S06.E05: Tomboy Joy

[Marshmallow Mollie]

Just now, queenanne said:

If I had a nickel for every Christian who thought they were being witty and oh so original by saying ‘who needs alcohol to have fun?’ ... me, uniformly ‘speak for yourself, extrovert.’

Haha!

[kokapetl]

Derick would be a hell of a lot more tolerable with some booze in him.

They all generally seem so tightly wound and in need of social lubricant. 

[Marshmallow Mollie]

Speaking of Derick, what about the scene of Derick and Ben at the trampoline park with Austin? Derick looked so sickly. 

[MsJamieDornan]

6 hours ago, Marigold said:

Joy has a superior attitude,, doesn't she? 

Yes and she is very bossy. After watching her order people around, I can't believe its the same person that couldn't pick out a wedding cake or sounded like a child whimpering "I don't know" when asked if she liked the wedding dress choices.  She's annoying.

Edited October 11, 2017 by MsJamieDornan

[flyingdi]

Some of the graduation parties I remember from many many years ago would have blown Joy's head straight off. 

Joy, have you ever heard the words "grain alcohol"?

And I went to 12_years of Catholic school.

[Buggin]

Joy isn't even old enough to legally drink at a Bachelorette party if she wanted to!

Instead of going out dancing at 20, she will be living at the beck and call of a tiny screaming human, and maybe wishing she could do a little drinking!

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, flyingdi said:

Some of the graduation parties I remember from many many years ago would have blown Joy's head straight off. 

Joy, have you ever heard the words "grain alcohol"?

And I went to 12_years of Catholic school.

I'm curious whether they spout the things they do -- "high school is just about walking across a stage! -- it's nothin'!" -- because they have really swallowed these lies of JB's and M's. Or whether they spout them partly because, deep down inside, they've caught just enough of a glimpse of the world outside to suspect that there could be a lot more to it than that. But they can't allow themselves to think about that possibility or it would make their imprisonment too crushing. 

It's just hard for me to see that Joy really doesn't have any suspicion at all that, besides "walking across a stage,"  maybe, just maybe, high school involves fun, excitement, celebrations, human connection, sports, chances to feel a sense of achievement, the ability to make your own choices, freedom from parental hovering, opportunities for personal growth, opportunities to find out who you are as an individual and what interests you, the opening of doors to realms of human life that are full of opportunity and interest that she has no idea of. Etc. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

My kids are all homeschooled and have never been to a traditional school setting of any sort other than college classes during high school.  (sorry, Duggars, hate to make you look bad)

Joy,

My son had a beautiful graduation ceremony at the church that sponsors our homeschool coop. It really was lovely. Cap & gown, music, speakers, pictures, balloons and a lot of happy tears.   And guess what!!!  We had a PARTY too!  Yes, Joy, it is true.  A party afterwards at our house with friends and family!   We did both things!  You're not as special and unique as you think you are.   

Edited October 11, 2017 by Marigold

[flyingdi]

10 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm curious whether they spout the things they do -- "high school is just about walking across a stage! -- it's nothin'!" -- because they have really swallowed these lies of JB's and M's. Or whether they spout them partly because, deep down inside, they've caught just enough of a glimpse of the world outside to suspect that there could be a lot more to it than that. But they can't allow themselves to think about that possibility or it would make their imprisonment too crushing. 

It's just hard for me to see that Joy really doesn't have any suspicion at all that, besides "walking across a stage,"  maybe, just maybe, high school involves fun, excitement, celebrations, human connection, sports, chances to feel a sense of achievement, the ability to make your own choices, freedom from parental hovering, opportunities for personal growth, opportunities to find out who you are as an individual and what interests you, the opening of doors to realms of human life that are full of opportunity and interest that she has no idea of. Etc. 

All this is true but I also think the fact that there is a lot more to life outside the compound scares the you-know-what out of those kids.  Their "imprisonment" makes them safe.

Bravo, Duggars.  I have to say again, good job on the parenting!

[Malvina]

On 10/9/2017 at 6:23 PM, mythoughtis said:

Joy-“ other people’s graduations are boring, cause they just walk across the stage. We had a party”.  Guess what Joy- lots of people have graduation parties. Your family didn’t invent them. Sure wish this family would learn about the world before they condemn it. 

Condescending, dismissive attitude coupled with superiority complex.

[Churchhoney]

18 minutes ago, flyingdi said:

All this is true but I also think the fact that there is a lot more to life outside the compound scares the you-know-what out of those kids.  Their "imprisonment" makes them safe.

Bravo, Duggars.  I have to say again, good job on the parenting!

Definitely. I do wonder what kind of mix of curiosity and terror there is underneath, though. Some of them may actually be dim enough -- or timid enough by nature -- to just buy JB's and M's crap wholesale. But I'm sure that others aren't. I'd love to delve in and see what the variations are. 

[flyingdi]

3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Definitely. I do wonder what kind of mix of curiosity and terror there is underneath, though. Some of them may actually be dim enough -- or timid enough by nature -- to just buy JB's and M's crap wholesale. But I'm sure that others aren't. I'd love to delve in and see what the variations are. 

I would love that too.  I think clearly Jill and Jessa are motivated by fear.  Jill, because she bought into everything her parents told her.  Jessa, because her parents made sure she did not trust a single soul except possibly for Jinger.

[Malvina]

39 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm curious whether they spout the things they do -- "high school is just about walking across a stage! -- it's nothin'!" -- because they have really swallowed these lies of JB's and M's. Or whether they spout them partly because, deep down inside, they've caught just enough of a glimpse of the world outside to suspect that there could be a lot more to it than that. But they can't allow themselves to think about that possibility or it would make their imprisonment too crushing. 

It's just hard for me to see that Joy really doesn't have any suspicion at all that, besides "walking across a stage,"  maybe, just maybe, high school involves fun, excitement, celebrations, human connection, sports, chances to feel a sense of achievement, the ability to make your own choices, freedom from parental hovering, opportunities for personal growth, opportunities to find out who you are as an individual and what interests you, the opening of doors to realms of human life that are full of opportunity and interest that she has no idea of. Etc. 

I don't think "introspection" is in their vocabulary.

[xwordfanatik]

4 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Derick would be a hell of a lot more tolerable with some booze in him.

They all generally seem so tightly wound and in need of social lubricant. 

Or weed (medicinal purposes, of course!)

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, Malvina said:

I don't think "introspection" is in their vocabulary.

Well, it might be in someone's. You can't necessarily squelch that out of everybody. And I've seen people try. 

But I was being unclear. I wasn't talking about introspection at all here. I was talking about having some dim awareness that something you've been told to -- or decided to -- believe may not be entirely true. And basically squelching that knowledge for whatever reason, even though it's down there underneath.

i.e., does Joy REALLY have no inkling at all that there could  more to the outside world than she's been taught to proclaim -- or does she dimly know that there might be but just denies that knowledge and loudly proclaims her denial just to put a lid on it, as deniers often do. ...............So ... I was talking about the opposite of introspection, really.     Is she completely ignorant of the truth? Or has she seen some hints of the truth but suppressed them because that's easier or because it's what Mama and Daddy want or whatever? 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Churchhoney

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, flyingdi said:

Some of the graduation parties I remember from many many years ago would have blown Joy's head straight off. 

Joy, have you ever heard the words "grain alcohol"?

And I went to 12_years of Catholic school.

Hehe, years ago, when a friend of ours went to Reno, we had her pick us up some Everclear (can't buy it here.)  

I'd love to see ANY of this family tipsy, or downright drunk on his/her ass!

[jennblevins]

Maybe they're worried that if any of them had a "walk across the stage" graduation, they'd have to do what I (and a number of my fellow public school graduates) did: walk across the stage, go home, eat dinner, and then go to work, regardless of what parties were going on. 

[Sew Sumi]

Since Duggars don't work, that's not really an issue. 

[mythoughtis]

I don’t think Joy has any idea that the outside world isn’t all evil. Even if she did, only two children have attempted escape. One came home after having succumbed to the evil temptations out there. One has only semi- escaped  in that she gets to wear pants , but we’ve yet to determined how far she’ll fly or whether they will crash and burn. Joy is happy where she is. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by mythoughtis

[Malvina]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, it might be in someone's. You can't necessarily squelch that out of everybody. And I've seen people try. 

But I was being unclear. I wasn't talking about introspection at all here. I was talking about having some dim awareness that something you've been told to -- or decided to -- believe may not be entirely true. And basically squelching that knowledge for whatever reason, even though it's down there underneath.

i.e., does Joy REALLY have no inkling at all that there could  more to the outside world than she's been taught to proclaim -- or does she dimly know that there might be but just denies that knowledge and loudly proclaims her denial just to put a lid on it, as deniers often do. ...............So ... I was talking about the opposite of introspection, really.     Is she completely ignorant of the truth? Or has she seen some hints of the truth but suppressed them because that's easier or because it's what Mama and Daddy want or whatever? 

How about an episode: "Duggars under hypnosis: Devil made me spill the beans".

[Churchhoney]

28 minutes ago, Malvina said:

How about an episode: "Duggars under hypnosis: Devil made me spill the beans".

That's the episode that would finally get me to watch the show (even at the cost of putting some money in Jizm Boob's pocket, I'm afraid.) !    ... luckily, even for money I don't think JB would allow this. ha 

[queenanne]

4 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm curious whether they spout the things they do -- "high school is just about walking across a stage! -- it's nothin'!" -- because they have really swallowed these lies of JB's and M's. Or whether they spout them partly because, deep down inside, they've caught just enough of a glimpse of the world outside to suspect that there could be a lot more to it than that. But they can't allow themselves to think about that possibility or it would make their imprisonment too crushing. 

It's just hard for me to see that Joy really doesn't have any suspicion at all that, besides "walking across a stage,"  maybe, just maybe, high school involves fun, excitement, celebrations, human connection, sports, chances to feel a sense of achievement, the ability to make your own choices, freedom from parental hovering, opportunities for personal growth, opportunities to find out who you are as an individual and what interests you, the opening of doors to realms of human life that are full of opportunity and interest that she has no idea of. Etc. 

She may have that suspicion, but I feel like they spout it because this is verbatim what JB and M (who did "walk across a stage", and are denying them the same right to do so), have told the kids.  I doubt if you were a kid who never had a graduation, that you'd think this characterization up on your own.  In fact, I bet tons of stranglehold fundie parents have in fact told their kids disparaging nonsense like this to make them feel like they're not missing out on anything in the lame Duggar do's (cf., conversation above on how many fundies have tried to convince me and everyone else in our party at the restaurant, that being teetotal is the funnest thing evar).

Edited October 12, 2017 by queenanne

[QuinnInND]

3 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

Hehe, years ago, when a friend of ours went to Reno, we had her pick us up some Everclear (can't buy it here.)  

I'd love to see ANY of this family tipsy, or downright drunk on his/her ass!

I would too. And it wouldn't take much Everclear to get them bombed. Like a sip or two. That stuff is brutal. 

[AnnieBeez]

10 hours ago, truebluesmoky said:

Jessa came across as really insecure to me in this episode. She mentioned herself not cooking/not being a good cook multiple times and said that Joy is a much better cook, and she seemed sheepish when she said it, not proud. She also mentioned several times that Joy did more fun things and was better with the younger kids than Jessa herself had been. 

I didn't see insecure or sheepish. If Jessa wanted to cook, she'd be cooking. Jessa's a princess. 

eta: I've really noticed the last few episodes that it seems like Jessa's the only one who really enjoys doing the show. Joy would've been so much happier just having a casual marriage ceremony instead of bid to-do WEDDING. Jinger, Jana, and the rest seem to meet the bare minimum of participation. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by PuhLeeze

[Churchhoney]

11 hours ago, queenanne said:

She may have that suspicion, but I feel like they spout it because this is verbatim what JB and M (who did "walk across a stage", and are denying them the same right to do so), have told the kids.  I doubt if you were a kid who never had a graduation, that you'd think this characterization up on your own.  In fact, I bet tons of stranglehold fundie parents have in fact told their kids disparaging nonsense like this to make them feel like they're not missing out on anything in the lame Duggar do's (cf., conversation above on how many fundies have tried to convince me and everyone else in our party at the restaurant, that being teetotal is the funnest thing evar).

Yep. In my sick but not fundamentalist house the expressions "dirty books" and "eww, books are dirty!" were used for all books. And these were said so often that parroting them was clearly expected. There was some cognitive dissonance here, since studying one's school books to the point of getting nothing but A+s across the board was also expected. But a line was drawn between studying your school book and voluntary leisure reading -- anything read as leisure was a "dirty book, ewwww." Never was tempted to parrot this, though.  ;  )

The Duggar catechism seems to get a lot of takers, though. And I'm always curious about which, if any, have been convinced not just to say it but to believe it, and which are just saying it to keep their parents pacified. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Jeanne222]

I think I'm going to be in the 70% not watching this latest episode.

How long will this one go on?

 

I wonder if they will replace the girls with Michelle and Jim Bob?  Have they sat in the corner long enough for fans to forget?

A couple of the new TLC shows are gaining ground!

[Churchhoney]

3 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think I'm going to be in the 70% not watching this latest episode.

How long will this one go on?

 

 

I'm envisioning a season somewhere down the line where there's one show and eight "After Shows." 

[Barb23]

Joy didn't know how pathetic & sad she sounded when asked about what the Duggar graduates would be doing after graduation. She said the boys would work in the family companies & she would help around the house with the younger kids (paraphrasing), all said without any enthusiasm. Compare her response to her counterparts in the Real World - college , a full time real job, the armed forces, etc. and being all excited about it.  I wonder how many of the older Kidadults could even manage filling out college admissions forms?

It's sad with the pregnancy & taking care of their future kiddos that Joy won't be helping Austin too much  with the house flipping business. I can't even see her doing the office work.  She sounded so excited about getting to work beside Austin & now that dream is fading away with the kids that will be coming every year or so. 

[OpieTaylor]

Re: the sibling gifts:  From what I could see, the "blue" gifts that Jinger put together looked like a bunch of cheap crap. Probably dollar-store stuff.  Jinger's presentation may have been cute, but what was actually in there? Some bandanas - perhaps useful in construction to keep from breathing dust, I suppose.  Cheap blue sunglasses - suitable for outdoorsy people, and no biggy if they get lost, but do they provide UV protection? What else was in there?  Could anyone else make it out?

Re: the storage building - WHY is that place such a mess?  Why do they hang on to so much stuff?  With so many able bodies, why haven't they pulled everything out of there and then organized it all so they know what they have?  

[jcbrown]

1 hour ago, OpieTaylor said:

Re: the storage building - WHY is that place such a mess?  Why do they hang on to so much stuff?  With so many able bodies, why haven't they pulled everything out of there and then organized it all so they know what they have?  

I meant to post this, too, but the episode lulled me into a coma and I forgot. WTH? Why do they need such a hoard of disorganized crap? The disorganized part ensures they will never be able to use it for anything unless they get lucky and the thing they are looking for is on top. Boob the hoarder. No wonder they had to have that giant yard sale of useless on a previous episode.

[Sew Sumi]

I wondered about that painting. The Last Supper? Did it ever hang in Duggar environs? If so, why did they take it down? If not, why do they have it? 

So confused. 

[Pinke]

12 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Re: the storage building - WHY is that place such a mess?  Why do they hang on to so much stuff?  With so many able bodies, why haven't they pulled everything out of there and then organized it all so they know what they have?  

Because they're lazy af, that's why.

[Gemma Violet]

I've still got this episode on my DVR and never had time to watch it.  It doesn't look like I'm missing much.

I'd love to see one of the Duggars join the armed services--just sign up at the recruiting office without telling Jim Bob and then watch his head explode as his child escapes from his clutches and is exposed to the outside influences of the world.  It'll never happen--just fun to think about.

[Jellybeans]

I wouldn’t want to organize the mess...it isn’t the Duggar children’s crap to begin with.  It’s JimBob’s.  Or am I missing something?

[AnnieBeez]

9 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

I've still got this episode on my DVR and never had time to watch it.  It doesn't look like I'm missing much.

I'd love to see one of the Duggars join the armed services--just sign up at the recruiting office without telling Jim Bob and then watch his head explode as his child escapes from his clutches and is exposed to the outside influences of the world.  It'll never happen--just fun to think about.

Wouldn't they have to pass the ASVAB? 

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, PuhLeeze said:

Wouldn't they have to pass the ASVAB? 

If they even managed that,  can't imagine it would put the at any higher than cannon-fodder level.

I have a husband who blew the top off the ASVAB and a couple of sons who pretty much did the same. I can't imagine sending a member of the family off to that route knowing they hadn't more or less earned the best schooling available for their designator!

Edited October 15, 2017 by Jynnan tonnix

[Gemma Violet]

I had to google ASVAB.  Yeah, I guess they'd have trouble with that.

[QuinnInND]

They wouldn't pass the ASVAB.  No way in hell.  

[farmgal4]

On October 11, 2017 at 9:15 PM, QuinnInND said:

I would too. And it wouldn't take much Everclear to get them bombed. Like a sip or two. That stuff is brutal. 

"That stuff is brutal."  The hangover will make you wish you were dead. ?

[QuinnInND]

And you'll vow never to touch it again. 

[xwordfanatik]

Yup, did my hangover phase when I was MUCH younger.  Moderation in all things is key.

Too bad the fundies don't believe in a moderation attitude with their fundyism.  They would almost certainly be more tolerable & happier.

[ariel]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 2:02 PM, queenanne said:

If I had a nickel for every Christian who thought they were being witty and oh so original by saying ‘who needs alcohol to have fun?

Don't tell that to one of us evil Catholics that need conversion.   ;)