Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
SilverStormm

S03.E00: Comfort And Joy

Recommended Posts

33 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Most 19th century marriages among the upper classes were arranged for financial concerns, but that didn’t mean that some couples weren’t genuinely attracted to each other and ended up falling in love- but it was still an 19th century marriage with legal coventure and all that entailed. By Victoria being Queen- she was in a unique position as a wife....

 

It’s kind of hard to have actual equality or a partnership when the woman is no longer a legal person! (Even if the husband was kind, loving, non abusive and did take her thoughts into consideration) 

I agree. But Victoria’s was not a typical 19th  century marriage. As Victoria stated herself, she CHOSE Albert because she loved him. She could have chosen not to marry at all, like Queen Elizabeth I. She had power in her marriage because she was Queen that other women at her time did not have. As depicted on the show, Albert had no power to do anything at the beginning of their marriage. Slowly, Victoria granted him more power to “assist her” with her duties, both out of necessity (Victoria’s confinements) and because Albert proved to be very willing and able to handle certain things. I do not think it is correct to lump Victoria in as her husband’s “property” like other women of the time. She wasn’t. Heck, she even had the choice to include the word “obey” in her wedding vows. Their marriage was not equal in the beginning, but I think the reason for the inequality was Victoria was actually above her husband. With the societal norms in place at the time, Albert, to me, seems very progressive to take a back seat in a number of ways. Sure, he struggles at times. But, I have not gotten a vibe from Albert that he does not want or that he resents him wife being Queen. He just seems eager to do more himself to assist her as her consort.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, Nolefan said:

I agree. But Victoria’s was not a typical 19th  century marriage. As Victoria stated herself, she CHOSE Albert because she loved him. She could have chosen not to marry at all, like Queen Elizabeth I. She had power in her marriage because she was Queen that other women at her time did not have. As depicted on the show, Albert had no power to do anything at the beginning of their marriage. Slowly, Victoria granted him more power to “assist her” with her duties, both out of necessity (Victoria’s confinements) and because Albert proved to be very willing and able to handle certain things. I do not think it is correct to lump Victoria in as her husband’s “property” like other women of the time. She wasn’t. Heck, she even had the choice to include the word “obey” in her wedding vows. Their marriage was not equal in the beginning, but I think the reason for the inequality was Victoria was actually above her husband. With the societal norms in place at the time, Albert, to me, seems very progressive to take a back seat in a number of ways. Sure, he struggles at times. But, I have not gotten a vibe from Albert that he does not want or that he resents him wife being Queen. He just seems eager to do more himself to assist her as her consort.

I agree. Victoria chose Albert. She originally planned to reject him because her mother wanted the match. She changed her mind after meeting him a second time. I don't see Albert as wanting power. If he did why would he bother to work so much on so many different projects. He took their role seriously. Victoria didn't in the beginning but to be fair she was never educated for her role. Given the lackluster of the last two kings no one really expected her to do anything.  Victoria learned to start taking her role more seriously. From Albert but also from others. The ball she threw to help out the silk weaver and at the end realizing she needed to help those that came to protest. Albert took things a lot more seriously and he was educated very well for his role and unlike most men who actually ended up ruling on their own actually thinks its a job with a lot of work and things to do.  Victoria's never had problem saying no or telling Albert her opinion.   They both have strong opinions and have no problem voicing them to each other.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
On ‎8‎.‎6‎.‎2018 at 8:50 AM, andromeda331 said:

I don't see Albert as wanting power. If he did why would he bother to work so much on so many different projects. 

How so? When one works hard in many projects, one gets much information and many relationships and thereby one often gets power which is an ability to make others do what one wants, sometimes without them even noticing it.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
37 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

How so? When one works hard in many projects, one gets much information and many relationships and thereby one often gets power which is an ability to make others do what one wants, sometimes without them even noticing it.   

Maybe I'm comparing him power hungry men in history or power seeking royals he doesn't really seem similar to them. I don't see him having the ability to make others do what he wants given how suspicious everyone was of him in the first place because he was a foreigner and husband of the Queen or really even wanting too. He always seems up front and someone who works really hard Albert worked hard and took on so much work even when he was sick he continued to work and ignored advice to slow down. He worked on reforms on university education, welfare, slavery. That just doesn't seem like what a man seeking power would do or care about.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Maybe I'm comparing him power hungry men in history or power seeking royals he doesn't really seem similar to them. I don't see him having the ability to make others do what he wants given how suspicious everyone was of him in the first place because he was a foreigner and husband of the Queen or really even wanting too. He always seems up front and someone who works really hard Albert worked hard and took on so much work even when he was sick he continued to work and ignored advice to slow down. He worked on reforms on university education, welfare, slavery. That just doesn't seem like what a man seeking power would do or care about.  

I agree. There is a difference between wanting power just to throw your weight around (probably like Lord Conroy and Cumberland) and wanting power to do some good things (like Albert). There seems to be a split in people’s views of Albert in this regard, as I feel some people want to put him in the Conroy/Cumberland camps of wanting power. I do no think, however, there is any evidence of Albert being like  them. He seems fine to me with being Victoria’s advisor and with Victoria getting credit for being Queen. In fact, he strikes me as the sort of person that is fine with the ideas and issues being the center of attention, but would be very uncomfortable with himself being the center of attention. He seems perfectly fine to sit in the carriage and not make eye contact, while Victoria handles things (the scene from Engine of Change). It just seems like when he gets passionate about a cause and Victoria doesn’t want to do anything about it, he losses his head. But, the causes always seem like good things that Victoria agrees with, they just seem to disagree about how the causes should be “rolled out.” Is Albert wrong to go against Victoria in these instances? Yes, she is Queen, and it is her decision. Does Albert’s behavior make him a power hungry Conroy/Cumberland type of man? I would say definitely no.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Maybe I'm comparing him power hungry men in history or power seeking royals he doesn't really seem similar to them. I don't see him having the ability to make others do what he wants given how suspicious everyone was of him in the first place because he was a foreigner and husband of the Queen or really even wanting too. He always seems up front and someone who works really hard Albert worked hard and took on so much work even when he was sick he continued to work and ignored advice to slow down. He worked on reforms on university education, welfare, slavery. That just doesn't seem like what a man seeking power would do or care about.  

 

16 hours ago, Nolefan said:

I agree. There is a difference between wanting power just to throw your weight around (probably like Lord Conroy and Cumberland) and wanting power to do some good things (like Albert). There seems to be a split in people’s views of Albert in this regard, as I feel some people want to put him in the Conroy/Cumberland camps of wanting power. I do no think, however, there is any evidence of Albert being like  them. He seems fine to me with being Victoria’s advisor and with Victoria getting credit for being Queen. In fact, he strikes me as the sort of person that is fine with the ideas and issues being the center of attention, but would be very uncomfortable with himself being the center of attention. He seems perfectly fine to sit in the carriage and not make eye contact, while Victoria handles things (the scene from Engine of Change). It just seems like when he gets passionate about a cause and Victoria doesn’t want to do anything about it, he losses his head. But, the causes always seem like good things that Victoria agrees with, they just seem to disagree about how the causes should be “rolled out.” Is Albert wrong to go against Victoria in these instances? Yes, she is Queen, and it is her decision. Does Albert’s behavior make him a power hungry Conroy/Cumberland type of man? I would say definitely no.

I don't think that wanting power is bad for if one wants others do something that one can't do alone, one must have power. If Albert weren't an ambitious man who wants to to use his position to do things he wants, he would be a slob or an epicure like Ernest, however charming he is.

However, getting power in politics through marriage or sexual relationships creates problems unless a couple has an ability to make a difference between discussing about issues and personal relationship. Victoria and Albert obviously can't for their querrels about issues always become personal.      

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

 

I don't think that wanting power is bad for if one wants others do something that one can't do alone, one must have power. If Albert weren't an ambitious man who wants to to use his position to do things he wants, he would be a slob or an epicure like Ernest, however charming he is.

However, getting power in politics through marriage or sexual relationships creates problems unless a couple has an ability to make a difference between discussing about issues and personal relationship. Victoria and Albert obviously can't for their querrels about issues always become personal.      

Oh, so if I am understand your position correctly, you think Albert should not have any type of power at all. Period. Victoria is Queen, and others should not get any power through her. That’s cool. I am, however, fine with Victoria delegating authority to her very willing and very able consort. And, speaking as a woman, I don’t think her “girl power card” needs to  be revoked for asking for some help with her job from her husband. In fact, I think she would have been stupid not to utilize the knowledge that Albert possessed to accomplish her duties as Queen.

Spoiler

I also think history proved that Albert had a very positive influence on England. And I think he earned every bit of the influence he obtained. The English nobility and people hated him, and the sole reason for their hatred was in my opinion that he was German. Despite this ill will toward him, he achieved great things for the nation. I think England was lucky that Victoria made such a great choice as her consort.

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, Nolefan said:

Oh, so if I am understand your position correctly, you think Albert should not have any type of power at all. Period. Victoria is Queen, and others should not get any power through her. That’s cool. I am, however, fine with Victoria delegating authority to her very willing and very able consort. And, speaking as a woman, I don’t think her “girl power card” needs to  be revoked for asking for some help with her job from her husband. In fact, I think she would have been stupid not to utilize the knowledge that Albert possessed to accomplish her duties as Queen.

  Reveal hidden contents

I also think history proved that Albert had a very positive influence on England. And I think he earned every bit of the influence he obtained. The English nobility and people hated him, and the sole reason for their hatred was in my opinion that he was German. Despite this ill will toward him, he achieved great things for the nation. I think England was lucky that Victoria made such a great choice as her consort.

No, I am not against Albert having power, but against his and Victoria's unablity to separate work and home. As I said, they can't discuss about issues without becoming personal.

Of course, to Victoria everything is personal, as the case of Melbourne showed. Albert can be impersonal and deal with persons who are most useful or have most power, But with Victoria he can't separate her roles as Queen and wife.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/23/2018 at 8:43 PM, TiaLou said:

Just binge-watched this season.

Two comments about this last episode:

1) Why was it suddenly a surprise to see Victoria's mother and Uncle Leopold at Christmas? Weren't they around all the time anyway? I didn't understand why Victoria was so shocked that her mother and uncle were at the palace for the holiday. Seems like they were just in a recent episode, and no mention had been made of them being sent away with no intention of reconnecting.

I found the continuity in this show really lacking , which surprised me a lot because I think this show had been doing a terrific job in this regard. Last we saw Victoria’s mother, she and Victoria were having a nice bonding moment with baby Bertie. At that time, it seemed she was still living at Buckingham Palace. But, in this episode it appeared Victoria had not seen in mother in years, with absolutely no explanation. 

Also, I found Victoria’s sudden “fear” of Uncle Cumberland perplexing. Last we saw him was in Young England. In that episode, Albert was trying to convince Victoria to stay in the palace because Uncle Cumberland was dangerous. Victoria basically laughed him off and continued her public carriage rides.  And then Uncle Cumberland was shown as not being behind the assassination attempt and Victoria ended up telling him off. Also, I thought she blamed her mother for concocting some false fear of an assassination attempt as a ruse to keep her locked up in Kensington all those years. But now in this episode she seemed to indicate the she herself feared Uncle Cumberland all that time. Does she now think her mother was right? And the way Victoria and Albert spoke of Uncle Cumberland (while in their bedroom after the opera performance) it was as if Albert had never met the man before — no mention at all of the whole Young England stuff and Victoria seemed to be explaining to Albert for the first time Uncle Cumberland’s place in her life as a child. Don’t get me wrong, I think the man is a slime ball, but the the sudden attitude that she needed Albert’s help to protect her from Uncle Cumberland, when Albert was painted in such a bad light for attempting to protect her from him in Young England, had me scratching my head. At this point, I feel like Uncle Cumberland is just a character that gets wheeled out when the show needs a nemesis for Victoria.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps it's just reading all the comments in these threads and following the links to slightly more verifiable info provided on Victoria's life, but I remember when she became Queen, Victoria moved into (newly built) Buckingham Palace (the newly built part was from one of the links) and commanded her Mother and Conroy (her mother's wile-y advisor) to remain residing in their wing of Kensington Palace.

So, her mother lived in the same city, but like all other subjects, she could only visit "at her majesty's pleasure" - which Victoria gave only sparingly.

Uncle Leopold (who was also brother to Victoria's mother - which made him her uncle on both her maternal and paternal lines) married Princess Charlotte: the only legitimate descendant of the reigning King George lll (via his fourth son who became King George lV).  His wife was 2nd in line to the Throne (so he would have been King Consort). Further, he would have expected the royal line to flow through him. So, Leopold, perhaps, was bitter that  Charlotte died giving birth to a stillborn son.  And only a year or so after they had married.

Victoria wasn't even born when Princess Charlotte died! All King George lll sons had failed to produce a legitimate heir, so they got busy and Victoria's dad, George lV won.

In this episode Leopold had sent Victoria a letter claiming ownership of his wife's jewels (which Victoria wore often). Victoria (rightly) refused to hand them over given that they were part of the royal collection and Charlotte would have inherited them via the royal line she was born into (as was Victoria).

Albert, in the passage of time, had come to learn (previous episodes) that Victoria wanted him to take her side and defend her, so that is what he did - even if he felt she could relinquish the jewels without being the worse off for it.

But it was Christmas and Leopold became quite generous and relinquished his claim. I can't remember who brokered this but I believe it was a threat to Leopold by the government that they would cut off the income he got from being married to Charlotte - or perhaps a promise of an increase? I can't remember.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

George IV was George III's eldest son.  George III's fourth son was Edward, Duke of Kent, and he was one of the Royal Dukes who wooed and wedded in the Heir stakes.  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, kassygreene said:

George IV was George III's eldest son.  George III's fourth son was Edward, Duke of Kent, and he was one of the Royal Dukes who wooed and wedded in the Heir stakes.  

Thanks for the correction.  I knew he was the 4th son, but there were a lot of titles in the articles I was looking at and somehow I conflated her father with the King who died making Victoria a Queen.  Further reading has revealed that he died close to a year after Victoria's birth - which explains his absence in this Series - so he never was a king. So many of his brother's either refused to get married or didn't like the wives they married and became estranged that I couldn't figure out if he was one of those (Charlotte's father certainly was).

Share this post


Link to post

I was also surprised that Skerret seems so cavalier about her secret relationship with the chef. She almost got kicked out of the palace for her secret indenity thing. Now she is harboring another secret from the Queen? She knows that her position does not allow her to be married (I totally disagree with this, but it is the rule) I feel that the amount of risk she is taking has not been adequately portrayed. Also, seeing that she was forgiven for other acts by Victoria and Albert, her behavior now almost seems to me to be disrespectful of the Queen. But, maybe Victoria is not even aware of the marriage prohibition, and she would think the rule is dumb.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 2/25/2018 at 10:48 PM, mmecorday said:

I think Mrs. Skerrett is a kind person who realizes people should not be owned and could not go through with claiming her inheritance in good conscience. It really is shocking when you see how human beings were treated as property, often listed among the household inventory.

 

But to give up a fortune! And one could have easily brushed it off as something they never intended. I would have liked to see it be a harder choice. It could have ended servants life and offered a life as a wife and mother.  I love that she decided against, as the British were WAY ahead of us in the US when it came to slavery, but it felt unlikely that it wouldnt have been a really really hard decision.

 

On 2/26/2018 at 1:25 PM, Earmuffs Mom said:

It wasn't explained.  What I didn't understand is why Albert chose this Christmas in particular to start creating childhood memories?  They already had 3+ children by the time he decided to start celebrating?  Was it so they could remember?  What did they do the other Christmases?

Well, according to the lady in black, they got an orange LOL. And a Christmas pudding. Not surprising that they didn't do trees yet. 

On 3/3/2018 at 4:59 PM, Ohmo said:

I think PBS has a scheduling issue during the holidays.  Many British shows have holiday specials.  During this past holiday season, I saw Call the Midwife during the holiday season, along with Last Tango in Halifax.  I can see them just deciding to air a couple during the holiday season.

 

I think Ernst was intentionally trying to make Harriet hate him so that they would not be tempted in the future and have her be put in danger.  I've heard of one person in a couple doing that.  He/She believes this will make things easier for the other person by forcing a clean break instead of continuing to hang on in the hopes that things might improve.

I'm not thrilled by Skerrett and Francotelli, and I don't buy that she's not at least a bit wary of him.  I fear that she's going to find herself "in trouble" (to use an old-fashioned euphemism), it will cost her her position in the palace, and he'll want to bail on her for whatever next great opportunity is available.  He gave that Irish servant that watch to sell, but there's a difference between doing a kindness and being a stand-up guy.  I don't think Francotelli is the latter.

Wait, didn't he propose? And I gotta say, Skerritelli is giving off some real heat! Of all the kisses on this show....ROWR. That one under the stairs? I see Skerritt taking her chances for more of THAT!

 

On 3/6/2018 at 4:57 PM, Calamity Jane said:

We had a Danish family rent our house one year, and they hung the Christmas tree from the ceiling.  Right side up.

 

But how?? How does one properly anchor it? Was there a massive hole in your ceiling?

On 3/9/2018 at 12:12 PM, ExMathMajor said:

As with The Crown, this series has had me going "Did that really happen?" and looking things up. I didn't know that Ernest had VD, nor did I know about Albert's falling through the ice. I did know about Victoria's African goddaughter though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Forbes_Bonetta

This show is like Opposite World...the unlikelier the story seems, the better the chance it really happened!  Real life Sarah is as gorgeous as little actress Sarah!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, MamaMax said:

But how?? How does one properly anchor it? Was there a massive hole in your ceiling?

 

There were wood beams in the ceiling, so I'm assuming somehow they rigged something up anchoring the tree to that.  It's been a long, long time (1968), so my recollection is minimal.  It was impressive, though.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/7/2019 at 5:30 PM, MamaMax said:

Wait, didn't he propose? And I gotta say, Skerritelli is giving off some real heat! Of all the kisses on this show....ROWR. That one under the stairs? I see Skerritt taking her chances for more of THAT!

 

LOL... It is funny to me how people can view things so differently. I find Skerritelli’s kissing scenes to be painfully awkward — like they are eating each other’s faces. But, I am glad there are people out there rooting for them because I am often wondering why the show is alotting so much time on this fictional couple and trying to figure out how the real history (the chef going on to a career outside the palace and Mrs. Skerrett being the Queen Victoria’s dresser — and I assume single the whole time — into old age) is going to come out of this. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×