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S03.E07: Off the Record

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A reporter seeks revenge when he disorders Lucifer has been sleep with his estranged wife; a serial killer from Lucifer's past resurfaces.

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Strangely glad Linda was already on the outs with him when she started with Lucy, even if sleeping with her patient was really bad. However, murdering the girl did earn him a ticket to hell, even if being around the devil drove the reporter a little crazy.

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1 minute ago, Happywatcher said:

Strangely glad Linda was already on the outs with him when she started with Lucy, even if sleeping with her patient was really bad. However, murdering the girl did earn him a ticket to hell, even if being around the devil drove the reporter a little crazy.

He has put himself in hell.  The door isn't locked....

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35 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

He has put himself in hell.  The door isn't locked....

It seems likely that Lucifer knew what would happen to Linda's ex and intentionally gave him enough knowledge that he had a chance to get out one day.

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11 minutes ago, CaptainTightpants said:

I was so happy to see a disgruntled Dan mention the theft of his pudding one more time! I had feared that it would never happen again after the poison pudding episode. 

Except that this all took place at least a year before the poison pudding episode, when Lucifer had just started working with Chloe, Dan was jealous of him, Maze was protecting him, and Linda didn't yet know his secret.

10 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

It seems likely that Lucifer knew what would happen to Linda's ex and intentionally gave him enough knowledge that he had a chance to get out one day.

The point, I think, is that if he makes different choices next time, the result will be different.

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What's the appropriate torture for the FOX promo people who put Maze's ONLY scene in the promo like she was going to be really involved? Why did I trust FOX to begin with? Did DB Woodside ask for time off? Yet another episode without him. I'm not even a fan of Tricia Helfer but to reintroduce Charlotte then go two episodes (so far) with no real follow up seems a bit sloppy.

 

Lucifer juggling the breast implants was in the Comic Con trailer and I thought they were only the burn off eps. If Reese is suppose to be the guy from the end of Maze's episode, that would make sense they were originally made closer together. But maybe it's not isolated given Lucifer's comment about getting out and he'll be back. On a larger scale I have an issue with the idea that no one but the humans have a say in being in Hell. So that means there isn't a such thing as someone without remorse (otherwise the loophole there is heaven would have people too evil to care)? Hitler actually feels really bad? At the time it was a one-liner but Lucifer telling Linda "Trump's going" is because Lucifer just knows he'll think he deserves it and no higher power?  

 

Somehow Dan and his pudding still isn't old. I too am glad Linda didn't cheat. Looking back at where everyone stood a year ago was different and helped not do a stale case-of-the-week you could have seen on other straight up crime shows.. I always love hearing Linda declaring she's friends with Lucifer because of who he actually is despite the "devil". I got a kick out of all the things written under Charlotte Richards including "WTF". Hah. But I wasn't feeling how long it took Lucifer to get he was the other guy, sometimes Lucifer being not too up on humans works but not here he; probably had already heard Dan call Chloe his wife despite separation and in general he's not a complete idiot or at least he didn't used to be.

 

Is November Sweeps still a thing? If it is they dropped the ball. I know they had road blocks... but this is shaping up to be an example of why 22 episodes -let alone 26- a season isn't a good thing. The episodes haven't been awful but slow as a start up. Unless this is the start, which, please let this be the start of the direction of the rest of the season. And, please, Show have Chloe find Reese's research and find out the truth. Or have Trixie sit her down and explain it because she's just been hip to Luci not lying (she makes a lot of devil drawings, after all...), I don't care at this point, I just want her clued in.

Edited by Gigi43
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I thought this episode was exceptionally good.  I thought it was well structured-it seemed strange that we didn't know why Reese had nearly died, then everyone was acting as if this was a first season episode, then you eventually realized why that was, and then the ending brought it full circle, literally.

For a while in the middle I thought we would find out that the reporter was the one with the drawer full of files on everyone (which would make perfect sense) but I was wrong.

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59 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I thought this episode was exceptionally good.  I thought it was well structured-it seemed strange that we didn't know why Reese had nearly died, then everyone was acting as if this was a first season episode, then you eventually realized why that was, and then the ending brought it full circle, literally.

For a while in the middle I thought we would find out that the reporter was the one with the drawer full of files on everyone (which would make perfect sense) but I was wrong.

I just had this general sense of "this doesn't feel real" the entire time I was watching the episode, and it made sense why at the end. It's not real- it's Reese playing a loop of his last year on Earth over and over again because he won't learn the lesson he needs to learn. That being someone's hell is absolutely brilliant.

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35 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I just had this general sense of "this doesn't feel real" the entire time I was watching the episode, and it made sense why at the end. It's not real- it's Reese playing a loop of his last year on Earth over and over again because he won't learn the lesson he needs to learn. That being someone's hell is absolutely brilliant.

I'm going to have to do a rewatch on this episode. If it was a loop of his last year topside, that does make a lot more sense. I thought it was a flashback set over a month or so in the first season, until Dan talked about the pudding, Linda was in the supernatural loop, and saw Malcom mentioned on the whiteboard. All of which were end of S1 or S2. If I'd have been paying closer attention, the timeline probably wouldn't have confused me as much.

 

I love the concept of Hell as our own individualized, self-inflicted punishments. Reminds me of a cut scene from Dogma.

Azrael: Evil is an abstract! It's a human construct. But true to his irresponsible nature, Man won't own up to being the engineer of evil, so he blames his dark deeds on my ilk. But his selfishness is limitless, and it's not enough for him to shadow his own existence. He turned Hell into a suffering Pit - fire, wailing, darkness - the kind of place anyone would do anything to get out of. And why? Because he lacks the ability to forgive himself. It is beyond your abilities to simply make recompense for and regret the sins you commit. No - you choose rather to create a psychodrama and dwell in a foundless belief that God could never forgive your 'grievous offenses'. So you bring your guilt and inner-decay with you to Hell - where the horrid imaginations of so many gluttons-for-punishment give birth to the sickness that has infected the abyss since the first one of your kind arrived there, begging to be 'punished'. And in doing so, they've transformed the cold and solitude to pain and misery.

Edited by Rosiejuliemom

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1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

. If Reese is suppose to be the guy from the end of Maze's episode, that would make sense they were originally made closer together. But maybe it's not isolated given Lucifer's comment about getting out and he'll be back.

I took Lucifer's comment about the door being unlocked meaning heaven vs hell (or limbo if that exists in the show universe), not that humans in hell have the ability to reanimate themselves. Even if the door is unlocked he's still dead.

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I'm not enjoying these standalone episodes so much. All that just to give Maze 2 minutes screen time?

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5 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Lucifer juggling the breast implants was in the Comic Con trailer and I thought they were only the burn off eps. If Reese is suppose to be the guy from the end of Maze's episode, that would make sense they were originally made closer together. But maybe it's not isolated given Lucifer's comment about getting out and he'll be back. On a larger scale I have an issue with the idea that no one but the humans have a say in being in Hell. So that means there isn't a such thing as someone without remorse (otherwise the loophole there is heaven would have people too evil to care)? Hitler actually feels really bad? At the time it was a one-liner but Lucifer telling Linda "Trump's going" is because Lucifer just knows he'll think he deserves it and no higher power?  

Is it Hell you can get out of or just the "torture chambers"? I'm thinking the latter as it always sounded like humans have no say in where they're going.  The show has also mentioned that Lucifer/Maze did some punishing. If the only punishing were the "chambers" then that would make little sense. The concept of Hell would make little sense, actually.

But leaving the doors unlocked just sounds like something Lucifer would enjoy. Everyone could get out of their own personal Hell but they're not. I could also see a few certain chambers being locked. Or maybe their personal Hell is that they're trying to get out because they think they don't belong and they can't because their fear that they can't is making them unable to leave.

That was an interesting episode. I'm not sure yet how I feel about it. I didn't dislike it. I think I would have liked it to play out over more than one episode instead of it being a stand-alone episode. There was just so much going on, so much time that passed. With the current serial killer it also felt a tad bit too much. So, a year ago, they hunted a serial killer they didn't catch and that serial killer now overlapped with the Sinnerman, who is also a serial killer. I think I would have preferred had they made this serial killer the Sinnerman and have the reporter recur and discover things as we go along.

I did like the touch of humanity the serial killer displayed when he decided not to kill Lucifer because he realized that Lucifer wasn't who Reese had said he was.

And Reese is yet another human who I'd say, went insane when he realized that divinity exists. He was ready to let the story and Lucifer go and move on and then he saw Lucifer's true face and he became obsessed. Why is it that everyone but Linda has gone insane so far? Why hasn't Linda gone insane? Is it because she knew Lucifer well enough by the time he showed her his true face? She already knew the man, knew a lot about him, so, as much of a shock as it may have been, maybe she knew that he was like everyone else (even though he wasn't)?

The acting was spot on! I loved the many sides of Lucifer. It was like a crash course of who Lucifer is. The play boy, the charming gentleman, the Devil in both forms, as someone who loves punishing and someone who's scary, then there was the supernatural side, and the man behind the facade.

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That episode was a pretty good departure. The concept that humans are the author of their punishment isn't new, of course. If I remember Catechism correctly, Hell is defined as a personal choice to turn away from God. Given that Lucifer tried to stage a coup, I can see why he's in charge of Hell.

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I hated this episode with a passion.  The more of Lucifer I see, the more I hate him.  I am not buying that Lucifer didn't know who Reese was.  TPTB seem to dumb down Lucifer when it is convenient for storytelling purposes.  Lucifer isn't a good guy.  Lucifer will forever be an asshole who occasional does good things.

Reese was spiraling out of control.  Someone should have stepped in and gotten involved.  Dr. Linda knew Reese was headed for trouble.

That doesn't mean that Reese is not responsible for his own actions, he is.  It is just that, if someone had gotten involved, perhaps things would have turned out a bit differently for all involved.

Patrick Fabian is one hell of an actor.

John Billingsley had one heck of a performance as well.

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I didn't dislike the episode, it was fine, but I am tired of the stand-alone filler eps. This is actually the only one I stuck with to the end, though as soon as he woke up in the hospital I guessed he was in Hell.

I hope we get back to the 'Cinna-man' mystery soon.

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That was a brilliant episode, one of the best of the series so far.

The opening was incredibly disorienting, a perfect mirror to Reese's own disorientation.

Revisiting our characters in the beginning of their relationships was fun, it also showed how far they've come since the beginning. Lucifer's face when Linda explained to Reese that Luci was "a good man" and "my friend" was fantastic -- the devil, who isn't touched by much, was really affected and Tom Ellis played it so subtly and so well.

Everyone was good in this episode, the direction was good, the writing was good. The idea that we needed background on Linda had never crossed my mind; as the episode unfolded, it became clear how much we needed this to fill in the gaps in our understanding. 

Reese's case board was great, we could see he really was a star investigative reporter as he slowly but surely sussed out the truth. 

Again, my biggest complaint/fear is that these season 2 standalones are so superior to the new episodes (so far), that it makes me nervous whether season 3, which still hasn't found its stride, can ever measure up.

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35 minutes ago, Gummo said:

Again, my biggest complaint/fear is that these season 2 standalones are so superior to the new episodes (so far), that it makes me nervous whether season 3, which still hasn't found its stride, can ever measure up.

I agree. This season's timeline is completely murky and I thank GoT season 7 for highly training me in the art of ignoring timelines (don't ask, enjoy) :D At least it doesn't seem to confuse casual viewers, if Lucifer has some of those, if I rely on the ratings. And yes, on the one hand I'm going to need the show to go forward but considering how meh were most of the "true" S3 episodes, I'm not really looking forward to their return.

Reese would make a fabulous recurrent or season villain. I love the idea of him being the guy with the files.

What I loved most about this episode, aside from all the Linda finally some background YAYYYYYY, is how masterfully the tone changed. I began the episode laughing out my ass off (the vegan joke, LOL) and it ended in the darkest place. Not the first time they did it, but maybe the most impressive for me.

Although, WHERE ARE TRIXIE AND AMENADUDE?!

And hopefully Lesley Anne B. is back soon from maternity leave.

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I'm not even going to lie, I totally googled "Roosters of award winning size" to see if it was a real thing. Sadly it is not. 

Fox should have got on top of that and at least done a prank site for a couple of days! I would have laughed my ass off if pics of Tom Ellis holding giant roosters had popped up! What a missed opportunity.

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Lucifer told him that he doesn't decide where people go after death. The dead person makes their own decision and own personal Hell. When he said the door isn't locked, I think he meant people can stop punishing themselves and go to a better place. Not get out of Hell and be alive again. Just get out of Hell. 

 

I thought the beginning was odd when the guy was in the hospital but all they said was he had a brush with death.  

I thought I missed an episode when Lucifer used his Devil face. I was confused about what was going on. It all made sense at the end, but I also noticed there was kind of a strange blue hue during the episode. 

I don't remember season one very well, so I don't remember Lucifer visiting Dr. Linda at her house. I thought they were just carrying on at the office.  It just seemed like a therapist with benefits deal. 

Also, it seemed like a bad slip on Lucifer's part to admit that he is vulnerable around the detective. You generally try and keep what your kryptonite is to yourself. 

Did we know that Dr. Linda was married? I don't recall that being mentioned before. 

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Did we know that Dr. Linda was married?

I don't think we knew anything about Linda's private life before this episode.

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The only thing we knew about Linda was that she worked for a phone sex line during college/med school. 

 

While it was nice to get a glimpse of protective of Lucifer Maze, for an episode finally where we learn things about Linda I can't help but feel cheated we didn't get Maze reacting to Linda having a husband now snooping around. Clearly this was all from Reese's POV but "one year later" Maze would have been on his ass fierce over Linda. Hopefully in the future they'll talk about it.

Edited by Gigi43

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3 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

Lucifer told him that he doesn't decide where people go after death. The dead person makes their own decision and own personal Hell. When he said the door isn't locked, I think he meant people can stop punishing themselves and go to a better place. Not get out of Hell and be alive again. Just get out of Hell. 

Precisely. Lucifer was explicit that he had no control over where people go in the afterlife. That is entirely determined by the soul. If they feel like they belong in hell, then they'll go to Hell. If they stop believing that, then they are free to go.* Despite the invective that Lucifer has lobbed at Amenadiel about personally torturing souls, it's pretty clear that Lucifer was more Hell's superintendent and less individual torturer.

*I do wonder about those individuals who are so ill or broken that they cannot recognize right from wrong. These people have no guilt about any of their actions.

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Probably my favourite stand-alone episode. It helps that it had such a focus on Lucifer's demon nature, imo. And who knows if this is the first time that Reese goes through that. If I'm not mistaken, no one says anything about his "brush with death" and he doesn't seem to be dealing with any medical condition. Also, there's nothing outside his pov. So I don't think we've seen the time it happened for real. He was already in Hell at the beginning of the episode.

The worst people in the world don't feel guilty about the things they've done. They justify themselves or they just don't care and they're always "the good guys". Maybe the show is implying that evil people always know they're evil, even if it's deep down., but I don't think that's true. They might be afraid of getting caught, but feeling guilty is a completely different thing. 

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This was a really great stand alone episode, and I love when they get more into the cosmic side of the show and Lucifer's demonic nature. I like the mystery/cop stuff, but its the combination of procedural and supernatural that makes the show really unique for me, so this kind of episode is right up my ally. I thought the episode was starting out strange, and I continued to think "this episode seems off somehow" throughout. Then, when Dan and Lucifer were being really snippy towards each other, with Lucifer calling him Detective Deuche again instead of Daniel, it hit me that we must be in the past, but it took me until the end to realize we were in this guys personal Hell. I thought it was a cool twist, and one that cant be done on any other cop show. 

Actually, Reese is an interesting counterpoint to Dan, considering how Dan resented Lucifer and blamed him for everything in the past. Remember the murder knife episode, where Dan got the knife and almost killed Lucifer because he blamed him for everything wrong in his life? However, unlike Reese, Dan realized that he was to blame to blame for his own problems, and is now trying to be a better person and fix his own problems. 

I wonder if there are different levels of Hell for different sinners? Some end up in this kind of Groundhog Day Hell, while others get more of the fire and pokers and such? Or maybe behind every monster in history, theres just some asshole still convinced, in their core, that they were the good guys all along and that it was someone elses fault that they killed hundreds or thousands of people, or what they did was somehow justified.

Still not enough Maze for my liking, even though I guess I will have to be happy with my one little scene for now. 

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

I do wonder about those individuals who are so ill or broken that they cannot recognize right from wrong. These people have no guilt about any of their actions.

Maybe people like that, who are too broken or sick that they cant even understand what they did was wrong or have no ability to feel guilt, or except from Hell, on the grounds that their evil wasn't really their fault? I wonder if that might be the category this serial killer guy falls into? He really truly seemed to think his killings were justified, and was furious when he found out he was manipulated into almost killing an honest man, and accidentally killing a random person. He might be too out of his mind to even comprehend what he did. Who knows?

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6 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I thought they were just carrying on at the office. 

I can't cite the episode, I but recall one scene where Linda and Lucifer were in an actual bed together.  I doubt Linda has a bed in her office.

 

15 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

So, a year ago, they hunted a serial killer they didn't catch and that serial killer now overlapped with the Sinnerman, who is also a serial killer.

Not true.  Or not established to be true.  The Sinnerman apparently does "favors" for people for a price that comes due later.  Try to welsh on the deal and bad things happen.

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33 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

This was a really great stand alone episode, and I love when they get more into the cosmic side of the show and Lucifer's demonic nature. I like the mystery/cop stuff, but its the combination of procedural and supernatural that makes the show really unique for me, so this kind of episode is right up my ally. I thought the episode was starting out strange, and I continued to think "this episode seems off somehow" throughout. Then, when Dan and Lucifer were being really snippy towards each other, with Lucifer calling him Detective Deuche again instead of Daniel, it hit me that we must be in the past, but it took me until the end to realize we were in this guys personal Hell. I thought it was a cool twist, and one that cant be done on any other cop show. 

Actually, Reese is an interesting counterpoint to Dan, considering how Dan resented Lucifer and blamed him for everything in the past. Remember the murder knife episode, where Dan got the knife and almost killed Lucifer because he blamed him for everything wrong in his life? However, unlike Reese, Dan realized that he was to blame to blame for his own problems, and is now trying to be a better person and fix his own problems. 

I wonder if there are different levels of Hell for different sinners? Some end up in this kind of Groundhog Day Hell, while others get more of the fire and pokers and such? Or maybe behind every monster in history, theres just some asshole still convinced, in their core, that they were the good guys all along and that it was someone elses fault that they killed hundreds or thousands of people, or what they did was somehow justified.

Still not enough Maze for my liking, even though I guess I will have to be happy with my one little scene for now. 

Maybe people like that, who are too broken or sick that they cant even understand what they did was wrong or have no ability to feel guilt, or except from Hell, on the grounds that their evil wasn't really their fault? I wonder if that might be the category this serial killer guy falls into? He really truly seemed to think his killings were justified, and was furious when he found out he was manipulated into almost killing an honest man, and accidentally killing a random person. He might be too out of his mind to even comprehend what he did. Who knows?

I mostly remember that Dan was one of the few strong enough to resist the murder knife, even though Lucifer was calling Dan douche while he was holding the knife.

It's kind of unknowable how the whole culpability thing works in the big courtroom in the sky. The serial killer seems to understand that he killed because he went off his meds and may not feel "guilty" because of it.

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Maybe the key to escaping Hell isn't being guilt-free, but acknowledging your responsibility for all the wrong you've done and breaking the cycle to make better choices in the Groundhog Day loop?

Neil Gaiman's take on Hell had people condemning themselves to it as described in the show. Of course, in Season 1 they made it sound like it was Lucifer's job (and later Amenadiel's) to act as warden and keep damned souls there, so it's contradicting its own previous mythology.

Edited by Bruinsfan

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4 hours ago, johntfs said:

I can't cite the episode, I but recall one scene where Linda and Lucifer were in an actual bed together.  I doubt Linda has a bed in her office.

I remember the scene.  I thought they were in Linda's office and her client couch was a convertible.

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8 minutes ago, ProudMary said:
4 hours ago, johntfs said:

I can't cite the episode, I but recall one scene where Linda and Lucifer were in an actual bed together.  I doubt Linda has a bed in her office.

I remember the scene.  I thought they were in Linda's office and her client couch was a convertible.

That was my recollection.

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2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Maybe the key to escaping Hell isn't being guilt-free, but acknowledging your responsibility for all the wrong you've done and breaking the cycle to make better choices in the Groundhog Day loop?

Neil Gaiman's take on Hell had people condemning themselves to it as described in the show. Of course, in Season 1 they made it sound like it was Lucifer's job (and later Amenadiel's) to act as warden and keep damned souls there, so it's contradicting its own previous mythology.

Not necessarily, if we look at how Hell is constructed. Looks like a labyrinth (that reminds me of the movie Silent Hill that a friend made me watch years ago and that still creeps me out and/or the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin) and then there are the individual rooms. So, as I understand it, Lucifer's task was to make sure that the souls don't escape Hell per se (like Mom did) and it also sounded like he was giving punishment himself at times/overseeing Maze give punishment but Hell seems to a place with individual rooms, not just the individual rooms. The individual rooms seem to be the punishment/part of the punishment/torture.

 

Was this one of the left-over episodes from last season? I'm wondering because Mom attacking Linda was never brought up and I'd assume that Reese would have known about it and been at the hospital.

Edited by CheshireCat

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Was that guy in hell? I thought the lingering end shot was just an ominus warning?  Because in hell, you'd have NO hope...and he was happy he still had a chance.  But I did mss the first two or three minutes - making it really bizzare.  The line the door is open, I believe means that one can always repent.  Yes even Lucifer according to my Catholic theology teacher. Although they also taught it was not good to focus on him, creating a bit of guilt for me in watching. Even when I tell people about the show they look freaked out.

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1 hour ago, CheshireCat said:

Was this one of the left-over episodes from last season? I'm wondering because Mom attacking Linda was never brought up and I'd assume that Reese would have known about it and been at the hospital.

It was the 2nd free-standing episode.

59 minutes ago, Jlina said:

Was that guy in hell? I thought the lingering end shot was just an ominus warning?  Because in hell, you'd have NO hope...and he was happy he still had a chance.  But I did mss the first two or three minutes - making it really bizzare.  The line the door is open, I believe means that one can always repent.  Yes even Lucifer according to my Catholic theology teacher. Although they also taught it was not good to focus on him, creating a bit of guilt for me in watching. Even when I tell people about the show they look freaked out.

The last shot pulled back to show that he was indeed in hell. He just didn't know it.  Since he has free will, he could always change the outcome, by, I suppose, not being pathologically jealous of Lucifer.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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Are we really sure this was one of the 4 "free-standing" episodes?  

I don't know how to put on spoiler tags, so I'll just say that I looked at next week's episode description and it made me question this.

Edited by DEL901 · Reason: edited to clarity 1st sentence

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3 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Are we really sure this was a "free-standing" episode?  

I don't know how to put on spoiler tags, so I'll just say that I looked at next week's episode description and it made me question this.

I don't think it was a stand-alone episode, but not a "lore of the season" episode either.

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I'm very nervous that all the episodes that I've truly enjoyed this season were the left over episodes from season 2.  I am not sure that bodes well for the rest of the season. 

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It isn't Lucifer's fault, but he did kind of make the situation worse. Reese might have ended up punching Lucifer had he not been talked into trying to get epic revenge. If he punched Lucifer, he definitely wouldn't have been able to do a story on him. Plus, knowing the show, Lucifer might have helped Reese some other way before it was too late. It's not Luci's job to save everyone, but he really didn't help this time.

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I enjoyed this episode more than other this season, so yes, it does make me a little worried for the ones that were actually shot this season.

As for the few seconds of Maze, maybe the actress was too far along in her pregnancy to make much an appearance.

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10 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Are we really sure this was one of the 4 "free-standing" episodes?  

I don't know how to put on spoiler tags, so I'll just say that I looked at next week's episode description and it made me question this.

latest?cb=20170321005808yup, was definitely a last season episode. 

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11 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Are we really sure this was one of the 4 "free-standing" episodes?  

I don't know how to put on spoiler tags, so I'll just say that I looked at next week's episode description and it made me question this.

Regarding what you saw:

Spoiler

The episode was written and filmed last season. But they knew before they planned and wrote THIS season that it would be used in this season. So they decided to write a new episode that dealt with the fallout from that episode, as if it had actually been intended to be the episode right before this one all along. In other words, since it didn't air until season 3, they are writing season 3 as if it took place in season 3.

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One of the easiest ways to tell if an episode was originally a season 2 ep added to season 3 is whether Tom Welling is in the opening credits. While some shows don't include a series regular in the episode's credits if they don't actually appear in that episode, Lucifer is not one of those shows. (So Scarlett is always in the credits even though Trixie is probably in half the eps, at best, and Lesley and DB's names always appear, too, even though they've missed eps.) My digital tv guide includes the episode numbers in the descriptions, so it's been easy for me to identify original season 2 that way, too. It is so odd how they have been mixing 2.19 - 2.22 in with season 3. When those four episodes got bumped, I assumed they would play them in order and then start actual season 3. While that might have been a false easy assumption, I did not think they would mesh the way they have.  Next week's is 3.05.

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Weird episode, but I overall enjoyed it at the end.  It took me a few minutes to figure out that it was taking place a year ago, because I was wondering why was Lucifer and Linda suddenly back together, and why where Lucifer and Dan back to being more hostile then they are now.  And then there were several moments that felt almost unearthly and dream-like, but the ending about it actually being in Hell totally explained all of that.

Always a bit risky to have the regulars be more in the background for a guest character, but it is is hard to complain too much when the character is played by Patrick Fabian.  I thought he did an excellent job as Reese and really sold him descending into obsessiveness and insanity, but pulling himself out at the last minute to at least bring down the criminal he set loose.  Totally didn't see him being Linda's ex and their scenes were great.

Oh, John Billingsley!  I love you, but you usually always play two kinds of characters: nebbish, lovable geeks or psychotic killers.  No in-betweens!

At least they got Maze for a scene.  But now Amenadiel again?  Boo!

Despite less screen time then normal, I thought Tom Ellis actually had some really great moments.  Lucifer's reaction to the woman dying and knowing he was the target was well done, his speech about Hell to Reese was intense, and his face when Linda said he was a good person was perfection.  And then there were all the humorous moments like the glee over his rooster stunt.

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I was glad to get more background on Linda. Loved her telling the ex that Lucifer is a good man, and the look on his face as she said that and that he was her friend were wonderful. But other than that, meh. Other than moment I'm just not into this show anymore. At least we didn't have to listen to someone tell Lucifer he's in love with Chloe for the umpteenth time, though Reece did get close there for a moment. Show, if you have to keep making characters say it, you are doing a piss poor job of actually showing it.

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On 2017-11-14 at 11:12 AM, icemiser69 said:

The more of Lucifer I see, the more I hate him. Lucifer isn't a good guy.  Lucifer will forever be an asshole who occasional does good things.

I'm with you all the way. I don't see the rakish charmer everyone else sees. He's a selfish, immature pain in the ass.

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30 minutes ago, Mrs OldManBalls said:

I'm with you all the way. I don't see the rakish charmer everyone else sees. He's a selfish, immature pain in the ass.

Well, he's a celestial being who was kind of a royalty in Hell (remember his comment that it's been ages since I sat on a throne) and is still earning what the hell are everyone's problem with the way he acts. But, yeah, he's an asshole, but that's why I find the situation funny.

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On 11/13/2017 at 9:13 PM, Gigi43 said:

What's the appropriate torture for the FOX promo people who put Maze's ONLY scene in the promo like she was going to be really involved? Why did I trust FOX to begin with? Did DB Woodside ask for time off? Yet another episode without him. I'm not even a fan of Tricia Helfer but to reintroduce Charlotte then go two episodes (so far) with no real follow up seems a bit sloppy.

 

Lucifer juggling the breast implants was in the Comic Con trailer and I thought they were only the burn off eps. If Reese is suppose to be the guy from the end of Maze's episode, that would make sense they were originally made closer together. But maybe it's not isolated given Lucifer's comment about getting out and he'll be back. On a larger scale I have an issue with the idea that no one but the humans have a say in being in Hell. So that means there isn't a such thing as someone without remorse (otherwise the loophole there is heaven would have people too evil to care)? Hitler actually feels really bad? At the time it was a one-liner but Lucifer telling Linda "Trump's going" is because Lucifer just knows he'll think he deserves it and no higher power?  

 

Somehow Dan and his pudding still isn't old. I too am glad Linda didn't cheat. Looking back at where everyone stood a year ago was different and helped not do a stale case-of-the-week you could have seen on other straight up crime shows.. I always love hearing Linda declaring she's friends with Lucifer because of who he actually is despite the "devil". I got a kick out of all the things written under Charlotte Richards including "WTF". Hah. But I wasn't feeling how long it took Lucifer to get he was the other guy, sometimes Lucifer being not too up on humans works but not here he; probably had already heard Dan call Chloe his wife despite separation and in general he's not a complete idiot or at least he didn't used to be.

 

Is November Sweeps still a thing? If it is they dropped the ball. I know they had road blocks... but this is shaping up to be an example of why 22 episodes -let alone 26- a season isn't a good thing. The episodes haven't been awful but slow as a start up. Unless this is the start, which, please let this be the start of the direction of the rest of the season. And, please, Show have Chloe find Reese's research and find out the truth. Or have Trixie sit her down and explain it because she's just been hip to Luci not lying (she makes a lot of devil drawings, after all...), I don't care at this point, I just want her clued in.

The thing is that even Hitler knew the Holocaust was wrong. That's why he and his subordinates went to such lengths to hide what they were doing. They took a significant amount of care in the language they used in writing those policies. So I think that even if Hell actually operates the way it does on this show, people like Hitler will still be there. Even Bundy knew that what he was doing was wrong...

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