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Hollywood's Dirty Little (Open) Secrets: Harvey Weinstein and Others Like Him

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On 2/20/2021 at 8:35 PM, Zella said:

Yeah I'm baffled by the idea that believing Woody Allen molested his adopted daughter means Mia Farrow is a saint. She can be a terrible person in her own right and Woody Allen can also be a piece of shit. That's not mutually exclusive.

I think the difficulty comes more when the terrible person is the direct victim, rather than a third party in the situation, like in the complicated story of Woody Allen and that whole family. 

I think if we're being honest with things, the more terrible someone is, the less credible they are. But when both accuser and accused are terrible, we still have to muddle through that to find the truth and can't just dismiss the accuser. And in this case, the alleged victim isn't anyone we have any reason to distrust, other than vague, weird accusations that her (arguably) somewhat terrible mother manipulated her. As if that's not somewhat unbelievable, and as if there weren't plenty of other things out there to peg Woody as a weirdo and a pervert. Which there ARE 

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14 hours ago, Trini said:

I think D'Elia has come up in this topic before: 'Chris D’Elia Issues Confessional Video On His Prior Conduct: “I Know It Looks Bad”'

I haven't watched the video but the article has some quotes.

D'Elia is this weird case for me about how sometimes we just need to go with our gut. 

Long before anything bad came out about him, I'd see him in things and just see a scuzzy, scummy, smarmy slimebag, where it mystified me why he was ever cast as anything other than an outright villain (instead he was usually a romantic lead, or at worst, the charming rogue figure). 

I guess it's unfair to assume a portrayal is reality, but with him it was a case of the portrayal conflicting with what I sensed (or at least thought I sensed) about the man underneath. 

This was what I felt about D'Elia in the past. In contrast to how I've had to think back to moments in Woody Allen's films that only came off creepy or disgusting about Woody in retrospect. So I can't say my gut is 100%. Sometimes your brain has to do the work instead...

Edited by Kromm
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1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

I don't think this yet has a sexual component, but I wouldn't doubt one is coming. This guy has never been on my radar other than tweets or comments that he's a racist asshole.

https://deadline.com/2021/02/piers-morgan-bullying-itv-letter-adeel-amini-twitter-1234698078/

But it's an example of the aggressor portraying himself a victim. 

 

Piers Morgan is a terrible, awful human being, for reasons that are partially applicable to this topic, many that are findable and provable simply by viewing his body of work, his spoken and written words. 

He's racist, sexist, passive-aggressive, aggressive-aggressive, one of the biggest bullies anywhere, and conversely also a professional victim at the same time. 

He's SO bad that any YouTube video his main current employer, ITV, posts with him in it, automatically gets comment locked. Because they know what kind of vile responses, both con and pro, there are to what he says on TV. 

That said, his mode of attack, of wounding and intimidation, is words. Those can be powerful, and damaging (see his campaign against Meghan Markle) but less overt than a lot of other things discussed here. 

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The satirical British magazine Private Eye calls Piers Morgan "Piers Moron". One of the weirdest things in the early pandemic is that Morgan was calling out people like Trump and Boris Johnson, whom he would normally support, for their failures to take appropriate action.

One of the real ironies of the whole Woody Allen-Mia Farrow thing is that he gave her most of the best parts she's had in her career, and she did most of her best work in his movies. PURPLE ROSE OF CAIRO and BROADWAY DANNY ROSE could not show her in a more different light. His work has not, IMO, been as good since the 1992 scandal.

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Piers Morgan was never anybody I paid attention to, & really didn't know anything about him, except that he was some kind of news presenter in the UK. Maybe 5 or 6 years ago, I had the TV on as background noise & he happened to be on giving an interview. He caught my attention when he said that he got all his news from twitter. All His News. He believed everything he saw on twitter. I was just flabbergasted that anyone would actually use twitter as a news source, especially someone who was in the news business. This probably explains why he's such an idiot.

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This Deadline interview makes some great points about so-called cancel culture. 

https://deadline.com/2021/02/allen-v-farrow-amy-ziering-kirby-dick-interview-woody-allen-mia-farrow-dylan-farrow-1234697245/

ZIERING: Is there outrage that Mia was canceled? I mean, where is that outrage? Post-Woody, for three decades she was canceled in the culture. She was crazy. She didn’t get any jobs, was vindictive. I don’t hear anyone saying that there was no due process for Mia. What we did for three decades, we canceled her. There was glee, and now white guys are getting called out and suddenly cancel culture. F*ck that. What on Earth?!

 

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31 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

This Deadline interview makes some great points about so-called cancel culture. 

https://deadline.com/2021/02/allen-v-farrow-amy-ziering-kirby-dick-interview-woody-allen-mia-farrow-dylan-farrow-1234697245/

ZIERING: Is there outrage that Mia was canceled? I mean, where is that outrage? Post-Woody, for three decades she was canceled in the culture. She was crazy. She didn’t get any jobs, was vindictive. I don’t hear anyone saying that there was no due process for Mia. What we did for three decades, we canceled her. There was glee, and now white guys are getting called out and suddenly cancel culture. F*ck that. What on Earth?!

 

So true. The tide shifts and suddenly actions having consequences is an outrage. 

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1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

This Deadline interview makes some great points about so-called cancel culture. 

https://deadline.com/2021/02/allen-v-farrow-amy-ziering-kirby-dick-interview-woody-allen-mia-farrow-dylan-farrow-1234697245/

ZIERING: Is there outrage that Mia was canceled? I mean, where is that outrage? Post-Woody, for three decades she was canceled in the culture. She was crazy. She didn’t get any jobs, was vindictive. I don’t hear anyone saying that there was no due process for Mia. What we did for three decades, we canceled her. There was glee, and now white guys are getting called out and suddenly cancel culture. F*ck that. What on Earth?!

 

I also really like the point they make about the argument the documentary was one-sided. Woody has told his side of the story many times and wasn’t concerned about the other side being heard. Being fair is a smoke screen for trying to silence the other side. 

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3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

This Deadline interview makes some great points about so-called cancel culture. 

https://deadline.com/2021/02/allen-v-farrow-amy-ziering-kirby-dick-interview-woody-allen-mia-farrow-dylan-farrow-1234697245/

ZIERING: Is there outrage that Mia was canceled? I mean, where is that outrage? Post-Woody, for three decades she was canceled in the culture. She was crazy. She didn’t get any jobs, was vindictive. I don’t hear anyone saying that there was no due process for Mia. What we did for three decades, we canceled her. There was glee, and now white guys are getting called out and suddenly cancel culture. F*ck that. What on Earth?!

 

That's a lie. Look at her Imdb. She worked plenty. But Allen was really the only one hiring her before anyway.

The documentary has received a cease and desist letter from Allen's publisher for excessive use of the audio version of his recent book without permission or payment. They also have been mislabeling photos. Shoddy work.

 

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55 minutes ago, bobalina said:

That's a lie. Look at her Imdb. She worked plenty. But Allen was really the only one hiring her before anyway.

The documentary has received a cease and desist letter from Allen's publisher for excessive use of the audio version of his recent book without permission or payment. They also have been mislabeling photos. Shoddy work.

 

Right...she went from leading lady to made for TV movies and voice work. There was  a definite negative effect with her career. 

Though there may be a copyright issue, that documentary is anything but shoddy work. 

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1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

Right...she went from leading lady to made for TV movies and voice work. There was  a definite negative effect with her career. 

 

Isn't that a fairly natural career progression for an older actress? And look at her career before Allen, not exactly Meryl Streep territory.

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I find the claim that "Mia was canceled in the culture" just plain weird. In the years since 1992 (when she was nearing 50, the death knell for many actresses and also adopting four? five? more kids) she's been in at least four or five movies, done Broadway plays, and regularly surfaced to repeat the abuse allegations while her son Ronan has become a high-profile journalist in an area guaranteed to keep the allegations alive in public life.

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2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

 But yet, the view of Mia as a crazy vindicative ex continues.   WHY? 

It's so sad.  Women are not believed.  I'd love to know exactly how Mia Farrow was supposed to react to finding out that one daughter had been seduced by her partner and her other daughter was being molested by that same partner  Surely if there are many wrong ways to deal with this kind of information there has to be at least one right way?  

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7 hours ago, wendyg said:

I find the claim that "Mia was canceled in the culture" just plain weird. In the years since 1992 (when she was nearing 50, the death knell for many actresses and also adopting four? five? more kids) she's been in at least four or five movies, done Broadway plays, and regularly surfaced to repeat the abuse allegations while her son Ronan has become a high-profile journalist in an area guaranteed to keep the allegations alive in public life.

Isn’t that kind of the point though? Cancel culture is being decried now when it is nothing new and has always been ineffectual. The only thing new is that the people who used to do the “canceling” are now being canceled. Mia was canceled in the same way Woody and others have been canceled. Public perception changed which resulted in some doors closing. Woody still published his book. He still made a movie last year. He still gets his version out there regularly. With Mia it was viewed as just desserts and with Woody it’s an outrage and censorship.  

Edited by Dani
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2 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

It's so sad.  Women are not believed.  I'd love to know exactly how Mia Farrow was supposed to react to finding out that one daughter had been seduced by her partner and her other daughter was being molested by that same partner  Surely if there are many wrong ways to deal with this kind of information there has to be at least one right way?  

How about pursuing  the criminal charges like she did and when it didn't get the results concentrating on her kids, getting them the help to move past the trauma if they could. !etting it fade into the past for the good I f the victims. Instead she opens Dylans wounds every chance she gets.

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19 minutes ago, Dani said:

This is effectively saying the strangers know what is best for victims. Dylan is literally telling her story right now. She is making this choice as a grown woman. No one has to believe her but it is disingenuous to couch it as concern for her well-being. Maybe we should let each victim tell us what is best for them. 

I don't know what's best for Dylan. But if what Moses said is true Mia verbally and psychologically  abused her kids as a means of control. Dylan may not have a choice as to her course now. And she most probably believes everything she says now. The McMartin victims believed too.

The reason I cannot believe this whole mess is simple. I had a cousin who accused a step father, he did jail time. It destroyed her relationship with her siblings.  30 years after he died she sat and laughed about how she lied to get rid of him. the psychiatrist who interviewed said she was tge most honest child he'd interviewed. I truly believe,  based on Mia's continual harping that whatever this started as it is now ing but her being vindictive.

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20 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

This Deadline interview makes some great points about so-called cancel culture. 

https://deadline.com/2021/02/allen-v-farrow-amy-ziering-kirby-dick-interview-woody-allen-mia-farrow-dylan-farrow-1234697245/

ZIERING: Is there outrage that Mia was canceled? I mean, where is that outrage? Post-Woody, for three decades she was canceled in the culture. She was crazy. She didn’t get any jobs, was vindictive. I don’t hear anyone saying that there was no due process for Mia. What we did for three decades, we canceled her. There was glee, and now white guys are getting called out and suddenly cancel culture. F*ck that. What on Earth?!

 

It's definitely useful to draw a line between the so-called cancel culture that social media has spawned and the systematic exclusion and blackballing of people from an industry because they've made powerful enemies.

The effects aren't even the same, because often it seems like people who are cancelled get a second chance simply because they haven't actively upset the decisionmakers. For example, Louis C.K. started a new stand up tour, releases a comedy special and gets invited to collaborate on more than one project with other established, mainstream comedians. All of this happened within three years after he was "cancelled" for being a sex pest.

This is not to say online cancel culture is a good thing, or even that it's a bad thing. As with many things, there's a lot of grey and murk. But it is not the same as Hollywood bigwigs whispering behind the scenes and agreeing not to hire someone who they see as "problematic" (someone who, often it seems, is a woman). They have the power to then influence how the media portrays that person, and it permeates into society.

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6 hours ago, bobalina said:

The reason I cannot believe this whole mess is simple. I had a cousin who accused a step father, he did jail time. It destroyed her relationship with her siblings.  30 years after he died she sat and laughed about how she lied to get rid of him. the psychiatrist who interviewed said she was tge most honest child he'd interviewed. I truly believe,  based on Mia's continual harping that whatever this started as it is now ing but her being vindictive.

Out of curiosity, what is your stance on Woody outside of Dylan’s accusations? To me even his own version makes him out to be a despicable human being. 

Edited by Dani
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Sounds like the psychiatrist needs to get a refund from whatever degree-by-mail institution that gave him his degree.

Edited by Hiyo
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10 hours ago, bobalina said:

The reason I cannot believe this whole mess is simple. I had a cousin who accused a step father, he did jail time. It destroyed her relationship with her siblings.  30 years after he died she sat and laughed about how she lied to get rid of him. the psychiatrist who interviewed said she was tge most honest child he'd interviewed. I truly believe,  based on Mia's continual harping that whatever this started as it is now ing but her being vindictive.

That has exactly nothing to do with the price of tea (Dylan Farrow) in China (being molested by Woody Allen), and to think otherwise is ridiculous.

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On 2/22/2021 at 7:29 AM, merylinkid said:

So many people think that is the only kind of domestic violence.   Well ... he never used FORCE on me.   

 

Well he never molested Dylan right in front of them, so what do they know RIGHT?   The battle lines on this one were drawn long ago.   The people who believe Allen will jump on every little nitpick to prove the story is not true.   the people who believe Dylan will be disgusted nothing ever happened to Allen.   Very few people's minds will be changed.

Jen Chaney did a review of Farrow v. Allen in it she discusses some of the problems with the original investigation that this documentary goes over.   https://www.vulture.com/article/allen-v-farrow-review-hbo-docuseries.html

 

 

Edited by Stats Queen
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6 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

This was a really disturbing article.  So much creepy, abusive behavior going on around her.

A reporter asked her about Hugh Grant's arrest for lewd conduct with a prostitute.  This happened in 1995.  She was born in 1987.  She was 8 years old.  WTF

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11 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

Mara has written several articles about growing up as a child star and how that affected her. She was lucky in that she was briefly one of the most recognisable young kids but she had good parents who protected her and that she emerged with a level head, a trusted group of friends and an adult career she enjoys. But even though she's the best case scenario a lot of what she went through sounds awful and what she saw happen to others sounds even worse. 

https://www.cracked.com/blog/7-reasons-child-stars-go-crazy-an-insiders-perspective/

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12 hours ago, Jaded said:

Unfortunatley they updated your article after you posted.  It is not felonies but misdemeanors.  He's not going to see any jail time.  This is from the updated article:

"While Mr. Bryan was charged with additional crimes, including two class C felonies, it is in the interest of closure for the victim and in recognition of the backlog of cases we have due to COVID restrictions that make me believe this resolution is in the interest of justice," the D.A. tells PEOPLE.

Bullshit.  He tried to strangle a woman.  But why prosecute.  It's only a woman.  The DA is a POS.

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9 hours ago, Macbeth said:

in recognition of the backlog of cases we have due to COVID restrictions

This right there is the reason.   The courts are horribly backed up because they haven't had jury trials in almost a year.   The cases are piling up.   DAs are offering deals they never would have offered before Covid.    Although Mr. Bryan is not in jail because he couldn't make bail so there was no rush to get THIS case over and done with.   There are people in jail on MISDEMEANOR non-violent crimes who can't get heard.   They don't want to plead guilty to a crime they didn't commit -- so they sit.   Meanwhile this guy gets a soft deal.

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1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

DAs are offering deals they never would have offered before Covid. 

The deal he got was not rare pre-Covid. It does point to the crazy inequalities in our just systems but people with his circumstances and similar charges have been getting similar forever.

Edited by biakbiak
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Waiting for her to offer to fix the judge and prosecuting attorneys up with some really hot pre-teens.

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1 minute ago, wendyg said:

John Geddert, coach of the 2012 USA Olympic gymnastics team, charged with two dozen crimes including human trafficking, sexual assault, and running a criminal enterprise: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/feb/25/john-geddert-twistars-gymnastics-charged

IIRC (and I might be mixing the two documentaries up), this guy's involvement / general sleaziness was covered somewhat in the HBO Nassar doc (At the Heart of Gold), but not as much in the more recent Netflix one (Athlete A).

Glad to see him arrested and charged. Sorry for his victims. 

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3 hours ago, kieyra said:

IIRC (and I might be mixing the two documentaries up), this guy's involvement / general sleaziness was covered somewhat in the HBO Nassar doc (At the Heart of Gold), but not as much in the more recent Netflix one (Athlete A).

Glad to see him arrested and charged. Sorry for his victims. 

NBC just reported he killed himself. 

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Re: John Geddert

24 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

NBC just reported he killed himself. 

I don't know whether to say "good riddance to bad rubbish" or deride him as a filthy goddamned coward.

Ah, fuck it, both can be true. Rest in misery, John Geddert, you piece of shit. 

Edited by Wiendish Fitch
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