S35.E04: I Don't Like Having Snakes Around

[mythoughtis]

If Cole had actually told everyone, he’d have been ok. He left out Mike and that’s what caused the problem. 

Lauren held her own in both  challenges. She was really good with the ropes and had a lot of physical strength too., much better tribe for her.

[Michichick]

1 hour ago, ElleryAnne said:

I'm not sure why Alan and Ashley didn't split their vote between Joe and Desi if they thought Joe had an idol, but if they had, Desi might be gone now.  I like her, so I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

I don't understand how splitting the vote would have helped. Then there would have been one vote against Desi, one vote against Joe (negated by idol), and two against Alan. Alan still goes home. What am I missing?

5 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

If Cole had actually told everyone, he’d have been ok. He left out Mike and that’s what caused the problem. 

I thought Jessica already told Mike about her advantage, after she told Cole? So there was nothing for Cole to tell to Mike.

[RedheadZombie]

7 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

If Cole had actually told everyone, he’d have been ok. He left out Mike and that’s what caused the problem. 

Lauren held her own in both  challenges. She was really good with the ropes and had a lot of physical strength too., much better tribe for her.

Mike already knew about advantage.  And Mike almost got framed for being the big mouth liar.  The way Jessica was barking orders to Mike and giving him a death glare after her finger was hurt, if Cole hadn't tattled on himself, I feel confident Mike would've taken the blame.

I don't care much for Lauren, but I was glad to see that she was able to participate and help win with her tribe.  I'm not convinced yet the tribe is better for her yet.  Everyone is happy when they're eating.  And when they weren't eating, she was outing Cole's secret.  She went from having a possible alliance with Cole, to a probable no.  If she thinks Jessica would take her side over lover boy's, I'm not so sure.  But it remains to be seen.  Jessica would be wise to cut Cole's dead weight at some point.  He's dangerous in that he can't keep his mouth shut, and that he wasn't happy in his three person alliance of five.  He was not at all at risk, and unnecessarily stirred the pot.  He's just untrustworthy.  And if Cole/Jessica continue to fish together, Lauren is going to be pissed.  She was right on top of that and pointing it out to the other two left out.  

[RedheadZombie]

34 minutes ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

I did have to laugh at Chrissy being all, "aw, it's sweet that he felt we had a connection" then I assumed Ryan's logic was "give the idol to the older woman that was dry-heaving after losing the first challenge."

I sort of remember Ryan saying he was going to use his advantage to form a connection with a player outside his tribe.  That made me think he thought she would be strong enough to stay awhile.  Maybe he saw enough of her on the boat to see she was shrewd, and maybe smart?  I did like that they seem a non-typical alliance, and it's reminding me (a little) of Cochran and Dawn.  The difference is that Chrissy seems more stable emotionally than Dawn.

[SuburbanHangSuite]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Still barely caring. Maybe I'm that used to returning players,where I can't bother to keep track of the current cast with their advantages and alliances. All I know is Joe = Tony; hence, Joeny.Just a big, bulky spazz.

I'm with you.  I can't remember the last time we were this far in and I was still learning names.

I thought the New Red Team would be the "weakest" by just eyeballing the shuffle and they're beasting right now.  Good for them.  But whatever their new tribal name is sounds like "yellow."  I was constantly confused by Jeff calling "Yellow" in the lead when it was clearly Red.  Whatever.

Joe?  Is a dick.

[mythoughtis]

It wasn’t Coles secret, it was Jessica’s and Cole blabbed.  Lauren knows she has no alliance with Cole. She and Ben were trying to form an alliance with Mike to separate the power couple.  That’s Mikes only play too - he’s got no real in with the power couple.  I missed where Jessica told Mike. He did a great job of not letting Lauren and Ben know he already knew. 

[Wandering Snark]

4 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

But whatever their new tribal name is sounds like "yellow."  I was constantly confused by Jeff calling "Yellow" in the lead when it was clearly Red.  Whatever.

Yeah this was truly bad planning, combined with Jeff's accent their is a 'Yawa' Tribe (who wear red buffs) as well as a team that wears yellow buffs. So they've massively confused us all...

[ByaNose]

I noticed that Cole was really beat in the face and JP was fresh as a daisy. I think the hunger is hitting the two beefy guys differently. Also,  Cole is getting the dumb edit, well,,,,,,because he’s dumb and JP is nowhere to be found. I’m still indifferent to this season. Even with the tribe swap. It’s not bad horrible like Gabon or Fiji but it’s not fun like Millennials vs GenX. Maybe, it’s just me?! I’m not going anywhere but I’m not WOWED by it either. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by ByaNose

[303420]

39 minutes ago, simplyme said:

I don't know that Jessica was crying over Cole, exactly, though with the way she's been edited of course that's the conclusion folks will jump to. I think she had an emotional moment when she realized she trusted someone (her closest supposed ally) and got burned. Some of us get a bit snivelly when we feel backstabbed. >.>

I agree with you, @simplyme. I saw them as tears as frustration, myself; part "this dude I like is a moron" and part "this dude that I'm in an alliance with is a moron and he might've just wrecked my game." I'm a crier, and I always have to throw in for my peeps who get raked for it.

[TVFan1]

Jeez, Cole can't keep a secret, can he? I don't think he is good for Jessica's game, and she should vote him off sooner rather than later.

I'm glad that Lauren is still in the game and hopefully in a better tribe now that she is with new people. Glad to see that she and her new tribe won immunity and didn't have to go to tribal council.

I hope Joe goes very soon. I'll give him that he was strategic tonight, but now he has no idol, and if the Levu tribe loses again, maybe Desi will partner up with Devon and Ashley and vote him out.

[LanceM]

I have to hand it the editors this season. That makes two weeks in a row where they surprised me on who was getting voted.  I am glad Desi was spared but I am a little sad to see Alan go as he was one of my favorites this season.  

[Brookside]

3 hours ago, BryroseA said:

Episode 4: In which we confirm that Cole is a fucking moron. 

Still don't know whether he's from the hookers, he men, or hustlers tribe (mix and match as you will) , but there are lots of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches short of a picnic there.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Brookside

[Giesela]

2 hours ago, 303420 said:

 

 

I don't pay super-close attention to the instructions, but I assumed that Jessica giving the "advantage" to Devon meant that he would be able to exercise it as Jessica would, that is, cancel the vote of someone on his tribe. I like that structure better - giving an advantage to someone on another tribe is one thing; crippling someone on another tribe rubs me the wrong way. 

.  

I was so confused.  Jessica said that she had the power to block someone elses vote.  
So.........did Devon block his own vote without letting his tribe know?  If you can block anyone's vote you can block your own right?  So, if he didn't want to vote he could just say, the advantage says I can't vote.  But would Probst bust his strategy?  Because honestly I don't think swing voters usually fair very well.  

Edited:  I had to google!  Jessica was able to use the advantage to block someone at a different tribal and she was the one that picked Devon and she blocked him  Ah.  So... if they both make the merge I assume that wont be a friendly arrangement. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Giesela

[Star Aristille]

20 hours ago, NeverLate said:

I like a couple of people on each tribe, and none of them are named Joe! What an @ss! Throws Desi under the bus, and pretends he might use the idol on her, knowing full well he wouldn't.

Actually, he was going to.  But as he explained to Desi (and to Ashley herself), he read Ashley's expression and knew that he was the target.  Desi didn't seem too upset when he gave that explanation, either, so I think things will be okay between them.

It's ironic that when Ashley finally doesn't want Alan voted out, he finally is voted out.  I'll admit that he wasn't so crazy or paranoid this time, but that's because he thought he and Ashley had Devon.  Once that was gone with Devon's penalty, I could see hints that the crazy was waiting to explode again.  Kudos to him for fighting it back, though, and being gracious in defeat.  He had decent final words, too.

As has been said, Cole . . . is just not a good player.  As Mike said, he blabs about a lot of things he shouldn't, which could burn trust with others sooner than gain it.  Jessica told him about her advantage in confidence, and thinking that telling secrets apparently gains him trust and allies, he blabs it to Ben and then to Lauren.  And now Jessica's wondering whether or not she can trust him at all.  Bad form, Cole.  Very bad form.

I'll admit that while the scene with Chrissy and Ryan was nice . . . I'm sorry, but I don't see what everyone sees in Ryan.  Don't like him at all.  There's something smarmy and disingenuous about him.  If not one of those, then superior-feeling.

Poor Ashley.  That had to be a double whammy, what with first finding out Devon got penalized, not advantaged, and then seeing Joe play the hidden Immunity Idol.  Maybe even a triple whammy with Alan going home.  I hope she can recover, but it looks like the best way she can do that is by sticking with Devon and trying to flip Desi.

I happen to like Ali and Lauren, so I'm happy they were safe this week.  Also happy to see Roark and Jessica safe.

I think the Ben/Chrissy and Cole/Jessica alliances might stick together for the long-term, since they were the only ones talked about in this episode.  Wouldn't be surprised if J.P. and Ashley and Ryan and Devon don't reunite since they weren't talked about after their split the way Ben and Chrissy were talked about.

All the same, much better episode than the first three.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Star Aristille

[Star Aristille]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

I missed where Jessica told Mike. He did a great job of not letting Lauren and Ben know he already knew. 

She told Mike at the same time she told Cole.  He was standing right there in front of her when she was talking about it.

[green]

2 hours ago, ripple596 said:

I can't believe Devon wouldn't open the advantage before tribal to check it out & then throw it away once he found out it was against him. And if it really was an advantage, just seal it back up.

If Devon opened it he probably would have been asked to leave teh game immediately since it said "Do NOT open this until Tribal Council".

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

If Cole had actually told everyone, he’d have been ok. He left out Mike and that’s what caused the problem. 

Lauren held her own in both  challenges. She was really good with the ropes and had a lot of physical strength too., much better tribe for her.

 

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

It wasn’t Coles secret, it was Jessica’s and Cole blabbed.  Lauren knows she has no alliance with Cole. She and Ben were trying to form an alliance with Mike to separate the power couple.  That’s Mikes only play too - he’s got no real in with the power couple.  I missed where Jessica told Mike. He did a great job of not letting Lauren and Ben know he already knew. 

I don't get the above two posts.  Jessica took her original tribemates -- Cole and Mike -- aside and told them together about the "advantage" that came with her bag of chips.  She did that because these three were from the same original tribe so she wanted her tribal alliance all in on the info.  Then Cole decided to tell their two "opponents" the info for reasons that defy rationality.

The disadvantage plus the idol just made a mockery of the tribal council.  An occasional blindside set up by players playing the game can be fun but artificial gimmicks thrown in wily-nily makes the whole thing just a lottery ticket ruling out any strategy.  Hate that.

Joe has had the major villain edit from the get go so my guess -- I am totally unspoiled -- is that he will be around for a long long time to come.  Ryan is the narrator this season so far and has no one close to his level at confessionals.

The "better" edits (as in likeable or strategic or nice or sneaky in a good way etc etc) so far seem to be going to Ryan, Chrissy, the person whose name I forget (the younger woman on the old Ryan/Devon/Lauren tribe that knew Patrick pre-game), Devon, Lauren and Ben with Jessica as the lost little lamb thanks to Cole's stupidity.  Mike seems to have faded from the screen a lot without Joe around targeting him.  Meanwhile who the hell is Roark and where did Desai come from?

I always like the narrator and like the nerds so Ryan is my horse. 

Also like his pal, Devon, and Lauren.  Chrissy has won me over after a shaky start.  I'll miss Alan because I liked him too.  Whatshername (Ryan/Devon/Lauren former tribal affiliation young woman) is a good player but I'm still neutral on her. 

Not much into the token good ol' boy so Ben leaves me kind of cold.  Don't dislike him but I'm not rooting for him either.  And I just discovered there are people named Desai and Roark so have no idea about them yet except to say I pity Desai getting stuck with Joe as her only ally on that new tribe.  The old heroes "power couple" I'm not into either.  Is she Alli or is that someone else?  The other part of that power couple is still out living as a "survivor" instead of playing the game "Survivor".  Mike has drifted away from focus this episode and I wasn't much into him anyway.  And Cole makes a bag of rocks seem smart.

Saw above after I posted Alli is from the Ryan/Devon/Lauren tribe and Ashley is the one that was with Alan this episode.  They need to cast people whose first names don't start with the same letter because it is enough trying to keep people straight wearing red buffs on a tribe called something that sounds close to "Yellow."

Edited October 19, 2017 by green

[NeverLate]

19 minutes ago, Giesela said:

I was so confused.  Jessica said that she had the power to block someone elses vote.  
So.........did Devon block his own vote without letting his tribe know?  If you can block anyone's vote you can block your own right?  So, if he didn't want to vote he could just say, the advantage says I can't vote.  But would Probst bust his strategy?  Because honestly I don't think swing voters usually fair very well.  

He did read it out. So,  Jessica blocked him from voting..had her tribe lost, she would of blocked one of her tribe.

I liked Tony, he wasn't as boorish as Joe.

[Blissfool]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I wonder if Desi is the only non-white contestant left.

 

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Isn't Joe Hispanic?

I'm Hispanic. It's my ethnicity.  My race is white. ☺

[NeverLate]

Quote

Joe has had the major villain edit from the get go so my guess -- I am totally unspoiled -- is that he will be around for a long long time to come. 

I was hoping, Desi jumped over to Ashley and Devon, and voted Joe out. I'm never right though

Edited October 19, 2017 by NeverLate

[Star Aristille]

37 minutes ago, green said:

I always like the narrator and like the nerds so Ryan is my horse. 

Also like his pal, Devon, and Lauren.  Chrissy has won me over after a shaky start.  I'll miss Alan because I liked him too.  Whatshername (Ryan/Devon/Lauren former tribal affiliation young woman) is a good player but I'm still neutral on her. 

Not much into the token good ol' boy so Ben leaves me kind of cold.  Don't dislike him but I'm not rooting for him either.  And I just discovered there are people named Desai and Roark so have no idea about them yet except to say I pity Desai getting stuck with Joe as her only ally on that new tribe.  The old heroes "power couple" I'm not into either.  Is she Alli or is that someone else?  The other part of that power couple is still out living as a "survivor" instead of playing the game "Survivor".  Mike has drifted away from focus this episode and I wasn't much into him anyway.  And Cole makes a bag of rocks seem smart.

Saw above after I posted Alli is from the Ryan/Devon/Lauren tribe and Ashley is the one that was with Alan this episode.  They need to cast people whose first names don't start with the same letter because it is enough trying to keep people straight wearing red buffs on a tribe called something that sounds close to "Yellow."

Sorry, but the narrators rarely win, so I highly doubt that Ryan will.

Also, the other young woman on Ryan, Devon, and Lauren's old tribe is Ali.  One "l."

There is no "Desai."  It's Desi.  No "a."

The Heroes "power couple" is J.P. (who was pretty much silent this week) and Ashley.

[GaT]

“That is not an advantage” LOL, I'm still laughing over that.

Glad Alan is gone, please feel free to vote Joe out next week.

[piequinn35]

Aw I got confused of that vote-block adv. If Jessica wanted to protect Healers she would have given it to Joe or Desi for them to use it, but Jess was the one who really used it, poor Devon, even if there was no disadvantage, Alan would still have been voted out because of Joe's idol. Joe should be the next one to go. And Cole is indeed a moron. 

[Fiftyninth]

I never liked Tony, and I like Joe even less.

[KimberStormer]

Although I must agree that the vote-nullifier was a bit too much of an RNG in the pristine purity of the game of Survivor (ahem), I thought this was a great episode.  I really appreciated seeing everybody playing.  A kids sports game can be as exciting as the Olympics, if they're all fairly evenly matched.  These guys are all sort of bumbling but they're trying!  They're doing their best!

The swap worked out really well, I think.  Much more interesting dynamics on the tribes so far.  I love odd couples thrown together by fate who must make it work, and that applies to both Desi/Joe and Ashley/Alan.  And I thought they all made a very entertaining game-playing mess of it on their hapless blue tribe.  Ashley was great -- she knew she had to work with Alan, she saw that he was terrified and understood that need as well and quickly established that, then she played really good social game on Devon.  As for Devon, he was smart to go with the former Heroes, when he found that social connection.  That keeps him alive for at least two more votes, and probably Ashley would stick with him instead of with Alan, so it was perfect for him in this current tribe.

Now I was extremely anti-Joe in the beginning but Joe has become hilarious because he's so extremely bad at everything he does.  I have no fear of him winning -- he's not getting a villain edit, he's getting a doofus edit, ever since he was completely flummoxed by the very clear idol clue.  (Making Cole look smart -- that's how dumb Joe is!)  His instincts are fine, but his execution is outrageously bad.  Telling Devon the Heroes proposed voting him out was a good idea...but he did it in a completely foolish way.  Trying to draw the aggro in order to use his idol was a decent idea (just like with Randy in Gabon, I must admit I'm confused why people think someone is an intolerable asshole when they say "I'm going to be an asshole as strategy" and then do so) that he mismanaged spectacularly so as to put as much of a target on Desi as on him and completely alienate Devon and Ashley forever, which he only doubled down on in tribal even AFTER the votes were read!  Enjoy your success while it lasts, genius.

Still got my eye on Roark.  She's still never been to tribal, so we'll see.

5 hours ago, ElleryAnne said:

I'm not sure why Alan and Ashley didn't split their vote between Joe and Desi if they thought Joe had an idol, but if they had, Desi might be gone now.  I like her, so I'm glad it worked out the way it did.

Split votes only work when you have enough of a numbers advantage that the small half of your split vote can equal all the votes of the other side.  In other words, if it was 4-2, they could split the votes, but as it was 3-2 they could not.  And especially could not when it was 2-2. 

5 hours ago, vb68 said:

The scene between Chrissy and Ryan was actually sweet. It's rare we see genuine bonding. (I know it was  strategy, but still.)

That couldn't have been less genuine if it were enacted by a Twitter spambot.  Ryan has no soul, he's a Survivor Nerd.  He's a vacuous horror show in the shape of a human being.  If Chrissy meant any of the nonsense she was spouting about feeling the love through the mail, she rather deserves the painful awakening.  Though all I want is Ryan out of the show so the humans can play instead of Deep Blue.

3 hours ago, North of Eden said:

 Is she really that into him after 9 days that's she's crying over his actions? They haven't even kissed have they?

She's crying because she's realizing she put her Survivor eggs in a very leaky basket indeed.  They've been there almost 2 weeks (if my math is right) and she's stuck with an idiot for her only close alliance.  Dr. Mike is the one person we didn't see Cole telling about Joe's idol, which suggests that Dr. Mike was not in with Jessica either.  So the only tie she has with him is original tribal lines, which is a weak force indeed.  Trying to go Healer Strong is the right move for her, so telling them both about the advantage makes sense (they can all three try to figure out what's the best way to protect Healers with that advantage) but going forward she has few options, mostly bad ones.  She can't trust Cole.  She's not close with Dr. Mike.  Presumably she knows Joe is a sleazeball and he didn't tell her about the idol so she knows he doesn't have any loyalty towards her.  Hopefully she has some ties with Desi and Roark but it's clear she spent the most time with Cole and was planning to power-couple to the end.  And that plan has collapsed because Cole's a moron.

3 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

It wasn’t Coles secret, it was Jessica’s and Cole blabbed.  Lauren knows she has no alliance with Cole. She and Ben were trying to form an alliance with Mike to separate the power couple.  That’s Mikes only play too - he’s got no real in with the power couple.  I missed where Jessica told Mike. He did a great job of not letting Lauren and Ben know he already knew. 

Personally I thought Dr. Mike is a terrible liar and did a bad job hiding it, but I don't like him so maybe it's my spite.  "If you're playing me I'll fucking kill you", Dr. Mike?  Leave that kind of talk to the professionals like Abi who can sell it.  You're just an asshole.

On the other hand I thought Lauren played really well.  She worked the power-couple angle and the "btw they blabbed about the advantage" bomb quite well.  I was not super impressed with her last week the way some were but I thought she did great this time.  Ben, as usual, playing it slow and social, very good very good.

Sad to see Alan go.  There goes my handsome fellow for the season.  Good final words.

Edited October 19, 2017 by KimberStormer

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, dizzyd said:

II'm pleased that the Joe Alan tribe lost, didn't care which order those 2 leave.

Same here - Joe or Alan, didn't care which.

 

1 hour ago, Giesela said:

Jessica was able to use the advantage to block someone at a different tribal and she was the one that picked Devon and she blocked him  Ah.  So... if they both make the merge I assume that wont be a friendly arrangement. 

I wonder if Jessica truly understood the effect of the transfer - specifically, that the recipient would be blocked as opposed to having the power to block.  I know my immediate (incorrect) take was, the recipient would have the same blocking power as Jessica - so it wouldn't surprise me too much if Jessica thought the same.

In any case, Devon was understandably freaked out at TC. After Devon has had time to consider the situation in hindsight, however, it's possible he'll realize the vote block could actually be considered an (accidental?) advantage.  Devon was spared from having to pick a side in the battle between two warring pairs - which also means he was spared the consequences of picking wrong.

[loki567]

"This is kind of like a movie where they want to get the bad guy by getting his wife." Shut the fuck up, Probst. 

I got a bad feeling how all these twists are going to turn out. I've seen enough twist-crazy reality shows where the twists are relatively harmless until they completely destroy the fabric of a season. I mean we had a tribe flip with three different tribes with five people each. Obviously there's going to be a scramble to get the majority vote. Why not let that play out? 

I'm digging Ashley and I actually enjoy Alan's craziness so not the TC for me. 

[green]

22 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

Sorry, but the narrators rarely win, so I highly doubt that Ryan will.

Also, the other young woman on Ryan, Devon, and Lauren's old tribe is Ali.  One "l."

There is no "Desai."  It's Desi.  No "a."

The Heroes "power couple" is J.P. (who was pretty much silent this week) and Ashley.

Thanks.  I'll completely forget this by next week of course since I can't even remember who the final three were last season.

22 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

Aw I got confused of that vote-block adv. If Jessica wanted to protect Healers she would have given it to Joe or Desi for them to use it, but Jess was the one who really used it, poor Devon, even if there was no disadvantage, Alan would still have been voted out because of Joe's idol. Joe should be the next one to go. And Cole is indeed a moron. 

If Jessica wanted to protect the Healers -- which she did -- the last two people she would give it to would be Desi and Joe.  Whoever she blackballed with that vote blocker couldn't vote on that tribe so she would never give it to her fellow original tribe mates.  Granted a smarter move for her would have been to give it to one of the two Heroes instead but she got the result she wanted with the help of Joe's idol play.  Together they saved all the Healers none of which have been knocked out of the game yet. 

Which will probably hurt them in the short term because they are a real monolith now with the Heroes and Hustlers not having ins right now so they will tend to band together against them.  Until the Healers cracks appear of course.

21 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

That couldn't have been less genuine if it were enacted by a Twitter spambot.  Ryan has no soul, he's a Survivor Nerd.  ...

 

She's crying because she's realizing she put her Survivor eggs in a very leaky basket indeed.  They've been there almost 2 weeks (if my math is right) and she's stuck with an idiot for her only close alliance.  Dr. Mike is the one person we didn't see Cole telling about Joe's idol, which suggests that Dr. Mike was not in with Jessica either. ...

 

Nay.  Ryan has a good since of humor which is a sure sign of a soul.  Also he just has a nice vibe to him.  Hope him and Devon go far in the game.

Again, like mentioned in several posts above, Jessica told BOTH Cole and Mike about her little "potato chip" advantage at the same time.  She gathered both of them together with her to share that info.

There have been a lot of people that somehow seemed to miss Dr Mike standing right there in plain site when Jessica was doing her show and tell with that vote blocker thing.  Add that to the seemingly endless confusion I see here about the vote blocker's use in lots of posts above and it seems Survivor didn't edit all that clearly enough for people to follow.  Especially since 99.9% of people watching the show don't go online to read about it afterwards so a lot of confused casual viewers out there in America and Canada right now.

Edited October 20, 2017 by green

[KimberStormer]

No, I saw Dr. Mike learning about the vote blocker advantage!  What I mean is, pre-swap, Cole went around telling everyone about Joe's idol -- everyone but Dr. Mike.  As we've seen with Alan and Ashley, pre-swap and post-swap alliance lines can be very different -- but just as Ashley would have gone back to wanting Alan out as soon as the merge came, I expect Jessica and Dr. Mike don't have a very tight bond.  After all, when he came to her to discuss Lauren knowing about the advantage, he came with an ugly threat.

They definitely did not explain the advantage very well -- I got it right at first but then I thought I'd misunderstood when it was labeled Advantage for Devon.  Then it turned out it worked the way I thought.  (Devon's moan of despair that it wasn't an advantage after all was pretty great.)  I'm interested in what Jessica's thinking was on that move, why take away what was potentially Desi and Joe's swing vote?

[amazingracefan]

1 hour ago, loki567 said:

"This is kind of like a movie where they want to get the bad guy by getting his wife." Shut the fuck up, Probst. 

I got a bad feeling how all these twists are going to turn out. I've seen enough twist-crazy reality shows where the twists are relatively harmless until they completely destroy the fabric of a season. I mean we had a tribe flip with three different tribes with five people each. Obviously there's going to be a scramble to get the majority vote. Why not let that play out? 

I'm digging Ashley and I actually enjoy Alan's craziness so not the TC for me. 

I'm slightly worried about the twists too.  So far it's not turned out too bad arguably (other factors have affected what happened), but having someone from outside a tribe influence it in a huge way could backfire and destroy the drama at some point.  Hopefully the last of them for that reason. 

[amazingracefan]

5 hours ago, green said:

 it is enough trying to keep people straight wearing red buffs on a tribe called something that sounds close to "Yellow."

I never really remember the tribe names, it's easier just to remember the colour.

[himela]

Very interesting way that the swap happened. In fact the swap was really symmetrical and that makes me wonder whether there was a way production may have used to interfere with that. I mean, there were 6 healers and we could have seen a tribe with 4 of them but this didn't happen.

Joe is not that bad of a person after all. He acted kind of alone by telling Devon that the heroes wanted him out AND by trying to take the target away from Desi but in the end he managed to figure out he was the one voted out and at the same time voting out Alan who surely was the biggest threat from the heroes tribe. I feel that Desi did much of the work too but she didn't seem to get credit.

Cole telling the two strangers, Ben and Lauren, that Jessica has an advantage that could be used against these two? Yeah I think we have a player who can beat Eric's move of giving the idol to Parvati's team if he tries hard enough! The person who cast him should get a raise! :P

Chrissy thinking that Ryan is the kind of person who just gave her the advantage because he felt he loved her must be another illusion that will remain in Survivor history. Ryan doesn't want to play with his mother, Ryan would SELL his mother to the devil to win this game! (metaphorically speaking!).

I want to see Jessica voting Cole out. Now.

Bye Alan. You were not meant to be in this game. Alan for me was like Devin from BB16. Their game was great until they ruined it themselves big time.

[MissEwa]

17 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

I'm interested in what Jessica's thinking was on that move, why take away what was potentially Desi and Joe's swing vote?

I can only think that she wanted to keep the healers safe but she was also hoping Joe would play his idol. She's thinking - having met Joe, and having *not* met Alan - that Devin will probably be swinging to Ashley and Alan, so it's 2-3 and she makes it 2-2, Joe plays his idol and is safe but idol-less. And if Devin is working with Joe and Desi, that the healers are safe but Joe won't play his idol, so neutralise Devin, make it 2-2 and, again, Joe stays but the idol goes. 

But that's both risky (they could have played it wrong) and the kind of convoluted I don't think Jessica does (which is not a dig - if that is her reason I think it's a bit of an overthink and simply taking the vote from Ashley or Alan would have been much safer).  So, I don't know.

Cole is a dumbass. Joe is an obnoxious version of Tony - and I thought Tony was plenty obnoxious. I get that he was deliberately abrasive to pull the target onto himself, and I don't blame him for fistbumping but everything else... ugh no. 

[amazingracefan]

7 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

No way he's a healer.  No disrespect to parole/probation officers, but I would place them in with the hustlers.  They aren't really working to heal anybody.  They are wading through the lies, BS, and excuses of their clients, which probably makes them cynical, suspicious people - like Joe.

It helps to be suspicious on Survivor, it's all about the game.  I know it's set up to have Joe as the anti-hero, him being called a snake and that being in the title of the episode, but in the end they are all playing for themselves.  Looks like he's going to be one that people love to hate, but you need people who stir things up.  How good a gameplayer he is is very much open to question, but he at least guessed right here.  I'd be surprised if he got to the end like Tony (great winner for  me) and Russell (a popular player though shown as an anti-hero).

[plurie]

47 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I can only think that she wanted to keep the healers safe but she was also hoping Joe would play his idol. She's thinking - having met Joe, and having *not* met Alan - that Devin will probably be swinging to Ashley and Alan, so it's 2-3 and she makes it 2-2, Joe plays his idol and is safe but idol-less. And if Devin is working with Joe and Desi, that the healers are safe but Joe won't play his idol, so neutralise Devin, make it 2-2 and, again, Joe stays but the idol goes. 

But that's both risky (they could have played it wrong) and the kind of convoluted I don't think Jessica does (which is not a dig - if that is her reason I think it's a bit of an overthink and simply taking the vote from Ashley or Alan would have been much safer).  So, I don't know.

Cole is a dumbass. Joe is an obnoxious version of Tony - and I thought Tony was plenty obnoxious. I get that he was deliberately abrasive to pull the target onto himself, and I don't blame him for fistbumping but everything else... ugh no. 

I think it was a smart move. If she takes the vote from the swing voter, she flushes the idol (from someone she isn't really allied with) while keeping her former tribe with the numbers. If they guessed wrong, Desi would be gone, but so would the idol, and the former healers still have as many players as the other tribes (and if the heroes had targeted Joe, Joe would be gone, which would be fine with her).

 

She really did Devin a favor; now he could claim that he would have voted with either side and there's no way to prove otherwise.

[Haleth]

8 hours ago, blackwing said:

I feel bad for JP, he is the only muscle on his team.

There's a JP?

7 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

He left out Mike and that’s what caused the problem. 

There's a Mike?  Oh, wait, he's the doctor, right?

I like that TPTB switch things up to keep the players from getting too comfortable, but it makes it hard on viewers to learn who everyone is.  At least I finally figured out who Roark and Desi are.  (Roark, ugh, her parents were Ayn Rand fans?)

Funny twist that sometimes an advantage... isn't.  Will people start avoiding them on the chance that it's a whammy?  I really don't think Jessica understood that the bearer of the "advantage" was blocked.  I think she messed up by giving it to Devon, even though it worked out for her former teammates anyway.  Did it read that if her team had won she had to give it to someone on her team or was she supposed to keep it for herself?  It was her good luck that she could pass it off to another team and not have to deal with the fallout in house.

I have a dilemma.  Can't stand Joe and hope he gets booted soon, but he looks a lot like my son in law.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, vb68 said:

The scene between Chrissy and Ryan was actually sweet. It's rare we see genuine bonding. (I know it was  strategy, but still.)

I thought it was funny how Ryan managed to keep a straight face when he lied about why he sent Chrissy the idol.  It was because he wanted to hurt your tribe and thought you were the weakest memeber, idiot.

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, mojoween said:

Joe is the literal WORST.  And I mean that quite literally.  Ass.

Man that was heartbreaking watching how sad Devon got.  Don’t do that again, show.

”I’m Joe!  I can read people’s faces!  I’m so goddamned brilliant I am going to tell you that over and over!  I am SO. DAMN. SMART.”

I didn't mind the result, because I wanted Desi to stay in the game.  But, Joe really is an ass.  Deliberately drawing the votes to himself was smart, but gloating about how he read Ashley's face was idiotic.  Now he has no idol and Ashley and Cole are totally against him.  I don't think it would be too difficult for them to get Desi to join them, to vote out Joe, unless she is loyal to a fault.

[ByaNose]

10 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

Jeez, Cole can't keep a secret, can he? I don't think he is good for Jessica's game, and she should vote him off sooner rather than later.

I'm glad that Lauren is still in the game and hopefully in a better tribe now that she is with new people. Glad to see that she and her new tribe won immunity and didn't have to go to tribal council.

I hope Joe goes very soon. I'll give him that he was strategic tonight, but now he has no idol, and if the Levu tribe loses again, maybe Desi will partner up with Devon and Ashley and vote him out.

Last night, I read on his twitter that he had never watched the show before and didn't know not to (blab) tell other people. Oddly enough, I checked again this morning for the actual quote and it's gone. I'm not sure if CBS, one of his castmates or himself alone suggested he delete it. He seems like a really nice guy who can't lie, too. That's not a good combo for Survivor. LOL!!!

Edited October 19, 2017 by ByaNose

[himela]

Well I am a minority as it seems but I like how Joe is playing and I also like how Russell played! What can I say, I love me some villains!

Edit to add something kinda irrelevant: Tony Vlachos is Greek and it always entertains me the way people pronounce his surname. In Greek 'ch' is pronounced like we say 'hey' or 'horse'. So his surname is pronounced Vlahos. Just saying. :P

Edited October 19, 2017 by himela

[Fake Jan Brady]

Cole couldn’t even stop himself from blabbing his guilt when Jessica paused between sentences. Poor Jessica; shoulda aligned with Dr Mike, who did a helluva job faking his ignorance in front of Ben and Lauren, but alas he does not have the chiselled abs of the built like/dumb as a rock Cole. Can’t say I blame her. 

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, simplyme said:

And if the challenges involved pure strength, that would be a problem. But so far, I think the challenges have actually been a good mix of agility/dexterity, teamwork/communication, mental/puzzling, swimming, and such. The team with the biggest guys on it did the worst at unbraiding, flipping themselves, throwing a hoop with a rope on it accurately, and doing a puzzle. Joe, in fact, sucks at the agility and communication bits. 

Lauren, Ben, and Cole were great at unbraiding their ropes and flipping themselves over/around  the beams, as were Roark, Ryan, and JP. The biggest problem for the smallest people (Roark and Ryan) in that challenge appeared to be managing all the rope and, of course, hauling the heavy sled.

I don't know that Jessica was crying over Cole, exactly, though with the way she's been edited of course that's the conclusion folks will jump to. I think she had an emotional moment when she realized she trusted someone (her closest supposed ally) and got burned. Some of us get a bit snivelly when we feel backstabbed. >.>

I was expecting Ben, Lauren and Cole to do well with the rope unbraiding.  I figured a Marine, a fisherwomanperson, and a wilderness whatever would all know their way around rope.

I think it was more than just being backstabbed that made Jessica cry.  I think she thought she had met the guy she would lose her virginity to and she found out he was a total moron who could not be trusted.  

Edited October 19, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, Michichick said:

I don't understand how splitting the vote would have helped. Then there would have been one vote against Desi, one vote against Joe (negated by idol), and two against Alan. Alan still goes home. What am I missing?

I thought Jessica already told Mike about her advantage, after she told Cole? So there was nothing for Cole to tell to Mike.

Agree about the vote splitting.  Without Cole's vote the best they could hope for was a 2-2 tie, if they correctly guessed who the idol would be played for.  If they had Cole's vote, it still wouldn't make sense to split.  It would have either been a 3-2 win if they guessed right or a 0-2 loss if they guessed right.

I think the idea that you always split votes in case of an idol has become so ingrained in Survivor that tribes discuss it even when it makes no sense at all.

[ghoulina]

I really don't get why people act so shocked by a tribe swap. Their existence, let alone the timing, is not unusual. 

The new tribe makeups are interesting, though. Right off the bat my son claimed that the new blue tribe (I never remember names) would be killing it, because "they have a lot of strong men". Except no. They lost both challenges. So we had a nice talk about how size and strength aren't everything. That tribe was/is clearly not a cohesive unit. 

We didn't get to see too much of the new yellow tribe, but I did like Ryan and Chrissy connecting over the advantage he gave her. Roark probably isn't long for this world if they lose. I didn't even remember her! 

I found myself inexplicably rooting for Red, so I was glad they won Immunity. I think it might be because there are TWO solo players on that tribe and I just didn't want to see the three former Healers plow right over them. Although, given that Cole and his blabbermouth struck again, it may not have gone down how I thought it would. He really is a dumbass. Jessica, don't sidle up to a dude just because he's pretty. 

So back to the new Blue tribe....I knew things wouldn't go well with both Alan AND Joe on the same tribe. Although, Alan stayed relatively calm this episode. Joe was the blustering fool, trying to lie about Devon and then wanting to put votes on front street before Tribal. But, between his Idol and the advantage Jessica had, he came out victorious. I wasn't sad to see Alan go, but I was disappointed that they couldn't find a way to get Joe out of there. I don't want to see this guy for the entire season. 

[ProfCrash]

10 hours ago, simplyme said:

Well, @BryroseA summed up what I had to say about Cole. Dumb.

Jessica, though, managed her secret advantage pretty well. (She didn't misread it. If her tribe lost, she would give it to someone on her tribe when it was time to vote and it would block their vote. If her tribe was immune, she would send it to someone on the losing tribe, thus blocking their vote.) By choosing Devon, she takes the swing vote who is probably against the numbers-heavy healers out of the voting, evening up the votes. Then she hopes that Joe plays his idol and that he was his usual annoying self and they voted for him. That removes a non-healer from the game and gets the idol away from Joe. Win-win.

She's definitely the brains of that twosome. Hope she votes Cole off soon.

I don't really see Desi wanting to keep Joe around either. I can easily see future votes in that tribe being 3-1 against Joe.

I wonder if/when they'll switch to two tribes?

Weirdly, I enjoyed seeing Ashley and Alan work together this ep.

I also didn't expect to like Devon at the beginning of the season, but I do. He has common sense and a low-key sense of humor. Also, his brain appears to function with some level of intelligence and without a high level of asshattery, which puts him miles beyond several of the other men they cast this season.

Jessica played that perfectly. I think she is far smarter then Survivor is trying to show her to be. It annoys me that they are not going to give her credit for being smart in how she played the advantage and are going to focus on the Cole relationship.

9 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Jeez, shut up, Jessica.  You act like a 12 year old school girl with her first crush.

It's confusing to figure out which team is which because their clothes don't match the colors of their buffs any more.

Jessica, never play poker.

Never. Tell. Cole. Anything.

Joe is as crazy as Allen.

Well, at least one of the crazies is gone.

I could never go on Survivor because I am a crier. It is how my body responds to stress and frustration. I try and control it but it is hard for me to do. It is a physical response. Some people cry, deal with it. Jessica flat out told Cole that he was wrong to tell people about Joe's idol and why he was wrong to do so. I suspect that they had that conversation more then once. After that conversation, Cole goes and tells the opposition about Jessica's advantage. Why? Because it will help him and maybe their tribe as a whole.

It is more then possible that Jessica is insanely frustrated that Cole, someone she wants to trust and work with, is a complete and utter idiot who can't keep his mouth shut. I would be shocked if she shares any information with Cole because she knows he is not able to keep his mouth shut.

"She's crying because she's realizing she put her Survivor eggs in a very leaky basket indeed.  They've been there almost 2 weeks (if my math is right) and she's stuck with an idiot for her only close alliance.  Dr. Mike is the one person we didn't see Cole telling about Joe's idol, which suggests that Dr. Mike was not in with Jessica either.  So the only tie she has with him is original tribal lines, which is a weak force indeed.  Trying to go Healer Strong is the right move for her, so telling them both about the advantage makes sense (they can all three try to figure out what's the best way to protect Healers with that advantage) but going forward she has few options, mostly bad ones.  She can't trust Cole.  She's not close with Dr. Mike.  Presumably she knows Joe is a sleazeball and he didn't tell her about the idol so she knows he doesn't have any loyalty towards her.  Hopefully she has some ties with Desi and Roark but it's clear she spent the most time with Cole and was planning to power-couple to the end.  And that plan has collapsed because Cole's a moron."

Sorry for the out of quote box quote but I do not get the full site access at work for some reason and I don't want to quote your entire post. I think you are spot on her. Jessica is smart enough to see what she needs to do to keep her original tribe strong. I understand that some people think that it is not important to stay with your original tribe but there is a large body of evidence that the original tribe tends to work better for winners then bouncing between other relationships. There are folks who managed to win while switching between alliances regularly but it is hard to do. Jessica may not be tight with Mike but she knows that she is in a better place if the six people she worked with originally make it to the merge as a group. She saw the numbers and played her advantage beautifully. The only mistake she made was trusting Cole. I don't think she will make the that mistake again.

I really don't like Joe. I want him gone. He is an arrogant asshole who thinks he knows everything. The way he speaks to people is condescending. I feel sorry for anyone who has to report to him. He put Desi in a tough place for no good reason. He read the room right but his reaction to that was less then graceful. And any time a grown ass man refers to a grown ass woman as baby doll I want to puke. The last time someone called me little girl at work I handed him his ass. Ashley is not a girl, she is a fucking woman. Joe's hyped up, I am superior to all people complex is already old. Thank god his idol is played and I hope to god that there were different clues at each tribe so Joe cannot find another idol all that easily.

Seriously, Joe is a caricature and has no chance in hell of winning. He pisses people off with his aggressive play and comes off as someone who thinks he is better then everyone else.

I hope that the Producers finally show Jessica in a more balanced light. She is far more interesting as an intelligent woman who played her advantage well then a love struck virgin.

[ghoulina]

9 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

It wasn’t Coles secret, it was Jessica’s and Cole blabbed.  Lauren knows she has no alliance with Cole. She and Ben were trying to form an alliance with Mike to separate the power couple.  That’s Mikes only play too - he’s got no real in with the power couple.  I missed where Jessica told Mike. He did a great job of not letting Lauren and Ben know he already knew. 

Right. Cole THOUGHT telling the other two was a good move, because he would garner trust with them. But he didn't really need to, considering he came in with a built-in three person alliance. And I think maintaining the trust of THOSE people would be more beneficial than trying to foster trust with new people. I think he is an idiot. 

Lauren and Ben, OTOH, are totally alone. So it can't hurt to let people know that Cole blabbed and hope it forms crack in their alliance. 

8 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I’m still indifference to this season. Even with the tribe swap. It’s not bad horrible like Gabon or Fiji but it’s not fun like Millennials vs GenX.

OT, but I always laugh when Gabon is brought up as an example of Survivor at its worst. I LOVED Gabon and Bob is one of my favorite winners of all time. I'm such a weirdo. 

 

7 hours ago, GaT said:

That is not an advantage” LOL, I'm still laughing over that.

LOL, right? I had the same thought. It was a bit confusing, the way they handled it. I thought Jessica was GIVING Devon an advantage - and HE could block someone's vote. Which I didn't get, because she said she wanted to help the Healers. But then I realized she was actually blocking HIS vote and I was like, "oh". 

 

2 hours ago, himela said:

Joe is not that bad of a person after all. He acted kind of alone by telling Devon that the heroes wanted him out AND by trying to take the target away from Des

May be just me, but I don't think he was really trying to take the target off of Desi. I don't know why she'd be targeted in the first place. Not only is Joe stronger, but he's also harder to live with. No, I thought he just went off on a tangent and then said that, after the fact, to save face with her.

[himela]

5 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

May be just me, but I don't think he was really trying to take the target off of Desi. I don't know why she'd be targeted in the first place. Not only is Joe stronger, but he's also harder to live with. No, I thought he just went off on a tangent and then said that, after the fact, to save face with her.

Exactly. He is stronger than Desi so the heroes would prefer to vote her out being the weakest of the two and keep him for challenges. That's why he wanted to become a jerk so that they decide to vote him out instead and he gets saved by the idol.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

That couldn't have been less genuine if it were enacted by a Twitter spambot.  Ryan has no soul, he's a Survivor Nerd..  He's a vacuous horror show in the shape of a human being.  If Chrissy meant any of the nonsense she was spouting about feeling the love through the mail, she rather deserves the painful awakening.  Though all I want is Ryan out of the show so the humans can play instead of Deep Blue.

 

I don't like to throw around such accusations, lightly, but you, my friend, are an anti-nerdite...a RABID anti-nerdite. :)

Of course Ryan wasn't being genuine.  But to call him "vacuous" is absurd.  Vacuous means brainless.  A vacuous player (I can think of one whose name rhymes with Cole) would have been genuine with Chrissy and said, "Well, huh, huh, huh...actually I chose you because I wanted to sabotage your tribe and you were clearly the most useless weakling on the island, huh, huh, huh.!"   

Telling the truth in that spot would have been idiotic, and also unnecessarily blunt and cruel to Chrissy.  He played it brilliantly.  It looks like he gained another ally.  

As for him being soulless, a) In many situations that is the way you should be in Survivor b) Both Simone and Patrick spoke very highly of him in their exit interviews.  They said he was very funny and well liked in the tribe.  I think your anti-nerdism has clouded your perception of him.  

[blackwing]

5 hours ago, Nashville said:

I wonder if Jessica truly understood the effect of the transfer - specifically, that the recipient would be blocked as opposed to having the power to block.  I know my immediate (incorrect) take was, the recipient would have the same blocking power as Jessica - so it wouldn't surprise me too much if Jessica thought the same.

I think she fully understood what it was doing.  I haven't gone back and rewatched but I thought the wording was something like "if your tribe does not go to tribal council, you will transfer this to someone on the tribe that goes to tribal council and that person's vote will be blocked". At least that's what I thought she read, because I understood the purpose immediately.  She gets to block a vote of somebody who is going to be voting at tribal council.

She very clearly said she was going to use this to help the Healers.  So if she thought that the transferee was going to be able to use it to block someone's vote, then she would have given it to Desi.  And if this is the way it would have operated, then that person would likely have been able to open it up before TC so they could do some thinking about how to use it, much the same way Chrissy got her transferred advantage and was debating what to do.  Instead, Devin was simply informed at TC that his vote was blocked.  

I think Jessica erred.  If she was trying to protect Healers she had to have known that the two Heroes would and together against them.  I would have blocked Alan's vote.  If Devin votes with the Healers then it's potentially 3-1 against a Hero.  If he votes with Ashley then it's 2-2.  But being blocked, it's likely 2-2 no matter what    At least by blocking Alan there was a chance to get the 3-1.  She must have really counted on Joe using his idol.  

[JudyObscure]

10 hours ago, OutOfTheQuestion said:

I did have to laugh at Chrissy being all, "aw, it's sweet that he felt we had a connection" then I assumed Ryan's logic was "give the idol to the older woman that was dry-heaving after losing the first challenge."

She actually said, "I never felt so loved." Really Chrissy?  It was a game move not a proposal. Get over yourself.

I found myself scared to death Desi was going home, just because I enjoy looking at her beautiful face so much -- and I'm a straight woman.

I'm sorry Jessica was reduced to tears of frustration but I thought the showmance story arc was entertaining..  Last week, young woman in love with a hunk, this week, young woman realizes he's an airhead and gets over him -- all pretty much without him even noticing.  I was hoping the advantage she gave Devon would have been a good one, therefore starting a new showmance with a cuter, smarter guy.

[amazingracefan]

I'm not sure it decided the challenge but it does annoy me when a luck element is put in (whether you choose the right key first or not).