S04.E03: It's for the Greater Good

[Bort]

Quote

Annalise takes on a case for the greater good and quickly realizes the stakes are much higher than she originally thought. Meanwhile, Laurel asks Michaela to help get information regarding Wes’s death and Connor makes a major life decision that is not supported by the group. In a flash-forward, a surprising confrontation during the night of the crime is revealed.

[Neurochick]

Damn, don’t mess with Annalise, or Laurel or Michela.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Neurochick

[truthaboutluv]

Good episode. The season is really picking up. So Connor's father is gay. I don't remember that being referenced at all when they showed him with his family at Christmas, in Season 1. But now that I think about it, I think we only saw his sister and a house full of people that weren't specifically identified. It was completely unsurprising that the woman from last week's episode went back to using and died. Depressing but a sad reality of life. Truth is, after the life she'd had, jail probably was the safest place for her. At least she was clean there. 

I'm really not here for a revisit of Laurel and Frank while she's pregnant with Wes' baby. I'm sorry, there's just something very icky about that. And it doesn't help that I was never really a fan of Laurel and Frank. In fact, I'm starting to realize that I've never truly shipped any couple from this show. I'm just here for the mystery and mayhem. Speaking of mystery, I hope the lawyer Michaela is getting close to doesn't end up dead or corrupt or some other twist because I actually like her. But of course this show wouldn't be this show if that isn't exactly what ends up happening. 

I'm wondering if the blood in the elevator at Annalise's apartment came from Laurel because maybe she went into some type of premature labor and that is also the blood on Michaela. She seems a bit too traumatized for it to just be Laurel's going into a premature labor but who knows what the circumstances that led to the premature labor. Because we all know this stuff is going to come to a head with Michaela working on that case, to try and get information on Laurel's dad.

Edited October 13, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Neurochick]

In that last scene, didn’t Michaela look like she’d been beaten?

Edited October 13, 2017 by Neurochick

[Annber03]

Okay, so Jasmine dying shocked the hell out of me. Damnit. I liked her. I was rooting for her. That hurt. 

And Michaela at the end. Dear god, I want to hug her, too. That was a truly unsettling ending.

(On a lighter note, loved seeing her rocking her new job for much of the episode.)

The whole scene with Annalise and her therapist towards the end was really well done. Great back and forth between Davis and Smits there. And Annalise and Bonnie at odds will never not be fascinating. Liked watching them both get wrapped up in that case this episode. 

LOL at Asher being all unknowingly awkward in front of Connor's dads, and intrigued to see his dads show up as well. Given Connor's current state of mind, perfect time to get a pep talk from them (if they're the sort to give pep talks, that is), and figure out where he wants to go from here. Guy looks so lost. 

[stonehaven]

There were some good lines...good moments but a lot of this show seemed to either drag or retread on themes or plots from the last few seasons...and I will say it again, I really cannot stand that shrink character..He seems way, way off....

[DearEvette]

Is there no in-between with the people?  Either they are ride or die for Analise or they go completely from zero to 100 and are into revenge/bitter mode.  Bonnie and Nate were petty as fuck.  Nate why do you even keep putting yourself in Anna's orbit if you hate her so much?

Laurel's mopey childishness is already old.  Glad Anna called her on it.  And now she's dragging Michaela down with her so that poor Michaela can't even enjoy her new job.

I am loving Amirah Vann's presence as Tegan.  Holy cow!!  So fierce!!

Connor has two dads!  Did we know this?  Also good casting.  The one who mentioned about the tuition money looked like he and Jack Falahee could be related.

[HunterHunted]

On what grounds did Marianne Jean Baptiste get an appeal for her client? You know what would have worked? Ineffective assistance of counsel. You can't just show videos even in chambers. MJB still had to lay a foundation for the video and the prosecution has to get a chance to examine it. Couldn't they say that it was from a bank security camera. As an ATM camera, it sucked. It was pointed 4 stories up.

2 minutes ago, RogerDodger said:

This.  I can understand their animosity towards Analise.  I can even understand that if they truly thought her client was guilty, offering up a motive to tank her case (even if obtained unethically). However, they knew the client's daughter would be in the courtroom and arranging to have her paternity questioned in open court was a low blow.  

It was lowdown and mostly unnecessary because they managed to convict him before without the paternity information being brought up and especially like they did. 

16 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Good episode. The season is really picking up. So Connor's father is gay. I don't remember that being referenced at all when they showed him with his family at Christmas, in Season 1. But now that I think about it, I think we only saw his sister and a house full of people that weren't specifically identified.

I never got the sense that Connor's parents were gay in season 1. 

Lagos is a massive city and there is a ton of oil business in Nigeria. However, most international firms find a big reputable local firm and partner with them because stuff in Nigeria never seems to make any damn sense. They also do this because there is a bunch of shit American companies can't do in foreign countries that you might have to do in Nigeria. 

[Dee]

Marianne Jean Baptiste AND Amirah Vann? If nothing else, this show has wonderful guest/recurring actors.

[secnarf]

49 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

So Connor's father is gay.

Connor's fathers are gay (or at least, not straight).

42 minutes ago, stonehaven said:

There were some good lines...good moments but a lot of this show seemed to either drag or retread on themes or plots from the last few seasons...and I will say it again, I really cannot stand that shrink character..He seems way, way off....

I agree. I can't trust him at all. I'm convinced (somewhat irrationally?) that he is evil.

I really disliked Marianne Jean-Baptiste's character on Broadchurch, so I wasn't too keen to see her as another lawyer. At least this one wasn't quite so self-pitying.

As soon as Laurel mentioned Kigali I knew it would end up winning Michaela the contest. Although when the scene happened, she did have me wondering if she was going to deliberately blow it, even though that would be very much unlike Michaela.

[possibilities]

Connor has two daddies! And one of them was one of the dads on "Switched at Birth". I'm happy about this. Also, good use of Asher.

I never got the sense that Connor's parents were gay in season 1. 

How would we get a sense of the gender or orientation of anyone's parents if we never met them and hadn't been told anything about them?

Could a class action suit like Anna proposes actually work? If so, wouldn't it have been tried already? I have to admit I like this side of Annalise, though. Not necessarily the part of her that is OK with sacrificial lambs, but the part of her that feels better working for justice. She isn't healthy, but she seems healthier than she's been in a while, if you ask me.

I'm used to Connor's new look and it doesn't bother me anymore. I actually got over my objections last week, but I was surprised so I decided to wait another episode before deciding I don't even notice it anymore.

Michaela at the end of the episode was the most shocking thing to me this week.

Laurel is so whiny. And I don't trust her at all. Why didn't she go to the interview and try to get the job herself if she wanted to be on the inside at that firm? Does she just want to shift the risk onto Michaela? They'd better not destroy Michaela this season. After Wes, it will be too much of a pattern.

Edited October 13, 2017 by possibilities

[tennisgurl]

I loved the whole intervention scene, especially Ashers written part because "when they did this with my sister, the family could talk first"! It was funny, but also rather sweet that the gang cared enough to bother with their intervendinner. Michaelas attitude was great. She was basically like "Stop being stupid and get your act together! Your forcing me to admit that I care about you!" I generally liked everyone's interactions this episode, they all seemed to be on the same page, more or less, for the first time in awhile. Everyone was so horrified by Connor dropping out! 

I also really enjoyed Asher and Connor hanging out at the gay club getting drunk, only for Connors dads to show up. We never got any indicator before that Connor had two dads, but we never got the indicator that he didnt, so who knows? All we know about Connors family is that he has a big extended family, gets along with his big sister and her kids, and his dad (one of them) is a lawyer. Its implied they have some money. Thats about it. 

Poor Jasmine. Thats super depressing, even if its somewhat predictable. She finally got a chance, and it was too late. No wonder Anna was so messed up when she spoke with her therapist. And no wonder she kept acting like she was about to fight someone the whole episode. 

Oh sweet Jesus, what happened in THIS flashback? Is it the baby thats dead, or someone else? How many more people are going to get murdered? 

Edited October 13, 2017 by tennisgurl

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Connor has two daddies! And one of them was one of the dads on "Switched at Birth". I'm happy about this. Also, good use of Asher.

How would we get a sense of the gender or orientation of anyone's parents if we never met them and hadn't been told anything about them?

In Best Christmas Ever from season 1, we see Connor at home at the family Christmas party. We knew his father is an attorney. He has an older sister who is married with 2 kids. When he mentions Oliver to his sister, he makes her promise to not tell their mom because she'll start planning a Coliver wedding. I guess it's possible that his dad and mom divorced amicably and that his dad remarried a man, but he definitely has a mom in the picture.

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Laurel is so whiny. And I don't trust her at all. Why didn't she go to the interview and try to get the job herself if she wanted to be on the inside at that firm? Does she just want to shift the risk onto Michaela? 

Because that firm would never let Laurel near any of her father's businesses and legal matters, especially if he's as shady as Laurel has let on. Additionally, there are a whole host of her father's competitors that Laurel can't work on because of conflict of interest issues. She's much more likely to uncover something by having Michaela look for it.

[NUguy514]

Oh my holy god, Joe McCoy is Connor's dad!!  And married to a MAN!!  <3 <3 <3  I wonder if Tami and Coach know about this...

The dinnervention scene was everything, as was any scene of Asher and Connor at the gay bar.

[Star Aristille]

Well.  They sure answered the question of what happened to the baby more quickly than I'd expected.  I really thought they'd drag it out to the fall finale.  But Wes and Laurel's baby died?  That's just . . . I don't know the words for it.

[Coxfires]

So basically Laurel and Annalise now share a the loss of a child  in common, wonder how that will play out in the future and their interactions 

[apn85]

59 minutes ago, Star Aristille said:

Well.  They sure answered the question of what happened to the baby more quickly than I'd expected.  I really thought they'd drag it out to the fall finale.  But Wes and Laurel's baby died?  That's just . . . I don't know the words for it.

I'm not convinced that the baby dies. I'm actually leaning more toward the baby survives. I think we found out it's a boy this episode so that when Michaela was saying "he" at the end we'd think it was the baby she was speaking about. I'm confused on where exactly Laurel is and how she got there. Frank being the only one there with her makes me wonder if he found her and brought her in or if he was her emergency contact or something (because I do think they are going back down that road. I don't know about romantically, but I think Laurel and Frank are going to form a friendship and that he's going to become a support to her. Also, when I think about it, she doesn't really have anyone else. No family. Wes is gone & had no family. The other 3 members of the K4 have their own stuff to deal with. So, I think it's gonna fall to Frank.) and someone else found her and he came as soon as they called him. I am just so thoroughly confused. 

I do hate that Laurel has roped Michaela into this. I really do. I think Michaela is still very driven and wants that career and Laurel couldn't care less. She comes from money and has money, so what's it to her to drop out of law school? Michaela has so much potential and I just hate to see her in more trouble. 

I'm also confused on Laurel's animosity toward Annalise. I don't know if it's because Laurel feels like Annalise has moved on when she should still be grieving Wes or if it's something else, but she was completely out of line in the bathroom. Laurel has a problem with that, actually. Not just with Annalise, but she's done it with others. When she is hurt/angry, she lashes out and hits below the belt. Just like I couldn't believe she honestly asked Frank why he didn't call her when the last time he spoke to her was when he came to see her in the hospital and she told him she wished it had been him to die and that it was his fault Wes died and that she loved Wes more than she ever loved him. Then she lied to have him thrown in prison. I thought are you seriously asking him why he didn't call you?!?!?!?!?! He actually deserves praise for not slamming the door in her face the moment he saw it was her standing there! 

Also, I had to add, when she walked in she said, "So, it's true. You and Bonnie are playing house." all snippy and then his phone rings, "New girlfriend?" She's sitting there pregnant with another guy's child!!!!!!!!! WTH right did she have to say anything to him? She lost any claim she had on him when she dumped him back in Season 2 and then crapped all over him in Season 3!  It truly blew my mind. The whole interaction. And it's a bad day when I have to come to Frank's defense all because he honestly had done nothing to deserve her crap!

Edited October 13, 2017 by apn85
Added more reasons Laurel needs to check herself!

[wanderingstar]

Oh Annalise, how could you do Marianne Jean-Baptiste like that! I heard a report last year about the crisis many public defenders' offices are facing across the country, so I'm glad the writers shined a light on this issue. 

Please tell me they're not going the Frank/Laurel route again.

I really do love watching Viola Davis and Jimmy Smits spar. I don't trust Isaac, but he's kind of right - Annalise is a control freak who hates to be vulnerable. I get why she's trying to assert some control over their sessions.

Great seeing Amirah Vann as the Caplan & Gold lawyer, Teagan Price. My guess is she'll mentor Michaela for a while, until AK/K4 shenanigans mess it up.

I think it's selfish of Laurel to ask Michaela to jeopardize her opportunity with Caplan & Gold so Laurel can exact revenge on her father. 

Bonnie & Annalise showdown was great. I loved when Annalise said "I'll beat your ass! How about THAT!" God, that was funny. Nate playing referee was also amusing.

Based on the flashforward of a bloody, sobbing Michaela, I'm starting to think Laurel's baby doesn't make it.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Gillian Rosh
Fixing typo

[Keepitmoving]

What the hell? That's all I got, and I got one foot out the door when it comes to this show. Fuck around royally with Michaela and the other foot will soon follow. I already don't watch the other two shows in Shondaland, cause I never got into Scandal so...

And if Asher isn't written to be taking care of Michaela when all this shit hits the fan he can go ahead and pack his shit, and "call Tyrone," or his fucking Bon, Bon.

Speaking of Bon Bon, when the hell will she stop playing second , no make that third to the other two women in Frank's life that he clearly cares more about? God, I hate to see women play second best, hate it.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Keepitmoving]

So how does that doctor know Michaela's name? Because he does call her by her name after ridiculously mistaking her for Anna. Not even The back of Mickey's head gets him off the hook for me, she and Anna still don't look alike, cut the shit Peter. First, Mickey is several, several feet shorter than Anna even in heels. 

But it is interesting that the Dr.knows her name in that flash forward.

[DearEvette]

There is obviously a point sometime in the future where Dr. Jimmy Smits gets to know the K4.  Frank knew to go to him and trust him enough with Laurel.

But where are they?  Michaela is obviously in a hospital of some sort in a maternity ward -- it still loos rather antiseptic and creepy, though.  And is the 'He' she is referring to, the baby? (I am not ashamed to say I am hoping it is Simon, he obviously has a role to play this season and antagonists to the K4 don't fare too well, mortally speaking).   She looks utterly shell shocked.  It seems like she was present when whatever happened to Laurel happened. 

[NodakFan]

Technically we don't know Connor's dads are gay.  It could simply be that Connor's parents are amicably divorced and his dad and his mothers new husband ("dad") came up to tell him to get his shit together.  

Of course I assume they are two dads in the "traditional" sense and are a couple.

[rur]

6 hours ago, apn85 said:

Also, I had to add, when she walked in she said, "So, it's true. You and Bonnie are playing house." all snippy and then his phone rings, "New girlfriend?" She's sitting there pregnant with another guy's child!!!!!!!!! WTH right did she have to say anything to him? She lost any claim she had on him when she dumped him back in Season 2 and then crapped all over him in Season 3!  

I'm still halfway expecting to find out that the baby is really Frank's child.

[Empress1]

I didn't think Jasmine would make it. She was what, late 50s, no work history, no skills, no support system? Recidivism was probable. Sad but true.

Amirah Vann is so beautiful and I want her lipstick. It'll be interesting to see Michaela work under what I hope is a positive role model.

I love Marianne Jean-Baptiste. Annalise was ready to fight a lot in this episode (I kind of wanted her to clock Bonnie).

i didn't know Connor had two dads. I also don't mind that Connor dropped out, but I'm curious to see how his dads handle it.

[geekburger]

Isn’t this the same “mystery” as last season?

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, so my first thought when Michaela said that "he's dead" wasn't Baby Wes, but Connor or Asher. I know she was standing in front of the nursery, but my brain didn't go to baby. Otherwise, the show would have had Michaela say "He's dead? The baby's dead, isn't he?". Or, it'll be the actual baby who is dead and I'm just theorizing over nothing. 

Though I agree that it could be that Laurel prematurely delivered the baby, Michaela was there and witnessed it, and is traumatized. 

So, it turns out that Isaac will have met Laurel, Frank, and Michaela, at the very least before the flashforward. I presume he'll also meet everyone else.

So, Connor drops out of law school and the group, including Frank for some odd reason, stages a "dinnervention". Smart idea to include food, because it got Connor to stick around. I did chuckle at Connor trashing Frank for being at the dinnervention, only to compliment him on his meatballs right after. 

Also, we meet Connor's dads in a strip club. Hi John Kennish! 

I'm surprised Jasmine died so quickly after getting her life back, but I guess without the support she needed, she was doomed to relapse into the life she grew up in. 

I loved the Caplan and Gold scenes. I mean, Simon kind of dragged, but he didn't get all that much to do. I guess he really is going to be a foil for Michaela, which is fine. I like how she chose someone who was supporting her. Granted, I think she's the only woman lawyer in that business (or at least the top one) so I hope it's a good experience for Michaela, and it's not ruined with Michaela probably giving in, helping Laurel, and jeopardizing her career. Either way, I'm always happy for more Michaela, even if it's unfortunately with Laurel.

Speaking of that, Laurel can go stuff it. I get it; she's grieving over Wes and now is carrying his child. But girl, if you want that information on your father and to bring him down, maybe you should have done it yourself. Also, you can shut up about Frank. 

I liked the Annalise/Isaac scene. I'm still debating whether he'll be bad for Annalise, or she'll be bad for him...or, I guess both. 

[apn85]

3 hours ago, rur said:

I'm still halfway expecting to find out that the baby is really Frank's child.

I always thought it would be the better story. Frank going to be a Father and then something tragic happens and the baby dies. Would have brought him full circle with Annalise. I honestly believe they made it belong to Wes so they would have a reason to drag out his death and this drama with Laurel's Father. I'll always believe Laurel being involved in some type of accident and Frank being told by someone so he could rush there and run into the hospital (almost the way Sam had to do with Annalise) to discover Laurel made it but the baby didn't would have made for some honest to good drama. It would have also made him truly realize the depth of Annalise's pain, which he cannot understand. I believe he's absolutely remorseful, but if he truly knew, I don't think he'd keep trying to push his way back into Annalise's life. 

Oh well. Writer's didn't agree, haha! 

Someone mentioned it above, but I am also wondering now if Michaela was with Laurel and maybe even had to deliver the baby or if she was the one to find them and she was doing all she could to keep them both alive until help arrived. Whatever it was, she's covered in blood and traumatized. The only thing that doesn't add up to me with such a traumatic explanation for everything is Laurel doesn't look THAT bad off. I'd think if she'd been cut open and her baby taken, or if she'd given birth and lost a lot of blood, she'd be in worse shape physically. Based on her surroundings, she could even be in a psychiatric ward. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by apn85

[Chick2Chic]

I enjoyed the episode. I'm also really liking the addition of Amirah Vann to the cast as I loved her on Underground. 

Also, I am going to need Laurel to die at the end of this season. I just CANNOT with her anymore. 

[Keepitmoving]

That new lawyer, Mickey's boss, she's gotta be more involved in it all, because it seems like Laurel's father is her client. Mickey specifically asked her to work on the account she used the name of company. It's all shady, it's HTGAWM.

And yes, if there really is/was a baby,and Laurel was drugged and gave birth, why does Mickey worse than her in every possible way. She looks like she needs a hospital bed. Iran where did she come from? Why does that Dr. even looked surprised to see her and it wasn't just the blood. He was surprised to see it was her instead of Anna before he noticed the blood. Where did come from? Where was she? Clearly Laurel has been unconscious for a bit, so where was bloodied Mickey  during that time? Why does it seem like it's unexpected to see her there? Was she not with Laurel when Laurel was found? 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[helenamonster]

Damn, Annalise can dish it out but absolutely cannot take it. How many times has she used unethical and downright illegal methods to win cases? But as soon as Nate, Bonnie, and Oliver do it against her and not for her, it's suddenly a problem. I don't like that an innocent man got caught up in the middle of it, but she can have several seats on that issue. She hates losing at her own game.

Otherwise I'm enjoying an Annalise who really does want to get back on the right track. A class-action lawsuit against the entire US justice system is, uh, a little much, but for once I actually feel like her heart is the right place. Helping others will help herself and get her to move past this severely dark period she's been in since the show started. Of course, this show being this show means that none of it can last, but I'll enjoy it while we have it.

I think Michaela's win at Caplan and Gold worked on a lot of fronts. She probably would have wanted to work for that lawyer anyway, even if Ataris wasn't her client, and Laurel gave her the answer that helped her to get that bump. Again, it will go pear-shaped because we all know what show we're watching, but right now it has the potential to be a good thing all around for everyone.

I really don't get the panic over Connor dropping out. Can anyone blame him? He's always been simultaneously the person who's been most emotionally effected by all that they've gone through while also being the most emotionally detached regarding the interpersonal relationships of the K5 and Annalise/Bonnie/Frank. Sure, it was a sudden and rash decision (and he shouldn't be spending his days drinking at strip clubs), but so little of their law school time has been genuinely positive. I say good for him. Let him find another calling. He's young and smart, with some guidance from his friends, Oliver, and his dads, he'll find his way.

Okay, flashforward guess time: Annalise and Isaac (for reasons unknown) give Laurel drugs to induce labor, then run off (again, reasons unknown). Laurel tries to escape and Michaela finds her in the elevator and helps her give birth. The baby doesn't make it and Frank finds them and takes them all to the hospital. Sometime between now and then, Isaac meets at least Frank, Laurel, and Michaela, and probably the rest of the crew as well. I think it's a little confusing right now because we've only seen him in his office with Annalise, so there's no way to figure out yet how he gets involved with everyone else.

[Keepitmoving]

I think Anna goes nuts and takes that baby. That therapist may make a true point or two about her but he's shady as hell. His "therapy" is about to fry her brain. Who the hell was he so intimately speaking to on the phone about Anna before there first session? Sorry, that wasn't her parole officer or review board, shady. I don't know how to read that expression on her face after Laurel shits all over her then tells her the baby is a boy. I tell ya how I don't read it, I don't think her expression had a damn thing to do with Wes. I don't think if had a thing to do with caring that Wes won't be around to raise his son. 

 

"Keep your professor FAR....away..."

Yeah that sounds like the professor is a dangerous threat.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

15 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Good episode. The season is really picking up. So Connor's father is gay. I don't remember that being referenced at all when they showed him with his family at Christmas, in Season 1. But now that I think about it, I think we only saw his sister and a house full of people that weren't specifically identified. It was completely unsurprising that the woman from last week's episode went back to using and died. Depressing but a sad reality of life. Truth is, after the life she'd had, jail probably was the safest place for her. At least she was clean there. 

I'm really not here for a revisit of Laurel and Frank while she's pregnant with Wes' baby. I'm sorry, there's just something very icky about that. And it doesn't help that I was never really a fan of Laurel and Frank. In fact, I'm starting to realize that I've never truly shipped any couple from this show. I'm just here for the mystery and mayhem. Speaking of mystery, I hope the lawyer Michaela is getting close to doesn't end up dead or corrupt or some other twist because I actually like her. But of course this show wouldn't be this show if that isn't exactly what ends up happening. 

I'm wondering if the blood in the elevator at Annalise's apartment came from Laurel because maybe she went into some type of premature labor and that is also the blood on Michaela. She seems a bit too traumatized for it to just be Laurel's going into a premature labor but who knows what the circumstances that led to the premature labor. Because we all know this stuff is going to come to a head with Michaela working on that case, to try and get information on Laurel's dad.

They never mentioned his father before other than earlier this season when they said he was an attorney. The Xmas episode back in season 1 had mention of his mother so it could be said they were at his mother's for the holiday's. 

I'm not getting a sense of revisiting Laurel & Frank. I think Laurel is pretty much out cray at this point and just reaching out to any and everyone who she thinks can help her. 

15 hours ago, Neurochick said:

In that last scene, didn’t Michaela look like she’d been beaten?

Looks like smudged makeup to me.

10 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

Well.  They sure answered the question of what happened to the baby more quickly than I'd expected.  I really thought they'd drag it out to the fall finale.  But Wes and Laurel's baby died?  That's just . . . I don't know the words for it.

I don't know. It could be a red herring. I'm still not 100% certain where they are going with the pregnancy storyline. As much as I really am nt interested in a baby in the mix, I really don't want another traumatic birth/ dead infant.

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I didn't think Jasmine would make it. She was what, late 50s, no work history, no skills, no support system? Recidivism was probable. Sad but true.

Amirah Vann is so beautiful and I want her lipstick. It'll be interesting to see Michaela work under what I hope is a positive role model.

I love Marianne Jean-Baptiste. Annalise was ready to fight a lot in this episode (I kind of wanted her to clock Bonnie).

i didn't know Connor had two dads. I also don't mind that Connor dropped out, but I'm curious to see how his dads handle it.

This. @HunterHunted talks about the many legal inaccuracies the show has. I'm sitting here wondering why they wouldn't have placed Jasmine into some sort of halfway house or reentry program. When they said AK needed to ID a dead body I knew it was going to be Jasmine,. What was a over 50 woman who entire life has been drugs and prostitution supposed to do? She literally didn't know anything else. 

I love Amirah Vann and so far her Tegan character is terrific. This is the perfect lawyer role model Micheal needs. On the other hand I'm sad to see the actors of Underground getting new work because it means they are moving on and the likelihood of the show finding new life elsewhere is getting slimmer and slimmer.

I also adore MJB. The one thing this show does right is get powerhouse actors for Viola to play against. It elevates the show that much more.

 

******

 

The season is getting better and better. I love Connor having 2 dads, seeing Oliver out there networking for his new business and the many directions the K4 are going in. Asher needs to get up off his butt and get  job but I like how loyal he is to everyone. Laurel being a bit cray is far more entertaining than her being the weeping widow she was last season. I many ways Laurel reminds me of AK. She's messy and drawing everyone around her into her crazy. I really want Isaac to be a good guy or at least a mostly harmless person like the dean was last season. His remarks to AK about her behavior made sense. Part of AK's grandstanding in court is to make herself feel better or to make her feel like she's accomplishing something. Her introducing that tape and blindsiding MJB reminded me of what Bonnie did to that teacher last season. Clearly Bonnie has learned all her best moves from AK.

Still undecided as to who the "he" Micheala is referring to, but I think the show has left that intentionally vague. It could be Laurel's baby, Asher, Connor, Dominic or even Simon as far as we know.

[harmfulhazards]

I can't say that the episode was bad. Objectively it is probably one of the better ones, but I can't help feeling like the majority of the storylines are falling flat for me. Laurel baby plot is boring both in flashforwards and a present timeline, I couldn't care less about Coliver, Asher and Frank barely do anything, Bonnie after a promising beginning fades into the background again, Nate needs to get a life and leave Annalise alone already. Annalise's plot about trying to be a hero is shaping up to be somewhat interesting even if it will probably backfire horribly as usual. And Michaela finally got a long overdue storyline that is not about having a boyfriend or being Connor's supportive friend. But at this point I'm not sure if it is going to be enough to keep watching.

[bantering]

I think Wes had a certain affability and innocent quality to him that made it easier to watch him as a main character.

 

Unfortunately, Laurel doesn't really have that same compelling quality. Or maybe the show should have stuck Laurel and Wes together from the beginning for me to not get annoyed every time she says "You must win this for Wes!" The Rebecca detour probably doesn't help me care what happens to Laurel. 

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, helenamonster said:

Damn, Annalise can dish it out but absolutely cannot take it. How many times has she used unethical and downright illegal methods to win cases? But as soon as Nate, Bonnie, and Oliver do it against her and not for her, it's suddenly a problem. I don't like that an innocent man got caught up in the middle of it, but she can have several seats on that issue. She hates losing at her own game.

She does hate losing, but frankly Bonnie and Nate should be better than Annalise. Annalise makes the most sense as a character when she's fighting against a system that has particular limitations, like she did with Jasmine last week or her client this week. But when she's fighting against nakedly corrupt, unethical, and illegal actors within the DA or police force, the show comes unmoored. That's when the characters start murdering, framing people, and lying like crazy people for bizarre reasons to suit Annalise's insane Machiavellian schemes or their own convoluted corrupt plans.

As we've gotten to know Annalise, we know that she feels justified in doing the things she does because the system is severely impaired, but is still fixable. She feels like what she does is a necessary evil and a rough justice. However, those people who are legally tasked with keeping the peace, upholding the law, and prosecuting criminals should be fucking better than Annalise Keating. Bonnie and Nate, who have known Annalise for a long time, know that. Furthermore, they didn't do what they did in the interest of justice. They did it out of spite. They wanted to hurt Annalise. They didn't care if the defendant was actually guilty nor did they care if it hurt the kid. That behavior is why Annalise feels like she has to do monstrous things to "serve the greater good," but the DA and those in the office should always be better than Annalise.

Edited October 13, 2017 by HunterHunted

[apn85]

45 minutes ago, bantering said:

I think Wes had a certain affability and innocent quality to him that made it easier to watch him as a main character.

 

Unfortunately, Laurel doesn't really have that same compelling quality. Or maybe the show should have stuck Laurel and Wes together from the beginning for me to not get annoyed every time she says "You must win this for Wes!" The Rebecca detour probably doesn't help me care what happens to Laurel. 

Part of the reason it annoys the hell out of me is because I never believed Laurel and Wes were soulmates! I know there are many who disagree, but they kind of came out of nowhere for me. During season 2 I used to joke about the fact it seemed like Laurel was literally his Mother. She had to direct his every move. Like her coming over to *literally* get him out of bed and feed him after he shot Annalise, her taking him to Ohio to find out about his past, her hiding the fact they first thought he may have killed his Mom from him, etc. It was like Laurel and her grown son. I just never understood. He was obsessed with Rebecca and Laurel was banging Frank on every surface in the town. 

Not to mention she obsessively searched for Frank the first part of last season and even sold her soul to her Dad to obtain his whereabouts! She also had NO problem lying to Wes about what she'd been up to (stalking Frank) even after he told her how he felt about Frank. Then next thing we know she's shacking up with Wes and sooooooooooooo in love! I just can't. 

So yes, if we had to go down this road, I also wish they had made that pairing make a little more sense! 

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

In that last scene, didn’t Michaela look like she’d been beaten?

Kinda, like she was in some kind of struggle because it wasn't just her make up, her hair looked like it was messy and I'm not going to assume it was from a windy day either. It's interesting that she didn't have any blood on her hands though, on her blouse, but not her hands. There was no blood, didn't even see dirt while she held her hands up on that class looking at those babies and I don't buy that she washed the blood off. That manicure looked like it was holding up,  I didn't even notice a broken nail. Too me, she looked way to out of it to have wash anything off, so I wonder whose bloody hand prints are on that elevator wall.

Quote

I just never understood. He was obsessed with Rebecca and Laurel was banging Frank on every surface in the town. 

Yeah, I don't get  Peter Nowalk and how he thinks this true, great love thing is supposed to work, he should of quit a long time ago, because it's not believable. She was into Wes yet she jealously ran over to Anna's house to rat out that Bonnie was with Frank, is Nowalk serious?

Bottom line though, IMO Wes didn't have any sexy chemistry with anyone they paired him with. He didn't have friendship chemistry with anyone in particular, the only one he had chemistry with was Anna, his surrogate mother. How in the hell are you going to go from the steamy shit Frank and Laurel were doing to Laurel and Wes, WTF is wrong with you Nowalk? Hell, Laurel even had more chemistry with that boyfriend she had at the start of the show, I think he was a professor. But now I'm so sick of Laurel infused in every damn thing and having the option to go back and forth that I don't care about her love life. And she's starting to ruin Frank for me, well Frank might be doing that all on his own. She's a real turn off, like Meredith Grey levels at this point. Now her baby has gone somewhere and we'll be treated, I mean tortured with her drama indefinitely, where everybody has to huddle around her bullshit, and worry about her, ugh. I'm numb to her pain.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Chairperson Meow]

I think Therapist guy is shady.  I also think he's hired by Laurel's dad to get in Annelise's head.   

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, bantering said:

.......

 

Unfortunately, Laurel doesn't really have that same compelling quality. Or maybe the show should have stuck Laurel and Wes together from the beginning for me to not get annoyed every time she says "You must win this for Wes!" The Rebecca detour probably doesn't help me care what happens to Laurel. 

 

2 hours ago, apn85 said:

Part of the reason it annoys the hell out of me is because I never believed Laurel and Wes were soulmates! I know there are many who disagree, but they kind of came out of nowhere for me. During season 2 I used to joke about the fact it seemed like Laurel was literally his Mother. She had to direct his every move. Like her coming over to *literally* get him out of bed and feed him after he shot Annalise, her taking him to Ohio to find out about his past, her hiding the fact they first thought he may have killed his Mom from him, etc. It was like Laurel and her grown son. I just never understood. He was obsessed with Rebecca and Laurel was banging Frank on every surface in the town. 

Not to mention she obsessively searched for Frank the first part of last season and even sold her soul to her Dad to obtain his whereabouts! She also had NO problem lying to Wes about what she'd been up to (stalking Frank) even after he told her how he felt about Frank. Then next thing we know she's shacking up with Wes and sooooooooooooo in love! I just can't. 

So yes, if we had to go down this road, I also wish they had made that pairing make a little more sense! 

Wes/Laurel needed more of a build up to be convincing. Even ignoring the Frank and Rebecca detours, there needed to be something else after the kiss in NYC.  Having Laurel spend the first half of the season calling/searching for Frank didn't help. Then to have Laurel seemingly take center stage is a little off putting. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Milaxx

[Keepitmoving]

Funniest line of the night was Asher turning to Michaela and asking: "Wait, do you feel this way about me because I don't have an internship?" (aimless, deadbeat loser) LOL, the answer is probably, yes. You better go out there and try to get a temp job, something that doesn't include shaking your ass in a bar. And to top it off, she just kept on ranting at Connor and didn't even look in Asher's direction after he said it. That was funny.

[secnarf]

18 hours ago, possibilities said:

Laurel is so whiny. And I don't trust her at all. Why didn't she go to the interview and try to get the job herself if she wanted to be on the inside at that firm? Does she just want to shift the risk onto Michaela? They'd better not destroy Michaela this season. After Wes, it will be too much of a pattern.

Laurel didn't get an interview to this company - she got one at the non-profit that Connor tried to worm his way into.

14 hours ago, apn85 said:

I'm not convinced that the baby dies. I'm actually leaning more toward the baby survives. I think we found out it's a boy this episode so that when Michaela was saying "he" at the end we'd think it was the baby she was speaking about.

There was also the old-school "nursery" full of babies that she was looking into through the window.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Laurel is so whiny. And I don't trust her at all. Why didn't she go to the interview and try to get the job herself if she wanted to be on the inside at that firm? Does she just want to shift the risk onto Michaela? They'd better not destroy Michaela this season. After Wes, it will be too much of a pattern.

Yes, she doesn't give a shit about Michaela's well being which is why I totally reject any friendship they are suppose to have. She tried to pimp her out to Mahoney literally, she actually wanted to risk Michaela being raped by a supposed rapist just so she could figure out what happened to Wes. Too bad she doesn't get that no one gave enough of a shit about Wes to volunteer time and time again to put their lives in danger to figure out what happened to him. But fucking Nowalk keeps writing this bullshit and putting Michaela on the deck to help Laurel with her bullshit.  If she wanted a damn job at that firm she could have gotten one, she didn't care to try because her head isn't in the game, that's something she and Connor have in common. 

Yeah, I'm watching Nowalk's "pattern" which is why I have one foot out the door. I'm getting sick of Asher too, let me see if Nowalk writes him to support a traumatized Michaela. Because he sure had time to run around and set up an intervention for Connor. This is a pattern in Hollywood with black female characters, and thank goodness for the Ava Duverney's of the business now, that I don't have to continue to entertain this insulting nonsense anymore. I'm not interested in the black girl saving the day all the time and taking care of everyone, it dehumanizes her, it is definitely a pattern.  When is someone going to take care of her? She's taking care of her out of control boyfriend, while he continues to act the fucking fool and now her "fake" friend is once again putting her life in danger. Nowalk tweeting some shit about if your bae doesn't stick up for you like Michaela, leave them. Right? So when will Michaela's bae be called to task to do the same for her? I'm tired Nowalk, I'm out if it continues. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Fable]

I can hand wave a lot of things, but I found it completely ridiculous that they didn't ask the have the child removed from the courtroom when her mother's suicide video was shown.  

[Neurochick]

21 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Bonnie and Nate were petty as fuck.  Nate why do you even keep putting yourself in Anna's orbit if you hate her so much?

Because both Bonnie and Nate are in love with Annalise.  If she said, "come here children," they'd come running.  They hate her because they hate themselves for wanting to be with her.

Quote

This is a pattern in Hollywood with black female characters, and thank goodness for the Ava Duverney's of the business now, that I don't have to continue to entertain this insulting nonsense anymore. I'm not interested in the black girl saving the day all the time and taking care of everyone, it dehumanizes her, it is definitely a pattern. 

I agree with this, however (going off topic here...) I see the same mess in "Queen Sugar" where the women are the ones saving the day, I mean, where would Ralph Angel be without the women in his family? 

Edited October 14, 2017 by Neurochick

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Fable said:

I can hand wave a lot of things, but I found it completely ridiculous that they didn't ask the have the child removed from the courtroom when her mother's suicide video was shown.  

I was thinking about that, too. Yeah. No child would be subjected to that horror. 

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, secnarf said:

22 hours ago, possibilities said:

Laurel is so whiny. And I don't trust her at all. Why didn't she go to the interview and try to get the job herself if she wanted to be on the inside at that firm? Does she just want to shift the risk onto Michaela? They'd better not destroy Michaela this season. After Wes, it will be too much of a pattern.

Laurel didn't get an interview to this company - she got one at the non-profit that Connor tried to worm his way into.

Philadelphia Legal Aid. I don't even think she was trying to get an interview there. She probably was just going through the motions because Michaela was prompting her, which is why she didn't show up. Sadly I think if Connor had put in the effort instead of trying for another big league firm he could have gotten a call back to the Legal Aid firm. His win in court would have been a good fit & I think made him feel god about the law again,

[Evenshorter]

5 hours ago, Chairperson Meow said:

I think Therapist guy is shady.  I also think he's hired by Laurel's dad to get in Annelise's head.   

My daughter just mentioned the same thing to me!  Also, we think it's Laurel's dad that is killed in the elevator, maybe Michaela was there for some reason - and that's the "he" that is dead.  We also had a thought that there wasn't even a baby, that it's a hysterical pregnancy. Clearly, we have too much time on our hands.

[kdm07]

I need to know who put their hands on Michaela so I can have a few words with them.

Laurel is the new Wes to me. In the sense that she's beginning to annoy me with her constant badgering about one topic as much as Wes did.

Nate & Bonnie's mess wrt to the case was low. They didn't have to do that to that poor girl.

I didn't expect the body to be the former prisoner lady and was disappointed but not surprised that she went right back to drugs. Happens way too often in real life too.

[Annber03]

8 minutes ago, Evenshorter said:

Also, we think it's Laurel's dad that is killed in the elevator, maybe Michaela was there for some reason - and that's the "he" that is dead. 

...okay, how did I not think of that possibility? That's a good theory, too, I can totally see that happening. 

[apn85]

7 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Bottom line though, IMO Wes didn't have any sexy chemistry with anyone they paired him with. He didn't have friendship chemistry with anyone in particular, the only one he had chemistry with was Anna, his surrogate mother. How in the hell are you going to go from the steamy shit Frank and Laurel were doing to Laurel and Wes, WTF is wrong with you Nowalk? Hell, Laurel even had more chemistry with that boyfriend she had at the start of the show, I think he was a professor. 

ITA!! And we're not wrong on that. I saw an interview the actress who plays Laurel did and she said when she got the script and found out they were going ahead with Wes & Laurel she wondered how in the world it was going to work. That the actor was one of her best friends and she just didn't know how it would translate onto the screen. I'm paraphrasing there, but that was the extent of it. I don't think she got it either. Now, Frank? Love them or hate them, those two have chemistry. To me, they have chemistry in any scene they have together. I never got that with her and Wes. Or with anyone where he's concerned. As you said, he and Annalise worked well together. 

 

6 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Funniest line of the night was Asher turning to Michaela and asking: "Wait, do you feel this way about me because I don't have an internship?" (aimless, deadbeat loser) LOL, the answer is probably, yes. You better go out there and try to get a temp job, something that doesn't include shaking your ass in a bar. And to top it off, she just kept on ranting at Connor and didn't even look in Asher's direction after he said it. That was funny.

OMG I loved this. Asher standing up reading his letter. Connor says, "Can I say something?" and Michaela, "GOD yes!" I just loved that whole scene. The exchange you pointed out. Then Frank piping up, "Hey, everyone is here because they care about you!" and Connor "How is anyone ok with him being here?!" and Frank "Dude!" And Frank saying he could plan the baby shower. That scene was old school HTGAWM for me and while I loved it, it made me desperately miss the old days. 

 

6 hours ago, secnarf said:

There was also the old-school "nursery" full of babies that she was looking into through the window.

This is also what confused me. Laurel would only be what? 7 months pregnant by the time the flash forward happened? Realistically, that baby would need to go to NICU. I know Nowalk makes his own rules, but if he had a handle on reality, he'd know a baby born at the gestation Laurel should be at would be premature. 

 

5 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Yes, she doesn't give a shit about Michaela's well being which is why I totally reject any friendship they are suppose to have. She tried to pimp her out to Mahoney literally, she actually wanted to risk Michaela being raped by a supposed rapist just so she could figure out what happened to Wes. Too bad she doesn't get that no one gave enough of a shit about Wes to volunteer time and time again to put their lives in danger to figure out what happened to him. But fucking Nowalk keeps writing this bullshit and putting Michaela on the deck to help Laurel with her bullshit.  If she wanted a damn job at that firm she could have gotten one, she didn't care to try because her head isn't in the game, that's something she and Connor have in common. 

Yeah, I'm watching Nowalk's "pattern" which is why I have one foot out the door. I'm getting sick of Asher too, let me see if Nowalk writes him to support a traumatized Michaela. Because he sure had time to run around and set up an intervention for Connor. This is a pattern in Hollywood with black female characters, and thank goodness for the Ava Duverney's of the business now, that I don't have to continue to entertain this insulting nonsense anymore. I'm not interested in the black girl saving the day all the time and taking care of everyone, it dehumanizes her, it is definitely a pattern.  When is someone going to take care of her? She's taking care of her out of control boyfriend, while he continues to act the fucking fool and now her "fake" friend is once again putting her life in danger. Nowalk tweeting some shit about if your bae doesn't stick up for you like Michaela, leave them. Right? So when will Michaela's bae be called to task to do the same for her? I'm tired Nowalk, I'm out if it continues. 

They have completely retconned Laurel's character for me. Nowalk seems to have this need to have one character hold all the other wrecks together. They can't all be sane and working on something together. Laurel has already done this. She was the one that kept them afloat during the aftermath of Sam's murder. If you recall, Connor and Michaela were melting down to the point they were going to turn themselves in. It was Laurel who went to Wes and laid her cards out (told him Frank knew so she knew Annalise had to know) and demanded he do the same before they all went down for it. Now it's Michaela holding that position Nowalk seems to require to write the freaking show. The issue with this is that it's NOT Michaela's mess. At least they were all guilty in some way for Sam. This is not Michaela's problem and Laurel has no right to demand she jeopardize herself and her career all for the sake of  her vendetta against her own Father. You want a showdown with Daddy, go have one, I say! Despite all he's done, I sincerely think Laurel believes he wouldn't hurt her and I think she's dead wrong. She thinks she can underhandedly have him thrown in jail and she doesn't realize he's most likely 3 steps ahead of her. I think Michaela totally sees what Laurel refuses to. 

 

3 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Philadelphia Legal Aid. I don't even think she was trying to get an interview there. She probably was just going through the motions because Michaela was prompting her, which is why she didn't show up. Sadly I think if Connor had put in the effort instead of trying for another big league firm he could have gotten a call back to the Legal Aid firm. His win in court would have been a good fit & I think made him feel god about the law again,

I've never been 100% sure why Laurel was in school. I know what she has said, but if you think back over the past 3 seasons, she has done the least amount of work possible. Seriously! During the 1st couple seasons she went on all the stakeouts she could with Frank because she was into him. It was the others sitting around doing the heavy research. She helped every now and again, but I recall myself being like WHAT is she doing?! Like the time she's screwing Frank in the basement while the others are upstairs digging through discovery. And last season I have no idea what the hell she was doing.  

Edited October 14, 2017 by apn85