Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
Drogo

Hollywood's Dirty Little (Open) Secrets: Harvey Weinstein and Others Like Him

Recommended Posts

I'm never sad to hear about a pedophile or rapist dying, but I'm not exactly happy right now. Epstein's victims deserved justice and the conspiracy theories are drawing all the focus now.

Look, pedophiles are notoriously unpopular in prison. They get beat up all the time and they are even killed for their crimes. Epstein was almost 70. Many of his most powerful friends have already taken big hits themselves, there is a ton of evidence against him, and prison wasn't going to be particularly enjoyable. It's hardly surprising that he chose to kill himself rather than go through a trial he stood a very good chance of losing. It also had, for him I'm sure, the added benefit of screwing over his victims one last time.

I don't believe for a second it was a hit. What would be the point? The NDAs many people were forced to sign are no longer valid and now more people can testify about what they witnessed, all the other witnesses who didn't have NDAs are still alive, all the civil cases are still active, and many more people are being investigated. If killing Epstein was supposed to stop anything whoever ordered the hit is dumb af. It's all still going to come out, we just won't get to see if Epstein eventually confesses or watch him get hauled off to prison for, hopefully, the rest of his life.

  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post

3 minutes ago, slf said:

I don't believe for a second it was a hit. What would be the point? The NDAs many people were forced to sign are no longer valid and now more people can testify about what they witnessed, all the other witnesses who didn't have NDAs are still alive, all the civil cases are still active, and many more people are being investigated. If killing Epstein was supposed to stop anything whoever ordered the hit is dumb af. It's all still going to come out, we just won't get to see if Epstein eventually confesses or watch him get hauled off to prison for, hopefully, the rest of his life.

Exactly. Killing him isn't stopping a damned thing. The ball is rolling. Everyone keeps saying he didn't do this himself. This is true, so silencing him doesn't mean shit. There are still plenty of people out there who know what happened. Names have already been leaked. His death is not going to stop anything. 

  • Like 11
  • Useful 3

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

Exactly. Killing him isn't stopping a damned thing. 

Unless there's something really big that nobody knows about yet, & he was going to use that as a bargaining chip & whoever else is involved knew it. That said, I don't believe it's murder.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I cannot speak for anyone else but no, my original comment had nothing to do with the idea that a whole slew of people were paid off to cover his murder because as you noted, an investigation hasn't even happened yet. My comment was solely on my suspicion that he may have been murdered. If an investigation suggests he wasn't, then okay.

My point was to dismiss the notion that he could have been murdered as wild conspiracy when we know this man ran an international sex trafficking ring that served the rich and powerful for years was a bit odd to me.

Again I am not saying it is a fact Epstein was murdered. Obviously I wasn't there and as I said in a previous post, it would not be the least bit surprising to me that someone as awful as him would take the coward's way out. However, all I'm saying is that it also would not surprise me if he was murdered because too many very powerful people with a lot to lose stood to go down if Epstein talked. 

I just can't see anyone taking the chance of making it so obvious, and I don't believe that some of them have hit men on speed dial, as a few of my friends like to think. 

I think that it's possible he convinced someone to leave him alone with what he needed, but that's as far as I go. I don't think he was murdered. I just couldn't believe that we were hearing that powerful people would have a bad weekend, and then this happens. 

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I tend towards the simplest explanation makes the most sense. This selfish, cowardly rich guy finally realized he wasn't getting out of it this time and didn't want to face the music. When his fake suicide attempt didn't get him put in a position to escape he realized it was over. 

I am just glad this person no longer exists and I hope his death helps focus the investigation on the rest of those assholes, now that their scapegoat is gone. 

This is what I think, too. His money couldn't buy him out of this one, his attorneys who got him his sweet deal in the past, are now having to deal with public outrage (and I think I saw Dershowitz arguing for the legal consenting age to be lowered? Ugh!! no shame). He wasn't going to get away with it this time. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

Thanks for this comment (and my sympathies for going through something like this yourself).

I'm intrigued by your last paragraph. I sometimes read Ken Levine's blog - he was a writer/head writer for a lot of big shows, like MASH, Cheers, Frasier and The Simpsons - and by all accounts he is, as he himself might put it, a mensch and has had several women writers attest to his character and support of them over the years.

Yet he is a big advocate of "no holds barred" writers' rooms, where literally anything goes in terms of what's said, on the grounds that stifling thoughts is what prohibits free thinking and creativity. I don't doubt he's sincere. But for me that is pretty much a first-class ticket to facilitating racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and all kinds of stereotypes and prejudices. It echoes your last point, that the creative arts are probably the last industry to deliberately cultivate and champion these attitudes -the other industries at least have to pay lip service to the idea that they are attempting to weed this stuff out.

This is where PrimeTimer needs an "😠" option in its responses. That fucking rat bastard got off too easily.

I normally don't proscribe to conspiracy theories, and I really hope this is a case of him taking himself out and not people silencing him because they have a hope of getting away with it if he dies before naming names.

But as it appears a number of right-wing politicians, left-wing politicians, royal family members, and prominent businesspeople (and probably a few religious leaders too) apparently raped and violated powerless underaged kids and women (probably a few boys/men too for the Kevin Spacey types) for years and years thanks to a coalition of putrid fucktard procurers, with only a few rumours floating around to rain on their parade: I don't have an issue thinking someone had enough clout to silence him before he started naming names.

I just hope Epstein was enough of a rat bastard to have an "in the event of my death" final whistle blow that would bring everything to light, to bring the entire structure down with him if he were struck down. Not out of some sense of justice, mind - no one with even a smidgen of moral conscience would have done what he did - but just a desire to ensure the other fucking rat bastards don't get away with their crimes at his expense.

Twitter posters mentioned Ghislane Maxwell as someone who's still alive, to be questioned. 

This article says that his death could make it easier to bring others to justice:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/epsteins-friends-just-lost-any-chance-of-having-penthouse-evidence-tossed-by-courts-heres-why/

  • Like 6
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, Anela said:

Twitter posters mentioned Ghislane Maxwell as someone who's still alive, to be questioned. 

This article says that his death could make it easier to bring others to justice:

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/08/epsteins-friends-just-lost-any-chance-of-having-penthouse-evidence-tossed-by-courts-heres-why/

I wish this made me feel more confident:

Quote

The reason is that Epstein was the only person who had legal standing to sue the investigators trying to comb through the evidence in his mansions and penthouses, including videotapes of young girls and documents that may mention the names of people who were at his properties on specific dates. Had Epstein lived, and made it to trial, his attorneys could have filed motions to throw out that evidence. Now, however, no one has standing to put the brakes on the investigation.

What investigation?  The federal investigation into Epstein can't continue since there is no Epstein anymore.  Personally, I don't believe the feds will go after anyone else because, even when they are on tape getting happy endings like Robert Kraft, nothing much happens to the johns.

  • Like 8
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I wish this made me feel more confident:

What investigation?  The federal investigation into Epstein can't continue since there is no Epstein anymore.  Personally, I don't believe the feds will go after anyone else because, even when they are on tape getting happy endings like Robert Kraft, nothing much happens to the johns.

Into the investigation into who all was involved. Epstein wasn't the only person running the ring there were others and of course his clients. Their not just going to stop searching his house and stuff because he's dead they will continue to go through all of it. But because its was his house and evidence against him his lawyers could always try to find loopholes to get it tossed out. That's something the others don't have because the tapes, names and information was found in someone else's house.

Although even with whatever they find and I know their going to find a lot of evidence against others. I still have that worry too. Johns rarely do go to jail like with Kraft even in his case has mentioned trafficking. But not just him. So many powerful and rich men get away scot free in cases like this or even much worse even when they do have a lot of damning evidences. R. Kelly was found not guilty even though there was a tape. I keep praying they won't stop and actually arrest and convict them. I really want them too. Their victims deserve justice. But we've seen way too often them walking away scot-free or with sweet deals.

Edited by andromeda331
  • Like 7
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post

I really don't know what to make about the Epstein death. All of you have made really good points. I tend to believe more that once he realized his money wasn't going to get him out of this mess, he took the coward's way out. I hope all his victims take heart in knowing that he will not hurt them or anyone else ever again...and sue his estate for all it's worth.

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

These girls are never going to see justice. This whole story died along with Jeffrey. Nobody now is going to be in a rush to review the evidence & talk with these girls.I have a feeling the evidence in this case tapes and all will end up in backlog just like the thousands of rape kits each year. They were hoping that Jeffrey would name names & do their jobs for them but he's not here to do that. They aren't going to want to take on some of the most rich and powerful men. I'll be curious to see what Julie K Brown (the journalist who made this all possible) does next with this story. I really hope she stays with it but I could see her bosses saying it's a dead story because Jeffrey is no longer alive. 

  • Like 2
  • Sad 9

Share this post


Link to post

Even if law enforcement doesn't, or isn't able to, further the investigation the way it should be done, I can easily see somebody in the press keeping on this story. And I can definitely see individual investigators who actually genuinely care about making sure all involved pay the price doing their damndest to keep on this case, too. 

I dunno. In the era we're in now, I just find it hard to believe this story will go back under the rug and stay there. Even if they don't get everyone involved in these crimes, I can see a few notable names going down. 

Regarding the talk of conspiracy theories, I guess one other reason I'm hesitant to buy into any of them right now is because I am just so damn sick and tired of conspiracies running so rampant nowadays. Obviously, of course, conspiracy theories are nothing new in this world, but when we've got people politicizing them as we do, when we've got official fricking leaders of this country echoing some of the worst ones....it just makes me want to run from any talk of them at all. I can understand, in and of itself, why people think there could be a conspiracy to silence Epstein here. And I have no doubt whatsoever there are some powerful people involved in these evil crimes that would very much love to try and squash this story in any way they can. 

But I also want to just try and keep the focus on getting all the facts out there, for the victims' sake and for society's sake in general. I feel like all the conspiracy talk that's going on out there is just going to make it all the harder to actually get to the bottom of any of this, or nab any of the people involved. This case is already difficult enough as it is. I just hope at the end of the day, whatever happens going forward, the facts will speak for themselves. 

(And I'm speaking in a general sense here, not targeting this at anyone here or anything like that.)

  • Like 14

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Even if law enforcement doesn't, or isn't able to, further the investigation the way it should be done, I can easily see somebody in the press keeping on this story. And I can definitely see individual investigators who actually genuinely care about making sure all involved pay the price doing their damndest to keep on this case, too. 

I dunno. In the era we're in now, I just find it hard to believe this story will go back under the rug and stay there. Even if they don't get everyone involved in these crimes, I can see a few notable names going down. 

Regarding the talk of conspiracy theories, I guess one other reason I'm hesitant to buy into any of them right now is because I am just so damn sick and tired of conspiracies running so rampant nowadays. Obviously, of course, conspiracy theories are nothing new in this world, but when we've got people politicizing them as we do, when we've got official fricking leaders of this country echoing some of the worst ones....it just makes me want to run from any talk of them at all. I can understand, in and of itself, why people think there could be a conspiracy to silence Epstein here. And I have no doubt whatsoever there are some powerful people involved in these evil crimes that would very much love to try and squash this story in any way they can. 

But I also want to just try and keep the focus on getting all the facts out there, for the victims' sake and for society's sake in general. I feel like all the conspiracy talk that's going on out there is just going to make it all the harder to actually get to the bottom of any of this, or nab any of the people involved. This case is already difficult enough as it is. I just hope at the end of the day, whatever happens going forward, the facts will speak for themselves. 

(And I'm speaking in a general sense here, not targeting this at anyone here or anything like that.)

I completely agree with you!!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Regarding the talk of conspiracy theories, I guess one other reason I'm hesitant to buy into any of them right now is because I am just so damn sick and tired of conspiracies running so rampant nowadays. Obviously, of course, conspiracy theories are nothing new in this world, but when we've got people politicizing them as we do, when we've got official fricking leaders of this country echoing some of the worst ones....it just makes me want to run from any talk of them at all. I can understand, in and of itself, why people think there could be a conspiracy to silence Epstein here. And I have no doubt whatsoever there are some powerful people involved in these evil crimes that would very much love to try and squash this story in any way they can. 

I am absolutely not a conspiracy theorist, and find most of them silly and easily disprovable if people just do proper research (using credible sources), but this one just seems very fishy to me.

There are too many very wealthy people who were involved with him, with too much to lose. And the more we learn about the circumstances, the harder it is to believe there was no foul play. This is a man who enticed the rich and powerful into unlawful activities, and likely had knowledge and evidence of everything his friends did. Getting away from the big, splashy names that we know about - Trump, Clinton, Prince Andrew, Alan Dershowitz - there were probably a dozen more that we have no clue were involved. And I'm sure they'd very much like to keep it that way.

Epstein alive would spill the beans. He'd bring the whole thing into the open because he'd have no reason not to. With him dead, it's now up to the prosecutors as to which names and which stories get out. And the man with ultimate control over what happens, William Barr, is a man who played a central role in covering up Iran-Contra, and in attempting to cover up the Mueller Report, and who had a personal link to Epstein through his father (who hired Epstein to work as an unqualified teacher).

Let's just say, if he killed himself, then it was the best possible outcome for all of the people he was involved with.

Edited by Danny Franks
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

This is a man who enticed the rich and powerful into unlawful activities, and likely had knowledge and evidence of everything his friends did.

But the evidence still exists. the only way his death destroys the evidence is if the killer knew where it was. If the killer knew that there was no reason to kill him, just go get the evidence and destroy it while he's locked away. He rants and raves and with no evidence to support him he just looks like he's trying to point fingers to get out of this mess. 

I still don't see why anyone would waste their time killing him. It solved nothing besides being the only way to assure he never gets out of jail and can never hurt anyone again. 

I don't see this going away. With him dead the victims and those who feel for them are going to want someone to pay. People want blood. Everyone knows it wasn't just him. It is too late to put this toothpaste back in the tube. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
52 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I still don't see why anyone would waste their time killing him. It solved nothing besides being the only way to assure he never gets out of jail and can never hurt anyone again. 

Plus he only went behind bars in early July.  Anyone desperate enough to hire a killer had plenty of opportunity to have him killed before he went to jail.  Why wait? 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Mindthinkr said:

So it blatantly didn’t look like a murder. 

And, yet, here we are, all speculating about what happened.  I think it would've been far easier to rig an 'accidental' death prior to his incarceration than to get to him in prison to fake a suicide.  Buying off cops to look the other way at the jail would be far more expensive and far more likely to result in the perp's arrest than arranging for an untimely car accident.

  • Like 9
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post

Unless the supposed murderer was a complete idiot he would have to know the kind of scrutiny a high profile suicide would come under.  Far easier to arrange for a car "accident".   But then the true hallmark of all the best conspiracy theories is how complicated they are, how many extra players end up being involved and, in short, how much trouble the perpetrators go to do their evil deeds.

Edited by Homily
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

If the conspiracy theory of foul play has a bit of truth to it, it could have simply been knowing that he was suicidal, paying off people to take him off suicide watch, turn off the cameras, stop checking on him regularly and hoping that with all of that, he'd succeed.  No murder involved, just paying the right people to look start looking the other way.

Edited by Shannon L.
  • Like 11
  • Useful 3

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah. If people get pink-slipped or otherwise censured over the lapses in oversight at the jail for this, I hope journalists keep checking back on them for a few years to see if they suddenly start living beyond their means or get cushy jobs that make no sense for their employment histories. That would be a hypothetical money trail worth examining under a microscope.

  • Like 7
  • Useful 3

Share this post


Link to post

Something that hasn't been examined re this whole Epstein deal is this: where did he find these underage apparent victims and how much did their parents/guardians know what was going on and when? Unless these were all runaways, it's hard to believe that their parents/guardians would have had no inkling whatsoever of Mr. Epstein's  association with or, for that matter, evident criminal intents towards their legal minor daughters! No, I am NOT trying to put any victims into the spotlight's glare but I just hope that somehow they each one day confront those who were supposed to protect them from folks like Epstein and his ilk but possibly  either via neglect or intent failed to do so. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Something that hasn't been examined re this whole Epstein deal is this: where did he find these underage apparent victims

They apparently found one of the girls when she was working at Mar a Lago.  Another was walking home from school in Epstein's neighborhood.  They traveled the world, so it's entirely possible many of the girls were poor girls from foreign countries. 

I'm more interested in the johns pretending they knew nothing while having sex with underage girls, and making sure they see justice, but I suspect they NEVER will.  EVER.

  • Like 11
  • Useful 1
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Blergh said:

Something that hasn't been examined re this whole Epstein deal is this: where did he find these underage apparent victims and how much did their parents/guardians know what was going on and when? Unless these were all runaways, it's hard to believe that their parents/guardians would have had no inkling whatsoever of Mr. Epstein's  association with or, for that matter, evident criminal intents towards their legal minor daughters! No, I am NOT trying to put any victims into the spotlight's glare but I just hope that somehow they each one day confront those who were supposed to protect them from folks like Epstein and his ilk but possibly  either via neglect or intent failed to do so. 

Actually this has been investigated extensively by Julie K. Brown of the Miami Herald who started investigating the Epstein story last year. She has interviewed several of his victims. If you go to its Web site, you will find several articles on how Epstein trafficked young girls in Florida as well as internationally.

Ghislaine Maxwell procured girls for Epstein and his friends from various sources. Her deceased father who was wealthy and corrupt was partners with one of the top Russian mafia figures. It is believed that she used her relationship with this Russian mafia figure to procure girls internationally for Epstein. Her father is presumed to have either committed suicide or accidentally fell off his yacht, but many people think that he was murdered by the Russian mob because he stole from them to dig himself out of a financial hole. 

Frankly, most people barely know anything about Epstein beyond what they read or heard about over the last couple months in the national media which is playing catch up, but this horrible story has been slowly coming out over the years in Florida. These are powerful wealthy evil people who associate with even more dangerous evil violent people which is why I don't put anything past any of them.

Edited by SimoneS
  • Like 7
  • Useful 3
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post

I honestly think that both suicide and deliberate negligence leading to "suicide" or murder are possible. People do get murdered in prison. People do kill themselves in prison. There was plenty of motive and apparently plenty of opportunity, from more than one direction. Because there is no video, we will probably never know the truth.

There is a systemic problem in the prison system AND there are a lot of specific issues with the Epstein case specifically.

If only as much interest was sparked by other deaths in custody!

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

As if we needed more proof of what a creep Epstein was, he told a NYT reporter criminalizing sex with teenagers was a "cultural aberration." And the Post went through the unsealed documents and found these disgusting phone messages, before voicemail when people had to actually write them down, saying things like “I have female for him” and "has girl for tonight."

  • Like 3
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post

According to a notification from NBC News, which just popped up on my iPhone, the Warden at the facility where Jeffrey Epstein (apparently?) killed himself has been reassigned & 2 guards have been placed on leave.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, MissAlmond said:
Quote

One of Epstein's guards at the Metropolitan Correctional Center on the night he died was reportedly not a regular corrections officer.

Jesus H. So what we've learned is that OITNB's depiction of prison life was spot-on. 

  • Sad 5

Share this post


Link to post

And he's not escaping it this time; In wake of harassment allegations against Plácido Domingo, companies step back.

If you have exceeded your 5 free articles a month:

Quote

In the wake of explosive allegations of sexual harassment against opera singer Plácido Domingo, the Los Angeles Opera, where he has served as general director since 2003, has launched an independent investigation, the San Francisco Opera has canceled a concert featuring the celebrated tenor, and the Philadelphia Orchestra has pulled his invitation to headline its season-opening gala.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

4 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

You knew that would be coming eventually though.

We could've only predicted that it would be coming in the last couple years, though.  There are plenty of people accused of harassment and bad behavior who got job after job and never paid the price in the past.  Nowadays, those chickens are coming home to roost.  Before 'Me Too', the companies would've waited for the legal system to step in before they would've canceled his gigs or otherwise excused him in order to keep the profits coming.  Nowadays, the public isn't willing to support institutions that employ known abusers, it didn't used to be that way,

Edited by doodlebug
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/13/2019 at 3:02 PM, kieyra said:

Jesus H. So what we've learned is that OITNB's depiction of prison life was spot-on

This was jail, which can be so much worse.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Do you know how hard it is to get those human suits onto the lizardmen? Then once you've got it one its even worse trying to get it off again. And you have to go shopping for different human suits, and soon you just kinda grab whatever's hanging at the front of the closet.

Also the zipper was stuck when we tried to switch.

Uh...I mean...nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

  • Laugh 7

Share this post


Link to post

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

As someone who loved Hyde and loved the Jackie/Hyde storyline, this hurts my heart.

This has ruined That 70's Show for me. And I really liked it.

  • Like 3
  • Sad 4

Share this post


Link to post

There is video released today with still shots of Prince Andrew inside of Epstein's NY mansion after he was charged in 2010. Epstein left with a young girl and there is another inside with Andrew. I am not posting the link because it is in one of the British tabloids and I don't want to give them any clicks. Andrew is a slimeball.

  • Like 12
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size