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Hollywood's Dirty Little (Open) Secrets: Harvey Weinstein and Others Like Him

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8 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

Do you mean that you doubt Vester’s claim that she smelled alcohol on his breath if she is asserting that he didn’t seem impaired?  People can have just taken a drink or two without being drunk, though.  

Vester told at least one other person what Brokaw was doing contemporaneously with the events.  Vester also journaled about it contemporaneously.  She said that she came forward to draw attention to the fact that an internal investigation like NBC is doing now, without the involvement of an outside law firm, can be inadequate when the most powerful person at the network is involved and the people investigating are beholden to them (just as she felt pressured into interactions with Brokaw so that he would not adversely impact her career).  I grew up watching Tom Brokaw, NBC News was always my family’s first choice for news up until about 7 years ago, and I had a lot of respect for him as a journalist, but I read firsthand Vester’s account in Variety and find her story credible, and I’d encourage anyone who hadn’t read the Variety story directly to read it.

Add to that, as I posted before, Brokaw’s letter does him no favors.  In addition to the admission that he did go to her hotel room and apartment (and so the basic contours of the interactions did happen), I interpret one comment in the letter as admission that he also “tickled” her in the office.  (He wrote, “you read that right,” so I assume he means that he can’t believe she would complain about it.)  If one of the men at my job (older than me by 30 years to boot) were to “tickle” me, I sure as hell would call that inappropriate, too.

And on top of all that, he himself admitted in his defense letter that she told him that he was making her uncomfortable!  (And still he moves in to kiss her goodbye?)

I just think Brokaw’s reaction is very Weinstein-esque.  “She interacted with me after it happened, so she must not have had a problem with me.”  Ugh.  He’s a total slimeball in my eyes now. 

Yes they can. But I'm still doubting the veracity. She was let go from NBC... at least from the looks of it. So I'm wondering about it. 

Maybe. But until more comes out, I'm on the fence.

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Why would NBC report a story only to turn around and try to get their people to refute it? Because they know that if they don't report it, it is likely to be reported by someone else, thus making it look like they are covering it up. Their best PR move is to "get out front" of it and then generate a backlash that makes them look innocent.

I'm disgusted that Maddow et al are essentially interfering in this situation in an attempt to protect Brokaw from relatively much less powerful people. Do they really think he needs their help, and that someone without a credible story would be able to destroy him? Do they really believe that just because he has been decent to them that there's no chance he did at some other time behaved badly?

How many people have expressed shock at the horrors committed by people they know, after the evidence is in? "We never suspected a thing!" is a common reaction when someone is found to have committed any number of awful deeds. Most people don't go out of their way to get caught in the act, they cover their tracks, they don't act horrible every second of their lives, they will be decent to some and horrible to others. Otherwise, everyone would be caught and convicted instantly, and there would never even need to be an investigation, because everyone would know.

I agree it's unsettling to live in a world where people who seem decent may behaving badly in ways we don't suspect. But that's the world we live in.

There are people who, if they were accused, I would be shocked. But I would seriously consider any evidence and not just react out of that shock. We all know of people who were beloved by many, who turned out to have secrets.

Edited by possibilities
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14 hours ago, slf said:

What is the point of the letter? "Brokaw has never been anything but professional and respectful with me", okay, I'm glad for them (and I mean that honestly). But what does that have to do with the issue at hand? To what end did they sign that letter? They weren't present for the incident in question so they don't know if he did it or not. All they can say is that he didn't do it to them which, while great, is useless. Harassers don't harass most of the people they know. Hell, Weinstein can probably come up with 600 women he hasn't harassed or raped but that doesn't change a thing.

One of the most maddening things men do is use the women around them as shields against criticism and accusations. "I don't hate women, my mother is a woman!" "My wife says what I said was fine so what's your problem?" "Look, these 60 women I've interacted with over the years swear I've never done anything inappropriate so please ignore this other woman who says I did." And there is pressure there, even without having been approached to give a defense. There's pressure to stand beside your friend or husband or brother and say he's not capable of this, I know for a fact!, even though that defies all logic. Our culture doesn't allow women to remain truly neutral or be able to refrain from being used as a character witness without there being repercussions, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of accusations are true.

I'm not advocating they be vilified but I can't pretend I'm not incredibly disappointed.

Yes, thank you! That's what's angering about this. They are still being used. To show see he didn't do anything to these women. See? Women are defending him. So it can't be true. There are women he didn't harass. They are willing to sign a letter. Ah, no it can still be true maybe he didn't do anything around them. They don't weren't there so they don't know if it happened or not. Harassers tend to target those who won't say anything or if they do no one will believe them.  What happens if more women come forward? 

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25 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Also the original purpose of Brokaw's first accuser coming forward publicly was that she was concerned that NBC was not bringing in independent review processes, and was not adequately addressing the problems that exist there. All this focus on defending Brokaw completely misses the point. The conversation needs to be about how to effectively address allegations, not how to shut up the people making them and avoid making any changes that will effectively address problems that arise or prevent them from occurring in the future.

This. If I hear about one more powerful man being cleared by an internal investigation with no other details, I might scream. NBC has no reason to expose Brokaw. E! has no reason to risk Seacrest. Obviously it doesn't really work for journalists or musicians but I'd love to see SAG and the other unions create an investigative body that can go in and do actual independent investigations. I don't think I personally owe anyone due process. I'm not a court and I'm not an employer. I'm personally free to write someone off because of one accusation and stop watching them/supporting them financially, but I also recognize that an employer can't do that so there needs to be something with teeth that can actually investigate and give fair information.

As for the women who signed that Brokaw letter, I don't get it. Either Tom is innocent and their words won't matter since they weren't relevant to the matter at hand or he's guilty and they look like fools for speaking out to defend him. It's not a good PR move either way and I can't imagine someone as established as Rachel Maddow or Andrea Mitchell is helped by standing by Brokaw. I get wanting to support a friend, but send him a muffin basket don't put your name on the line.

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1 hour ago, vibeology said:

It's not a good PR move either way and I can't imagine someone as established as Rachel Maddow or Andrea Mitchell is helped by standing by Brokaw.

It's also not a good journalistic move. I've lost a lot of professional respect for them.

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It feels to me like it's a numbers' game. If only one woman accuses someone, but 20 women say the person has never harassed them, that somehow takes the one woman's credibility away since obviously, a man must harass everyone around them in order for it to be true.

Only if there is a sufficient (what is sufficient anyway?) number of women accusing someone and it is a hard to ignore PATTERN, only then do they become credible.

One accusation by one woman is clearly still not enough to warrant a serious investigation. However, it will provoke people to argue she must have other motives.

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3 hours ago, supposebly said:

It feels to me like it's a numbers' game. If only one woman accuses someone, but 20 women say the person has never harassed them, that somehow takes the one woman's credibility away since obviously, a man must harass everyone around them in order for it to be true.

I agree with this.

I think that allegations should be investigated.  I'm not saying anybody should lose their job, I just think things should be looked at before they get more serious.  Sometimes it's about boundaries.  People have different boundaries.  Someone may tell an off color joke, one person might not be offended but another person might. 

Today in the 21st century, we have to accept that everybody isn't the same, we have to accept that we might work with people who have different views and different boundaries.  That's why some people want to go backwards, they want to be back in the "good old days" when everybody was a white male who felt the same way about things. 

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5 hours ago, supposebly said:

It feels to me like it's a numbers' game. If only one woman accuses someone, but 20 women say the person has never harassed them, that somehow takes the one woman's credibility away since obviously, a man must harass everyone around them in order for it to be true.

Only if there is a sufficient (what is sufficient anyway?) number of women accusing someone and it is a hard to ignore PATTERN, only then do they become credible.

One accusation by one woman is clearly still not enough to warrant a serious investigation. However, it will provoke people to argue she must have other motives.

To a point. The one woman who made an accusation who worked for NBC originally... seems a bit off to me. So until more comes out about that one claim, I remain on the fence. And the second one, we don't know much about either.

When there are more and more claims, they add up. Like with Bill Cosby for example. Like what you mentioned. 

One thing that bugs me are false claims (not saying that anyone's claims are)... but there are people who go and do that kind of thing and they take away from any legitimate ones.

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On 4/29/2018 at 9:43 AM, HunterHunted said:

I'll always remember this interview from Entertainment Tonight back when they were filming Terminator 2. Linda Hamilton's twin sister was on set doubling for her and Schwarzenegger came up behind her and started hugging and groping her. She tensed up and told him that she wasn't Linda. Hamilton's sister kept telling him that she wasn't Linda. He never stopped because he thought she was joking.

I remember thinking even as a kid that something was wrong with him. Here you have what he thinks is his leading lady indicating that she uncomfortable with him touching her, a leading lady that was dating the director and producer of the film and he just ignores every sign telling him to stop touching her.  He only stops when Linda comes around the corner and he realizes there are two of them. Him being so brazen about it always stood out to me. And Maria being so clueless about all of Arnold's behavior doesn't speak to her powers of observation and her ability to attest anything about Tom Brokaw.

Schwarzenegger is a nasty piece of work. When those women made sexual assault allegations against him when he was running for governor, he dismissed them as liars and like a good Kennedy wife, Maria Shiver defended him. About five days before the election, he claimed not all the allegations were true, but admitted that he had "behaved badly" in 1980s.

As far as I am concerned, Shriver, Maddow, Andrea Mitchell, Mika Brzezinski (I can never get over that she is Zbigniew Brzezinski's daughter) signing that letter and according Page Six pressuring their junior women colleagues to do so prove that despite the claims of people like Bill Maher (the racist bigot) that the #MeToo Movement has gone too far, that it's impact on society so far is still superficial. 

Edited by SimoneS
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1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

The Secretary of State of Louisiana has resigned after accusations of sexual harassment.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/385710-louisiana-secretary-of-state-resigns-amid-sexual-harassment

A quote from the former Secretary from the article:

Quote

"I leave the office with a heavy heart knowing I have disappointed the people in my life who care for me the most," Schedler said in his resignation letter. "But I have also experienced from them the miraculous power of forgiveness and grace during the twilight of my career, and for that I am grateful."

BARF

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13 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

There may not be a Nobel Prize for Literature awarded this year because the Committee is embroiled in a sexual harassment scandal over the husband of one of the members, including allegations he groped the Crown Princess of Sweden.

Damn, it takes some nerve to sexually assault your future queen.

Edited by SimoneS
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22 hours ago, UYI said:

I feel like the women who signed that letter on behalf of Tom Brokaw are having second thoughts now, because a THIRD woman has come forward accusing him of sexual harrassment:

https://www.thecut.com/2018/05/third-woman-has-accused-tom-brokaw-of-sexual-misconduct.html

They were dumb to have ever done it in the first place. I understand that the letter in nature wasn't a denial of the accusations but more of a personal testament to the man they know him for which is fine but the circumstances in which they've done it does read like an attempt to discredit the accuser. They should have kept their mouth shut until they were put in a position where they were asked the question and could provide a more nuanced answer that could both be truthful to their experiences while still supporting a woman's right to come forward and share her story and allow for due process to take place.

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The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has just announced that Bill Cosby and Roman Polanski have been expelled from its membership.  Via THR:

Quote

The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences has expelled Bill Cosby and Roman Polanski from its membership, the organization announced today.

...

"The Board continues to encourage ethical standards that require members to uphold the Academy’s values of respect for human dignity," the Academy said in a statement announcing their expulsion.

Cosby and Polanski are the third and fourth members to be expelled from the Academy. Harvey Weinstein was expelled in October 2017.*

 

*The only other person expelled from the Academy was Carmine Caridi in 2004 for sharing "a copyrighted movie screener with a friend who uploaded it to the Internet" (NPR).

Edited by Just Here · Reason: auto-formatting woes
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1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

They were dumb to have ever done it in the first place. I understand that the letter in nature wasn't a denial of the accusations but more of a personal testament to the man they know him for which is fine but the circumstances in which they've done it does read like an attempt to discredit the accuser. They should have kept their mouth shut until they were put in a position where they were asked the question and could provide a more nuanced answer that could both be truthful to their experiences while still supporting a woman's right to come forward and share her story and allow for due process to take place.

Oh yeah, they were, but I could see how if no one else came forward, they could feel a bit less guilty. But now...not so much. 

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1 hour ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Camille Cosby is raving that Andrea Constand lied, and comparing Bill to Emmett Till. Which, fuck you Camille, is not even remotely the same and a few dozen of his accusers are also black. He's been cheating on you your entire marriage, where's your outrage over that?

She must have known and not cared as long as the money rolled in..

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1 hour ago, Willowsmom said:

She must have known and not cared as long as the money rolled in..

I guess she figured "well, as long as I don't have to bother with him....... "

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5 hours ago, WarnerCL45 said:

For heavens sake!!  Can women stop being so dumb???

Take some responsibility.

I hope this is a joke.

I was disgusted when Polanski won the Oscar for Best Director fifteen years ago, and I'm disgusted it took this long for the Academy to expel him.  I wish they could rescind his Oscar, too.

Camille Cosby, you're a fucking asshole, and:

tumblr_m8dw5og5RB1qgwuw8o1_500.gif

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7 hours ago, WarnerCL45 said:

I guess she figured "well, as long as I don't have to bother with him....... "

Which may be a side effect she's now having to contend with via Mr. Cosby's house arrest!

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6 hours ago, Blergh said:

Which may be a side effect she's now having to contend with via Mr. Cosby's house arrest!

Bummer!  Well, that backfired, didn't it?  

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On 5/1/2018 at 11:02 PM, Vermicious Knid said:

There may not be a Nobel Prize for Literature awarded this year because the Committee is embroiled in a sexual harassment scandal over the husband of one of the members, including allegations he groped the Crown Princess of Sweden.

It is official: 2018 Nobel Prize in Literature Postponed Amid Sexual Abuse Scandal

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/world/europe/nobel-literature-swedish-academy.html

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On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:58 PM, HunterHunted said:

No. That's not what happened. TR wasn't even on set. The fight happened because someone was late on set. It could have been Dempsey; he was often late. Washington got pissed and snapped at Dempsey. He said something along the lines of "you can't treat me like you do your little f****t TR." While absolutely homophobic, Washington's focus was entirely on Dempsey. Dempsey snapped back, not in defense of TR, but of his own behavior. Washington tried to strangle Dempsey. TR freaked out when the details of the story started coming out because he was afraid he'd be outed, but Patrick Dempsey was never defending TR.

https://www.today.com/popculture/report-greys-anatomy-hunks-fight-set-2D80556035

http://www.tmz.com/2006/10/11/mcdreamy-feud-behind-the-scenes/

https://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/its-all-against-one-greys-anatomy-war/

Dempsey was having an affair with a 20-something production assistant. Pompeo was friends with Dempsey's wife. However when those higher up, like producers, found out about the affair, they told Dempsey to cut it out and moved the woman to different departments. He would not stop the affair.

I find this to be even worse regarding Washington.  I understand you are just clarifying the story.  To me for TR to be the target of a homophobic slur when he himself wasn't even around or involved in the altercation is even worse. 

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Sorry, but AFIAC, Mrs. Cosby was at the very least an accessory if not an outright accomplice  to at least part of her husband's crimes and I don't care what gender accessories and accomplices are, they,too, deserve to be called on their actions. If there were less accessories and accomplices out there, there'd be fewer criminals, IMO.

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3 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

It's bad enough women get subjected to the criminal actions of men, having women blaming women for what men to, is just so depressing.

Not to mention a lot of people seem to be making some pretty generous assumptions as to what kind of husband serial-rapist Cosby is.

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On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:26 PM, WarnerCL45 said:

For heavens sake!!  Can women stop being so dumb???

Take some responsibility.

Well two others say it was all "voluntary"

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/former-redskins-cheerleaders-defend-topless-pimped-costa-rica-trip-193931895.html

Given the reputation of the NFL in general, I find that hard to believe

They don't specifically seem to comment on if they were asked to pose topless.  If they were asked to pose topless, whether voluntary or involuntary, its wrong either way.  You can't "ask" on an employee to "volunteer" to pose topless, in any work situation. 

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22 hours ago, Blergh said:

Which may be a side effect she's now having to contend with via Mr. Cosby's house arrest!

Lets hope that he's not allowed to have any family living in the house if he does get house arrest. They have more than one property so it shouldn't be too hard to isolate him.

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Mr. Cosby is already under house arrest until the actual sentencing. I see no legal reason why none of his   family cannot live him (as much as I personally think it would be best if they let him stay entirely on his own).

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Any time women leave the country in an entertainment job (football may be sports but the cheerleaders are entertainment) they need to be cautious. There are far too many stories like this from all over the world, even with otherwise reputable companies. Should this group have known? I don't know but no woman should leave the US without a way to reach the American consulate.

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