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GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

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Well, if Luke was creeping all over Kiki, which I vaguely remember, then Ned might’ve told her to assure her that he wasn’t some harmless dirty old man and she was right to be wary, I guess? I wonder if Tracy told Ned, and if so, why.

If those two dunderheads knew, probably Michael does. I suppose it is something of an open secret.

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27 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Well, if Luke was creeping all over Kiki,

It wasn't Luke...it was...Fake Luke; then again, it was Luke, but his split/dark side? I can't recall. What I do believe is, that Ron probably was bringing back Bill, and when we all guessed who that was, came up with that stupid ass LAME, INSULTING split personality BULLSHIT.

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On 2/8/2018 at 7:27 PM, statsgirl said:

She suffered, which according to my bible is one way of being redeemed.  She's supported Maxie and she hasn't done anything to hurt anyone since the Brad/Finn thing.  I think at one point she did apologize for what she did.

Are you saying she apologized to Robin for the torture?!  And to Anna for letting her think her daughter was dead? If so, point me to the scene(s). 

Gati's acting makes me believe Liesl did love Nathan and is sad that he's deceased. But I don't feel sorry for the character; it's likely Faison would not have succeeded as he did in torturing, murdering, scheming, kidnapping etc. if not for her encouragement, enabling, and protection.

Edited by Bringonthedrama
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I think at some point she expressed remorse for her actions but it wasn't to Robin.

I used to be a huge Robin fan and boo'ed Obrecht thoroughly in those scenes. But lately every time Robin comes back she's so up propping Sonny and Jason that I have to fast forward through her scenes. So for me it's not much that she apologized to Robin as that I don't care if she does any more.

Exploring the relationship between Obrecht and Anna could be a fascinating two character play but it will never happen on this show,  they're wimminz.

Edited by statsgirl
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14 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think at some point she expressed remorse for her actions but it wasn't to Robin.

I used to be a huge Robin fan and boo'ed Obrecht thoroughly in those scenes. But lately every time Robin comes back she's so up propping Sonny and Jason that I have to fast forward through her scenes. So for me it's not much that she apologized to Robin as that I don't care if she does any more.

Exploring the relationship between Obrecht and Anna could be a fascinating two character play but it will never happen on this show,  they're wimminz.

You keep saying "I think." It either happened or it didn't. But if you just don't like Robin and don't care then that's a whole other topic. Otherwise, there has been no evidence presented that sweetie Liesl showed genuine remorse for what she did.

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I say "I think" because I seem to remember a scene after Obrecht got fired from the hospital when she told someone that she regretted what she had done. But I know enough about memory research that I could be wrong so I qualify my statement.  I don't care enough about this show to be fanatic about it.  Maybe someone could point out a scene within the past couple of months where she said "I regret nothing".

Does it matter all that much if a character comes out and says "I regret that I did X"?  Ava has said it, Franco has said it, Julian has been on the "I REGRET" train for months to the extent of tanking his trial but going by the posts, it doesn't change anything.

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3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I say "I think" because I seem to remember a scene after Obrecht got fired from the hospital when she told someone that she regretted what she had done. But I know enough about memory research that I could be wrong so I qualify my statement.  I don't care enough about this show to be fanatic about it.  Maybe someone could point out a scene within the past couple of months where she said "I regret nothing".

Does it matter all that much if a character comes out and says "I regret that I did X"?  Ava has said it, Franco has said it, Julian has been on the "I REGRET" train for months to the extent of tanking his trial but going by the posts, it doesn't change anything.

The saying, "Actions speak louder than words!" applies here, I think.

To compare with another soap, before its campy era, Days had a villain in Jack Deveraux. He was a rich arrogant SOB, the [adopted] son of a crooked politician. I mention the adoption for a reason, not to make a useless distinction. Jack actually was born into the poor abusive Johnson family with the name Billy, and his mom gave him and brother Steve up to save them from their abusive father. (Of course, she ended up having a daughter who ended up abused, but that's another long story.)

But Jack was a huge POS. He raped his wife (coincidentally, who was involved with his brother prior and still loved him) and used and you get the idea. But his turnaround upon his pairing with Jennifer Horton was slow. And intricate. And realistic. People warned Jen away. Jack himself loathed who he was, etc.

But it took around 4 or 5 YEARS before Jack had his "redemption" because, back then, the writers took the time to do it and do it right.

Now words are supposed to be enough. Or insta-remorse and romance.

And for crud characters in today's soap climate [SERIAL KILLER!, Julian Jerome], for many, it just never works.

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5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Does it matter all that much if a character comes out and says "I regret that I did X"? 

I mean, that's up to each viewer. I'm simply trying to find out if such a scene aired. I haven't seen any concrete evidence it has.

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3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The saying, "Actions speak louder than words!" applies here, I think.

Granted Jack Devereaux was cuter and it took longer but at his trial Julian took absolved Ava and Alexis from any responsibility for his actions (hiding the fact that Alexis had willingly spent the night with him) instead of blaming everyone around as someone else would do) and said that he deserved to stay in jail for what he had done. After he got out he sold his previous holdings and bought a small local pub/gastropub going legit as far as we know.  He's supporting the local economy and was on the side of Charles St residents over development. He didn't call in his mob contacts when his window was broken. Now we hear that he got hurt in prison defending someone weaker and he's offering his pub for the alternative dance.

On Alexis' part, she risked her career to get him out of jail when he was being beaten up there.  It's all very O. Henry but it sounds like a redemption storyline to me.

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

 I haven't seen any concrete evidence it has.

Which is why I keep saying "I think".  I don't have any concrete evidence like a youtube clip, just my recollection.

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On 2/21/2018 at 3:32 PM, statsgirl said:

I say "I think" because I seem to remember a scene after Obrecht got fired from the hospital when she told someone that she regretted what she had done. But I know enough about memory research that I could be wrong so I qualify my statement.  I don't care enough about this show to be fanatic about it. 

Gotcha. I was looking for details about an apology because in my mind, Obrecht's defining moments have to do with aiding Faison/helping hold Robin prisoner and torturing her. That was her introduction on GH, and the audience knows it was on-going. If someone referred to her apologizing about messing with colleague Fin's career, my reaction would be to quote actor Victor Garber's character's line on Alias, in reaction to his ex-wife apologizing for having been unfaithful during their marriage: "Of all the things you've done, that's what your apologizing for?!"

It bothers me that after everything she put Robin and Anna through, and the hostage situation in Liz's home which resulted in her shooting Liz, she still behaves like they're not even worthy of her time for a conversation about the hospital/ profession of medicine let alone an apology.

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18 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

It bothers me that after everything she put Robin and Anna through, and the hostage situation in Liz's home which resulted in her shooting Liz, she still behaves like they're not even worthy of her time for a conversation about the hospital/ profession of medicine let alone an apology.

I think that's in character for Obrecht, though. Apologizing is a show of weakness.

There was nothing wrong with that for Obrecht until the show decided it wanted her stick around. Now the writers have to figure out how to soften her enough so she's not just a cartoon villain. I don't think they've done it yet—Nathan's death didn't unleash any soul-searching or similar moment. The show is really lucky Kathleen Gati is so talented. She puts a lot more into Obrecht than is likely on the page. That said, I don't think Obrecht is necessary. We already have Julian as the town goat, Valentin as Anna's personal bête noire, and Greg Evigan as the villain du jour. Not to mention Franco.

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There's no out-and-out villain anymore the way Helena (and Faison) was. There can't be if they want the character to be full-time. Everyone today who's supposed to be a black hat is actually a very wishy-washy gray. And of course, given that our male and females leads are the major crime family in town, the "heroes" are pretty tarnished, too. With Luke/TG gone, there's no antihero, either.

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I don't think these writers can give him the proper nuance. Look what happened with Luke his last few years. I know CvE wasn't the HW then, but Frank was the EP.

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I think under CvE, it's possible that the writers could do an anti-hero justice. With Luke, as with Sonny and Jason, the problem was always that the actor had/has too much say over his storylines and the showrunner goes along with it.  Arcs got trashed for Geary's vacations, stories that should have had depth for many characters like Jake's death got distorted for Geary's ego.

There are storylines that I"m liking right now: Alexis and Finn's friendship, Maxie's pain over Nathan's death, Monica finally allowed access to her grandchildren, even the Charles Street shenanigans waiting for Jim to be exposed and watching the Curtis/Julian team-up improve both characters.  There are many things still wrong with the show but for about half of the storylines that don't involve a Corinthos, they're not bad.  And even then, Max Gail is doing a great job of Mike.

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23 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Arcs got trashed for Geary's vacations, stories that should have had depth for many characters like Jake's death got distorted for Geary's ego.

While insisting on rewrites to suit his ego is on Geary, the terrible story pacing because of his vacations is not; the writers knew exactly when he'd be away. It happened every year at the same time.

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Are you saying she apologized to Robin for the torture?!  And to Anna for letting her think her daughter was dead? If so, point me to the scene(s). 

Dr. O did not apply the electrodes to Robin.  There was another female's face shown applying the electrodes.  Shameful that I remember (or tbh, even still watch this Sonny/Jason love fest), but it was yet another stellar example of how low this show has sunk.

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8 minutes ago, sunnyface said:

Dr. O did not apply the electrodes to Robin.  There was another female's face shown applying the electrodes.  Shameful that I remember (or tbh, even still watch this Sonny/Jason love fest), but it was yet another stellar example of how low this show has sunk.

No, but she ordered it. And she was going to stick that needle with whatever was in it, into Robin, and it would have killed her, wee as she is; but Robert found her and in fighting with Obrecht got stuck with a needle and in a one year coma (Plot reasons) instead. Her hands are dirty and bloody, as much as Faison's, Ewwwan, and anyone else involved. Yes, even Jerry Jacks. Oh, whar's me brain? revisionist history, decided to add Helena as part of the cadre to torture Robin and keep her hostage forever.

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Her hands are dirty and bloody

It was horrible and somewhat mind-boggling that it would even be contemplated that Dr. O would be in charge of the hospital.  KG has been doing alright for the role that was given to her.  Oh - the depths this soap has sunk... .

Edited by sunnyface · Reason: Sonny
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I was curious about the '91 earthquake they referenced last week.  I started watching in '92, I think, so I just missed it.  Was it an actual onscreen story-line?  

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18 hours ago, megsara said:

I was curious about the '91 earthquake they referenced last week.  I started watching in '92, I think, so I just missed it.  Was it an actual onscreen story-line?  

Yes. It coincided with Robert & Anna having sex for the first time since before they were divorced (WAY before they were characters on the show). Hence the line, "the earth really moved!" from Anna (before they knew there really HAD been an earthquake, of course). Yes, really.

Felicia and Maxie (who was just a few months old at the time) also got stuck in debris at the brownstone, and Frisco had to save them.

I did find it weird that a town in upstate New York was hit by an earthquake, but there have been areas like that hit by earthquakes in the years since in real life (albeit rarely), so there you go. 

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I've noticed there have been more mentions of long-ago events and long-gone characters lately. Admittedly, some of this is coming in because they're doing an Alzheimer's story with a character who's been out of town most of the decade. But we've had name drops of SWSNBN, Hannah Scott, and Tammy Hansen. I wonder who will be next. Chloe Morgan? Marcus Taggert? 

Here's the first Hannah/Carly catfight, starring a very green Lisa Vultaggio and a 24-year-old Sarah Brown.  If you stick around long enough past that, there's some Real Emily.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY_0gXysS-U

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It's ironic that teen Emily is sobbing about Lucky's death in the fire, and tells Jason this is not his fault ... only to have the adult Emily recast get murdered as revenge on Jason. 

Luke makes a total asshole comment to Laura moments after she's just seen the burnt body of "Lucky." UGH.  Bobbie sits next to a sobbing Elizabeth and doesn't even seem to shed a tear that her own nephew is believed dead. She just seems vaguely disappointed or sad, why was that? 

Those scenes at the burned down shop showed the very beginning of Jason and Elizabeth connecting after JJ Lucky is declared "dead." Can you image if someone predicted that she would have a son by Jason, and then a third son by Lucky?  

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7 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

  Bobbie sits next to a sobbing Elizabeth and doesn't even seem to shed a tear that her own nephew is believed dead. She just seems vaguely disappointed or sad, why was that? 

 

Watch her reaction when she first learns of Lucky's death. She was clearly VERY upset (as in, she starts screaming no and jumping around in hysterics), and was most likely thinking the whole time about losing BJ. I assume by the time she was sitting with Elizabeth, she saw how upset the latter was and didn't want to make her feel any worse than she already did. She was probably trying to stay strong, since Liz was Lucky's girlfriend, so she could grieve privately later. 

Bobbie learns about it at 3:07 here.

Edited by UYI
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25 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

 Luke makes a total asshole comment to Laura moments after she's just seen the burnt body of "Lucky."

What did he say?

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20 minutes ago, UYI said:

Watch her reaction when she first learns of Lucky's death. She was clearly VERY upset (as in, she starts screaming no and jumping around in hysterics),

I thought Bobbie's wide eyes and screaming for two seconds was horror for her brother - she asks "Where's Luke?" "Where's Laura?" No sobbing in Mac's arms for a minute or two before going to hold Elizabeth.  Just strikes me as odd now.  

Sonny's utter lack of emotion through the scenes is gross, too.  His supposed close friend's son is presumed dead, and he just shrugs and says "Sorry" - no single tear running down a cheek, no wobbling chin. I had forgotten how awful he was even back then.

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13 minutes ago, ulkis said:

What did he say?

Laura: "You started all this, Luke. Don't you realize that? You taught our son to trust people like this. You made him believe he was safe with people like this, and that's why he never came home."

Luke: "The reason he never came home was there was no home to come to. There was a house of lies."

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13 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Laura: "You started all this, Luke. Don't you realize that? You taught our son to trust people like this. You made him believe he was safe with people like this, and that's why he never came home."

Luke: "The reason he never came home was there was no home to come to. There was a house of lies."

Oh, yeah. Not exactly the greatest thing to say but he was grieving too.  And she said the first hurtful comment. And Laura was lashing out because she hadn't been around when Lucky found out about the rape. The whole reason Laura wasn't there for any of it was because she had let Stefan blackmail her into moving away from Port Charles. He said if she didn't leave he would tell Luke that they had had sex on the island, and that Nik was their son.

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2 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Oh, yeah. Not exactly the greatest thing to say but he was grieving too.  And she said the first hurtful comment. And Laura was lashing out because she hadn't been around when Lucky found out about the rape. The whole reason Laura wasn't there for any of it was because she had let Stefan blackmail her into moving away from Port Charles. He said if she didn't leave he would tell Luke that they had had sex on the island, and that Nik was their son.

She said the first comment because he tried to shut her down as she was yelling at/blaming his buddy Sonny, and Jason too. And she's not wrong for what she said - young Lucky did believe Sonny and Jason were safe and trustworthy because that's what Luke believed. Adoring and following his father is also what got child Lucky shot before that, a fact which Luke conveniently forgets in the moment. Luke was pissed off that Laura thinks (accurately, in my opinion) that he's partly to blame, so he tries to say well, Lucky felt he couldn't come home and that's your fault.  

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11 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

young Lucky did believe Sonny and Jason were safe and trustworthy because that's what Luke believed.

Did Luke really believe that? I always got the feeling Luke was pretty pragmatic about who and what Sonny and Jason were. He liked them and did business with them on occasion, but they didn't exactly hang out as pals. (Or did that start only after Lucky "died" in the fire? I don't remember.) I can see how Lucky would think that means Sonny and Jason are cool and all of that, especially because Luke was also pretty nonjudgemental about what Sonny and Jason did for a living.

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14 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Did Luke really believe that? I always got the feeling Luke was pretty pragmatic about who and what Sonny and Jason were. He liked them and did business with them on occasion, but they didn't exactly hang out as pals. (Or did that start only after Lucky "died" in the fire? I don't remember.) I can see how Lucky would think that means Sonny and Jason are cool and all of that, especially because Luke was also pretty nonjudgemental about what Sonny and Jason did for a living.

I don't think he did; though the show tried to show us he did, by having that camping out episode with Mooby, Luke and Lucky? Where Lucky got his ear pierced? Or did that piercing happen before?

Either way, I know what I saw on my screen, and Guzasshole did his damndest to undo everything and revisionist bullshit with how Luke hated being domesticated and hated the life he, Laura, Lucky and Baby Lulu had, which is made to be a lie when one watches those scenes and knows he loved it.

It's been some time, but I remember Bobby being SHOCKED and in pain at learning that Lucky was in that fire. There is this one moment...she sucks in her breath sharply and long, as if she can't believe he's gone. I never saw her reactions as 'what about Luke?' at all.

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2 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

that camping out episode with Mooby, Luke and Lucky? Where Lucky got his ear pierced? Or did that piercing happen before?

Oh, right, I forgot about that. Yes, that's where Lucky got his ear pierced. I remember thinking that of all the things I never expected to see Sonny doing, camping was in the top five. LOL.

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7 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Oh, right, I forgot about that. Yes, that's where Lucky got his ear pierced. I remember thinking that of all the things I never expected to see Sonny doing, camping was in the top five. LOL.

Yes, Sonny went camping with Luke and Lucky. There was a time when Sonny said (I'm paraphrasing) to Luke that hanging out with Luke and young Lucky made him want to be a father. While the show didn't have Sonny hanging out often with Luke and Lucky on-screen (I assume in part because JJ was still a minor), it was implied that Lucky got to know Sonny well and trusted both Jason and Sonny. I recall a conversation in the police station when Lucky, played by adult JJ, was telling Claire that Sonny had a childhood that "would break anyone's heart," can be generous with money, and genuinely loves his kids -that how he lures women in because they think they can save him. The implication was that as a kid, he thought well of Jason and Sonny, but now as an adult he knows better. 

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15 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

She said the first comment because he tried to shut her down as she was yelling at/blaming his buddy Sonny, and Jason too. And she's not wrong for what she said - young Lucky did believe Sonny and Jason were safe and trustworthy because that's what Luke believed. Adoring and following his father is also what got child Lucky shot before that, a fact which Luke conveniently forgets in the moment. Luke was pissed off that Laura thinks (accurately, in my opinion) that he's partly to blame, so he tries to say well, Lucky felt he couldn't come home and that's your fault.  

But short of Luke building a time machine and telling himself three years earlier not to associate with Sonny and Jason, there was absolutely zero he could have done at that point. He would have never been able to force Lucky to stay in the house; ordering Lucky to stay away from Jason wouldn't have worked. And he didn't want Lucky to work for Jason. He went to Jason to ask him to keep Lucky away from serious mob stuff, and Jason agreed to only let Lucky do stuff like wash cars.

I don't blame Laura for lashing out at Luke but I don't blame Luke for snapping back. I don't think either of them meant to hurt the other.

Edited by ulkis
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3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I always got the feeling Luke was pretty pragmatic about who and what Sonny and Jason were. He liked them and did business with them on occasion, but they didn't exactly hang out as pals. (Or did that start only after Lucky "died" in the fire? I don't remember.)

I do remember that there was a serious rupture of the Luke/Sonny relationship in the aftermath of the fire, and I don't think they ever got all the way back to whatever closeness they had prior to 1999. Initially there was concern that the fire had something to do with Sonny. Laura went off on both Sonny and Jason ("Oh, that's right. You guys don't have kids!" which was really hitting them where they lived, re: Borgy's recent "loss" of Michael, Sonny's not-too-distant clink-boom tragedy). Luke was cold as ice to Sonny for a time. He had a scene, I think at his club, with Helena and Sonny, and he verbally bracketed them in some way, like they were the same. Then when Sonny and Luke were alone, Sonny was just aghast over it. "Seriously, you're lumping me in with her?" 

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By the way, @Bringonthedrama , hope I'm not coming across too strongly. That's  the great thing about the writing from then. You could dissect every angle for hours.

Admittedly too Luke at that time is on my list of favorite GH characters.

Edited by ulkis
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Whoa, when and how did they recently mention Hannah (and Courtney)? And WEHT Tammy?

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8 minutes ago, jsbt said:

Whoa, when and how did they recently mention Hannah (and Courtney)? And WEHT Tammy?

Michael was asking Jason what he thought of Nelle, and Jason said he didn't know her but Carly had great instints, so maybe Michael should listen to her. He used Carly suspeting Hannah from the start, of all things, as an example of her great instincts.

Mike had memory lapses and mentioned Courtney and Tammy. 

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Excuse me while I laugh at the idea that Jason had to reach back nearly 20 years to find an example of Carly’s so-called “great instincts.”

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2 hours ago, jsbt said:

And WEHT Tammy?

She just faded out without explanation. The recast version (Tamara Clatterbuck) was never as popular as Patricia Healy's original had been, and there was a regime change going on at the time, early 2001. Jill Farren Phelps was the new EP; Megan McTavish was about to take over as head writer. I assume the character/actress was a casualty of that. She got no sendoff, nor even a line explaining her disappearance. One day she was working at Kelly's as usual, and then she was gone.  

In last week's mention of her, when Mike spoke of her being his current girlfriend, Sonny and Carly acted bewildered, and then one of them reminded him that Tammy had moved away a long time ago.

Ironically, the character's Soap Central bio, written long before there was an Alzheimer's story involving Mike, concludes with "Her relationship with Mike, presence in Kelly's, and very existence are now just a memory." 

In one of his first scenes with Sonny last month, Mike said he never wanted to be a burden to Sonny and Courtney. Sonny thought he was confused and meant "Carly," similar two-syllable "C" names and all, but he may have really forgotten that his daughter was dead. That would be consistent with his illness as it's being dramatized. He'll be years in the past, and then someone will correct him and he'll say, "Oh, right. What's wrong with me?" 

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Yeah, I hated NuTammy. IIRC allegedly the original actress may have had RL issues, but to me that smacked of cheap.

Edited by jsbt

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For some reason I thought Patricia Healy had died at some point, but I was (thankfully) mistaken. There were reports that she was suicidal after she was let go from GH, but she denied them at the time:

http://soapcentral.com/gh/news/2000/0911-healy.php

She and her husband's house caught fire three years ago, killing their dog. So sad. That's all I know about her in terms of recent news, though. I didn't find any recent photos or anything like that. I hope she's doing well now.

http://soapcentral.com/gh/news/2015/0622-healy_fire.php

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Speaking of Mike's Alzheimer's and things he's flashing back to as part of it, wasn't he part of "Port Charles" for a while?  Didn't he own or run the Recovery Room, and wasn't he dating the Scanlon matriarch?

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If Phelps was so hell-bent on her friend Jensen Buchanan being a major part of the show, which clearly was the case, I wonder why they didn't just make her Tammy 3.0. She was the right age. She was blond. She was down to earth. She could do "good listener." She would have been in contact with some of the same characters she ended up bonding (or clashing) with in the character they made up for her. She probably would have rocked as Tammy, actually, and they could have beefed up the role. People would have been more accepting of a good, seasoned actress getting a lot of screen time as a character many of them already cared about. Especially after the Clatterbuck fail. 

Of course, McTavish would still have been writing it, so it still might have sucked, but in hindsight, it seems a better way to have gone.  

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Ugh. Am I the only one with a visceral dislike of Jensen Buchanan? I'm not even talking about a reaction to her off-screen behavior (which, is she still in jail?), but that she just turns me off. I never have been able to stand her, in any role.

I liked Tammy. I enjoyed the scenes where she was confessor to so many Port Charles men - Luke, Alan, Tony. Even Lucky in a few scenes. I was glad when she started running Kelly's and got her own little stories.

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