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These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

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58 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

TV Guide story

 

Why do I fear the 'unthinkable' is going to be raising his father from the Empty?

It would track with a "secret" Ruby knows, Lucy's number one proud self-declared flunky.

And Mark knowing the Finale would have pointed to him being in it. So you would have Lucifer and Michael!Adam. And Nougat.

I now even wonder a bit if the "Amara possesses me" from Jared would have meant either she does both or Chuck possessing Dean. Jared started to say "if we're..." then stopped himself and threw out the Amara scenario. I still think Freudian slip but he did stop himself from letting something else slip.

 

Edited by Aeryn13
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I saw that the titles of the last two eps are:

19 Inherit the Earth

20 Carry On.

Given how literal Dabb is (Jack in the Box), my guess is that spec that Jack becomes the new God and end the need for hunters is right on.

Carry on is probably about Sam and Dean trying to figure out what to do now.  My guess is Sam becomes some sort of (human) bounty hunter on the road with Eileen.  Dabb said something about it not being a rom com ending. And Dean reopening Swayze's. 

That way the writers completely flip the brothers beginnings. 

It would also fit with what Jensen said about there being a problem with the show coming back, and Dabb saying it would be "someone else's problem."

 

Edited by ILoveReading
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14 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I saw that the titles of the last two eps are:

19 Inherit the Earth

20 Carry On.

Given how literal Dabb is (Jack in the Box), my guess is that spec that Jack becomes the new God and end the need for hunters is right on.

Carry on is probably about Sam and Dean trying to figure out what to do now.  My guess is Sam becomes some sort of (human) bounty hunter on the road with Eileen.  Dabb said something about it not being a rom com ending. And Dean reopening Swayze's. 

That way the writers completely flip the brothers beginnings. 

It would also fit with what Jensen said about there being a problem with the show coming back, and Dabb saying it would be "someone else's problem."

 

Why would that ending make it hard to come back or do a movie? Both boys are alive there. 

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TVLINE | Sam and Ruby, obviously, have a complicated relationship. Do you think that she still has maybe some deeper feelings for him?
I’m sure she’ll always have fond memories of the relationship. I would think that even though he betrayed her, I think she understands that in a way, because she probably would have done the same thing. So I think she’ll probably always have fond memories of him.

How does this show always get things so backwards.  Ruby was a demon working with Lucifer.  Sam didn't betray her.    Not even close.  I can only imagine how much they are going to retcon.

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TVLINE | Since it’s been so long since we’ve seen Ruby, what can you say about what she’s been up to in that time, and how she’s changed or not in that time?
That’s a tough one, because I don’t want to give too much away in terms of when you see her. I think that you’ll definitely see her badass [side], the demon character that she plays and the toughness and stuff. We’ve seen vulnerability in different ways from her, and I think you’ll see a little bit of that as well. So that’ll be an interesting change.

Let me guess the bad ass side is her easily beating up the boys. 

The vulnerability will be poor poor mis understood Ruby.

https://tvline.com/2020/03/22/supernatural-ruby-returns-season-15-genevieve-padalecki-preview/

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Sam betrayed Ruby? Sam betrayed Ruby?!??

What in the actual fuck?  How is this guy in charge of this show? 

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam betrayed Ruby? Sam betrayed Ruby?!??

What in the actual fuck?  How is this guy in charge of thus show? 

I reluctantly read the article and it was actually Genevieve that said that, not Dabb. Although since she put it that way it's more than likely been written into the plot in those words.

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TVLINE | Sam and Ruby, obviously, have a complicated relationship. Do you think that she still has maybe some deeper feelings for him?
I’m sure she’ll always have fond memories of the relationship. I would think that even though he betrayed her, I think she understands that in a way, because she probably would have done the same thing. So I think she’ll probably always have fond memories of him.

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam betrayed Ruby? Sam betrayed Ruby?!??

What in the actual fuck?  How is this guy in charge of thus show? 

Genevieve is responding to a question, so this is the set up she's been given to create her character.  Then mix in the fact that the two actors fell in love during the season, well she won't see it the same as the fans.  This again could have been interesting with better writers, but I don't expect that we'll be happy with it like she is.

On one hand it is cool that she got to come back and was hoping to do so, but it wasn't a burning plot point that I thought they needed to finish.  I felt it was done.  So that part is on Dabb.  But if he did it to make his actors happy I can live with it.  I suspect that Jensen and Jared both liked having their wives on the set.  So for them it was something they wanted.

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Genevieve doesn't seem to remember what happened at all. Nor does Dabb, if Genevieve is saying something about Ruby's POV.

OR  she thinks Sam and Dean killing her is a betrayal. Either way, I don't want to see Ruby again.

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10 hours ago, DeeDee79 said:

I reluctantly read the article and it was actually Genevieve that said that, not Dabb. Although since she put it that way it's more than likely been written into the plot in those words.

While my question about Dabb remains valid for myriad other reasons, I should have read for myself before reacting. Mea culpa. Thanks for letting me know. :)

 

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21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

https://ew.com/tv/genevieve-padalecki-supernatural-return-ruby-interview/

Ruby was never a good demon.  She only saved them because she needed them alive.  She saved Dean as a way to trick Sam.

 

My word. The spin on making Ruby a good guy is hilariously awful. Why can't they just let her be a villain who had only ill intentions all along? They could even make it that the guys are even going to enemies to help take down the Common Big Bad named God. And sorry but Genevieve was not a good actress. Neither was Katie Cassidy who gave Ruby one note....snarky. Genevieve gave her one note...seductress without much nuance. Ugh this is so stupid. Maybe Eileen will kill Ruby lol. I wouldn't be surprised if they just go full soap opera and have them fight over Sam giphy.gif

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9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

My word. The spin on making Ruby a good guy is hilariously awful. Why can't they just let her be a villain who had only ill intentions all along?

Because that would make Sam the fool for believing her and Dean right for not trusting her at all.  This way Sam was right all along and Dean wrong.  She was led astray (by Lilith, I assume) and the boys get to feel guilty for "betraying" her.  

BTW, what's with the idea of "what she's been doing for the past 11 years."  She was dead.  Not back in hell, not plotting, but, if anywhere, in the Empty.  Unless, of course, the Empty has a revolving door somewhere not just for Cas and Jack, but for anyone who wants to go walkabout.  Which kind of negates the whole purpose of the knife and Colt, and takes away even all the Winchesters' previous "wins."  

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52 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Because that would make Sam the fool for believing her and Dean right for not trusting her at all.  This way Sam was right all along and Dean wrong.  She was led astray (by Lilith, I assume) and the boys get to feel guilty for "betraying" her.  

BTW, what's with the idea of "what she's been doing for the past 11 years."  She was dead.  Not back in hell, not plotting, but, if anywhere, in the Empty.  Unless, of course, the Empty has a revolving door somewhere not just for Cas and Jack, but for anyone who wants to go walkabout.  Which kind of negates the whole purpose of the knife and Colt, and takes away even all the Winchesters' previous "wins."  

This is what pisses me off more than anything about Ruby's "return".

Just another awesome kill of Dean's that Dabb has taken away, AFAIC. 

I was so hoping that we were only going to see her in flashbacks, but apparently(according to that article anyway), Sam brings her back.

Oh Joy.

Can't wait for yet another episode in this final season that sounds from this as if it's predominantly going to be about side characters again and some more(spouses of the actors notwithstanding), one of which I could not wait to see killed off the first time.

It just keeps getting worse.

How sad.

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2 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

This is what pisses me off more than anything about Ruby's "return".

Just another awesome kill of Dean's that Dabb has taken away, AFAIC. 

I was so hoping that we were only going to see her in flashbacks, but apparently(according to that article anyway), Sam brings her back.

Oh Joy.

Can't wait for yet another episode in this final season that sounds from this as if it's predominantly going to be about side characters again and some more(spouses of the actors notwithstanding), one of which I could not wait to see killed off the first time.

It just keeps getting worse.

How sad.

I don't think Sam brings her back. When the artivle says "Padalecki brings her back", I believe they are refering to Gen herself (she took the name after all) and it is more metaphorical aka the actress "brings" the character back. I'd say either Billie or Chuck somehow will. Probably Billie. Offscreen. For some hairbrained scheme/knowledge.

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34 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don't think Sam brings her back. When the artivle says "Padalecki brings her back", I believe they are refering to Gen herself (she took the name after all) and it is more metaphorical aka the actress "brings" the character back. I'd say either Billie or Chuck somehow will. Probably Billie. Offscreen. For some hairbrained scheme/knowledge.

I can't care who brings her back.

As a viewer of this show, I honestly just have no interest whatsoever in seeing her brought back at all, but I also know that at this point and within the present day fandom, I'm in the minority on that front.

So just another episode to slog through until the end for this fan.

But I will say this, it sure does seem(to me) as if Dabb is indeed trying to sabotage certain aspects of this show in it's/his last season, and I've never before hate-watched anything, but because of him and his cronies, that's what's happening for me more and more, with each new episode we're getting. 

So a new experience for me, albeit one that I don't think I'd ever want to go through again; and if this trajectory continues, I can well see no ending becoming far preferable to me than any kind of ridiculous drek that Dabb and co. might put out.

 

 

Edited by Myrelle · Reason: Revision
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1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

I can't care who brings her back.

As a viewer of this show, I honestly just have no interest whatsoever in seeing her brought back at all, but I also know that at this point and within the present day fandom, I'm in the minority on that front.

So just another episode to slog through until the end for this fan.

But I will say this, it sure does seem(to me) as if Dabb is indeed trying to sabotage certain aspects of this show in it's/his last season, and I've never before hate-watched anything, but because of him and his cronies, that's what's happening for me more and more, with each new episode we're getting. 

So a new experience for me, albeit one that I don't think I'd ever want to go through again; and if this trajectory continues, I can well see no ending becoming far preferable to me than any kind of ridiculous drek that Dabb and co. might put out.

 

 

I don't think it's a minority opinion. The ridiculous parade of has-beens and lol!canon retcons in this final Season hasn't really been met with praise from what I've seen. Ruby herself really doesn't have stans and I think even from Sam/Jared fans I've seen polite whateverness over her comeback.

For me the no-ending that is a possibility now is indeed not looking all that bad. Though I do believe ep 18 with the final retcon flashbacks is gonna really suck, and a title like "Truth" nonetheless, so that will be a sour note to go out on regardless.

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I'm confused.  The TVLine article above says that Sister Jo and Ruby will be back this Monday, I assume tonight's episode.  But that's also the ep with the alternate Sam and Dean, per the previews, right?  So is it an alternate Ruby they're bringing back?  (Maybe the AURuby wasn't bad?)  

My head hurts.

 

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6 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I'm confused.  The TVLine article above says that Sister Jo and Ruby will be back this Monday, I assume tonight's episode.  But that's also the ep with the alternate Sam and Dean, per the previews, right?  So is it an alternate Ruby they're bringing back?  (Maybe the AURuby wasn't bad?)  

My head hurts.

 

The two things appear unrelated. Now that Jackie'poo is back, I'd reckon he (and Cas) get the A plot. Gluby (feels time to dust off that chestnut again with the interviews) and Anael the B plot and AU!Winchesters as the comedy C-plot.

I bet they are remnants from one of the destroyed worlds because goodness gracious we're stealing that exact plot from every single show in the Arrowverse right now. I mean it is happening on these shows right now after Crisis so hey, best time to also do it. Urgh.

You know, now I wonder if the end was gonna be a swap: all Earths get brought back in exchange for planet Supernatural (and the Winchesters) going out.

 

Edited by Aeryn13
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"We fully intend bla bla" is what I would expect anyone in his position to say. Will there eventually be some finish? I believe so. Dabb's ending, written by Dabb? Maybe. Maybe not.

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18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

"We fully intend bla bla" is what I would expect anyone in his position to say. Will there eventually be some finish? I believe so. Dabb's ending, written by Dabb? Maybe. Maybe not.

I said exactly this when it was just Michaels spouting on Twitter, but Dabb is invoking the network and the studio as well, so it makes me a little less skeptical.

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1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I said exactly this when it was just Michaels spouting on Twitter, but Dabb is invoking the network and the studio as well, so it makes me a little less skeptical.

For a year or so Ben Affleck himself as well as everyone at Warners swore up and down he was still totally gonna be Batman. When it had long since been decided by everyone he wouldn`t return. Dabb name-dropping the network and studio means nothing to me. Even if Pedowitz or New-Pedowitz or whoever runs WB TV right now, still Mark Roth? said the same thing, I wouldn`t  put too much stock into it. It might be all true now but things can change with the passage of time.

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1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I said exactly this when it was just Michaels spouting on Twitter, but Dabb is invoking the network and the studio as well, so it makes me a little less skeptical.

There is no doubt they will finish the episodes--all involved want to and Jared's WALKER is on the CW...he certainly wants to as does the CW.  They'll find a work around.  All the guys want to finish it.  Absolutely will be done as we all will eventually see.

Edited by Jakes
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They may finish but how many will decide to finish it?  I need to cut bills.  I'll have to get rid of cable  so maybe I'll see what happens on Netflix?  or not.

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10 minutes ago, Jakes said:

There is no doubt they will finish the episodes--all involved want to and Jared's WALKER is on the CW...he certainly wants to as does the CW.  They'll find a work around.  All the guys want to finish it.  Absolutely will be done as we all will eventually see.

     Walker might be the problem for this happening soon. Paramount wouldn't even let Henry Cavill shave his mustache for Justice league so there is no way they will delay filming to help the WB. There is also no way they can film on the old contracts and Canada could be closed for month. We don't even know when California will be off lockdown and the country could be completely shut down when it does. So we are looking optimistically at a year for this to be filmed. So if the WB is willing to put out that kind of money for new crews, sets and contracts then this will be a movie.     

      All of this begs the question are they going to use Dabb's script. On the plus side they wouldn't have to pay for a new script but on the negative it will be extremely hard to film as written. I said before that this situation will finally show what is going on behind the scenes. J2 now has all the power. There is no movie without them. They can decide what script to film and who the director is. All the crew members Jensen worried about have finished their contracts so there is no excuse now. If he films the ending as written with Dabb's involvement then there was no behind the scenes drama and he now really is satisfied with the ending. If the current writers are gone and new people handle the movie with a new script then what many Dean fans have suspected will be proven right. 

      So the good news is we will get an ending at some point. We will get the next 5 episodes without them trying a makeshift ending. Plus Jensen fans should be happy that he isn't doing something he doesn't want to do in the final 2 episodes.

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9 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

They may finish but how many will decide to finish it?  I need to cut bills.  I'll have to get rid of cable  so maybe I'll see what happens on Netflix?  or not.

If it's (still) on the CW, you can probably get it on broadcast TV with an antenna (that's what I do.)  Otherwise, the CW app has the shows for a week or two after they air.  

 

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17 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

     Walker might be the problem for this happening soon. Paramount wouldn't even let Henry Cavill shave his mustache for Justice league so there is no way they will delay filming to help the WB. There is also no way they can film on the old contracts and Canada could be closed for month. We don't even know when California will be off lockdown and the country could be completely shut down when it does. So we are looking optimistically at a year for this to be filmed. So if the WB is willing to put out that kind of money for new crews, sets and contracts then this will be a movie.     

      All of this begs the question are they going to use Dabb's script. On the plus side they wouldn't have to pay for a new script but on the negative it will be extremely hard to film as written. I said before that this situation will finally show what is going on behind the scenes. J2 now has all the power. There is no movie without them. They can decide what script to film and who the director is. All the crew members Jensen worried about have finished their contracts so there is no excuse now. If he films the ending as written with Dabb's involvement then there was no behind the scenes drama and he now really is satisfied with the ending. If the current writers are gone and new people handle the movie with a new script then what many Dean fans have suspected will be proven right. 

      So the good news is we will get an ending at some point. We will get the next 5 episodes without them trying a makeshift ending. Plus Jensen fans should be happy that he isn't doing something he doesn't want to do in the final 2 episodes.

Frankly I see it differently--the CW works with WB and both shows are on the CW...they'll do a work around.  I don't think Dabb is lying even if a bunch on here hate him(I don't)...the show will finish with Dabb's script as all the studios involved want it to.  Don't think it will be a movie--they will finish the last 2 episodes while also polishing up the last 5 before them and show them probably 7 in a row.  Do I think it will take a year at earliest 2 be filmed?  No.  Think it will be a lot sooner but even taking your long view--they'll still get the last 2 filmed as written.  

I personally have no doubts.  To each their own.

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5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don't think it's a minority opinion

I hope you're right. 

I'm just so over and done with Dabbernatural.

And tbh, the only actor/character whom I have any interest in, as this show winds down, is, of course, JA/Dean(the "of course" is for those at this site who know me and my long held preferences).

So I can't help but wonder how Jensen, and honestly?-only Jensen feels- about still filming Dabb's final scripts even if contracts expire and need to be renegotiated due to the pandemic.

And especially if he also has another  project waiting for him in the wings. 

And Jensen, himself, has not said one word, anywhere, pertaining  to this that I  have seen-unless I missed it; and if so, by all means, do tell to anyone who has access to that scoop. 

 

Edited by Myrelle · Reason: Revision
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Jensen could end up being a wild card.  We don't know what he might be doing.  If for example he signed a contract with Sony (this is a hypothetical example, not a hint of anything), he may not be allowed to film for the WB.

I think they have every intention of filming but its hard to make a firm commitment with so many things up in the air.

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2 hours ago, Jakes said:

Frankly I see it differently--the CW works with WB and both shows are on the CW...they'll do a work around.  I don't think Dabb is lying even if a bunch on here hate him(I don't)...the show will finish with Dabb's script as all the studios involved want it to.  Don't think it will be a movie--they will finish the last 2 episodes while also polishing up the last 5 before them and show them probably 7 in a row.  Do I think it will take a year at earliest 2 be filmed?  No.  Think it will be a lot sooner but even taking your long view--they'll still get the last 2 filmed as written.  

I personally have no doubts.  To each their own.

My major issue from the beginning is I think Dabb has screwed over Jensen and Dean and probably did so in the Finale given Jensen's statements. It's hard to tell at this point if he is being a team player or if he really is happy with the Finale. I am fine if they film the last 2 episodes and Dabb gets to end the series if Jensen is happy with it. So any filming after the contract expires proves that the ending has Jensen's blessing and I can live with that.

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39 minutes ago, Lastcall said:

So any filming after the contract expires proves that the ending has Jensen's blessing and I can live with that.

I’m not sure I’d go all the way with it proving that he’s happy with the ending. There are other factors to consider. Like he may have already resigned himself to the ending they created and since it’s already written he might not want to “make waves” by having it be rewritten with the other one thrown out which would be an obvious outright slam about Dabb and Co. There might also be an issue with not being able to nail down the writer(s) they WOULD prefer to write it so just taking what’s already been done. They might also have a time crunch that wouldn’t allow for them to have someone else write it. I don’t know, I just don’t think if they go through with this script that it necessarily changes how Jensen feels about it and I wonder if we will ever know or if he will keep it contained. 

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11 minutes ago, desiresrisked said:

I’m not sure I’d go all the way with it proving that he’s happy with the ending. There are other factors to consider. Like he may have already resigned himself to the ending they created and since it’s already written he might not want to “make waves” by having it be rewritten with the other one thrown out which would be an obvious outright slam about Dabb and Co. There might also be an issue with not being able to nail down the writer(s) they WOULD prefer to write it so just taking what’s already been done. They might also have a time crunch that wouldn’t allow for them to have someone else write it. I don’t know, I just don’t think if they go through with this script that it necessarily changes how Jensen feels about it and I wonder if we will ever know or if he will keep it contained. 

It would be interesting if someone (or the fandom) could contact Ben Edlund or Robbie Thompson or any of the best SPN writers and suggest that they write the finale they'd want while they're stuck in quarantine.  Maybe make a book (ebook) out of it--all the ways the writers would have wanted the series to end.  I'm sure most of the fandom would buy it!  (Of course, they'd have to have the network's blessing for it--and, I assume, the Writer's Guild--but why not give the fans something to do/read/buy during lockdown.)  😊

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(Of course, they'd have to have the network's blessing for it--and, I assume, the Writer's Guild--but why not give the fans something to do/read/buy during lockdown.)

Wasn't the Writers Guild already planning a strike this spring, or am I completely misremembering things because of Coronavirus Fatigue?

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27 minutes ago, Demian said:

Wasn't the Writers Guild already planning a strike this spring, or am I completely misremembering things because of Coronavirus Fatigue?

I think they were talking about it, but don't think anything was officially decided.  Of course it's all moot now--it's hard to walk off on strike when you're not working.  

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13 hours ago, desiresrisked said:

I’m not sure I’d go all the way with it proving that he’s happy with the ending. There are other factors to consider. Like he may have already resigned himself to the ending they created and since it’s already written he might not want to “make waves” by having it be rewritten with the other one thrown out which would be an obvious outright slam about Dabb and Co. There might also be an issue with not being able to nail down the writer(s) they WOULD prefer to write it so just taking what’s already been done. They might also have a time crunch that wouldn’t allow for them to have someone else write it. I don’t know, I just don’t think if they go through with this script that it necessarily changes how Jensen feels about it and I wonder if we will ever know or if he will keep it contained. 

One of Jensen's main goals was to protect his show family and give them a year to find new jobs and transition out of the series. He accomplished that, anything he does now is for the fans and his own personal closure. He already warned the Dean fans they might not like what they plan to do and to take some time to process it and maybe come around. He has been a good promoter for the show and has tried to be as positive as possible but its impossible to know what the real story is. Jensen was in a position where he agreed to finish the show without knowing the ending. It required him to trust the writers and honor his contract. Now the tables have turned, he knows the ending and its up to him if he wants to sign off on it. So if he does then he is ok with the ending and ok with how the Dean fans will react. Again, I can live with that.

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20 hours ago, Myrelle said:

And Jensen, himself, has not said one word, anywhere, pertaining  to this that I  have seen-unless I missed it; and if so, by all means, do tell to anyone who has access to that scoop. 

 

Around Vegas Con timeframe he said he decided to read the last script out loud and couldn’t do it because it was too emotional.  

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14 hours ago, SueB said:

Around Vegas Con timeframe he said he decided to read the last script out loud and couldn’t do it because it was too emotional.  

Yes, I saw that.

I was wondering more about how he felt concerning filming the last two episodes after contracts have expired.

 

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6 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Yes, I saw that.

I was wondering more about how he felt concerning filming the last two episodes after contracts have expired.

 

That, and just because it was emotional for him, doesn't mean it is 'good' for Dean or even for the Winchesters. It's going to be emotional to read the ending to a 15 year journey whether or not you like the way it ends, or think it's good, or anything else. It's still the end. 

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Shutting down for an unspecified period for Covid 19 is something unprecedented, though. The CW, probably like a lot of other channels, is going to be more or less making this up as they go along.

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ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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