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Hollywood's Dirty Little (Open) Secrets: Harvey Weinstein and Others Like Him

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10 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

So Jeffery Epstein committed suicide

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm actually shocked.  I thought for sure he wouldn't go down alone and start naming names.  

11 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Considering the number of powerful and famous names rumored to be very nervous if Epstein went down, this all feels just a wee bit convenient to me.

Won't lie.  It has the feel of "Things That Make You Go Hmmm".

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DAMMIT.    He died convicted of only the crimes for which he plead guilty.   He is technically innocent of the new charges due to his death.    Plus his victims STILL don't get their day in court.    AND  a whole bunch of other rich and/or powerful people won't have to worry anymore.    Although I really hope the SDNY does keep digging in the evidence and charge those who participated in the sex parties -- whoever they are.   I am not just thinking of a certain few.

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What about Ghislaine Maxwell?  Has she disappeared?  Is it too late for charges to be brought against her?  Allegedly she was Epstein's procurer of girls.

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The victims will all file civil lawsuits against his estate.  And I don't think any of Epstein's cohorts should rest easy; hopefully the investigation against them will continue.

I've heard reports that Epstein attempted suicide a couple weeks ago.  But if he was on suicide watch, what would have been in his cell that he could have used to hang himself, which is what MSNBC is reporting (or at least one guy there) was the method of suicide?  Let the conspiracy speculation begin!  

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32 minutes ago, Calvada said:

The victims will all file civil lawsuits against his estate.  And I don't think any of Epstein's cohorts should rest easy; hopefully the investigation against them will continue.

I've heard reports that Epstein attempted suicide a couple weeks ago.  But if he was on suicide watch, what would have been in his cell that he could have used to hang himself, which is what MSNBC is reporting (or at least one guy there) was the method of suicide?  Let the conspiracy speculation begin!  

It is very interesting that he managed to kill himself while on suicide watch.  I don't know what the protocols are for the jail in NYC, but most facilities have a closed circuit camera trained on the cell, which is usually stripped virtually bare and someone is tasked with watching the feed and usually required to perform some sort of electronic sign-in at intervals, like every 15 minutes, to prove that the person is under watch.  There are also usually face to face rounds required by a law enforcement official every half hour to hour.  It is hard to imagine how Epstein was able to find a way to kill himself let alone to find the unobserved time to carry out the plan.

I'm a physician and, as a resident, I did see a patient on suicide watch in the hospital commit suicide.  In those days, closed circuit TV wasn't readily available; the subject was in a pretty bare room and a staff member was required to look in on him/her every 15 minutes.  Usually, there was a clipboard at the door where the person doing the surveillance would place their initials to confirm the checks were done.  This particular patient was an engineer, so he probably had a little more scientific knowledge than most people.  He asked for a pen and a piece of paper to write a note which he was given with the nurse telling him she would be back in 15 minutes to collect the items.  When she returned, he was on the floor in cardiac arrest.  At the Code Blue, we couldn't figure out what the heck had happened until we cut his shirt off to place monitors, do CPR etc.  He had somehow managed to jam the ballpoint pen into his heart, I kid you not.  He apparently plunged the thing up under his ribs and into his left ventricle.  He did not survive.  Amazingly, the wound barely bled, at least on the outside. so, I guess where there's a will there's a way.

Edited by doodlebug
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A man who knows the sexual crimes of some very rich and powerful people kills himself in his cell while under suicide watch.  Not to endorse conspiracy theories, but come on, this one practically writes itself.  See what happens to Ghislaine Maxwell next.

I am sorry that anyone he could have exposed and helped bring to justice will now scuttle back to the shadows.

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To clarify, I said "if" he was on suicide watch.  I don't know if that's been confirmed.  But as you say, doodlebug, never underestimate the ability of someone to self-harm.  Suicide is the most common cause for death in a prison, after all.  Some individuals who threaten or attempt suicide then appear to be adjusting to incarceration, and instead it is a desperate person's way of getting what they need to end it returned to their cell.  

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3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So Jeffery Epstein committed suicide. Yeah I'll put my conspiracy hat on for this one. Considering the number of powerful and famous names rumored to be very nervous if Epstein went down, this all feels just a wee bit convenient to me. 

I don't think its a conspiracy so much as he knew where this was all headed and decided his live was over anyway.

Not shocking at all. 

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1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

It is very interesting that he managed to kill himself while on suicide watch.  I don't know what the protocols are for the jail in NYC, but most facilities have a closed circuit camera trained on the cell, which is usually stripped virtually bare and someone is tasked with watching the feed and usually required to perform some sort of electronic sign-in at intervals, like every 15 minutes, to prove that the person is under watch.  There are also usually face to face rounds required by a law enforcement official every half hour to hour.  It is hard to imagine how Epstein was able to find a way to kill himself let alone to find the unobserved time to carry out the plan.

I'm a physician and, as a resident, I did see a patient on suicide watch in the hospital commit suicide.  In those days, closed circuit TV wasn't readily available; the subject was in a pretty bare room and a staff member was required to look in on him/her every 15 minutes.  Usually, there was a clipboard at the door where the person doing the surveillance would place their initials to confirm the checks were done.  This particular patient was an engineer, so he probably had a little more scientific knowledge than most people.  He asked for a pen and a piece of paper to write a note which he was given with the nurse telling him she would be back in 15 minutes to collect the items.  When she returned, he was on the floor in cardiac arrest.  At the Code Blue, we couldn't figure out what the heck had happened until we cut his shirt off to place monitors, do CPR etc.  He had somehow managed to jam the ballpoint pen into his heart, I kid you not.  He apparently plunged the thing up under his ribs and into his left ventricle.  He did not survive.  Amazingly, the wound barely bled, at least on the outside. so, I guess where there's a will there's a way.

Now that is some commitment to dying!!

I assume he punctured a lung too

Something like that happened on Sons of anarchy.  One of the prisoners go ahold of a pen from a doctor and killed someone.  I forget the details. 

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Having just done the Wikipedia thing, this guy was pals with people on both sides of the political divide. 

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3 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

So Jeffery Epstein committed suicide. Yeah I'll put my conspiracy hat on for this one. Considering the number of powerful and famous names rumored to be very nervous if Epstein went down, this all feels just a wee bit convenient to me.

Sounds more like someone who couldn't face the music to me.  His money kept him safe for years and when it couldn't do that for him anymore he killed himself.  I'm betting not out of remorse.

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30 minutes ago, Homily said:

Sounds more like someone who couldn't face the music to me.  His money kept him safe for years and when it couldn't do that for him anymore he killed himself.  I'm betting not out of remorse.

I don't doubt that someone as awful as Epstein would in the end take the coward's way out, rather than face up to what he did. That said, I also know that the rumored evidence found in his safe of various illegal acts involving other powerful men weren't just there for kicks. That was likely blackmail material. So yeah when he coincidentally ends up dead as it's looking likely he may go down and doubtful he would without taking others with him, I'm suspicious.

20 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Considering how many powerful people were shaking in their boots because of Epstein I find his suicide at this particular moment rather - convenient.

Exactly.

And apparently others are suspicious too. An NBC news correspondent and writer for Vanity Fair.

It's also being reported that there was a "camera malfunction" last night in the cell block where Epstein was being held.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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According to this CNBC article, Epstein wasn't on suicide watch 

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Epstein was in his own cell, but was not currently on suicide watch at the time of his death, people familiar with the investigation said. 

I wonder why he wasn't? Did they not believe he tried to kill himself the first time?

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14 minutes ago, GaT said:

According to this CNBC article, Epstein wasn't on suicide watch 

I wonder why he wasn't? Did they not believe he tried to kill himself the first time?

The theory is that authorities knew he never tried suicide that the first time was a murder attempt.

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10 minutes ago, bobalina said:

The theory is that authorities knew he never tried suicide that the first time was a murder attempt.

Which would then beg the question of why he wasn't being more closely monitored.

38 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

That said, I also know that the rumored evidence found in his safe of various illegal acts involving other powerful men weren't just there for kicks. That was likely blackmail material. So yeah when he coincidentally ends up dead as it's looking likely he may go down and doubtful he would without taking others with him, I'm suspicious.

If the potential blackmail material has been found why would anyone need to kill Epstein?   Not saying it's not possible that someone wealthy and with enough of the right connections wanted Epstein dead but it sounds very conspiracy theory to me. 

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1 hour ago, DrSpaceman said:

Now that is some commitment to dying!!

I assume he punctured a lung too

Something like that happened on Sons of anarchy.  One of the prisoners go ahold of a pen from a doctor and killed someone.  I forget the details. 

They used the ballpoint pen method on an ep of Law & Order too. They were questioning a guy who ended up being responsible for the deaths of 7 family members in a car accident (for which it was initially thought the driver, who was 1 of the dead, was responsible); he couldn’t take the heat, said he needed to use the restroom &, when the cops decided he’d been gone too long, he was found in a toilet stall with a ballpoint pen sticking out of his neck.

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Another theory on the first 'suicide attempt' was that his injuries were so minimal, that he did it himself to be released on home arrest/bail, so he could escape the country.    He also wasn't on suicide watch any longer.   

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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1 hour ago, bobalina said:

The theory is that authorities knew he never tried suicide that the first time was a murder attempt.

49 minutes ago, Homily said:

Which would then beg the question of why he wasn't being more closely monitored.

I would think if it was a murder attempt he would have said something, it's not like this was some tough guy who wouldn't snitch.

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11 minutes ago, GaT said:

I would think if it was a murder attempt he would have said something, it's not like this was some tough guy who wouldn't snitch.

Agreed.  I mean what could anyone threaten him with that would keep him quiet about someone attempting to kill him?  

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Not to join the tinfoil hat brigade, but what if he did snitch about a murder attempt, and the person(s) he told were either involved or deliberately ignored him out of contempt? How would we in the public hear about it?

That "camera malfunction" sounds EXTREMELY suspicious. Like, 70s-political-thriller-starring-Robert-Redford level suspicious.

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35 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Not to join the tinfoil hat brigade, but what if he did snitch about a murder attempt, and the person(s) he told were either involved or deliberately ignored him out of contempt? How would we in the public hear about it?

If he told the authorities he told his lawyers.  His lawyers would have no reason not to speak out.  Unless we're really going to plunge deep into conspiracy theories and assume they were (a) in on the murder or (b) are now living in fear of some hypothetical person who wanted Epstein dead and paid to have it done.

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It is unfortunate that Epstein's victims won't get justice in a criminal court even though they will likely have remedies in civil court against his estate. The recent release of court documents with accusations against his conspirators and men that he pimped these girls out to like Dershowitz, Prince Andrew, George Mitchell, and Bill Richardson show that a lot more dirt will come out before this is over.

I am in the suspicious camp. The people Epstein was presumably blackmailing are wealthy and powerful. I don't put it pass them to have him murdered and have it look like a suicide. However, I do think that it is possible that he committed suicide once he realized that no amount of blackmail and money would be saving him this time. It isn't like he was going to be locked up in Club Fed. He was going to be incarcerated in a federal supermax prison

Edited by SimoneS
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53 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It is unfortunate that Epstein's victims won't get justice in a criminal court even though they will likely have remedies in civil court against his estate. The recent release of court documents with accusations against his conspirators and men that he pimped these girls out to like Dershowitz, Prince Andrew, George Mitchell, and Bill Richardson show that a lot more dirt will come out before this is over.

I am in the suspicious camp. The people Epstein was presumably blackmailing are wealthy and powerful. I don't put it pass them to have him murdered and have it look like a suicide. However, I do think that it is possible that he committed suicide once he realized that no amount of blackmail and money would be saving him this time. It isn't like he was going to be locked up in Club Fed. He was going to be incarcerated in federal supermax prison

I have been afraid to comment on this, because some of the people named are politicians, and I know the rules here. It's bugging me that the conspiracy theorists are focusing on a few certain people, when Epstein knew so many more people, all well-to-do - like the guys who got him the sweet deal in 2008. With the warnings in an article a day or two ago, talking about how many powerful people were going to have a bad weekend, it feels like a really bad movie. 

I'm also amazed at how many powerful men put themselves in a position in which they could be blackmailed by someone like him. I guess they really do think that money and fame protects them. 

Edited by Anela
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1 minute ago, Anela said:

I'm also amazed at how many powerful men, putting themselves into a position in which they could be blackmailed by someone like him. I guess they really do think that money and fame protects them. 

Realistically up until recently I guess they had no reason to believe they were ever going to have to worry that there might be a day of reckoning.

And, in some defense of at least some of these guys - did they know that the young women they were meeting up with were as young as they were and did they know these young women were not willing participants?  It doesn't change what Epstein was doing  but to me does make a difference to how I'd perceive some of these other men.  Still creepy as hell to let themselves get involved with such obviously young women though.

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1 minute ago, Homily said:

Realistically up until recently I guess they had no reason to believe they were ever going to have to worry that there might be a day of reckoning.

And, in some defense of at least some of these guys - did they know that the young women they were meeting up with were as young as they were and did they know these young women were not willing participants?  It doesn't change what Epstein was doing  but to me does make a difference to how I'd perceive some of these other men.  Still creepy as hell to let themselves get involved with such obviously young women though.

I remember hearing about all of this years ago, just like Weinstein, Spacey, and Singer. If I knew, they had to know. I can't give them the benefit of the doubt. 

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2 hours ago, Homily said:

Realistically up until recently I guess they had no reason to believe they were ever going to have to worry that there might be a day of reckoning.

And, in some defense of at least some of these guys - did they know that the young women they were meeting up with were as young as they were and did they know these young women were not willing participants?  It doesn't change what Epstein was doing  but to me does make a difference to how I'd perceive some of these other men.  Still creepy as hell to let themselves get involved with such obviously young women though.

I cannot imagine any defense of any of these men including the one you offered up. They were mostly unattractive middle age men, most of whom were married. They had to know that Epstein was pimping out the young girls who he sent to their rooms, massages, orgies, etc. to have sex with them. The girls didn't just fall out of the sky onto their penises. As for not knowing their ages that is the defense of every man who commits statutory rape. People should read the court documents with the victim's statements about the rapes and coerced sex that they were subjected to by Epstein and his repulsive friends.

Edited by SimoneS
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1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I cannot imagine any defense of any of these men including the one you offered up. They were mostly unattractive middle age men, most of whom were married. They had to know that Epstein was pimping out the young girls who he sent to their rooms, massages, orgies, etc. to have sex with them.

I've read very little about this until recently so will certainly defer to people who've followed this more closely - that said though, in general,   unattractive, married and middle aged can be more than compensated for by being rich and powerful.  

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According to TMZ, Epstein was on suicide watch for a while, but then they took him off of it.

Quote

Law enforcement sources familiar with the matter tell TMZ ... Epstein was taken off suicide watch after he met with medical professionals who evaluated him after his first alleged suicide attempt. We're told Epstein was found to be well enough to be sent back to his cell in the Special Housing Unit without extra eyes on him. So, Epstein was briefly on suicide watch, but at some point between July 23 and today ... he was removed. 

I think there are some "medical professionals" who have got some 'splainin to do.

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I'm glad he's dead. I'm sorry his victims won't get justice but also really glad that he won't walk out of court room having found some way to weasel out of it or get another ridiculously stupid deal. I'm sure the had a ton had a ton of evidence, but they had that before. Hope your in enjoying Hell you sick bastard. Now praying that this isn't the end of it and his many friends involved go down too. I know they've said it will continue and it better. Come on SDNY get them all. Arrest and convict and give them real sentences.

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5 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

It's a much simpler explanation than all the conspiracy theories being spun.

What I love most about conspiracy theories is how totally dependent they usually are on a whole lot of people being able to keep a secret.  And also on how casually people can be killed to keep that secret except of course for all the people  writing books and making movies supposedly exposing the conspiracy theory.  Somehow they remain unscathed. I expect the Epstein death will be fodder for conspiracy theorists for years to come - and given the Prince Andrew connection,  especially for those who think the Royal Family has the power to kill off  potential troublemakers.

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2 minutes ago, Homily said:

What I love most about conspiracy theories is how totally dependent they usually are on a whole lot of people being able to keep a secret.

This. Perhaps the biggest reason why I never get into that stuff. If my time watching true crime shows has taught me anything, there is no honor among thieves. If one goes down, they're taking everyone else with 'em. 

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21 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

there is no honor among thieves. If one goes down, they're taking everyone else with 'em. 

Well to be fair, that's exactly why some believe he was murdered. Because no one expected him to go down alone if this was finally it for him. And as someone noted above, no way Epstein ran an international sex trafficking ring all by himself. 

26 minutes ago, Homily said:

What I love most about conspiracy theories is how totally dependent they usually are on a whole lot of people being able to keep a secret. 

Well much like running an entire sex trafficking ring. That could not have happened without a lot of people keeping the secret and turning a blind eye and no one's questioning that that's exactly what Epstein was guilty of. 

The court documents and deposition suggest that there were huge names involved in this that again, means no way it happened without many suspecting it was happening, keeping the secret and saying nothing. 

Seriously, if someone laid out Epstein's crimes in pitch form, it would sound like the plot of some international crime thriller.  Rich financier involved in international sex ring that serves the rich and powerful who all need to ensure he's never caught. 

So with that perspective, is someone being murdered when let's face it, every day people hire people to kill spouses, relatives, etc. that out of the realm of possibility? 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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8 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

So with that perspective, is someone being murdered when let's face it, every day people hire people to kill spouses, relatives, etc. that out of the realm of possibility? 

It's certainly something they need to explore as a possibility.  But if after a thorough investigation the authorities determine it was suicide what then?  Sure someone could get another person killed - as you say it happens all the time -  but the idea that this mysterious someone could then pay off doctors, lawyers, prison personnel, judges, government officials, and so on and so on is when the tinfoil hat brigade take over and run with it.

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18 minutes ago, Homily said:

But if after a thorough investigation the authorities determine it was suicide what then?  Sure someone could get another person killed - as you say it happens all the time -  but the idea that this mysterious someone could then pay off doctors, lawyers, prison personnel, judges, government officials, and so on and so on is when the tinfoil hat brigade take over and run with it.

I cannot speak for anyone else but no, my original comment had nothing to do with the idea that a whole slew of people were paid off to cover his murder because as you noted, an investigation hasn't even happened yet. My comment was solely on my suspicion that he may have been murdered. If an investigation suggests he wasn't, then okay.

My point was to dismiss the notion that he could have been murdered as wild conspiracy when we know this man ran an international sex trafficking ring that served the rich and powerful for years was a bit odd to me.

Again I am not saying it is a fact Epstein was murdered. Obviously I wasn't there and as I said in a previous post, it would not be the least bit surprising to me that someone as awful as him would take the coward's way out. However, all I'm saying is that it also would not surprise me if he was murdered because too many very powerful people with a lot to lose stood to go down if Epstein talked. 

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1 hour ago, truthaboutluv said:

Well to be fair, that's exactly why some believe he was murdered. Because no one expected him to go down alone if this was finally it for him. And as someone noted above, no way Epstein ran an international sex trafficking ring all by himself. 

Well much like running an entire sex trafficking ring. That could not have happened without a lot of people keeping the secret and turning a blind eye and no one's questioning that that's exactly what Epstein was guilty of. 

The court documents and deposition suggest that there were huge names involved in this that again, means no way it happened without many suspecting it was happening, keeping the secret and saying nothing. 

Seriously, if someone laid out Epstein's crimes in pitch form, it would sound like the plot of some international crime thriller.  Rich financier involved in international sex ring that serves the rich and powerful who all need to ensure he's never caught. 

So with that perspective, is someone being murdered when let's face it, every day people hire people to kill spouses, relatives, etc. that out of the realm of possibility? 

Because it's one thing to say "oh those girls are getting paid" or "they enjoy it" or "they aren't really underage" to rationalize your own misdeeds.   It's quite another to decide to kill someone to protect your secret.    Believe it or not, there is a line some people won't cross.

Yes, people hire hit men all the time.   And they get caught.   The rich and powerful involved in this, know this darn well.   They KNOW they are likely to get caught if they do hire a hit man.   Whereas, they have every reason to believe that their money and power will get them out of any sex crimes charges.    Murder is a lot harder to get community service for.   

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1 minute ago, merylinkid said:

It's quite another to decide to kill someone to protect your secret.    Believe it or not, there is a line some people won't cross.

Sorry, YMMV but I don't believe someone who would have sex with underaged girls and willingly engage in a sex trafficking/prostitution ring have some moral standard they won't cross and murder is somehow too far a line to cross for them. 

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I tend towards the simplest explanation makes the most sense. This selfish, cowardly rich guy finally realized he wasn't getting out of it this time and didn't want to face the music. When his fake suicide attempt didn't get him put in a position to escape he realized it was over. 

I am just glad this person no longer exists and I hope his death helps focus the investigation on the rest of those assholes, now that their scapegoat is gone. 

Edited by Mabinogia · Reason: I couldn't express what I mean properly
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6 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I am just glad this person no longer exists and I hope his death helps focus the investigation on the rest of those assholes, now that their scapegoat is gone. 

I'm not glad. Because it means he'll never be put on trial, and his victims will never get the opportunity to tell their stories in a court of law, and play a part in seeing justice done.

And I'm also fairly sure that most of the people linked to Epstein will never see any consequences for the things they've done. This thing will be dragged out and dragged out, by those in authority who have too much to lose, and who are connected to people who have too much to lose. They'll bank on everyone losing interest, and then it will just go away, like so many murky scandals do when no one shines a light on them.

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3 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I'm not glad. Because it means he'll never be put on trial, and his victims will never get the opportunity to tell their stories in a court of law, and play a part in seeing justice done.

While I get that, I also am all too aware that his lawyers could tear his victims to shreds if they tell their stories because "he has a right to defend himself against his accusers" and I don't know that we would see justice being done so much as watching a rich white guy once again find a way to wriggle off the hook on some purchased technicality. I am admittedly very cynical about our "justice" system. 

I don't know that they would have gotten any of the others even if he lived. At most he would have made a deal, given a couple names and gotten himself out of trouble. I would rather get rid of one of them for good than risk them all getting away. 

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On 8/5/2019 at 9:07 PM, Stats Queen said:

But we are actually hearing about the incidents and people are much less afraid to call their employer out because of the huge awareness and support that the #Metoo movement supports. Horrible behaviors won’t stop overnight and really toxic work environments can take a while to fix, but IMHO #MeToo have given victims a support system. 

So I feel your sentiment (especially because I dared to report harassment problems and it was political suicide, even with leaders who liked me personally). This was 10 years ago years ago. 

As someone who does change management for a living- changing environments and the behavior of people in said environments will take time. 

At the end of the day, the leadership of a company is ultimately responsible for the culture in their organization. I feel like Hollywood/filming industry is lagging far behind other large companies in reining in this behavior.

Thanks for this comment (and my sympathies for going through something like this yourself).

I'm intrigued by your last paragraph. I sometimes read Ken Levine's blog - he was a writer/head writer for a lot of big shows, like MASH, Cheers, Frasier and The Simpsons - and by all accounts he is, as he himself might put it, a mensch and has had several women writers attest to his character and support of them over the years.

Yet he is a big advocate of "no holds barred" writers' rooms, where literally anything goes in terms of what's said, on the grounds that stifling thoughts is what prohibits free thinking and creativity. I don't doubt he's sincere. But for me that is pretty much a first-class ticket to facilitating racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, and all kinds of stereotypes and prejudices. It echoes your last point, that the creative arts are probably the last industry to deliberately cultivate and champion these attitudes -the other industries at least have to pay lip service to the idea that they are attempting to weed this stuff out.

On 8/10/2019 at 10:42 AM, truthaboutluv said:

So Jeffery Epstein committed suicide. Yeah I'll put my conspiracy hat on for this one. Considering the number of powerful and famous names rumored to be very nervous if Epstein went down, this all feels just a wee bit convenient to me. 

This is where PrimeTimer needs an "😠" option in its responses. That fucking rat bastard got off too easily.

58 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

I tend towards the simplest explanation makes the most sense. This selfish, cowardly rich guy finally realized he wasn't getting out of it this time and didn't want to face the music. When his fake suicide attempt didn't get him put in a position to escape he realized it was over. 

I am just glad this person no longer exists and I hope his death helps focus the investigation on the rest of those assholes, now that their scapegoat is gone. 

I normally don't proscribe to conspiracy theories, and I really hope this is a case of him taking himself out and not people silencing him because they have a hope of getting away with it if he dies before naming names.

But as it appears a number of right-wing politicians, left-wing politicians, royal family members, and prominent businesspeople (and probably a few religious leaders too) apparently raped and violated powerless underaged kids and women (probably a few boys/men too for the Kevin Spacey types) for years and years thanks to a coalition of putrid fucktard procurers, with only a few rumours floating around to rain on their parade: I don't have an issue thinking someone had enough clout to silence him before he started naming names.

I just hope Epstein was enough of a rat bastard to have an "in the event of my death" final whistle blow that would bring everything to light, to bring the entire structure down with him if he were struck down. Not out of some sense of justice, mind - no one with even a smidgen of moral conscience would have done what he did - but just a desire to ensure the other fucking rat bastards don't get away with their crimes at his expense.

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5 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I just hope Epstein was enough of a rat bastard to have an "in the event of my death" final whistle blow that would bring everything to light, to bring the entire structure down with him if he were struck down. Not out of some sense of justice, mind - no one with even a smidgen of moral conscience would have done what he did - but just a desire to ensure the other forking rat bastards don't get away with their crimes at his expense.

He does seem the type who would have such an "insurance policy" in place for exactly the reasons you listed, he was dealing with politicians and royalty. He had to know that if the shit hit the fan, which it did, that they would not hesitate to use all of their collective resources to make damned sure he was the one to take all the heat. If he had a brain in his head he would make sure that, if something happened to him, these men would go down, and that they would knew well in advance that if something happened to him, they would be taken down. 

For as much money and power as he had, he really was the expendable one in all this. Surely he knew that. It's why I think he got out while he could. This was going to get a lot uglier for him than it was for his even richer more powerful pals. 

I'm not against this being a murder, it is just that, given the type of selfish, cowardly little shit this guy is, I feel like suicide is more likely. Also, if it is murder, I seriously doubt it will ever be solved.

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