Please...that was more of the 60s and 70s.

I think he was talking about the advent of aids in the 80s, so the concept of just going out and having sex with whomever had to be re examined. 

I really like Handler. Her show is actually quite good. I think her comedy 'schitck' is to play at being a jerk to make people uncomfortable. She did a series of 4 specials and the one she did on racism was probably the best piece on the issue I've seen in a long time. 

I don't really have a problem with her deciding to be more of an activist to get more women elected. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

He's on the right side of not wasting time on the 30% who don't believe in climate science - "anyone who's been marinating in Rush Limbaugh for the past 20 years is impervious to reason."

Sort of like how we always say not to waste time on the butthurt white dudes. Both groups are entrenched and it's a waste of resources to waste time on them. What I also think is important is getting that 70% out and voting for people who will do something about climate change. As Chelsea pointed out, there was a big result in VA because turnout was so high *especially* with the 28 and under vote. 

I know I'm a broken record, but if you're not talking about nuclear power as *part* of the solution, then you're just not serious about climate change. There were tons of nuclear advocates at COP23 (that's the thing in Bonn that they referenced). 

[UYI]

11 hours ago, meowmommy said:

Someone please explain to me what Chelsea Handler adds to any conversation, and why Bill loves her so much, because I sure as shit don't get it.  Unfunny, banal, self-important.

For Max:  back in the 'good old days,' it wasn't ok to masturbate in front of co-workers; it's just that if the co-worker objected, nobody gave a shit, and in fact, the co-worker could and did often face a backlash.

I would have been happy if everyone but Carl Bernstein had gone away.

Aw, at least keep Rebecca Traister! I love her. 

[ganesh]

I'm surprised no one on the show didn't know this, but the president can't just wake up at 4 am and tell everyone he's going to nuke North Korea. There was a senate hearing on this issue this week. Generals and high level military officials have the legal protection of refusing an illegal order. 

Yes, they still teach civics in school. I hate the stupid inane canard about the senate. The guy on the left saying "they had two senators so VA wouldn't run roughshod over the rest of the states," is the same thing with CA dominating the congress. You have proportional representation in the house, you have the minority protection in the senate. That's how it works. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. 

If a smaller state gains population, then they get more representatives in the house. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by ganesh

[GHScorpiosRule]

Agree this was a very solid show. 

Can we have Carl Bernstein on all the time, please? This is an example of a good reporter who kept his integrity and journalistic ethics. Woodward, I'm looking at you. 

I love, love, love Max Brooks, and he was talking about the AIDS crisis when he said "Free love in the 80s."

I can take Handler in small doses, but please tell me she was trolling/yanking on Max's chain/being sarcastic when she told him she was dating Mel Gibson.

No, Bill. I don't want any incarnation, shape or form of Drumph. Seriously, this was what you thought would be a good season ender for New Rules?

And as for Overtime, did McKibben and Bill forget that Sanders isn't from Vermont, but New York? Just stop already how he's the best and most whatever they were going for. It seemed like Rebecca had something to say at the end when Max responded to Bill's question about "who" will be a good candidate(s) in 2018 and 2020. I would have liked to have heard what she had to say.

[Robert Lynch]

I didn't know it was about the AIDS epidemic. My apologies on that assumption.

[UYI]

11 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

I can take Handler in small doses, but please tell me she was trolling/yanking on Max's chain/being sarcastic when she told him she was dating Mel Gibson.

 

I'm almost positive she was. I agree that it was weird, though. 

[attica]

FIrst of all, I wish we could evolve to a point where a pundit doesn't feel obligated to Have a Take on a subject he maybe should stay zipped about. I'm looking at you, Carl; I've ridden an elevator with you. You can bow right out of the sexual harassment discush, there, fella. [eyeroll]

I liked that Rebecca and Chelsea had differing opinions about subjects, and that they each had time to converse about them (rather than spouting a list of talking points), and did so to each other. I think maybe it's rare in general, but I feel like it's super rare on this show.

I feel like Chelsea should have been more on point with the actual voting habits than she was. White women went for Gillespie in VA, and for Guadagno in NJ. Republicans both, but they voted with the woman candidate in NJ. So Chelsea's point that women don't want to vote for women, at least in the case of white women, isn't accurate here. I learned something super interesting about down-ballot races this cycle. As we know, most of the flipped VA delegates races were taken by first time women candidates. A friend of mine used to be active in CA dem politics some years ago, and he told me that data consistently bore out that voters would always choose the woman's name in races where there was no widespread name recognition, i.e. downballot. The problem was always recruiting women to run. (Also something Chelsea should have known immediately, seeing as how this is something Emily's List combats, um, daily.) And then it follows that if women get elected downballot, they'll have an easier road climbing the ladder. Not to mention just being in the Room Where it Happens, so maybe we could stop litigating birth-fucking-control here in 2017.  Anyway.

Rebecca's point about not deciding Just This Minute what the appropriate punishment for  crappy behavior should be is one I've been clinging to. Maybe that's just me being in denial, but I feel like I want some time to process these Frankenesque offenses before deciding.  

And no, I'm in full agreement that re-litigating Bill Clinton is just a distraction from every thing we need to keep our eyes on. (Just finished reading Hillary's book, and their relationship now as she portrays it is kind of sweet.) 

[ganesh]

40 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I can take Handler in small doses, but please tell me she was trolling/yanking on Max's chain/being sarcastic when she told him she was dating Mel Gibson.

She was. That's her deal. She's got a stone cold poker face. 

32 minutes ago, attica said:

And no, I'm in full agreement that re-litigating Bill Clinton is just a distraction from every thing we need to keep our eyes on.

I mean, unless there's new evidence that comes to light, this is a classic example of whataboutism to me. There's enough going on now,

33 minutes ago, attica said:

Rebecca's point about not deciding Just This Minute what the appropriate punishment for  crappy behavior should be is one I've been clinging to. Maybe that's just me being in denial, but I feel like I want some time to process these Frankenesque offenses before deciding.  

I think Bernstein's discussion on context is most apt. Franken apologized, apologized again, and then sent the woman a hand written letter of apology. She accepted it and wants to move on. He didn't make excuses for himself or blamed the woman. Then called for an ethics investigation into himself. I don't know what else the guy should do. 

[BabyVegas]

Wow, the mood whiplash in this episode was wild. A really solid, thoughtful, worthwhile discussion on sexual harassment followed by Bill's typical misogynistic (women are nagging shrews) and transphobic (misgendering Caitlyn Jenner) bullshit.

On balance I think this was a good episode. I could have listened to an entire hour of Rebecca Traister and Carl Bernstein discussing issues within our media. I completely agree with Bernstein about being in the middle of a cold civil war and the issues surrounding context. I even agreed with Bill when he brought up the point that there is this loss of nuance when it comes to people doing bad things. I was, as per usual, super annoyed that he broke up a good discussion for his useless mid-show bit.

10 hours ago, wknt3 said:

He would have to hire a woman before he could abuse his power so he's probably safe. Seriously though I'm perfectly willing to believe, based on his complete lack of understanding of the topic and his comments recently, when the Trump tape came out, and back in the day that he is what he has always seemed like - a clueless sexist who has banged plenty of groupies and shallow starfuckers, ignored some ugly stuff going on in front of his face, and said plenty of awful shit, but has never crossed the line in this way. It totally fits with the way he keeps saying that he's been in show business and never seen anything like this and doesn't understand why these people don't just use their money and fame to find willing partners. And given all available evidence Bill is such a misogynistic twatwaffle that he is completely unattracted to talented and intelligent women so he would never made a crude advance on a woman in the industry or try to get someone to sleep with him to be on the show.

This, on so many levels. I genuinely and honestly think that Bill's perception of equality is that women should be free to fuck and support themselves, because that means he gets to fuck more women and doesn't have to get married. That's why, even though I liked this episode, I would have enjoyed it even more without Bill.

[UYI]

5 hours ago, ganesh said:

I think Bernstein's discussion on context is most apt. Franken apologized, apologized again, and then sent the woman a hand written letter of apology. She accepted it and wants to move on. He didn't make excuses for himself or blamed the woman. Then called for an ethics investigation into himself. I don't know what else the guy should do. 

The one thing that bothered me is that, from what I can tell, Bill seemed to only address the photo, and not the actual kiss Leeann Tweeden said took place between her and Al, one she says she didn't want. Did that come up and I just missed it? 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

The one thing that bothered me is that, from what I can tell, Bill seemed to only address the photo, and not the actual kiss Leeann Tweeden said took place between her and Al, one she says she didn't want. Did that come up and I just missed it? 

Iirc, he did reference him writing a sketch to force her to kiss him. I think he said something about how if he was going to write that in a skit the woman's line better be "Get off me, creep!" or something like that.

[ganesh]

I thought Bill referenced that in the monologue. 

[amsel]

18 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Agree this was a very solid show. 

Can we have Carl Bernstein on all the time, please? This is an example of a good reporter who kept his integrity and journalistic ethics. Woodward, I'm looking at you. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out in a year or two that Woodward has been interviewing Trump for many hours all this time and wrote a book called "Trump's America" or something like that.

It's interesting how the "sidekick" is engaging in journalism while the main star of Watergate has become a worthless establishment ass kisser. 

[UYI]

8 hours ago, ganesh said:

I thought Bill referenced that in the monologue. 

You're right, I think he did, but during Overtime it seemed like he and the others were acting like it was "just" the photo that was the problem. 

[ganesh]

I think the photo is the more damaging evidence because it's tangible and we all can see it. 

[msrachelj]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

You're right, I think he did, but during Overtime it seemed like he and the others were acting like it was "just" the photo that was the problem. 

is this woman a comedian, why was she on the tour with franked et al? to me the photo is just juvenile male behavior and while i'm very disappointed in franken for that ,i don't think it was something she should be making such a big deal over. 

 as for the kiss, he disputes it went down that way but apologized anyway. i saw her on talk shows recently and she kept saying how she hated to talk about this etc but she went on and on for a very long time. she has effectively taken out a democratic politician that we desperately need. if she just wanted an apology as she stated why did she have to drag his name through the mud publicly and have him lumped in with child molesters and rapists? she could have gone to him in private. as a woman i could not begin to count how many times a boy or a man has harassed me starting from elementary school. unfortunately it is a burden most women bear. i don't know how to change it. it  starts with parenting  but it is complicated. boys learn from their friends, from television , now the internet. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

is this woman a comedian, why was she on the tour with franked et al? to me the photo is just juvenile male behavior and while i'm very disappointed in franken for that ,i don't think it was something she should be making such a big deal over. 

That's why Traister's comment was so great, about how we should talk about why every male knows this joke and how they know why they should make it and how it's encouraged. But that's thrown out in favor of whether or not Franken's been taken off the board by this even though Republicans will both benefit and continue to celebrate their actual predators. Basically they've again found yet another way to make sexual harassment work for them.

[ganesh]

I think the woman used to be a fitness model, but now she's a reporter. It's not just comedians that go on USO tours.

[saoirse]

A reminder, this is a spot to talk about the actual episode - posts that go off topic will be removed, and repeated offenses may result in a warning. Thanks.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I will admit the one part where I laughed during New Rules was when Bill said let’s go back to the beginning regarding Drumph and that picture of the Orangutan popped up. I’ve said it before, but that will never NOT be funny to me.???????????

[DEL901]

I hate it when Bill says, "You can't be more offended than the person who was the target."  Then he used the Japanese baseball pitcher as an example.  Just because he said that it didn't bother him, 1) didn't make it okay and 2) does Bill really think it didn't bother him?  He doesn't want to make waves because if he does, he'll be the one getting the blow back.   

It's always been like that.  Someone makes an offensive joke (racist, sexist, etc.) and people had to pretend to laugh or brush it off or they would be the targets, "no sense of humour", "can't take a joke" etc.  And they could be labelled trouble makers, which could hurt their career advancement.  

[Surrealist]

On 11/19/2017 at 5:20 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I will admit the one part where I laughed during New Rules was when Bill said let’s go back to the beginning regarding Drumph and that picture of the Orangutan popped up. I’ve said it before, but that will never NOT be funny to me.???????????

Same. That photo is hilarious. 

Also, I will never tire of the Rick Perry "Dancing with the Stars" clip. 

[charmed1]

On 11/20/2017 at 4:06 PM, DEL901 said:

I hate it when Bill says, "You can't be more offended than the person who was the target."  Then he used the Japanese baseball pitcher as an example.  Just because he said that it didn't bother him, 1) didn't make it okay and 2) does Bill really think it didn't bother him?  He doesn't want to make waves because if he does, he'll be the one getting the blow back.   

It's always been like that.  Someone makes an offensive joke (racist, sexist, etc.) and people had to pretend to laugh or brush it off or they would be the targets, "no sense of humour", "can't take a joke" etc.  And they could be labelled trouble makers, which could hurt their career advancement.  

It's the stupidest argument ever. That's like someone burning a cross on my next door neighbor's lawn, but because my neighbor is not upset, I'm not supposed to be? I think Bill is still smarting after that smack on the nose he got from O'Shea Jackson, and this is his passive aggressive way of whining about it.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, charmed1 said:

It's the stupidest argument ever. That's like someone burning a cross on my next door neighbor's lawn, but because my neighbor is not upset, I'm not supposed to be? I think Bill is still smarting after that smack on the nose he got from O'Shea Jackson, and this is his passive aggressive way of whining about it.

Yeah, I always hate that argument too. Sure maybe you shouldn't be upset on their personal behalf by dragging them into fights that they themselves don't want to have, but there's no reason to use the person to defend somebody else's bigotry. There's plenty of reasons the person in question might have to say they're not upset besides the behavior being okay. It's not like any of the people who think Franken should resign are saying it's because the woman herself is so personally upset about it. It shouldn't be on the baseball player or the woman to be the target of anyone's anger for the punishment.

 

I remember being annoyed when people tried that with Roman Polanski too--the poor victim was dragged into it again with people saying how she herself just wanted to move on so everyone should support him in what he wants. 

[Victor the Crab]

Carl Bernstein was boss. I agree with him for the most part, especially about Wikileaks and albino ratfucker extraordinaire Julian Assange. Bernstein saw right through that POS from the start and what he actually stood for, which was more than can be said for Bill the stupid dumbfuck, who keeps showing he's not the smart person he keeps advertising himself to liberals.

The future headlines were pretty good - especially the part about Ted Cruz. But the New Rules sermon was a joke - apart from the orangutan reference. Trying to pass off Drumph as someone who used to be thoughtful and carrying is so laughable, given the shit he's pulled off his entire life.