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S16.E10: Driving Miss Unconventional

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22 hours ago, holly4755 said:

The thing with Kentaro's model is that the fire hose had fiberglass in it, that can cause a nasty rash, not good for a model and it is really horrible on the skin. Some materials should have not been included or Kentaro should have made an undergarment for his model like Michael did. 

I don't think this is Kentaro's responsibility...or any other designer's...or Tim's--to even know this.  Production should have vetted every piece of "safety" (hahaha) equipment before it saw the interior of a Lexus.  If there WAS fiberglass in the fire hose, then Kentaro was breathing in particles as he tore apart the "fabric" (trademark Tim Gunn)--probably more harmful than a nasty rash.  

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OK, I said what I said about fiber glass to explain the models unhappiness,  Of course, the episode designer should have eliminated it.  i don't know if Kentaro knew how uncomfortable it could be. I jsut thought I would mention it.  

 

As to the person who did not like the mention of Amazing race, the whole thing with a manual has become short cut language among reality watchers as something you would be an idiot to not do and yet every year there is at least on couple who does not know how to drive a manual which is usually the car of choice on this particular show or maybe in non USA countries.  Not everyone might get it,  but I think a number of people here probably get the reference. 

Edited by holly4755
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Could someone with some time to kill make a supercut of Zac gratuitously groping the models? Come on dude give it a rest.

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18 hours ago, dleighg said:

I don't care if he's gay or straight, or a woman for that matter. I wouldn't want someone pawing my breast like this. I don't think he meant anything sexual by it, but it's just one of those "private parts" that people other than your partner shouldn't touch.

Screen Shot 2017-10-20 at 11.53.56 AM.jpg

Here you go.

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Now that the Manson twins are gone, all I can focus on is trying to figure out WTF kind of accent Brandon is supposed to have. 

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I was shocked that the judges didn't even mention "costume" with regards to Margarita's dress. It looked like a Wonder Woman outfit to me.

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I thought Michael's model was much more of a backstabbing horror than Liris. At the final look-see she walked out saying, "Here comes the hooker." Aw girl, tell us what you really think. They are paid to wear clothes and stomp it out, not volunteer as guest judges. Liris's skin should not have been that close to fiberglass--it's not just uncomfortable, but dangerous, and the judges noticed. Then again, as someone smart said above, don't include fabric-like things like firehoses if the designers are not allowed to use them.

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6 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

"Thank you, Bitch."
- Kentaro

DMiqwPMV4AEsrV9.jpg

Granted, that was amusing.  But in all of their rules about measuring tapes, etc., I would think there would be one about physically distracting another contestant by touching them.  Yelling out a joke is one thing.  Wrapping up their face while they're trying to work ("Can you breathe?"  "A little bit.")  . . . just strikes me as over a line.

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8 hours ago, holly4755 said:

OK, I said what I said about fiber glass to explain the models unhappiness,  Of course, the episode designer should have eliminated it.  i don't know if Kentaro knew how uncomfortable it could be. I jsut thought I would mention it.  

I agree about her discomfort...but also want to bring attention to the possible future discomfort for Kentaro.   This is from a "safety" website:  Fiberglass presents problems-such as irritations of the eyes, skin, or respiratory tract. The mechanical action of the fibers scraping against skin may cause a condition known as dermatitis. To protect yourself, wear long sleeve shirts and pants to keep the fibers off your skin, and wear clean clothes every day. Gloves and eye protection may also help. Use soap and warm water to remove any fibers that you do get on your skin.

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19 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

I agree about her discomfort...but also want to bring attention to the possible future discomfort for Kentaro. 

My mother had fiberglass net curtains in the kitchen when I was growing up in the 70s. She washed them in the bathtub. I later took a bath and was plagued by all over itching from the tiny tiny fibers that were left behind in the tub. That stuff is nasty.

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This is my take on the show the other night and the remaining designers:  

Kenya: While I don't have any real sense of her, I think she has something to offer. She just needs to gain more confidence in herself and show who she really is as a designer. 

Margarita: She is not as good as she thinks, and  her 'mean girl' personality leaves something to be desired. While her dress met the challenge, I was liking it until she started adding more crap. It looked like a home-made Halloween costume. Less is more. 

Ayana: I have not had any real opinion about Ayana until this show. I thought her dress was the only one that truly met the challenge, but did not care for the head piece. After her win I saw something in her that didn't sit well with me. I'm hoping it was just the editing.

Kentaro: I really like him and think, as another poster mentioned, that once he can do his own thing, his true self will shine through. Also, I loved his comment about the measuring tapes, which showed his sly sense of humor. 

Brandon: I like both him and his style. I agree that he is building prototypes for a collection. What better way to find out if you are on the right track than to have these industry professionals critique your work? His sense of calm and refusal to join the drama club speaks for itself. That could be in part with his first-hand knowledge of the back-biting and ruthlessness of those who want to get ahead by any means possible.

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17 hours ago, wings707 said:

Just binge read this thread. :^)

I agree with the poster who said Ayana will be in F3 with the boys in the name of diversity.  Tim will save her if need be.  

I would love to know where the recruiting team found all of them.  And in other reality shows, as well.   The quality has gone down in Survivor, too and I blame eliminating the application step as part of it. 

OT- I would like to hear what the judges and Tim said behind Ashley's back [season 14 winner].  You know it was not good! 

How would Margarita or Kenya in the top three be any less diverse?

 

Was it just me or was Brandon's top the exact same silhouette as his first unconventional challenge?

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On 10/20/2017 at 7:10 AM, bourbon said:

 I'm not feeling the focus on the models this season and how they are portraying themselves as the clients. I think it was Liris who said she didn't like the look "Kentaro had designed for her." No, it's a look Kentaro designed and you're going to wear it. You're not the client. It's your job to sell the hell out of it. There have been times when the judges have looked to the models and asked if the garment was too tight or hard to walk in, and they've reluctantly spoken up.  This year, they seem pretty quick to throw their designers under the bus. 

On 10/20/2017 at 8:11 AM, Peggyk said:

WHY????      Why are the models up and front this season?  Stop it!    Why do we care about their opinions?  

 I know I DO NOT CARE TO HEAR WHAT A MODEL THINKS.    This is not a disrespectful attitude towards models.   BUT,   This show is about the designers and the clothing they produce.    It is not America’s next models opinion.   The models are like the cars,   Part of the set and part of the topic, .....but I am not going to ask the car how it likes having people in the car.   It’s the same with the models, I DO NOT WANT OR EXPECT THEM TO HAVE A OPINION!    

On 10/20/2017 at 8:52 AM, laprin said:

I have a feeling Liris has had a big head all of her life. 

Liris drives me up a pole. She radiates DIVA!!!!! She sells the hell out of some of the looks she's had to wear, but the arrogance is so off-putting. I always get the feeling she is trying to overcompensate in the "self-confidence" department for being a plus size woman.

 I'm one of the few people (ok, maybe the ONLY person?) who liked the extra 1/2 hour mini show on the Models of the Runway some years back. I wouldn't mind if they did that again. They also showed model selection sometimes which as interesting as well as the process of them getting the additional models for the collections.

I've been trying to figure out how they are eliminating models this go round. Clearly the model wearing the losing outfit doesn't go home, or they wouldn't be throwing their designers under the bus. I haven't really kept track of who has left and when, but I did get the impression that designers have a model selection session after the designer elimination (which then results in a model's elimination). But then this week, the designers came into the workroom and seemed to find little cards which caused then to say 'I got X!", "I got Y!" as though models are being assigned. Has anyone seen anything that I missed on how models are getting selected or eliminated?

On 10/20/2017 at 0:26 AM, LotusFlower said:

I agree re: Brandon and Kentaro, and Ayana will round out the final three.  No question.  (Also not a spoiler - just my guess!)  The show wants to be seen as fashion-forward, progressive, and inclusive, so Ayana's brand of head coverings and modest styles fits this model, similar to how they put season 14 Ashley in the finals and asked her to use plus-size models in her show.  And then the travesty of crowning her the winner even though her designs were atrocious.  It didn't matter - they just wanted to be progressive.  (Ayana's really talented, though, so her spot in the finals would be merited, unlike Ashley).  

I have really grown to like Ayana's work. And the outfit she was wearing herself this week made her look so sensuous without showing hardly ANY skin. I hope she will be in the final 3, and if she is, I feel it is merited for her designs, not some sort of PR PC "inclusiveness". Its not easy to make fashion forward designs that cover so much skin. I also think she was robbed in the doll challenge. Her cupcake to me was the clear winner.

I want to see a collection from Kentaro. I'm pretty sure the judges do too or he would have been gone this challenge. And it's pretty clear that they are falling all over themselves with Brandon. So I think it will be Ayana and Kenya battling it out for spot 3. If Tim's history of how he uses his save continues, Kenya will be aufed next, Tim will save her, and then Ayana will be eliminated sending Kenya (undeservedly) into the final 3.

On 10/20/2017 at 8:21 AM, tessat said:

Still watching the show - but I have to say - there is no way the judges don't know Brandon's and Ayana's looks when a model comes down with straps hanging everywhere or a model has her head covered. Both of these designers need to save their specific esthetic and try to blend.

But then they'd get the "I don't know who you are as a designer" comment. I think at this point, they very much need to show a consistent POV and aesthetic. The judges are looking now for the best potential collections more than the actual outfits being judged. (Clearly they didn't want to auf Kentaro even though Tim would have most likely saved him if they did). One of the most frequent criticisms of collections in the final judging are that they are not cohesive. Margarita is doomed, I think (not that I care). I would guess that the judges feel that she won't be able to do a cohesive collection at all. I've liked some of her stuff and other looks were meh to bleh, but she's been far too focused on each challenge as a single thing rather than taking each challenge as a guideline to show her own POV. We've seen time and time again that the judges will give a pass to a great design that doesn't completely fit the challenge or parameters.

Edited by slothgirl
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36 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

How would Margarita or Kenya in the top three be any less diverse?

I don't think the point was about including a woman of color but about including someone whose religious beliefs inform her design decisions.

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I would say that some competitors, if not all,  were initially chosen for different kinds of diversity: twins; foreign; Muslim; Hispanic; what have you. 

But I also think that they and the show are to be commended for exemplifying, in what might be considered a superficial realm,  not only skills,  talent, and artistry; but more importantly, the common humanity of them---and by extension, us.  

And I'm throwing my chapeau into the Kentaro-Brandon-Ayana ring. ?

Edited by LennieBriscoe
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I like Brandon's personality, but I really think he needs to prove that he can do something other than cover breasts with a tent. Or with a cropped tent.

I went on the Lifetime site and looked back at Brandon's looks. 8 out of 10 are a crop top of some kind. And not even Tim has spoken to him about it. I love each of Brandon's looks separately, but it seems he has managed to get by (and gotten a lot of praise) for just dipping his toe into what can be done in women's fashion.

Edited by Jsage
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51 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

If Tim's history of how he uses his save continues, Kenya will be aufed next, Tim will save her, and then Ayana will be eliminated sending Kenya (undeservedly) into the final 3.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!   I'm always surprised that Kenya keeps plugging along.  I don't mind her, but NOT in the place of Ayana!!

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3 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Wrapping up their face while they're trying to work ("Can you breathe?"  "A little bit.")  . . . just strikes me as over a line.

I saw it differently...and something "playful" that Kentaro even enjoyed.   For me, the "bitch" comment was just kidding between friends.

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53 minutes ago, Jsage said:

I went on the Lifetime site and looked back at Brandon's looks. 8 out of 10 are a crop top of some kind. And not even Tim has spoken to him about it. I love each of Brandon's looks separately, but it seems he has managed to get by (and gotten a lot of praise) for just dipping his toe into what can be done in women's fashion.

Yeah, I couldn't see why the judges were all jizzing themselves all over Brandon's, when it was just a bulky crop top and a circle skirt that was too short and stuck out stiffly from her body. He agonized and that's all he could come up with? But no worries. The judges loved it.

Oh, and he used fabric-like materials exclusively. But not a word from Tim or the judges.

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4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Granted, that was amusing.  But in all of their rules about measuring tapes, etc., I would think there would be one about physically distracting another contestant by touching them.  Yelling out a joke is one thing.  Wrapping up their face while they're trying to work ("Can you breathe?"  "A little bit.")  . . . just strikes me as over a line.

I personally think that Kentaro was pretty pissed off.  (I'm now reading that some thought he liked it - I didn't get that impression whatsoever. He seemed impatient and didn't remotely smile.) But yeah I like any moment surrounding him because I like him.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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2 hours ago, Former Nun said:

I saw it differently...and something "playful" that Kentaro even enjoyed.   For me, the "bitch" comment was just kidding between friends.

I see your point . . . but I remember Kentaro being VERY playful when he wished to be.  But it was always verbally playful - and he was still working while playing ("Salmon?  Santa?  Merry Christmas, Kenya").  

Although some don't agree, even though this is a competition for a TV show, I also see their time in the workroom as "working."  I've worked for several large companies, and there is a "no exceptions" rule against touching another employee without their consent - even in jest.

Besides, Michael OBVIOUSLY should have spent more time working and less time playing.

I do agree that the "bitch" comment was in jest . . . but he said it as he was immediately stopping what he was doing to unwrap his face - which he should not have had to do.

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It's funny how every season we speculate who will make Final 3, who will be cut right before, etc., when most recent seasons actually end up having all 4 final designers show a collection. The only recent season that only had 3 people show was Season 11 (Michelle, Stanley, Patricia). 3 designers was the standard for seasons 1-8 with 3 as the only outlier. 

Edmond's elimination and subsequent Save right before fashion week was just for show/drama, and will likely happen again if Tim doesn't use his save by Top 4. But I'm fully expecting to see an Ayana/Brandon/Kentaro finale with one of Kenya/Margarita.

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4 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Then the model would have a claim for damages against the production company for medical treatment, pain and suffering.  Take THAT, Weinstein!!!

Except for googling shows that fire hoses don't have fiberglass in them.

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14 minutes ago, speac said:

Except for googling shows that fire hoses don't have fiberglass in them.

Well, shoot.  That's going to be a problem with the lawsuit.  LOL.

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4 hours ago, mansonlamps said:

How would Margarita or Kenya in the top three be any less diverse?

 

Was it just me or was Brandon's top the exact same silhouette as his first unconventional challenge?

There is a hyper sensitivity in our society regarding Muslims.  That was my thought.  

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34 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Although some don't agree, even though this is a competition for a TV show, I also see their time in the workroom as "working."  I've worked for several large companies, and there is a "no exceptions" rule against touching another employee without their consent - even in jest.

It doesn't have anything to do with them 'working' or being on a set or in a work environment. I believe there is a rule about touching other contestants without their consent. I have seen it across all types of competition/reality shows and all through the years. If you touch a contestant without their consent you are out! I've seen contestants bait other contestants just to try to get them angry enough to touch them so they'd be thrown off the show.

That is why I'm sure Kentaro gave his 'consent' either explicitly and it was edited out, or implicitly when he didn't say 'stop' I am sure if he had said stop or don't touch me in any way Michael would've stopped or he would've been off the show.

As far as the 'costumey' feel of Margarita's and Ayana's looks. (and I loved Ayana's) I don't recall exactly what Tim said they were supposed to do other than just using the materials provided. If they weren't told to create 'a cocktail dress' or 'an evening look' then it was up to them to decide what to make so why not a costume. I think Ayana did say something about wanting to 'go big'? or something after the good critiques she got for the Avant Garde challenge.

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3 hours ago, Former Nun said:

I saw it differently...and something "playful" that Kentaro even enjoyed.   For me, the "bitch" comment was just kidding between friends.

I agree.  It was a male bonding moment.  Calling him a bitch was well played.  ;^)

5 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

I believe there is a rule about touching other contestants without their consent. I have seen it across all types of competition/reality shows and all through the years. If you touch a contestant without their consent you are out! I've seen contestants bait other contestants just to try to get them angry enough to touch them so they'd be thrown off the show.

I think the rule is you cannot touch another in anger.  On BB a house guest slapped women on their bottom until he was told not to, by the women!  Production did not get involved  IIRC.   It wasn't sexual it was the same kind of slap men do to each other sometimes.  Intent is key.  

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1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

I've worked for several large companies, and there is a "no exceptions" rule against touching another employee without their consent - even in jest.

The fashion industry is probably different.   Zac Posen is a good example.

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25 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

The fashion industry is probably different.   Zac Posen is a good example.

But by nature of the model/judge relationship, one might think that the model has given implied consent to be touched.

Edited by AZChristian
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On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 11:20 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Ugh.  She was beloved on Suburgatory, but I couldn't stand her dead eyes and horrific voice.  I didn't know until tonight that that's her real voice.  *Shiver*

I thought she was very rude and unkind, for no apparent reason.   Some people do let a little power go to their head.  Did not mind her voice, but she was awfully snarky and could have used a hairdresser if she was going to be on TV.

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3 hours ago, ArmoPrincess said:

And . . . I loved Ayana's look.
 

I feel like I've been so negative lately, heh. But I  loved Ayana's, too. I also loved her personal look. She looked absolutely gorgeous in that scarlet outfit. So pretty.

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Just now, carrps said:

I feel like I've been so negative lately, heh. But I  loved Ayana's, too. I also loved her personal look. She looked absolutely gorgeous in that scarlet outfit. So pretty.

Oh yes, the red dress with the sparkly red hijab was beautiful!

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I guess I'm a little confused because some of the designers looked like they were going for avant-garde.  Typically, they want the unconventional challenges to turn out designs that look like real materials were used.  They clearly awarded an avant-garde look. 

On October 20, 2017 at 0:29 AM, Miss Ruth said:

If they didn't want those hoses to be used, they shouldn't have been included.

I think Michael will be back next week.

They often include material in the unconventional challenges, but it's made clear that the material should not be the majority of the outfit. Tim even reinforced this to Kentaro, who dismissed it. 

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7 hours ago, slothgirl said:

Liris drives me up a pole. She radiates DIVA!!!!! She sells the hell out of some of the looks she's had to wear, but the arrogance is so off-putting. I always get the feeling she is trying to overcompensate in the "self-confidence" department for being a plus size woman.

Glad to see I'm not alone.  She does seem to come across as feeling she is better than any of the other models and that the designers she works with should be grateful to have her.  She's attactive and she can strut, but that doesn't mean she makes everything she wears golden.  If she was as good as she appears to think she is she would have been able to sell Kentaro's look this week too.     

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Oh, Michael.  You got to illustrate, "One week you're in and the next week, you're out."  From the top to...not.  I didn't care for his look last week and this week, cripes!  At least he didn't send her out in underwear and bungee cords.

Brandon: I just get a sense of deja vu with his work.

I liked Ayana's look.  I think she deserved the win.

Kenya seems to psych herself out with these challenges.  Her look was ok.

Margarita's look was ok.  Didn't care for the helmet shoulders.

Kentaro:  I thought the basic design was ok.  Wouldn't have thought to cut up a hose like that.  The embellishments and styling did him in.

 

So, how exactly did Lexus fit in to this challenge?  Was it to show that it can haul a lot of crap from one location to another?  Hell, my much smaller car can do that too.

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33 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

...but it's made clear that the material should not be the majority of the outfit. Tim even reinforced this to Kentaro, who dismissed it.  

If that's the case, then so did Kenya with her seatbelts, and Brandon with the rubber/plastic raft, or whatever it was.  They are usually told not to use a huge amount of fabric bought at Mood or the provided muslin, but I don't recall their being told how much of the unconventional materials to use.   Korto is famous for her seatbelt coatdress made entirely of the belts.

Edited by Miss Ruth
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The issue isn't so much one of rules as perception. They do intentionally give them some unconventional materials that are very fabriclike. But they also make a point of frowning on leaning too hard on the fabriciest of those materials. It's not that the judges don't want them to use them, they do. But they make a big hooplah of the "transform" aspect of the challenge. It's basically a "don't choose the easiest route or we'll frown at you".

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I thought  Kentaro looked.... displeased as he cut away the face tape. 

Somewhere,  there's a ChaCha imagining the most glorious gown of airbags and seat-belt buckles!

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13 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

The issue isn't so much one of rules as perception. They do intentionally give them some unconventional materials that are very fabriclike. But they also make a point of frowning on leaning too hard on the fabriciest of those materials. It's not that the judges don't want them to use them, they do. But they make a big hooplah of the "transform" aspect of the challenge. It's basically a "don't choose the easiest route or we'll frown at you".

Unless you're Brandon. This season is starting to remind me of Sean's season of fringe. 

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1 hour ago, sofaslug said:

Kentaro:  I thought the basic design was ok.  Wouldn't have thought to cut up a hose like that.  The embellishments and styling did him in.

I'll always blame Tim and "hair and makeup" for those.  Kentaro was going just fine...and creatively...until Tim butted in with his mistaken description of "fabric."   It wasn't a curtain; it wasn't a blanket; it wasn't some flat/flimsy piece of material that required no manipulation, TIM!

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15 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

Now that the Manson twins are gone, all I can focus on is trying to figure out WTF kind of accent Brandon is supposed to have. 

"Stoner"

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I was kind of tired when I was watching the show, but it seems to me I heard Tim encourage Brandon to add his signature straps to his outfit this week.

My other question about Brandon is this:  If he is, in fact, a menswear designer, then presumably he has some experience in making shirts for men.  It's not that hard to adapt aspects of a man's shirt for a woman, so why heavy reliance on a shapeless crop top?  I am assuming he wants to back away from the menswear, but I feel like he stumbled onto a top the first week and has just been leaning heavily on it ever since.  I think he could do better.

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I'm unclear about the reason for viewing Kentaro as a victim. He chose to make that garment. Not Tim. He could have taken Tim's advice and still made a better garment than that disaster. He also chose that styling. Avon didn't make him do it. It clearly wasn't Liris forcing it on him. When asked a question on the runway, Liris answered it. The runway sessions last for hours and each of the models may have been asked the question, but it wasn't included in the show. Sure, Liris could have answered it differently, and maybe she did the first six times they asked her. We don't know. 

As to the face tape issue, if this had been a big deal and Kentaro not been a willing participant, this show, in its desperation for DRAMA, would have shown the whole thing, repeated Kentaro's protests on loops, included six talking heads about it, had Tim stage an intervention, asked Kentaro if he wanted to forgive Michael and ended on a cliffhanger.

The designers joke around and do stupid stuff all the time. They are stuck in a room together for ten or twelve hours, then they go home with the same people. They get punchy at times. 

Kentaro is sweet, but he's not a precious flower in need of a protection squad. What he needs to do is start being a consistently great designer instead of being so hit and miss with his looks.

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4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I would suggest reading model Cameron Russell's instagram account.  Dozens upon dozens of models revealing sex assault in the fashion industry.  I'm not saying that's what Zac is doing, but I'm getting really icked out by the idea that being employed as a model is implicit consent to be touched.

https://www.instagram.com/cameronrussell/?hl=en

Please don't misunderstand me; I'm NOT saying it's okay for a model to be groped.  But earlier in this thread there was discussion about Zac's hands being all over Michael's models breasts.  When I looked at the picture, I saw his fingertips on the bungee cord, but it didn't look to me as though he was groping her breasts.  His fingers were straight - not curved around her breast.

If someone knows that a judge is going to be looking closely and touching a garment in a competition, they surely understand that a garment is on their body, and their body may be touched.  Groped?  NO.  Touched?  An understood part of the job for a "human hanger."  

There is no one more averse to being touched by strangers than I am.  Because of that, I would never have a massage by a man, and I go to a female physician.  I would never have been a model, because I know of my personal discomfort.  Well, that and I'm not even 5 feet tall . . . 

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1 hour ago, magpye29 said:

My other question about Brandon is this:  If he is, in fact, a menswear designer, then presumably he has some experience in making shirts for men.  It's not that hard to adapt aspects of a man's shirt for a woman, so why heavy reliance on a shapeless crop top?  I am assuming he wants to back away from the menswear, but I feel like he stumbled onto a top the first week and has just been leaning heavily on it ever since.  I think he could do better.

The short answer: I think he's afraid to deal with boobs.

The longer answer: I think he doesn't know how to fit a bodice to a woman's body, add darts, etc. aka the things he doesn't need to do when he makes men's shirts so he's avoiding these things by making the same shapeless crop top week after week. Even last week when he made a dress, he didn't make anything that was fitted on top.

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