S02.E04: Still There

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Randall and Beth adjust to a new family dynamic; Kate books her first big gig; Kevin suffers a setback on his movie; Jack and Rebecca are visited by an unwelcome guest.

[Armchair Critic]

Kate's pregnant!?!

(that's one way to cover if the actress is not losing weight)

[mtlchick]

"Did Grandma shoot (Martin Luther King)?!" I may have laughed for a few minutes.  I can see why Lonnie Chavis is so busy he's only recurring on this show compared to the other child actors: he's too good that he's too busy with other roles!

Adult Kevin "I can do this, I'm a pretty tough guy" Cut to young Kevin: "I can't take this itching!"  

I'm still not sure what to think of the Deja part.  Beth clearly managed to get to her if she was allowed to touch her hair.  But I guess Deja didn't think Beth would share with Randall and felt she can't trust anyone.

Kate is pregnant?  But....but...it's not even sweeps yet!

Pretty good episode.

[Lady Calypso]

Oh, Kevin. You should have had your knee looked at sooner. I hate that he waited for so long, but my god, I totally get it because I could see myself doing the same thing. It's realistic, especially with what we know of Kevin's history. But it was nice to see that he was struggling to stay off the pain meds. It was good insight on his end to realize that it was better for him to not take them. I imagine he was making excuses about them clouding his head to draw focus away from the real reason. But I did enjoy Kevin/Toby talking about his football career. Another fantastic moment from Justin Hartley. I love that he's finally getting some good scenes to act out.

I completely teared up when Kevin was watching an old video of his dad watching his football game. I guess we definitely are down a pill addiction road now. 

Kid Kevin is simply wonderful and such a terrific little actor, as with Kid Randall and Kid Kate. But the last big Kid Kevin scene we got was, hey, the fourth episode of the first season! I'm hoping this isn't becoming a pattern. But really, that Kevin/Jack scene with them putting on their "faces" was so damn cute. I also loved the moment when him and Jack were shovelling snow, even while sick.

Man, I forgot how awful Rebecca's mother is. I can see how Rebecca unintentionally took after her in some ways. Her mother is ten times worse. It did allow for us to see Rebecca really protect her kids and not have her just the bad parent who makes all kinds of mistakes. I always love seeing Rebecca have her good mom moments. We didn't get as many last season as we could have. They're doing a much better job with Rebecca this season. I LOVED her scene with her mother and calling her out on her racism. A moment not about Jack, but about Rebecca! Though maybe Rebecca standing up to her was the wake-up call her mother needed? She did seem to be trying in that last scene, though it's a long road to forgiveness. 

I didn't hate Toby this episode either. What a surprise. I've accepted that he's going to say inappropriate things from time to time, so once I got past that, I find Toby less punchable. I did like that he was worried about Kate over-exercising to fit into a dress. She was clearly distracted by her own thoughts so she needed Toby by her side. 

I did like the Beth/Deja scene. The foster storyline is going better than I thought it would. I think Beth's first instinct is to be a parent, so even when Randall asked her to step back so he could be the parent first, she couldn't help herself. Plus, we saw Beth being very motherly toward Deja, and it did help her connect with her. I also loved having Beth scenes without Randall. We haven't really gotten it before, besides with William last season and that was only one episode. It helped me connect with Beth more too. 

Seriously, a strong episode all around, with moments that surprised even me. I don't think I hated a single main character here. Well, I'm disappointed that we had Kate so distracted by her big gig that she couldn't be there for Kevin during his recovery, so that sucked. And she's pregnant, and has known about it? Seriously? And she's told nobody? I'm not that impressed. Ok, maybe Kate still bugs me. But I guess they really want Kate to be a mom and at her age, it's probably better to do it now. So really, I'm not surprised. They'll want to see Kate break that cycle that Rebecca's mother started (or maybe it was started generations ago). It's just predictable. 

[mariah23]

Calling it now!  A boy named Jack.

[Katy M]

I loved this part:  "Someone killed Martin Luther King Jr....."  "Did grandma kill him?"  That cracked me up.

Kevin, Toby is right.  You need to follow the doctor's instructions.  Trying to speed it up will only make it worse.  But, I liked Kevin's story about his injury and not being able to play football anymore.  

I also liked getting more in the crazy grandma story.

Kate's pregnant.  Hope she tells Toby soon.  

[SimoneS]

Kate is pregnant! I'll take it. Anything for her to have a non-weight-related story. Poor Toby. Between Kate and Kevin, he doesn't know if he is coming or going.

I have had reservations about Beth and Randall being foster parents, but I am loving this story. Randall and Beth are such a great couple, complimenting each other's strengths and weaknesses

Mandy Moore was very good as Rebecca struggling with her mother's racism. I feel so bad for Randall, but when he asked if grandma shot Dr. King, I cracked the hell up.

Edited October 18, 2017 by SimoneS

[Neurochick]

Kate's pregnant, did not see that coming.

This may sound wrong but I'm sick of Deja; if I could wear my hair in braids like that, I wouldn't worry about anything.  WTF is wrong with that girl?

But, on the other hand, I think I get her.  If I suddenly were dropped in a foreign culture, I'd probably react like Deja.  See, Beth and Randall did what couples do, what parents do, they talk about their kids.  But Deja doesn't get that; she's grown up in dysfunction, she doesn't know what healthy parents are, she doesn't know what they do.  Her mother's been in and out of jail and Deja as been in survival mode all of her life.

[Dreamboat Annie]

Oh.my.God.  Sick Jack shovelling tirelessly in pain so they can get rid of the fucking racist beyotch.  And Kevin coming out to help.

I LOVE JACK. 

[debraran]

2 minutes ago, mariah23 said:

Calling it now!  A boy named Jack.

I just said that but would it be too much? lol

[Duke2801]

Edited because I misheard how far along Kate is. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Duke2801

[SlovakPrincess]

Deja's story stresses me out - I feel badly for her, I feel badly for Randall and Beth ... poor kid has understandable trust issues.

Kate's pregnant?  Well, I guess it was time to get her a new story, but I wasn't banking on two new kid stories this season.

I see this going in a bad direction for Kevin ... sigh.

The flashback story this week was more interesting to me than in prior weeks.

[Spartan Girl]

KATE IS PREGNANT?! Holy shit, did not see that coming.

I just got to say it: I don't hold with giving your kids chicken pox on purpose just to "get it out of the way". Even if you don't have insurance it's better to just get the damn vaccinations.

EDIT: I wasn't aware that the vaccination wasn't available back then. My bad.

Rebecca's mom is such a racist bitch. I'm glad she got told off. And her giving Kate the Ariel costume for her "goal size" brought back all the ire I felt watching Spanglish. Poor Randall. It's good Jack and Rebecca taught him that not all racism is up-front.

The video store scene made me feel old.

One step forward and two steps back with Deja. Poor Randall tries too hard.

I fear for Kevin.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, Duke2801 said:

Wow did that doctor say she's 6 months along? And she still hasn't told Toby? Yikes! 

I think the doctor said six weeks. I figure she found out about two weeks ago, so the end of last episode? 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Duke2801 said:

Wow did that doctor say she's 6 months along? And she still hasn't told Toby? Yikes! 

6 weeks.

[debraran]

6 weeks along. Unless I heard wrong. They can tell earlier now. If she obscessed with getting in shape now for the baby, that's fine, but the weight gain, etc. is either to hide she isn't losing or to have her lose and wear some padding and then later, she's thinner....or maybe that is too much thought on it.

[mariah23]

2 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

Wow did that doctor say she's 6 months along? And she still hasn't told Toby? Yikes! 

Six weeks 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

I just got to say it: I don't hold with giving your kids chicken pox on purpose just to "get it out of the way". Even if you don't have insurance it's better to just get the damn vaccinations.

The chicken Pox vaccine didn't come out until 95.  The kids were born in '80, I think, so I guess we can let it pass that they're not vaccinating their kids with a vaccine that doesn't exist yet.

[Dreamboat Annie]

Nope.  Still not caring about the fostering storyline.  Can do without it.  Maybe because there's enough going on in the stories I do care about?

[ByaNose]

I guess we know how Kate’s baby story ends, right? Not good. It must be hard to have an unbearable parent. You become an adult and you hope time & space helps but it’s not that easy. I wanted to scream and she’s not even my mother.

Edited October 18, 2017 by ByaNose

[debraran]

Was the hair cutting just because of Randall saying something? He does seem to empty himself on her every time he speaks. I had a father I didn't know, I had a nervous breakdown, two really....can we space this out? lol

Hair seems nice in next episode so I guess it is discussed and remedied.

Edited October 18, 2017 by debraran

[Straycat80]

'Did Grandma shoot him'? I love 10 year old Randall! 

I'm glad Kate is pregnant. I'm tired of her story focusing on her weight and low self esteem.  

[Quickbeam]

I absolutely inhaled the scene with Beth and Deja and hair. It was just perfect. Explaining alopecia, helping her manage her hair and hygiene. And as always, the kids were just flawless. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Quickbeam

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Straycat80 said:

'Did Grandma shoot him'? I love 10 year old Randall! 

I'm glad Kate is pregnant. I'm tired of her story focusing on her weight and low self esteem.  

I'm not sure why people think that Kate's pregnancy is going to lessen her focus on her weight.  She knew she was pregnant the entire episode and was not eating muffins and exercising 12 times a day.  I would think this is going to hyperfocus her, because now she's not just trying to get healthy for herself, but for her baby also.  And, the baby's going to sabotage her weight loss.  And want her to eat.  Selfish little baby.

[Scarlett45]

9 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

KATE IS PREGNANT?! Holy shit, did not see that coming.

I just got to say it: I don't hold with giving your kids chicken pox on purpose just to "get it out of the way". Even if you don't have insurance it's better to just get the damn vaccinations.

Rebecca's mom is such a racist bitch. I'm glad she got told off. And her giving Kate the Ariel costume for her "goal size" brought back all the ire I felt watching Spanglish. Poor Randall. It's good Jack and Rebecca taught him that not all racism is up-front.

The video store scene made me feel old.

One step forward and two steps back with Deja. Poor Randall tries too hard.

I fear for Kevin.

There were no vaccinations for chicken pox back then. I'm 32 and we were the "last" generation to get chicken pox before a widely available vaccine. I had to chuckle at that scene because my mom did the same thing (stuck me and my sister together so we would have it at the same time).  

[doodlebug]

9 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

KATE IS PREGNANT?! Holy shit, did not see that coming.

I just got to say it: I don't hold with giving your kids chicken pox on purpose just to "get it out of the way". Even if you don't have insurance it's better to just get the damn vaccinations.

The vaccination against chicken pox wasn't around when the triplets were 10, it came along a few years later.

[debraran]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I'm not sure whyeople think that Kate's pregnancy is going to lessen her focus on her weight.  She knew she was pregnant the entire episode and was not eating muffins and exercising 12 times a day.  I would think this is going to hyperfocus her, because now she's not just trying to get healthy for herself, but for her baby also.  And, the baby's going to sabotage her weight loss.  And want her to eat.  Selfish little baby.

I agree, they wont want her to gain much but it will be an issue. She also has issues still pending from her childhood and with raging hormones, I"m sure there will be weight centered issues and maybe issues with delivery. Sometimes other medical issues surface with pregnancy

Edited October 18, 2017 by debraran

[Katy M]

Just now, Scarlett45 said:

There were no vaccinations for chicken pox back then. I'm 32 and we were the "last" generation to get chicken pox before a widely available vaccine. I had to chuckle at that scene because my mom did the same thing (stuck me and my sister together so we would have it at the same time).

I chuckled at Randall chasing Kate to get chicken pox.  My sister chased me around the house to give it to me.  I then chased her around the house to give it back, as I think she was over it by the time I got sick.  My mom told me I couldn't give it back.  Well, screw that, I'm going to try anyway.  Never tell a 5 year old they can't do something.

[SlovakPrincess]

2 minutes ago, debraran said:

Was the hair cutting just because of Randall saying something? He does seem to empty himself on her every time he speaks. I had a father I didn't know, I had a nervous breakdown, two really....can we space this out? lol

Hair seems nice in next episode so I guess it is discussed and remedied.

Deja felt betrayed by Beth telling Randall about their discussion -- about how Deja confided that she was stressed out and her hair fell out more when she was stressed.  She said it softly so it was hard to hear, but Deja's reaction was "She (Beth) told you what I said?!"    

Annie and Tess would probably take for granted that their parents discuss them and relay information to each other ... but Deja hasn't had an intact family and seems to have an especially hard time warming up to Randall.  

I think Randall is trying to reach out to Deja in the only way he can think of, by sharing his own vulnerabilities.  But it's not really having an impact.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, SlovakPrincess said:

but Deja hasn't had an intact family and seems to have an especially hard time warming up to Randall.  

Not really suprising.  We don't know what her other foster families have been like, but we know she doesn't have a father at home.  If her mom has skeevy boyfriends, I'd be reluctant to trust men, too.

[debraran]

1 minute ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Deja felt betrayed by Beth telling Randall about their discussion -- about how Deja confided that she was stressed out and her hair fell out more when she was stressed.  She said it softly so it was hard to hear, but Deja's reaction was "She (Beth) told you what I said?!"    

Annie and Tess would probably take for granted that their parents discuss them and relay information to each other ... but Deja hasn't had an intact family and seems to have an especially hard time warming up to Randall.  

I think Randall is trying to reach out to Deja in the only way he can think of, by sharing his own vulnerabilities.  But it's not really having an impact.

Thanks, I missed that. Yes men in her life probably weren't like Randall and she probably felt a bond with Beth and then it broke. The rollercoaster ride will continue.  Poor Randall, she doesn't need to bond over bad stuff they share, he has to build on good things too.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

There were no vaccinations for chicken pox back then. I'm 32 and we were the "last" generation to get chicken pox before a widely available vaccine. I had to chuckle at that scene because my mom did the same thing (stuck me and my sister together so we would have it at the same time).  

I was born in '93 and I ended up getting chicken pox when I was two along with my sister for the exact same reason. I think that was around the time of the chicken pox vaccination. 

[Packerbrewerbadger]

My daughter is the triplet's age and she got chicken pox in 5 th grade along with a lot of classmates ( no vaccine then).  2 weeks later, my 2nd grade son got them along with everyone in his class with a older sibling ( or maybe it was reversed) but either way chicken pox is very contagious and easing the itching is very difficult!

[doodlebug]

Just now, Katy M said:

Not really suprising.  We don't know what her other foster families have been like, but we know she doesn't have a father at home.  If her mom has skeevy boyfriends, I'd be reluctant to trust men, too.

Yep, I think we're going to discover that her mother brought a guy(s) into her life who treated her badly, maybe even abused her  And, maybe that her mother overshared with him about Deja and it lead to a bad situation for her.  Hence, Deja is afraid to  appear vulnerable in front of Randall.

[stonehaven]

Good episode and Randall and Beth are great together....but Mandy Moore owned the episode for me. Loved her talking to her mother...not yelling..but just talking to her..honestly.....and then avoiding her....

Although, just once....I want her to have the line, "This is how I deal"....

As for Kevin's storyline, it looks to go a little dark but I am willing to go along with with it.....Overall, a decent episode with growth in characters but not a lot of action...found myself looking at the clock a few times.

[debraran]

Every time they said, "I need you to itch me" I remembered my mom saying, "You scratch an itch" ; )

[movingtargetgal]

19 minutes ago, Dreamboat Annie said:

Oh.my.God.  Sick Jack shovelling tirelessly in pain so they can get rid of the fucking racist beyotch.  And Kevin coming out to help.

I LOVE JACK. 

Mr. Moving and I called it "Operation:  Get Racist Bitch Grandma the F*ck Out of Our House".

[SlovakPrincess]

1 minute ago, debraran said:

Thanks, I missed that. Yes men in her life probably weren't like Randall and she probably felt a bond with Beth and then it broke. The rollercoaster ride will continue.  Poor Randall, she doesn't need to bond over bad stuff they share, he has to build on good things too.

Yeah, they should maybe just focus on making Deja feel as safe as possible in her new home, and let her let her guard down on her own schedule.  Randall really wants to relate to Deja, but on a fundamental level he really can't.  For everything he's been through, he doesn't know what it's like to not have any trustworthy adults around or a stable home.  He knew growing up that Jack and Rebecca would protect him no matter what.     

[methodwriter85]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

The chicken Pox vaccine didn't come out until 95.  The kids were born in '80, I think, so I guess we can let it pass that they're not vaccinating their kids with a vaccine that doesn't exist yet.

Wow. Pretty funny- I definitely remember the chicken pox vaccine being around, but I was born in '85 so it was there by the time I was 10. I had a pretty bad case of it when I was 3 or 4 so it's not something I had to worry about.

Deja's hair always looked like a wig to me, so I'm not shocked she chopped her "hair" off. I get taking out your angst on your hair.

Kevin's desperation makes sense. He's 37 and a pretty boy, where 22-year old pretty boys come out of the woodwork every year.

[virginia blue]

I love Randall, but he has shown no ability to connect with Deja. When Beth was with Deja, she was able to express that she understood Deja’s condition, reassure her that it was normal, and show her that she could help. Even though she was talking about her family and her sister, it was really about Deja. When Randall talks to her he’s all about himself. Why would he tell this child he’s had two nervous breakdowns? What is she supposed to do with that?

[debraran]

I remember when my biracial son was Randall's age, a little younger, a white woman in my playgroup said as my son made a shot with a nerf basketball, "you better keep that up so you can get a basketball scholarship" I said, I'd rather he used his brain" which made her look quizzical,  and then commented I hoped her son also played well. She was confused why. 

People say the dumbest things.
 

Edited October 18, 2017 by debraran

[Duke2801]

28 minutes ago, mariah23 said:

Six weeks 

Ahhhhb ok that makes more sense!

[BuckeyeLou]

I enjoy every episode, I feel like Rebecca got a chance to 'shine" this week.  She stood up to her Mother and protected her children.  The actress playing Rebecca's Mom is very good & convincing as a "snooty Mom".     I am surprised by the Kate pregnancy storyline, I did not see that coming!  I don't know what I think of that...isn't there enough going on in her life, without a baby too?    I admit to tears in the eyes when Kevin was watching his video of his football glory days & how proud Jack was of him.  All the kids wanted Jack to be proud of them.    And again, I ask, did I miss something about Toby?  What the heck does he do for a living?!  He seems to have a nice apartment, but he was just hanging around all day, cooking for Kate, caring for Kevin, doesn't he have a job he needs to go to?  Or are we supposed to assume he works from home?

[Amethyst]

These are the kind of flashbacks that work, just showing Jack as a father.  It doesn't have to revolve around the Great Mystery of his death all the time.  I love seeing him with the kids.

Poor Kevin.  It's not just that he was a great football player, he clearly links those happy memories of his father to playing football.  And it was probably one of the few times that Kevin was the focus and not his siblings, which made those moments all the more special.  Looks like he saw the dangers of the pills early on, but seeing the old videos with Jack pushed him over the edge.  This doesn't bode well.

Eh to Kate's pregnancy.  At least she's happy about it.

I think Randall just needs to back off and let Deja be.  If she only wants to confide in Beth, then that's how it has to be for now.  She's not recoiling in fear around him anymore, but it's only been a week or so since she arrived.  She'll open up to Randall when she's ready.

Good for Rebecca for putting her foot down.  Her mother's issues are hers alone to deal with, and Randall shouldn't have to put up with that.  Loved his little "What took you so long?" to his grandmother.  Knowing how awful her own mother is, I wonder if Rebecca took that into account when she and Kate argued a few weeks ago.

7 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

Mandy Moore owned the episode for me. Loved her talking to her mother...not yelling..but just talking to her..honestly.....and then avoiding her....

She was very good tonight.  When Rebecca took Randall upstairs after the confrontation, it looked like she was trying really hard not to cry in front of him.  Sad, but impressive.

[Laurie4H]

I don’t know how Jack could be out their shoveling with a fever.  Even with Tylenol you would still be weak.

I wonder if Kate will have the baby or will there by complications.

[movingtargetgal]

1 minute ago, Laurie4H said:

I don’t know how Jack could be out their shoveling with a fever.  Even with Tylenol you would still be weak.

Jack was REALLY motivated to get that woman away from his wife and kids.  If all he had to shovel with was a teaspoon he would have gladly used it, in record time, so he could protect his family from any further abuse.

[Cardie]

43 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Even if you don't have insurance it's better to just get the damn vaccinations.

Did they have chicken pox vaccinations then?  I grew up when there was nothing to prevent measles, mumps, and chicken pox and doctors did want kids just to get them and get over them.  I don't have kids so am a bit fuzzy on the chronology of vaccines.

[WhosThatGirl]

I’m still not entirely happy about this season but tonight was better.

That scene whenever Daja walked out with her braids all cut off and Beth’s face was heartbreaking. Like her heart was shattered. But.. I don’t know, I assumed Randall would have told her of what had happened and their conversation. 

Kevin is obviously not okay. I assumed that Kevin’s rewrite was him getting killed in the movie. Kevin and Kate can sure be dramatic at things. Hey Toby maybe you should think about the family you’re marrying into. 

Not sure how I feel about Kate’s pregnancy.

Hee. Okay so before the kids even opened their gifts the people I was watching with surmised that Randall was getting a basketball and so I had a good laugh when he did. Also when he asked if Grandma shot MLK. 

[General Days]

3 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Did they have chicken pox vaccinations then?  I grew up when there was nothing to prevent measles, mumps, and chicken pox and doctors did want kids just to get them and get over them.  I don't have kids so am a bit fuzzy on the chronology of vaccines.

It was licensed for use in the US in 1995. I started having kids a little bit after that and at first, their doctor didn't advise it for otherwise healthy kids. Later, she changed her mind, after the Pediatrics Academy's recommendation. Various states made it mandatory for public school students as time passed. The Big Three couldn't have gotten it before they contracted the disease. 

[doodlebug]

5 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Did they have chicken pox vaccinations then?  I grew up when there was nothing to prevent measles, mumps, and chicken pox and doctors did want kids just to get them and get over them.  I don't have kids so am a bit fuzzy on the chronology of vaccines.

I remember when my sister's kids, now in their mid 30's, were in school.  The moms would actually have 'pox parties' where kids who hadn't had the chicken pox were sent to play at the homes of kids who had them so they would catch it and get it over with.