S03.E03: Josh Is a Liar

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

After encountering a major setback in her plan to get even with Josh, a panicked Rebecca starts a smear campaign to discredit Josh before he can turn everyone against her.

Promo:

 

Edited October 21, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Spartan Girl]

As usual, Rebecca is her own worst enemy.

So yeah, everyone knows about Robert, and that's bad. But would it be remiss to point out that Robert wasn't exactly an innocent victim. He was a married Harvard professor that seduced Rebecca; he had no business taking advantage of a student. Just sayin'...

[Rinaldo]

Kudos to whoever called that Trent's envelope would make a re-appearance. Well done.

The plot is certainly moving along now, just as Aline Brosh McKenna tested last month (that this would be, I think her term was their "most propulsive" season).

I admire the creator/producers' foresight. It sometimes seems as if the events are almost being improvised from week to week, and then there will turn out to be an underlying strong structure going back a year or more. Like the way Nathaniel has appeared and changed so that at the right moment he's the one who can take Rebecca away from all this. (Except it looks like he won't.)

The same way they have "Oh My God I Think I Like You" all ready at the moment when he needs to utter that sentiment. (I swear, I was thinking he ought to reprise that song 30 seconds before he uttered the words. I yelped in my living room.)

I assume that "I Go to the Zoo" is a parody of a particular music video that I would recognize if I were more knowledgeable?

[srpturtle80]

I don’t find Nathaniel unattractive but he never really did it for me. Until I saw him in that black shirt and leather jacket during his zoo song. Damn. 

[ddawn23]

So they set aside, what, like $10 in the production budget for the Zoo song? I mean I liked it, but it won’t have much rewatch-on-YouTube mileage for me because I found the production values so distractingly low. 

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

As usual, Rebecca is her own worst enemy.

And Josh's worst enemy.  And Paula's worst enemy.  And anyone who stands in her way's worst enemy.

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

But would it be remiss to point out that Robert wasn't exactly an innocent victim. He was a married Harvard professor that seduced Rebecca; he had no business taking advantage of a student. Just sayin'...

He deserved to be fired for being with Rebecca but her reaction was all on her.  And I definitely don't think Robert's part in it is relevant to her situation now.  She was afraid Josh would out her confession so she had to discredit him.  It's funny because in last week's episode she stopped short of hurting his family yet in this episode she went straight for his friendships.  Robert was important because the truth of what happened then shifted the credibility back in Josh's favor.  It doesn't matter if Robert hurting her was the impetus for some of her actions.  The point is only that she's capable of doing everything Josh said she did.

Now I do have to quibble about how quickly Josh's friends were willing to believe the blog post and that it didn't occur to any of them that Rebecca could have possibly made all this up for revenge.  That didn't even occur to Paula!  And it was rather convenient that when Josh came back to share all that Rebecca had confessed to that Paula wasn't there.  Because she would have known that a lot of what he said was true.  It's the one contingency that I wish Rebecca would have had to deal with but instead, they just kept Paula away from the accusations until she was invited to the Robert sit down. 

And this was one time it was good Greg wasn't around because he would've sussed out Rebecca's plan right away.  I miss Greg. 

The past two weeks have had great songs.  This week?  I didn't love either one.

[Corgi-ears]

Urgh, I hated that terribly written episode, where they

1. made everyone (even adorable Chris!) fucking stupid, ready to believe anything as if they just arrived in the show; 

2. resorted to the lazy storytelling convention of giving Rebecca a human plot device (whether or not it's an Honest Representation of Mental Illness) to whom she can talk;

3. set up scenes in which Rebecca and young Rebecca can apparently stand in the background, completely unnoticed, and witness plot developments; and

4. included a completely pointless musical number about zoos (and I don't care if it's a Drake parody, or that the show itself lampshades how stupid the song is).

[femmefan1946]

Heather was terrific.

I'm glad that as poor Rebecca falls deeper into her illness, that the show is using background characters to lighten the angst. Tim last week and Heather's reaction to her Glurge Song.

https://www.snopes.com/?s=glurge

In passing, Heather has been attending a community college, right?

Can she take some or all of her courses to a 'real' university and go for a Bachelor degree, then a Master's and then a Doctorate?

In BC and in Quebec this is possible. Quebec has a CEGEP diploma as a prerequisite for a degree program and BC allows diploma courses as counting towards degrees. DD has tenants who are doing community college courses in Rural Medicine as a lead in to medical degrees. (But mostly they play hockey.)

[dungeonwriter]

Wow, every time Rebecca hits rock bottom, she manages to drill deeper. Elon Musk should hire her for his Boring company, she can tunnel into disaster better than anyone. 

I'm not sure how much further Rebecca can fall. She has libeled Josh (lawyer should know this) and he can sue her. 

Nathaniel will not stay for the crazy, he just won't. And now her friends know all. And they look scared. 

I hope she doesn't end up in a mental ward. 

[niklj]

Aren't half the crazy things Rebecca admitted to actually Paula's ideas...?

This episode didn't seem as disjointed as last week's.

ITA about how weird it was that Josh's friends turned on him like that, especially knowing him since childhood--wouldn't they want to check with him on that article? Especially if it was written by a jilted ex with no comment from him? I think they tried to make it into a "people are gullible and believe fake news" joke but it seemed lazy.

The zoo had me laughing.

[kitkat343]

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ITA about how weird it was that Josh's friends turned on him like that, especially knowing him since childhood--wouldn't they want to check with him on that article?

Especially since some of Josh's friends have not appeared to be Rebecca's biggest fan club in the past.  I remember someone (maybe White Josh?) rolling his eyes and wondering, "why are all my friends in love with this chick?" when Greg and Josh were fighting over her.  Even if Josh's friend's liked her, the title of the article was "don't date him" and the first person you'd think about is an ex-girlfriend being responsible for that message.  And considering the fact that he'd just stood a woman up at the altar, it seems pretty likely that the source of the article was very untrustworthy.

 

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In passing, Heather has been attending a community college, right?

Can she take some or all of her courses to a 'real' university and go for a Bachelor degree, then a Master's and then a Doctorate?

If she's at a community college in CA, it will have an automatic admission program to local University of California campuses.  In most states, if she maintains a strong average, and completes certain courses that are clearly outlined on transfer websites she can automatically transfer into a nearby 4 year school.  In California, this means that  you can go to a community college, do well in the prescribed courses, and then automatically transfer into 6 University of California campuses.  Some classes at community colleges can be transferred to a 4 year school; others are lower level credit and won't count towards a 4 year degree.  If she had legitimately taken every course at the school, she could transfer two years worth of credits into a UC campus and would be halfway to her bachelor's degree.    

Edited October 28, 2017 by kitkat343

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Songs from this episode:

I Go to the Zoo

 

The Moment Is Me

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

In passing, Heather has been attending a community college, right?

Can she take some or all of her courses to a 'real' university and go for a Bachelor degree, then a Master's and then a Doctorate?

In BC and in Quebec this is possible. Quebec has a CEGEP diploma as a prerequisite for a degree program and BC allows diploma courses as counting towards degrees. DD has tenants who are doing community college courses in Rural Medicine as a lead in to medical degrees. (But mostly they play hockey.)

 

1 hour ago, kitkat343 said:

If she's at a community college in CA, it will have an automatic admission program to local University of California campuses.  In most states, if she maintains a strong average, and completes certain courses that are clearly outlined on transfer websites she can automatically transfer into a nearby 4 year school.  In California, this means that  you can go to a community college, do well in the prescribed courses, and then automatically transfer into 6 University of California campuses.  Some classes at community colleges can be transferred to a 4 year school; others are lower level credit and won't count towards a 4 year degree.  If she had legitimately taken every course at the school, she could transfer two years worth of credits into a UC campus and would be halfway to her bachelor's degree.    

Yes, Heather's courses could count towards earning a bachelor degree if she transferred to a university, which is why a lot of people attend community college first (it's much cheaper than university tuition). You can take all the lower division requirements at the cost of $46 per unit at community college ($690 for 15 units).

But just to clarify, simply attending a community college in California and taking certain courses DOES NOT guarantee transfer admission into a UC.

There are UC Transfer Admission Guarantee programs but you have to (1) sign up for the program (2) take the required courses (3) maintain a GPA specified by the school you are transferring to.  You can do TAG for UC Davis, UC Irvine, UC Merced, UC Riverside, UC Santa Barbara, and UC Santa Cruz from all California community colleges. There are different requirements and restrictions for each campus though. For example, UC Davis requires a 3.20 GPA (or a 3.30 if you are applying to the College of Engineering) with no grades below a C. You can't do TAG at UC Santa Barbara if you are a dance or engineering major. UC Irvine requires a 3.4 GPA. There are no longer TAG programs for the three most competitive UC campuses (UC Berkeley, UCLA, and UC San Diego).

UC campuses limit the maximum total number of units you can have as a transfer student though. You can't have more than 90 semester units when you apply to transfer to a UC so if Heather had taken every course at her school, she would not be eligible for TAG or transferring to a UC. As was pointed out by @kitkat343, not all courses from a community college will transfer to your next university, but all of the units from those courses count towards your maximum unit total. Like if you took a voice class and then transferred to a university that doesn't have a performing arts department, the units for that class will still count towards the 90 unit maximum but will not count towards your graduation requirements. In addition, most UC campuses will only apply 70 of your transferrable units towards graduation and major requirements.

For the record, you do not have to do TAG in order to transfer to a UC campus. You can just fill out the transfer application and cross your fingers. The biggest reason people do TAG is because it guarantees them admission to the school of their choice (so long as they fulfill the requirements). You can only do TAG for one campus though, so you have to decide where you want to transfer before you sign the TAG agreement.

CSU campuses have a different program called Associate Degree for Transfer. You take the required courses and then you leave your community college with an associate degree and guaranteed admission to a CSU campus (although not necessarily the campus that's your first choice and it doesn't guarantee you will get into your major if it's impacted). Some CSU campuses have TAG programs through local community colleges though. If you attend a community college in San Diego, you can sign a TAG agreement for guaranteed admission to San Diego State so that you don't have to just hope that the ADT will admit you to SDSU instead of sending you an acceptance to Chico, which is 600 miles north.

In addition to UC and CSU campuses, some community colleges have transfer agreements with other schools (usually local private universities). If you attend Los Angeles City College, they have transfer guarantee agreements with Loyola Marymount and ASU. California community colleges now also have transfer agreements with 35 HBCUs.

I transferred to a UC (without using TAG) and my sister was later a UC admissions counselor so this might be way more information than you ever wanted to know about transferring!

[Eeksquire]

Heather finally gets a song and its... that? I mean, I know it fits in with her slacker character and whatever, but I feel like Vella Lovell could do so much better.  And HAS done better in the background of other songs! I was disappointed in both of the songs this week.

Though I was happy to see the return of Young Rebecca, because she's fantastic.  And Chris! He looks so different, I almost didn't recognize him with the dudes at Home Base! (And yes, I am Officially Old, now that I am saying things like that about child actors.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yay for the return of Father Brah! And young Rebecca!

I agree that while the song fit Heather's character, Vella is capable of better.

Even though I didn't like the zoo song, I agree with Nathaniel that the zoo in San Diego is better.

Props to Trent's investigator for finding Robert's restraining order, the sealed criminal indictment for arson, and her intake papers for her stay in the psychiatric institute. Talk about thorough!

If Heather doesn't want to stop being a student, she can enroll at another community college or transfer to one of the many colleges and universities in the greater Los Angeles area. Mt. SAC is 4 miles from West Covina,  Citrus College is 6 miles away. and Rio Hondo is 7 miles away so she could easily attend another community college if all she really wants to do is keep being a student. If she wants to transfer somewhere inexpensive, Cal Poly Pomona is 5 miles away and Fullerton is 12 miles away.

It's clear that Rebecca has a lot of issues and she is the architect of this disaster, but it was so sad when she let her insecurities and anxiety take over. When she said that she could just explain and her friends would understand and forgive her and then young Rebecca said that those people were not her friends, she's never had friends, and she was going to get sent back to the loony bin if she didn't run away, the look on Rebecca's face when she accepted that and said that it was true because no one would like her since she's a gross stupid dummy was just so sad. She obviously believes that no one could really like her or accept her because she's not good enough.

[alrightokay]

This episode strained credibility even more than usual, but I still enjoyed it for the non-Rebecca parts (she was so awful all episode):

Father Brah!  I've missed you and your calm tone of voice that you use even when you're freaking out. :)

Heather and her starfish who can look into her soul. I also liked how her moment with her old self contrasted with all of Rebecca's moments with her young self.  While Young and Old Heather hold hands and "get" each other, Young Rebecca constantly harangues Old Rebecca and makes her feel horrible.

George was hilarious--I'm so glad they gave him more to do.  (And to think that he started out as a character whose defining trait was that no one knew his name.)

Nathaniel's line: "When you meet someone who melts the iceberg that is your heart, you want to save them right back, because you want tomorrow to start today forever."  And awww at Nathaniel bottle-feeding the panda cub at the zoo.

I'm glad that people know the truth about Robert now, and the way Paula, Heather, Valencia, and Darryl behaved when they stopped Rebecca from leaving, it seemed like they were more concerned for her, rather than angry or out for punishment.  So while Rebecca feels like she doesn't have any friends or doesn't deserve them, the show seems to be saying that her friends love her unconditionally (though not so unconditionally that they won't make her get help!).  Maybe once Rebecca sees that she can be loved just for being herself, she'll start getting healthy.

ETA: There was a nice directing touch in the scene when Rebecca's arguing with her younger self in the bathroom.  There's a shot of Rebecca reflected in the mirror, with the mirror only framing Old Rebecca (it's not big enough to show both Old and Young Rebeccas), so it looks like she's talking to herself (which she is).

Edited October 28, 2017 by alrightokay

[Mockingbird]

Oof. I can usually sympathize with Rebecca, even when she’s doing pretty terrible things, but her telling Paula that her work on the Josh case was embarrassing and “cute” was just cruel. 

Also, add me to the list of people who hated how quickly Josh’s friends turned on him. I could see if a few people at Home Base believed the article, but Hector and WhiJo? Come on, show. 

On a positive note, I do love George. And Heather’s song was entertaining, even if it was a waste of Vella’s voice. 

On another note, I don’t know how I feel about Nathaniel. As “Oh My God I Think I Like You” is probably my favorite song from this show, I wish it wasn’t used here. If Nathaniel’s heart is actually melting and this isn’t some gross “I’m not used to being rejected so I’m gonna come after you harder” thing, it’s just a really weird time to be developing feelings for Rebecca. 

[tennisgurl]

As soon as Paula got the call, I was like "Oh wait, Father Brah is Paula's priest too!" and then I knew shit was about to get real. I think that Paula was into helping Rebecca with her revenge schemes when she could tell herself that Rebecca is just intense and quirky, and that her obsession with Josh was basically harmless (and she was clearly just looking for an outlet for her stale marriage anyway), but knowing that Rebecca actually could have hurt someone, and that she is actually sick, I think that would make her feel awful. 

The songs were more funny this week then actually good. Nathaniel at the zoo was pretty great, but cant say I was blown away or that it has much re watch value. I've been wanting Heather to get a song for awhile, and while it was enjoyable and in character, it wasn't really the showcase that I was hoping for. 

I also raise an eyebrow that everyone would automatically believe that Josh had all these beliefs and told all these lies when many of his friends have known him since they were kids. If they were making commentary on people mindlessly buying whatever the internet is selling, they didn't go far enough. Rebecca is hardly a reliable source, being the recently jilted ex, and they should have known that. Hell, even the website should have known that. Why are they even printing this story about some random guy being a jerk? Is this a news site, or an ex bashing webpage? 

It looked like her friends were less pissed off and more concerned when they went to see her. Maybe this is actually a good thing, and Rebecca can actually get some real help? I have to say, I am super glad the envelop came back into play like this. The show has quite consistently done a good job at building a strong story, taking plot elements from earlier and bringing them back into play at proper times, and dealing with things that I didn't like or felt unexplored earlier. 

[angora]

3 hours ago, alrightokay said:

I'm glad that people know the truth about Robert now, and the way Paula, Heather, Valencia, and Darryl behaved when they stopped Rebecca from leaving, it seemed like they were more concerned for her, rather than angry or out for punishment.  So while Rebecca feels like she doesn't have any friends or doesn't deserve them, the show seems to be saying that her friends love her unconditionally (though not so unconditionally that they won't make her get help!).  Maybe once Rebecca sees that she can be loved just for being herself, she'll start getting healthy.

That's what I thought, too.  It reminded me of the episode where she got a ridiculous makeover to compensate for that embarrassing 911 call getting out - she was in full-on defense mode because she was convinced everyone was laughing at her, but really, they were just concerned for her.  I hope that's what's happening here, that everyone's there to try and help her instead of turn on her.  Rebecca convincing herself that she had no friends was so sad.

I appreciated that, even though Paula was going along with the Josh stuff, you could tell she had her doubts.  Even though she was dealing with her own stuff after Rebecca (horribly) told her her work on the case wasn't up to standard, she recognized that something was off (although she wasn't quite ready to deal with how off it really was.)

So glad to see Father Brah back!  He's super entertaining, but he can also serve as a really good voice of reason.  Here, I liked him using his calm voice with Paula and Josh even as he admitted he was totally freaking out.

[DianeDobbler]

I really was annoyed at how credulous Paula was for most of the episode. I really wasn't buying it. By Rebecca's third shot at spinning her, the Paula *I'm* familiar with would have known Rebecca was scamming. By the time Rebecca listed Josh's made up flaws - his bigotry, etc., Paula wouldn't have been puzzled or confused, she'd have known her little obsessed stalker friend had done something and was frantically trying to fix it. So that was a real distraction and annoyance. I don't believe for a second Josh's friends would have believed that he was homophobic either- they've known him since childhood, and "Rebecca's a smart lawyer" is not a reason for them to doubt she's capable of this. If Rebecca's lies about Josh had been more clever, then the episode would have worked better, but they were stupid lies that sounded and looked like stupid lies, so all the people who believed them ended up looking stupid, and that's why this episode was damaged for me. I think the lies being so asinine but having everybody believe them on first read just made a lot of characters look stupid, and it was disappointing. Better lies, that would have made a difference. They went for comical lies, but instead of nobody buying it, Rebecca won with them.

OTOH while I was "eh" on Nathaniel last week, and last SEASON I wanted George to be gone SO badly, putting them together is really working and I have to give the show credit. Making George sort of Nathianel's valet almost, his little henchman and influencer, is funny, and their rhythms do play off each other well, particularly in the scene where George was telling Nathaniel how to recover his status. I also thought the actress who played Rebecca's mini me did her best acting in the role to date.

One other note - while I know the "I go to the zoo" song was a funny contrast to Nathaniel's veneer of sophistication, many of the lyrics sounded like a song Josh would sing. It was a comical juxtaposition to Nathaniel's public self, but when I listened to the words I thought - this is like "Duh." Josh could be singing this. The only parts I don't think were Josh-like were the going to the club, in my "rari", having bottle service and hanging with babes parts.

Edited October 29, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[dubbel zout]

I loved the running joke about Joyce Carol Oates's prolificacy.

LOL at Josh picking up Rebecca in his arms and not being able to get her out the door.

[DrBriCa]

One thing I wondered about this episode was how lax the workday is at the law firm. (I did love Darryl's side comment about Rebecca & Paula working on her pro bono lawsuit with no benefit to the firm!) This episode seemed to take place in mostly one day, which meant that Rebecca: went to work in the morning to try to quash the lawsuit, took a lunch break for the interview, went home to obsessively check for the blog while ignoring Heather, swung back to the office to see the effects of the blog, head to happy hour at Home Base, and return to work once more for the evening before forgetting entirely about her 8pm dinner with Nathaniel! With a revolving door like that for employees during the work day, no wonder they have such bad ratings... on the legal review website!

6 hours ago, alrightokay said:

I'm glad that people know the truth about Robert now, and the way Paula, Heather, Valencia, and Darryl behaved when they stopped Rebecca from leaving, it seemed like they were more concerned for her, rather than angry or out for punishment.  So while Rebecca feels like she doesn't have any friends or doesn't deserve them, the show seems to be saying that her friends love her unconditionally (though not so unconditionally that they won't make her get help!).  Maybe once Rebecca sees that she can be loved just for being herself, she'll start getting healthy.

They did seem concerned and I do hope that's the direction the show goes. While the Robert ordeal is concerning (and puts a lot of her actions present-day into a new light), I don't like in TV when the mere fact of a criminal or psychiatric history completely change's someone's views about a person. It's been a number of years since then (Rebecca was able to successfully navigate through Yale Law School, work at a big NY law firm, and pass the bar for both NY and CA). She definitely has baggage, but a history of one psych admission after a traumatic breakup over half a decade earlier should not necessarily mean that "it's like I never really knew her." Granted, she no longer takes medications and rarely listens to her current therapist when she bothers to show up for appointments.... but she should be judged more for that now than by just having a (medical/criminal) record.

[txhorns79]

Quote

She definitely has baggage, but a history of one psych admission after a traumatic breakup over half a decade earlier should not necessarily mean that "it's like I never really knew her." Granted, she no longer takes medications and rarely listens to her current therapist when she bothers to show up for appointments.... but she should be judged more for that now than by just having a (medical/criminal) record.

In fairness, Rebecca's psych admission was because her response to a bad break up was to try to burn down the guy's house.  Even if you give Rebecca the excuse of having been through a bad break up, that kind of reaction is so extreme as to be frightening.  If I was her friend, had heard about all the things she said to Josh about things she had done to try to date him and then found out this was a person who already had to be admitted because she went entirely out of control over a relationship, I would be very concerned.     

[DianeDobbler]

I hope her friends react with concern as well, but that brings me to another Paula issue. Her character was really distorted to confrom to this episode. "I never really knew her?" Paula, you put a camera on Rebecca's dress so you could watch her get in good with Josh's family on Thanksgiving, you and your husband ran to Rebecca's house and threw a rock through her window to back up Rebecca's lie about a break-in, you yourself set things up to get Rebecca and Josh together at dinner - all of this is extremely Robert-level behavior, minus the arson, but don't tell me you're shocked. Valencia as well. Not only did she and Rebecca track Anna Hicks via social media (which I completely buy as the behavior of normal, relatively immature ex girlfriends) but they broke into Anna's place of business - ok, in order to cover their tracks, but both of them that entire episode were OTT. Rebecca is "crazy" but it's a crazy that fits in with everything else her friends know about her, particularly if you pull back ten years when she was likely even less mature, more reactive, more obsessive than she is now.

BTW, absolutely loved Rebecca's "mug shot" on what looked like her psych intake form. Perfect facial expression. I have two thoughts about Bloom this season 1, I think her singing has become a bit brassy and her vocals have lost some flexibility (albeit most of the material she's sung has required belting), but 2,, her acting is a knock-out. Even during "After everything I've done for you" that she sang to Josh, you could see the upset, heartbreak and disappointment of each incident she described, as well as the anger.

About the arson - I've posted before that I have a friend who was quite Rebecca-like, including what Aline Brosh McKenna describes as Rebecca's essential goodness and empathy. If I had heard that, in her past, my friend had done something like this, I'd have envisioned a scenario where she slugged back some whisky, threw some whisky on the guy's clothes and lit a match - the opposite of sociopathy  - just someone who is so flooded with feelings they're completely in the moment. Now, I think even at my friend's most disordered, she actually wouldn't have done anything like that - at her worst she was reality based enough to stop herself. But if she'd done something in the vicinity of illegal, and knowing her, I would have figured it was some explosion of emotion stemming from whatever her DSM thing was. I wouldn't think she was someone I didn't know.

Edited October 29, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[Empress1]

4 hours ago, DrBriCa said:

One thing I wondered about this episode was how lax the workday is at the law firm. (I did love Darryl's side comment about Rebecca & Paula working on her pro bono lawsuit with no benefit to the firm!) This episode seemed to take place in mostly one day, which meant that Rebecca: went to work in the morning to try to quash the lawsuit, took a lunch break for the interview, went home to obsessively check for the blog while ignoring Heather, swung back to the office to see the effects of the blog, head to happy hour at Home Base, and return to work once more for the evening before forgetting entirely about her 8pm dinner with Nathaniel! With a revolving door like that for employees during the work day, no wonder they have such bad ratings... on the legal review website!

Rebecca is about the least busy lawyer I've ever seen. It doesn't seem like any work gets done at that firm. I remember last season when Nathaniel first got there and was threatening layoffs and Rebecca got them the client that saved their jobs, but I think that's the last time I saw Rebecca do any work. I know the firm is much smaller and less busy than her big NYC firm (that is, after all, the point), but she really doesn't seem to do any work at all. She actively doesn't work, at work.

8 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

Oof. I can usually sympathize with Rebecca, even when she’s doing pretty terrible things, but her telling Paula that her work on the Josh case was embarrassing and “cute” was just cruel. 

Also, add me to the list of people who hated how quickly Josh’s friends turned on him. I could see if a few people at Home Base believed the article, but Hector and WhiJo? Come on, show. 

Yeah, that was awful! I was more mad about Rebecca gas lighting Paula into thinking her work on the case was bad than I was about her trying to discredit Josh (and I agree, Josh's friends have known him for ages and I don't think they'd be so gullible). Paula is her friend and she tried to ruin her confidence in her work. That's shitty.

I feel like Rebecca is going to sabotage her life even more now that she's in a place where she feels like she doesn't deserve anything. 

[SmithW6079]

Rebecca is a shitty excuse for a human being and deserves everything bad that should happen to her. 

I liked Nathaniel's song -- I thought it was a cheesy send-up of those boy band '90s ballads.

[poppy-]

On 10/27/2017 at 9:16 PM, Rinaldo said:

I assume that "I Go to the Zoo" is a parody of a particular music video that I would recognize if I were more knowledgeable?

It started out Hotline Bling and then veered into Lonely Island.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I hope her friends react with concern as well, but that brings me to another Paula issue. Her character was really distorted to confrom to this episode. "I never really knew her?" Paula, you put a camera on Rebecca's dress so you could watch her get in good with Josh's family on Thanksgiving, you and your husband ran to Rebecca's house and threw a rock through her window to back up Rebecca's lie about a break-in, you yourself set things up to get Rebecca and Josh together at dinner - all of this is extremely Robert-level behavior, minus the arson, but don't tell me you're shocked.

This is something I didn't like, and brings me back to something I thought last season.  Rebecca's actual mom is the one she needs and Paula is really "the bad mom" to Rebecca.  And yes, during the first season of the show, Paula either urged Rebecca on, or outright participated in Rebecca's crazy stunts to win over Josh, so for her to act now like all she never really knew Rebecca is a little rich.  

[quangtran]

20 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

This is something I didn't like, and brings me back to something I thought last season.  Rebecca's actual mom is the one she needs and Paula is really "the bad mom" to Rebecca.

I view is the opposite, in that while Paula is sometimes a “bad mom” figure, Naomi is a bad mom. She spent years telling her young daughter that she is weird and is responsible her driving her dad away, and is largely responsible for her low self-worth.

20 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

And yes, during the first season of the show, Paula either urged Rebecca on, or outright participated in Rebecca's crazy stunts to win over Josh, so for her to act now like all she never really knew Rebecca is a little rich.  

It was very different back then because Paula could easily justify those crazy stunts because they were living out seemingly harmless sit-com and rom-com tropes. Very different to someone who might actually be crazy and institutionalised.

[dubbel zout]

6 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

I think they haven't quite figured out how to serve her voice with the songs.

I also think they haven't quite figured out how to serve Heather as a character, especially now that we don't see Rebecca at home much anymore. When Heather was her next-door neighbor, the interaction could happen more organically.

[txhorns79]

Quote

She spent years telling her young daughter that she is weird and is responsible her driving her dad away, and is largely responsible for her low self-worth.

I always had thought Naomi tried to protect Rebecca from her father, in that, while Rebecca may have viewed her mother as blaming Rebecca for her father leaving, the real Naomi tried to shield Rebecca from her father's neglect. 

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, txhorns79 said:

Quote

She spent years telling her young daughter that she is weird and is responsible her driving her dad away, and is largely responsible for her low self-worth.

I always had thought Naomi tried to protect Rebecca from her father, in that, while Rebecca may have viewed her mother as blaming Rebecca for her father leaving, the real Naomi tried to shield Rebecca from her father's neglect. 

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

[AllyB]

16 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

that brings me to another Paula issue. Her character was really distorted to confrom to this episode. "I never really knew her?" Paula, you put a camera on Rebecca's dress so you could watch her get in good with Josh's family on Thanksgiving, you and your husband ran to Rebecca's house and threw a rock through her window to back up Rebecca's lie about a break-in, you yourself set things up to get Rebecca and Josh together at dinner - all of this is extremely Robert-level behavior, minus the arson, but don't tell me you're shocked.

Not only that but when Rebecca and Greg got together and Rebecca decided to give their relationship a real shot and forget about the Josh stuff, Paula went off the deep end. SHE refused to let go of the Josh fantasy and was affronted that Rebecca was ready to. Rebecca was making a much healthier choice in choosing what for all either of them knew could have been a potentially satisfying relationship over an absolute obsession with a man who isn't even suited to her. But Paula furious instead of accepting or even happy for her.

I know it wasn't a favourite part of the episode but I laughed so hard at WhiJo remembering that when they were children Josh used to call him fancypants and Josh's confused, "but they were fancy pants, so many pockets!"

[SeanC]

Ava Acres is so great as young Rebecca, it's too bad that the nature of that role obviously means she can't be in the show much.

[possibilities]

The arson is what I find frightening, not that she was in a psych hospital. I don't want this show to turn into "mentally ill people are scary and dangerous and let's up the stigma on that and lean hard into stereotypes." Until now, I thought the show was fairly good about avoiding those pitfalls, but now I'm not sure.

[Trini]

On 10/28/2017 at 9:18 AM, Eeksquire said:

Heather finally gets a song and its... that? I mean, I know it fits in with her slacker character and whatever, but I feel like Vella Lovell could do so much better.  And HAS done better in the background of other songs! I was disappointed in both of the songs this week.

She had "Stuck in the Bathroom" last season. :)

[DianeDobbler]

Yeah, now that I've digested the episode, I thought Vera Lovell's song was weak. There was a review online that thought it was brilliant, so, different strokes, I guess. "I go to the zoo" wasn't a great song, but it did land its main joke beats - the beat where he goes to the aquarium, and the line about San Diego being such a better zoo. But as I said in a previous post, it sounded like a Josh song to me.

Paula's credulity where Rebecca was concerned threw me right out of the episode. First time, she might give Rebecca the benefit of the doubt, but as the episode went on, particularly "I never really knew her." I was just gone.  I used to watch soap operas a lot and there were often times when a character would be shoe-horned into some plot. When that happened I would keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, and it never did. "Nope, the character actually believed that." "The character actually chose that." It would be so fucked up I'd usually bail until the soap got different writers.

"Don't Date Him." But as far as Rebecca knew, Josh was in priesT school, ready to vow a life of celibacy. Don't date him made no sense.

Edited October 29, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[Glory]

I didn't like this episode. But a bad episode of Crazy Ex is still 100x better than a good episode of almost anything else. 

I like Heather as a character, but I really didn't need this song. I thought it missed by a mile. But the Nathaniel song did get me. I did not expect the "zoo" reference and died when he went from the club to the zoo. 

Still waiting for my main man, Trent to show up. 

[springbarb]

I did find it hard to believe that Josh's friends would believe the article, but as soon as he started listing all the stuff Rebecca did, I could understand their reaction. Listed out like that, they would find it hard to believe.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I did find it hard to believe that Josh's friends would believe the article, but as soon as he started listing all the stuff Rebecca did, I could understand their reaction. Listed out like that, they would find it hard to believe.

I could see why they would be dubious when Josh made all the claims concerning Rebecca, but I found it hard to believe they would take that article about him seriously given that Rebecca made some pretty wild claims. 

I think the saddest thing here is that Rebecca's actions have served to completely let Josh off the hook for what he did.  He actually did something really awful to her, but that's now entirely lost because he learned, after the fact, that Rebecca did a lot of terrible stuff to manipulate him. 

[DrBriCa]

7 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

"Don't Date Him." But as far as Rebecca knew, Josh was in priesT school, ready to vow a life of celibacy. Don't date him made no sense.

Rebecca only went for the blog interview after she saw Josh's Facebook Live post about leaving priest school and rallying his friends to meet at happy hour. That's why she repeatedly told the interviewer to type the article right away... She already knew he was not going to be a priest by that time.

[femmefan1946]

In fairness, Rebecca's psych admission was because her response to a bad break up was to try to burn down the guy's house. 

Was it his house-- like on a lot 50 feet from the neighbours-- or was it his apartment-- in a building shared by several families?

And didn't Rebecca lose her first home in West Covina when she set it on fire-- although it was a townhouse with attached homes on both sides?

[Good Queen Jane]

I found Josh's friends reaction to Rebecca's lies more believable than most of you (although very sad). First of all, the article wasn't written by Rebecca, it was written by someone else (although quoting Rebecca) and as the bartender said, if it's on the Internet, it must be true. Second, Josh had just done a horrible thing, leaving Rebecca at the altar and never talking to her about it, which White Josh and Hector had already criticized him about. Finally, his friends remembered comments that seemed to support the article which were particularly hurtful to them. So when Josh follows the article with what seems to be ridiculous accusations against Rebecca, I could see how his friends would turn against him in the moment. Of course, as a plot device, they had to, so Josh would have the motivation to finally open the envelope Trent had given him.

I really think Rebecca's friends are confronting her at the end out of concern and to help her. The saddest part of the whole episode was when Young Rebecca told her (self) that she had  no friends and she had to run away. Yes, Rebecca did a terrible thing to Robert, but she got treatment and was able to function until the pressure got to her. She had a relapse and now, I hope, with the support of her friends, she will start another recovery. That would fit with the theme of mental illness not being a forever mark against one but something that can be treated and lived with.

On a completely unrelated note, I have not been able to get "I Go To The Zoo" out of head all weekend. Help!

[HerkyJerky]

19 hours ago, SeanC said:

Ava Acres is so great as young Rebecca, it's too bad that the nature of that role obviously means she can't be in the show much.

Totally agree!  She's fantastic.  She out-Rebecca's Rebecca.

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think the saddest thing here is that Rebecca's actions have served to completely let Josh off the hook for what he did.  He actually did something really awful to her, but that's now entirely lost because he learned, after the fact, that Rebecca did a lot of terrible stuff to manipulate him. 

Yeah, that really sucks. They are separate bad acts.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Yes, Rebecca did a terrible thing to Robert, but she got treatment and was able to function until the pressure got to her. She had a relapse and now, I hope, with the support of her friends, she will start another recovery.

I think the only time during the series where we have seen Rebecca able to function is probably when she was on her meds, unhappy in New York.  Otherwise, I think what we've seen is Rebecca in a slow motion downward spiral for two seasons.     

[possibilities]

She was functioning in a way, but she was desperately miserable. I hope they don't abandon the critique of meds as the solution for her. She clearly has psychological problems, not just some biochemical imbalance that needs correcting. And actually I think there were times during the show when she was shown to be functioning in the sense of doing good work as a lawyer (the main way she was functioning in NYC on meds). The problem seems to be about not dealing with her underlying issues, and also having balance in her life, so she's not just suppressing everything with drugs and workaholism and romantic distractions/delusions to soothe the pain.

[DianeDobbler]

I think Rebecca is obviously still locked in the narrative from grade school that she has no friends, and the reality that she DOES have friends just doesn't penetrate when she's in crisis. Or she thinks she's succeeded in fooling them.

My issue is even if Josh called White Josh "Fancy pants" at some points, the examples they used to validate Rebecca's claims were silly. Here's the thing - Rebecca's 911 call went viral. The one where she pooped herself and set her own home on fire. Her entire social circle knows this. The entire gang at the bar was on the party bus when Rebecca did her mortifying pole dance.  The entire gang showed up at that Cali-mex restaurant to cockblock Rebecca when she was trying to be alone with Josh. And that's just Josh's crowd.  Of course they don't approve of what he did to Rebecca, particularly him running away and not speaking to her, but that disapproval has nothing to do with these guys knowing Rebecca is fully capable of trashing Josh like this in response. In fact, Josh leaving her at the altar would make what she's saying about Josh even MORE obviously a lie. And didn't White Josh suspect she'd clogged her own sink?

Then there's Paula. She has told a gazillion lies for Rebecca and has heard Rebecca tell a bazillion lies. She knew how manic Rebecca was leading up to her wedding, trying to appropriate a pinterest DIY and turn herself and Josh into that couple. Rebecca, for weeks, has been telling Paula that she wants a stronger, more visceral revenge. Then she comes out with all of these implausible-sounding lies about Josh and Paula BUYS them as real? I think we were meant to accept this because Rebecca undermined Paula's legal skills, making Paula feel vulnerable, but I'm not buying that either.

[AllyB]

18 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

My issue is even if Josh called White Josh "Fancy pants" at some points, the examples they used to validate Rebecca's claims were silly. Here's the thing - Rebecca's 911 call went viral. The one where she pooped herself and set her own home on fire. Her entire social circle knows this. The entire gang at the bar was on the party bus when Rebecca did her mortifying pole dance.  The entire gang showed up at that Cali-mex restaurant to cockblock Rebecca when she was trying to be alone with Josh. And that's just Josh's crowd.  Of course they don't approve of what he did to Rebecca, particularly him running away and not speaking to her, but that disapproval has nothing to do with these guys knowing Rebecca is fully capable of trashing Josh like this in response. In fact, Josh leaving her at the altar would make what she's saying about Josh even MORE obviously a lie. And didn't White Josh suspect she'd clogged her own sink?

It wasn't that Hector and WhiJo automatically believed Rebecca, it's that Josh said he found out about Rebecca's crazy actions when she told him about them. That's what they didn't believe, they specifically said she's a smart lawyer and as such not someone they could see just coming to Josh and just telling him the awful truth about the crazy things she did. They didn't think she wasn't crazy, just not crazy and stupid. On the otherhand, Josh had behaved abominably an was desperate not to look bad and be in any way the villain of his own story. A facet of his personality which they will have seen over and over and over again with Josh.