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Hollywood's Dirty Little (Open) Secrets: Harvey Weinstein and Others Like Him

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10 minutes ago, Willowsmom said:

Any time women leave the country in an entertainment job (football may be sports but the cheerleaders are entertainment) they need to be cautious. There are far too many stories like this from all over the world, even with otherwise reputable companies. Should this group have known? I don't know but no woman should leave the US without a way to reach the American consulate.

Thank you!  Common sense.  The same applies to students going out of the country on class trips.  We need to bring back the chaperone.

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12 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

Any time someone commits a crime, they should be held responsible for their actions.  Taking someone's passport, and blackmailing them into doing something they don't want to do, is a crime.  Start holding governments accountable to.  Men like Roman Polanski couldn't get away with their crimes if they weren't being enabled by governments around the world.

 

In this country you are absolutely right.  But it's not that way elsewhere. It's not that easy to dictate to another sovereign government what to do even if the American government wants to. However they  could be held responsible by the NFL and the US now.

Even if we could change all the laws everywhere there are still disreputable people who will do  this stuff with n o thought to consequences for their victims or themselves.

I mean nothing political by this. Every administration has levied sanctions or not based on information we don't get.

Edited by Willowsmom

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1 hour ago, Willowsmom said:

Any time women leave the country in an entertainment job (football may be sports but the cheerleaders are entertainment) they need to be cautious. There are far too many stories like this from all over the world, even with otherwise reputable companies. Should this group have known? I don't know but no woman should leave the US without a way to reach the American consulate.

I don't understand how they got their passports.  Once my cousin wanted everyone's passport while we were standing in line at the airport so she could just hand them all to the desk clerk at once, and that made me really uncomfortable.  If she had attempted to go elsewhere, I would have taken it back.  I don't get how they let someone take away their passports.  I'm not trying to say that any blackmail that took place is their fault for giving up their passports, but that is exactly one of the reasons you can take my passport out of my cold, dead hands.  Supposedly it's a company policy for "security" reasons, and if they really are doing that with the best of intentions, that's completely irresponsible because there are a number of reasons you should be in possession of your own passport in a foreign country.

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18 minutes ago, janie jones said:

I don't understand how they got their passports.  Once my cousin wanted everyone's passport while we were standing in line at the airport so she could just hand them all to the desk clerk at once, and that made me really uncomfortable.  If she had attempted to go elsewhere, I would have taken it back.  I don't get how they let someone take away their passports.  I'm not trying to say that any blackmail that took place is their fault for giving up their passports, but that is exactly one of the reasons you can take my passport out of my cold, dead hands.  Supposedly it's a company policy for "security" reasons, and if they really are doing that with the best of intentions, that's completely irresponsible because there are a number of reasons you should be in possession of your own passport in a foreign country.

They could have played it as a security issue "don't worry your pretty little heads about keeping your passport safe, just give it to us and we'll look after it"

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3 hours ago, WarnerCL45 said:

Thank you!  Common sense.  The same applies to students going out of the country on class trips.  We need to bring back the chaperone.

Students have chaperones when they go on trips.  Are you actually suggesting that grown women need chaperones?  I don't want to live in that country.  

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17 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

Students have chaperones when they go on trips.  Are you actually suggesting that grown women need chaperones?  I don't want to live in that country.  

I'm sorry but you do live there. Lots of groups still have chaperones. Both to keep the girls safe and in line with whatever the group rules are.

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2 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

They could have played it as a security issue "don't worry your pretty little heads about keeping your passport safe, just give it to us and we'll look after it"

I've traveled with groups in foreign countries where theft/pickpockets were not uncommon and, quite often, when traveling in a group, we'd collect everyone's passport and lock them in a safe.  Many European hotels ask for your passport when you check in.  I think it is quite possible, that, since they were traveling as a group, they were asked to give their passports to one of the team administrators in order to get their room assignments and then were told that their passports would be held for safekeeping until they left.  Presumably, these women trusted their bosses up to this point and had no reason to think they were being kept there against their will.  For that matter, we never heard that anyone refused to return their passports to them or that they even asked for them back.  I think the passport thing is kind of a nonissue, really.  None of the women said they asked for their passport back or otherwise tried to leave and were prevented from doing so.

I saw the two women who were sent to the network shows to dispute the claims of the others.  However, they said some interesting stuff that made me go 'hmmm..'  They denied the 'topless' allegations in that they always had something to cover them.  Not that they didn't remove their tops, just that they were 'covered' in some way for the photos.  Of course, whether they were standing behind potted palms or covered with their arms or footballs or whatever; some of them might have agreed to that, only to be very dismayed to find out that there was going to be an audience for the photo shoot.  Covering up for a photo is one thing, remaining covered and being comfortable with spectators is a whole other thing.  I'd like to think that some of the women spoke up and either declined to remove their tops without privacy or asked for the audience to leave.  And, of course, they should've been informed as to what was planned and who was going to be there long before they got to Costa Rica.

Edited by doodlebug
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15 minutes ago, Willowsmom said:

I'm sorry but you do live there. Lots of groups still have chaperones. Both to keep the girls safe and in line with whatever the group rules are.

I presume these women felt that since they were there as a group, they could look out for one another.  They also had their coaches and front office personnel with them.  All of the incidents they talked about occurred while they were there as a group.  A chaperone was not going to make any difference.  Also, if women need chaperones while traveling overseas, why don't men?  Technically, these women were 'chaperoned', they were together with their coaches and others that they knew, and, yet, their bosses felt it was acceptable to use them to 'entertain' their clients.

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Who says men don't  ?  Sports teams don't call them that but someone makes sure the players are where they're supposed to be. And like or not women are less safe in other countries. It's not right but it's reality.

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I've traveled with groups in foreign countries where theft/pickpockets were not uncommon and, quite often, when traveling in a group, we'd collect everyone's passport and lock them in a safe.  Many European hotels ask for your passport when you check in. 

Many cruise ships do it as well when travelling through Asia or South America. I think it has something to do with having to clear all the passengers at each port of call even if they don't disembark. It would be a nightmare if they had to get everybody to drop by the pursers office with their passport at each port.  What do they do if somebody is sleeping? Impound the entire ship?

I very much doubt that the organizers took the passports for nefarious reasons. They probably did it so that one person could take care of all the paperwork at hotels, etc. It may have left some feeling vulnerable, but people should remember they don't actually own their passports - the government does. If somebody takes your passport and won't give it back, go to the embassy. The takee will get in big trouble and the government will help you. Don't do it too often though, because the government will stop giving you passports if you lose enough of them (they begin to think you are selling them).

That said, even if this had occurred in the US, asking the cheerleaders to be escorts or allowing an audience for a topless photo shoot should be a no-no. These women are hired to be cheerleaders, not escorts or strippers. Many professional cheerleaders are treated very badly. The sports organizations should set some standards. And maybe we don't need cheerleaders anyway. We didn't have cheerleaders at my high school and we still figured out how to cheer for the sports teams.

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55 minutes ago, possibilities said:

When shitty things are done to people, we should be outraged and defending them, calling for changes to prevent it happening again. We should not be looking for ways to get the perpetrators off the hook by blaming the people who were mistreated.

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying this happens a lot and if someone finds themselves in a work/entertainment situation be sure to know how to get in touch with the embassy or consulate for their own safety.

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32 minutes ago, Willowsmom said:

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying this happens a lot and if someone finds themselves in a work/entertainment situation be sure to know how to get in touch with the embassy or consulate for their own safety.

And when women do stand up for themselves, they get blamed with comments like "Well they should have known better."

Also, countries that are covering up the rape and abuse of women aren't all third world countries where women have no rights.  France and German head the list of offenders.

Edited by TigerLynx
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59 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

And when women do stand up for themselves, they get blamed with comments like "Well they should have known better."

Also, countries that are covering up the rape and abuse of women aren't all third world countries where women have no rights.  France and German head the list of offenders.

 

And Japan was infamous for people hiring blond singers and treating like prostitutes. It was so common it became a Law And Order.

I agree it isn' t just third world countries. I truly mean any country but your own. I'm not suggesting these women should have known better, only that it's a good idea to be cautious and have the information to contact your own government.

Edited by Willowsmom
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8 hours ago, Willowsmom said:

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm saying this happens a lot and if someone finds themselves in a work/entertainment situation be sure to know how to get in touch with the embassy or consulate for their own safety.

So agree that people (women OR men) have to take some responsibility for their own safety.  If one is going into a situation that smells a little off, it probably is.  Make sure you know your options.  

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9 hours ago, kili said:

 

That said, even if this had occurred in the US, asking the cheerleaders to be escorts or allowing an audience for a topless photo shoot should be a no-no. These women are hired to be cheerleaders, not escorts or strippers. Many professional cheerleaders are treated very badly. The sports organizations should set some standards. And maybe we don't need cheerleaders anyway. We didn't have cheerleaders at my high school and we still figured out how to cheer for the sports teams.

Pet peeve of mine.  Women in minuscule costumes cheering on men!  We didn’t have them at my kids’ school & they won championships.  We had them at my high school & mostly ignored them.

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Pet peeve of mine.  Women in minuscule costumes cheering on men! 

That's not the half of it. Some professional Cheerleaders make less than minimum wage while being expected to do all sorts of extra events and being subjected to crazy restrictions (like not being allowed to talk to the athletes or having to leave a bar/party if athletes arrive).  Mascots get paid more. Some teams even make their cheerleaders pay to audition. It's ridiculous (articles from Money and USA Today)

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As far as "blaming" - nobody is saying women are to blame.  Personally, I think you have to be wary of dicey situations and be responsible for your own safety.  In today's world, knowing how people in power behave, you can't walk around with your head up your a$$.  Of course, men (or authority figures in general) should be polite & not take advantage, but let's get real - some people will prey on other people if they can.  Apparently, a nerve has been touched here.  AND, that's my last word on the subject.  (applause not necessary)

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2 hours ago, WarnerCL45 said:

Personally, I think you have to be wary of dicey situations and be responsible for your own safety.

I think the cheerleader situation is an example of a thousand little cuts. Going to Mexico where 30 millions go on vacation a year isn't abnormal.  Traveling in a group, with a team, likely improves their chances to be safe.  Handing over their passports for safe keeping might have been a legitimate request that seemed unsafe after all the other BS.  Being asked to pose topless probably didn't even seem that strange since it's a very modelesque look and it's just the girls and photography people.

But then the other people are there.  So suddenly it went from requests that seemed reasonable to a situation that feels exploitative. 

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7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Yes, God forbid we blame the men in this situation. Or any of the situations. Poor men all they did was act completely despicable. No that can't happen. Once again let's blame the women after all that's been going on since the beginning of time. Women please be sure to remember once again to be on your guard 27/7 of your entire life. Analyze every situation as a possible sexual harassment, assault, exploitation. Work, home, grocery store, gym, sports, movies, every thing. View every man you see as potential sexual harass or assaulter. And remember no matter what happens it is always going to be your fault. You'll be blamed no matter what. You went to another country with your employer? Your fault. They took your passport. Your fault. You couldn't say no if you wanted to keep your job. Your fault. Your bosses made you do things you didn't want to do. Your fault. Your boss harasses you. Your fault. You go to a bar? Your fault. You wore a skirt? Your fault. You drank your fault. You didn't drink your fault. You smiled. We can't possibly blame the men.         

Why be one or the other? Telling women that being more careful in the future does in no way  take blame off the men.

So when you travel know where the consulate is. Don't leave you drinks unattended around strangers.  Your boss is harassing you or demanding sex to keep your job go to HR, their bit boss or the labor board. If it rises to a level to warrant it go to the police.

Why should anyone not be expected to take some personal responsibility?

The cheerleaders had no way of knowing where that trip was going. But what's wrong with being better prepared next time. Shouldn't we learn from others experiences?

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11 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Respectfully, it does take the blame off men when the focus of your posts is always on what women need to do.

Because we can only control what we do, not what others do. The axtions discussed here are already illegal for the most part and it doesn't even slow determined predator down.

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On 5/4/2018 at 4:59 PM, TigerLynx said:

He should have been in prison for decades to.

At this point, wouldn't have the statue of limitations have run out? Or does that not apply because he fled before he was formally sentenced? Can he even still be charged at this point? I read that last year a judge refused Samantha Geimmer's request to have the case dismissed.

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1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

At this point, wouldn't have the statue of limitations have run out? Or does that not apply because he fled before he was formally sentenced? Can he even still be charged at this point? I read that last year a judge refused Samantha Geimmer's request to have the case dismissed.

He doesn't need to be charged because he was already charged and convicted in 1977.  He skipped the country before he could be remanded into custody, but the trial itself had already happened, so the only thing that remains outstanding is for him to actually serve the sentence he was given.  The statute of limitations would only come into play if, for example, the state were trying to bring charges against him now as opposed to doing so in 1977.

Edited by Steph J
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I don't think that I have seen the Nike sexual harassment scandal posted here so this is the latest.

Quote

4 More Nike Executives Are Out Amid Inquiry Into Harassment Allegations

By Julie Creswell and Kevin Draper

May 8, 2018

A sweeping investigation into workplace behavior at Nike has resulted in the departure of four more top-level executives, raising to 10 the number of senior managers to leave the company as it continues to overhaul its upper ranks amid widespread allegations of harassment and discrimination against female employees.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/business/nike-harassment.html

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21 hours ago, Willowsmom said:

Because we can only control what we do, not what others do. The axtions discussed here are already illegal for the most part and it doesn't even slow determined predator down.

It doesn't slow the predators down because they're almost always men and almost never held accountable for their predatory acts because the focus is just reflexively shifted to women's accountability for being preyed upon.  Novel idea: Maybe if we all (and I mean societally, not just in these forums) put the 98% of attention that's currently given to the (usually female) victims and their character to the (usually male) harassers and assaulters and their crimes, maybe those harassers and assaulters would actually start reaping the penalties for their crimes.  I know, it's just too crazy even to think about!

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I don't think that I have seen the Nike sexual harassment scandal posted here so this is the latest.

 

I guess "Just do it!" needed some caveats attached.

Edited by possibilities
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Novel idea: Maybe if we all (and I mean societally, not just in these forums) put the 98% of attention that's currently given to the (usually female) victims and their character to the (usually male) harassers and assaulters and their crimes, maybe those harassers and assaulters would actually start reaping the penalties for their crimes. 

I know, it's just too crazy even to think about!

You madcap! 

(I agree, our standards are truly corrupt -- and not just because we often treat female victims as the real perps, but in how we treat crime overall  -- society lowers the hammer on anybody stealing the money of powerful men, but a woman's bodily integrity stolen from her?  Just another day at the office.)

Edited by film noire
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And, Miss Farrow, if you can't actually admit to yourself that you were wrong about Mr. Polanski, at least do your  traumatized kids a favor and, this time , do NOT attempt to testify on his behalf and just hang up on him should he try to pester you.

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2 hours ago, Just Here said:

NBC has released its report on Matt Lauer.

(open this Tweet to see the full thread)

 

(This is the article linked in Hadas Gold's tweet.)

Bull! I believe Ann Curry.

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It's truly shocking that NBC News' internal investigation found Lauer and themselves inculpable of anything ("complaints") beyond six months ago. I'm beside myself with surprise. And in their generosity, NBC News has hired a law firm to work for them so that aggrieved employees have an outlet to report future complaints. How nice of them and totally not self-serving at all.

GTFO of here, NBC News.

Edited by bilgistic
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5 hours ago, bilgistic said:

It's truly shocking that NBC News' internal investigation found Lauer and themselves inculpable of anything ("complaints") beyond six months ago. I'm beside myself with surprise. And in their generosity, NBC News has hired a law firm to work for them so that aggrieved employees have an outlet to report future complaints. How nice of them and totally not self-serving at all.

GTFO of here, NBC News.

You know, I initially rolled my eyes at that, too, but the two law firms that NBC hired to do the investigation—Proskauer and Davis Polk, per that CNN link above—are very highly regarded.  And internal investigations by law firms of that caliber are usually done pretty well (although had NBC released the actual reports?  I assume not, so maybe there is daylight between what the law firms found and what NBC reported out.)

But all that said, yeah, I believe Ann Curry (who apparently, per a report footnote, says that she reported a problem with Lauer without naming names).  So whoever she reported it to at the very least must have known something was up, and as Ann was one of the most powerful women at the network, well, she’s not going to be reporting that to the janitor—that’s going to higher levels than where she is at.  And it’s come out that CBS execs knew about Charlie Rose, so how does Lauer, who (if I am keeping all these horrible allegations straight) behaved even more egregiously than Rose (with Lauer allegedly raping an unconscious woman), stay unknown to senior management, even if they didn’t email about it in a way that a law firm could uncover 10 or so years later? 

Whatever the deal, it sounds like they still have a massive culture problem at NBC if lower level women are feeling pressured to sign letters of support for Brokaw, per the reports of a few days ago.  It’s like NBC has learned nothing yet, and if top-tier female talent is signing on to letters like that, I could see how the rank-and-file are stifled from speaking up about anything.

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