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Hollywood's Dirty Little (Open) Secrets: Harvey Weinstein and Others Like Him

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14 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Again, dude fuck outta here with that shit. Cosby LIVED to judge other young black men/comedians when he was still sitting high on his perch. 

So much this!  So many young black comedians have talked about Bill calling them out and trying to douse them with respectability politics.  If you read about a lot of the young black comedians and who their influences were, a lot of them don't name check Bill.  Most of them name check Eddie and before him Richard Pryor.  Even George Carlin gets love by YBCs before Bill.   

There is an interview from 2004 with Bernie Mac, I believe it was in the aftermath of Bill's infamous 'Pound Cake' speech, where the interviewer mentioned that Bernie had cited Bill as an influence and did Bernie agree that it is his responsibility to act as a role model for the black community.  Bernie said straight up 'No.  That was Bill Cosby's way of dealing with things.  I've seen a lot of comedians go on stage and say one thing and do another.  I call that a Lie."  Bernie knew.  I believe that they all knew.  As someone mentioned after Hannibal Burress' stand up in Philly that finally prompted the entire Cosby thing. --  people had been saying stuff for years, but it seemed that was the moment that everybody else started to listen.

As for Bill's response to Eddie, he should've just sat there and ate his prison food.

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17 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Thompson doesn't owe Cosby jack shit.

The most fucked up part is even if Keenan or Eddie or anyone did actually owe their entire career 100% to Bill Cosby it doesn't give him a free pass on being a rapist nor does it mean those people aren't allowed to call him out for being a rapist.

People are complicated and you can still realize what someone might have done for you that was good while at the same time realize something else they did was extremely terrible. It's not a one or the other thing.

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Isn't the belief that all African-American comedians are compelled to forever be kowtowing to Mr. Cosby and not allowed to object on him dumping on them a bit like a dictatorship if not slavery?

 It would be apt for the fellow prisoners at the place Mr. Cosby has been detained to  taunt him with 'Who's America's dad, now?' 

 

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4 hours ago, Blergh said:

 It would be apt for the fellow prisoners at the place Mr. Cosby has been detained to  taunt him with 'Who's America's dad, now?' 

Oh, what I wouldn't give to see a video of that (and maybe Cosby sulking over it like a little bitch).

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8 hours ago, Blergh said:

Isn't the belief that all African-American comedians are compelled to forever be kowtowing to Mr. Cosby and not allowed to object on him dumping on them a bit like a dictatorship if not slavery?

Yep. And if Cosby hadn't "broken the barrier" someone else would have. It was just timing. No one should be forced to overlook that this man is a scumbag just because he happened to be in the right thing at the right time to win an award. 

The worst part of all this is, his insistence that he is some great black champion while being a convicted rapist is beyond troubling when you think about how racists like to think all black men are, violent, drug dealers and rapists, so yay, Bill, way to perpetuate the worst possible stereotypes you asshole. 

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26 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Damn straight. You know who also broke barriers? Sidney Poitier, and we've never read about him drugging and raping women.

 

Preach!  I wish I could like this 1,000x.

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4 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Damn straight. You know who also broke barriers? Sidney Poitier, and we've never read about him drugging and raping women.

 

And Nipsy Russell, George Kirby, Dick Gregory and Godfrey Cambridge. All of whom beat Cosby to TV. And Mr. Cambridge beat him to movie stardom.

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..and Dick Gregory did more for social change, justice and racial harmony than Cosby did in his career. I always thought it was strange that even those who worked on his show..in retrospectives always referred to him as "Mr. Cosby"...as if he was above all of them and they owed him....

Quote

 

 

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18 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

..and Dick Gregory did more for social change, justice and racial harmony than Cosby did in his career. I always thought it was strange that even those who worked on his show..in retrospectives always referred to him as "Mr. Cosby"...as if he was above all of them and they owed him....

 

I imagine him as the kind of person who wouldn't respond to anything else.

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24 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I imagine him as the kind of person who wouldn't respond to anything else.

He insisted on being called Dr. Cosby. Even though that PHD was barely real.

Edited by bobalina
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2 hours ago, stonehaven said:

...and Garrison Keillor is trying for a comeback with a Twin Cities publication as his tool...and a writer for said publication wasn't having any of it...so, she quit..

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/msp-magazine-columnist-quits-over-upcoming-garrison-keillor-story?fbclid=IwAR02xRkZzb1q6afolHFUmlrjK7indGNR8WEBlWxxyVTlONvc2m31mjuURwI

Good for her, and I'm grateful she spoke up. But it's enraging that this happened and the response of the editors is execrable.

I hope their subscribers cancel en masse. That's the only thing that will make change. When it stops being profitable to tolerate or glorify bad behavior, suddenly people will stop making excuses and this crap will stop.

Edited by possibilities
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Another Kevin Spacey connection:

Norway’s Ari Behn, ex-royal and Kevin Spacey accuser, dies by suicide

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2019/12/norway-ari-behn-dies-by-suicide/

Norwegian author Ari Behn, the ex-husband of Princess Märtha Louise and one of those accusing actor Kevin Spacey of sexual assault, has died in an apparent suicide, his family says. He was 47 years old.

Behn made international headlines in December 2017 when he claimed that actor Kevin Spacey had groped him at the afterparty for a Nobel Peace Prize concert in 2007. Behn said the two were talking for about 5 minutes before Spacey put his hand under the table and touched him.

“We had a great talk. He sat right beside me,” Behn was quoted as saying in a radio interview. “After five minutes he said, ‘hey, let’s go outside and have a cigarette.’ Then he puts his hand under the table and grabs me by the balls.” Behn said he brushed it off by telling him: “Er, maybe later.”

Behn’s suicide comes just a day after Spacey re-emerged on social media with a video in his ‘House of Cards’ character, telling viewers it had been a “pretty good year.” Spacey had previously been charged in the alleged groping of a young man at a bar in Massachusetts, but the charges were dropped in July. A second case in California was closed on October 29 following the death of another accuser.

In December 2017, Behn alleged that he was among a growing number of men who had been sexually assaulted by Kevin Spacey. He accused Spacey of groping his genitals in 2007, at a nightclub during the afterparty for the Nobel Peace Prize concert.

Edited by MikaelaArsenault
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16 minutes ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Behn’s suicide comes just a day after Spacey re-emerged on social media with a video in his ‘House of Cards’ character, telling viewers it had been a “pretty good year.”

I heard about that. Didn't he do something similar a year or so ago? Who the hell is allowing him to make and post these videos?

Note to Spacey, Cosby, Weinstein, et al: Nobody wants to hear from any of you with your thoughts about anything. Just shut the hell up and go. away. 

Very sad news about Behn. Thoughts and condolences to his loved ones. 

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1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

I heard about that. Didn't he do something similar a year or so ago? Who the hell is allowing him to make and post these videos?

Note to Spacey, Cosby, Weinstein, et al: Nobody wants to hear from any of you with your thoughts about anything. Just shut the hell up and go. away. 

Very sad news about Behn. Thoughts and condolences to his loved ones. 

Yes.

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On 12/23/2019 at 11:09 AM, Blergh said:

Would it be terrible of me to admit that back in the day I agreed with Mr. Cosby about vulgarity in comics

No.   Because you can hate what Cosby did and still find other comedians vulgar.    It's not an either/or situation.    What Richard Pryor said is relevant.   If you don't find it funny, you don't find it funny.   Just because someone else who was a horrible person also doesn't find it funny doesn't invalidate how you personally felt about it.   

 

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1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

No.   Because you can hate what Cosby did and still find other comedians vulgar.    It's not an either/or situation.    What Richard Pryor said is relevant.   If you don't find it funny, you don't find it funny.   Just because someone else who was a horrible person also doesn't find it funny doesn't invalidate how you personally felt about it.   

 

Merylinkid,

 

 Thanks for that! I guess I have a certain amount of pride in being able to size up other folks and while I like being pleasantly surprised when someone winds up being better than my initial perception (e.g. Tiffany Haddish who seems far more empathetic, kind and deep than I had thought via my first impression), I am somewhat angry that someone who I had looked up to and admired  from childhood turned out not only to have been a career criminal but also the characteristics I had admired had turned out to be a mere mask and a lie to cover for said criminality. 

I'm far from perfect but I just feel like kicking myself for not recognizing that Mr. Cosby had dissed others' eye-splinters while totally ignoring (and believing no one else would notice) the plank in his OWN eye.  So ,while I can't say I've become fan of Mr. Murphy's more raunchy comedy bits, overall I've become a fan of his performances over time- and while I know he's not a saint, he doesn't seem to have been a criminal by any means.  

 So, oh yeah, I was happy to see the cathartic triumph of Mr. Murphy over Mr. Cosby's hubris re 'Who's America's dad now?' 

 

P.S. And, on a shallow note, I also find it fitting that those 30 odd years since Mr. Cosby's initial attempt to crush Mr. Murphy, Mr. Cosby's face  has shown the world what an old, ugly, decrepit individual he always was on the inside while Mr. Murphy has merely become a more rugged but astonishingly youthful Adonis over time. Mr. Cosby must TRULY be writhing when having to compare Mr. Murphy's appearance   to his own. 

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2 hours ago, Blergh said:

P.S. And, on a shallow note, I also find it fitting that those 30 odd years since Mr. Cosby's initial attempt to crush Mr. Murphy, Mr. Cosby's face  has shown the world what an old, ugly, decrepit individual he always was on the inside while Mr. Murphy has merely become a more rugged but astonishingly youthful Adonis over time. Mr. Cosby must TRULY be writhing when having to compare Mr. Murphy's appearance   to his own. 

LOL, talk about The Picture of Dorian Grey.

Eddie's no saint by any means, but his worst most asshole moments don't even begin to compare to Cosby's degeneracy and hypocrisy.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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10 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Eddie's no saint by any means, but his worst most asshole moments don't even begin to compare to Cosby's degeneracy and hypocrisy.

And more importantly, Eddie never presented himself as and suggested he was a saint. He'd be the first to fully own and admit his shitty behavior and choices in the past. As the poster above noted, renewed interest in Cosby's crimes came about when Hannibal Buress put him on blast because once again, Cosby was going around playing arbiter of right and wrong and judging many young black men. 

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23 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

LOL, talk about The Picture of Dorian Grey.

Eddie's no saint by any means, but his worst most asshole moments don't even begin to compare to Cosby's degeneracy and hypocrisy.

Yep- and it's Medusa Cosby himself turning to stone after being confronted for decades with Adonis Murphy's vibrant reflection. Ugly sure lies Mr. Cosby's bones! 

Edited by Blergh · Reason: clarity
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4 hours ago, Blergh said:

P.S. And, on a shallow note, I also find it fitting that those 30 odd years since Mr. Cosby's initial attempt to crush Mr. Murphy, Mr. Cosby's face  has shown the world what an old, ugly, decrepit individual he always was on the inside while Mr. Murphy has merely become a more rugged but astonishingly youthful Adonis over time. Mr. Cosby must TRULY be writhing when having to compare Mr. Murphy's appearance   to his own. 

Right? Eddie Murphy has aged beautifully. Mr. Murphy, just keep doing what you're doing.

Cosby's inside, on the other hand, has definitely caught up with his outside. Mr. Cosby, take some pound cake and ram it up your moldering ass.

8 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Note to Spacey, Cosby, Weinstein, et al: Nobody wants to hear from any of you with your thoughts about anything. Just shut the hell up and go. away. 

 

Again, I say... RIGHT?! Even when they do go away, they won't. go. away.

Cockroaches have nothing on these assholes.

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I wouldn't apply matters of appearance in these two cases more generally, though. For example, of comedians George Wallace and Kevin Hart, my choice for more handsome of the two has nothing to do with which I'd rather be entertained by and which I wish would just go away.

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2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And more importantly, Eddie never presented himself as and suggested he was a saint. He'd be the first to fully own and admit his shitty behavior and choices in the past.

Which was kind of the whole basis for Eddie's SNL joke how he can't believe for all the crazy shit he has done it's not him in prison and Cosby doing family friendly stuff.  It was kind of making fun of his past as much as it was making fun of Cosby's current situation.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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2 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Remember Mike Isabella, who lost his whole restaurant empire because of sexual harassment? Quietly cooking in a Sarasota bistro. And the female owner is not concerned with his reputation, even excusing it as just part of the industry. We need to get rid of the enablers as well.

Reading that made my blood boil. She is every bit as bad as him. Particularly that part where she justifies hiring him by saying all her other employees signed off on it. Her poor employees. 

Edited by Dani
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I dunno, I kind of agree with this “What, the guy is never supposed to work again?” Breslin asks.  He's paid a price for what he did, by some standards a pretty steep price.  I don't have a problem giving him a chance.  If he's stupid enough not to have learned his lesson it's probably the last chance he'll ever get.

Edited by PennyPlain
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On 12/26/2019 at 3:02 PM, PennyPlain said:

I dunno, I kind of agree with this “What, the guy is never supposed to work again?” Breslin asks.  He's paid a price for what he did, by some standards a pretty steep price.  I don't have a problem giving him a chance.  If he's stupid enough not to have learned his lesson it's probably the last chance he'll ever get.

That was the least problematic thing she said. It was the litany of other excuses and denials that are the problem. She came up with so many excuses it was hard to keep track. It can’t be that bad because his wife didn’t leave him, he didn’t try to sleep with anyone, it’s to be expected, he was an addict but now he rarely drinks, her staff is fine with it and she trusts her intuition over the accuser.

I really don’t have a problem with giving someone another chance but that only works if there is someone to hold him accountable. Based on what she said I doubt she is that person. 

Edited by Dani
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I hope he learned from his mistakes, but given this quote in the linked article, I'm not so sure if he was just acting contrite or if he really does get it:

Quote

Months later, defiant once again, Isabella blamed his company’s Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization on “bad press.”

This Washington Post article has more info.

His restaurant Graffiato was near a place I worked years ago and it was good, but DC isn't hurting for good places to eat. I don't mind him making a living, but that owner's comments are pretty tone deaf. There's a way to say "I'm giving him a second chance" without basically saying "I believe him over his supposed victims" (which is how it reads to me).

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1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Surely there are people qualified as chefs who aren't abusive schmucks?

One would hope so, but when I was young and worked in kitchen prep at a fancy restaurant of the five chefs working there, only 2 were not 'abusive schmucks.' It seems many chefs, especially in the higher echelons of restaurants, rule like they are kings. 

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On 12/24/2019 at 10:02 PM, stonehaven said:

...and Garrison Keillor is trying for a comeback with a Twin Cities publication as his tool...and a writer for said publication wasn't having any of it...so, she quit..

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/msp-magazine-columnist-quits-over-upcoming-garrison-keillor-story?fbclid=IwAR02xRkZzb1q6afolHFUmlrjK7indGNR8WEBlWxxyVTlONvc2m31mjuURwI

Good for her, and I'm glad she did something about it and spoke up.

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16 hours ago, free2think said:

One would hope so, but when I was young and worked in kitchen prep at a fancy restaurant of the five chefs working there, only 2 were not 'abusive schmucks.' It seems many chefs, especially in the higher echelons of restaurants, rule like they are kings. 

True. My dad left the restaurant industry in DC because he found it so toxic. He worked in construction instead and told me how glad he was that there wasn't constant swearing. I asked him if he missed working in restaurants and he told me he still had nightmares about it 15 years later.

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On 12/26/2019 at 9:31 AM, Blergh said:

I'm far from perfect but I just feel like kicking myself for not recognizing that Mr. Cosby had dissed others' eye-splinters while totally ignoring (and believing no one else would notice) the plank in his OWN eye

There are thousands upon thousands of us who experienced the same thing. Back in the day when he was “America’s Dad” he came across as a wonderful human. I never saw anything to the contrary back in the 80s and 90s (and the 70s for us old ones). 
 

I did and do feel awful that I did t believe his earliest accusers, because it made no sense. If we had social media back then.... (social media is both bad and good...)

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I remember the Chicken Heart That Ate New York City. That's how old I am.

I think that a lot of people get away with things because of the hush up. I'm sure there's even more than we know, because it's endemic to our fucked up society that for ages and ages it's been allowed to happen.

We just have to chip away at it, and it will take a while. But I'm sure we've all admired people for their public behavior, unaware of what they were doing out of view.

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5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't quite get it, if rape is a hate crime isn't every violent crime a hate crime?

No. Specifically the ruling was that rape inherently violates New York City’s Victims of Gender-Motivated Violence Law and the act alone was enough to prove a gender-based animus. 

It’s a huge ruling but it could be a double edged sword because now the plaintiff does not need additional accusers to prove malice against women. If that results in preventing those accusations from being brought up during the trial it could severely hurt the plaintiff’s case.

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1 hour ago, Dani said:

No. Specifically the ruling was that rape inherently violates New York City’s Victims of Gender-Motivated Violence Law and the act alone was enough to prove a gender-based animus. 

It’s a huge ruling but it could be a double edged sword because now the plaintiff does not need additional accusers to prove malice against women. If that results in preventing those accusations from being brought up during the trial it could severely hurt the plaintiff’s case.

So does that mean if a person were to rape both men and women it wouldn't be a hate crime? The thing I was more thinking about was how most violently criminals are probably going to logically target one gender or the other. Whether they are a domestic abuser, a purse snatcher, someone who picks fights at bars or a gang member who shoots other gang members.

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1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

So does that mean if a person were to rape both men and women it wouldn't be a hate crime?

I would think so but that would be an interesting argument to see someone make. 

 

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The thing I was more thinking about was how most violently criminals are probably going to logically target one gender or the other. Whether they are a domestic abuser, a purse snatcher, someone who picks fights at bars or a gang member who shoots other gang members.

It might apply to domestic abuse but I can’t see the ruling stretching to any of the others crimes listed. For one thing the the law in question applies to civil cases.

More importantly the defendant in the case conceded that rape and sexual assault are "because of gender or on the basis of gender." The only point of contention was if the accusation met the legal requirement of being "due, at least in part, to an animus based on the victim's gender" and the legal definition of animus.

The court decided that since the defendant admitted that rape is a gender-based it inherently includes some animus based on the victim’s gender.

Edited by Dani
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16 hours ago, possibilities said:

I remember the Chicken Heart That Ate New York City. That's how old I am.

I think that a lot of people get away with things because of the hush up. I'm sure there's even more than we know, because it's endemic to our fucked up society that for ages and ages it's been allowed to happen.

We just have to chip away at it, and it will take a while. But I'm sure we've all admired people for their public behavior, unaware of what they were doing out of view.

Chicken Heart is the funniest thing ever. And now I feel disloyal to human kind listening to it.

May Cosby rot in hell.

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On 12/26/2019 at 6:02 PM, PennyPlain said:

I dunno, I kind of agree with this “What, the guy is never supposed to work again?” Breslin asks.  He's paid a price for what he did, by some standards a pretty steep price.  I don't have a problem giving him a chance.  If he's stupid enough not to have learned his lesson it's probably the last chance he'll ever get.

Agreed, but apparently redemption is only for select people.

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I'd prefer it go to people who seem genuinely remorseful or at least take responsibility for their actions and the consequences thereof.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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Harvey Weinstein's trial is underway and his publicist is sending journalists a powerpoint entitled "The Proper Narrative for Addressing the Harvey Weinstein Case" that is, according to this article, full of nonsense and apparently left in notes from the drafting process

And the always effective he didn't rape every single woman he met defense:

Quote

“We hope you will consider the fact that a large number of women with whom HW worked on a regular basis reported nothing close to a sexual assault,”

 

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Gee, by that logic, all the serial killers and rapists out there who were married and didn't kill or rape their wives must be innocent, too, then. 

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