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S08.E03: Monsters

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9 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I'm getting combat fatigue from watching the endless scenes of people shooting at each other. You can't even tell who's firing on whom anymore.

I know!  It's getting tedious.  There were times I was wondering if those were good guys or bad guys we were watching.  Time for some actual, you know, plot.

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

This hasn't occurred to one of these saviors? They lack consciences and/or souls.

I know!  They are so cartoonish, blindly following their leader without any agency of their own.  Other than Dwight has anyone woken up?  I thought maybe Morales might... until Daryl cut the conversation short.

9 hours ago, Starchild said:

If I had to let someone I loved wander off as a zombie, I would feel guilty about them walking around like that for the rest of my life. Poor Aaron.

I know!  That guy that was comforting Aaron should have taken out zombie Eric for him.  What are friends for?

6 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

I'm all for turning the whole show into "characters start making pretentious or tedious speeches" and Darryl pops up and shoots them.  It doesn't have to make any narrative sense about where Darryl's supposed to be at any given time.  And it doesn't matter which side the boring speechifier is on.  Just anytime somebody, anybody starts with the "blah,blah,blah" Darryl pops up and shoots them.  That's the show I want to see these days.

I know!  Start with Jesus.

2 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

Katelyn Nacon seems to be improving steadily.  She's settling into playing Enid fairly well.  I actually liked her acting in the scenes with Maggie this week.

I know!  Her face has also matured noticeably.  She doesn't look like a kid anymore.

I'm over Gregory but can't help but enjoy Xander Berkeley.  We all know well that he is going to betray Hilltop again.  And steal pancakes.

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The only group I'm even remotely concerned about at this point is The Kingdom. I like Ezekial and his bluster. I liked seeing the confidence and strategy their group was employing. So that final scene kind of sucks. 

Everyone else? Meh. I know Rick and Daryl won't die, so I don't even remotely get worked up about them. And all the other fights....I can't even tell who is on what side. I don't recognize half the people. Don't really care. 

I really wasn't feeling the whole "Morales is back! And a Savior!" storyline. It didn't feel authentic to me. More like fan service. I was glad when Daryl shot his wordy ass. At least someone on this show knows how to deal with incessant speechifying. 

In fact, Daryl has been pretty ruthless and awesome so far this season. Gets info from Savior, puts a bullet in him. THAT'S the Daryl that used to be my favorite on this show. No moping, no posing. Just getting shit done. 

Jesus, on the other hand, is working my last nerve. I was soooo hoping Morgan would kill him. What a moron. Yea, let's march dozens of psycho killers into the compound where we keep our families, children, etc. Great idea! Oh, and then when a walker attack breaks out (I'm still stumped as to how/why those walkers were somersaulting down the hill), and a group of them takes off, let's just allow them to live. Because it's not like they were going to try and get free and kill us all. Fucking idiot. 

And I wish this show could find something to do with Morgan other than make him a crazed clearer or a naive pacifist. Morgan was such a cool guy. Can't he have some middle ground, damnit!!!???

Gregory is a walking douche and I'd never let him into the Hilltop, but I am praying they keep him around because his scenes are the only comic relief this show has. "Cal is delusional!" All his banter at the gate had me in stitches. #ifgregorydiesiriot

 

Didn't care that Eric died. Never knew enough about him to get invested. Glad they saved baby Gracie, though.

Edited by ghoulina
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If I had to let someone I loved wander off as a zombie, I would feel guilty about them walking around like that for the rest of my life. Poor Aaron.

I would feel far more guilty if the walker came back and made a snack out of one of the "good guys".

 

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I'm all for turning the whole show into "characters start making pretentious or tedious speeches" and Darryl pops up and shoots them. 

Whack-a-Troll.

Edited by icemiser69
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10 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Speaking of Rick he left Sophia out when he mentioned the members who were dead.

Also Jacqui, T-Dog, Merle, and Dale. 

 

3 hours ago, kelslamu said:

Also, her yelling at Gregory to go when talking to Jesus was the worst acting I've seen in a while.  I'm a mom and could have made that more believable. lol

Is it just me or has Lauren Cohan gotten worse as the years have gone on? I thought she was decent in the early years, but these past couple of seasons she's just been cringe-worthy to me. Is it poor writing? Or did she look better in comparison to Emily Kinney's awful, wooden acting? I don't know, but I'm not feeling Maggie lately. 

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15 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I really wasn't feeling the whole "Morales is back! And a Savior!" storyline. It didn't feel authentic to me. More like fan service. I was glad when Daryl shout his wordy ass. At least someone on this show knows how to deal with incessant speechifying. 

I think TPTB included him so the annoying fans that keep asking what happened to him finally shut up about it. I can remember all the way back in season 2 that these fans said we would "for sure" find out Morales was living at the farm. When that didn't happen, these fans said we would "for sure" find Morales living at Woodbury, then the prison, then Terminus, and so on. Heck, some of these people thought he'd end up over on Fear the Walking Dead. I'm glad they finally showed Morales and his definitive death. Move on, people. 

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I did laugh when we learned Gregory ate some girls pancakes.

Gregory is such a douche.  Eating a girl's pancakes, what a "waffle" thing to do.

Xander Berkeley is doing a great job at portraying that weasel Gregory.  The best acting on this series by far.  Gregory is doing whatever he has to do to survive.  He won't sacrifice himself for anyone.

Doesn't anyone in Rick's group care about Father Pee-Pants?

Edited by icemiser69
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9 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I think TPTB included him so the annoying fans that keep asking what happened to him finally shut up about it. I can remember all the way back in season 2 that these fans said we would "for sure" find out Morales was living at the farm. When that didn't happen, these fans said we would "for sure" find Morales living at Woodbury, then the prison, then Terminus, and so on. Heck, some of these people thought he'd end up over on Fear the Walking Dead. I'm glad they finally showed Morales and his definitive death. Move on, people. 

It is a massive stretch IMO that Morales ended up in the same area of Virginia after being in Georgia and heading towards Alabama. Rick's crew headed towards Atlanta and then DC.  All the millions of acres of land in between those destinations, it just breaches all sense of rationality for me. What Negan's crew extends that far? No way. Atlanta and Virginia (where Rick's crew is), are NOT that close. I have driven it, I know. 

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I think I missed a scene somewhere in these first episodes... where did they find the barrels of ammo?  Or maybe they are using Willy Wonka branded "everlasting ammo" guns?

And speaking of 3 episodes... is it still the say day?  Yikes.

And talk about the clunky foreshadowing.  Every time the king talked about how they hadn't lost any men, I kept thinking, "yet".  It isn't possible or reasonable to think that in a battle, you won't lose ANY people, but that's what they thought and their feelings of invulnerability just got a bunch of people shot... you just don't stand out in the open before an enemy target and speechify until you are sure there are no enemy around.

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Lauren Cohen didn't sell it for me this week. She's not good at conveying anger, I guess? It was distracting and usually I don't mind her. 

Cal made the episode for me. More Cal, please. And more people like Cal, actually! People who talk and react like recognizable human beings! That'd be great. 

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5 hours ago, ShadowSixx said:

Jesus choosing now to save lives is really ridiculous. If he wants to be with the hostages then he can watch them by himself. It really shouldn't be his decision alone and people should vote on whether or not they keep them alive. Morgan pointed out that the Saviors will not hesitate to try and escape which was evident. Jesus don't think that the Saviors won't hesitate to put a bullet in his head the minute they get an opportunity. If only Morgan had beat some sense into him. 

Personally, I think they should take all the Savior survivors and put them in a barn.  

And then let them out of the barn.  

Hey, it worked with Sophia and her new friends....

 

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The episode wan't a complete loss. Jesus/Morgan fight was good and Cal flipping off Greg.

The Cal/Greg exchange was the comedic high point of this season, hands down.  Maybe the last two, even.  :)

 

4 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

I don't think that Maggie bought jack shit from Gregory.  She knows very well who and what he is.  She just let him because she's not the person he is. 

Total agreement; Maggie was playing the next exciting round of “What Would Glenn Do (WWGD)?”.

 

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Personally, yes, I would've left him out there to die, as well.  Especially when it became apparent to her and Enid that he'd left poor Gabriel out to dry.  But it's not in her nature to leave anyone to die.  If nothing else, she just showed that she is a far better human being than he is.

Still would've left him to fend for himself, though.

Left Greggy Weggy to fend for himself?  Oh, HELL no.  I’d have ventilated Gregory’s brain pan the moment he shoved that huge, gleaming target of a forehead against the gap between the gates.

Well, maybe not.  A gutshot might be more fun - because then you get to let Gregory Braingobbler stroll around a few years or so....

 

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I certainly don't hate Jesus, but I'm definitely tired of his wanting to save people's lives.  Both Tara and Morgan were right that they should just kill them.

It’s a little late in the game for Jesus to suddenly develop a sense of charmingly idealistic naïveté - it’s getting in the way of getting shit done.

Edited by Nashville
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I knew I was right to be pre-emptively disappointed with the Morales return as the show and the franchise in general never misses the opportunity to screw up something that could have been interesting.  I had really wanted him to see what had become of the few people he knew from the beginning when they were all running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  The show did momentarily get my hopes up when Morales visibly reacted to news that his fearless leader had bludgeoned Glenn to death and "the widow" he's been hearing about is Glenn's wife, but he just kept talking and talking and talking until the arrow through the head and that was that.  Seriously, show?  We're eight seasons in and we're still circling the "you're a monster" "no, you're the monster" drain?  You guys are going through ammo shooting at each other like you're in Gulf War-circa Fallujah.  That ship has kind of sailed.

If there was any justice in this Jesus and Maggie and her terrible accent should be sharing a trailer with all the Saviors he just had to keep as pets.  Since Jesus showed up ninjaing supply trucks into lakes rather late in our story, I think we're supposed to assume Jesus hasn't really had to wrestle with the are we good guys or bad guys conundrum umpteen times yet and hence thinks people snarling at and taunting their captors can been redeemed.  Or not.  I don't care.  I just know I was rooting for on again off again crazy Morgan to put his now sharpened stick through Jesus's head to move things along, which only reminds me that I still have no idea what the hype about this character was about.  I'm sure there will be no possible fallout from bringing a bunch of people who want to kill you back to the place where you sleep with no means to permanently restrain them.

Aaron might want to consult with Morgan on the danger of letting a loved one wander off zombified, you know, if Morgan wasn't off wandering crazy again himself.  The show was clearly wanting me to feel something about Eric's end, but he's been so undeveloped that it fell short.  There was something about collecting license plates in his and Aaron's introduction and the Daryl spaghetti slurping incident and other than that, I can't remember a thing about him and now he's dead so oh well.

Gregory may be a weaselly asshat but he's the most entertaining weaselly asshat we've got and always makes the most of the material, so I'm happy to keep him around even if it means that Maggie has to yet again be a dumbass to let him in.  At this point, I'm almost hoping he's the last survivor of the ZA just because it would be amusing to watch him steal pancakes and get flipped off along the way.

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1 hour ago, riverheightsnancy said:

It is a massive stretch IMO that Morales ended up in the same area of Virginia after being in Georgia and heading towards Alabama. Rick's crew headed towards Atlanta and then DC.  All the millions of acres of land in between those destinations, it just breaches all sense of rationality for me. What Negan's crew extends that far? No way. Atlanta and Virginia (where Rick's crew is), are NOT that close. I have driven it, I know. 

Well... while we know where the Saviors have ended up, we know nothing of how they got here.  Morales said he and his family “never made it to Birmingham” (indicating they got killed en route somewhere between Atlanta and B’ham), he went to curl up and die in a truck trailer or some such, and was “found” by the Saviors.  Which leaves us with two options:

  1. The Saviors have/had a MASSIVE scouting network which covered at least half of the eastern U. S.; or,
  2. The Saviors themselves were a roaming group at the time, moving through roughly the same geographical area, when Morales was found and picked up by a short-range recon group scouting around the main party.

#1 is ridiculous - CDB would have encountered them several times on the walkabout from ATL to DC, at the very least - so I’m leaning towards #2.

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2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Xander Berkeley is doing a great job at portraying that weasel Gregory.  The best acting on this series by far.  Gregory is doing whatever he has to do to survive.  He won't sacrifice himself for anyone.

Doesn't anyone in Rick's group care about Father Pee-Pants?

Totally with you on Gregory. 

There was another bald black guy in the mix (comforting Aaron) who looks so much like FPP (tho taller I think) that I was confused at times.

8 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

 

Eric and Aaron...meh.  I barely remember Eric being on the show, so can't get too worked up about his demise. 

Rolling Walkers...a great name for a rock band, besides being my favorite scene in tonight's show.

Eric was always too clean shaven to survive. I'm now totally shipping Aaron/Jesus - they both have such lovely eyes.

And yes to the band idea - great name!

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1 hour ago, Door said:

Cal made the episode for me. More Cal, please. And more people like Cal, actually! People who talk and react like recognizable human beings! That'd be great. 

Yes. When Jesus and Morgan were talking I was like omg what the fuck are you saying?! Gobbleditygook blah blah blah I don't understand! 

I've said before that people on this show do not talk like any real people I've ever heard.

Edited by festivus
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12 hours ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I totally get where Tara is coming from, but she needs to remember what happened at the prison. Not saying that she needs to be all in for taking prisoners, just that she might want to keep her past in mind.

But Tara was one person.  That’s a whole chain gang they’re dragging along.

Tara was also part of a group of rubes scammed by the Guv. These are hardened killers.   

Why were the walkers rolling down the hill?  I thought it was an ambush, but no.  They just decided to roll like donuts. 

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The only person I'm rooting for right now is Gracie. She can join Judith and be a dynamic duo. I wonder if Aaron is going to raise her? I still think she's Negan's kid. Maybe  that'll really bring the hammer down.

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I enjoyed most of that episode. It had walkers,  and my favourite people were being ruthless and getting stuff done. And then Jesus happened. 

I really don’t get his deal here. People are at war. Resources (except ammo) are finite. It’s not like the Saviours are useful and self-sufficient. They thrive by preying on others and taking their resources. They’re violent freeloaders. What exactly is Jesus thinking they can bring to the table? Who does he think has time to guard them? The Hilltop has a lot of noncombatants and Jesus brought mostly angry, resentful males. Who does he think is going to feed them? I’m fine with giving them Gregory’s rations but that’s not going to go far. I can’t believe he fought Morgan over it. And ticked off Tara too.

I always enjoy watching Rick and Darryl cause mayhem. Darryl seriously has had enough of Saviours, and I imagine he’ll have some words for Jesus. Thankfully Rick remembered baby Gracie because Judith is going to need a BFF. Aaron and Eric had a bad night but someone should have put Eric down. Where’s Carl when you need him?

King Ezekiel gives a fine speech but needs to work on his situational awareness. I need him, Carol, Diane, Shiva and that tall ginger to survive. I struggled through last season but I’m eager to see what happens next week. It’s not perfect, but I’ll take it.

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My hubby pointed  out something while watching last night. How come none of the rifles and handguns eject spent cartridges after firing? They must have some huge stash  of ammo to be firing off all those rounds. Plus, where is that  bottomless gas storage tank? They zoom around in cars and  trucks that use diesel fuel without batting an eye. Please writers, enlighten us.

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21 minutes ago, nitrofishblue said:

My hubby pointed  out something while watching last night. How come none of the rifles and handguns eject spent cartridges after firing? They must have some huge stash  of ammo to be firing off all those rounds. Plus, where is that  bottomless gas storage tank? They zoom around in cars and  trucks that use diesel fuel without batting an eye. Please writers, enlighten us.

I'm surprised Alexandria, Hilltop, & Kingdom have so much ammo to spread around. Last season they did't have much and don't know how much ammo Oceanside had that they had to force to give away.  Oceanside is playing it smart by not getting involved and revealing their location. 

I wanna see Michonne now with her katana and lopping heads off like she did with Woodbury people. She's missing all the action.

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Ye Gods, people talked and talked and talked on this episode without saying anything new or interesting (STFU, Morales, Jesus, Morgan). I miss when this show had people talking (and I don't mind an episode without action at all) and it was meaningful development for the characters and enlightening information for the audience.

I don't think Morgan is any more interesting than Jesus. I mean, he's stalking away quitting AGAIN? Jesus is being silly right now, but at least he's not just flouncing off. And I always love seeing Jesus's ninja skills! 

Also sick of Tara, who was a tertiary character, and now I'm supposed to care? (Also don't care about Eric.) Jesus is right about one thing -- this should not be about personal revenge. It should be, however, about getting the job done, and trying to keep prisoners of war is just beyond their means.

I love that Darryl is back and taking names! I'm in the minority, but I enjoy King E.'s BS and his teamwork with Carol. I'm sorry they got ambushed, but it was clearly inevitable. Just let the King, Carol, Jerry, and Shiva survive, and I'll be OK.

I knew Rick would rescue the baby.

Gregory is excellent as much-needed comic relief, though Maggie was a fool to let him in. Cal, whoever you are, you are awesome!

ETA: Oh I really miss Michonne too!

Edited by Catronia
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10 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

I'm all for turning the whole show into "characters start making pretentious or tedious speeches" and Darryl pops up and shoots them.  It doesn't have to make any narrative sense about where Darryl's supposed to be at any given time.  And it doesn't matter which side the boring speechifier is on.  Just anytime somebody, anybody starts with the "blah,blah,blah" Darryl pops up and shoots them.  That's the show I want to see these days.

Well, we all know who should be at the front of THAT line. 

OTOH, if Gracie is Negan's child as someone suggested, we'll know soon enough when she does a 3-minute monologue next week.

And I think it was Scott (Sonequa's IRL husband) comforting Aaron?

No one ever seems to notice Gabriel being missing. Ever. (We really do keep recycling plot points.)

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3 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I would feel far more guilty if the walker came back and made a snack out of one of the "good guys".

 

I didn't mind Aaron grieving, but hollering Eric's name when there was a horde of walkers in background was dangerous. Plus the way he was blubbering he didn't seem reconciled with putting Eric down. He looked like he would just hug him and get himself walkerized.

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The show did momentarily get my hopes up when Morales visibly reacted to news that his fearless leader had bludgeoned Glenn to death and "the widow" he's been hearing about is Glenn's wife, but he just kept talking and talking and talking until the arrow through the head and that was that.  Seriously, show?  We're eight seasons in and we're still circling the "you're a monster" "no, you're the monster" drain?  You guys are going through ammo shooting at each other like you're in Gulf War-circa Fallujah.  That ship has kind of sailed.

Yeah - this. I was really getting pissed off at what I think the show was trying to say with the false equivalence between Rick and Morales. No, they are not two sides of the same coin. Rick has done terrible things to survive but Negan is a sadistic psychopath who bashed Glenn's head in with a baseball bat just to bring Rick to heel. And that's the guy you're loyal to, Morales, so you can shut your pie hole right the fuck up.

The entire scene was pointless anyway because I knew Daryl was out there somewhere and would walk in any moment and end it.

I was also really torn on the big fight between Jesus and Morgan because I agree with Morgan 100% but didn't want him to kill Jesus. I just need for Jesus to come into the light! I mean . . . at least kill that one long-haired Savior who's such an ass and can't keep his mouth shut! I'm sure even the other saviors are like "Will you just shut up already and stop agitating them?" It would also show the other captured Saviors you mean business and if they step out of line you won't hesitate to put a bullet in their heads. 

It honestly took me until this episode to figure out what was going on in the previous episode with the courtyard stand-off and Rick and Daryl searching for the guns. The whole point of the attack was to draw everyone out of the building so Rick and Daryl could search for the guns. It sure would have helped if I'd gotten the gist of that last week.

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4 hours ago, Door said:

Cal made the episode for me. More Cal, please. And more people like Cal, actually! People who talk and react like recognizable human beings! That'd be great. 

I love Cal. I hope they have more of him. He is the most fun interesting new person since the Hilltop and Kingdom came along. Like you said, he actually speaks like a real person. Plus, he would keep an eye on our food. Ha. I bet he is reliable in a fight also.

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I also like the idea that Darryl suddenly shows up with a arrow to the brain every time a character starts speechifying.  Morales' 2 minute cameo appearance was just one of those "mildly interesting" scenes.    You've changed, Rick's changed, all of us have changed.  Yada yada THUPP!  So ends the Morales' legacy.

I'm sure Jesus' newfound philosophy to "not kill the surrendered Saviors" is to set up a "very special 90 minute episode" where the Savior POWs get the upper hand again.  Why has no one asked Jesus - "So, you expect Hilltop to feed, house, and confine 20+ or so sadistic, psychotic killers? Who's going to guard them?  Enid?  Who gets to clean up their poops? You, Jesus??"    POWs who surrender also should not taunt their captors.  Just sayin', Duck Dynasty extra!

That scene with Aaron and Eric left me feeling rather... meh.  Eric was never developed and had so few lines - he may as well been Alexandrian #5 .  I think Morales got more screen time than Eric did in the previous 2 seasons!  Hardly ever saw him interacting with Aaron except when they were introduced in the series and during Darryl's 'sketti eating scene.  Why couldn't Aaron put his hubby down?  It's not like he was a mile away.  Run the 200 yards, gently stab his head. Voila!  Goodnight, ginger prince.

It also bothers me that they are leaving guns and ammo behind.  There should at least be a 20 second throwaway scene of someone on weapon cleanup duty.  Hide them nearby in a bush for later retrieval or something.

Am I a terrible person because I didn't care if they left Gracie behind?

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4 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

Am I a terrible person because I didn't care if they left Gracie behind?

You're not terrible because I wouldn't have cared either. This type of show I'm not interested in seeing a child let alone a baby.  I understand some want children to build the future but do that when the world isn't full of psychos and your group isn't declaring war and all that.

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Cant Maggie at least lock Gregory up? He snuck out behind the Hilltop's back to see the enemy and then ultimately lets him weasel his way back in? He should be incarcerated so he can't do anymore harm and eat little girl's pancakes. Agreed with everybody that XB is playing this like a champ.

I'm rather enjoying pop up Daryl. I wish we could get a bit more of season one snark back in the mix.

Poor cuckoo Morgan. One day its kill nobody, next its kill everybody. When he said, "I aint right but I ain't wrong." I took it to mean he aint right in the head but he's not wrong for wanting to kill them? I dunno.

Guess nobody told King Ezekiel don't count your chickens til they hatch. *facepalm*

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14 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

Why couldn't Aaron put his hubby down?  It's not like he was a mile away.  Run the 200 yards, gently stab his head. Voila!  Goodnight, ginger prince.

Your whole post was hilarious but I loved this the most. Lol.

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21 minutes ago, HighMaintenance said:

Am I a terrible person because I didn't care if they left Gracie behind?

Yes you are.  Judith needs a playmate.

When is Maggie going to start looking pregnant?  Maybe she's carrying a hamster.

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I never make it past the first commercial break of Talking Dead but I still had stuff to do so I make it to the second. The highlight of the night had to be when Josh M. was telling that most fans that ask about Norman want him to tell Norman to shower. Hysterical because I always think he looks so dirty. I think it's the hair it's limp and always looks greasy. He needs to follow Jesus's example and brush his hair 100 times.

Jesus needs to disappear for awhile. Maybe come back with some balls. The ticker on his death just started right. Morally superior attitudes never end well on this show. Once you start thinking killing people is wrong it's only a matter of time before you die. 

Hey Rick when telling Morales all the people that died from Atlanta maybe not bring up the guy that you killed. Mention nice neutral names like Dale and T-Dog. But now Morales got into Rick's head which seems to be super easy to mind fuck. Now he will rethink all the killing. 

What are the odds that Zeke drops the stupid ren fair speech and starts talking like a normal person not that he is taking heavy fire. Have no fear Kingdom members you have Carol and she will have this shit taken care of long before Rick and Daryl show up. 

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I need a my two dads situation with Aaron and Daryl raising little Gracie. For that fact alone I'm glad they didn't leave her behind. There's my ride or die ship right there.

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7 minutes ago, notcreative enough said:

What are the odds that Zeke drops the stupid ren fair speech and starts talking like a normal person not that he is taking heavy fire. Have no fear Kingdom members you have Carol and she will have this shit taken care of long before Rick and Daryl show up. 

I kind of like the scenes with Carol where one minute he's Lionel Barrymore and the next he's Muthafukka Jones.

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Hi Morales! Bye Morales! Really, what was the point of Morales just randomly showing up like that? Was it meant as a jab at the audience? "Hey, remember that guy from the first season you thought got away from this mess with his family? Nope, they're all dead now! Thanks for watching." I know TWD likes to reinforce the fact their world sucks and will never get better for anyone ever, but I have never understood bringing a character from years ago back for the sole purpose of killing them off in front of the audience.

Ezekial, your little Renaissance Fair act is fun and all, but there is a big difference between taunting fate and kicking it in the balls and standing there laughing. If you somehow manage to win a series of battles with a superior force (in numbers, arms, or both in this case) without losing anyone you shouldn't stand out in the open and crow about it. Even Shiva was trying to tell you to move on already. Now it looks like the whole thing was a setup (yes, I can imagine the Saviors, or at least Negan, sacrificing a bunch of their own to lure the gang in). Which means you didn't so much win as they pretended to lose.

Speaking of Negan, not having him there to blather on made all the speeches more tolerable. As bad as it is seeing this from Morales and Gregory and Jesus and Morgan it is so much much worse from Negan.

I was a bit surprised that Rick was surprised when Daryl shot the guy. I figured Rick was the kind of guy who was very specific in his wording. "*I* won't kill you if you tell me what I want to know. Never said anything about the guy with the crossbow."

Edited by KirkB
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2 hours ago, Catronia said:

Ye Gods, people talked and talked and talked on this episode without saying anything new or interesting (STFU, Morales, Jesus, Morgan). I miss when this show had people talking (and I don't mind an episode without action at all) and it was meaningful development for the characters and enlightening information for the audience.

So agree. I'm one of the few people who loved Dale and his speechifying during Judge, Jury, and Executioner. It seems like Kirkman is now getting paid by word count or something. Lord. 

 

1 hour ago, Lady Iris said:

Poor cuckoo Morgan. One day its kill nobody, next its kill everybody. When he said, "I aint right but I ain't wrong." I took it to mean he aint right in the head but he's not wrong for wanting to kill them? I dunno.

He's not doing well. I noticed him repeating "everybody turns" a couple of times. Isn't that something he was saying/was written on the walls during his Clear days? 

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So, do we think they moved the guns the day before because Negan was tipped off by :

a) Gregory

b) Dwight

c) Eugene 

or are the Saviors just really lucky/smart strategists?

 

I really hope it wasn't Dwight. I am sick of him screwing over CDB and friends. 

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Yep.  Morgan was repeating "Everybody turns" over and over and painting it on the walls during the height of his Clear phase and when we saw him again in full-on crazy before he had his run-in with the cheesemaker.  I continue to think Clear was one of the strongest episodes the show has ever done, but that doesn't mean I particularly want to revisit that territory now.

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3 hours ago, Irishmaple said:

King Ezekiel gives a fine speech but needs to work on his situational awareness. I need him, Carol, Diane, Shiva and that tall ginger to survive. I struggled through last season but I’m eager to see what happens next week. It’s not perfect, but I’ll take it.

Don’t forget Jerry!!!

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Taking the surviving Saviors back to Hilltop defies logic.  This whole thing started because food supply was so low, that Rick's gang killed sleeping strangers in exchange for food.  So after bringing down the wrath of Negan upon Alexandria, now Negan's killers are going to be eating Alexandria's share of Hilltop's food.  In reality, this would probably lead to great tension between Maggie and Rick. 

So many horrible decision are made by our group, yet they always scramble to overthrow leaders they consistently call incompetent.  Ezekiel better stay in charge of the Kingdom.

Gregory needs to be kicked out of the mansion.  He should have to go live under a tree rather than torment a trailer roommate.  He also needs to be given the job of emptying the trailer shitters.

I can't help but think that baby Gracie went to Hilltop because the Saviors went there.  If they kill Gracie, I want Jesus to have to watch.  Poor Judith almost had a BFF, but Rick decided to hand her off to Hilltop.

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Total freaking word in the obsession with speechifying. This show has always had characters occasionally go into long winded rants (usually of the "Do we deserve to survive?" variety), but they also basically talked like normal people most of the time, or it was confined to a few characters. Now? Its like every damn person has become a 20 year old philosophy/English double major drunk on cheap vodka and pretension every second of the time. 

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Jesus needs to disappear for awhile. Maybe come back with some balls. The ticker on his death just started right. Morally superior attitudes never end well on this show. Once you start thinking killing people is wrong it's only a matter of time before you die.

Yeah - he's been around since Season 6 but Tom Payne is still not in the opening credits. That doesn't bode well for his longevity. It's too bad because I've liked him up until now but I really, really wanted Morgan and Tara to kill those Saviors. 

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2 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Cant Maggie at least lock Gregory up? He snuck out behind the Hilltop's back to see the enemy and then ultimately lets him weasel his way back in? He should be incarcerated so he can't do anymore harm and eat little girl's pancakes. Agreed with everybody that XB is playing this like a champ.

I'm rather enjoying pop up Daryl. I wish we could get a bit more of season one snark back in the mix.

Poor cuckoo Morgan. One day its kill nobody, next its kill everybody. When he said, "I aint right but I ain't wrong." I took it to mean he aint right in the head but he's not wrong for wanting to kill them? I dunno.

Guess nobody told King Ezekiel don't count your chickens til they hatch. *facepalm*

They need to keep their eye on Gregory.  He's probably going to spend a lot of time hiding under Gracie's crib while sucking on her purloined bottle. 

1 hour ago, Diane M said:

Yes you are.  Judith needs a playmate.

When is Maggie going to start looking pregnant?  Maybe she's carrying a hamster.

When they do a long-needed time jump.  It's only been weeks since her RV pregnancy-emergency run.  This time standing still really screws with how the audience perceives events.  This kind of thing happened on 24, but they time jumped between seasons.

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17 hours ago, mmecorday said:

I'm getting combat fatigue from watching the endless scenes of people shooting at each other. You can't even tell who's firing on whom anymore.

 

Given all that's going on the actual world these days, it seems in really poor taste to have scene after scene of people open firing on each other. In the world of the show, since there are so few people left, it seems like such a waste. Either way it's more depressing than entertaining.  I haven't been able to make it all the way through one episode of this season. I'm just reading the comments here to keep up until this endless, pointless battle is over.

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33 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Total freaking word in the obsession with speechifying. This show has always had characters occasionally go into long winded rants (usually of the "Do we deserve to survive?" variety), but they also basically talked like normal people most of the time, or it was confined to a few characters. Now? Its like every damn person has become a 20 year old philosophy/English double major drunk on cheap vodka and pretension every second of the time. 

Much as I loathe the speechifying, it does make a nice break in the incessant running around and shooting guns that is apparently the only thing that is going to happen on this show for the next 10 episodes.  Show us the plan, or it isn't even suspenseful.  The audience doesn't know what they are trying to do, other than kill Saviors in general.

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34 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah - he's been around since Season 6 but Tom Payne is still not in the opening credits. That doesn't bode well for his longevity. It's too bad because I've liked him up until now but I really, really wanted Morgan and Tara to kill those Saviors. 

Well, Ross Marquand and Seth Gilliam were only just added to the opening credits this year, and both have been on since season 5. 

But yeah, I was totally screaming at my TV for Morgan to go completely “Clear” on Jesus, if only for a moment. 

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Daryl ain't got no time or f*s to give about your mercy or POW shit.

And, ok, so I was wrong.  This episode was about Daryl adding to his kill count.

Love the thought, Morgan, but not really the best timing on trying to kick Jesus' ass.

Keep shtambling on, Eric Walker.  Nice knowing ya.

Maggie, do us all a favor, and put a cap in Gregory's noggin.

... and take all those Saviors 'out for a long walk'.

Up to the point Rick walked out with Gracie in his arms, I really thought we were going to be forever left wondering whatever happened to/with her.


Added into the category of people who need to stifle their endless speechifying, I say to thee, King Ezekiel;
giphy.gif&key=8db0c73f0725072360e2c84dbd

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36
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13 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

So, do we think they moved the guns the day before because Negan was tipped off by :

a) Gregory

Nah.  Remember: right up until about 90 seconds before Simon kicked Gregory’s ass off the loading dock, the Saviors thought of Greggyweggy as an ace up their sleeve.  Gweggy apparently had the Saviors snowed enough to believe his control over the Hilltoppers was as near-absolute as Negan’s grip on the Saviors - that the Gwegster’s simple announcement “The Hilltop stands with Negan” would be sufficient to induce any Hilltoppers with Rick to simply sling their rifles, holster their pistols, and walk away.

Well, it didn’t - and Simon was piiiiiiiissed...!!!  Enough so I suspect Simon had already had to give Negan more than one personally-guaranteed assurance of Glug’s veracity.  So Simon’s anger may be primarily born of fear for having to pay THAT particular butcher’s bill later.

In any case, I think the Saviors bought Gagory’s bullshit lock, stock and barrel - until they didn’t.  In which case they wouldn’t have bothered to move the heavy artillery, if they were sufficiently confident he would deliver.

 

13 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

b) Dwight

Point out on a limb here and saying - doubtful.  :)   Negan’s rampant paranoia is well-documented; witness what happened to the Saviors’ last doctor as evidence, and that on a single person’s word (Dwight’s, actually).  Even if Dwight considered the possibility of clucking out at the last minute and begging Negan for forgiveness, I think D would be smart enough to know Negan would be extraordinarily suspicious of any bonds Dwight might’ve formed with CDB - regardless of whether or not such bonds were later betrayed.  As soon as the Big Battle was over, Negan would start cleaning up loose ends - and Dwight couldn’t hope to escape the sweep of THAT broom.

IMHO all Dwight wants is to be free to search for his wife, and (hopefully) be reunited with her again.  That level of freedom will never be an option under Negan - so for better or worse, CDB is Dwight’s best bet.

 

13 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

c) Eugene 

I’d see this as more likely than Dwight, frankly - not in a “Let me prove you my worth by betraying my friends” way, but in a more intellectually abstract sense. I could EASILY see Eugene drawling to Negan something in the nature of...

“From a strategizing perspective, it might not be in your best interests to keep all your eggs in one basket - said proverbial eggs being your high-fire-rate automatic weapons, and the basket being the one room.  Better to spread them around the henhouse, so to speak, and maximize their potential effectiveness mortality-wise with overlapping fields of fire at your most critical points of defense.”

...couldn’t you?  ;)

 

13 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

or are the Saviors just really lucky/smart strategists?

...or simply paranoid as hell.  Frankly, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Negan moved them himself (with the help of Simon, and maybe one other) just to protect himself against potential betrayal by one of his lesser lieutenants.

...hmmm.  That, or the whole thing was an internal disinformation campaign from the start.  Think about it: Negan tells different lies to each lieutenant about the location of the .50-caliber cache, then waits to see where Rick shows up looking for them.  Easy way to keep the weapons safe AND pinpoint any leaks.

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I missed the guy flipping off Gregory. I can believe he ate a girl's pancakes, LOL. what a dick. It sounds like people were happy to be rid of him. 

I will take all of this over anything from Negan, although I do wish they'd just kill him. 

Pas I said in the spoiler thread, I can't believe Jesus is so worried about keeping people alive now. He's the one who arranged for their attack on that one building full of people last year. He didn't seem to care then. These guys are happily killing for Negan, and that one taunting guy was the one who killed the teenager, right? I guess they're saving him up for a grisly death. 

Rick's WTF face is funny. And I can't believe auto-correct just corrected his name to Prick.  I had to go back and edit. It usually doesn't like me swearing. 

Daryl is finally getting back to his normal self. Good. 

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18 minutes ago, Nashville said:

...hmmm.  That, or the whole thing was an internal disinformation campaign from the start.  Think about it: Negan tells different lies to each lieutenant about the location of the .50-caliber cache, then waits to see where Rick shows up looking for them.  Easy way to keep the weapons safe AND pinpoint any leaks.

That...is actually a really good point. Assuming Negan is smart enough to come up with such a plan. He certainly doesn't trust anyone but himself and it wouldn't be wise for him to just start randomly slaughtering his lieutenants on the chance one or more of them were working against him, so this whole thing as some kind of twisted loyalty test would not bode well for Dwight. On the other hand, Dwight was right there--before Rick and company apparently decided the Saviors windows were the real threat--so if he then knew Dwight had betrayed him I would have expected him to turn around and put a bullet in his hand followed by one of his 'catchy' one-liners. Admittedly the compound erupted into chaos shortly thereafter so he may not have had a chance.

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The scene between Rick and Morales, I felt like I was watching a different show.  It was the first scene I have probably seen on this show since season 3 that felt like real people dealing with a real apocalypse.  It was a nice escape from saviors and garbage pail kids and crazy guys with tigers and all the other comic book shtick they pile into this show.  And then Daryl shot him with an arrow and it was back to (un)reality.

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