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S02.E05: Suckers

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Kirkman tries to win back the people's trust after a senator misrepresents a private conversation. MI-6 agent Damian Rennett joins FBI agent Hannah Wells to solve an international murder

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“it’s like Uber with handcuffs.” 

That line was actually funny.

So isn’t the white house council defending the First Ladies’ Mom a huge conflict of interest?

Shut up, Alex.

Kiefer plays hockey. Now you know.

I need some wine to go with the massive amounts of cheese this show produces.

I am declaring Selina Meyer the VEEP until we learn otherwise.

For the record, I still like this show even though I acknowledge how not great it is. Life is too short to hate watch.

Edited by marinw
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I didn't like the First Lady before but now I almost cannot stand to watch when she/the actress are in a scene.  Her arrogance is out of control and her hair is absurd!

Edited by MerBearHou
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3 hours ago, marinw said:

 

So isn’t the white house council defending the First Ladies’ Mom a huge conflict of interest?

Kind of galactic proportions....

Edited by janeta
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The First Lady's mom should be handled normally - with no conflict of interest.

President Kirkman/Kiefer plays hockey!

And he is exceeding the number of lives a cat has.  A few of the neighbourhood strays may want to have a few meows with him. His TV speech was filled with grand fromage. But he still sold it!

I liked the Uber, with handcuffs, line.

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letter-f.jpg

face-with-open-mouth-vomiting_1f92e.png

Man, I got a toothache watching that. Is this a political drama or As The White House Turns?

On second thought...I shouldn't drag a reputable show like As The World Turns into this. That show was on for 54 years...they had to know what they were doing.

These guys clearly...don't.

I could go into huge long spiels about how frankly dull it is for Tom Kirkman to have some kind of big speech or pull the right answer from out of his derriere (see! I use French because Tom Kirkman is played by a Canadian! I'm just as clever as this show thinks it is!).

I could also go into long spiels about how sophomoric the writing is and how terrible the plotting and the direction is.

Oh, and don't get me started on "Suckergate". Seriously? That's a spiralling scandal? That sounds like something you issue an apology for and then get on with it- because that's just usually the end of it.

If the show really wanted to have a "foot in mouth" moment for Kirkman, why not have him slip out something that's really socially insensitive that Kirkman doesn't understand is insensitive...because that stuff sticks.

OK, so it's still schmaltzy...but at least it's a more plausible scenario than what we got tonight.

Oh, and why does Kirkman always seem to find some kind of leverage against anyone who opposes him, allowing him to always look like the noble one and his adversary look like a complete putz?

(Don't answer that...it's rhetorical)

Finally...I actually enjoyed Hannah's scenes. She seems to appear on a much better show that I'm not getting to witness. That said...I hate to rag on people's looks, but I wasn't feeling Maggie Q in that lacy top at the end. She looked very gaunt. Not to say that Maggie Q can't be sexy- I'm sure she can- just that the show needs to pick something different, that's all.

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Kendra reminds me of Law & Order where only one lawyer handles every case.  I mean, really????  

I know the President/Keifer wants to seem like the Arbiter of Sincerity and Righteousness but he creeps me out when he smiles.

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I thought this was the best episode of the season to date 

suckergate did seem like something that could have been handled with a quick apalogy, not sure it was really the big deal they made it out to be but oh well 

Hannahs scenes were excellent as always. Props to you Maggie Q for being a fantastic actor no matter what your doing 

 can alex go away already? Glad someone put Forstyl in his place 

liked it overal and already can’t wait for next weeks episode

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1 hour ago, MerBearHou said:

Kendra reminds me of Law & Order where only one lawyer handles every case.  I mean, really????  

When the judge said, "Fruit of the poisonous tree?" I momentarily thought my wish had come true that this was a Battlestar Gallactica-level apocalypse show, and that the judge had formerly been a hairdresser, and that she was going to next explain,"I used to watch a lot of Law & Order."

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This was a stinker of an episode.

Kirkman has been on the job for over a year now and still gets shocked, shocked! I tell you, that politicians from an opposing party may use his words against him for their own political gain? How is he still this brand new about how politics and DC works?

I feel like a White House counsel happily working to quash a subpoena for a non-federally employed member of the First Family for a non-White House related legal matter during working hours and using federal government resources is probably a disbarrable and fireable offense. Or would at least invite about 1000 hours before a congressional committee about the conflict of interest and diversion of tax payer dollars to kill an investigation of a POTUS family member.

And FLOTUS second chairing a hearing to quash a subpoena issued to her mother by an executive branch agency in an effort to kill an ongoing criminal investigation? Seriously? Again, inviting about another 1000 hours before a congressional committee on that one. Everyone took stupid pills this episode.

Edited by shafted
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I think I'm sort of just watching this show out of...pity? Hate-watching? I don't know - but it's really not so good this time around. The whole shock of the bombing and the deaths of the prior President and so many others is now gone, the mystery of who did it has been solved, so now this is just a poor man's 'West Wing.'

At the end, when the President was talking with that Victim's Advocate woman, it bothered me that he said he was just "lucky" to have become President and to have survived. No, Mr. President - you weren't lucky at all. You were deliberately and specifically chosen to be the survivor for a reason, and while that reason was nefarious and ultimately never panned out, it was not simply dumb luck that you landed in the Oval Office. You may feel survivor's guilt, but you have to acknowledge that you were hand picked to be the designated survivor as part of a larger plot.

I can't believe the First Lady insisted on being second chair. My goodness, she's an idiot, isn't she.

I like the character of Hannah and of course knew several episodes ago that she'd eventually connect with the British guy. Good for her - guess she's ready to move on from the death of whoever it was who was killed when the Capitol was destroyed. 

Edited by Biggie B
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Honestly, considering the current political climate (or heck, the one for the past eight or so years) or at least how the media does things, I could totally buy "Suckergate" being a thing.  Not sure I fully buy everyone around Kirkman automatically jumping ship, but I totally predict the media would be losing their minds and calling him things like "elitist" and whatnot.  Of course, the resolution was hokey as always to the point that not only does Kirkman overcome it by being honest, he even gets the Senator (oh, Christopher Cousins, you are always playing someone kind of shady!) to tearfully confess that he was having an affair and that's why he was trying so hard to "get a win."  And, naturally, Kirkman knew all about it thanks to Lyor's special folder, but thankfully for the Senator, Kirkman is just too damn noble to use it against him.  Ah, classic Designated Survivor!

I won't even touch on how Alex suddenly became massively stupid all of a sudden.  Kendra telling her off was easily the best thing she's done so far.

I am finding myself back to enjoying the Aaron/Seth/Emily/Lyor interactions.  Sometimes I almost wish the entire episodes would be just devoted to them trying to put out fires.

So, Hannah's new mission over this dead diplomat first leads her to an arms deal played by Vex from Lost Girl, but they now think it is likely his wife played by Michelle Holden, who was President Spencer on Nikita, so that kind of delights me (keep bringing those Nikita actors, show!)

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I missed the beginning of the episode.  Did they show the "suckers" conversation so viewers could see it in context?

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31 minutes ago, Driad said:

Did they show the "suckers" conversation so viewers could see it in context?

It was literally “Locker room talk” as Kirkman was talking to the Senator after a playing hockey.

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Kirkman calls the American people suckers because they believe in the American dream. But if they’re suckers, then so is he because he believes in America too.

I don't know what to believe anymore on this show  :P

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I'm not hate watching yet, but I'm bordering on dislike watching. This show is becoming so dull and schmatzy. 

 

21 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I didn't like the First Lady before but now I almost cannot stand to watch when she/the actress are in a scene.  Her arrogance is out of control and her hair is absurd!

Ha! Her hair bugs me too. So does her voice. I guess it's her "American accent"? It might sound lovely with her native accent. 

I feel bad hating on her because I read an article about how the actress - in real life - became a widow when she was 6 months pregnant with her 3rd child. But ugh, I'm just not a fan of her at all. 

Why did they think adding this lawyer character was a good idea? She's dull as dirt. 

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I am rather hoping that the Senator was playing a long con on the President, and got him to reveal that the White House was possibly planning to blackmail him to sway his vote.  He could then go public with his own confession, turn around and stick it to Kirkman and Company.

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1 hour ago, Duke2801 said:

Why did they think adding this lawyer character was a good idea? She's dull as dirt

I'm okay with the lawyer and the way she wrangled the FLOTUS back from Crazy Pants Land. But Lyor? I get that they wanted a comic relief character—and I'm a great believer in comic relief—but not only is Lyor's role redundant to Seth's, but the POTUS is supposed to be a Man of the People at this point, who has the public and the media eating out of his hand. He doesn't need Lyor. Maybe they can get Lyor laid off on account of uselessness, and then discover he is a gourmet chef who can conjure up at a moment's notice local cuisine for any visiting politician or dignitary.

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[Interior: Oval Office]

President Bauer: [Standing over the beaten & bloody Senator] You are still alive because I need you to vote tomorrow...Cross me again and I will put your head next to that model car... [grabs Senator by the hair, points to bookshelf]

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President Bauer: [Standing over the beaten & bloody Senator] You are still alive because I need you to vote tomorrow...Cross me again and I will put your head next to that model car... [grabs Senator by the hair, points to bookshelf]

President Bauer: [to staff person] I'm gonna need a hacksaw.

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It seems like there's 2 different shows here - the presidential Kirkman show and the FBI Agent Wells investigation show and neither has enough substance to stand on their own.

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I prefer the FBI show. 

The President Kirkland show is boring. it's too simplistic.

 The show does a good job of copying the West Wing walk & talk down a hallway.

I am looking forward to Block of Cheese episode.

 The First Lady should lose her law license.

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I've given up and deleted this show from my DVR recording list. 

Stuffing two inferior versions of shows I've already seen into one show and then making most of the characters magical idiots was bad enough. Now it's incredibly dull too. I'm out.

(It doesn't help that my kids and I have begun Netflixing West Wing as an antidote to the daily news cycle. The difference is ...  stark.)

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On 10/26/2017 at 5:30 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Honestly, considering the current political climate (or heck, the one for the past eight or so years) or at least how the media does things, I could totally buy "Suckergate" being a thing. 

This was exactly why I *couldn't* believe "Suckergate" was such a big deal. The promos made it sound like Kirkman said something far worse.

If this sort of thing happened IRL, everyone would just shrug their shoulders and move on. It really just doesn't sound like that big of a deal.

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On 10/27/2017 at 6:35 AM, paigow said:

[Interior: Oval Office]

President Bauer: [Standing over the beaten & bloody Senator] You are still alive because I need you to vote tomorrow...Cross me again and I will put your head next to that model car... [grabs Senator by the hair, points to bookshelf]

President Bauer: (on telephone).  "Chloe, get me a cross reference between all the hockey fans who voted for the Senator and everyone who supports the insurance bill.  Now."

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Kirkman was incredibly stupid with the Victims' Rights woman.  From the outset, he should have told her "I'm trying my best to get it passed -- you need to talk to Senator Rouce."  Instead he just kicks the can and makes her think he's playing her for a sucker.

On 10/25/2017 at 5:03 PM, marinw said:

So isn’t the white house council defending the First Ladies’ Mom a huge conflict of interest?

As others have said -- well, duh.

On 10/25/2017 at 8:28 PM, Danielg342 said:

If the show really wanted to have a "foot in mouth" moment for Kirkman, why not have him slip out something that's really socially insensitive that Kirkman doesn't understand is insensitive...because that stuff sticks.

Or something non-offensive that people take offense to (like the politician who used "niggardly" in a speech a while back).

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Why has no one actually talked to the adult woman who took the bribe?

Why do they keep talking to her daughter who at the time of the crime was 11 years old and unaware of most of the events, which the adult grown up who was fully grown at the time, proudly admits to ?

What kind of ageist and sexist crap is it that a fully grown and responsible woman of 70 , who dresses impeccably, and lives independently, and earned her own living for many years, is considered too weak and fragile to speak to an FBI agent or her SIL's lawyer?

Shouldn't the police talk to the suspect and not the suspect's daughter?

Shouldn't the suspect's lawyer talk to the suspect and not the suspect's daughter?

Also.

I don't mind the lawyer but she and the Chief of Staff look like identical twins.

One of the advantages of diversity in casting is that it makes it easier to tell the characters apart.

Same with Britishspyguy and Nastygunrunner. I was confused about who got shot because they were both tall, dark haired white guys. If it comes to that, I'd probably have trouble telling either of them from Aaron. I have to name him because I've lost track of what he does now.

 

And I hate the First Lady's Hollywood hair. I know lawyers and those who don't have short hair (like the identical twins) wear their hair up during work hours.

Maybe the gunrunner's wife will kidnap the FL and we will never see her again. Kirkman gets a huge surge of sympathy just in time for the election and brings the retired president, also a widower, back as his VP.  Leo gets sent to Switzerland for his senior high school year where he makes friends with the sons of dictators and the daughters of kinglets and we never see him again either. MIL moves into White House permanently to over see raising of little Peaseblossom.

 

I like MIL. She can see answers to problems, weigh them against difficulties, make a decision, act on it and shut up.

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5 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

Why has no one actually talked to the adult woman who took the bribe?

Why do they keep talking to her daughter who at the time of the crime was 11 years old and unaware of most of the events, which the adult grown up who was fully grown at the time, proudly admits to ?

I thought that talking to FLOTUS was a courtesy, although it was huge crime on the part of both Hannah (talking about an active case with a relative of a suspect) and the lawyer.

5 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

One of the advantages of diversity in casting is that it makes it easier to tell the characters apart.

I had that problem with The Prestige, where telling the two main characters apart is critical, but they both looked and sounded alike.  Jeez, give one at least a different hair color if you're too racist to add a Magician of Color to your cast.

Edited by jhlipton
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One of the advantages of diversity in casting is that it makes it easier to tell the characters apart.

Amen!  It would also help if characters addressed each other more often by name or at least position.  One advantage of closed captioning is that it sometimes provides a character's name even if it isn't in the dialogue.

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The whole thing about Charlotte Thorne, MP (the murder victim) made no sense. She was referred to as an MP, not a minister or Secretary of anything, so how would she be making a speech at the G20?  (And even if she did have a government post, and did get to make a speech, surely it would have to be approved by the UK government anyway, not on her own personal agenda.)  And shouldn't Kirkman have been busy glad-handing foreign leaders if the G20 was on, instead of focusing on that pension issue?   I suppose it could have been the G20 Finance Ministers or Foreign Ministers meeting, but again, she would still have to hold a government post, and I don't think the anti-arms dealers speech would quite fit either of those.  Or was she planning to make the speech at a fringe event, in which case, would anyone really be that bothered?  And if she was just a back-bench MP, she would have a long way to go to be talked of seriously as a future PM.  Also, there would have been massive security around the G20.

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Or was she planning to make the speech at a fringe event, in which case, would anyone really be that bothered? 

Wellllll - George Galloway MP got barred from Canada a few years back. https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/how-george-galloway-was-barred-from-canada-in-less-than-2-hours/article4096622/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

And if she was just a back-bench MP, she would have a long way to go to be talked of seriously as a future PM. 

The Canadian NDP just elected a leader Jagmeet Singh Leader of the federal wing of the party, although he is a member of provincial, not federal, parliament. One of his opponents is his representaive in the House of Commons, until he wins a federal seat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagmeet_Singh

Canadians must be party members to vote in leadership races, and the barriers are pretty low to enter. Voting is both more and less open than in the USA.

Admittedly, Justin Trudeau had a family name, and had been an MP for seven years before becoming PM.

Remember in Parliamentary systems, the Prime Minister is the party leader, but is only elected in their own riding, not nationally.

Still, the last two US presidents did appear almost out of the blue.

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The moment I saw this episode description, I thought "Couldn't we have described at least one-quarter of all the episodes aired thus far, with the tagline "Kirkman has to win back the trust of the American people"?  

I feel almost positive that the White House counsel can't up and represent members of the President's extended family in court for any reason, and I'm shocked they'd discuss it so casually as a fait accompli, without at the very least having some plausibly ignorant outsider present to act as the audience's mouthpiece (I can see how it would be odd to have Alex, a lawyer, ask "Isn't that a clear conflict of interest?", but I'm damned well sure someone should have).

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I know I'm on the way out of watching a show when I don't care about missing dialogue. I have to watch with the sound low because we live in a tiny apartment and the kids are asleep. I used to rewind to catch what I missed. Now I just figure it out from context. Not hard with this show. And it doesn't have golden little nuggets like Veep or The West Wing worth going back for. But yes, I can't stand FLOTUS, or her hair. Kirkman is just to damn noble all the time. I believe suckergate could be a thing (remember "deplorables"?), but I don't think Kirkman's coming clean would have tidied it up so nicely. And, boy, is his chief of staff in love with him or what! The way she got all googly-eyed watching him "shut down" suckergate made me wonder if there's going to be a spark somewhere. But again, Kirkman is just too damn noble. I cannot stand Lyor. He doesn't add a thing to the show, and his (or the actor's) smug aren't-I-clever bons mots are grating and not so clever. As for the FBI show, I never know what the hell is going on there and now that Hannah has generic handsome boyfriend/agent, I'm even more bored. I do wish they'd pick up some of the threads that started this show - you know, the Capitol blowing up and all that.

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7 hours ago, mookster said:

I know I'm on the way out of watching a show when I don't care about missing dialogue. I have to watch with the sound low because we live in a tiny apartment and the kids are asleep. I used to rewind to catch what I missed. Now I just figure it out from context. Not hard with this show. And it doesn't have golden little nuggets like Veep or The West Wing worth going back for. But yes, I can't stand FLOTUS, or her hair. Kirkman is just to damn noble all the time. I believe suckergate could be a thing (remember "deplorables"?), but I don't think Kirkman's coming clean would have tidied it up so nicely. And, boy, is his chief of staff in love with him or what! The way she got all googly-eyed watching him "shut down" suckergate made me wonder if there's going to be a spark somewhere. But again, Kirkman is just too damn noble. I cannot stand Lyor. He doesn't add a thing to the show, and his (or the actor's) smug aren't-I-clever bons mots are grating and not so clever. As for the FBI show, I never know what the hell is going on there and now that Hannah has generic handsome boyfriend/agent, I'm even more bored. I do wish they'd pick up some of the threads that started this show - you know, the Capitol blowing up and all that.

Ha, now I was thinking now that I've finished the episode, that I thought Kirkman was making the same eyes at the pension-plan-draining anti--lobbyist woman, as he did the female scientist/doctor a few weeks ago that everyone thought might be his post-Alex love affair.  Maybe that was someone's idea to pep the show and Kirkman up. "Act like you're flirting and in love with with every woman you see, but not too much!" The climactic scene between he and his legislator turncoat friend was a particularly direly-written cliche-fest.  (And yes,  Alex looks ridiculous with waist-length artfully tousled Ariel locks arranged perfectly on her lapels mid-hallway-stop. 6-8 inches of that mane should go.  She was a lawyer and she wears tailored preppy/business wear all the time.  She doesn't need Cinderella hair.)  

Edited by queenanne
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Not to pooh-pooh cast diversity, but it does speak to the quality of the acting if you can't tell any of the characters apart. I'm sure if the cast was Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Samuel L. Jackson and Chris Rock you'd have no problem telling any of them apart.

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On 10/26/2017 at 8:38 PM, Duke2801 said:

Her hair bugs me too. So does her voice. I guess it's her "American accent"? It might sound lovely with her native accent.

Yes!  This bugs me so much.  Not everyone can do accents, and this actress can not (at least not an "American" accent).  It's horrible.  The hair is ridiculous and dated (sorry to be shallow).  I didn't know the actress became a widow while pregnant, that is incredibly sad.  However, unfortunately this part is just not working for me.  The best part of the episode was when the lawyer told her off.

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On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 5:12 AM, femmefan1946 said:

 

I don't mind the lawyer but she and the Chief of Staff look like identical twins.

One of the advantages of diversity in casting is that it makes it easier to tell the characters apart.

 

Agree 100%. I actually don't mind Kendra because unlike Lyor she hasen't invaded on the original cast, but I wonder why they didn't get someone who looked a little different from Emily

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On October 30, 2017 at 3:12 AM, femmefan1946 said:

Why has no one actually talked to the adult woman who took the bribe?

Why do they keep talking to her daughter who at the time of the crime was 11 years old and unaware of most of the events, which the adult grown up who was fully grown at the time, proudly admits to ?

What kind of ageist and sexist crap is it that a fully grown and responsible woman of 70 , who dresses impeccably, and lives independently, and earned her own living for many years, is considered too weak and fragile to speak to an FBI agent or her SIL's lawyer?

Shouldn't the police talk to the suspect and not the suspect's daughter?

Shouldn't the suspect's lawyer talk to the suspect and not the suspect's daughter?

Also.

I don't mind the lawyer but she and the Chief of Staff look like identical twins.

One of the advantages of diversity in casting is that it makes it easier to tell the characters apart.

Same with Britishspyguy and Nastygunrunner. I was confused about who got shot because they were both tall, dark haired white guys. If it comes to that, I'd probably have trouble telling either of them from Aaron. I have to name him because I've lost track of what he does now.

 

And I hate the First Lady's Hollywood hair. I know lawyers and those who don't have short hair (like the identical twins) wear their hair up during work hours.

Maybe the gunrunner's wife will kidnap the FL and we will never see her again. Kirkman gets a huge surge of sympathy just in time for the election and brings the retired president, also a widower, back as his VP.  Leo gets sent to Switzerland for his senior high school year where he makes friends with the sons of dictators and the daughters of kinglets and we never see him again either. MIL moves into White House permanently to over see raising of little Peaseblossom.

 

I like MIL. She can see answers to problems, weigh them against difficulties, make a decision, act on it and shut up.

What? who is the gun runner? And no they don't look like identical twins and since when do lawyers wear their hair up? They wear their hair any which way they like. 

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On November 9, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Addie1917 said:

Agree 100%. I actually don't mind Kendra because unlike Lyor she hasen't invaded on the original cast, but I wonder why they didn't get someone who looked a little different from Emily

They look like different ethnicities and different age cohorts to me.

Edited by shapeshifter

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