S04.E02: Full Circle

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

With Leah still insisting that he is a monster, Lucious sneaks away in hopes of finding out what type of person he was before the explosion. Cookie panics that Lucious has gone missing on Claudia's watch, until she realizes he found his way to Uncle Eddie (guest star Forest Whitaker), a music icon who has since become family to the Lyons. Meanwhile, with Anika still behind bars, Hakeem and Tiana grow more comfortable as a family, and Becky makes a rash decision regarding Jamal's new song.

[SimoneS]

This season is so good so far. Forest Whitaker! After his flashbacks with Eddi, I am convinced that Lucious' memory loss is genuine. The nurse is clearly attempting to emotionally manipulate him. 

Cookie was so funny with the guys moving her stuff into Lucious' house. Cookie and Thirsty laughing at Anika in her prison get up was hilarious as was Cookie haranguing poor Porsha. This show is so good at finding those funny moments.

Oh no, Leah is a crazy again. I had forgotten that Leah set up Anika for Tareek's murder. I hope that she escapes and comes looking for revenge on the nurse. 

Congrats, Becky! Her toughness won over Cookie after Jamal and Hakeem made her life hellish. 

What happened to Vanessa? Is she off the show? I did love the detective reminding Andre that he couldn't get it up. Cookie sure put him in his place. I hope he doesn't try to kill her now. I didn't like Cookie's golden animal print turban or that dress at the end.

Ugh, I don't like Jamal's current fake boo. Doesn't Jamal notice that he is trying too hard? I miss D Major. However, I did like his song at the end of the episode.

[mtlchick]

Jussie and Gabby's real life friendship makes me cheese up in their first scene.  Though I think Becky eventually made the right call.  Jamal can always put his version on an album since it seems he releases a new one each month. 

Oh Mama Walker.  I am going to miss your (possibly certifiable) crazy ass. 

Terrance Howard is doing the damn thing this season so far. 

[Dee]

I LOVE THIS SHOW.

[tennisgurl]

I actually think Lucious` memory loss might actually be real now. The scattered flashbacks really make it look like his memory is a mess. Demi is doing a good job being professional, but also creepy, but subtly enough that most people wouldn't pick up on it. She is totally trying to manipulate him but I have no clue what her end game is. Replace Cookie? Add her name to his will and kill him? Working with one of the Lyons enemy's? 

Lucious is generally awful, but holy crap his mom is scary. She not only tried to drown him as a kid, she tried it again after he had brain damage! She is so messed up she got Cookie and Demi to actually team up to get rid of her. No wonder Lucious is such a mess, with a mom telling him he was possessed by evil for his whole childhood. 

Anika might be innocent of this specific crime, but she DID murder Rhonda and her and Andres unborn child, so I cant feel too sorry for her. She should be in jail, just not for this specific thing. I did enjoy Cookie laughing at her. Speaking of, I loved Cookies outfits tonight! That 60s inspired headband outfit looked wonderful! 

Go Becky! 

[wanderingstar]

Mother Walker remains cuckoo. I would not be at all surprised if she tried to escape from whatever facility they sent her to.

Cookie looked amazing throughout the episode. Ditto Becky and Porsha.

Speaking of Porsha, how has she not just thrown up her hands and walked out on Cookie. Cookie, like many bosses, takes her faithful long-suffering assistant for granted. I am rooting for Porsha to find a new gig.

Becky and Jamal are one of my OTPs for this show, so I didn't like seeing them fight, but good on Becky for getting that promotion.

LOVE seeing Teyonah Parris on this show. She and Andre should be interesting together.

And how fun was Forest Whittaker. Wonder if he'll be back this season.

Nurse Creepy irritates me.

I want to see more of Tiana & Hakeem being a little family unit with Bella, if only to see how quickly it makes Anika's head explode.

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 I did love the detective reminding Andre that he couldn't get it up.

That was amazing! I don't think Det. Rose is going to be someone Andre can run roughshod over.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[Syndicate]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

This season is so good so far. Forest Whitaker! After his flashbacks with Eddi, I am convinced that Lucious' memory loss is genuine. The nurse is clearly attempting to emotionally manipulate him. 

Cookie was so funny with the guys moving her stuff into Lucious' house. Cookie and Thirsty laughing at Anika in her prison get up was hilarious as was Cookie haranguing poor Porsha. This show is so good at finding those funny moments.

Oh no, Leah is a crazy again. I had forgotten that Leah set up Anika for Tareek's murder. I hope that she escapes and comes looking for revenge on the nurse. 

Congrats, Becky! Her toughness won over Cookie after Jamal and Hakeem made her life hellish. 

What happened to Vanessa? Is she off the show? I did love the detective reminding Andre that he couldn't get it up. Cookie sure put him in his place. I hope he doesn't try to kill her now. I didn't like Cookie's golden animal print turban or that dress at the end.

Ugh, I don't like Jamal's current fake boo. Doesn't Jamal notice that he is trying too hard? I miss D Major. However, I did like his song at the end of the episode.

With the exception of Warren, no additional DuBois family members this episode. But the episode actually worked without them. As for Jamal's new boo? See, I think he really does like Jamal. This episode really made me believe that. He's only trying to appease his tyrannical aunt Diana, and I think in the end, SHE will be the one who's disappointed.

[mtlchick]

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And how fun was Forest Whittaker. Wonder if he'll be back this season.

Like Demi Moore, he's a season long guest star.  http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/forest-whitaker-empire-season-4-fox-cast-1202500614/  

 

Quote

Whitaker will play Uncle Eddie, a charismatic music icon and bonafide hitmaker, who gave an unknown Lucious (Terrence Howard) his first radio airplay years ago. Decades later, Eddie steps up for Lucious at a critical moment during his rehabilitation, and a grateful Cookie (Taraji P. Henson) invites him to produce a song in celebration of EmpireEntertainment’s 20th anniversary.

[Vixenstud]

11 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Speaking of Porsha, how has she not just thrown up her hands and walked out on Cookie. Cookie, like many bosses, takes her faithful long-suffering assistant for granted. I am rooting for Porsha to find a new gig.

I must be the only one that doesn't find Cookie's treatment of Porsha funny, she is mean and insensitive to her every time.  Just once, I'd like for Porsha to look at her and say "You know what, Cookie?  FUCK YOU, I quit!" and then have Cookie practically break the bank to get her back on the payroll like she did for Becky.

13 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Jussie and Gabby's real life friendship makes me cheese up in their first scene.

I had that type of friendship with someone once....watching them on and off screen makes me think back to it, leaving me sad.  Love them though.

13 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Her toughness won over Cookie after Jamal and Hakeem made her life hellish.

I don't see them making her life hellish, they know what they want and IMO she should have stepped back.

FOH Claudia, with your 'I don't have anywhere to go'....then why pack and say your leaving, bitch?!  Yeah, baby's up to no good.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Vixenstud

[Dee]

Porsha getting Cookie arrested, which triggered Cookie's PTSD, and threatened with serious legal consequences mitigates Cookie being a temporarily demanding boss, imo, especially since Cookie has exhibited significant loyalty, patience and support of Porsha in every other context.

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, Vixenstud said:

I don't see them making her life hellish, they know what they want and IMO she should have stepped back.

Maybe you could make that argument for Hakeem, but Jamal was wrong and she was right for doing what she did. Empire had a client, with specific demands, that he refused to meet. Empire doesn't get paid if they'd don't deliver a song for the movie and what Becky secured was great for them because the movie studio is going to cover marketing and the cost of the music video.

Jamal had been very fortunate that he's basically had artistic freedom his entire career because of his parents. He's been allowed to scrap whole albums. That's not reality for most musicians. Sometimes you have to do what you're told. Jamal just experienced what artists like Tiana have dealt with their entire career. Most young artists don't always get to do what they want. 

[Margohill]

Good episode which got intense as time went on.

Mama Lyon trying to drown her son AGAIN in the bath tub. That was evil. I don't know what's wrong with that woman and trying to take out the evil from her son. She definitely needed to be locked up. She's given Cookie a huge ammunition by telling her she had killed Tariq and set up Anika. I will not be surprised if Cookie uses that card in the future.

Andre definitely needs some Viagra. Too bad he messed with a woman who will not put up with his nonsense. I hated the way Andre treated Nessa but he has met his match in this NYPD officer. He better be able to "get it up" the next time around.

Forrest W's presence was a delight. I hope he helps Lucious to regain his memory. I believe that Lucious is not faking his memory loss. He tried to pretend to remember stuff when he met his friend but I believe all what he knew was stuff he learned after his accident. That's why he didn't get the name of the song right. His friend had to correct him. It will be interesting to see when and how he regains his memory.

I loved the song Jamal was practicing with the orchestra band. I wish they could play that song in full. Jamal and Becky's relationship is being tested but I feel it will stand the test of time when that weasel warren is found out. Jamal's heart is too soft and he gets played constantly buy all these fake lovers. Too bad.

Becky really impressed me this episode and I was happy she finally got that job despite all the road blocks. Becky is very well suited for the job because she understands that things can't work without finances so she does whatever it takes to get the money flowing in, something Jamal just couldn't get through his head. Cookie understood why Becky had to make that decision and I'm so glad she was well rewarded for it.

I am hopping that Anika losses custody of her baby to the Lyons. She looked "evil" when she saw Tiana holding her baby. She should think about Rhonda's baby that she killed. She's lucky Thirsty weaseled her out of the mess she was in. I was very disappointed she got out. I don't think Anika has been punished enough. Threatening Cookie with the knowledge of Bunkie's murder was a big mistake. When Lucious regains his memory and finds out she knows this, she may be gone too.

Andre got burned seriously by screaming at his mother about the business decision she made. That was one of the best scenes of the night. Cokie is right. Lucious would never allow that kind of insubordination from him. I remember in S1 how Lucious would scream at Andre to get the finances together for Hakeem and Jamal's concerts and he would do it quietly and stressfully without arguing. It was funny when cookie picked up that bat. "I birthed and breastfed your ass.."...LOL!!! That was funny.

Cookie looked fabulous, and so did Becky and Porsha.

Next week's episode looks amazing.

[one4gemini]

All's I'm going to say is get rid of Demi Moore. I don't think she's right at all for Empire, she's actually ruining the show for me. You know she's trying to play "I'm up to doing something bad" her acting is real bad, in this show.

Hurry up do what your gonna do and be gone.

one4gemini

[crowceilidh]

Yeah - not too happy about Demi Moore either.

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 I did love the detective reminding Andre that he couldn't get it up.

The thing about that detective putting Andre in his place is that he had just basically insinuated that she was a slut, so it was a very appropriately toned response, I thought.  Andre is seriously misogynistic in his psychosis - all women appear to be whores or madonnas to him.

[Dee]

1 hour ago, crowceilidh said:

 Andre is seriously misogynistic in his psychosis - all women appear to be whores or madonnas to him.

All the Lyon Brothers have a healthy dose of misogyny to them.

[thuganomics85]

Sweet, Forest Whitaker!  Glad he will be on this season, even if I find him to be inconsistent at times.  When everything comes together, he can be the absolute best (his performance in The Last King of Scotland is still one of my favorites of all time), but when something is off, his acting can be.... well, something else (see: his time during that Criminal Minds spinoff.)  So far though, I'm optimistic.  He seems to have a solid footing with the character already and works well with both Terrence Howard and Taraji P. Henson.

While I understand artist integrity and not wanting to see your work taken from you, I was kind of on Becky's side on this one.  It sounded like Jamal was pretty much contracted to do a certain song, but instead of abiding by it, he kept trying to make it more about him.  And I think Becky had a point that in the long run, towing the line would have let him really do what he wanted to do later on.  Kind of reminds me of when actors or directors do certain mindless action films or whatnot, so they can later do a passion project or get the funding for other work.  And it sounded like she was able to work out her differences with Hakeem, so if Hakeem of all people is willing to meet Becky's requests, then Jamal really doesn't have an excuse.  Anyway, it seems like this was mainly to a) make Becky officially be new AD and b) push Jamal even farther into Warren's embrace.

Anika's already out of the slammer!  Say what you will about him, but Thirsty is the master at helping his clients.  I would watch the hell out of a crossover featuring him and Saul Goodman (Breaking Bad) running a firm!  But Anika's here and already hilariously glaring at Tiana holding her child.  Complete with thunder and lightning.  Never change, Empire!

No, Grandma Leah!  OK, she totally deserves to be locked up, but I will miss her crazy ass.  I hope it's just because Leslie Uggams had to do Deadpool 2 during this time, and once that is done, she'll be back with a vengeance!

Starting to think Lucious is sincere now about his memory loss and not wanted to become the "monster" again.  I suspect it will happen though.

Claudia needs to be taken out soon.

Noticed Craig Brewer directed and co-wrote this one.  I usually attend to enjoy his episodes.

5 hours ago, Dee said:

All the Lyon Brothers have a healthy dose of misogyny to them.

Really, all the Lyon men in general tend to have unhealthy views when it comes to women...

[One Tough Cookie]

I don't like  Cookie anymore.  She's hard and nasty and mean.   However I will watch Terrance Howard do just about anything and  am really enjoying this Lucius.  I wasn't sure if it was an act, but this episode solidified for me that he injury is real.

[MyAimIsTrue]

I was thrilled to see Teyonah Parris's name in the opening credits since she was great on "Mad Men" playing an unsung character, and I have a feeling she's going to be a force to be reckoned with as Det. Rose.

[Margohill]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:24 PM, One Tough Cookie said:

I don't like  Cookie anymore.  She's hard and nasty and mean.

The writing for Cookie has certainly changed from S1 where she was written as a fierce mother who would do anything to stand for her son. It almost seemed as though she got out of jail propelled by the will-power to do right by her son Jamal and make up for lost time with her boys. That was the best and most powerful portrayal of Cookie Lyon which made her extremely popular and loved by all. Over the seasons though, it seems the writers are trying to give her growth by making her more ambitious to run Empire and protect the family legacy. There has been more emphasis on making her tougher, more business savvy with less emphasis on her motherly affection. To some, that would seem more appropriate as growth for her character while to others, it makes her less likeable. It would have been nice if the writers could strike a good balance between the two extremes because the traits that were emphasized in S1 were more popular to a lot of fans. JMHO

[Dee]

Cookie has been very affectionate as a mother to her sons post-Season 1.

She's always giggling with and confiding in Jamal, she's constantly supported Hakeem's attempts at being a mogul and she's been nothing but encouraging with Andre.

The problem is the Lyon Brothers keep treating her disrespectfully, which they wouldn't do to their father, that causes her to have to reprimand them.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Dee

[Margohill]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

Cookie has been very affectionate as a mother to her sons post-Season 1.

She's always giggling with and confiding in Jamal, she's constantly supported Hakeem's attempts at being a mogul and she's been nothing but encouraging with Andre.

The problem is the Lyon Brothers keep treating her disrespectfully, which they wouldn't do to their father, that causes her to have to reprimand them.

Her affection for her son was more emphasized in S1 than any of the other seasons. Post S1, more emphasis was placed on her quest to secure her own share of Empire and get what was hers which makes sense since she had sacrificed so much for her family and the company.

The Lyon brothers disrespecting their mother makes more sense as to why she has become much tougher, maybe mean, and harder because for all she has done, she doesn't feel appreciated by her kids. Jamal was a huge disappointment when he kicked her out of the house after all she had done for him. This could explain why her attitude has shifted so. She may laugh and giggle with them but we don't see that deep affection she had with Jamal in S1 anymore at least as far as I am concerned. She tried bonding with Hakeem in S2 but I didn't feel it was quite strong. With Andre, she still hasn't really connected with him.

Anyhow, based on the events that have taken place since S1, it makes sense that Cookie has evolved to be this way. Too much disrespect from her boys and from Lucious, failed relationships she tried to secure outside of Lucious, her fight for Empire and Lucious constantly pushing her aside for other women has really made Cookie a much harder person. She still fights for her family that's for sure but all of this would wear any mother down. 

[Dee]

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Her affection for her son was more emphasized in S1 than any of the other seasons.

Not really. She was very affectionate with Jamal in Season 1 with distant and/or frosty relationships with Andre & Hakeem. Though her relationship with them began to thaw because of the takeover towards the end of the season, it was purely on a strategic level.

Quote

Post S1, more emphasis was placed on her quest to secure her own share of Empire and get what was hers which makes sense since she had sacrificed so much for her family and the company.

Cookie has been trying to secure her place at Empire since the Pilot. The only difference is she sacrificed her chosen position, Head of A&R, in Season 2 to help clean up Hakeem's mess. It was the Empire board who selected her as co-CEO. A position she was quite hesitant to accept until Lucious insisted she take it.

Quote

She may laugh and giggle with them but we don't see that deep affection she had with Jamal in S1 anymore at least as far as I am concerned.

Ever since Cookie and Jamal reconciled in Season 2, they've resumed their BFF status, so much so that Hakeem became upset because he felt she favored, and loved Jamal, more than him (which wasn't the case). She even accepted undue blame for encouraging Jamal's addiction, despite the fact that it wasn't her fault.

On top of that, she's made huge strides in bonding with Hakeem, who didn't have much use for her, beyond the hostile takeover, and Andre who largely viewed, and treated, her as a weapon.

Another reason why Cookie and Jamal's relationship isn't the same as it was in Season 1 is because Jamal has evolved, both as a person and as an artist. He no longer needs his mother to organize his life and/or hasten his artistic process.

Add in Jamal's thawing, yet still increasingly complicated relationship with his father, and you have the recipe for significant personal growth. But even with all that, Cookie and Jamal have remained each other's closest confidants.

It was Jamal who Angelo sought out for advice about wooing Cookie and it was Cookie who Jamal went to for advice on his new music. So even with Jamal producing himself and Cookie taking on added responsibilities at Empire, they still fiercely have each other's backs.

Quote

She tried bonding with Hakeem in S2 but I didn't feel it was quite strong.

It was very strong.

Cookie and Hakeem made huge strides in their relationship. When Hakeem rightfully called his Mom out for being overbearing and not treating him as an equal partner, she actually listened. And when Hakeem proved he was in it to win it & would remain loyal to Cookie, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Cookie had his back to the fullest. She even went so far as to reward his steadfast loyalty by entrusting him with the family legacy, which she wouldn't even do for Lucious; and he screwed her, and the rest of the Lyons, over by being his usual impulsive self.

And then she only resulted to corporal punishment with him, which broke her heart, when he made it clear he refused to resume the status quo. Yet once he took initiative & fixed his huge mistake, while continuing to mature, she once again supported him effusively.

15 hours ago, Margohill said:

With Andre, she still hasn't really connected with him.

Out of all her boys, Cookie's exhibited the most compassion for Andre.

She's done everything she can to support him, even though he's tossed her under the bus countless times. She's even made an effort to really think before she speaks, to avoid triggering him, which is huge for a woman who essentially holds her tongue for no one. And for all their initial distance, Cookie practically begged him to stay with her & invest in her vision, instead of returning to his father; and when Andre tried apologizing for his mistreatment of her, Cookie gave him an immediate free pass.

She was also the first person in the family he told about Rhonda's pregnancy, and he actually listened to Cookie when she advised him, albeit unsuccessfully, about how to fix things with his father. And it was Cookie he implored for advice, when he refused to lean on anyone else in the family, on how to survive Rhonda & his child's deaths.

Quote

Anyhow, based on the events that have taken place since S1, it makes sense that Cookie has evolved to be this way. Too much disrespect from her boys and from Lucious, failed relationships she tried to secure outside of Lucious, her fight for Empire and Lucious constantly pushing her aside for other women has really made Cookie a much harder person. She still fights for her family that's for sure but all of this would wear any mother down. 

Their relationships are much more complex than they were in Season 1. It's no longer as simple as Cookie/Jamal vs. Hakeem/Lucious/Anika.

The family is slowly re-learning how to function as a unit without destroying each other, and over the years their bonds have deepened and grown exceedingly complex.

It's not always pretty, and it's not always nice, but it's absolutely necessary.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Dee

[darkestboy]

Good episode. I liked the introductions for both Eddie and Pamela, both seem like they'll be interesting characters for Cookie, Lucious and Andre to interact with this season.

Leah got taken out of the mix quickly and Anika's back already? She wasn't missed to be honest.

The Jamal/Becky plot, found myself siding with Becky more though. I did like the Jamal and Warren scenes this week.

I'm guessing some sort of custody battle thing with Anika and Hakeem/Tiana will happen soon as well, 8/10

[byrd]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 11:53 AM, Margohill said:

Good episode which got intense as time went on.

Mama Lyon trying to drown her son AGAIN in the bath tub. That was evil. I don't know what's wrong with that woman and trying to take out the evil from her son. She definitely needed to be locked up. She's given Cookie a huge ammunition by telling her she had killed Tariq and set up Anika. I will not be surprised if Cookie uses that card in the future.

Andre definitely needs some Viagra. Too bad he messed with a woman who will not put up with his nonsense. I hated the way Andre treated Nessa but he has met his match in this NYPD officer. He better be able to "get it up" the next time around.

Forrest W's presence was a delight. I hope he helps Lucious to regain his memory. I believe that Lucious is not faking his memory loss. He tried to pretend to remember stuff when he met his friend but I believe all what he knew was stuff he learned after his accident. That's why he didn't get the name of the song right. His friend had to correct him. It will be interesting to see when and how he regains his memory.

I loved the song Jamal was practicing with the orchestra band. I wish they could play that song in full. Jamal and Becky's relationship is being tested but I feel it will stand the test of time when that weasel warren is found out. Jamal's heart is too soft and he gets played constantly buy all these fake lovers. Too bad.

Becky really impressed me this episode and I was happy she finally got that job despite all the road blocks. Becky is very well suited for the job because she understands that things can't work without finances so she does whatever it takes to get the money flowing in, something Jamal just couldn't get through his head. Cookie understood why Becky had to make that decision and I'm so glad she was well rewarded for it.

I am hopping that Anika losses custody of her baby to the Lyons. She looked "evil" when she saw Tiana holding her baby. She should think about Rhonda's baby that she killed. She's lucky Thirsty weaseled her out of the mess she was in. I was very disappointed she got out. I don't think Anika has been punished enough. Threatening Cookie with the knowledge of Bunkie's murder was a big mistake. When Lucious regains his memory and finds out she knows this, she may be gone too.

Andre got burned seriously by screaming at his mother about the business decision she made. That was one of the best scenes of the night. Cokie is right. Lucious would never allow that kind of insubordination from him. I remember in S1 how Lucious would scream at Andre to get the finances together for Hakeem and Jamal's concerts and he would do it quietly and stressfully without arguing. It was funny when cookie picked up that bat. "I birthed and breastfed your ass.."...LOL!!! That was funny.

Cookie looked fabulous, and so did Becky and Porsha.

Next week's episode looks amazing.

I thought Cookie was about to whip Andre's butt with that baseball bat. She has no problem beating down her grown son's when they try to disrespect her.  I remember when she beat down Hakeem's butt with a broom right after she left prison. Cookie doesn't take any crap and she's tough and still in love with Lucious.   I  can't wait until she give his nurse a beat down because I know it's coming, she's up to something.. I believe she's trying to make lucious fall in love with her. Becky deserves that promotion, she understands the business and how it all works together.. Good job.  Anika  has to pay somehow for the murder of Andre's wife. I can't believe she got away with that .  

Edited October 11, 2017 by byrd

[Dee]

7 minutes ago, byrd said:

Anika  has to pay somehow for the murder of Andre's wife.

Why? Rhonda never 'paid' for killing Vernon.

[byrd]

6 hours ago, Dee said:

Why? Rhonda never 'paid' for killing Vernon.

true, I completely forgot about that ! thanks for the reminder..

On 10/4/2017 at 8:12 PM, mtlchick said:

Jussie and Gabby's real life friendship makes me cheese up in their first scene.  Though I think Becky eventually made the right call.  Jamal can always put his version on an album since it seems he releases a new one each month. 

Oh Mama Walker.  I am going to miss your (possibly certifiable) crazy ass. 

Terrance Howard is doing the damn thing this season so far. 

Mama Walker is insane ! She'll be back, her character completes the family picture. Now I understand why it's so easy for luscious to kill people because  Mama Walker has no problem taking you out including her own son ..  I love it when the whole family are all seated around the dining room table., including the baby in her bassinette. I could never image anyone else in the role of Cookie, she plays the hell out of that character..

[Dee]

The irony is that Nana Leah swears Lucious is violent because he's inherently evil yet she's the one drowning her kid and stabbing people in the neck with letter openers.

[byrd]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 0:41 AM, Dee said:

Not really. She was very affectionate with Jamal in Season 1 with distant and/or frosty relationships with Andre & Hakeem. Though her relationship with them began to thaw because of the takeover towards the end of the season, it was purely on a strategic level.

Cookie has been trying to secure her place at Empire since the Pilot. The only difference is she sacrificed her chosen position, Head of A&R, in Season 2 to help clean up Hakeem's mess. It was the Empire board who selected her as co-CEO. A position she was quite hesitant to accept until Lucious insisted she take it.

Ever since Cookie and Jamal reconciled in Season 2, they've resumed their BFF status, so much so that Hakeem became upset because he felt she favored, and loved Jamal, more than him (which wasn't the case). She even accepted undue blame for encouraging Jamal's addiction, despite the fact that it wasn't her fault.

On top of that, she's made huge strides in bonding with Hakeem, who didn't have much use for her, beyond the hostile takeover, and Andre who largely viewed, and treated, her as a weapon.

Another reason why Cookie and Jamal's relationship isn't the same as it was in Season 1 is because Jamal has evolved, both as a person and as an artist. He no longer needs his mother to organize his life and/or hasten his artistic process.

Add in Jamal's thawing, yet still increasingly complicated relationship with his father, and you have the recipe for significant personal growth. But even with all that, Cookie and Jamal have remained each other's closest confidants.

It was Jamal who Angelo sought out for advice about wooing Cookie and it was Cookie who Jamal went to for advice on his new music. So even with Jamal producing himself and Cookie taking on added responsibilities at Empire, they still fiercely have each other's backs.

It was very strong.

Cookie and Hakeem made huge strides in their relationship. When Hakeem rightfully called his Mom out for being overbearing and not treating him as an equal partner, she actually listened. And when Hakeem proved he was in it to win it & would remain loyal to Cookie, beyond a shadow of a doubt, Cookie had his back to the fullest. She even went so far as to reward his steadfast loyalty by entrusting him with the family legacy, which she wouldn't even do for Lucious; and he screwed her, and the rest of the Lyons, over by being his usual impulsive self.

And then she only resulted to corporal punishment with him, which broke her heart, when he made it clear he refused to resume the status quo. Yet once he took initiative & fixed his huge mistake, while continuing to mature, she once again supported him effusively.

Out of all her boys, Cookie's exhibited the most compassion for Andre.

She's done everything she can to support him, even though he's tossed her under the bus countless times. She's even made an effort to really think before she speaks, to avoid triggering him, which is huge for a woman who essentially holds her tongue for no one. And for all their initial distance, Cookie practically begged him to stay with her & invest in her vision, instead of returning to his father; and when Andre tried apologizing for his mistreatment of her, Cookie gave him an immediate free pass.

She was also the first person in the family he told about Rhonda's pregnancy, and he actually listened to Cookie when she advised him, albeit unsuccessfully, about how to fix things with his father. And it was Cookie he implored for advice, when he refused to lean on anyone else in the family, on how to survive Rhonda & his child's deaths.

Their relationships are much more complex than they were in Season 1. It's no longer as simple as Cookie/Jamal vs. Hakeem/Lucious/Anika.

The family is slowly re-learning how to function as a unit without destroying each other, and over the years their bonds have deepened and grown exceedingly complex.

It's not always pretty, and it's not always nice, but it's absolutely necessary.

This family has a love/hate relationship unlike anything I have ever seen before., but when one is threatned they all feel the threat. Andre has tried on more than one occasion to take his father down because of outside influences, but in the end he always came around. It's  a struggle for Cookie to try and keep the family unit tight., because they all feel betrayed by Lucious.  

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 9:22 AM, Vixenstud said:

I must be the only one that doesn't find Cookie's treatment of Porsha funny, she is mean and insensitive to her every time.  Just once, I'd like for Porsha to look at her and say "You know what, Cookie?  FUCK YOU, I quit!" and then have Cookie practically break the bank to get her back on the payroll like she did for Becky.

I had that type of friendship with someone once....watching them on and off screen makes me think back to it, leaving me sad.  Love them though.

I don't see them making her life hellish, they know what they want and IMO she should have stepped back.

FOH Claudia, with your 'I don't have anywhere to go'....then why pack and say your leaving, bitch?!  Yeah, baby's up to no good.

I'm watching Claudia.. she's got something planned , ,I believe Lucious will end up falling in love with her because of his dependency on her.

[byrd]

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 10:06 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Mother Walker remains cuckoo. I would not be at all surprised if she tried to escape from whatever facility they sent her to.

Cookie looked amazing throughout the episode. Ditto Becky and Porsha.

Speaking of Porsha, how has she not just thrown up her hands and walked out on Cookie. Cookie, like many bosses, takes her faithful long-suffering assistant for granted. I am rooting for Porsha to find a new gig.

Becky and Jamal are one of my OTPs for this show, so I didn't like seeing them fight, but good on Becky for getting that promotion.

LOVE seeing Teyonah Parris on this show. She and Andre should be interesting together.

And how fun was Forest Whittaker. Wonder if he'll be back this season.

Nurse Creepy irritates me.

I want to see more of Tiana & Hakeem being a little family unit with Bella, if only to see how quickly it makes Anika's head explode.

That was amazing! I don't think Det. Rose is going to be someone Andre can run roughshod over.

yea the detective is a tough one , but she has a dark side, I believe she's a sex addict. I did believe her when she said she didn't know who Andre was.

Edited October 12, 2017 by byrd
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[TobinAlbers]

Cookie was shoooooooook when she learned Mama Walker was the one who took out Tariq and framed Anika. She wasn't impressed, she was a little skurred.

Okay how hilarious was it that Lucius has a bowl of popcorn on his desk when they committed his momma? Like the old Lucious was in there wanting to sit back and snack as he watched the show.

Damn, I wish I had a boss like Cookie who'd change my title and bump up my salary 30%. Sheesh.

Despite nearly killing his father, Andre was warranted to pop off like that on Cookie with a 20 albums in one year ambush and she was absolutely entitled to pop back. She is his boss and Lucious would pull that crap but pulling that crap on Andre is not a thing to emulate. And that turban wasn't doing her no favors thought, LOL.

Anika killed a woman and her baby. No sympathy for her issues now. Yeah, Rhonda killed Vernon but it was a bit more reasonable in she was defending/protecting her husband.