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These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

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3 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Or Ruby tells Sam she really did love him and was secretly working for the angels (till they betrayed her and thus Sam)  so he was right to trust her.  And nothing he did was his fault.  (And *then* Dean has to apologize both for not trusting her or believing Sam and for killing her.)

And if he'd "believed" Sam or "trusted" him (as I've seen some fans complain Dean didn't), the only thing that would have changed in season 4 was that Dean would have become complicit in releasing Lucifer.  Something I'm sure some fans would have been thrilled to be able to say afterward.

 

Edited by Lemuria
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What a mess this season has become.  I really don't need to see all this stunt casting for the next 9ish episodes.  It doesn't make up for 4 years of botched show running.  What a way for the show to go out. ☹️

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5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Or Ruby tells Sam she really did love him and was secretly working for the angels (till they betrayed her and thus Sam)  so he was right to trust her.  And nothing he did was his fault.  (And *then* Dean has to apologize both for not trusting her or believing Sam and for killing her.)

*gag* I'm already furious with all of the ways that they've destroyed Dean bit by bit but if anything remotely close to this happens I may not even be able to watch the reruns because I'll be too pissed off to enjoy them.

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I really,  REALLY! hope that Ruby's return does not become all about whitewashing her role in releasing Lucifer.

I don't see how given the big speech she gave, but this is Dabbernatural. 

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The episode is called Destiny's Child.

Maybe Ruby was pregnant with Sam's child.  Sam's son is the thing that died with Ruby and the task Cas asks Jack to do is go to hell and retrieve Sam's son.  That would be just the kind of thing Dabb would do.

Edited by ILoveReading
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1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

The episode is called Destiny's Child.

Maybe Ruby was pregnant with Sam's child and the thing Cas asks Jack to do is go to hell and retreive Sam's son.  That would be just the kind of thing Dabb would do.

Oh gods, I bet you are correct. And if that is the case then that child will be the new Jesse the anti Christ, right? Which should make him more powerful than Jack? Or at least as powerful? So they could end up killing Chuck together. And then they end up  with a potential battle between Jack and a possible Sam Spawn then it will be Swan Song 2.0. where does Dean fit in all this?

I have no use for Ruby or Sister Jo nor do I care if they share the screen together. Sigh.

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1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Oh gods, I bet you are correct. And if that is the case then that child will be the new Jesse the anti Christ, right?

Its my friend's theory but it makes sense.   But if its a daughter,  This child would be the new Darkness (filled with Sam's purity, of course. ) Then Jack becomes the new light, AKA God. this could also explain why Amara possesses Sam, so he can kill her and sacrifice himself so his child can be the new darkness. 

Together they make a stepford world. 

Dabb did say they didn't change their planned ending, just how they got there.  

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

where does Dean fit in all this

In Jensen's own words, he doesn't. 

 

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I have no use for Ruby or Sister Jo nor do I care if they share the screen together. Sigh.

Same.  I love Danneel but Sister Jo serves absolutely no story purpose.

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18 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Its my friend's theory but it makes sense.   But if its a daughter,  This child would be the new Darkness (filled with Sam's purity, of course. ) Then Jack becomes the new light, AKA God. this could also explain why Amara possesses Sam, so he can kill her and sacrifice himself so his child can be the new darkness. 

Together they make a stepford world. 

 

There aren't enough gag emojis in the world to fit this.  

I did have the idea that if this were to happen, Sam's child would be a daughter.  I wasn't thinking about the Darkness, though, just that Dabb wants to prove that he's not misogynistic.  ETA: Or because the network wants more young sexy women.

25 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

where does Dean fit in all this?

He's the drunken screw-up uncle.  

Of course, nobody will remember that Ruby was an empty vessel--no soul; so in theory, no soul to pass on to an offspring.

 

Edited by ahrtee · Reason: Additional thought.
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I think Destiny's child refers to Jack. And Ruby's big secret will be some random ass-pull about defeating Chuck where nothing makes sense. But it will be "because plot" reason. If Sam ends up with a kid, he will have one with Eileen by the end.

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23 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Its my friend's theory but it makes sense.   But if its a daughter,  This child would be the new Darkness (filled with Sam's purity, of course. ) Then Jack becomes the new light, AKA God. this could also explain why Amara possesses Sam, so he can kill her and sacrifice himself so his child can be the new darkness. 

Together they make a stepford world. 

Oh sorry, i didn't mean to imply it would be a son, more that the child would be as powerful as Jesse.

Ugh, I hope you are wrong.

To make it worse, what if Dean is the one that has to some how kill Sam and Amara to make it all complete and then Dean kills himself because you know ....Dabb. I don't think Jensen would appreciate that kind of ending for Dean. I think he's fine with Dean dying to save the world but not out of grief or something.

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20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

To make it worse, what if Dean is the one that has to some how kill Sam and Amara to make it all complete and then Dean kills himself because you know ....Dabb. I don't think Jensen would appreciate that kind of ending for Dean. I think he's fine with Dean dying to save the world but not out of grief or something.

Wouldn't suicide negate the whole "AKF" message they're promoting?  I think it's more likely that they'd go with the "keep grinding" motto, even with the idea that Dean will be miserable for the rest of his life.  

Edited by ahrtee

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36 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Wouldn't suicide negate the whole "AKF" message they're promoting?  I think it's more likely that they'd go with the "keep grinding" motto, even with the idea that Dean will be miserable for the rest of his life.  

It hasn't stopped them from having Dean kill himself at least twice in the past few seasons (Red Meat & Advanced Thanatology). Yes I know those were done for other purposes but he was also pretty bereft when he did both acts.

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56 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It hasn't stopped them from having Dean kill himself at least twice in the past few seasons (Red Meat & Advanced Thanatology). Yes I know those were done for other purposes but he was also pretty bereft when he did both acts.

IA they always have Dean being suicidally reckless (going way back to season 3 at least, not to mention selling his soul in the first place), but always with the idea that it's heroic, and "for a higher purpose." (Plus, the two you mentioned were specifically with ways in place to revive him, and so not meant to be permanent--not that Dean would have minded if they were.)  But I don't think anyone on the show wants to promote the Romeo-and-Juliet romantic "can't live without him/her" reason to a teen/YA audience.  Plus that would be the final act of the show, which would romanticize it even more.  Just a bad idea in general (not that that has stopped Dabb before...)

ETA:  Deliberately sacrificing himself to save Sam (or someone else), sure.  Killing himself after the fact, nope.  I don't think the network would allow it.

Edited by ahrtee
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5 hours ago, ahrtee said:

But I don't think anyone on the show wants to promote the Romeo-and-Juliet romantic "can't live without him/her" reason to a teen/YA audience. 

There were many reviewers and online discussion that Red Meat was already the Romeo and Juliet version.  I wasn't one of them.  My point is more the show has already played on the edge with Dean.  And IMO he wanted to die by werewolf before he killed himself in Red Meat to talk to Billie. 

I still wouldn't put it past Dabb to do it regardless of the AKF stuff. 

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On 3/4/2020 at 12:10 PM, ahrtee said:

IA they always have Dean being suicidally reckless (going way back to season 3 at least, not to mention selling his soul in the first place), but always with the idea that it's heroic, and "for a higher purpose." (Plus, the two you mentioned were specifically with ways in place to revive him, and so not meant to be permanent--not that Dean would have minded if they were.)  But I don't think anyone on the show wants to promote the Romeo-and-Juliet romantic "can't live without him/her" reason to a teen/YA audience.  Plus that would be the final act of the show, which would romanticize it even more.  Just a bad idea in general (not that that has stopped Dabb before...)

ETA:  Deliberately sacrificing himself to save Sam (or someone else), sure.  Killing himself after the fact, nope.  I don't think the network would allow it.

He essentially killed himself in Love Hurts and he wanted to be the one to.do The Trials in season 8 because he knew they meant certain death. It's established that he is the one that sacrifices himself because he believes he should be the one to die. It happens with alarming frequency. I would argue that he understood exactly what the process in HJ for losing probably was before it was revealed which is why he insisted that he was doing it. He plays dumb however he misses nothing

 

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On 3/4/2020 at 10:19 AM, catrox14 said:

Oh gods, I bet you are correct. And if that is the case then that child will be the new Jesse the anti Christ, right? Which should make him more powerful than Jack? Or at least as powerful? So they could end up killing Chuck together. And then they end up  with a potential battle between Jack and a possible Sam Spawn then it will be Swan Song 2.0. where does Dean fit in all this?

I have no use for Ruby or Sister Jo nor do I care if they share the screen together. Sigh.

And Crowley,  Lucifer and Kentucky Fried Demon Prince never said Boo about this.

Sorry but the "antichrist" child only had powers after Lucifer was risen. No Lucifer... no Apocalypse... no powerful child. That was the canon.

Oh wait. The Nepotism duo just makes stuff up.

???

Edited by Castiels Cat

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Uh..Soprano's?

So some fans have deciphered "When the final chord of the song plays"

Edited by Casseiopeia
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Man this is not what I want to hear

Who needs to be redeemed?  Besides Chuck.

Edited by Casseiopeia
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39 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Oh this would so suck

 

 There is no reason for Mark P to see the script unless he's in it.  FML

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Watching the afternoon panel, Jared said something about how he likes emotional scenes that are retrospective and we would see more of that soon.  (at least that is what it sounded like, the audio wasn't the greatest.  So I wonder if the finale is going to be little more than a clip show with This is your life Sam Winchester. 

I don't really see Dean factoring into the finale much.

This, IMO, fits with the spoilers we've gotten.  Dean saying 'stop killing my people.'  A heavy emotional scene that Jared isn't in at the end of ep 18. 

I feel like Dean will call Amara in ep 18, she'll decide he sold her a lemon with this whole family thing and wants nothing to do with him.  Ep 19 will be pretty much be a repeat of Swan Song with Amara possesseing Sam.  (To specific to be a random slip) and him taking out God and dying in the process. 

Episode 20 will be Sam in a coma and Dean will be his spirit guide who has to convince him to let go by reminding him how awesome he is.

IMO, there is a reason they had Dean say Sam was better at him then everything.   

Edited by ILoveReading
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11 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I don't really see Dean factoring into the finale much.

If your prediction comes true, I'll never watch the last two seasons again and no I will not think it was a good ending.  Since I'm not planning on a good ending, with "Endings are Hard" done in season 5...to do a Swan Song repeat will suck.

What I don't get is why Jensen would put his stamp approval on the ending.  It would have been far better that he said nothing if he didn't really like it.  So much for them making sure this last season was well done. 

I do hope I can be surprised, but the doubts are way too strong for me.

 

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12 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Watching the afternoon panel, Jared said something about how he likes emotional scenes that are retrospective and we would see more of that soon.  (at least that is what it sounded like, the audio wasn't the greatest.  So I wonder if the finale is going to be little more than a clip show with This is your life Sam Winchester. 

I don't really see Dean factoring into the finale much.

This, IMO, fits with the spoilers we've gotten.  Dean saying 'stop killing my people.'  A heavy emotional scene that Jared isn't in at the end of ep 18. 

I feel like Dean will call Amara in ep 18, she'll decide he sold her a lemon with this whole family thing and wants nothing to do with him.  Ep 19 will be pretty much be a repeat of Swan Song with Amara possesseing Sam.  (To specific to be a random slip) and him taking out God and dying in the process. 

Episode 20 will be Sam in a coma and Dean will be his spirit guide who has to convince him to let go by reminding him how awesome he is.

IMO, there is a reason they had Dean say Sam was better at him then everything.   

🤢

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Between Jake coming back as Michael, Lucifer's potential return, Alex saying his favorite moment in the finale (which means Jack has a key role), Castiel having powers, Jack being super charged, and Sam potentially being possessed by Amara, what is Deans' role going to be in finale?

I don't mean in a bitch/jerk kind of way, but a genuine question?  How does Dabb prevent Dean from getting lost?

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30 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Between Jake coming back as Michael, Lucifer's potential return, Alex saying his favorite moment in the finale (which means Jack has a key role), Castiel having powers, Jack being super charged, and Sam potentially being possessed by Amara, what is Deans' role going to be in finale?

I don't mean in a bitch/jerk kind of way, but a genuine question?  How does Dabb prevent Dean from getting lost?

Why would Amara need to possess Sam? 

This is looking like the failed finale of S11 and S12 and S13 and S14.  A confusing script that Dabb revised many times in the last few months.  In other words a giant mess. I think Jensen signed off on it because he has moved on.

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14 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

This is looking like the failed finale of S11 and S12 and S13 and S14.  A confusing script that Dabb revised many times in the last few months.  In other words a giant mess. I think Jensen signed off on it because he has moved on.

Agree. It's clear from the SPNVegas vids that Jensen is nostalgic and will miss his friends and co-workers and Dean, but I'm 100% certain the ship has sailed with regard to any 'love' for the show as it is.

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1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Why would Amara need to possess Sam?

 They will need help  to defeat God. There was a spoiler that Dean was going to call Amara.   Then they established that Dean thinks Sam is better at him than everything,   There had to be a reason for that.  Back at comic con Jared's "if Sam was possessed by Amara" is far to specific to be random.  Why would that even cross Jared's mind when his character never really associated Amara?  The only explanation that makes sense is that Jared was told that this would happen.

I still see the finale as being a thinly veiled Swag Song 2.0.

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Michael is back? So maybe he takes over heaven and Jack is free to live a lollipop life with Cas. Lucifer back as well? Super-meh.

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Sorry, I can't help but see red when it's even mentioned that Jake Abel will be back as Michael.

Fuck the writers of this show sideways x 10 for the way they fucked over Jensen in that role from S5 onward and even and especially with how Dabb fucked him over in s14.

That will forever be the biggest Fail on the part of the writers and showrunners of this show to me-and yes, even including Kripke-who lost all his luster for me with the ending of S5.

I just want this show to be over with already, at this point.

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13 hours ago, 7kstar said:

If your prediction comes true, I'll never watch the last two seasons again and no I will not think it was a good ending.  Since I'm not planning on a good ending, with "Endings are Hard" done in season 5...to do a Swan Song repeat will suck.

What I don't get is why Jensen would put his stamp approval on the ending.  It would have been far better that he said nothing if he didn't really like it.  So much for them making sure this last season was well done. 

I do hope I can be surprised, but the doubts are way too strong for me.

 

I don't see myself EVER watching the final 2 seasons again even if I do like the finale. They've just been too awful. 

My local CW is not airing on my cable provider right now, so I've lost track. When are the next new sucky episodes starting up again?  Thanks in advance.

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2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

How does Dabb prevent Dean from getting lost?

What makes you think he does?  Or doesn't want him out of the picture?  

Dean is the one to call Amara, and then stands around looking angsty as everyone around  him plays their part.  Maybe he can make some nachos for everyone.  More likely he just gets drunk.

1 minute ago, Bali said:

When are the next new sucky episodes starting up again?  Thanks in advance.

Eps start again this Monday, March 16.

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On 3/11/2020 at 9:07 AM, ILoveReading said:

IMO, there is a reason they had Dean say Sam was better at him then everything.

I hated that line with the fire of ten thousand suns because yeah, you just know that it was writing on the wall for Sam to yet again have the BDH role solely to himself again and yes, just as happened in S5.

Yuck! Yuck!! And YUCK!!! if all we're in store for is Dean as strictly and only anyone's/everyone's capeholder again and this time in the Series Finale. 🤮

 

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11 minutes ago, Bali said:

When are the next new sucky episodes starting up again? 

An episode written by Glynn and Berens and directed by Speight, featuring Ninja Kaia Sue Wayward. 

Sucky isn't even going to begin to describe this episode.

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13 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

What makes you think he does?  Or doesn't want him out of the picture?  

Dean is the one to call Amara, and then stands around looking angsty as everyone around  him plays their part.  Maybe he can make some nachos for everyone.  More likely he just gets drunk.

Eps start again this Monday, March 16.

Thank you. 

Well, they would deserve nachos after ridding the world of Chuck's awful writing so never underestimate the importance of nachos.

But in all truthfulness, I wish I was looking forward to the end because I thought it would be an awesome sendoff. Instead, I just feel like it's going to end, and I won't miss it because it has lowered my expectations so much that I no longer look forward to it. 

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SUPERNATURAL
“Last Holiday” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-14, LV) (HDTV)

MAKING UP FOR LOST TIME - Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) discover a wood nymph (guest star Meagan Fey) living in the bunker who is determined to protect her family, at any cost. Eduardo Sanchez directed the episode written by Jeremy Adams (#1514).

Original airdate 3/30/2020.

Wasn't this the ep about the guy with the manners problem?

Also how can Sam and Dean be living in the bunker for 8 years and not notice someone was living in the bunker?  I swear its Dabb's purpose to make them look bad.

https://www.spoilertv.com/2020/03/supernatural-episode-1514-last-holiday.html

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Seriously? A nymph has been secretely living there? Alongside Dean, Sam, Cas, Jack, Chuck, Lucifer, a whole gaggle of Sam's flunkies - everyome has been living there for a time. Yet noone noticed?

At this point if simply no new episode aired and they just declared that the show simply ended in a footnote, it wouldn't be a big deal either. Probably for the best.

I will not miss it as it is now at all. Will miss the memory of Dean. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I will not miss it as it is now at all. Will miss the memory of Dean. 

This so much.

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On 3/11/2020 at 11:37 PM, ILoveReading said:

Watching the afternoon panel, Jared said something about how he likes emotional scenes that are retrospective and we would see more of that soon.  (at least that is what it sounded like, the audio wasn't the greatest.  So I wonder if the finale is going to be little more than a clip show with This is your life Sam Winchester. 

I don't really see Dean factoring into the finale much.

Ugh I wish you hadn't pointed that out - any kind of clip show would probably be a pretty safe bet against potential cast/crew/production isolations & shutdowns too, so it might end up even worse than they intend 😕

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3 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

Ugh I wish you hadn't pointed that out - any kind of clip show would probably be a pretty safe bet against potential cast/crew/production isolations & shutdowns too, so it might end up even worse than they intend 😕

I assume those kinds of scenes will be in the episodes with the young Winchester flashbacks to their first retcon hunt where whatever pivotal thing happens. Which will lead to "bla bla introspective scene bla bla". 

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4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Also how can Sam and Dean be living in the bunker for 8 years and not notice someone was living in the bunker?  I swear its Dabb's purpose to make them look bad.

Well, they lived there for a year and didn't even know there was a garage till Dorothy showed them. 😊 

But yeah, I call bullcrap.  

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On 3/13/2020 at 5:46 AM, Aeryn13 said:

Seriously? A nymph has been secretely living there? Alongside Dean, Sam, Cas, Jack, Chuck, Lucifer, a whole gaggle of Sam's flunkies - everyome has been living there for a time. Yet noone noticed?

At this point if simply no new episode aired and they just declared that the show simply ended in a footnote, it wouldn't be a big deal either. Probably for the best.

I will not miss it as it is now at all. Will miss the memory of Dean. 

 

Maybe she was a wood nymph and just blended into all of the woodwork. Dabbler and Hacks have no understanding of ongoing mytharc or character arcs so it's throw everything at the wall.

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On 3/12/2020 at 8:50 AM, ILoveReading said:

Between Jake coming back as Michael, Lucifer's potential return, Alex saying his favorite moment in the finale (which means Jack has a key role), Castiel having powers, Jack being super charged, and Sam potentially being possessed by Amara, what is Deans' role going to be in finale?

I don't mean in a bitch/jerk kind of way, but a genuine question?  How does Dabb prevent Dean from getting lost?

Dean is there for the OPT moment.

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I would honestly prefer that they just stop now before Jack comes back.  I'd rather have it going out with the boys at least in the forefront rather than all hail the returning hero Jack (and Adam, and Lucifer, and whoever else they plan to drag in to take center stage.)  Maybe I just won't watch Monday.  (Oh, who am I kidding?) ☹️

 

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https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-season-15-series-finale-preview/?PostType=image&UniqueID=F31A7632-67CD-11EA-ACAC-ECAD96E8478F&TheTime=2020-03-16T21%3A34%3A43&ServiceType=twitter&ftag=COS-05-10aaa3b

Jared, Jensen, Misha and Alex on the finale. 

I wonder what Jensen meant by "Jared takes the reins on this one"

Also when asked about what relationships they would explore with Dean, Jensen once again has to tap dance around the answer 'none"

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7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-season-15-series-finale-preview/?PostType=image&UniqueID=F31A7632-67CD-11EA-ACAC-ECAD96E8478F&TheTime=2020-03-16T21%3A34%3A43&ServiceType=twitter&ftag=COS-05-10aaa3b

Jared, Jensen, Misha and Alex on the finale. 

I wonder what Jensen meant by "Jared takes the reins on this one"

Also when asked about what relationships they would explore with Dean, Jensen once again has to tap dance around the answer 'none"

On the bright side, it makes me less sorry that we may never see it filmed.

Okay, now that I've actually watched it, lol... I'm sure Jensen meant Jared was going to hold the reins in the relationship dept (Eileen), no romance for Dean. It seems like this was filmed a while ago (the Christmas antlers?) so who knows what has changed since then.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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8 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-season-15-series-finale-preview/?PostType=image&UniqueID=F31A7632-67CD-11EA-ACAC-ECAD96E8478F&TheTime=2020-03-16T21%3A34%3A43&ServiceType=twitter&ftag=COS-05-10aaa3b

Jared, Jensen, Misha and Alex on the finale. 

I wonder what Jensen meant by "Jared takes the reins on this one"

Also when asked about what relationships they would explore with Dean, Jensen once again has to tap dance around the answer 'none"

So the s5 finale one more time.

Oh Joy.

Yeah, hopefully we'll never have to be subjected to it. 🤞

 

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20 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

On the bright side, it makes me less sorry that we may never see it filmed.

Okay, now that I've actually watched it, lol... I'm sure Jensen meant Jared was going to hold the reins in the relationship dept (Eileen), no romance for Dean. It seems like this was filmed a while ago (the Christmas antlers?) so who knows what has changed since then.

Yeah, I think you're right after watching it, too.

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I remember back in the dark ages when I used to visit the defunct IMDb message boards.  Five minutes after a new episode aired there could be 75 messages to read. We all were so passionate back then.

Those days are long gone. 

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TV Guide story

 

Quote

Meanwhile, Castiel (Misha Collins) asks Jack (Alexander Calvert) to do the "unthinkable" in order to help the brothers.

Why do I fear the 'unthinkable' is going to be raising his father from the Empty?

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ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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