GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[nilyank]

3 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I remember way too much. They started her with AJ just to fuck him over (again) and have Courtney be “saved” by Jason, literally carried her stripper-self from the pole. Then they got married in FRANCE. Uhhh, OK, I’m sure that wasn’t sticking it to JnR at all. RME.

But Guza got his way and then made the wedding  null and void with AJ not being dead and their divorce not being legal. Ir something equally petty.

[ulkis]

10 minutes ago, jsbt said:

They were the entire show for a year (it felt like five). It was all-consuming: Sonny, Carly, Jason, Courtney. Then as Frons took his eye off the ball at GH - and Kelly Monaco became available - Courtney swiftly became more and more marginalized going into late fall and winter, IIRC.

Even the wedding, I think, was kind of at the beginning of the end in those late months, tossed off like they had to. I believe it was November sweeps '03, but it was not feted like Luke and Laura Part II. It was like 'oh yeah, we did that.' Guza never wanted Courtney around/with Jason, and Guza wanted creative control. He got it. A matter of weeks after the wedding, Courtney was written increasingly 'unsympathetically' re: the mob and Jason's ties to it. By February or March 2004, after the hotel fire, they were basically over IMO.

Ha, now I do remember some clips of Sonny yelling at Courtney about reporting a murder or something and he was like, "why'd you do that? Because it's the LAW?" Uh, yeah?

[HeatLifer]

6 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Ha, now I do remember some clips of Sonny yelling at Courtney about reporting a murder or something and he was like, "why'd you do that? Because it's the LAW?" Uh, yeah?

All the women go through the same “problem” before they get thrown out by either Jason or Sonny: they suddenly don’t accept their ~life~

Edited June 3, 2019 by HeatLifer

[Asp Burger]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

I remember Burton acting in the break up with Courtney on the docks in the rain. But they were breaking up. I . . . can't remember ANYTHING from their actual relationship. I know they got married. That's it.

Yes, it's weird. I try to visualize them in scenes together and very little comes to mind, considering what a force-feed they were and how I didn't stop watching in that period.

Here's all I've got: 

I remember Red-Menace Michael being traumatized by something, and Courtney was telling him a bedtime story about how her dog would turn into "Wonder Rosie" and fly over Port Charles in a cape, watching out for little boys like him. Jason was standing at the door staring -- we were supposed to think he was falling in love with her because she was so good with Michael. 

I remember they were on a beach or something, and he was wearing cargo shorts and was smilier than he usually is/was. The people on SoapZone who hated the pairing were saying he wasn't dressing/acting like the real Jason and it looked like an Old Navy commercial.

I remember her crying, begging and pleading for him to take her along in mob work ("I'm strong. I know how to fight. You can teach me to use a gun"), and him telling her to cut it out. 

I do not remember their break-up scene, their wedding, or really any other significant scenes of their relationship. The only other scenes that come to mind are ones they had with another character, like the big confrontation at Kelly's with Liz. Or scenes "about" them as a couple, when they weren't actually onscreen, like Sonny inspecting their little love nest and finding the panties. (That was unforgettable.) 

They are the would-be supercouple that disappeared into a sinkhole. 

[Oracle42]

8 hours ago, jsbt said:

I thought Jason's reactions to Sam's pregnancy and John McBain were refreshing and interesting in that they were human and flawed

I thought his reaction was impressively human. It was shitty but it was also the most relatable and human that he's been... ever?  I just wanted more. He's capable of complex emotions even if he's not capable of parsing them - so I wanted an acknowledgement that some of this was rage/shame/guilt at his forced helplessness when his wife was attacked. That's potentially good soap, especially with a character like Jason, who never really loses. I became less interested when I realized that it was just about McBain

9 hours ago, jsbt said:

(* - and, as sick as it is, I do believe there was a sexual/cuckold element to the crisis Jason faced with potentially raising Sam's baby by another man/his worst enemy, even by rape.) 

This is one of the reasons I still have a problem with Franco. Even if those bullshit redemption DVDs were 100% on the level, the physical rape of Michael & Sam weren't even the point for Franco. He wanted their (and Jason's) pain and fear and humiliation after the fact. That's why he turned Michael's rape into a public art installation and Sam's into stalking and baby gifts and graffiti. Franco attacked the two people Jason would've felt most responsible for protecting and possibly fathered the child he was going to be expected to raise and there's no real story aside from, McBain would never... And Brody & Liam beg to differ.

[jsbt]

5 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I thought his reaction was impressively human. It was shitty but it was also the most relatable and human that he's been... ever?  I just wanted more. He's capable of complex emotions even if he's not capable of parsing them - so I wanted an acknowledgement that some of this was rage/shame/guilt at his forced helplessness when his wife was attacked. That's potentially good soap, especially with a character like Jason, who never really loses. I became less interested when I realized that it was just about McBain

I mean, I think a lot of it was too much about McBain, sure. The day to day writing was slanted and poor. But a lot of the fundamental character or thematic beats worked for me, some for the reasons you say. I also think it is tricky to say they should've shown more of Jason's POV, because Jason has very little conventional inner life or narrative. He thinks and acts. I think they could've done it through more conversations, but there were too busy doing dumb fucking shit with Connie, Joe Jr., Trey and John and Sonny's stupid fucking backstory.

The aspect of John and Sam I liked a lot - and I despised John McBain on OLTL almost as much as I despise Jason - was that, in a new environment, he was largely just a man devoted to the law who had no context for and no respect for Sonny and Jason's code in Port Charles. If he wanted to bring them in and shake them down on some crime beef, he did. He didn't give a fuck. And for the first time ever the writing was with him. That was refreshing. He gave Sam a window into asking 'why am I doing this in this life now that I have a child on the way? Why am I letting my husband send goons to beat up a friend who actually does support me?' All that, I liked. And I liked it knowing damn well John's fatal flaw, which was that he was going to stray from his committed relationship and son - and Natalie, his lover on OLTL and the mother of his child, is one of my favorite OLTL characters of all time and was too good for him, I had hated the couple for many years - because I liked that the show was allowing him to make the mistake and acknowledge it. I don't care if a character does dumb shit. It's human. I care how the writing treats it. Would RC have gotten around to grinding down Natalie over it if it was up to him, probably (though Natalie was also one of his favorites). But in the moment they didn't, really.

8 hours ago, ulkis said:

Ha, now I do remember some clips of Sonny yelling at Courtney about reporting a murder or something and he was like, "why'd you do that? Because it's the LAW?" Uh, yeah?

IIRC Courtney befriended a local cop, Brian Beck. Actually, not local, he was an out of towner. He was a bit wooden but they had some chemistry, and she did kiss him when things got really raw with Jason, like two months after their vows. I'll let SoapCentral's bio cover some of this, it came literally like weeks after the tossed-off Paris wedding for Brian Frons' prefab/mandated 'supercouple' that had dominated most of the past year - and right after Sonny Shot Carly In The Head While She Gave Birth (TM 2003).

Quote

Courtney cared for her nephews while Carly lay in a coma. Fearing for the safety of the kids, she took them to live in another town away from the mob violence. While there, she met Brian Beck, the local handyman/sheriff who also owned the house.

To interject for a moment: Yes, this happened like, a few weeks after the wedding and after big-upping Jason's lifestyle and being pitched as the Kung Fu Action Girl for months and months - with fight scenes, gym routines, etc. And since others have mentioned it, that's what I really remember of Jason and Courtney as a couple: The ridiculous girl on girl fighting scenes, the scenes where ripped jock (lol) Courtney is beating up mob dudes, jumping off boats, etc. Everything was geared to have us see Courtney as the ultimate juiced!!! action heroine; Sam is restrained (or sedated) by comparison. She owns all the bad guys, she owns Faith, she and Carly are the best friends ever and talk everyday (and we see all of it), etc. And meanwhile Jason himself just didn't look very interested in her even though this was their grand action love story sponsored by Brian Frons, starring Courtney and Jason. I'm sure Steve was thinking about how they'd killed the love triangle with Becky Herbst.

Then after all that, they finally marry and Courtney's suddenly like 'I can't live this life! I'm moving out of town!' I remember on TWOP we made great sport of it. It changed practically overnight; she was pushed like the Tae Bo goddess of her dreams, and then she was just Jason's nagging wife who just didn't get it and also is on less and less and oops, now she's fucked up and they're over.

Anyway:

Quote

Jason eventually brought her back to Port Charles and Brian seemingly followed them when he got a job on the PCPD. Jason and Courtney began to drift apart as Courtney realized she couldn't live in Jason's world with all the secrets and violence. She moved out of the penthouse and into a room over Kelly's. Brian began trying to spend more time with her and convinced her to accompany him to the opening of the Haunted Star. Jason and others tried to warn Courtney that Brian was only using her to get dirt on Jason and Sonny. Courtney ignored their warnings until she began noticing things that supported their warnings. She followed Brian the night he went to the docks to ambush one of Sonny's deliveries. A shoot out ensued and Courtney shot Brian in the back when she saw Brian prepared to do the same to Jason. Courtney felt extremely guilty and wanted to turn herself in. But Jason wouldn't let her and even Brian protected her by naming Zander as his shooter.

Then came the hotel fire in February sweeps, where Brian was killed and basically the mini-story with him, the fire, etc. was the end of Jason and Courtney. There was a little divorce angst in the following months but she was already alienated from Sonny and Jason and being moved to Jax. Guza got his way with Courtney the instant Kelly Monaco came to the show, and Frons' focus slipped away from Alicia Leigh Willis. Everything after that was just a slow disappearance, including Courtney remaining on the show for another two years as a low-tier player with Jax and Nikolas (who had also become part of Guza's disinterest pile in '04 and '05) in B/C plots, and also taking the last few months of 2005 off because Guza really didn't give a shit about her, before returning in early 2006 to get killed off by the monkey virus.

I've wasted my life.

Edited June 4, 2019 by jsbt

[ulkis]

Courtney and Dante should have been the Jon and Daenerys of GH.

I'm just kidding don't do it show!

[Oracle42]

 dammit, ulkis! You say these things knowing damn well that FV has never seen a bad idea that he didn't instantly fall in love with. Also, if you think anyone other than Silas McFinn is going to be the dark-haired, moody king by birthright - there's a supermarket  video you should probably see

[Oracle42]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

The aspect of John and Sam I liked a lot - and I despised John McBain on OLTL almost as much as I despise Jason - was that, in a new environment, he was largely just a man devoted to the law who had no context for and no respect for Sonny and Jason's code in Port Charles. If he wanted to bring them in and shake them down on some crime beef, he did. He didn't give a fuck. And for the first time ever the writing was with him. That was refreshing. He gave Sam a window into asking 'why am I doing this in this life now that I have a child on the way? Why am I letting my husband send goons to beat up a friend who actually does support me?' All that, I liked. And I liked it knowing damn well John's fatal flaw, which was that he was going to stray from his committed relationship and son - and Natalie, his lover on OLTL and the mother of his child, is one of my favorite OLTL characters of all time and was too good for him, I had hated the couple for many years - because I liked that the show was allowing him to make the mistake and acknowledge it. I don't care if a character does dumb shit. It's human. I care how the writing treats it. Would RC have gotten around to grinding down Natalie over it if it was up to him, probably (though Natalie was also one of his favorites). But in the moment they didn't, really. 

Yeah, McBain v Jason is not a hatred I've tried to compare,  I think it works break my brain. The look on Jason's face when John treated him the way a real cop would treat a lowlife criminal warms my heart to this day. i absolutely loved all of his scenes with Anna. And yes, Natalie has always deserved better (Jared Banks > Cristian >>>>>>> McBain).  But after all the groveling she had to do to get his stupid, sulky ass back - the return of Cap'n  Save a ho irritated the s*** out of me. Because the writing treated it like a fated relationship instead of treating it like John was doing the same shit John always does when he happens upon a grieving  woman. The thought of John alternating between fucking the newly minted widow and staring at her in pursed lip disapproval for several years was exhausting.   Of course, at the time I assumed she'd be allowed to keep her job and character/character flaws.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

And yes, Natalie has always deserved better (Jared Banks > Cristian >>>>>>> McBain).

Jared was the only one who never tried to "fix" her. Melissa Archer had great chemistry with John Barrowman. Actually, she had great chem with all of the men she was paired with.

I really liked McBain on GH precisely because he came with no Sonny baggage. (I blocked out his OLTL history.) And his scenes with Anna were some of the best that FH has had in a long time. Interesting that now that ME is Finn, his scenes with FH are a snore. Terrible writing, as usual, but there's a different dynamic now, for the worse, IMO.

[UYI]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Jared was the only one who never tried to "fix" her. Melissa Archer had great chemistry with John Barrowman. Actually, she had great chem with all of the men she was paired with.

I really liked McBain on GH precisely because he came with no Sonny baggage. (I blocked out his OLTL history.) And his scenes with Anna were some of the best that FH has had in a long time. Interesting that now that ME is Finn, his scenes with FH are a snore. Terrible writing, as usual, but there's a different dynamic now, for the worse, IMO.

Brotherton. 🙂

(And I'll leave my broken Crisalie heart for the OLTL forum. 😛 )

[dubbel zout]

LOL. Thanks for the correction, @UYI. I thought something wasn't quite right but I was too lazy to google. (I'm sure MA would have had great chemistry with Barrowman, too.)

[Asp Burger]

This is nothing I haven't said before, but re: Zander/Juan reminiscing in the "News" thread:

When Chad Brannon first took over Zander (I remember nothing about Marc Brett's short-lived original version), I liked both the actor and the character a lot. CB had something different and fresh, and the show was not exactly in its best period for the younger male cast. There were no standouts. Zander had been involved in some criminal things, but nothing I thought made him irredeemable by GH standards, and he had prevented Emily's murder by Sorel's goons.

But a series of writers made so many bad decisions with him, and Amber Tamblyn's departure from the Emily role hurt too, because a lot of the appeal was the chemistry between those two. Even his back story -- being Dr. Lane Smith's son, who fled home after his more favored brother died in an Ordinary People ripoff -- was bad, and an affluent background did not really fit the way CB had been playing him. So it was death by a thousand cuts.   

By the time Guza and Pratt were writing, and he was trying to ingratiate himself with any mobster that would have him, I couldn't stand him anymore (nor did it seem they had any use for him). I think even Brannon had given up on the character in his last two years. It wasn't like Shiloh and Ryan presently, where the character is awful but the performances are good. With Zander, the character got worse and worse and the acting got shallower.  

Juan, I felt, just never worked at all. It was 1999, boy bands were hot at the time, and so was Ricky Martin, so we got VH-Juan, connected to RM's character. On paper, Juan was the sympathetic character in the triangle with Emily and Zander, but I wasn't rooting for him. He was an Oscar type -- I was relieved when he got cut loose. I never had to hear him tell Emily "You're my gurrfrenn!" again.  

Edited June 11, 2019 by Asp Burger

[jsbt]

Yeah, Juan never worked. Wendy Riche and the show pushed him hard - around the time she was also pushing Hannah and Chloe - and the dissonance between her vision and Guza's grew very strong in that period. So for fans to enjoy Zander, a talented dayplayer who made good, was kind of another act of rebellion at the time from the audience as well as the writers. Riche was gone as part of the creative clash not long after Zander took off, as was Guza with her.

I liked him a lot, and I loved him with Amber. I also thought Chad had real chemistry with Natalia Livingston. And for a time, when Steve was gone, they seemed to be trying to groom Zander into Jason Jr. But once Steve got back his days were numbered. Guza had no use for him from that point on, as he'd also gotten Tyler Christopher back as Nikolas and was ready to finally fulfill the romantic tension between Nik and Em that had existed since the '90s. And I couldn't fault that choice - I'd always wanted that pairing, but I also loved Zander and Emily, and the triangle with Nikolas, Emily and Zander which could have been dynamite was mishandled and assassinated Zander's character. That was just how Guza had operated at that point once he returned.

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, jsbt said:

I also thought Chad had real chemistry with Natalia Livingston.

Same here, even if Zander and NL's Emily didn't work for me. His little cameo on the airplane when NL was Rebecca was a lovely Easter egg for longtime fans.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

but I also loved Zander and Emily, and the triangle with Nikolas, Emily and Zander which could have been dynamite was mishandled and assassinated Zander's character

I uber-loved Zander/Emily with AT's Emily. And it was different, but I did think Chad Brannon had something there in terms of a spark with Natalia Livingston's Emily. But the trouble is, they were barely able to cultivate it and see what could come of it before the stupid cancer got in the way. And while I will concede AT's Emily and Nik had the unrequited crush on Emily's part when she was a kid in the '90s, the way I see it? If they were really as meant to be as some believed, two viable pairings in Nikolas/Gia and Zander/Emily would not have to had been annihilated in the most character-damaging ways (especially for Zander) to accommodate them.

Instead, Nik started acting like a dick to Gia (and Marisa Ramirez likely saw the writing on the wall, hence her exit and the sudden recast in Andrea Pearson) and Emily married Zander while having pretty-princess fantasies about Nik instead of being a grown up and telling Zander she had feelings for Nik.

The fact that Chad Brannon still managed to snag an Emmy in that mess seemed like a nice FU to the story, since Zander became mulch for Nik/Emily. And all of the above is why I still forever loathe Nikolas/Emily with the heat of a thousand suns and I welcomed story line karma when they went kaplooey.

But I did like the Easter egg with Rebecca and Aaron on that plane, so Zander/Emily sort of, kind of had the last laugh, after all.

[ulkis]

I don't think Zem with the recast was ever even considered; NL seemed to be cast specifically with TC in mind; she seemed kinda tall for CB and looked older than him.

I think it was SB was what screwed Zander, not Nem. Guza would have written him off another way.

[WendyCR72]

37 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I don't think Zem with the recast was ever even considered; NL seemed to be cast specifically with TC in mind; she seemed kinda tall for CB and looked older than him.

I think it was SB was what screwed Zander, not Nem. Guza would have written him off another way.

Not sure that's true or the show could have ditched Zander in the window between AT and NL. It took a while for the recast, if I remember right. CB was on for some time before Steve Burton came crawling back. And off screen Emily had split with Zander over the phone. When she returned, she confided to Monica about her cancer and why she was pushing Zander away, admitting she still loved him. The show could have left that split to start Nik/Emily, but as shown above, that wasn't the case.

Also, if Nik/Emily were planned, there was really no reason to keep Gia on in any form - because most, if not all, of her story was tied to Nik.

So I do think Nik/Emily was a factor in both Zander and Gia being screwed over.

[UYI]

Amber Tamblyn last aired on GH in July of 2001. Natalia Livingston first aired on GH in April of 2003. So it was almost two years before the recast occurred.

[WendyCR72]

6 minutes ago, UYI said:

Amber Tamblyn last aired on GH in July of 2001. Natalia Livingston first aired on GH in April of 2003. So it was almost two years before the recast occurred.

Well, I did say a "while", LOL! But yeah, I had forgotten it was that long!

[UYI]

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, I did say a "while", LOL! But yeah, I had forgotten it was that long!

I wanted to find AT's last scene, but the closest I got on YT was the Q's on the Fourth of July. I did find NL's first scene, though. 

There are quite a few AT!Zem scenes on YT, but a lot of them were posted so long ago, that the audio/video quality is kind of low and choppy. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by UYI

[WendyCR72]

Just now, UYI said:

I wanted to find AT's last scene, but the closest I got on YT was the Q's on the Fourth of July. I did find NL's first scene, though. 

There are quite a few AT!Zem scenes on YT, but a lot of them were posted so long ago, that the audio quality is kind of low and choppy. 

Doesn't help that YT hasn't been very kind in terms of soap stuff staying up, too.

[jsbt]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

I don't think Zem with the recast was ever even considered [...] I think it was SB was what screwed Zander, not Nem. Guza would have written him off another way.

I agree, as I said. And yes, I am certain Nik and Em was on the books from Day 1 with Natalia Livingston. They brought her on to do the pairing with Nikolas, and play the triangle with Zander, which Zander would lose. But I still think it was a mistake to discard the couple and Zander outright.

I'm also pretty sure Nik and Gia were well over before Tyler returned, which was another mistake IMO, not playing those beats. Gia could've gone a long way to helping Nik's character in some of that period. (I believe Marisa Ramirez also quit before TC's first airdate - I'm not sure Andrea Pearson's Gia had many if any scenes with him, and I do remember them giving her a brief and pointless fling with Zander.)

Edited June 12, 2019 by jsbt

[Melgaypet]

27 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I'm also pretty sure Nik and Gia were well over before Tyler returned, which was another mistake IMO, not playing those beats. Gia could've gone a long way to helping Nik's character in some of that period. (I believe Marisa Ramirez also quit before TC's first airdate - I'm not sure Andrea Pearson's Gia had many if any scenes with him, and I do remember them giving her a brief and pointless fling with Zander.)

I agree. And Pearson had only one scene with Tyler that I remember and it wasn't anything of substance, they ran into each other on the docks and awkwardly said hello. You barely got the sense that these two people knew each other, never mind being in love not that long before.

[jsbt]

One of maybe a handful of scenes NuGia and Nik had together - most of the scenes were support stuff for Emily(!!! - never exactly Gia's favorite person) or Gia being part of the losers' coupling with Zander who became her friend/fuckbuddy.

I always loved the original Nik and Gia pairing, even though it was Coltin Scott Martines the creepy scammer in the role at the time. I didn't hate Andrea Pearson but the character was basically completely different and unrecognizable (though I think they'd randomly turned into a lawyer just before Marisa Ramirez quit, too). It was a waste.

[WendyCR72]

Like I said, all of the character destruction and pretzel twisting - whether Nik/Emily was planned or not - makes me glad all these years later that they were blown up, too. I know, not an adult reaction. But at least I admit it.

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I know, not an adult reaction.

This show doesn't deserve adult reactions!

[WendyCR72]

8 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

This show doesn't deserve adult reactions!

Excellent point! Duly noted.  🙂

[Mckinnonsgirl]

On 6/11/2019 at 1:06 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I uber-loved Zander/Emily with AT's Emily. And it was different, but I did think Chad Brannon had something there in terms of a spark with Natalia Livingston's Emily. But the trouble is, they were barely able to cultivate it and see what could come of it before the stupid cancer got in the way. And while I will concede AT's Emily and Nik had the unrequited crush on Emily's part when she was a kid in the '90s, the way I see it? If they were really as meant to be as some believed, two viable pairings in Nikolas/Gia and Zander/Emily would not have to had been annihilated in the most character-damaging ways (especially for Zander) to accommodate them.

Instead, Nik started acting like a dick to Gia (and Marisa Ramirez likely saw the writing on the wall, hence her exit and the sudden recast in Andrea Pearson) and Emily married Zander while having pretty-princess fantasies about Nik instead of being a grown up and telling Zander she had feelings for Nik.

The fact that Chad Brannon still managed to snag an Emmy in that mess seemed like a nice FU to the story, since Zander became mulch for Nik/Emily. And all of the above is why I still forever loathe Nikolas/Emily with the heat of a thousand suns and I welcomed story line karma when they went kaplooey.

But I did like the Easter egg with Rebecca and Aaron on that plane, so Zander/Emily sort of, kind of had the last laugh, after all.

In my soap opera world, Zander is really Alexis's son,  I guess Sam could be his twin... But Zander was meant to be her long lost child. 

[WendyCR72]

25 minutes ago, Mckinnonsgirl said:

In my soap opera world, Zander is really Alexis's son,  I guess Sam could be his twin... But Zander was meant to be her long lost child. 

I actually heard that rumor, too. Another thing Nik ruined for me, because of Alexis' family ties. Sigh. I loved how loyal Zander was to Alexis.

[Asp Burger]

Just for bookkeeping on the dates: Marisa Ramirez vacated the role of Gia and was immediately replaced in December 2002. Natalia Livingston first aired as Emily (who had been off canvas for a while) on April 1, 2003, and Tyler returned as Nikolas later that month. So there was a short period of overlap for NL and Coltin Scott Stephen Martines, which for some reason I'm having a hard time remembering.   

NL was/is a much-disliked actor on every board I read. My impression was that she had a weird backward trajectory. Usually when young actors start on a soap, they're raw and amateurish, and the best ones find their footing. She, on the other hand, never impressed me more than in her first few days, when Emily was catching up with her friends and family while hiding a terrible sekrit (the cancer, a story that started immediately). I thought she was really pretty and came off as warm and sensitive, and did a good job with the inner turmoil of what Emily was concealing. But the longer she was on, the more that positive impression faded. Before long, she was all tics and heavy breathing when she wasn't stiff as a board. I wondered if she was getting bad guidance from someone.

I liked Gia #2 (Andrea Pearson) much more than Gia #1, in large part because Marisa Ramirez's whiny voice drove me up a wall, and I preferred Pearson's savvier, more grown-up version to the conniving wannabe princess. I do agree that it was a completely different character, though. There's "growth" and "evolution" and then there's "This doesn't even seem like the same person who did all that other stuff only a year ago."  

I agree with @ulkis that they probably cast NL with Tyler in mind.  I also agree that SB's return was the beginning of the end for Zander. He immediately started acting like a bratty preadolescent. I guess you could fanwank that Sonny had been a replacement "father figure" and Jason became the golden-boy older brother who aced him out, and it was like his childhood all over again, but I think that that would be giving Pruza's writing credit it doesn't deserve. It wasn't that nuanced.  They were just trashing him. 

Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut, and one character Megan McTavish wrote pretty well was Zander. He actually had a good year under her. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Asp Burger

[jsbt]

They absolutely cast Natalia with TC/Nem in mind. The story was a go from the jump. I was also very impressed with her early on, along with her with both Tyler and Chad Brannon. It was the story and execution that were botched, not the concept of fulfilling the long tease of Nikolas/Emily or the triangle. But by the end of the year a lot of people were already sick of them.

Andrea Pearson was a lovely young woman and a decent actress but I had no time for her Gia because it wasn't Gia, and she didn't do much of anything. Before they finally got rid of her I was wondering why they didn't use her as a redemptive arc for Nikolas as she gets sick or something - play a mini-Love Story angle with Nik and Gia, kill her off and make people feel for him again.

Chad did have a good year in 2001, but anyone in his position would've with Steve gone. IMO Megan was just a hack, plain and simple.

[UYI]

On 6/14/2019 at 3:31 AM, Asp Burger said:

Just for bookkeeping on the dates: Marisa Ramirez vacated the role of Gia and was immediately replaced in December 2002. Natalia Livingston first aired as Emily (who had been off canvas for a while) on April 1, 2003, and Tyler returned as Nikolas later that month. So there was a short period of overlap for NL and Coltin Scott Stephen Martines, which for some reason I'm having a hard time remembering.   

Amber Tamblyn last aired on GH on July 11th, 2001. Emily was gone throughout the year of 2002.

I seem to remember that after NL was cast as Emily, Amber gave an interview where she was quoted about being less than pleased that the show had hired another actress to play Emily, rather than bring her back for short visits here and there. This was only a year or so before she found success with Joan of Arcadia and The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, so she might not have been so concerned with that later on (obviously), but in a weird roundabout way, it DID show that she was proud of the character and the show, and was willing to return if she could. I could definitely see why they brought back Emily full time with another actress if AT wasn't willing to do that, but still. 

[dubbel zout]

I think an Emily recast was inevitable, since Amber Tamblyn was obviously going to go on to other projects. She didn't strike me as a soap lifer, NTTAWWT.

[ulkis]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think an Emily recast was inevitable, since Amber Tamblyn was obviously going to go on to other projects. She didn't strike me as a soap lifer, NTTAWWT.

NTTAWWT?

[BlancheDevoreaux]

31 minutes ago, ulkis said:

NTTAWWT?

Not that there's anything wrong with that

[dubbel zout]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

ETA: Jinx with @BlancheDevoreaux! You owe me a soda.

[UYI]

40 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think an Emily recast was inevitable, since Amber Tamblyn was obviously going to go on to other projects. She didn't strike me as a soap lifer, NTTAWWT.

Oh totally, I just swear I remember a quote from Amber along those lines. I just wish I knew where I could find it. 

[dubbel zout]

Oh, I'm sure she felt that way, especially before her post-GH career took off. It was obvious from how she played Emily that she was invested in the character.

[jsbt]

That is absolutely not an acronym and I don't accept it.

I think they would have always had to recast Emily eventually, because Amber was always going to go on to bigger things. But JFP drove her and others off the show before their time, and that always left a bad taste in my mouth. When ABC let her push both Sarah Brown and Amber out in rapid succession while frontlining Jensen Buchanan (amid a lawsuit), Robin Christopher, A Martinez and Angel Boris I was amazed - they didn't care much about OLTL and what she did there, but GH was the flagship of the daypart. I couldn't believe they were letting her turn the big soap of the network into her tacky shit. And so, it didn't last.

Edited June 18, 2019 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, jsbt said:

That is absolutely not an acronym and I don't accept it.

Okay, Grandpa.

[jsbt]

I've never seen it anywhere online. Just make up your hieroglyphs and lean back!

[Asp Burger]

13 hours ago, jsbt said:

while frontlining Jensen Buchanan (amid a lawsuit), Robin Christopher, A Martinez and Angel Boris 

And Robert Kelker-Kelly, and Linda Dano (her Rae was such an obnoxious recurring presence on GH)...

Everyone in the know predicted with Phelps's hire that the Friends of Jill were going to swarm the show, and it did happen for a while. I remember a rumor in 2001 that she was trying to get Louise Sorel too, to play another Skye support. I don't know whether that was bad information or something she actually was trying to make happen and wasn't able to. Some of JFP's favorites were actors whom I had liked very much in other things and might have been happy to see on GH, theoretically, but there are good and bad ways to use people. 

I'm a big Seinfeld fan, but when I read the contentious acronym, I didn't make the connection with "Not that there's anything wrong with that." I was guessing "Not that they asked what we think."  😉

[jsbt]

I was very well acquainted with what JFP had done to OLTL, so I knew it would happen. I just didn't believe they'd actually let her strip-mine the flagship soap so hard and fast. They did and it was the worst year GH had for a very long time.

I don't remember a Louise Sorel rumor - was there a character in mind? I do remember the claim (and I suspect it was true) that Tamara was hired as a temp. Carly was going to be raped by Sorel, then apparently die of a tumor or something. Mo and the fans saved her job.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

Carly was going to be raped by Sorel, then apparently die of a tumor or something.

Wow, that's gross. No woman, not even Carly, deserves that kind of treatment. 

If Carly were going to die, I want it to be because she can't butt out of other people's business and finally strokes out. The baby can die, too, as the last thing I want to watch is Sonny as the grieving widow/father of a newborn he'll never take care of anyway.

But we know she'll never die.

[UYI]

16 hours ago, jsbt said:

But JFP drove her and others off the show before their time, and that always left a bad taste in my mouth. 

Yeah, Sarah and Amber wanted to quit and did, but JFP more or less pushed them both to leave earlier than they wanted, right? At least in Amber's case. I seem to remember something about Sarah being asked to stay a bit past her original contract to wrap up Carly's story, and that there were several shouting matches between her and JFP before she left (although I guess not enough that she wasn't willing to return as Claudia in 2008). 

Edited June 18, 2019 by UYI

[Asp Burger]

Louise Sorel's character in the rumor was...I want to say "Althea"? Another mother figure who apparently died when played by another actress? I don't know enough about Skye's non-GH history, and a lot of years have gone by. Maybe the idea was that LS would play the Althea person in flashbacks. Nothing ever came of it. 

35 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Wow, that's gross. No woman, not even Carly, deserves that kind of treatment. 

In one version of that rumor, an episode was going to end with a musical montage of Angel and Sonny getting busy consensually at the cabin while, elsewhere, Sorel forced himself on Carly. Then, in Carly's post-rape exam, they find out she has aggressive cervical cancer or similar.

[dubbel zout]

UGH.

[UYI]

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

In one version of that rumor, an episode was going to end with a musical montage of Angel and Sonny getting busy consensually at the cabin while, elsewhere, Sorel forced himself on Carly. Then, in Carly's post-rape exam, they find out she has aggressive cervical cancer or similar.

Jesus Christ. 

Then again, it WAS Jill, but even for her...yikes.

No, I take that back. She was behind the story of Eden being raped by her gynecologist on Santa Barbara. Never mind.

(And just two years later, Megan McTavish was in the charge of the story on AMC where their young virginal lesbian character--Bianca Montgomery, of course--was brutally raped and impregnated, so this isn't exactly something foreign to her, either.) 

Edited June 18, 2019 by UYI

[jsbt]

1 hour ago, Asp Burger said:

Louise Sorel's character in the rumor was...I want to say "Althea"? Another mother figure who apparently died when played by another actress? I don't know enough about Skye's non-GH history, and a lot of years have gone by. Maybe the idea was that LS would play the Althea person in flashbacks. Nothing ever came of it. 

In one version of that rumor, an episode was going to end with a musical montage of Angel and Sonny getting busy consensually at the cabin while, elsewhere, Sorel forced himself on Carly. Then, in Carly's post-rape exam, they find out she has aggressive cervical cancer or similar.

That's the rumor I remember too, yes.

Althea was Adam Chandler's first wife and Skye's adoptive mother on AMC, IIRC. I think she was dead or presumed dead when the Chandlers came to the show.