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S01.E04: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

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An actual description this time.  An actual, very generic description

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With tensions and stakes high as Starfleet continues in their efforts to end the war with Klingons, Burnham begins to settle in to her new position aboard the U.S.S. Discovery.

The second longest episode title in Trek's history, with only "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" besting it.

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6 hours ago, paigow said:

Has she already killed Saru for a "Mirror Universe" field promotion??

No need... Saru will pull a Kelvin-Spock and voluntarily relinquish his role as first officer to someone he thinks is more qualified for the role.

That, or he contracts a fatal touch of E-Coli after downing a whole bowl of unwashed blueberries. 

Edited by CanadaPhil
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Now we meet long lost sister - Clarice Burnham - who ran away from a farming colony and was presumed dead......

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The actual cat lover in me was in pain because it was clear the kitty was in pain when they were using the drive.

That said, it turns out there WAS a reason the saucer section looks the way it does.  It still seems kind of impractical, but that was a really cool effect.

Speaking off, the shot of Michael's new uniform being fabricated was straight out of Hannibal.

I was reading something that when Mary Chieffo, who plays L'Rell started watching old Klingon episodes to prep for the show, and ended up getting addicted to DS9.  And she's Beth Grant's daughter.  That's two cool points for the rest of her career.

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Hey, now the rim of the saucer section rotates? Why is this design not in Starfleet ships design in the past and the future? 

WTF was Commander Landry thinking? The creature was known to be dangerous and invincible and she just barged in the cage without knowing much about the subject? She did not even check whether the sedation successful or not.

Captain Georgiou left a living will for someone she was still working with? I dunno, I think it is more creepy than endearing.

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5 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

Hey, now the rim of the saucer section rotates? Why is this design not in Starfleet ships design in the past and the future? 

It seems to have something to do with the spore-drive.

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Lorca is a terrible captian IMO. Playing recordings of people suffering and dying will not solve your spore-drive problem.

30 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

WTF was Commander Landry thinking?

And no one seemed too upset by her death. That was the most ignoble death of a security chief since Tasha Yar got slimed by the oil slick.

Edited by marinw
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Discovery is still quite entertaining, and I do enjoy the show, but a few cracks are showing.

  1. Of course the discs spin. I giggled a little at that.
  2. Seriously, no one returned to the scene of battle for six months? And the Klingons just sat there? No communications, nothing? And why wasn't the Shenzhou salvaged?
  3. I'm not finding the Klingons interesting, and their story is not particularly compelling.
  4. The save the miners (and minors) plot was a little over the top and melodramatic for my taste.
  5. Awww, Landry.

Now, after the quibbles: 

  1. I'm still enjoying the crew of the Discovery. Burnham centres this show, and Sonequa Martin-Green is killing it. But I'm liking how driven Stamets and Lorca are, Saru is both professional and brittle with Michael and the rest of the crew are interesting.
  2. I think Discovery's best element is that it doesn't shy away from the key tension of what it means to be in Starfleet. Soldier vs. Explorer. I like that the show is digging into it, and I'm also liking the challenges of both. Landry was too much the soldier, but Stamets is too much the scientist, too dispassionate.
  3. Well, I think we can all see why ships won't be using this tech, though I'm surprised that TNG era computers can't eventually reach the processing power to make the Tardigrades unnecessary.
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14 minutes ago, Unusual Suspect said:
  1. I'm not finding the Klingons interesting, and their story is not particularly compelling.

That's very polite of you. The show grinds to a halt every time they're on-screen. Why do they speak their native language so slooooowly?

I'm waiting for them to find a way to screw me on Landry. I kept asking, "why can't they kill her?" and then they listened to me and did it!  Show runners have never listened to me before.

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Is that really the old Klingon they're speaking? It sounds different to me.  Is this a variation like the new Klingons are a variation of the old ones?

1 hour ago, starri said:

The actual cat lover in me was in pain because it was clear the kitty was in pain when they were using the drive.

I felt so sorry for the poor thing. I hope they Burnham lets it go free soon.

At least it's a call-back to TOS where they frequently had this kind of moral dilemma.

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The Klingon language is guttural. I am impressed that the show's creators or a linguist of sorts created more of a language than there has been in all of Trek.

The spore tech really reminds me of Stargate Atlantis and Rodney and 'wormhole drive'. It didn't exploit a creature and was based of mathematics. Felt sorry for the creature.

Why would the previous captain leave Michael a hologram living will?

A bit confused about the bird of prey ship as I thought the Romulans had the first bird of prey and then the Klingons stole the technology.

Show still needs humour.

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1 hour ago, jcin617 said:

So is this entire ship crewed by morally bankrupt Starfleet officers?  

Starting to look that way.

So far I only like Saru and Tilly. I am not warming up to Burnham yet.

Enough with the Klingons already.  BORING!

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2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Hey, now the rim of the saucer section rotates? Why is this design not in Starfleet ships design in the past and the future? 

WTF was Commander Landry thinking? The creature was known to be dangerous and invincible and she just barged in the cage without knowing much about the subject? She did not even check whether the sedation successful or not.

Captain Georgiou left a living will for someone she was still working with? I dunno, I think it is more creepy than endearing.

Yeah, that's got to be one of the more bone-headed "redshirt" deaths we've seen!

I wasn't creeped out by the last-will-and-testament thing. I imagine officers whose lives are frequently in danger update this sort of thing every few years. 

Lorca seemed more likable to me this week, oddly. His "weaponize everything" agenda isn't nice, but there's a certain purity to it. And the actor gave him nice subtle reactions to things like Landry's death and the colonists' children screaming, so he didn't come off as just a warmonger. 

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The little girl, carried along as explosions barely missed them, looking prayerfully to the sky and saying "Who saved us?" seems to embody everything which is wrong with this show.

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Whelp, I guess I ended up being right last week when I said I hope Landry doesn't get her ass kicked as much as Worf did, because she's already dead!  Impressive! I wonder if/when we'll get the process of getting a new security officer, or will Lorca just assign some random nobody in the role.

Getting glimpses of other members of the bridge crew.  Besides Saru and the woman with the robotic implants and Skrillex haircut, there is the pilot (I think?), who seems human, some dude who looks like he could be a long lost Hemsworth brother, and also someone who looks like Nebula from Guardians of the Galaxy. Hopefully they last longer then Landry did!

They've built up Lorca like some kind of scary badass (in other words, most Jason Issac characters!), but I'm honestly kind of surprised he let Stamets openly challenge him like he did and even make sarcastic quips and responses.  While I won't go as far as to say that Lorca hates all confrontation, I didn't get the sense he would be fine getting sassed like that.  Maybe despite his posturing, maybe he does need Stamets more then he lets on.

Tilly is still managing to entertain me.  Saru is still cool too.

The creature they fought off last week is actually what they use to power the spore machine?  And it looks like it hurts it too, which clearly has upset Michael.

Michelle Yeoh stops by for a cameo as holographic Georgiou!  That's like the only way we'll keep seeing her (that and flashbacks), because it sounded like the Klingons actually ate her body.  Eww.

While I'm warming up to the Discovery team, the Klingon stuff is really doing a number on this show.  I pretty much zone out whenever they show up.  It's like the most boring episode of Game of Thrones ever, with all of the posturing, backstabbing, alliance forming, and dramatic speeches.  Either get more interesting or go through this quickly, and get to something more interesting (like the Romulans!)

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I'm really enjoying the Klingons! At least they have a purpose and a deep pride in their culture. The Federation leaders seem to be a bunch of marshmallows worrying about their careers. I can't help wishing some of these Starfleet Admirals end up as Klingon fodder, they have no idea how to manage an armed force in wartime. I suppose they've been at peace for so long all they know is words. 

I sense a romance developing between Voq and whoever her name is, strangely compelling to be honest. On the Starfleet side, Tilly is the most interesting character. I don't think they've worked out Saru yet. Lorca feels like a real captain ought to. Stamets is one of those officers you have to endure from time to time, but he is showing some willingness to listen at least. 

Burnham just needs to turn the dial down a bit. She's not a new recruit, she was a First Officer and she should have realised it's not all about her by now. But I like her anyway. 

I'm looking forward to each week's new episode. 

Edited by spottedreptile
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6 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

WTF was Commander Landry thinking? The creature was known to be dangerous and invincible and she just barged in the cage without knowing much about the subject? She did not even check whether the sedation successful or not.

 

Yeah, but how would we know how clever Michael is if everyone else isn't a total dummy?

Edited by derriere
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I see we're still extending the plotline of Voyager's "Equinox". We've figured out how to set the creature on fire and make it poop antimatter but we can only do it so many times before it starts tearing shit up.

That security chief died dumb. Lorca already said a phaser set to kill won't hurt it. It reminded me of bad guys targeting Luke Cage in The Defenders. Luke is the only bulletproof one of the group so of course he's the one the bad guys always shoot because they need to make sure or something. Like he's not really bulletproof, we just haven't tried hard enough.

I kind of admire that Klingon survival ethic. Your ship is crippled in battle and you have to eat corpses because you won't scavenge a Starfleet ship? Too bad, so sad, the victorious Klingons will pop in from time to time to laugh at you. That seemed like a very Klingon thing to do.

These Klingons say T'Kuvma more than they say honor and that's saying something! Kahless has got to be getting jealous at this point.

I can understand Discovery jaunting out of battle and leaving a bunch of explosives behind to settle the remaining Klingons. But why? They were one-shotting those little Birds of Prey so why just sit there and take fire when you can take them out with single shots?

Does Starfleet really make funeral cases that will beep incessantly until you open them? That would be really friggin' annoying.

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13 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

WTF was Commander Landry thinking? The creature was known to be dangerous and invincible and she just barged in the cage without knowing much about the subject? She did not even check whether the sedation successful or not.

Completely reckless on her part. The computer said sedation protocol complete. The protocol was complete, not the sedation. Sure, that likely would have knocked out most anything, but Ripper can survive in a variety of extreme environmental conditions. It's not like Michael didn't warn her either. Also, it acts in self-defense so let's point a gun at it.  Another bright idea. 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

The creature they fought off last week is actually what they use to power the spore machine?  And it looks like it hurts it too, which clearly has upset Michael.

Poor guy being used so soon after the previous jump. Hadn't really recovered. 

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I can understand Discovery jaunting out of battle and leaving a bunch of explosives behind to settle the remaining Klingons. But why? They were one-shotting those little Birds of Prey so why just sit there and take fire when you can take them out with single shots?

Thank you. Captain Lorca said he wanted to send a message. Isn't the colony the priority right then? He had spent the entire episode saying that (40% of dilithium). Besides, did he know if there were no other ships converging on the location or if the explosives would have harmed the unshielded colony? There was no guarantee the Klingons would have backed down. With the colony being so important, securing it first is the primary goal. 

I don't know if that was computer autotargeting or a really fast weapons officer, but that was impressive seeing the little ships getting blasted immediately after jumping in.

Edited by DrScottie
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I enjoyed this episode more than the third.but still looking for more humanity and humor to keep me interested. I like that discovery is this ghost ship, used for covert missions. The security officer was very one note so not sad she is gone. I hope that they are replacing her with someone more interesting. Looking to get to know more characters on the ship. I fast forward when the Klingons are on screen. I know I’m probably missing something but I figure I’ll catch up as we go. I just can’t. They’re not interesting. I am only interested in the Discovery, how it works, who is on it…..when they will allow Burnham to smile, emote, be more engaging. …granted she was more relaxed this ep but this thing with the first officer? Why is he scared of her? He wasn’t scared of her before the mutiny.  He was scared of the situation they were in with the Klingons not her. Now only she makes him nervous….shouldn’t the captain make him nervous/scared?? This seems forced to created tension between them.  Not sure why there needs to be tension between them.  They are doing a lot of quick cutting to fit the Klingon scenes in but I want to see more crew interactions. Oh lord, more Klingons next week….le sigh. 

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48 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

These Klingons say T'Kuvma more than they say honor and that's saying something! Kahless has got to be getting jealous at this point.

I find it hilarious that in later years, not a single Klingon will remember "T'Kuvma the Unforgettable".

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I find the Klingons boring as hell, but I love everything else. Michael is smart and competent and I like the fact that she tried to learn more about Ripper with an open mind, without prejudices, and now she has been the first to understand that treating it like that is wrong. Very Vulcan of her.  I can see Spock reacting in the same way, e.g, Horta.

Stamet was more likeable in this episode.

Lorca seems to be a very good captain, but I'm not sure he feels like a Starfleet captain. Too dark, maybe. Too present day. I miss the time when Starfleet captains were soft and squishy and stopped to smell the flowers. Anyway, I love Isaacs and he's doing a great work. You can look at Lorca and see a man who still feels things, deep down; it's just that being a hardass comes first.

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Poor macro-germ kitty cat.

Poor Rekha Sharma. She's just doomed to play unlikeable characters who die well-deserved deaths, isn't she? 

Poor betrayed Klingon. At least he has L'Rell. And some matriarchs? I didn't quite get that part.

Poor Stamets. But that doctor is the one he's supposed to start dating, right? Hey, at least he got a meet cute out of his grotesquely injured nose.

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23 minutes ago, Vandy10 said:

Poor betrayed Klingon. At least he has L'Rell. And some matriarchs? I didn't quite get that part.

Dude is going to get gender reassignment or  become Klingon Theon Greyjoy

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1 hour ago, Vandy10 said:

 

Poor Rekha Sharma. She's just doomed to play unlikeable characters who die well-deserved deaths, isn't she? 

 

That scowl she seems to have permanently etched on her expression has never helped.  

And Kitty is not used to being a house cat. They need to let it frolic and poop in the Avatar garden. 

Oh... and throw in a few Tribbles for it to chase. 

Edited by CanadaPhil
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4 hours ago, Pacodakat said:

....I fast forward when the Klingons are on screen. I know I’m probably missing something but I figure I’ll catch up as we go....

Ok... Let's catch you up as you may have missed this bit...

The Klingons on the pimped out Cadillac Funeral Ship lead by the slow-talking Albino Preacher feasted on Captain Georgoiu's corpse... and liked it.

PS: And as they are Klingons we can probably assume they ate her raw. 

Edited by CanadaPhil

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I may have missed some dialog... Was it explained why the strategic resource that provides the crucial fuel that powers Starfleet was left unguarded, with no ships close by at all? 

I mean, the US used to fight to protect abandoned islands that had large amounts of bat droppings on them, and we still use the Guano Act to claim territory today, because it was used to make gunpowder. You'd think Starfleet would have some extra protection around such an important resource (although when the Borg got through the 'Mars Defense Perimeter', I think it was comprised of about three shuttlecraft, so maybe Starfleet just doesn't believe in defense). 

Edited by Charlesman
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2 hours ago, Charlesman said:

I may have missed some dialog... Was it explained why the strategic resource that provides the crucial fuel that powers Starfleet was left unguarded, with no ships close by at all? 

Yes, it was. According to Admiral Cornwell, the Klingons ambushed the blockade protecting it and the communique from the colony indicated the patrol ships were destroyed. What that blockade consisted of, it was never said.

Edited by DrScottie
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I like the feel of the episode I think more than any of the other episodes,.  I think it might be because it sets up a moral quandary that actually seems to be bothering Michael.   But then I think about the details.  Why would Landry assume the anesthetic would knock out the creature without even checking? Who stopped to grab Captain Georgiou's telescope when they were evacuating the ship, but left behind a recoverable dilithium processor?  ( I guess the idea was it wasn't safe to remove the processor, but why didn't they blow up the ship on the way out then?)  How did the telescope catch up with Michael now when she was literally supposed to be on a prison shuttle out of there yesterday?  How could they possibly know exactly how long the shield's on the planet were going to last? The Klingons just sat there for six months starving to death for six months?  Six months is a really long time to ignore the Shenzhou on principal before finally giving up.

But still, I liked it the feels and as least the non-Klingon parts moved at a decent clip.

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2 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Maybe captain Phillipa had the telescope at home and the one on the ship was a different one... 

The one from the ship was missing from the ready room when the Klingons got there.

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The Klingons are so bad.  They look like The Master from Buffy.  Why do they have no hair? I'm really puzzled by we keep getting such long scenes with them.  How do they ever accomplish anything as a race when they speak so slowly?  I just don't understand this whole storyline.  

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I really want to like this show, but everyone on Discovery is either an idiot or an asshole or both.  The crew interactions seem to be aiming for some kind of Whedonesque witty banter, but they all just come across like dicks.  And who in the writers room did Rekha Sharma piss off?  That kind of stupid and meaningless death is usually reserved for the bimbo or black guy in a crappy horror movie.  And this Klingon romance ... ugh ...

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19 hours ago, CanadaPhil said:

Oh...

Kitty Kat is a Guild Navigator and it needs its Spice.

That was the first thing that came to my mind as I was watching it. 

Next episode will herald the arrival of the worm's. 

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Well, they killed yet another named female character. That's progressive... I guess that's why in Kirk's times women are delegated to wo-manning the radio - that way they can't go and get themselves killed stupidly...

I don't think I be much interested in a tv show that keeps doing that to it's female characters. It's like they thought "oh, we have a strong female-human-vulcan unyielding main character, yet another strong female would be too much". 

It's 4 episodes in and I'm still not taken with any of the crew, Michael included. The plot is very predictable - I guessed the 'Ripper' purpose from the moment Mike said it's not carnivorous... Boring. It's like they want to be so dark and brooding and ask questions what is morally applicable and whatnot, but it's war. People are dying. If there's a technology that makes it possible to jump behind enemy lines, it's no use to cry over a creature.

Myself, I can cry over how terribly out of place the Klingon makeup is and how that plot makes me want to fast forward. 

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I was running a pep talk in my head during the Klingon scenes: "C'mon, give them a chance. It's good to see what the enemy is up to during wartime. It can be interesting! The set design and atmosphere are great! Really! Pay attention!"

I don't think this is part of my overall boredom with the Klingon storyline, but it does make me a little uncomfortable that the supposed savior/torchbearer of a dark-skinned people is the albino white guy.

I really like seeing more of the below deck aspects of the Discovery and am rooting for Michael. I'm hoping the writers recognized fairly quickly that the Klingon scenes weren't working the way they should and made some course corrections. I console myself that the Ferengi were originally the big bad on TNG.

We are probably stuck with the Klingon language, though. The actors can barely move their faces and are forced to emote mostly via slow, hissed vocal inflections.

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I'm going to hope that Admiral Cornwell is going to join Admiral Ross as the second person on the "Admirals who aren't incompetent or evil" list.  I really like the actress.

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2 minutes ago, starri said:

I'm going to hope that Admiral Cornwell is going to join Admiral Ross as the second person on the "Admirals who aren't incompetent or evil" list. 

It's a short list!

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I don't dislike the Klingons, far from it...it's just the delivery absolutely slows the pace to a CRAWL. Let's do a nice switchover like Hunt for Red October, where it transitions from Russian to English. Easy, elegant, keeps the audience engaged and nobody is going to be so upset it's not continued in subtitles (and I am a subtitles fan, half the time with trickier accents I turn on subtitles to make sure I get what they are saying.)

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7 hours ago, Charlesman said:

I may have missed some dialog... Was it explained why the strategic resource that provides the crucial fuel that powers Starfleet was left unguarded, with no ships close by at all? 

And most of the sector fleet was already destroyed and not replaced yet...

 

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19 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

I don't dislike the Klingons, far from it...it's just the delivery absolutely slows the pace to a CRAWL. Let's do a nice switchover like Hunt for Red October, where it transitions from Russian to English. Easy, elegant, keeps the audience engaged and nobody is going to be so upset it's not continued in subtitles (and I am a subtitles fan, half the time with trickier accents I turn on subtitles to make sure I get what they are saying.)

God, yes, please. Watching these long-ass scenes in Klingon is painful.

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47 minutes ago, Ariah said:

Well, they killed yet another named female character. That's progressive... I guess that's why in Kirk's times women are delegated to wo-manning the radio - that way they can't go and get themselves killed stupidly...

So many other things have turned out wrong with this show that I can't get too worked up about that because maybe, other than the nice paycheck, there's not too much reason for those actresses to want to stay on this piece of refuse.

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22 hours ago, CanadaPhil said:

Oh...

Kitty Kat is a Guild Navigator and it needs its Spice.

Right? The Improbability Drive-slash-Jump Engine is powered by melang --um, 'shrooms. I mean, spores!

1 hour ago, Colorado David said:

Let's do a nice switchover like Hunt for Red October, where it transitions from Russian to English. Easy, elegant, keeps the audience engaged and nobody is going to be so upset it's not continued in subtitles (and I am a subtitles fan, half the time with trickier accents I turn on subtitles to make sure I get what they are saying.)

Would this put the fanboys out of joint? I can a imagine subset of Trekkers who might complain if they don't hear enough gutturals and fricatives to assuage their Klingon-jones...

Edited by Sandman
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On 10/8/2017 at 10:57 PM, HavartiHead42 said:

That's very polite of you. The show grinds to a halt every time they're on-screen. Why do they speak their native language so slooooowly?

Thank you! I was going to post the exact same thing. Everything stops when those effing so-called Klingons come on the screen. They could bore the universe into submission.

I still don’t like Michael. She comes off as humorless and self-righteous. Lorca, on the other hand, rocks. Jason Isaacs is the man!

I felt sorry for the alien rhino thing. They better not kill it.

How tall is Doug Jones anyway?

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