Xscape Still Kickin' It - General Discussion

[AZ Curls]

I've got so many questions about the LaTocha $300,000 advance situation.  I never knew artists had to pay back the advance if their smaller label folded or jumped to another major label.  I always thought whatever music you made just gets owned by the label and you are never allowed to put it out on another label.  So LaTocha had to pay the label the $300,000 back?  I hope she got to keep all the songs she recorded.  Also if I had to pay back money that I didn't spend, and I knew someone else had access to that account (JD's dad) I would sue that person for that money.  The whole thing seems super shady and if I was LaTocha I would never talk to JD or his dad again.  They really screwed her over and she never got to put out solo music cuz of it.  I wonder if she also had to file bankruptcy due to the whole thing. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

22 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

I think he wanted her to be a traditional stay-at-home mom and not be out on the road. With her at home, he could also compel his other kids mothers to let those kids spend more time with him (the Tiny and TI reality show featured his oldest son and daughter, who actually both live with their mothers in ATL and not with TI and Tiny). Finally, if she is busy cooking, cleaning, doing homework and chauffeuring around a basketball team worth of kids, she has less time to be all up in his business regarding who he's hanging with in the studio, while he's on tour, and when he's off filming movies

For anybody to whom they're not really well known, the irony of this is that Tiny is/was arguably the bigger star.  They met at the height of Xscape fame and the consensus was that everybody who knew her was like girl who is this hanger onnner dude you latched onto?  Ole boy's a thug and he runs the streets cut 'im loose.   I'm digressing but my point is that his expectations weren't in line with their reality at the time, she was working and touring when they met, all during their courtship, after poppin out some kids, etc.  

11 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Plus he's a dick.

You know when I figured this out?   During one of the earliest episodes of their show - actually it may have been the show Tiny & Toya had together - anyway, one of her girlfriends was having a party.  We see her tell Tip I'm gone stop by have a drink, kee kee with the girls for a little bit and I'll be back in a couple of hours.   She had established her own music production company by this point so she was working but was mostly home with the kids.  He was about to surrender to authorities (the next morning) for a unconcealed weapons charge that would put him in jail for a bit.   She leaves the house, gets to her girlfriend's place and I promise you her ass had not hit the couch cushions before he calls and asks her to come home.  We hear her say of course I will, I'm just gone have a drink and you know, I'll be back in a little while.   On his end he says the equivalent of this is my last night at home, I need you here.   Next thing we see is her walking to the car, a little dejected but understanding.    She would leave the house to go visit her mom or go to the studio or she'd be at home.   She was gonna be gone for literally 120 minutes.   I said this dude is a passive aggressive controlling asshole. 

10 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

There are 4 SuperLounges at the Essence Festival.  They are large areas in the 4 corners of the SuperDome, and it's where they put everyone who isn't a headliner - either up and coming artists, artists making a comeback, or artists who are established but don't necessarily have a SuperDome-sized audience.  Usually there's not more than 60-100 people in the Lounges (they're out of the way and Essence is pretty awful at scheduling so they often have many of the SuperLounge folks on at the same time as some really big names on the mainstage).  For Xscape the room was packed!  We couldn't get in because the set we were watching from our seats overlapped.  The only good thing they did was that they live streamed the Xscape performance to the mainstage during the intermission (and me and my friends were like, "why the hell haven't they thought about doing this before????") and that's the only reason we were able to see some of their show.  

You're being far too kind.   Someone's cousin is in charge of scheduling.   Then the setup/proxmity from the mainstage is stupid.  I remember the only time I've been, it was the first year Erykah had come out, she was on the mainstage singing it was the first time we'd heard Tyrone - the live version you hear on the radio with the fan who beats her to the end lol, that was recorded at Essence.  Anyway, my favorite male artist of all everdom - Will Downing - was in the superlounge.    Erykah was on main, followed closely by Patti Labelle.   The chaos and fuckery that ensued from everybody going on between 8-9??   I forfeit Erykah to stay in the lounge with my boo but that room?  Holding 4000?  Lies.  There weren't 400 people in the room I was in and we were sardines.  

1 hour ago, AZ Curls said:

I've got so many questions about the LaTocha $300,000 advance situation.  I never knew artists had to pay back the advance if their smaller label folded or jumped to another major label.  I always thought whatever music you made just gets owned by the label and you are never allowed to put it out on another label.  So LaTocha had to pay the label the $300,000 back?  I hope she got to keep all the songs she recorded.  Also if I had to pay back money that I didn't spend, and I knew someone else had access to that account (JD's dad) I would sue that person for that money.  The whole thing seems super shady and if I was LaTocha I would never talk to JD or his dad again.  They really screwed her over and she never got to put out solo music cuz of it.  I wonder if she also had to file bankruptcy due to the whole thing. 

Yeah I dunno how this works either.   I was thinking that contractually the artist is obligated to cover what was spent in advance to promote and tour before record sales take off.  Like once the album dropped ticket sales take care of on the road costs and paying back the advance in full.   I would imagine there's some artist protection involved if the label folds, but it didn't, what Jermaine did was foul and dirty and a voluntary hardship, he just left after a dispute and formed his own label.  The weird thing was why not take Tocha with him?  He knew his actions killed her momentum, at least give her a chance to recoup the $.    His father is a hustler plain and simple.  He kept that money and never looked back.  The agreement is between the artist and label so if you're on the hook you have to concern yourself with where the money's going.  Even if you're a kid.   It's a hard lesson to learn.   He had a lot of nerve stepping to her as though he didn't know what happened.  

[Rlb8031]

2 hours ago, AZ Curls said:

I've got so many questions about the LaTocha $300,000 advance situation.  I never knew artists had to pay back the advance if their smaller label folded or jumped to another major label.  I always thought whatever music you made just gets owned by the label and you are never allowed to put it out on another label.  So LaTocha had to pay the label the $300,000 back?  I hope she got to keep all the songs she recorded.  Also if I had to pay back money that I didn't spend, and I knew someone else had access to that account (JD's dad) I would sue that person for that money.  The whole thing seems super shady and if I was LaTocha I would never talk to JD or his dad again.  They really screwed her over and she never got to put out solo music cuz of it.  I wonder if she also had to file bankruptcy due to the whole thing. 

 

18 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Yeah I dunno how this works either.   I was thinking that contractually the artist is obligated to cover what was spent in advance to promote and tour before record sales take off.  Like once the album dropped ticket sales take care of on the road costs and paying back the advance in full.   I would imagine there's some artist protection involved if the label folds, but it didn't, what Jermaine did was foul and dirty and a voluntary hardship, he just left after a dispute and formed his own label.  The weird thing was why not take Tocha with him?  He knew his actions killed her momentum, at least give her a chance to recoup the $.    His father is a hustler plain and simple.  He kept that money and never looked back.  The agreement is between the artist and label so if you're on the hook you have to concern yourself with where the money's going.  Even if you're a kid.   It's a hard lesson to learn.   He had a lot of nerve stepping to her as though he didn't know what happened.  

So, here's my (admittedly dated) understanding of how it works. The advance is supposed to cover all of the expenses in making the album (studio time, producers, purchasing beats, PR, marketing, remastering, making the physical records, cds, etc). Once you take that money, you owe it ALL back whether or not the album is actually produced or released. The ownership of the songs is dependent upon who actually owns the masters and while it could be the artist, it usually for new artists is the producer or the label head. Depending on your deals, the artist can be on the hook, or the production company (if production owns the artist entirely). Part of the whole Prince symbol phase was about his contract and the fact that the label owned anything he released as Prince. So he moved to the unpronounceable symbol as a way to reclaim ownership while the remainder of his contract ran out and ownership reverted to him. There is no artist protection if the label folds. If you take the money, you owe it, period. The bigger the artist, the bigger the advance, but woe be unto you if you don't produce. (See Mary Mary)

The artist makes very little off of record sales (something like a few pennies per download, album or CD). The majority of that funding goes to recoup the advance, then the remainder is profit primarily to the label, then production team. I seem to recall from an interview with TLC, its like the label and artist split the profit, then the artist pays producer, manager, attorney, accountants, etc. They then get what's left over. From a contractual perspective, contracts always favor the label, the producers, the managers, etc. And since most artists aren't steeped in business, many of them sign really bad deals early on that lock them into long-term contracts with very little leverage. Artists dollars come from touring and merchandise. So in Xscape's world, touring now is great for them. Any money they earn is theirs free and clear and they only have to pay the touring staff (manager, promoters, musicians, dancers) but no money goes to the label at all. On each ticket sold, the artist may get like 30-40% after expenses versus 1% pr less on the sale of a song or album.

[Hero]

Jermaine and his father are so slimy. 

[sATL]

3 hours ago, Rlb8031 said:

Any money they earn is theirs free and clear and they only have to pay the touring staff (manager, promoters, musicians, dancers) but no money goes to the label at all. On each ticket sold, the artist may get like 30-40% after expenses versus 1% pr less on the sale of a song or album.

Then there's taxes...another friememy to those who get paid large sums of gross income that can't or don't expense away everything

[Stardancer Supreme]

I wonder if Kandi was aware of Tocha's jam up by Jermaine and his daddy.  She was rightfully pissed about how Tocha's solo album was set up, but was she aware how the process turned out? I was impressed with Tocha and her level of self control, because I probably would have indulged to impulse to punch JD's daddy in the face.   I wonder if she had to pay that money back.  if so, I would have definitely sued the label and management. 

[AZ Curls]

I didn't watch a lot of that TI & Tiny reality show because it looked really fake but no matter how scripted it was, the jerkish ways of TI and how awful he was to Tiny seeped through and I always felt so bad for her.  Remember this rumor about the Kandi replacement (when they tried to re-unite years back without Kandi) that used to be Tiny's friend?  I still feel like this is true.

http://tattletailzz.com/could-tinys-former-friend-kiesha-miles-have-a-child-with-t-i-p/

 

The thing I learned from watching LaTocha on R&B Divas was she is not about the drama, she just has this really great ability to be calm and be above it when it's swirling around her.

[A.J.]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:04 AM, drivethroo said:

 One of the contributing factors that broke the group up was LaTocha & her solo deal that didn't work out and boyfriend (now husband) who was (mis)managing the group. 

I wonder why no one brought up to Tocha that she told the girls that she was going solo and said "Kandi you can go do modeling and Tamika and Tiny you can go and have more babies".  This was stated/agreed upon by each member she addressed these comments to on their episode of Unsung and yet no one brought it up on this reality show.  I really wanted to get Tocha's reaction to that statement. 

Nevertheless, I've always wanted to see Xscape and now I have my chance and my ticket.  I thought it would never happen.   So glad they could put their problems aside to give the fans what they want. 

[A.J.]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:04 AM, drivethroo said:

Kandi's voice is an essential ingredient to the group because she provides those bottom/low notes they need for the harmonizing.

So true.  And Kandi was always my favorite member.  To me Xscape had the best harmonies of any 90s female group, even En Vogue who I loved almost as much.  Even though the group would still sound good w/o Kandi, it wouldn't be the same.  It wouldn't be "the Xscape sound".  I feel that Kandi and Tocha contribute equally to that sound.  If one of them are missing, something is lost.   

[luckyroll3]

I can't stand Jermaine Dupri.  He's such a little, ugly troll.  And I am not surprised at all that his dad is also grimey as hell.  

[topanga]

On 11/28/2017 at 10:29 PM, A.J. said:

So true.  And Kandi was always my favorite member.  To me Xscape had the best harmonies of any 90s female group, even En Vogue who I loved almost as much.  Even though the group would still sound good w/o Kandi, it wouldn't be the same.  It wouldn't be "the Xscape sound".  I feel that Kandi and Tocha contribute equally to that sound.  If one of them are missing, something is lost.   

I agree. But I didn’t realize how powerful Tameka’s voice was until the Detroit show. And while they all still have great voices, their sound production remains bad. On the harmonies, sometimes their voices sound screechy, sometimes muffled. Maybe it sounded  better in person. But you’d think postproduction would clean up some of the sound issues. Nice to see Karen Clark-Sheard. She can still blow. 

And this totally superficial, but...ok, I really like Tiny. Her personality, devotion to her kids, and loyalty to her friends make me want to hang around her. And she still has an excellent voice.  But what is up with her skin? It looks pock-marked, like she used to have bad acne. But she never had acne or pock-marked skin during her Xscape years. Maybe it’s natural aging, and it’s made more noticeable because she’s standing next to the other three women with their brown, almost wrinkle-free skin. Or was she ever on drugs?  But I’ve never heard that, and I’m not trying to start a rumor. She’s definitely had some plastic surgery, though. Her mouth has that pointy ‘Joker’ shape that many women get after plastic surgery. 

[Cocoa Puff]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

I agree. But I didn’t realize how powerful Tameka’s voice was until the Detroit show. And while they all still have great voices, their sound production remains bad. On the harmonies, sometimes their voices sound screechy, sometimes muffled. Maybe it sounded  better in person. But you’d think postproduction would clean up some of the sound issues. Nice to see Karen Clark-Sheard. She can still blow. 

And this totally superficial, but...ok, I really like Tiny. Her personality, devotion to her kids, and loyalty to her friends make me want to hang around her. And she still has an excellent voice.  But what is up with her skin? It looks pock-marked, like she used to have bad acne. But she never had acne or pock-marked skin during her Xscape years. Maybe it’s natural aging, and it’s made more noticeable because she’s standing next to the other three women with their brown, almost wrinkle-free skin. Or was she ever on drugs?  But I’ve never heard that, and I’m not trying to start a rumor. She’s definitely had some plastic surgery, though. Her mouth has that pointy ‘Joker’ shape that many women get after plastic surgery. 

Tiny is ageing into her mother, no matter how much plastic surgery she gets. 

[Rlb8031]

15 hours ago, topanga said:

I agree. But I didn’t realize how powerful Tameka’s voice was until the Detroit show. And while they all still have great voices, their sound production remains bad. On the harmonies, sometimes their voices sound screechy, sometimes muffled. Maybe it sounded  better in person. But you’d think postproduction would clean up some of the sound issues. Nice to see Karen Clark-Sheard. She can still blow. 

^^^^ Yes to this 10,000 times. Kandi mentioned in one of her talking heads that they needed to hire better sound guys. The fact that they can spend hours going through a sound check, then get on stage and it sounds like someone is playing a warped cassette from the 80's is a problem of the highest magnitude. They need better equipment and someone who knows how to use it.

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 12/3/2017 at 7:14 PM, topanga said:

I agree. But I didn’t realize how powerful Tameka’s voice was until the Detroit show. And while they all still have great voices, their sound production remains bad. On the harmonies, sometimes their voices sound screechy, sometimes muffled. Maybe it sounded  better in person. But you’d think postproduction would clean up some of the sound issues. Nice to see Karen Clark-Sheard. She can still blow. 

And this totally superficial, but...ok, I really like Tiny. Her personality, devotion to her kids, and loyalty to her friends make me want to hang around her. And she still has an excellent voice.  But what is up with her skin? It looks pock-marked, like she used to have bad acne. But she never had acne or pock-marked skin during her Xscape years. Maybe it’s natural aging, and it’s made more noticeable because she’s standing next to the other three women with their brown, almost wrinkle-free skin. Or was she ever on drugs?  But I’ve never heard that, and I’m not trying to start a rumor. She’s definitely had some plastic surgery, though. Her mouth has that pointy ‘Joker’ shape that many women get after plastic surgery. 

She wasn't messing with her face back then.   I started to say maybe it's some random pregnancy result but she admits to trying injectibles.   I swear between her and Mickey Rourke, have we not had enough proof that it is generally a bad idea to fix what ain't broke?   That's not even the most drastic step she took.   She and Zonnique got ice blue eye implants a few years ago. 

When the time comes, somebody remind me to please find out who Miss Sophia's team is.    In this interview, she's 82 years old.  

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/video/sophia-loren-candid-view-37753071

Edited January 2, 2018 by ZaldamoWilder
was, wasn't. they mean different things.

[luckyroll3]

21 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

She and Zonnique got ice blue eye implants a few years ago. 

Shit, I didn't realize the daughter got them too!  How awful.

Or rather: 

Edited January 3, 2018 by luckyroll3

[Atlanta]

On 12/3/2017 at 10:48 PM, carolinagirl81 said:

Tiny is ageing into her mother, no matter how much plastic surgery she gets. 

I'm bumbling onto this forum since I used to work with her mother (a very nice person). How is she ageing into her?

[Cocoa Puff]

56 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

I'm bumbling onto this forum since I used to work with her mother (a very nice person). How is she ageing into her?

Just in the way that she favours her mom looks wise. You can tell that they're mother/daughter.