S01.E04: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

[sarthaz]

Speaking slowly with subtitles is totally a Klingon form of torture.  I'll tell them whatever they want to know if they just hurry up and get to the fucking point already!

[legaleagle53]

32 minutes ago, sarthaz said:

Speaking slowly with subtitles is totally a Klingon form of torture.  I'll tell them whatever they want to know if they just hurry up and get to the fucking point already!

So it's like Vogon poetry?

[KimberStormer]

Elon Musk namedrop, ffffffuuuuuuuuuck thaaaaat.  I thought the doctor seemed familiar...he's from My So-Called Life!  Now all old!  I guess that means that I too am all old, because I am exactly Claire Danes's age.  Dang.

They killed the one character I was actually interested in, why do they do this?  And in such a dumb way.  I have to agree, it's Tasha Yar all over again.  Maybe it was the same story, actress wanted out so they killed her in the most ludicrous possible way as revenge.  I look forward to Landry's evil Romulan daughter in a few seasons.

I will say I feel like it's getting better.  This was a more Star Trekish kind of episode than the previous ones.  Of course in a grimdark way, where they are going to kill this tardigrade thingy because this is the real world, mister, and who cares about some spotted owls when there's an oil pipeline to run dammit!  But still, "vicious creature is actually friendly" is classic Trek in a nutshell.

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:44 PM, Frozendiva said:

Why would the previous captain leave Michael a hologram living will?

What's living about it?  She's dead.

21 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

 Michael is smart and competent and I like the fact that she tried to learn more about Ripper with an open mind, without prejudices, and now she has been the first to understand that treating it like that is wrong. Very Vulcan of her.

Very TOS Vulcan, anyway (ever since DS9 apparently, Vulcans have become Space Racists), though not very Michael Burnham, going by anything we've seen so far.  However, as I say, I do much prefer that old-school (Horta, as you say) approach to any foolish consistency.  I'd rather have an inconsistent main character I can actually like than a consistently terrible person.  (Let the record show that -- Kirk Drift again -- it is Kirk who decides not to shoot at the Horta, when Spock is telling him to kill it over the radio.)

16 hours ago, Charlesman said:

I may have missed some dialog... Was it explained why the strategic resource that provides the crucial fuel that powers Starfleet was left unguarded, with no ships close by at all? 

This is also very Classic Trek, particularly TOS movies Trek, where the Enterprise was always the "only ship in the quadrant!", even when that quadrant included the planet Earth.  Although crazy, I will accept it as Starfleet Regulations that all ships must spread out in such a way as to leave massive gaps in their defensive perimeter. 

[Helena Dax]

19 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

 

Very TOS Vulcan, anyway (ever since DS9 apparently, Vulcans have become Space Racists), though not very Michael Burnham, going by anything we've seen so far.  However, as I say, I do much prefer that old-school (Horta, as you say) approach to any foolish consistency.  I'd rather have an inconsistent main character I can actually like than a consistently terrible person.  (Let the record show that -- Kirk Drift again -- it is Kirk who decides not to shoot at the Horta, when Spock is telling him to kill it over the radio.)

Yes, it's Kirk who decides not to shoot at the Horta, but it's Spock who tries to understand the Horta since the beginning. And imo, when Kirk doesn't attack the Horta in that corridor,his conversation with Spock is one of the reasons. Otoh, no Kirk Drift for me, thanks. I know he's not a womaniser action-hero who doesn't care about regulations. 

[marinw]

Ugg, the Klingons!

I heard that in the DS9/TNG/Voy era casting people often hired Shakespearean actors for the Klingon roles because those actors can be “big” in voice and projection. But I don’t see how any actor can act through the makeup of STD. You would get more expression by going full CGI.

Also, the Klingon ship is hideous.

Edited October 10, 2017 by marinw

[2727]

I was sorry to lose Landry because (1) the actress was interesting and (2) the dynamics of her loyalty to Lorca and hostility to Michael would have been interesting to watch unfold. Would Michael have eventually won her over? We'll never know.

Stamets and Saru have been more or less openly antagonistic towards Lorca and the other crew members seem like they can take him or leave him. I like that he isn't automatically the beloved and admired leader; it keeps me guessing. Might he be the first ST traitor-captain? Next week looks bad for him, at any rate.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The frontal lobe is overrated.

Ditto comments upthread, why would Starfleet have left the Shenzhou to be scavenged like that by their enemies? Seems like a big tactical error to me.

I really didn't like Burnham at first because she seemed too sanctimonious but now I'm starting to see how she struggles to find balance between what she knows in her head and what she feels in her heart.

So, per the previews, next week they're going all Clockwork Orange with Lorca?

Quote

Dude is going to get gender reassignment or  become Klingon Theon Greyjoy.

?

[UNOSEZ]

Both saru and stamets seem kinda bitchy to me... Stamets kinda cleaned it up a bit by the end of the episode... But saru still seems offended by Michael's presence.. I hope he doesn't let being the first officer get to his head

[Lokiberry]

On 10/9/2017 at 6:49 AM, paigow said:

Dude is going to get gender reassignment or  become Klingon Theon Greyjoy

Maybe they're going to turn him into those TOS Klingons that look like humans.

[Colorado David]

Doug Jones is 6'4".

[tpel]

10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

How tall is Doug Jones anyway?

I read that he's 6-foot-4, and they have him wear four-inch platform shoes.

1 hour ago, 2727 said:

Stamets and Saru have been more or less openly antagonistic towards Lorca and the other crew members seem like they can take him or leave him. I like that he isn't automatically the beloved and admired leader; it keeps me guessing. Might he be the first ST traitor-captain? Next week looks bad for him, at any rate.

Yeah, from the previews it looks like Lorca gets captured. Most times on Trek, when this happens, the crew is distraught because they love and/or admire their captain. Don't think that's the case with Lorca, though the crew appeared quite motivated to get him back. I did feel for Lorca when his captor shined light in his eyes, given that we know he's light sensitive due to a previous injury.

Edited October 10, 2017 by tpel

[Biggie B]

Is L'Rell male or female? I hope that's the right name - the Klingon who is Voq's right-hand person.

[Sandman]

On 10/8/2017 at 10:22 PM, marinw said:

Lorca is a terrible captian IMO. Playing recordings of people suffering and dying will not solve your spore-drive problem.

I have to admit I was a little stunned by this. Setting aside the "no conflict within Starfleet" rule is one thing, but this just seems like poor management.  Maybe Lorca (I keep wanting to call him "Jason of Star Command," because he seems to have wandered in from another show) thinks the Discovery is a pirate ship? Does he figure morale is for sissies? "You're all terrible, and sloppy, and too needy! Be better at your jobs" doesn't exactly scream "crew loyalty and cohesion!"

[marinw]

35 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Does he figure morale is for sissies? "You're all terrible, and sloppy, and too needy! Be better at your jobs" doesn't exactly scream "crew loyalty and cohesion!"

I miss Picard.

[tennisgurl]

I really dont mind subtitles in general. I actually like when they have characters who should be speaking a non English language to each other actually speaking it, and they add subtitles. It adds realism to me, and I just enjoy hearing other languages and people who know what they're saying. Two of my favorite shows in TV now are The Americans and Jane the Virgin, which both feature TONS of long scenes of people speaking foreign languages, with English subtitles. However, the stuff with the Klingon's going on and on in Klingon is just so not engaging to me. Its just a bunch of people in heavy makeup barking at each other, even though the actors are doing a good job with what they have. I think its because in shows like The Americans and Jane the Virgin, the languages being spoken are actually real languages, being spoken by actors who are either native speakers or know the language, so when they talk to each other, it really seems like people having a conversation, even if you dont know what they're saying without the subtitles. The Klingon's just seem like a bunch of drunk cosplayers who are really enjoying the Klingon setting on Google Translate. It never seems like people really having a conversation or speech. Even on shows like Vikings where they have characters peaking Old English and Old Norse, its used to make points about cultural differences or just to explore these ancient languages and dialects. Maybe this will happen later in the show, but right now, the Klingon scenes seem kind of pointless. 

[Sandman]

47 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

The Klingon's just seem like a bunch of drunk cosplayers who are really enjoying the Klingon setting on Google Translate. It never seems like people really having a conversation or speech.

Whatever is the Klingon equivalent of "Eeeexcellent!" you may consider that I've just said (or snarled, or howled, or whatever) that.

[kokapetl]

Dilithium is apparently incredibly valuable, but somehow also not valuable enough to bother salvaging from a large spaceship, or worth the effort it would take to stop that dilithium mining facility from burning to the ground?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Kokapetl

[CanadaPhil]

18 hours ago, marinw said:

I miss Picard.

Ahhhh... good old Jeeve's the Butler. 

When he wasn't tooting his own flute he could always be found tugging on his poorly tailored polyester pantsuit... year after year... after year... after year... Well, like this...

Edited October 11, 2017 by CanadaPhil

[Kromm]

On 10/10/2017 at 0:49 AM, LittleIggy said:

Thank you! I was going to post the exact same thing. Everything stops when those effing so-called Klingons come on the screen. They could bore the universe into submission.

I still don’t like Michael. She comes off as humorless and self-righteous. Lorca, on the other hand, rocks. Jason Isaacs is the man!

I felt sorry for the alien rhino thing. They better not kill it.

How tall is Doug Jones anyway?

Rhino? I thought it was more like one of these, but huge, alien and deadly...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade

Which even though to me doesn't look much like a bear, people seem to call them "Water Bears".

[tpel]

On 10/10/2017 at 4:30 PM, Sandman said:

Lorca is a terrible captian IMO. Playing recordings of people suffering and dying will not solve your spore-drive problem.

 

On 10/10/2017 at 4:30 PM, Sandman said:

I have to admit I was a little stunned by this. Setting aside the "no conflict within Starfleet" rule is one thing, but this just seems like poor management.  Maybe Lorca (I keep wanting to call him "Jason of Star Command," because he seems to have wandered in from another show) thinks the Discovery is a pirate ship? Does he figure morale is for sissies? "You're all terrible, and sloppy, and too needy! Be better at your jobs" doesn't exactly scream "crew loyalty and cohesion!"

While I agree that this was a very unpleasant thing to do, I believe the strategy behind it made sense. Stamets had just gone off about how he was a scientist and Lorca was co-opting his work for military purposes . . . which is absolutely true. This was Lorca's way of saying (to Stamets and others who might be thinking the same), "Fine, you're not 100% on board with my war efforts. How do you feel about dying children? Because that's the other reason to kick it into high gear, despite the risks." He wasn't punishing them for past sloppiness, but trying to motivate some serious overachieving. It's awful, because most of the crew were already giving it their all, and there was no guarantee they would succeed. So, if they failed, they would have the added burden of being viscerally aware of the suffering of the colonists. But it might have given folks like Stamets a clarity of purpose, which could have contributed to their success. I find the tactic to be emotionally manipulative, but also kind of brilliant, which aptly describes Lorca.

This makes the set-up for next week interesting. Lorca is a bit of an asshole, but an effective one. So, when he's in danger, I bet the thought crosses Stamets' and others' minds: Would it really be so bad if he didn't come back alive? The answer . . . after a loooong pause . . . is "yes". Whatever one thinks of his personality, his skills are an asset to Starfleet. And he knows military intelligence that we wouldn't want falling into the wrong hands. So, of course, the crew will work to save him. But the question never came up for other captains we've known, let alone the considered response.

[Athena5217]

The actions of this show’s characters are completely illogical.  Why would the Klingons leave the only ship with cloaking technology stranded? Didn’t Kahless teach them that strategy is an important part of battle? How did someone stupid enough to let the dangerous beast out of the cage pass the Starfleet entrance exam? Wonder boy Wesley Crusher didn’t pass that exam the first time so it must be hard. Finally, maybe Starfleet shouldn’t leave defenseless the planet that provides the stuff that runs their ships. 

I’m trying hard to pretend that these Klingons don’t look like either TOS or TNG Klingons, but eating Georgiou is just too much. I don’t remember any Star Trek episodes where the Klingons ate people or anything remotely like people.

[Sandman]

21 hours ago, tpel said:

This was Lorca's way of saying (to Stamets and others who might be thinking the same), "Fine, you're not 100% on board with my war efforts. How do you feel about dying children? Because that's the other reason to kick it into high gear, despite the risks." He wasn't punishing them for past sloppiness, but trying to motivate some serious overachieving. It's awful, because most of the crew were already giving it their all, and there was no guarantee they would succeed. So, if they failed, they would have the added burden of being viscerally aware of the suffering of the colonists. But it might have given folks like Stamets a clarity of purpose, which could have contributed to their success. I find the tactic to be emotionally manipulative, but also kind of brilliant, which aptly describes Lorca.

I think the risks of failure outweighed the value in shaking the crew out of their (potential) resistance, which undercuts its brilliance a bit. Even if successful, it would likely leave the crew with the burden of a visceral, and potentially nightmarish, acquaintance with the suffering of the colonists. The maneuver is emotionally manipulative, as you point out, and might well have given Stamets and others no improvement in their clarity of focus and commitment, but rather, well, lasting trauma, resentment of authority, and grounds for official complaint. The stick can be as effective a motivator as the carrot, but doesn't the stick have constraints on it, in the context of military discipline? It's supposed to be a stick, not a chainsaw. It's a matter of proportion, I'd say.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Sandman

[marinw]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

The maneuver is emotionally manipulative, as you point out, and might well have given Stamets and others no improvement in their clarity of focus and commitment, but rather, well, lasting trauma, resentment of authority, and grounds for official complaint. The stick can be as effective a motivator as the carrot, but doesn't the stick have constraints on it, in the context of military discipline? It's supposed to be a stick, not a chainsaw.

Well said @Sandman. His command style may have also contributed to Landry dying of stupidity, she seemed so desperate to comply with her captain.

[tpel]

Yeah, I think it did contribute to Landry's death, but that required a whole other layer of stupid. The time sequence was: Lorca plays the audio of the colonists, then Landry immediately decides to open the confinement area to lop off one of the creature's claws, then later Burnham figures out that the creature can talk to the spores and she and Stamets devise a navigation plan. So, at the time Landry made her decision, she had absolutely no reason to believe that studying the creature had anything to do with saving the colony. Her job, with regard to the creature, was to figure out how to emulate its natural defenses. The best guess I can make for her thought process is: "My boss is frustrated about Immediate Problem A (navigation to save colony). I can't do anything to solve that problem. So I'm going to go to any lengths to solve Less-Immediate Problem B (the endless quest for weapons). That should make him happy." That's terrible reasoning.  I'm quite sure that, if she'd asked Lorca about going ahead with her plan, he would have told her not to -- for one thing, Burnham, whom he'd just taken pains to recruit, could easily have been killed. 

Still, he definitely triggered her action, in some way. One wouldn't think Lorca's leadership style would garner him such devotion. It seems more likely to lead to resentment, as Sandman noted. But perhaps people who are emotionally in need of an authoritarian figure do gravitate toward him, and, being in his thrall, make bad decisions a la Landry. To his credit, Lorca seems to actively try to surround himself with the opposite sort of person. He tolerates blatant contempt from Stamets. He sought out a mutineer. These are people who will never follow him blindly, and that's how he wants it.

I seem to be defending Lorca a lot :-)  I do find him interesting and, at the moment, he's up there with Saru as one of my favorites. What can I say? I gravitate toward dark-but-not-completely-evil characters. However, I'm still not sure I like this quality in a Starfleet Captain. I suppose having the captain not be the POV character frees the writers up to make him less than a paragon of virtue. But I'm still pining a bit for previous Treks' more optimistic view of human nature. 

[marinw]

39 minutes ago, tpel said:

I seem to be defending Lorca a lot :-)  I do find him interesting

I grant that Lorca is a complex, interesting character and Jason Isaacs is killing it.  Lorca certainly does not seem like a classic Starship Captain like Kirk, Picard or Janeway, and that’s part of what’s freaking me out. He scares me. 

We have seen some unstable captains in the various Treks, but those were one-off characters who contrasted sharply with the sane, noble captain in command on the Enterprise or Voyager. Here, we may be seeing how a captain can go down that path.  I’m spoiler free, so I may be wrong in this, but I’m waiting for him to go full Captain Ahab.

[Pacodakat]

On 10/9/2017 at 8:57 AM, CanadaPhil said:

Ok... Let's catch you up as you may have missed this bit...

The Klingons on the pimped out Cadillac Funeral Ship lead by the slow-talking Albino Preacher feasted on Captain Georgoiu's corpse... and liked it.

PS: And as they are Klingons we can probably assume they ate her raw. 

Thanks...........CanadaPhil? I guess I needed to know that?? 

[readster]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:48 PM, Athena5217 said:

The actions of this show’s characters are completely illogical.  Why would the Klingons leave the only ship with cloaking technology stranded? Didn’t Kahless teach them that strategy is an important part of battle? How did someone stupid enough to let the dangerous beast out of the cage pass the Starfleet entrance exam? Wonder boy Wesley Crusher didn’t pass that exam the first time so it must be hard. Finally, maybe Starfleet shouldn’t leave defenseless the planet that provides the stuff that runs their ships. 

I’m trying hard to pretend that these Klingons don’t look like either TOS or TNG Klingons, but eating Georgiou is just too much. I don’t remember any Star Trek episodes where the Klingons ate people or anything remotely like people.

Yes, I don't get why they have changed the Kligons so much from both ships to designs. It doesn't speak of the amazing warrior race, who held honor above anything. They now come across as a bunch of space cavemen and women who are: "You die we eat, Kahless said this, but we don't follow any of that." I still don't know why Vulcans have to come across as assholes, that's not who they were. They were a  race that looked to logic and tried to keep their emtions in check. The Romulans were the opposite and didn't look at logic and looked to conquest and cunning and the Remans were even darker. I liked how that was set up for decades, even if they didn't show the Remans until Nemsis, it worked well. Even JJ Abrams made note in the relaunch. Now they are: "Humans, Klingons, Uridans, such a waste of space and atoms." 

[kokapetl]

On 11/10/2017 at 11:36 PM, CanadaPhil said:

Ahhhh... good old Jeeve's the Butler. 

When he wasn't tooting his own flute he could always be found tugging on his poorly tailored polyester pantsuit... year after year... after year... after year... Well, like this...

It’s gabardine wool. 

[starri]

5 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

It’s gabardine wool. 

From S3 onward.  The original ones were Spandex.

[MissLucas]

So when L'Rell told Vog that the Bene Gesserit matriarchs will expose him to things not thought possible in order to help him win the war and that he has to sacrifice 'everything' I was for a brief moment hoping the matriarchs could kick off a genetic overhaul of all Klingons. It's bad enough they look like constipated goldfish but their speech pattern that brings the show to a grinding halt every time they're on screen is worse. (The font is not helping - down with small caps!)

Edited October 14, 2017 by MissLucas

[Ely]

Well, the captain's a bully, I guess. I hope the next ep will humble him and make him tone it a down a little... which, no. I'm kidding myself. I still miss traditional ST-captains. I just do. That being said, Jason Isaac is a delight to watch. As is Anthony Rapp and Staments' bitchiness towards the captain. I'm guessing Stament won't enter history as a brilliant scientist because we never heard of him in the other shows? Or have we? That's where a show set in the past of an overall canon stumbles over itself. The viewers always know a little more than the characters. Except, of course, if they are willing to accept a little contrivancy.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has trouble connecting to the Klingons. It feels like they try so hard to make them unique and threatening but I just cannot get past their prothetics and language. I find myself longing for the Borg.

The doctor's appearance was short and sweet, I hope he won't get killed in the next few episodes.

I was siding with Michael this time, which is good. I feel like the characters were a lot more rounded this time.

[Oldbugger]

OK, I've had it with the Klingon dialect...  it was interesting in the 1st episode, but by the end of this episode, I was fast forwarding.  I don't care how relevant this dialogue with sub-titles is to the story – not gonna listen to that crap ‘ad infinitum’.  It is like watching paint dry.

And I’m not enjoying the series as much as I’d hoped.  In by teens, back in the 60’s, I became instantly hooked on the program, watching each new series from beginning to end, ever since.  Hope this picks up...

I’m enjoying ‘The Orville’ more than this...

[Kromm]

27 minutes ago, Oldbugger said:

I’m enjoying ‘The Orville’ more than this...

Mostly because even though some of McFarlane's jokes bomb terribly, aside from that he has the benefit of actually remembering what made Star Trek fun in the first place.

These writers?  They don't. It's like they took the lessons of DS9, the show that even more than TNG was the one to be the first really serious version of Trek, and learned the wrong lessons from it. DS9 was great, but they very much balanced out the serious stuff with lighter moments. This show? Kind of tough to do when you start with the premise of your main protagonist being a mutineer, and then things get even heavier from there.

There's no light to balance the shade. It's tiresome already (plus really badly written).

[Oldbugger]

1 hour ago, Kromm said:

Mostly because even though some of McFarlane's jokes bomb terribly, aside from that he has the benefit of actually remembering what made Star Trek fun in the first place.

Re Orville, sometimes its funny *because* the jokes have kinda bombed.... ;-)   A laugh track would have been a brutally bad idea -- sure glad they didn't do that.  It seems to have just has the right blend of campy humor and seriousness...  It's going to be fun to see how they develop it thru the rest of the season...!

[marinw]

18 minutes ago, Oldbugger said:

A laugh track would have been a brutally bad idea -- sure glad they didn't do that.

Wow. I didn't even notice the lack of a laugh track! You are right, it's good they didn't go to there.

[North of Eden]

Just watched now so I am seriously far behind but....seriously you killed LANDRY?! She was the ONLY character that I liked and now she's off the show? And not one person really seemed to give a damn about it either. They cared more for some anonymous  miners.

Don't get me started on Klingons as Cannabals...there is no F'ing way Worf would ever be descended from this sorry lot. No way!!

Please kill the chief engineer....his outright disrespect is so Anti-Star Trek that I can't take it....Scotty...Geordi...O'Brien...they'd roll up their sleeves and get it done and this sissy wants to whine and moan and insult the captain...I just can't...

[jzygayle]

On 10/15/2017 at 10:55 AM, Ely said:

Well, the captain's a bully, I guess. I hope the next ep will humble him and make him tone it a down a little... which, no. I'm kidding myself. I still miss traditional ST-captains. I just do. That being said, Jason Isaac is a delight to watch.

Yes.  But I wish he was allowed to use the Lucius Malfoy accent.

[John Potts]

You know, for a pseudo-Vulcan, Michael is remarkably emotional. I get that she isn't an actual Vulcan, but she seems to get worked up at people not liking her (well, other than Ensign Tilly).

I knew it was a simulation at the beginning! If nothing else, there were no exploding consoles.

So there WAS a reason Lorca took that creature back onboard - it's even a reasonable one.

Some actual scientific method from Michael! I mean, the "science" is pure Treknobabble, but she observed, formed a hypothesis and tested it.

Do we know how long Lorca has been in command of the Discovery? Because it doesn't seem like the crew is familiar with him and you'd think he wouldn't need to slap down the Chief Engineer like that if he'd been in the post long. It's kinda weird they didn't just have him assume command of the (salvaged and refitted) Shenzhu, because that would make him fit the (Edward Jellico style) role they appear to want him to fill (other than it's not the title of the series!).

On ‎09‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:52 AM, TV Anonymous said:

WTF was Commander Landry thinking?

Definite Darwin Award winner there!

On ‎09‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 8:41 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Michelle Yeoh stops by for a cameo as holographic Georgiou!  That's like the only way we'll keep seeing her (that and flashbacks), because it sounded like the Klingons actually ate her body.  Eww.

Hey, the Klingons can't afford to let good protein go to waste. Especially if they're not eating their own dead.

On ‎09‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 10:23 PM, Ariah said:

It's like they want to be so dark and brooding and ask questions what is morally applicable and whatnot, but it's war. People are dying. If there's a technology that makes it possible to jump behind enemy lines, it's no use to cry over a creature.

Well, aside from any moral considerations, it would help to know if they ARE killing the creature. Your secret weapon isn't going to be much use if they suddenly can't use it because one of the "components" is dead.

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:42 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

why would Starfleet have left the Shenzhou to be scavenged like that by their enemies? Seems like a big tactical error to me.

Hey, they got the important things out... like the Captain's telescope! Though even if it was considered too risky to retrieve the warp core, you'd think they'd scuttle the ship to stop the Klingons getting it.

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:20 PM, tennisgurl said:

I really don't mind subtitles in general. I actually like when they have characters who should be speaking a non English language to each other actually speaking it, and they add subtitles... However, the stuff with the Klingon's going on and on in Klingon is just so not engaging to me.

I have to agree. I guess they want to show off the effort they've put into the Klingon make up/outfits to have them go, "It's the enemy! Attack!" - we have to have long, long scenes of Klingon religion.

[Mom x 3]

As I rewatch the series, I noticed in the emergency message from Corvin V that one of the settlers mentioned was named Zaphod.  I thought that was a nice little nod to Douglas Adams.  

[LJones41]

Quote

You know, for a pseudo-Vulcan, Michael is remarkably emotional. I get that she isn't an actual Vulcan, but she seems to get worked up at people not liking her (well, other than Ensign Tilly).

Michael is a HUMAN.  How is this news to you?  She had spent the first ten to eleven years of her life being raised by her HUMAN parents.

[LilJen]

On 10/10/2017 at 11:42 AM, tpel said:

I read that he's 6-foot-4, and they have him wear four-inch platform shoes.

He’s awfully thin, too, which adds to the impression that he’s about 8 feet tall.

[AngelKitty]

On 10/9/2017 at 7:49 AM, paigow said:

Dude is going to get gender reassignment or  become Klingon Theon Greyjoy

That's what I thought too!

On 10/15/2017 at 5:09 PM, Kromm said:

Mostly because even though some of McFarlane's jokes bomb terribly, aside from that he has the benefit of actually remembering what made Star Trek fun in the first place.

I agree with this, at least at this point. This show just doesn't feel like Star Trek to me while The Orville does. And that's not to say I dislike it, it just means that I have to put all the other Star Treks out of my mind when I watch.

[John Potts]

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 9:21 PM, LJones41 said:

Michael is a HUMAN.  How is this news to you?

It's not - that's why I said pseudo Vulcan. But Vulcans have emotions, they are just trained to repress them (other than in exceptional circumstances). A human who has received the same training for most of their life should not be as emotional as Michael is shown to be, they should seem robotic (to humans at least).

[rmontro]

I just started watching this and so far it's better than I had heard.  I can see indications where it might go south quickly however.  

So far, the thing I dislike the most is the way they changed the Klingons, although they at least seem in character.  Although I'm beginning to wonder if there will be gender neutral bathrooms on Klingon ships.

The other issue is I find the spore drive to be ridiculous, but maybe there's solid science behind it that I'm not aware of.

I'm also wondering if this is going to be a Game of Thrones type show where they kill off main characters a lot.

[ketose]

On 10/8/2017 at 11:44 PM, Frozendiva said:

The Klingon language is guttural. I am impressed that the show's creators or a linguist of sorts created more of a language than there has been in all of Trek.

The spore tech really reminds me of Stargate Atlantis and Rodney and 'wormhole drive'. It didn't exploit a creature and was based of mathematics. Felt sorry for the creature.

There's been an entire Klingon dictionary for decades. I don't even know if they're using it.

I'm not sure what the wormhole drive refers to in Atlantis. The big McGuffin on that show was the ZPM, which they couldn't make but contained massive energy.

 

On 10/9/2017 at 5:50 PM, 2727 said:

I don't think this is part of my overall boredom with the Klingon storyline, but it does make me a little uncomfortable that the supposed savior/torchbearer of a dark-skinned people is the albino white guy.

I think "Let that Be Your Last Battlefield" was the best "race" episode of Trek because the people in it were black and white. It was the half of the face that was the distinction.

 

On 10/9/2017 at 7:20 PM, Sandman said:

Right? The Improbability Drive-slash-Jump Engine is powered by melang --um, 'shrooms. I mean, spores!

Would this put the fanboys out of joint? I can a imagine subset of Trekkers who might complain if they don't hear enough gutturals and fricatives to assuage their Klingon-jones...

In most of Trek, Klingon is spoken ceremonially and the Klingons mostly speak English, or sound like they do, even on their own ships. Even when they speak Klingon, it is not one syl'la'ble at a time.

 

On 10/10/2017 at 10:00 AM, 2727 said:

I was sorry to lose Landry because (1) the actress was interesting and (2) the dynamics of her loyalty to Lorca and hostility to Michael would have been interesting to watch unfold. Would Michael have eventually won her over? We'll never know.

Stamets and Saru have been more or less openly antagonistic towards Lorca and the other crew members seem like they can take him or leave him. I like that he isn't automatically the beloved and admired leader; it keeps me guessing. Might he be the first ST traitor-captain? Next week looks bad for him, at any rate.

It seems like the ship was a science vessel before the war and Starfleet assigned Lorca to it. A lot of the crew is reacting to the warship aspects of the command.

 

On 10/10/2017 at 5:06 PM, marinw said:

I miss Picard.

Lorca definitely has a Captain Jellico vibe right now.

 

On 8/4/2019 at 1:00 PM, AngelKitty said:

I agree with this, at least at this point. This show just doesn't feel like Star Trek to me while The Orville does. And that's not to say I dislike it, it just means that I have to put all the other Star Treks out of my mind when I watch.

MacFarlane is a huge Star Trek fan, and if he were given the reins of the franchise, I think he could make a legit Star Trek show. Discovery is more like BSG.

[rmontro]

17 hours ago, ketose said:

Lorca definitely has a Captain Jellico vibe right now.

Jellico songs for Jellico captains!

Sorry, saw Cats recently.

[Bruinsfan]

On 10/10/2017 at 3:17 AM, KimberStormer said:

This is also very Classic Trek, particularly TOS movies Trek, where the Enterprise was always the "only ship in the quadrant!", even when that quadrant included the planet Earth.  Although crazy, I will accept it as Starfleet Regulations that all ships must spread out in such a way as to leave massive gaps in their defensive perimeter. 

Ugh, I'd buried the memory of Star Trek: The Motion Picture having a not-quite-refitted Enterpise being the only starship within interception range of V'ger. Along its straight line path from the Klingon Empire to Earth.

On 10/10/2017 at 7:58 AM, marinw said:

I heard that in the DS9/TNG/Voy era casting people often hired Shakespearean actors for the Klingon roles because those actors can be “big” in voice and projection. But I don’t see how any actor can act through the makeup of STD. You would get more expression by going full CGI.

They wisely hired Doug Jones for the most prominent prosthetic role, as the man can probably convey nuanced, subtle emotions while encased in one of those ping pong ball heads from a Jack in the Box drive thru. But there's only one Doug Jones, and the Klingon actors are just not up to the task.

[rmontro]

45 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Ugh, I'd buried the memory of Star Trek: The Motion Picture having a not-quite-refitted Enterpise being the only starship within interception range of V'ger. Along its straight line path from the Klingon Empire to Earth.

Hey, even in the future bureaucracies are incompetent. 

[mythoughtis]

On 10/18/2017 at 9:44 PM, North of Eden said:

Don't get me started on Klingons as Cannabals...there is no F'ing way Worf would ever be descended from this sorry lot. No way!!

This - a million times. We’ve never once heard the Klingons referred to as cannibals.  They honored their enemies after death if they thought they fought well.  In addition, they would never have left themselves sit there disabled for six months if there was technology to be gotten.  They would have relished the idea that they had retrieved technology from an enemy ship. 
They certainly wouldn’t have abandoned their torchbearer and jumped alliances - that’s not honorable at all. 
 

That poor animal.