S07.E05: Holes

[iMonrey]

Quote

Meadow's situation is confusing. Was she tied up in that hole in the ground, but she escaped? 

She didn't appear to be tied up; I'm assuming she was simply dazed. And at this point I'm taking it at face value that she's on the outs with the cult since it does not serve their purpose for her to "out" Ivy to Ally - or, indeed, the existence of the cult itself. Whether the cult decided to off Meadow collectively or whether this is simply something Harrison and the blond detective guy decided on their own remains to be seen. The latter seems more likely given that Harrison was required to provide an explanation for her absence when he came to the meeting, but then I don't know why Meadow would have blurted out all that info about the cult to Ally if she was just trying to escape from Harrison and Meadow.

Quote

And Ally, if you want to play voyeur, turn off the lights in the room you are in, especially if you open the blinds!

Yeah that was really stupid.

[ShadowHunter]

I go back and forth on Meadow. This is an act on her part or she really does want help. Kai could have killed her easily so I don't know.

[Cheyanne11]

2 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

 

And Ally, if you want to play voyeur, turn off the lights in the room you are in, especially if you open the blinds!

OMG, I thought for sure Harrison was going to look up and see her!  EVERYONE knows you turn off the lights first, Ally!

I liked that Beverly compared their costumes to "A Clockwork Orange," as that's what I've thought since the minute I saw them.  Oh, wait, that means I'm thinking like a psychopath.  Um...

[courville]

57 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 Now if Ivy was paired off with Chas (i think charcters name is Bob but we are all gonna call him Chas aren't we?) then there might be some friction.

 

Gary Longstreet -- I have no idea why I remember this...

Edited October 4, 2017 by courville
punctuation

[ZoloftBlob]

Actually Meadow outing Ivy to Ally does serve the cult's purpose if Kai is really more interested in Ally. Ally is still dependant on Ivy, is still calling Ivy despite their breakup etc. Meadow putting it in Ally's head that Ivy is part of the conspiracy means Ally is now entirely alone... alone and in need of a tribe to take her in. She's now totally vulnerable and once she's IN the cult, kai can present this all as her being tested for worthiness.

[Avaleigh]

27 minutes ago, CrazyDog said:

Ivy? Wow, do I hate her. I really want to understand what these people expect this new world to look like. How does she see this as better for Ozzy, especially after everything she's putting him through?

I feel the same. She's awful and she's a horrible mother to allow Winter around her kid. She was obviously on board with the clowns coming into the house while her kid was there.

She's okay with her wife being terrorized because she didn't vote the way that she told her to vote. How sick is that? 

Ally supports her business which is obviously Ivy's dream since she's the one who is the chef. Meanwhile she guilt trips Ally about their sex life earlier when we see now that Ivy was the one who originally has issues in that area for whatever reason. 

She would rather burn the world down instead of working to make it a better place. 

On top of all of this, she has a secret relationship with Winter and she has the audacity to physically smack Ally in the face? I hope Ivy rots in jail for everything that she's done. 

I am 100% rooting for Ally. It doesn't bother me that she cries and has been scared. Who the hell wouldn't be especially when they aren't believed when they're telling people what they saw. The cop, the grocery store clerk, the neighbors, her wife--it's easy to see how she doesn't think anywhere is safe. She doesn't even know about the psychiatrist yet. 

[LoneHaranguer]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think I now grasp the idea that Kai was never actually a Trump supporter, per se, but wanted Trump to win simply because it would sow chaos which is exactly what he needs for his agenda.

What chaos was he expecting? The Office going over to the opposing Party like it usually does when somebody's held it for 8 years, shouldn't have been a big deal. The race was fairly close, so you'd also expect the losing side, whichever it was, to speculate about "what went wrong", and whine. Not seeing anything he could leverage.

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, Florinaldo said:

Even if they were on the edge of a "breakdown" the process would take more time in my view to appear believable. Anyway, I don't believe that description applies to most of them as they were written. They were tense, were having problems or felt insecure for example, but were not on the verge of mental dissolution.

Quite right; as a career path, "killing one's way to the top" has its limits.

Heh. Just ask Robespierre. Here are a couple of theories floating around:

Dr. Vincent may be the actual cult leader (since he was the older brother and clearly bossed Kai around in that scene), or that Bev is gonna take over the cult for her own purposes. But in the end, Kai continues to be the leader, and stands his ground against any usurpers. It's entirely too predictable any other way.

Don't be surprised if the big twist in this year's American Paulson Story is her ending up taking over the cult and screwing up another election for the democrats by running as a Green Party candidate.

[Fable]

4 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I was on the fence about his story but now I'm guessing that he wasn't telling Beverly the truth. I just don't believe that he'd give her that power. I think he's trying to make her feel important by making it seem as though he's only trusting her with this info. 

I don’t know how much of his story I believe either, but I am fairly certain he was playing Beverly with his show of emotion.  Everything we know about Kai says manipulator and we (and he) know that Beverly’s thing is equal power.  It seems likely that he is just allowing her to think she has some control when in reality he is using her power issues to control her. 

[Empress1]

6 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Right, and since the relationship is an abusive one, I can easily see Ma and Pa not making any kind of connections with their neighbors.

I have a "good morning/evening, how are you?/What weather we're having!/Your dog is so cute" relationship with my neighbors. They would absolutely take "she moved" at face value and not ask any more questions. My family, friends, and my job would wonder what happened to me, but my neighbors would not. Given that their relationship is abusive, I'd guess Ma was already pretty isolated (a hallmark of abuse), and neither was working so there wouldn't be many people to miss them.

I will say, though, that if my brother were like "Mom and Dad are dead but we just gon' keep them in their room so we can commit fraud, cool?" I'd be like, " ... " and report the deaths immediately, because, what?

I am usually good at spotting twists but I didn't see the therapist being Kai's brother coming. I also didn't see the gimp in the attic coming. WTF? That was a weird reveal! I guess everyone has skeletons in their closet. Or gimps in the attic, as the case may be. I had to look away when his hooks gave way.

Ivy is the worst. Ally is exhausting, but Ivy is the worst. Blowing up the world would be better for her son how, exactly? Be angry - I'm angry. But be productive, and stop terrorizing your wife. Jesus.

[iMonrey]

Quote

What chaos was he expecting? The Office going over to the opposing Party like it usually does when somebody's held it for 8 years, shouldn't have been a big deal. The race was fairly close, so you'd also expect the losing side, whichever it was, to speculate about "what went wrong", and whine. Not seeing anything he could leverage.

Well, there were lots of Bernie Sanders supporters who actually preferred to see Trump win - not because they supported Trump, but because they predicted a Trump presidency would be such a colossal disaster the country would essentially "blow up" and usher in a new era of revolution. This "scorched earth" attitude was one expressed by many on the left who were anti-Clinton. So I think that's what they were going for WRT Kai. I'd been confused because I couldn't figure out why he (a Trump supporter) and his sister winter (a Clinton supporter) were now on the same side. 

[Florinaldo]

3 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

That being said, with the fractured timeline, I started thinking we're going to fill this in from another POV later, so I'm reserving judgment and hoping that happens...

Excellent point, although RM is not in the habit in his series to fill in holes in character development, unelss there's some shock value to it.

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I just don't trust Kai's version of how his parents died. 

One of his sacred rules is that you tell the truth when locking pinkies. You certainly can't believe that a cult leader would violate his own rules to suit his own purposes?  ;-)

48 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Heh. Just ask Robespierre.

Or Saint-Just, whom I find more interesting. But they all got their heads chopped off in the end after killing adversaries, real or perceived, left and right. If that happens to Kai, "Beverly reporting" is the most likely candidate to overthrow him.

[willco]

I have to say nothing has really surprised me so far -and that's not to say I haven't liked the choices- I'm just not surprised that everyone not only knew each other before this all started, but some are even related. Until-- The Gimp !  That caught me off guard. I remember seeing that in a certain Quentin Tarantino film and it was shocking and surprising there as well. But "Bob" seems like such as straight shooter, an ass for sure, but still-- I guess you never really know what people do behind closed doors !

[AnimeMania]

44 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'd been confused because I couldn't figure out why he (a Trump supporter) and his sister winter (a Clinton supporter) were now on the same side. 

I think Kai and Winter had a bet. If Clinton won, I think Winter might have been leader of the cult.

[ZoloftBlob]

So we're five episodes in and upon reflection....

I'm worried there's not going to be any real payoff for any of these storylines. And I don't mind flashbacks or time jumps, but honestly, it's just lacking coherency. At the end of episode three, Harrison left his house screaming, running into cops, and Ally, covered in human blood screaming his wife was missing. 

Two episodes later, there's clearly been a time jump and we're not addressing this event at all. Simply because Ally is crazy and also "the lesbian George Zimmerman" - its increasingly hard to believe that an event where her neighbor who gave her the gun that she killed the poor American born latino man is found in public covered in blood is going to be newsworthy. There's no way other members of the cult wouldn't know Meadow is missing especially since they have news reporters in their organization. 

I hand waved a lot of stupidity in Freaks away because it wasn't a modern setting so maybe someone as bright as Elsa Mars would be completely bamboozled by a huckster claiming to be from Hollywood, but come on. Ally shooting Pablo would be national news and add in the "murder suicide" and police records of Ally complaining about clowns creeping around her house, and random creepy murders with "Red John" faces? This would be attracting outside attention.

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Ivy is the worst. Ally is exhausting, but Ivy is the worst. Blowing up the world would be better for her son how, exactly? Be angry - I'm angry. But be productive, and stop terrorizing your wife. Jesus.

Agreed, and it becomes even more bizarre to me when I think about how Ivy is exposing her child to these crazy murderous cult members (directly, in the case of Winter), which doesn't seem like the actions of someone who is particularly protective. If Ivy ever tried to leave, or disagreed with something they did, they could EASILY use the boy's life/safety as leverage.

[Stringey]

On 10/4/2017 at 2:52 PM, Avaleigh said:

I think most of what we saw happened. I think that his brother and sister believe it was a murder/suicide. I just don't trust Kai's version of how his parents died. 

This guy IS the weird creep who lives in his parents' basement. That city councilman had him pegged accurately from episode one. His father was constantly berating him. I think all of that stuff happened. 

He had the motive, the opportunity, and we know for a fact that he's a psychopath who gets off on killing people. You also have him calling the brother instead of the police. It's like he's testing the water and wants to see if somebody is going to believe his version of events. He initially objects to Vincent's plan but if he was so interested in not being "disrespectful" of his parents' bodies by leaving them there, why weren't the police his first phone call? IMO there was some self preservation going on with that move.

I won't be surprised if we end up getting the real version of that flashback. Perhaps when Kai and Beverly have a showdown about who's really in control.  

Ha ha earlier I was thinking back to episode one when he was called the guy that lives in his parents basement. And it is indeed literally true!!! Even though he has the house all to himself he apparently likes his followers to meet him in his basement as if he still is living in there. I took his parents story as face value after I heard it but now since others have questioned the validity I wonder too. The flashback gives you the idea he is not a psychopath but who is to say he was not he just acted normal in that scene. And yes that scene could be a lie to the audience to what really happened to his parents. We shall have to wait and see. But either he was really sad regarding that story(which can make one think it's true) or Kai was acting and  Kai is great at putting on an act. I love how when he is trying  drag people in he talks all respectful and has his wild hair up in the man bun. But when he has people where he wants them he is totally himself with the crazy hair and cruel way he speaks to even his followers.

 

Oh I noticed something interesting also in last night's episode.  Those that are familiar with the story of Charles Manson and some of the details will recognize what I am talking about. If I remember right Charles Manson favored a follower nicknamed Sadie.  Well here in this show Kai favors Beverly kind of in the same way. Maybe not sexually like Manson did Sadie but it's clear Kai thinks Beverly is more worthy. Even the way Kai spoke to her in one scene reminded me of Manson speaking to Sadie in one of the movies about him.

[Dobian]

The season stopped being scary this episode.  Not that it was ever *that* scary, but with the killer clowns and the mysterious night crews, it had a good creepy vibe to it.  Now that whole facade has been torn off and you see this cult for who they really are, the mystery is gone and so is the scariness.  This cult is downright comical and I just can't buy into it, except as maybe a parody of cults.  They come off as bumbling and inept, like people who want to pretend to be in a cult and do cult things for kicks.  And all so their leader can be elected to city council and vote on things like putting in a turn lane on Fifth street.  Ummm...okay.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Dobian

[GoneGirl]

Did anyone else think it was a bit ironic when Bob told Beverly “you’re fired!”????

Edited October 7, 2017 by GoneGirl
Wrong use of emoji’s

[ShadowHunter]

Its interesting now to go back and watch the early episodes knowing who everyone is. Future ones as well.  Sorry R.J.

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, Dobian said:

The season stopped being scary this episode.  Not that it was ever *that* scary, but with the killer clowns and the mysterious night crews, it had a good creepy vibe to it.  Now that whole facade has been torn off and you see this cult for who they really are, the mystery is gone and so is the scariness.  This cult is downright comical and I just can't buy into it, except as maybe a parody of cults.  They come off as bumbling and inept, like people who want to pretend to be in a cult and do cult things for kicks.  And all so their leader can be elected to city council and vote on things like putting in a turn lane on Fifth street.  Ummm...okay.

Interesting. For me this episode totally amped up the tension. Even though I hate Ivy at this point, I was terrified that we were going to see her being killed in an equally gruesome fashion because she asked Kai not to kill that guy and was visibly upset. She even apologized to him before she killed him. She's horrible so I'm not rooting for her at all, but I would still have cringed if I'd seen the cult turn on her because of Kai's orders.

I was also nervous when Ally went back into the house after seeing Meadow in that grave because I was sure that somebody else was going to be in the house with her after she locked the door. Every time Ally locks herself in, I'm suspicious that she's locking herself inside with one or more of the clowns. 

I was even on edge when Ivy ran out of the room at the anchorman's house. 

I feel like each episode has brought the tension up a notch. I didn't initially find the clowns to be scary (like in the grocery store scene--I felt like it was obvious that they weren't going to kill or maim her or anything like that) but once they attacked that married couple and butchered the annoying Serena, I've felt that the situations have been pretty unsettling. 

Oh hell, I was even nervous when Meadow was banging on Ally's window. That was a moment where I was thinking "Run, bitch, damn!!" If she really was in danger, maybe try another neighbor instead of the one she has a bad history with?

Regarding Kai being elected to the city council, I'm assuming that this is just the first rung on the ladder. Kai mentioned something about being a senator so I'm assuming that somehow he'll end up getting a state senate spot and then it'll go from there. 

I don't really understand how he feels like the blue hair and the man bun is going to gain him more followers. It seems like he'd attract more people with a more traditional look. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Avaleigh

[Christi]

at least he could take care of his roots if he wants to appear serious and professional

[TimeToCancelTM]

2 minutes ago, Christi said:

at least he could take care of his roots if he wants to appear serious and professional

Right??? Im sure winter could touch it up for him...lol 

[madhacker]

51 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

Sorry R.J.

Sorry about the character but just in case you didn't recognize him R.J. was played by James Morosini who played Bob the Spirit Hunter in the last episode of Roanoke (remember he got shot by arrows while trying to tell the cops to get back in their car) and he had a bit role in Feud. Sine he's been in the last few shows of Ryan Murphy I'm pretty sure he's got some job security for a while. Look at Darren Criss, 5 seasons on Glee, a bit role in AHS: Hotel now he's going to be in a crucial role in the new season of American Crime Story.

[Stringey]

1 hour ago, ShadowHunter said:

Its interesting now to go back and watch the early episodes knowing who everyone is. Future ones as well.  Sorry R.J.

Yaaay we know who is who. Okay so then it was detective Samuels and I forget who was he screwing in the grocery store?. I need to rewatch episode one.

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, ShadowHunter said:

Its interesting now to go back and watch the early episodes knowing who everyone is. Future ones as well.  Sorry R.J.

What kind of clown was Chaz?

[queenanne]

12 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

This was too gory for me and the creepy show that was the first few episodes, is now just torture porn. There is no one to really root for here and I don't know what type of 'world' these people envision from the murders. Ivy is a despicable person. Am I really supposed to believe she is terrorizing her wife, removing her from her child (and adoptive parents are every bit a parent as bio ones), leaving her with no money just because she voted wrong? And what did Ozzy do that would cause his mother to take away his other parent, allow Winter to traumatize him by showing him murder videos, allow his pet to be murdered, and allow scary clowns to haunt him. He didn't deserve anything like this (neither did Ally).

Not sure I  believe no one on earth would figure out Kai's parent's were missing-this happened often years ago but almost everyone is on some sort of social media, has a job with co-workers, has relatives, something. And would he really want to live with the rotten bodies? In regard to Beverly: I am a reporter myself, although newspaper instead of TV. Killing my editor would not allow me to publish anything I wanted-another editor would be appointed and would enforce the same policies. Even if Beverly murdered everyone at the TV station, she would still have to worry about sponsors etc. So it is nothing but a desire to show us more torture. I might watch one more episode but unless they give Ally a little fight back power, I'm out. 

I find this hilarious as Beverly's potential thought process.  It's like the kid who thinks if he only kills his parents, then he can spend the rest of his life eating ice cream, wearing dirty clothes, and not going to school....

[neptunewaves]

This episode was such a huge letdown after last week's brilliant outing. Maybe the twists would have made a bigger impact had all but one not been telegraphed since the pilot.

Did they really just undone every single intriguing characteristic of Kai presented so far? He better be acting out for Beverly's sake otherwise all that build-up was for nothing. Another scared kid with delusions of grandeur and an even bigger ego is neither interesting nor menacing, and it certainly wouldn't stand a chance against someone like Beverly. 

I couldn't help but roll my eyes at Ivy's sudden burst of "compassion" for a guy she barely knew after the psychological hell she has put her wife and child through. Whatever, Ivy, go chew on a lemon. Hopefully, Allyson will woman up and give her a dose of her own medicine. Let me dream.

Harrison and the cop have indeed gone rogue on Meadow (it's either that or Kai is moving the curtains behind Ivy and Winter's back). I hope she somehow makes it.

[Captanne]

Wow.  Okay, so.  Given the events of the past few days, maybe I should have given this show a miss for the week.  I mean, no harm to skip one.  

This episode was exceptionally cruel on all accounts.

So, maybe I'm a bit raw right now and my reaction is based on real life, speechless-leaving horror and sadness (it is) -- but while I enjoyed the plot moving forward I just couldn't cope with the brutality and outright evil.  (Plus, I'm tired of the dildo clown mask.  I thought I was stupid to begin with and I am just over it now.  It's a poor wardrobe choice, in my opinion. It removes the terror and adds the stupid.)

I'll give this one a non-discussion week.

[darkestboy]

Strong episode, definitely strong with the gory moments as that poor gimp died so horribly along with Bob and RJ as well.

Meadow, Ivy and Beverly all pose various threats to Kai and his cult. Meadow seemed to be taken out but not before she warned Ally about everything though.

The way Beverly got Kai to open up about his parents deaths was interesting but it also shows that she might end up usurping him as the season progresses too.

Ivy hates Ally and is connecting with Winter but she's still got some semblance of conscience. So did Meadow and RJ whereas Beverly. Harrison, Jack and Gary are completely sucked into it. Winter too probably.

Really hoping Ally charges into action now that she's up to speed on things, 8/10

[BlancheDevoreaux]

I was really enjoying that there seemed to be a lot less gore this season up until this episode.  For me, there didn't need to be all the blood and guts this season because the terror was based on the idea that all that is going on COULD actually happen.  Unlike in every season before this one, there wasn't a supernatural element (no ghosts, houses/hotels they held you prisoner if you died there, aliens, witches, demonic witch doctors, etc.) but instead relatively normal everyday people who were living a double life terrorizing and killing what appeared to be random people.  That's just scary.  Would like to see less torture porn and more of a psychological aspect. Evan Peters has shown me that he call pull of psychopath next door easily.  Same with Adina Porter.  Allison Pill has shown to have a significant amount of range.  I haven't seen Billie Lourde in much, but she certainly has the pedigree of a talented actress.  I'm betting she can pull off psychological terror with no problem.  He killed off Emma Roberts quickly which is a good sign since I think she is one of the weakest actors on the series. I'm hoping that this season will be like none before it and definitely saw it heading in that direction.  I'm hoping it doesn't give up truly terrifying situations to make room for the gross and repulsive.

[sugarbaker design]

25 minutes ago, BlancheDevoreaux said:

Unlike in every season before this one, there wasn't a supernatural element

I was thinking the same thing, we're five episodes in and not even a hint of the supernatural.

[FlyingEgret]

On 10/4/2017 at 0:31 AM, mamadrama said:

So we called it on Ivy being involved but what, exactly, is endgame with Ally? Why are they harassing her without killing her? What do they want out of her? 

Any chance that Kai (or Vincent) is Ozzy's biological father?  And for some unknown reason they just want Ally committed instead of killed because of that?

[connieinnc]

On 10/4/2017 at 11:32 AM, Anela said:

I don't know what a gimp is. I hated pulp fiction, so if it's something from that movie, I've forgotten a lot if what I saw. 

(US & Canadian, offensive, slang) a physically disabled person, esp one who is lame. 2. (slang) a sexual fetishist who likes to be dominated and who dresses in a leather or rubber body suit with mask, zips, and chains

[LoneHaranguer]

18 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Don't be surprised if the big twist in this year's American Paulson Story is her ending up taking over the cult and screwing up another election for the democrats by running as a Green Party candidate.

In a national context, it's probably fair to call the Green Party a cult, so if she and whatever's left of Kai's group ended the season with prominent positions in that party it would fit the theme of this season.

[JyDanzig]

17 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

So we're five episodes in and upon reflection....

I'm worried there's not going to be any real payoff for any of these storylines.

Heh!  I read this and thought: isn't that a well known risk of any AHS season?  "Nothing may pay off" should be stamped on the opening credits, surgeon-generals-warning style.

I'm pretty happy with this as a mid-season point.  Certainly much more so than I was last year, the first half of Roanake is easily and by far the worst block of  episodes AHS has ever done.  Cult is at that point where the seams in the storytelling are showing everywhere, at any minute it could all fall apart -- but it hasn't yet.  And that's kind of what I want from AHS -- chaotic excess barely held together by some crazed, outrageous narrative.

I will say this has been the funniest season.  There's always that strain of wicked humor on the show, but this year they've been leaning into that more and playing up the satire, to successfully entertaining effect.

Edited October 5, 2017 by JyDanzig

[ZoloftBlob]

JyDanzig, I do appreciate your point ;) but honestly I just like there to be... minimal coherency. In Asylum at this point we knew Lana and Kit etc were trying to get out of Briarcliff. In Freaks, we knew Dandy was problematic and that the freaks were in danger from the guy from "Hollywood. In Coven, we knew there was a witch war brewing and that the new Supreme was rising.... and here? We're still unclear what the point is. I mean if I just want murder porn, I can watch ID Discovery. I just want *some* semblance of a point here.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I was thinking the same thing, we're five episodes in and not even a hint of the supernatural.

Was there a supernatural element to Freak Show?  I'm trying to remember and can't up with one.  All the things I remember were freaky, but technically "natural".

[Anela]

49 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

In a national context, it's probably fair to call the Green Party a cult, so if she and whatever's left of Kai's group ended the season with prominent positions in that party it would fit the theme of this season.

I don't think the Green Party is a cult. That's a bit much. 

I'm also put off by the gore. I would prefer a supernatural element, as well. Real life is scarier than any horror movie, has been for a while. The only things that have put a chill up my spine, are things I wish were only fiction, or real spooky stories that people share around this time of year. I think the site Jezebel, opens up their comments around this point every year, for real stories. 

[JyDanzig]

3 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Was there a supernatural element to Freak Show?  I'm trying to remember and can't up with one.  All the things I remember were freaky, but technically "natural".

There was Wes Bentley's Edward Mordrake character, and his supernatural Halloween night visitations with other ghosts.

[Anela]

6 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Was there a supernatural element to Freak Show?  I'm trying to remember and can't up with one.  All the things I remember were freaky, but technically "natural".

Wes Bentley's character? Showing up to kill someone. He took Twisty with him. 

[Lemons]

On 10/4/2017 at 1:02 PM, iMonrey said:

While this episode did clear up quite a few questions, it raised several more. I think I now grasp the idea that Kai was never actually a Trump supporter, per se, but wanted Trump to win simply because it would sow chaos which is exactly what he needs for his agenda. However, I'm still unclear exactly what Kai's ultimate agenda is. At the end of the day, what does he hope to accomplish with this cult? 

 

I don't think he supports Trump, I think he wants to be Trump. He's running for a small time politician because that's all that's available at the moment. He's taking a page from Trump's election game plan in creating terror and making people afraid and in he comes to the rescue with tough talk, the solution to their fears. Kai stated that he went up ten points in the polls once the murders started happening. 

Kai seemed so helpless when his father was raging and saw his mother so helpless she killed herself. He probably doesn't ever want to feel like that again. He also told him mother that he was doing it for her. 

[ShadowHunter]

12 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

What kind of clown was Chaz?

I am not sure if he is one. Maybe since his hand is cut off they don't want him doing the big jobs. We only saw him at the meetings and he did help with the nailgun but that has been it.

[AnimeMania]

38 minutes ago, ShadowHunter said:

13 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

What kind of clown was Chaz?

I am not sure if he is one. Maybe since his hand is cut off they don't want him doing the big jobs. We only saw him at the meetings and he did help with the nailgun but that has been it.

Chaz could hold the camera, since he only has 3 limbs, he would make the perfect tripod.

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

There was Wes Bentley's Edward Mordrake character, and his supernatural Halloween night visitations with other ghosts.

Yes I forgot that part.  So they sort of tacked on a supernatural bit, though the supernatural didn't play any real role in the main story.

[Fable]

15 hours ago, darkestboy said:

The way Beverly got Kai to open up about his parents deaths was interesting but it also shows that she might end up usurping him as the season progresses too.

I don’t think she got Kai to open up.  Kai is feeding her what she wants, which is the illusion of believing she has equal control.  I think it is over for Beverly.  Game, Set, Match! 

[GoneGirl]

On 10/5/2017 at 0:38 PM, Dobian said:

Was there a supernatural element to Freak Show?  I'm trying to remember and can't up with one.  All the things I remember were freaky, but technically "natural".

Edward Mordrake. He was creepy for sure.

I think if you aren’t into this season because of no supernatural stuff you almost have to somewhat accept there is going to be more gore than usual. Every season has had gore, I’m not a big fan of gore and sometimes need to turn my head, but it IS AHS after all and I think the gore is expected. Maybe I’m wrong?

[ZoloftBlob]

I think gore is expected.

I just want some semblance of a coherent plot.

[Etta Place]

I am a big baby about gore (why do I watch this show? sometimes I ask myself that), and I looked away for a good portion of this episode. But of what I did see ... agreed that Ally is unbelievably dumb with leaving the lights on while she attempts to spy. It's like she's never even seen Rear Window.

I give it a 50/50 chance that Kai's story about his parents is true. It seems a little pat to me as far as an origin story goes. It is what you'd expect, and more importantly, what Beverly would expect. I'll accept it for now, but I'm not sold.

I found the timeline super difficult to follow. I think maybe because I'm not sure when the "now" of the show is. Is now now? Without being clear on that, "five weeks ago" doesn't tell me much. 

[JyDanzig]

4 hours ago, GoneGirl said:

I think if you aren’t into this season because of no supernatural stuff you almost have to somewhat accept there is going to be more gore than usual. Every season has had gore, I’m not a big fan of gore and sometimes need to turn my head, but it IS AHS after all and I think the gore is expected. Maybe I’m wrong?

 

3 hours ago, Etta Place said:

I am a big baby about gore (why do I watch this show? sometimes I ask myself that), and I looked away for a good portion of this episode. But of what I did see ... agreed that Ally is unbelievably dumb with leaving the lights on while she attempts to spy. It's like she's never even seen Rear Window.

I give it a 50/50 chance that Kai's story about his parents is true. It seems a little pat to me as far as an origin story goes. It is what you'd expect, and more importantly, what Beverly would expect. I'll accept it for now, but I'm not sold.

Watching this week, I had a moment of suddenly realizing how much this show has increased my tolerance for gore.  I used to need to look away, I would flinch or get squeamish.  This week, I'm totally at ease and looking straight at the TV for the whole thing, relaxed as can be.  I didn't realize there was even a transition underway, until I suddenly arrived at this endpoint of casual indifference.

Re: Kai's story on his parents.  I feel like it has to be true because of the POV of those flashback scenes -- since it's also functioning as the reveal of Cheyenne Jackson as the brother.  Has Beverly even met him?  If we're just seeing a lie Beverly is picturing, it doesn't make sense for that to be the vehicle that reveals this connection that's only meaningful to the audience...

(Though, of course, AHS only makes sense when it feels like it, so that could always be the explanation too)