S02.E06: The 20's

[Tikichick]

18 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Do the writers expect us to give a crap about Kevin? Because I certainly don't.

I feel bad for Kevin because he was always the overlooked kid growing up.  We saw it again this week, with Rebecca making darn sure she kept her ridiculous promise to Randall (a mother of 3 makes that promise without considering the wishes of the other 2?) and Jack making sure to be there in case Kate's feelings got crushed.  Kevin was allowed to take off with his friends.  We saw it in season one when Kevin almost drowned at the pool while Rebecca fretted over Randall and Jack worried about Kate's friends bullying her.  

For two parents so committed to parenting three kids, it seems most of the time they were playing man to man defense when a zone approach would have helped Kevin get some of the attention he so desperately craved -- and still does.

[Bean421]

I really struggle with the whole Kevin needs attention thing. We see that he was loved by his parents. Jack was supportive of his football playing. We haven't seen moments of just he and Rebecca, but she seems to love her children. To be honest, Kevin reminds me of my son who is 10. He needs SO much attention, he actively wishes he was an only child. The attention he does get is never enough. It's frustrating especially when he has a sibling with special needs. 

It's interesting that Kevin doesn't begrudge the attention Kate receives but Randall. You would think that as a 28 year old Kevin would let some of that resentment he has go but he clearly hasn't. Exhibited by the "We know he's had sex once comment."  Maybe we'll get a drug induced hallucination of what Kevin thinks his life should've been like.

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, Bean421 said:

I really struggle with the whole Kevin needs attention thing. We see that he was loved by his parents. Jack was supportive of his football playing. We haven't seen moments of just he and Rebecca, but she seems to love her children. To be honest, Kevin reminds me of my son who is 10. He needs SO much attention, he actively wishes he was an only child. The attention he does get is never enough. It's frustrating especially when he has a sibling with special needs. 

It's interesting that Kevin doesn't begrudge the attention Kate receives but Randall. You would think that as a 28 year old Kevin would let some of that resentment he has go but he clearly hasn't. Exhibited by the "We know he's had sex once comment."  Maybe we'll get a drug induced hallucination of what Kevin thinks his life should've been like.

Kevin is a human being and is entitled to have feelings, but he so struggles with the “it’s so terribly HARD being an extremely good looking cisgender heterosexual white man from a middle class family with two loving parents - no one understands my struggle” Syndrome. I think that is the POINT though, the one who on the “surface” has every reason to feel confident is very insecure. He’s also got entitlement problems, “in any other family I would’ve been the star!” (From season 1)....okay Kevin calm down. I think Kevin doesn’t begrudge Kate attention in the same way because she’s very nurturing towards her, there’s also a gender thing in play. 

[Tikichick]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

You reminded me of the epiphany I had last night.  Kevin's roommate was his new Randall.  He had met this guy, given him advice, and then the guy comes along and gets more attention than him, is better than him, when Kevin feels like he's the one who deserves all that.

Yep, it was like Kevin had all the pieces to get the jobs and never could, so much so that his knowledge could get "a Zeke" "a Kevin" part.  To me it seemed like that was a flag dangling in Kevin's face saying, it's you, you're the problem.  I think that's what pushed him onward, down that muddy slope.   

[PRgal]

4 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Kevin is a human being and is entitled to have feelings, but he so struggles with the “it’s so terribly HARD being an extremely good looking cisgender heterosexual white man from a middle class family with two loving parents - no one understands my struggle” Syndrome. I think that is the POINT though, the one who on the “surface” has every reason to feel confident is very insecure. He’s also got entitlement problems, “in any other family I would’ve been the star!” (From season 1)....okay Kevin calm down. I think Kevin doesn’t begrudge Kate attention in the same way because she’s very nurturing towards her, there’s also a gender thing in play. 

That's not fair.  His "struggle" - at least post-high school, probably has A LOT to do with his football injury.  Before that?  Sure, you COULD argue it.  But I don't think his parents WERE fair to him as a child/pre-injury teen - I don't think he got the same kind of love as Kate and Randall.  Though we don't know the "technical" order of the Big Three, Kevin is definitely playing the roll of "middle child."   

[Scarlett45]

Just now, PRgal said:

That's not fair.  His "struggle" - at least post-high school, probably has A LOT to do with his football injury.  Before that?  Sure, you COULD argue it.  But I don't think his parents WERE fair to him as a child/pre-injury teen - I don't think he got the same kind of love as Kate and Randall.  Though we don't know the "technical" order of the Big Three, Kevin is definitely playing the roll of "middle child."   

Right I’m agreeing with you. The writers are turning the trope on its head, by peaking back the layers of Kevin who on the surface seems like he is just “woe is me.”

[PRgal]

^^^ That should be ROLE, not ROLL.  

[biakbiak]

6 hours ago, MelGoLightly said:

This actually answered a question for me that I've had throughout the show. I have always thought it strange that Rebecca keeps referring to them as the twins and the three of them as the kids when talking to her mother, who keeps asking for pictures of 'just the twins'. What an odd thing to make them accept - that they had twins and just decided to take home an extra baby who was abandoned that day. 

I don't find it strange that they didn't tell them that there was a third baby that died, I know two people who learned they were actually twins but the other twin dud not survive only when they were adults. It's a lot for a kid to handle because it could have been them.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

48 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I feel bad for Kevin because he was always the overlooked kid growing up.  We saw it again this week, with Rebecca making darn sure she kept her ridiculous promise to Randall (a mother of 3 makes that promise without considering the wishes of the other 2?) and Jack making sure to be there in case Kate's feelings got crushed.  Kevin was allowed to take off with his friends.  We saw it in season one when Kevin almost drowned at the pool while Rebecca fretted over Randall and Jack worried about Kate's friends bullying her.  

For two parents so committed to parenting three kids, it seems most of the time they were playing man to man defense when a zone approach would have helped Kevin get some of the attention he so desperately craved -- and still does.

I completely agree.  Yes, Kevin was loved by his parents and they showed him that he was loved daily... they also showed him that he wasn't as loved as his brother and sister.  It is very clear that his mother will always side with Randall over Kevin.  We saw it when Randall was studying and Kevin wanted to sleep.  The obvious solution was for Randall to pick any other room in the house to study in so Kevin could sleep in his bed in his own bedroom.  But that wasn't the choice Rebecca made.  Randall and his wants came first.  As you pointed out, he almost drowned at the pool because Randall and Kate were more important to his mom and dad respectively.  And, while I can't think of an instance that Jack chose Kate over Kevin, he does constantly give Kate more attention than either boy. His parents don't beat him or abuse him verbally but it is clear that he is not their top priority and that will case deep and lasting emotional scars.  Ask any adult who has a sibling or siblings who were obviously the favorite in their household growing up.

[Aloeonatable]

2 hours ago, Georgia said:

@ElectricBoogaloo, I blacked out with rage at that point. Rebecca is a saint for not instantly losing it. It shows that he doesn't value what Rebecca does for the family. Hand-sewing costumes isn't a minor thing (not to mention that the house always seems spotless, everyone is always neatly groomed, they sit down to meals she cooks,etc.). 

Kid Randall is playing too young. It was weird to me that he wouldn't be able to figure out that Kyle died. 10-year-olds know the euphemisms for death. T

I was a stay-at-home mom for the first few years of our marriage. I always made our children's costumes, kept a neat house and cooked dinner every night. Not a hard thing to do, especially if the children were in school all day. Jack was a bit too much insisting that Rebecca make Kate's costume at that late date, but I don't see how that makes him unappreciative of Rebecca. 

[Paloma]

6 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

I bought Randall's oversharing to the employee, even if it was being all Magical POC. Sometimes people overshare to virtual strangers because they can't talk to anyone close to them and it just comes out.

(raising hand) Guilty as charged. I have done this more than once, especially at particularly stressful times. It could be a store clerk, a neighbor I normally only exchange casual greetings with, or people on social media (as some of you have noticed with my TMI comments). When my husband was hospitalized for a week and during that week the car broke down and there was water leaking in the basement, I found myself venting my worry and frustration to anyone who had the misfortune of saying "How are you?" So I could buy Randall's oversharing, though it was a bit much to have him vent to someone wearing a turban. But I did like Garuda's reaction and dialogue, even if it was a bit too perfect.

[J-Man]

Tess and Annie should be thankful they're not named Hunter and Douglas.

So Kevin Spacey references are out of bounds, but they're fine with Michael Jackson? OK, then.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, himela said:

I understand this is a sensitive matter but I didn't appreciate Rebecca saying to kid Randall that he was not "instead" of anything. That was a lie. Had Kyle not died, they would never have considered to adopt a baby.

What I also don't like with this story is, who decided to let this couple adopt this baby? I bet there were hundreds of couples waiting to adopt a baby and some judge decides to let a couple who just had twins and never even made an application to adopt a baby take this baby? Isn't it totally unfair and irresponsible?

In this world there is no court for such things.  The firefighter and Dr. K. got to choose his destiny.  

3 minutes ago, J-Man said:

Tess and Annie should be thankful they're not named Hunter and Douglas.

So Kevin Spacey references are out of bounds, but they're fine with Michael Jackson? OK, then.

Ha!  And no kidding.  

[debraran]

Does anyone think Jack dies on Halloween (when a lot of fires start)  The things that have been consistent are Chrissy saying the fans will hate me, at least for a while and the line from season one, "I asked him to go" We all thought, as they hoped, it was the car ride but that was too easy and fast. Later, we hear references that Jack favors her and never says No, short argument on Halloween about how easy he is (while Kate give in to Randall)

Kevin asks Kate if she was eating in her car watching where their house was, you know he wont walk out.  IT was like a ritual she always did.That stayed with me a long time, we've all wanted to turn back something, but that was so sad. "He's gone and even if you sit in that same spot that you were when he left, he's not coming back"

I know it can be a lot of things but I can't shake my gut feeling from the start, that Kate asked him to do something and he couldn't say No and he got hurt doing it. Dog seemed okay but maybe he went in house for something and inhaled too much smoke.

What an awful thing to carry around with. I just don't understand , was therapy just too hard or not something they would do?

Edited November 1, 2017 by debraran

[cryptaknight]

I'm a parent. I dress up for Halloween. I also went trick-or-treating last night with my 11 year old, a group of his friends, and assorted parents. We hung back at a respectable distance, though. I'm a couple of years older than the Pearson kids (39 to their 37); I do remember trick or treating without my parents after about age 12 or so, but parents accompanying 10 years olds seems reasonable to me. I grew up in the suburbs on the east coast, fwiw.

My parents both joined Facebook around the time my son was a toddler. He was born in 2006, so grandparents on Facebook in 2008 seems about right to me.

I think the theory that Miguel was hanging around for Rebecca and the kids to lean on after Jack's death - and that it wasn't exactly appreciated - is probably right. Then he moved to Texas, they fell out of touch, and then he and Rebecca reconnected in 2008. Sophie seems like she was practically an honorary Pearson; friends with Kate, and dating and marrying Kevin, she would have been around a lot and that probably accounts for her comfort with Miguel.

I liked the episode. It was nice to see Rebecca have a chance to shine in both timelines, and it was interesting to see where the kids were ten years ago.

[laurakaye]

12 minutes ago, J-Man said:

Tess and Annie should be thankful they're not named Hunter and Douglas.

This made me laugh so hard my tummy hurts. :)

[cryptaknight]

Oh, also? I liked the callback to Dr. K telling Rebecca to give Randall his own name, and Rebecca repeating that advice to Randall when Tess was born. I bet she was thinking of exactly that decision to let Randall be Randall instead of Kyle.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Bean421 said:

It's interesting that Kevin doesn't begrudge the attention Kate receives but Randall. You would think that as a 28 year old Kevin would let some of that resentment he has go but he clearly hasn't. Exhibited by the "We know he's had sex once comment."  Maybe we'll get a drug induced hallucination of what Kevin thinks his life should've been like.

I think it's two things that keeps him from begrudging the attention to Kate. One, that she's his twin and however much a pill he is in any era, he is sweet with her himself. And two, she's a girl - his real competition is with Randall - the other boy. Who requires a lot of attention.

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

That's not fair.  His "struggle" - at least post-high school, probably has A LOT to do with his football injury.  Before that?  Sure, you COULD argue it.  But I don't think his parents WERE fair to him as a child/pre-injury teen - I don't think he got the same kind of love as Kate and Randall.  Though we don't know the "technical" order of the Big Three, Kevin is definitely playing the roll of "middle child."   

I don't know that I agree that he didn't get the same love (in as much as any two children get the "same" love) it's that he didn't get the same kind of attention. No child is treated exactly alike (at least in my experience) because they are individuals and have individual needs. I do think Kevin got the short end of the stick attention wise, but I think he was loved as much as his siblings.

20 minutes ago, J-Man said:

So Kevin Spacey references are out of bounds, but they're fine with Michael Jackson? OK, then.

Spacey's reference was a throw-away line, so easy to fix.  But whatever we might think now about MJ, his costume made contextual sense for that time (since the allegations weren't public until the early 90's).

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

He was clearly the "middle" child inasmuch as each parent focused on another child, but he didn't get the short end of the stick all the time.  We just recently saw Jack pour attention on him when he had chicken pox, and we also saw a video of Jack over the top proud of his football star son.  I take pretty much of a dim view of him in his career; he doesn't know a good thing when he has it inasmuch as he bailed on his successful sitcom, then his Broadway play.  He's good at self-sabotage. 

Yeah, I think Kevin was a jerk, even as a kid he was a real piece of work.  They portray him as being nice to his sister, but, that's about it.  Did he have any male friends?  He doesn't really consider much, imo. Oh, except that time where he's staying with Randall and he SUDDENLY gets philosophical and and brings into show the nieces some art piece that he drew about life and family.  So bogus.  I still laugh when thinking about it. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[bichonblitz]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I think Kevin was a jerk, even as a kid he was a real piece of work.  They portray him as being nice to his sister, but, that's about it.

Totally Agree! What a narcissist he is. The only other time I saw him care about anybody was when he ran out on his play and cast mates to go console Randall when he was having his meltdown. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Oh right.  Another inconsistency with the script.  We are shown Kevin who is so out of it. His sister says that he's never dealt with dad's death.  He's running and is haunted by it.  He starts drinking too much taking pills. Partly from pain of the injury, but, also the angst from his father's death.  HOWEVER, he seemed very well adjusted and to have accepted the death and how that relates to the scheme of life, when he was visiting with Randall and he showed the nieces his artwork (painting THIS IS LIFE) and told them the story of how in the circle of life, no one ever dies, they just stay in the circle of life and are always with us. They always exist.  It was so poignant and philosophical.  But, NOW, less than a year later, it's like that never happened. Here's a link for it.

[Cardie]

3 hours ago, himela said:

I bet there were hundreds of couples waiting to adopt a baby

In 1980, placing a black baby wouldn't have been a piece of cake. Nevertheless, just letting the Pearsons waltz out of the hospital with him seems unlikely. Perhaps they initially asked to foster him.

[debraran]

30 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh right.  Another inconsistency with the script.  We are shown Kevin who is so out of it. His sister says that he's never dealt with dad's death.  He's running and is haunted by it.  He starts drinking too much taking pills. Partly from pain of the injury, but, also the angst from his father's death.  HOWEVER, he seemed very well adjusted and to have accepted the death and how that relates to the scheme of life, when he was visiting with Randall and he showed the nieces his artwork (painting THIS IS LIFE) and told them the story of how in the circle of life, no one ever dies, they just stay in the circle of life and are always with us. They always exist.  It was so poignant and philosophical.  But, NOW, less than a year later, it's like that never happened. Here's a link for it.

He seemed like he was doing okay with the death when he tried to get Kate to move on a little,  you can still have flashbacks, I feel things with my dad strong one day, others more muted and he's been dead over 10 years. But to crash as he's doing now, it's discouraging.

This clip makes me remember how great the scripts were last year.

[BlancheDevoreaux]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I think Kevin was a jerk, even as a kid he was a real piece of work.  They portray him as being nice to his sister, but, that's about it.  Did he have any male friends?  He doesn't really consider much, imo. Oh, except that time where he's staying with Randall and he SUDDENLY gets philosophical and and brings into show the nieces some art piece that he drew about life and family.  So bogus.  I still laugh when thinking about it. 

When they each had their own birthday parties, Kevin was the one week had the most kids at his. There have also been comments about how popular he was so u do think he had friends. 

[BoogieBurns]

1 hour ago, cryptaknight said:

Oh, also? I liked the callback to Dr. K telling Rebecca to give Randall his own name, and Rebecca repeating that advice to Randall when Tess was born. I bet she was thinking of exactly that decision to let Randall be Randall instead of Kyle.

That was young William who suggested him having his own name

 

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I understand this is a sensitive matter but I didn't appreciate Rebecca saying to kid Randall that he was not "instead" of anything. That was a lie. Had Kyle not died, they would never have considered to adopt a baby.

What I also don't like with this story is, who decided to let this couple adopt this baby? I bet there were hundreds of couples waiting to adopt a baby and some judge decides to let a couple who just had twins and never even made an application to adopt a baby take this baby? Isn't it totally unfair and irresponsible?

@himela, I think next week's episode is about adopting Randall.

[Jenniferbug]

I liked this episode in spite of some flaws.

I really want to see kid Kevin learn that he had a brother who died. I think it would be really interesting to examine, considering his rivalry with Randall. THAT brother wouldn't have made a trick or treat map, HE would have liked everything Kevin liked, etc...I can see a kid like Kevin who feels pushed aside really latch onto this mythical brother figure. 

I thought the whole point of showing Kate and Kevin (and to a lesser degree, with his meltdown, Randall) making mistakes and poor choices was exemplified in Rebecca's speech when she talks about it being easy to get lost in the middle of life and have to find your way again. They were at the beginning of their middle of life and making mistakes because they were lost and still figuring out adulthood and what that looks like for them. 28 might be a little late for that, but I knew plenty of people who got close to 30 and realized they weren't where they imagined they would be by that age. 

[GSMHvisitor]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh right.  Another inconsistency with the script.  We are shown Kevin who is so out of it. His sister says that he's never dealt with dad's death.  He's running and is haunted by it.  He starts drinking too much taking pills. Partly from pain of the injury, but, also the angst from his father's death.  HOWEVER, he seemed very well adjusted and to have accepted the death and how that relates to the scheme of life, when he was visiting with Randall and he showed the nieces his artwork (painting THIS IS LIFE) and told them the story of how in the circle of life, no one ever dies, they just stay in the circle of life and are always with us. They always exist.  It was so poignant and philosophical.  But, NOW, less than a year later, it's like that never happened. Here's a link for it.

 

I don't take that scene as contradicting Kevin's current struggles. I always took it - and of course that's pure speculation on my part - that what's haunting Kevin now is not so much the mere fact that his father is not there anymore, but that there's more to it, like they had a big fight right before and and maybe he said ugly things to his father and he can never undo that anymore or apologize for it and has to live with the fact that their last encounter ended badly. Like I said it's pure speculation, I have nothing to base this on, but Kevin's delayed strong reaction to Jack's death does seem a bit out of nowhere considering certain scenes from s1, so that's the theory I'm going with for now.

[Johnny Dollar]

Ok. So Kevin doesn’t treat Miguel like crap because Miguel is an awful person who moved in on his best friend’s wife after he died. Kevin treats Miguel like crap because Kevin has literally always been an asshole. 

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Kevin is a human being and is entitled to have feelings, but he so struggles with the “it’s so terribly HARD being an extremely good looking cisgender heterosexual white man from a middle class family with two loving parents - no one understands my struggle” Syndrome. I think that is the POINT though, the one who on the “surface” has every reason to feel confident is very insecure. He’s also got entitlement problems, “in any other family I would’ve been the star!” (From season 1)....okay Kevin calm down. I think Kevin doesn’t begrudge Kate attention in the same way because she’s very nurturing towards her, there’s also a gender thing in play. 

 

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, I think Kevin was a jerk, even as a kid he was a real piece of work.  They portray him as being nice to his sister, but, that's about it.  Did he have any male friends?  He doesn't really consider much, imo. Oh, except that time where he's staying with Randall and he SUDDENLY gets philosophical and and brings into show the nieces some art piece that he drew about life and family.  So bogus.  I still laugh when thinking about it. 

Kate is not competition.  It is not just because of her gender.  She clearly dotes on Kevin and lets him take center stage.  Heck, in the pilot, her whole life was Kevin, until she met Toby.    Kevin also loves Kate, but she is not a well behaved OCD braniac that makes him feel bad about himself.

I like the complexity of that Kevin did get the short end of the stick with his parents, but he still is a bit of an entitled ass.  Some part of him could not believe that a guy that looked like Zeke would have success before a guy who looked like himself.  However, unlike with Randall, he did the right thing.  Instead of throwing himself a pity party, he started to become serious about his craft and try to improve his talent.

I know this is unpopular, but I do not love Jack's relationship with Kate.  I was never a daddy's girl, in fact, my dad expected me to be tough and spoiled my brother.  The way Jack thinks Kate is his special princess that deserves to be worshiped, makes me think that Toby is very lucky to have never met him. 

[biakbiak]

Folks:

All opinions are welcome in all threads. If you have an opinion that you feel is unpopular but might not be episode or character specific feel free to post in the Unpopular Opinions thread. This isn't a fan site; both criticism and praise of the show are welcome and helps to create a more interesting conversation.

Thanks and carry on! 

[OtterMommy]

I sort of half-watched this episode while I did some stuff around the house...and I really don't feel like I missed anything.  I'm quickly losing steam with this show and, if there were more shows that interested me on Tuesday nights, this one would probably be the first to be dropped.

All I can say is that I would have found all this more touching if I weren't so damned irritated at that completely unrealistic birth scene.  I think they hit a melodrama high with that one...

[Guest]

I do still like the show quite a bit, which is why it irritates me.  I want it to be good.  

I know some births happen like that but I would for once like to see a birth like I experienced and my friends and family experienced.  My water broke on a Monday morning at 8am, I called my OB's office, the answering service said, "I guess come in at 10 when they open."  Which I did.  And I had my baby the next day.  It was the opposite of urgent.  

Kate looked awful with that hair and makeup, and older, not younger.  I don't think she's lost any weight.  I don't see that hot dude really being into her, even just for a one nighter.  Yeah, I know some guys are into her shape.  I don't think it's that common among hot married dudes, though.  I can buy Toby because he's a loser but c'mon.  

Rebecca's speeches were interminable.  I would've rather seen little Randall trick-or-treat five more minutes.  

I'm a little tired of precious adult Randall.  I think they could do a better job of portraying an anxious perfectionist.  His tendency to blabber on about himself and his issues doesn't ring true to me.  

I'm also sick to death of the 'dead parent/spouse I just can't get over' plots.  I know, a lot of people love it, but I guess I just cope with death fine and find it uninteresting and unrealistic compared to my own experiences and contacts.  I think I'd like the show more if they'd just kill Jack and let it go and find new themes.  

[OtterMommy]

Just now, Winston9-DT3 said:

I know some births happen like that but I would for once like to see a birth like I experienced and my friends and family experienced.  My water broke on a Monday morning at 8am, I called my OB's office, the answering service said, "I guess come in at 10 when they open."  Which I did.  And I had my baby the next day.  It was the opposite of urgent.  

Yes, some births happen like that, but not many...and especially not first babies.  And the fact that Beth went from not being in labor to the baby crowning in the time that Randall went to the hardware store is, well, even more ridiculous.  I get that they have to play things up for drama and births are pretty dramatic.  But I get so tired of seeing the same misconceptions on the screen over and over again--especially when so many people know that it is unrealistic.

[MoonMountain]

I haven't finished the episode yet, or reading this whole thread for that matter...and although I don't think it was written very fluidly, I totally buy Randall unloading on the hardware store guy. It's kind of as if Randall had gone into a bar and talked it out to the bartender (only big difference is bartenders expect that sort of thing, hardware store employee probably not so much). IDK, as a bartender and someone who has anxiety, I actually totally bought that scene, and I'm sure I've unloaded in a similar fashion to someone who wasn't expecting it, and when it may not have been totally appropriate. Not proud to admit that either, but Randall's anxiety issues in this episode are extremely similar to my own. So I see it.

Edited November 2, 2017 by MoonMountain

[debraran]

22 hours ago, sigmaforce86 said:

Best character of the night.....................Garuda.  Loved his line (not an exact quote I can't remember exactly)  "I almost had a baby named after me". his why are you telling me this when Randell went on his tangent, his remark about living in West Trenton; followed by giving Randell some advice after all.  And his face when Randell ran past him yelling It's Happening.  I  hope Randell came back to the store to thank him or show him Tess or something; I'd like to see him again.

That scene also showed Randell just has a history of  oversharing and telling just about anyone long personal stories, sort of explains why he had no filter when he made those two speeches to Deja.  Makes me wonder how he controlled himself at work and didn't pull that on co-workers or bosses because I imagine if he did that regularly he would have gotten a talking to from HR and maybe been fired long ago.

 

I hope so too, I can't imagine him not having to go back to a hardware store. It wasn't the same thing but when I was depressed once, a nice older gentleman in a bookstore asked me to help him pick out a book for his grandson and told me a funny story about a book artist, long story short, it made me feel so much better when I left, his compliment for my help, and I always held onto the book I picked out for my child later. A random encounter can help and a strangers advice or words.

Randall shared a little too much but Garuda's face was on target. ; )

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Yes, some births happen like that, but not many.a.and especially not first babies.  And the fact that Beth went from not being in labor to the baby crowning in the time that Randall went to the hardware store is, well, even more ridiculous.  I get that they have to play things up for drama and births are pretty dramatic.  But I get so tired of seeing the same misconceptions on the screen over and over again--especially when so many people know that it is unrealistic.

My family has quick births, my water didn't break but I went in at 9 and had my son at 1145 with water being broken at 10.  My sister was an hour first kid, but in mild labor at home for a while. It was fast and Rebecca wasn't complaining of anything prior which was odd. The baby was cleaner than some and no obvious mess with placenta and other issues, but I guess it's isn't "ER" so I'll let it pass. ; )  Now is Kate's is like that too...

Edited November 2, 2017 by debraran

[Arcadiasw]

21 hours ago, bybrandy said:

I'm not saying that is what happened with the Pearsons but I could see Jack's kids building up a resentment to Miguel trying to be in their lives as Jack's best friend that was completely independent of his relationship with Mandy Moore.  But hooking up with Mandy Moore years later would just reinforce resentments they had towards him trying to step in to their father's place.

I think that is the Pearson children issue. No one will be good enough for Rebecca other than Jack. They have a right to feel that way. Just as Rebecca has a right to move on with Miguel. 

20 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

 

It must be tough when there are three children and only two parents.Jack had his favorite and Rebecca hers, and poor Keven was nobody's favorite. I think that 20's Kevin must have been pretty desperate for an acting job after a year of no auditions to try to steal his roommate's job. But that was definitely a low point.  

This show does manage to hit all of the cliches..baby born at home, random wise man delivering wisdom, popular boy being bribed to hold hands with overweight girl, but they do manage to do it in an entertaining way so I am still a fan (get it?)

I thought Diner Guy was embarrassed to see Kate at the bar with his friends because of her weight...I was almost relieved that he was merely married. 

 

Kevin actions doesn't surprise me.  A lot of actors have done this. Actors who are trying to get their big break and others who already made it but want the role another actor is in lead of getting have done it. Applying to everyday life, coworkers have taken jobs from each other. So call friends and even family have stolen or tried to steal a man or lady from their own friends and family because they think they are the better partner. 

Diner Guy preyed on Rebecca because he saw her as an easy lay because of her weight and Rebecca willingly went along because of her own insecurities. That monologue would've been perfect payback for him.

14 hours ago, Violetgoblin6 said:

I think, if I can remember correctly, Beth helped Rebecca set up Facebook when she came to NJ for the birth. I remember since 2008, August, was when I got Facebook (no longer have it, Thank God!) And yes PR girl, I was born in 1974 and fun size candy was definitely bigger! In fact some of the candy we gave out were tiny squares (Snickers, Milkyways), but we always say they can have more than one piece of candy. 

A lot of stuff is smaller now. I know the Ritz crackers box is smaller and the Lays chips has fewer chips now than ten years 

[bichonblitz]

I can't even imagine the dramatic birth Kate is going to have. And Toby...please, writers, spare us from that. That is if the pregnancy gets that far. 

[BlancheDevoreaux]

9 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I sort of half-watched this episode while I did some stuff around the house...and I really don't feel like I missed anything.  I'm quickly losing steam with this show and, if there were more shows that interested me on Tuesday nights, this one would probably be the first to be dropped.

All I can say is that I would have found all this more touching if I weren't so damned irritated at that completely unrealistic birth scene.  I think they hit a melodrama high with that one...

My favorite thing about the birth scene was how clean that baby was as soon as she was born.  Guess I've been doing it all wrong having a baby in a hospital because she was covered in all kinds of nastiness when she was born.  Who knew that the secret to a clean baby was a home birth?

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

My favorite thing about the birth scene was how clean that baby was as soon as she was born.  Guess I've been doing it all wrong having a baby in a hospital because she was covered in all kinds of nastiness when she was born.  Who knew that the secret to a clean baby was a home birth?

It has nothing to do with the baby being born at home.  Tess would have been just as immaculate at the hospital.  Randall simply whispered to her to keep it tidy in there.  I mean, can you imagine if a child of Randall's dared enter the world all messy?  He would have spiraled out of control.

[SunnyBeBe]

12 hours ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

When they each had their own birthday parties, Kevin was the one week had the most kids at his. There have also been comments about how popular he was so u do think he had friends. 

Good point.  I wonder how that continued though.  We saw that he was friendly with his roommate in his 20's.  Then, in his current life, since he left the Manny, maybe, not so much with guy friends.  He's focused more on his romantic relationships. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[BlancheDevoreaux]

6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Good point.  I wonder how that continued though.  We saw that he was friendly with is roommate in his 20's.  Then, in his current life since he left the Manny, maybe, not so much.  He's focused more on his romantic relationships. 

To be fair, though, we haven't seen any of the big three with their friends.  Randall has his wife and kids, Kate has Toby, and Kevin has Sophie.  And, of course, we see them with each other.  It would be nice to see them with friends.

21 minutes ago, Katy M said:

It has nothing to do with the baby being born at home.  Tess would have been just as immaculate at the hospital.  Randall simply whispered to her to keep it tidy in there.  I mean, can you imagine if a child of Randall's dared enter the world all messy?  He would have spiraled out of control.

Good point. Good point.

[Clanstarling]

8 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Yes, some births happen like that, but not many...and especially not first babies.  And the fact that Beth went from not being in labor to the baby crowning in the time that Randall went to the hardware store is, well, even more ridiculous.

Hah! I always call my deliveries "Rodney Dangerfield" deliveries - because they don't "get no respect." My second was delivered 10 minutes after the doctor said I had hours to go and walked out of the delivery room. He was still pulling on his gloves when she was born.

4 hours ago, debraran said:

My family has quick births, my water didn't break but I went in at 9 and had my son at 1145 with water being broken at 10.  My sister was an hour first kid, but in mild labor at home for a while. It was fast and Rebecca wasn't complaining of anything prior which was odd. The baby was cleaner than some and no obvious mess with placenta and other issues, but I guess it's isn't "ER" so I'll let it pass. ; )  Now is Kate's is like that too...

I always knew my mother had quick labors, but I didn't think to ask her how long until I had my first with one hour labor. Turns out, 45 minutes was her typical labor. I didn't feel any contractions before my water broke. The only tell-tale sign was that I had more energy than I'd had in months.

Since my experience is often covered on TV, I do think it would be good for "normal" child birth to start being shown. It's not like there aren't ossibilities for drama during a regular labor (even without putting the mother and child in danger).

Edited November 2, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Since my experience is often covered on TV, I do think it would be good for "normal" child birth to start being shown. It's not like there aren't ossibilities for drama during a regular labor (even without putting the mother and child in danger).

I think they do have "normal" births on TV. You just remember the home, taxi, and elevator deliveries more.  They got a lot of drama out of Rachel just being in labor forever on Friends.  Jamie on Mad About You had a pretty normal delivery. Drama being made by choosing to go with no drugs until it was too late. 

[Guest]

I guess I pick the wrong shows.  The last deliveries I recall seeing were all insta-births:  this one, one on The Leftovers, one on a subway on The Mindy Project, one particularly ludicrous 'birthed it right into her pant leg' one on Grace & Frankie. 

Friends and Mad About You aired over 20 years ago.  Not that they're not good examples but is it that rare we have to go back to the 90s?  

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InstantBirthJustAddWater

I do give them credit for not going back to my worst pet peeve in tv birth's, one they did with Rebecca-- the 'acting irrationally angry at the dad for his whole part in this' trope.  

[ChromaKelly]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

It has nothing to do with the baby being born at home.  Tess would have been just as immaculate at the hospital.  Randall simply whispered to her to keep it tidy in there.  I mean, can you imagine if a child of Randall's dared enter the world all messy?  He would have spiraled out of control.

Nobody tell him about the mess that's all over the living room floor from the birth.

[Jodithgrace]

Not to mention that TV babies are born at six months old, and are often known to turn into toddlers overnight. 

[Katy M]

26 minutes ago, Jodithgrace said:

Not to mention that TV babies are born at six months old, and are often known to turn into toddlers overnight. 

I hate the superaging of children.  I don't really mind that they are born 6 months old, because that's like a baby labor thing.  But, come on.  Just let them age naturally.  It super annoyes me on soaps when they go from baby to 5 year old to teenager. 

[BlancheDevoreaux]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I hate the superaging of children.  I don't really mind that they are born 6 months old, because that's like a baby labor thing.  But, come on.  Just let them age naturally.  It super annoyes me on soaps when they go from baby to 5 year old to teenager. 

That's the worst because they don't age the parents and you end up with a kid that is 16 years younger than his mom but was born on her 10 year wedding anniversary.

[chitowngirl]

IIRC, Bernadette on The Big Bang Theory had a drama free birth. 

[smartymarty]

Quote

I thought maybe it wasn't a dress but a nightgown. Beth knew she wasn't going out and it was probably very comfortable for her.  

She wouldn't wear a nightgown to hand out candy on Halloween.

Jack really annoys me in relation to child Kate. He's so over the top. As Rebecca pointed out, he's not preparing her for life that way. And bad parenting for him to let Kate change her costume after her mother spent time making something else. I wished we'd seen Kate in the original costume after being told that it was rude to change. She's old enough to be held to her word.