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S01.E20 Go Pirates!: Girls On Film

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I don't have much issue with Veronica skipping out on the boat date with Logan instead of going out to confront him about the allegations. If she'd gotten on the boat to accuse him of raping her, I'd be screaming about the stupidity of confronting a potentially violent psychotic jackass on a boat in the middle of the water with no one else around.

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Saw this this morning :(
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/veronica-mars-actor-brad-bufanda-dies-by-suicide-at-34/ar-AAuppPa?li=BBnbfcL

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Going from a very hazy memory, didn't the gay guy say that Ted/Tod/Tad had bullied him for being gay and that it was revenge for him, too? I didn't feel it was out of character for Veronica to get revenge in any way possible (she's not above resorting to illegality to hurt people she feels have wronged her and it's not as if gay shaming wouldn't work) - she's not exactly a nice person. I did like that the girl DIDN'T want revenge as it wouldn't put the genie back in the bottle (though seriously, would a video of you fellating a popsicle really be that bad? It seems a bit minor for the amount of grief it supposedly causes*).

So many of the bit players get thrown a bone here too. We get "Mr Weed" being sinister yet competent, Cliff fighting for the side of what passes for good in Neptune and Mac's "about 40 minutes?" answer when asked to set up a revenge porn website (probably not an unreasonable figure either, if you knew what you were doing). Was this the "Flat?" "Just as God made me!" exchange while V was changing her tyre?

* Evidently John Ramos agrees with me!

Edited by John Potts
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The impression I got was that she did more than fellate the Popsicle. 

If that episode aired now the solution would be pretty simple: she was underage when the video was filmed and posted so Tad could be arrested and charged with filming and distributing child porn.  He'd end up on the sex offender registry and certainly get his acceptance to the Naval Academy revoked.  The question would still be if Carmen were willing to pursue that level of vengeance. 

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5 hours ago, John Potts said:

Was this the "Flat?" "Just as God made me!" exchange while V was changing her tyre?

That was not in this episode. The exchange was with Troy, so it would have been in one of the early episodes.

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9 hours ago, John Potts said:

 (though seriously, would a video of you fellating a popsicle really be that bad? It seems a bit minor for the amount of grief it supposedly causes*).

 

Yeah I think it’s teen show short cut for something else more embarrassing that they couldn’t build a show around.  

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Just listened to podcast. Busy weekend. 

So I don’t think a sane woman visits the vampire’s castle at midnight or confronts her potential rapist alone on a boat.

Spoiler

Logan could simply have sexually assaults her and encouraged others to do so with a ‘salt lick’ scenario, good times, and drugged his friend , lowering the friend’s inhibitions so the friend raped Veronica. 

Which would be, you know, fine because Logan was mad at her at the time. 

But she doesn’t know that.

Frankly I don’t feel sorry for Logan in this scenario. He actually does worse than she suspects. 

I thought Aaron driving Veronica home was him starting his courtship and yeah second time around, creepy. 

Veronica could use real parenting that addresses what she is actually involved in as could everyone else. Logan. What’s his name. Carmen.  

Edited by Affogato
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Don’t quite know how to word this. Carmen not wanting revenge is one of many moments Veronica confronts when going for the throat isn’t the best way. It takes her a while to learn whatever lesson it is. I think. 

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Spoiler

Man, I'd forgotten the salt lick. That was gross, and, yes, sexual assault as well. Now that I'm reminded, I remember John talking in his recap about why it made sense to him that Veronica would give a Logan a pass on that, and I agreed. I wonder if his opinion might have changed? I think mine has. Well, that's for next week.

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4 hours ago, Melgaypet said:
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Man, I'd forgotten the salt lick. That was gross, and, yes, sexual assault as well. Now that I'm reminded, I remember John talking in his recap about why it made sense to him that Veronica would give a Logan a pass on that, and I agreed. I wonder if his opinion might have changed? I think mine has. Well, that's for next week.

Spoiler

Yes it will be interesting. 

It is hard to think of forgiveness for Cassidy or Logan. dK was a Victim, too. 

Interesting thing about the end of season two, too.  If rape is about power instead of sex....

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On ‎04‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:05 PM, Affogato said:

Yeah I think it’s teen show short cut for something else more embarrassing that they couldn’t build a show around.  

I guess that's the implication, but it would be nice if there was a line of dialogue like, "It gets worse from there." Obviously they're not going to show a girl (even a 20 something playing a teen) being date raped, but it could have done with at least suggesting that something like that had happened.

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9 minutes ago, John Potts said:

I guess that's the implication, but it would be nice if there was a line of dialogue like, "It gets worse from there." Obviously they're not going to show a girl (even a 20 something playing a teen) being date raped, but it could have done with at least suggesting that something like that had happened.

Considered what happened to veronica at the same party I don’t think it is a stretch. The thing was Carmen didn’t remember..this was proof something happened and like Veronica she’d been hoping it hadn’t happened. Woke up without her panties too?

I also assume, btw, that the bullying of Veronica by Logan and company, which we see is outrageous sexual harassment when it isn’t car abuse was probably worse than we saw. Dick whipping out his dick and masturbating in front of her seems in character but wouldn’t play on tv. For example.

Edited by Affogato

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Logan and and Cassidy's actions and history are not comparable what so ever..wtf.

Secondly the show did not imply something worse happened in this party than what we saw on flashbacks during the revelations from the first two seasons of this show and it was already enough in the horrible department.

No need to rewrite this show in order to add more outrageous, gross, obscene scenes/actions fantasy..we saw the characters's actions, their history, their interactions..and it was written beautifully..And it is not a question of 'wouldn't play for tv' since it was a freaking tv show..it was play for tv actually and it was realistic enough in the context of the story.

Edited by pau

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Weird - I always thought the show made it pretty clear that Carmen did more than fellate the popsicle. I assumed she, ahem, rounded all the bases with it. Going by the show’s logic, GHB acts like ecstasy - which I don’t think is 100% accurate but I’m not exactly a drug maven so whatever - so Carmen would be wanting to get her own rocks off, no? And that would be far more embarrassing.

On a separate note, I’ve watched the whole series through several times and literally every time I see this episode, I think Logan says the yacht club is called “Apple Core” and it’s not until they show the flag at the club that I’m like, “Albacore! Well, that’s a much better name!” Every. Time.

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5 hours ago, PrettySticks said:

Weird - I always thought the show made it pretty clear that Carmen did more than fellate the popsicle. I assumed she, ahem, rounded all the bases with it. Going by the show’s logic, GHB acts like ecstasy - which I don’t think is 100% accurate but I’m not exactly a drug maven so whatever - so Carmen would be wanting to get her own rocks off, no? And that would be far more embarrassing.

On a separate note, I’ve watched the whole series through several times and literally every time I see this episode, I think Logan says the yacht club is called “Apple Core” and it’s not until they show the flag at the club that I’m like, “Albacore! Well, that’s a much better name!” Every. Time.

GHB  is a sedative which relaxes anxiety and inhibitions. Which would make people more willing to have sex, possibly with people they wouldn’t normally have sex with.  Overdoses can cause memory loss, veronica is a small person. Also respiratory failure, etc. esp when mixed with alcohol  

ecstasy is a hallucinogen which is often used in similar circumstances. 

I think they had the correct drug. 

I’m not a drug maven either I just looked it up at some point. 

https://www.liveabout.com/date-rape-drugged-3195874

has a description of how it feels which is pretty close to what we saw Veronica experiencing I think.

Edited by Affogato · Reason: Keyboard changed word

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I buy every single thing Aaron does in this episode. At the end of the day Aaron Echols is a psychopath, and psychopaths can be very charming. Until, you know, they become terrifying.  

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The scene with Aaron and Veronica in the car always put me on edge. The first time I saw it, I had no clue what was to come but he made me uneasy. I couldn't quite place why as it felt sort of like he was going to hit on her but there was something even more sinister underneath. Yet, on the surface he was totally charming and fun. I think Harry Hamlin conveyed that psychopathic charm very well.

Perhaps it's my age or maybe my deeply conservative upbringing coming into play but if there had been a video of me like Carmen's, yeah it would have been terrible and caused a great deal of grief. Trying to put this into the perspective of time and the character, maybe it wouldn't be as bad but I think it would be worth the effort to try to stop him.

Edited by Flamingo · Reason: Accidentally posted before completing a sentence.

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Re: The notice of divorce proceedings in the paper. I didn't think Keith actually KNEW that Veronica had found Lianne and got her into rehab (he'd certainly not be on board with Veronica spending her college fund on her mother's rehab), and as far as he knew, Lianne left ages ago and was just still out there in the world and was probably never coming back. Veronica has been watching Keith and Alicia's courtship "knowing" that it will only be temporary, because her mother will be back home as soon as her rehab is done. That's why reading about the divorce proceeding made her so upset... Her father is giving up on Lianne and moving on with someone else (and rightly so!), and has no idea that (in Veronica's mind) Lianne is maybe just weeeks away from coming back so they can be a family again, and Alicia will be dropped like a hot potato.

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On 11/4/2017 at 2:06 PM, paulvdb said:

That was not in this episode. The exchange was with Troy, so it would have been in one of the early episodes.

I want to say it was episode 2. I think that I as their first encounter. 

On 11/5/2017 at 7:15 PM, Affogato said:

Just listened to podcast. Busy weekend. 

So I don’t think a sane woman visits the vampire’s castle at midnight or confronts her potential rapist alone on a boat.

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Logan could simply have sexually assaults her and encouraged others to do so with a ‘salt lick’ scenario, good times, and drugged his friend , lowering the friend’s inhibitions so the friend raped Veronica. 

Which would be, you know, fine because Logan was mad at her at the time. 

But she doesn’t know that.

Frankly I don’t feel sorry for Logan in this scenario. He actually does worse than she suspects. 

I thought Aaron driving Veronica home was him starting his courtship and yeah second time around, creepy. 

Veronica could use real parenting that addresses what she is actually involved in as could everyone else. Logan. What’s his name. Carmen.  

I never considered him starting to groom Veronica like he did Lilly. That’s a really interesting perspective. 

On 11/19/2017 at 6:49 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

Re: The notice of divorce proceedings in the paper. I didn't think Keith actually KNEW that Veronica had found Lianne and got her into rehab (he'd certainly not be on board with Veronica spending her college fund on her mother's rehab), and as far as he knew, Lianne left ages ago and was just still out there in the world and was probably never coming back. Veronica has been watching Keith and Alicia's courtship "knowing" that it will only be temporary, because her mother will be back home as soon as her rehab is done. That's why reading about the divorce proceeding made her so upset... Her father is giving up on Lianne and moving on with someone else (and rightly so!), and has no idea that (in Veronica's mind) Lianne is maybe just weeeks away from coming back so they can be a family again, and Alicia will be dropped like a hot potato.

I really don’t think Keith ever found out Veronica had put Lianne in rehab. At least not in season 1. 

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