These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[catrox14]

7 hours ago, NougatJack said:

You know I love Jack screentime, but they should stop hurting him the whole time.   Just leave him alone. 

They love themselves some hurt! Woobie! Jack. It's so stupid

[Myrelle]

On 7/31/2019 at 3:43 PM, Aeryn13 said:

If this is the end, the writers should have fits by now. I mean, slip of tongue or not, it's out there and too specific too be hand-waved. Also not a miniscule spoiler but would be their twist ending. 

For the writers this should be like that dude who put Endgame footage up on the internet from the private screening in Saudi Arabia before the movie came out. Marvel and Disney were super not amused by it.

Jensen only gave away something insofar as saying the story was very final. So even if Dean also ended up possessed, I doubt he would let it slip what the final scene of the show is like that. Apparently the car will be there, he gave away that. And it will be just the brothers.

Btw, found it here

Definitely not a joke. He says "whetther or not we`re alive or dead or if we -" here he actually catches himself from saying what "we" aka they do - then he goes on with "or if Amara possesses me or ..."

If the Amara possession was just for the world-saving heroics part of the episode and afterwards Sam would either be dead or still alive and bla bla, it wouldn`t fit with what he goes on about. My money right now is on "oblivion". 

Which would be a bad ending but at least I could deal with it if both go out contributing equally and heroically. 

I'm wondering if it's possible that Amara is going to "become one" with both of the brothers in the finale, and if that's what JP is calling "possession".

That was her thing while she was on the show and there was that one time when she was that close to "possessing" Dean and we were never given an explanation as to why she didn't/wouldn't or could have.

The big question would be what would happen to their bodies in that case.

Is it possible that she might suck their souls out of their bodies right before their bodies expire/die?

Everyone who she did that to experienced great "peace", didn't they?

And that was her whole pitch to Dean and the biggest reason why she felt that they should become "one".

[Aeryn13]

So at SDCC Jared went on and on about how he liked the ending because the guys found some peace and he specifically said he didn`t want an open ending where they kept hunting because then he wanted to see them hunting. 

Now at the TCA both him and Jensen talked about maybe retuning to those roles further down the line. 

That sounds like an ending that has "finality" to it but can be undone easily enough if they wanted to make a TV movie or something later on. Would still fit with my "possession" theory where I don`t believe it will be actual possession so much as whatthefuckever they are gonna pull. 

Also Jensen said something about thinking how Kripke`s original ending when it was planned to end after 5 Seasons might have still fit the show. So, not 5.22 but what would have happened if they didn`t get renewal .  Now I always thought that original ending was supposed to be Dean kills Sam because he couldn`t save him but that would go against anything anyone has said about the ending. Doesn`t fit with Jared, doesn`t fit with the producers, doesn`t fit with Jensen. So I think he means ending as in both brothers would have housed Michael and Lucifer and played out the final scene among them.  

Now, was Jensen sneaky here and laying a breadcrumb for a Finale where that kinda happens, just not with Michael and Lucifer but with God and Amara? Obviously, the set-up for that was more in Season 11 because God and Amara are no longer enemies but I guess they could easily retcon that crap again.

From the "the journey should feel like it was worth it" from Singer/Dabb, I think it`s gonna be something like "the brothers manage some big win in the end to make the world safer so even though it`s kinda sad how they end up, viewers should take heart in their accomplishment bla bla". 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Aeryn13

[SueB]

On 8/2/2019 at 1:53 PM, foxfreakinmulder said:

I have to say, reading all these post about the ending makes me really sad. Not sad the show is ending (although I am) but sad that it doesn't look like J & J are going out the way they wanted the brothers story to end. Instead of going out in a blaze of glory they are going out in a blaze of monkey poo being thrown at them.

It's infuriating that the stupid producers/writers don't give a fork that these 2 guys gave fans 15 years of their lives to entertain us.

I'm a fan of both Sam and Dean and think both are handsome guys but damn Jensen is so beautiful I'm going to miss him on my tv.

The writers literally pitched the end state to J2 and they've generally signed off on how the show ends.  Jared's thrilled, Jensen took a while to come around but now seems very happy with it.  So, they've definitely consulted the two.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

The writers literally pitched the end state to J2 and they've generally signed off on how the show ends.  Jared's thrilled, Jensen took a while to come around but now seems very happy with it.  So, they've definitely consulted the two.

From the interviews, I'd say 'consulted' is too generous a description. Seems more like they told them how it was going to be. Jared loved it, Jensen had to be convinced and is now on board with the party line. That really doesn't sound like collaboration to me.

Edited August 6, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

From the interviews, I'd say 'consulted' is too generous a description. Seems more like they told them how it was going to be. Jared loved it, Jensen had to be convinced and is now on board with the party line. That really doesn't sound like collaboration to me.

Consulting and collaboration are really quite different.  Consulting, in this case, IMO, is more like 'Here is what we intend to do' vs "collaboration" which IMO is more like ' Here is what we are planning and we actively want your input on how this happens and should it even happen the way we envision'

[Myrelle]

I think what happened is what they feared.

They were told how it was going to end, asked what they thought of it, but it didn't really matter what they thought because "Dabb does whatever he wants."- I think those were pretty  much Jensen's exact words back when they were promised input into the ending.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Consulting and collaboration are really quite different.  Consulting, in this case, IMO, is more like 'Here is what we intend to do' vs "collaboration" which IMO is more like ' Here is what we are planning and we actively want your input on how this happens and should it even happen the way we envision'

I understand the words. Just saying consulting implies at least some measure of discussion,  some back and forth. Nothing they've said indicates to me that they were anything other than told how it was going to be. That's not any definition of consulting that I know of. 

[Aeryn13]

And Jensen "coming around" doesn"t inspire confidence. First instinct is usually correct and once you have to convince yourself of something, it's usually not good. There are exceptions but not much.

Also agree they weren't consulted, they were told. If Jensen didn't like it till the day after shooting, not a damn thing would change. He would have no input regardless.

[catrox14]

6 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I understand the words. Just saying consulting implies at least some measure of discussion,  some back and forth. Nothing they've said indicates to me that they were anything other than told how it was going to be. That's not any definition of consulting that I know of. 

I wasn't suggesting you didn't know. Sorry if my comment implied otherwise. I was agreeing with you and expanding with my own thoughts as to why I don't think consulting meant at all here that they were really particularly involved in the decision making process wrt to the series end much less collaborating closely.

[SueB]

I think they had veto power. They didn't excercise it.  

If Jared and Jensen hated it, it wouldn't go on.  In this case 'everyone' (including Jared) loved it.  Jensen felt comfortable enough to tell us he wasn't sure immediately but now is excited about it.  

I do find it interesting there's a slightly different vibe at the TCAs than SDCC.  More discussion, at least between J2, have occurred I think.  

But it IS different than what was implied last spring.  Last spring they said they were going to be invited into the writer's room to see the storyboard.  That may have been exactly what happened but it feels more like a single day and a bit of a pitch meeting to them rather than tossing ideas around back and forth.  The boys saw the breakdown of the first half of the season and got the 'end state' vision.  Seems to me they left the meeting with Jared on board and Jensen unsure.  A week later, after phone calls, Jensen was sure it was a good ending.  

Now, if J2's opinion didn't matter at all:
1) there would have been no meeting
2) Jensen taking a week to let it settle wouldn't have been mentioned

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Oh God!  You don't think that Dean is going to become Chuck (the Light) and Sam is going to become the Amara (the Darkness) in order to keep the balance in the universes?

20 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Kind of, yes. It will be utterly weird and random but something in the ballpark.

Edited and moved to BvJ. This is so hard when spoiler talk is involved. Sigh.

Edited August 8, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[ILoveReading]

It's good to see Jensen and David filming together.  But do we really need Jack there? I'm so tired of this character and the season hasn't even started.

[trudysmom]

On 8/8/2019 at 9:45 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh God!  You don't think that Dean is going to become Chuck (the Light) and Sam is going to become the Amara (the Darkness) in order to keep the balance in the universes?

I don't have words to express how much I hate this idea.

[Aeryn13]

9 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

It's good to see Jensen and David filming together.  But do we really need Jack there? I'm so tired of this character and the season hasn't even started.

Yes, is there no reprieve from him? 

[Castiels Cat]

On 7/31/2019 at 11:24 AM, ahrtee said:

“I feel like Sam and Dean find some version of peace. Whether or not that’s alive or dead, or if Amara possesses me or whatever the situation is, I feel like they find more peace than when the season starts.”

The other part of the quote (bolded):  Of course, when the season starts they're (supposedly) surrounded by zombies, Chuck is done with them and the world is about to end.  Anything would be more peaceful than that.

And if anyone gets possessed by Amara, of course it has to be Sam, because Dean's been "inoculated" against her (or something), the way he couldn't take on the MoC again.  Sheesh.  Way to hand out backhanded compliments, gang. 'You're too strong, so you don't get to fight.'

OTOH, at least it won't be Jack.  

Does that mean J2 liplocks because Amara liked kissing Dean.

Amara possessing Sam makes so little narrative sense that it has to happen in a nepotism dup episode because ... lalalala... they don't seem to pay much attention to canon, mytharc, characterization or plot.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:09 PM, Myrelle said:

I think what happened is what they feared.

They were told how it was going to end, asked what they thought of it, but it didn't really matter what they thought because "Dabb does whatever he wants."- I think those were pretty  much Jensen's exact words back when they were promised input into the ending.

I have heard serious rumors that the nepotism duo has been running things since last season and they were the ones that ditched Dean's storyline because Ms. Ex. Prod. writes for how she feels any given day and cannot be bothered to remember things like canon and seasonal plotlines. They have driven off most of the seasoned talent and are calling the shots. Dabb is there in name only.  Dabb was devastated that Wayward Sisters was not picked up and mentally checked out in 14. That is apparently the inside con gossip or so it is whispered. 

I tend to buy into these whispers because Dean had a cohesive storyline until it vanished suddenly despite it being a major textual plot point. The nepotism dup is notorious for introducing LOL canon like reapers being Angels as well as episodes that are tone deaf to the seasonal mytharc as well as containing  off characterizations of major characters. And there has been an exodus of senior writing staff.

Singer should never have hired his wife.

[Castiels Cat]

On 8/3/2019 at 10:09 PM, Myrelle said:

I'm wondering if it's possible that Amara is going to "become one" with both of the brothers in the finale, and if that's what JP is calling "possession".

That was her thing while she was on the show and there was that one time when she was that close to "possessing" Dean and we were never given an explanation as to why she didn't/wouldn't or could have.

The big question would be what would happen to their bodies in that case.

Is it possible that she might suck their souls out of their bodies right before their bodies expire/die?

Everyone who she did that to experienced great "peace", didn't they?

And that was her whole pitch to Dean and the biggest reason why she felt that they should become "one".

Hmm... it has been a while but I thought she could not do it to Dean because of their bond. I think she understood him because he was her gateway to human emotions and she knew he wouldn't want it, therefore she didn't want it with him.

[Castiels Cat]

On 7/23/2019 at 12:19 AM, Res said:

How sad is it that the only spoiler we got about the boys is that they "aren't on the same page". Again. This is the final freakin season of an epic show and the best that Dabb/Singer can do to stir up the audience is that. SMH! <sigh> 

Other than just being one of those people who have to finish things, I have a feeling this final season will be much the same as LOST was. 

Except now it seems they are trying to mirror Charmed which had way more build up for it than this show does.

My spec is that Jack is the one that clears out all the big stuff, bringing forth the paradise he foretold to Cas. Which also will prove Cas right for believing in him all these 3(?) years. Or at least peace from hunting and revamping Heaven into true paradise again. 

Hopefully, Amara, Michael and Death are on hand to help Jack close the Gates of Heaven and Hell from interfering so much with humanity. I'm sure the Brothers will help out in some way but the heavy lifting will come from Jack and the others. This time Amara will give a gift to Sam since Dean was wrong about befriending "socio"-Chuckles and return Eileen from the grave. Or maybe Death will, whatever. 

So Sam and Eileen will continue the Men/Women of Letters while Dean tends bar because as someone noted above all the major crap has been handled by Jackie-boy and the others. 

What reason does anyone who actually watches for Dean Winchester have to watch this season again? Oh, yeah, he's the eye candy of the screen and comic relief when they need it. 

Because I have an unhealthy compulsion to finish things, I probably will watch unfortunately but I will definitely check here first to prepare and it won't be any kind of must watch it was pre-Dabb. Yes, Carver was much, much better than this, imho. In fact, he's probably the best and at least tried to loosen their reigns on each other. I admire him for at least that. 

I really want Melania's " I Don't Care. . . DO U?" Jacket. 

That's how I feel after the season 14 finale and well everything after "Ouroboros".

Chuck as the big bad... sure... he's a dick. But that graveyard scene was gratuitous schlock. And I  am dreading season 15 because the Nepotism duo is running things. It will end with a whimper not a bang.

Jensen is being professional. Jared always is excited about his storylines. The fact that they have so little to say speaks volumes. 

[ILoveReading]

Unless I'm mixing up set reports (entirely possible).  It seems episode 2 is going to have

Dean, Sam, Cas, Jack, Amara, Rowena ,Ketch, unknown season 7 guest star, and Chuck*  These writer aren't good at telling one story let alone 9 of them.  This is exactly the one thing I didn't want from this season.  Guest star, after guest star after guest star, with no actual story. 

*I'm not sure Chuck has been seen on set but with the high probability of the guest star being Becky, and Amara there it makes sense that Rob will also be in this episode.

Edited August 22, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Castiels Cat]

On 8/5/2019 at 1:10 PM, Aeryn13 said:

So at SDCC Jared went on and on about how he liked the ending because the guys found some peace and he specifically said he didn`t want an open ending where they kept hunting because then he wanted to see them hunting. 

Now at the TCA both him and Jensen talked about maybe retuning to those roles further down the line. 

That sounds like an ending that has "finality" to it but can be undone easily enough if they wanted to make a TV movie or something later on. Would still fit with my "possession" theory where I don`t believe it will be actual possession so much as whatthefuckever they are gonna pull. 

Also Jensen said something about thinking how Kripke`s original ending when it was planned to end after 5 Seasons might have still fit the show. So, not 5.22 but what would have happened if they didn`t get renewal .  Now I always thought that original ending was supposed to be Dean kills Sam because he couldn`t save him but that would go against anything anyone has said about the ending. Doesn`t fit with Jared, doesn`t fit with the producers, doesn`t fit with Jensen. So I think he means ending as in both brothers would have housed Michael and Lucifer and played out the final scene among them.  

Now, was Jensen sneaky here and laying a breadcrumb for a Finale where that kinda happens, just not with Michael and Lucifer but with God and Amara? Obviously, the set-up for that was more in Season 11 because God and Amara are no longer enemies but I guess they could easily retcon that crap again.

From the "the journey should feel like it was worth it" from Singer/Dabb, I think it`s gonna be something like "the brothers manage some big win in the end to make the world safer so even though it`s kinda sad how they end up, viewers should take heart in their accomplishment bla bla". 

God and Amara do not need vessels.

Maybe they need a dream team to go up against God and both brothers become the true vessels and fight together. Sam dies because Jensen cries so well and somebody needs to maintain baby. And Dean has sooo many bromances to maintain these days.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Castiels Cat

[catrox14]

So here is some wild spec:

Chuck isn't Chuck nor Metatron. He's a heretofore unknown twin. I mean if he can have a sister why not an evil twin? I am placing this is my official spec as to how they get out of this and not keep Actual!Chuck as the Big Bad. And it would be right in DabBlemmSinger wheel house of stupidity.

[Aeryn13]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So here is some wild spec:

Chuck isn't Chuck nor Metatron. He's a heretofore unknown twin. I mean if he can have a sister why not an evil twin? I am placing this is my official spec as to how they get out of this and not keep Actual!Chuck as the Big Bad. And it would be right in DabBlemmSinger wheel house of stupidity.

I think Chuck is Chuck, they might just give him one of their ridiculous "redemption" arcs. 

[ukgirl71]

I saw speculation that "Chuck" was maybe the Empty - don't think so myself, but I liked the possibility, because for me it would be the only way of 'excusing' a previously likeable character's complete character transformation.

[PAForrest]

22 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Unless I'm mixing up set reports (entirely possible).  It seems episode 2 is going to have

Dean, Sam, Cas, Jack, Amara, Rowena ,Ketch, unknown season 7 guest star, and Chuck*  These writer aren't good at telling one story let alone 9 of them.  This is exactly the one thing I didn't want from this season.  Guest star, after guest star after guest star, with no actual story. 

*I'm not sure Chuck has been seen on set but with the high probability of the guest star being Becky, and Amara there it makes sense that Rob will also be in this episode.

I thought unknown season 7 guest star (aka most likely Becky) and Chuckles were in episode 4, the one Jensen directed. Then everyone else you named is in episode 2. Could be wrong, but I'm guessing unknown season 7 guest star (aka most likely Becky) is a one-off.

As for Chuckles, I think he's Chuckles. I mean, Chuckles has always been an asshole, so it's unfortunately not that much of a stretch that he graduates to malignant narcissist. Plus, he's supposed to be the ultimate writer mouthpiece, and, well, you understand where I'm going with that. In other words, it fits.

We'll see soon enough, obviously, but I don't think there's any reason for Amara to return if Chuckles isn't Chuckles.

[gonzosgirrl]

4 hours ago, ukgirl71 said:

I saw speculation that "Chuck" was maybe the Empty - don't think so myself, but I liked the possibility, because for me it would be the only way of 'excusing' a previously likeable character's complete character transformation.

I wouldn't hate this. My immediate spec was that 'Chuck' was really Gabriel/Trickster who somehow escaped the AU (because we all know 'death' means absolutely nothing on this show now), and was pissed at being left behind. But I could also see this scenario. Honestly, I'm highly skeptical that Show will leave cute/cuddly Rob/Chuck as the ultimate villain. So either he's not really Chuck, or there will be a change of heart/redemption  for him in the end.

[ILoveReading]

I think Chuck is Chuck. Because to make him something/someone else would require effort and thought. 

It seems the only effort Dabb is putting into this season is squeezing as many guest stars in as possible.

[Lastcall]

On 8/21/2019 at 5:42 PM, Castiels Cat said:

I have heard serious rumors that the nepotism duo has been running things since last season and they were the ones that ditched Dean's storyline because Ms. Ex. Prod. writes for how she feels any given day and cannot be bothered to remember things like canon and seasonal plotlines. They have driven off most of the seasoned talent and are calling the shots. Dabb is there in name only.  Dabb was devastated that Wayward Sisters was not picked up and mentally checked out in 14. That is apparently the inside con gossip or so it is whispered. 

I tend to buy into these whispers because Dean had a cohesive storyline until it vanished suddenly despite it being a major textual plot point. The nepotism dup is notorious for introducing LOL canon like reapers being Angels as well as episodes that are tone deaf to the seasonal mytharc as well as containing  off characterizations of major characters. And there has been an exodus of senior writing staff.

Singer should never have hired his wife.

I’ve never heard anything close to this before but it makes a lot of sense. I could never figure out why after years of being a Sam fan boy he would brutalize the character so badly in the second half of 14. The timeline tracks, I still think the botched Michael plot is what killed the show. The cheap way they got rid of Michael, the death of Sams minions, UberNick beating Sam to death and the death of Mary are all things that seemed like Dabb would never do which I can totally see the duo doing. If this is true then 15 is going to be a train wreck of epic proportions. 

[catrox14]

From the spoilera thread

Sounda like Perez wrote the ep Jensen directed. Makes me think Dean will have limited screen time given Perez's ability to leave characters fully off screen for large swaths of time as is. I really hope it gives Jensen some good directing stuff.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

From the spoilera thread

Sounda like Perez wrote the ep Jensen directed. Makes me think Dean will have limited screen time given Perez's ability to leave characters fully off screen for large swaths of time as is. I really hope it gives Jensen some good directing stuff.

Ugh. Jensen's episode is the one thing I've worked up some enthusiasm for. I should have known better, lol.

[gonzosgirrl]

How is it that we're about 5 weeks away from the final season of an epic series and there is no buzz, no excitement, nothing from the network people or the social media people or even the main cast? I'm talking nothing in the way of real storyline spoilers, BTS pics, nothing.

Edited September 3, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[ILoveReading]

36 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

How is it that we're about 5 weeks away from the final season of an epic series and there is no buzz, no excitement, nothing from the network people or the social media people or even the main cast? I'm talking nothing in the way of real storyline spoilers, BTS pics, nothing.

I don't think there is anything to spoil.  I don't think they planned anything other than Jack and guest stars. 

They've already spoiled most of the guest stars. 

Last week, apparently, Jared and Jensen only filmed Monday and Tuesday, so how much of episode 3 will they actually be in.  It seems more Rowena focused.  I guess she needs her closure.

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

How is it that we're about 5 weeks away from the final season of an epic series and there is no buzz, no excitement, nothing from the network people or the social media people or even the main cast? I'm talking nothing in the way of real storyline spoilers, BTS pics, nothing.

I've been looking and there is zero buzz about the upcoming season.  The only thing I read recently was another account of Dabb's interview at SDCC. One of the people at the table said he was serious about that 35%. He is committed to telling the story he wants to tell and if it pisses off the fans (or the stars) he doesn't give a s**t.

[PAForrest]

11 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

I've been looking and there is zero buzz about the upcoming season.  The only thing I read recently was another account of Dabb's interview at SDCC. One of the people at the table said he was serious about that 35%. He is committed to telling the story he wants to tell and if it pisses off the fans (or the stars) he doesn't give a s**t.

I never thought he was kidding when we first heard him say that. Given Jensen's not so glowing feelings about the finale, I think it was just further confirmation that Dabb meant it.

It's certainly disheartening to hear that the Js' filming time is still very limited, even in this last season. There's no way this final season can be remotely about the Winchesters when the Js aren't filming. And I'm sure that's just the way Singer and Dabb want it to be.

Edited September 4, 2019 by PAForrest

[7kstar]

2 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

've been looking and there is zero buzz about the upcoming season.  The only thing I read recently was another account of Dabb's interview at SDCC. One of the people at the table said he was serious about that 35%. He is committed to telling the story he wants to tell and if it pisses off the fans (or the stars) he doesn't give a s**t.

So the 15-year series will go out with a whimper, wonder how that will help Dabb's career...or if it will hurt it more than he realizes???  Seriously, how do you keep something on the air if you only write to the 35% ?

[gonzosgirrl]

It isn't just Dabb, unless we lay the lack of enthusiasm by the cast and the social media people at his feet (which I'm fine with doing). Today, the Twitter and FB accounts are tweeting about yet another show that isn't Supernatural. Even if they don't have a story to tell, they've been filming for a couple months now. There should be something they could share, if they cared to.

[ILoveReading]

12 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It isn't just Dabb, unless we lay the lack of enthusiasm by the cast and the social media people at his feet (which I'm fine with doing). Today, the Twitter and FB accounts are tweeting about yet another show that isn't Supernatural. Even if they don't have a story to tell, they've been filming for a couple months now. There should be something they could share, if they cared to.

Other than Ruth posting a few instastories, I've seen nothing.

[ILoveReading]

Quote

After finding out that God has been manipulating them, Dean and Sam are facing an “existential crisis” in the 15th and final season. “They’re realizing, ‘Well, we’re the Winchesters, but were we really doing this Chuck’s way?'” co-showrunner Andrew Dabb previews. “Part of reclaiming that agency is a big part of the season for them.” Plus, the brothers are “going to start to lose people who, in past seasons, we would’ve never lost — and lose them in a very real way. Our guys are going to realize there’s a certain finality, and some of the things they’ve relied on to get through the day — people, talents, things like that — they are no longer going to be able to roll out. And that’s going to throw them for a loop.” The show’s swan song will also welcome back some departed faces, including the Winchesters’ half-brother Adam (Jake Abel), God’s sister Amara (Emily Swallow) and deceased hunter Eileen (Shoshannah Stern).

BONUS SPOILER!: Jack is still in The Empty when Season 15 starts, and “he’s not coming back in the near future,” Dabb reveals. As for the deal Cas made to save Lucifer’s offspring, “when The Empty becomes more active, a lot of things are going to come to a head.”

RETURN DATE: Thursday, Oct. 10 at 8/7c (The CW)

https://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-2019-season-premiere-spoilers/young-sheldon-fall-tv-preview-2019/

Bolding mine

So much for the was it us or God debate.  In typical Dabb fashion, he spoils it.  Not only that but if God has been manipulating everything since the beginning, it renders the entire series pointless since we've been watching Chuck's story, not Sam and Dean's.

How I loath Dabb. 

Also it sounds like Dabb either thinks five minutes in "the near future" or Jack is a sent by Billie to spy on Dean or Dean's feeling guilt and having hallucinations.   If Dean is feeling guilty than him being mad at Cas makes no sense since that means he's more upset about Jack then Mary.

It also sounds like every guest star we encounter will probably not survive the episode.

If they are doing that can all the waywards be killed off screen please. 

Did I mention I loath Dabb.

Edited September 4, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Casseiopeia]

But we already know that Jack is back in the 3rd or 4th episode.  Jared kind of already spoiled that at Vancon. He made it sound like everyone already knew it and that Jack was interacting with the guys.

The only thing new (at least to me) is that Shoshana is going to be back.

I think Dabb has never forgiven the fans for Bloodlines/WWS failure. Chuck/God is Dabb's way of telling us it's his story not Jared and Jensen's, not the fans and not any previous showrunner or creator. And he also knows that no one can stop him from doing whatever the hell he wants.

Is it obvious that I also loathe Dabb?

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

"Plus, the brothers are “going to start to lose people who, in past seasons, we would’ve never lost — and lose them in a very real way. Our guys are going to realize there’s a certain finality, and some of the things they’ve relied on to get through the day — people, talents, things like that — they are no longer going to be able to roll out. And that’s going to throw them for a loop.”

My first reaction to this was: are you kidding?  They've already lost everyone they've ever cared about (except for Jody, Donna and the WS --and maybe Garth--at the moment), and even though quite a few have returned it *should* have felt "real" and final to the boys at the time.  How many times can they weep over Cas or Bobby or each other, even knowing that *this time* it should be permanent.  

But then I started thinking--"losing people who, in past seasons, we would've never lost" might not be their loved ones/allies, but maybe the ones they're trying to save?  And "the things they've relied on" like talents--maybe that's their hunting skills?  After all, if all their SpecialSkillz were because Chuck wrote them, and he's no longer deus-ex-machina-ing things their way, maybe now they're going to have to start from scratch and relearn/practice all the skills they took for granted--like fighting or research/hacking expertise without any celestial upgrades.  

I'm not sure I'd enjoy watching the Winchesters acting like klutzes with things they used to do effortlessly, but at least that has more potential than anything we've heard so far.  Except that Dabb would probably have the boys be totally useless and Jack training them.  Or just doing all the fighting for them.  *sigh*

[Casseiopeia]

44 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Except that Dabb would probably have the boys be totally useless and Jack training them.  Or just doing all the fighting for them.  *sigh*

In the SDCC TVGuide magazine the picture of Alex is a full page. No one else got that kind of exposure. This season is going to be Jack's story. Maybe Alex is being groomed for his own CW show?

[Cambion]

44 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

But then I started thinking--"losing people who, in past seasons, we would've never lost" might not be their loved ones/allies, but maybe the ones they're trying to save?  And "the things they've relied on" like talents--maybe that's their hunting skills?  After all, if all their SpecialSkillz were because Chuck wrote them, and he's no longer deus-ex-machina-ing things their way, maybe now they're going to have to start from scratch and relearn/practice all the skills they took for granted--like fighting or research/hacking expertise without any celestial upgrades.  

I don't think the current writers are up to such subtleties, based on the past couple of seasons.  Everything has been pretty straight forward and anything it seemed like they were trying to keep secret and reveal in small doses has generally been either telegraphed right away in the story, or blabbed about in an interview.  

And Jack's not going to be back for a "long time"? Even if we hadn't already seen BTS with him in it, I'd still have given them until the end of ep 2 at the latest before we saw him again.

I feel like crying sometimes.  Since I'm so new to it, it sometimes feels like the greatest bait and switch ever.  😞

[gonzosgirrl]

Lordy, I was lamenting no publicity. Careful what you wish for,  huh?

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, Cambion said:

I don't think the current writers are up to such subtleties, based on the past couple of seasons.  Everything has been pretty straight forward and anything it seemed like they were trying to keep secret and reveal in small doses has generally been either telegraphed right away in the story, or blabbed about in an interview.  

And Jack's not going to be back for a "long time"? Even if we hadn't already seen BTS with him in it, I'd still have given them until the end of ep 2 at the latest before we saw him again.

I feel like crying sometimes.  Since I'm so new to it, it sometimes feels like the greatest bait and switch ever.  😞

Oh, I'm pretty sure the writers have no concept of subtlety.  I'm afraid it might be more like a comedy of incompetence:  the boys trying to fight and finding that they've lost their best moves, including missing easy shots and being too clumsy to fight without injuring themselves, so they have to relearn (from Jack and/or AU Bobby?)  

But yeah, that's too clever, and it's probably just that they're going to bring back all the "past favorites" and then kill them off so the boys can grieve (again).  That seems more likely with this group.  

They're not even "bait and switch" this year.  That was the last few years.  This year they're going straight to "It's the last year and so you're gonna watch anyway (and we don't have to worry about being renewed) so I don't give a damn what you think."

[Cambion]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

They're not even "bait and switch" this year.  That was the last few years.  This year they're going straight to "It's the last year and so you're gonna watch anyway (and we don't have to worry about being renewed) so I don't give a damn what you think."

Not even just this year.  I've been watching the early years again and it was so much better than the last couple years of aborted main plots and rambling no reason for them sub plots that take over the season.  My only hope is the attitude of you'll watch whatever I give you will work against those people and that in the end, they stay unemployed.  

Oh, and re this:

"Oh, I'm pretty sure the writers have no concept of subtlety.  I'm afraid it might be more like a comedy of incompetence:  the boys trying to fight and finding that they've lost their best moves, including missing easy shots and being too clumsy to fight without injuring themselves, so they have to relearn (from Jack and/or AU Bobby?)"

I will not be able to buy that whatsoever.  It's not a great predicament to put characters in who have been nearly unbeatable heroes for years (which of course means that's what will happen *eye roll*), AND it's just not believable that a marine with a bronze star trained them and they're only good cause Chuck thinks it would be funny?  Nah, my money is on Chuck, being the writer, threw them out just as he did in the supposedly countless other universes and with our version of Sam and Dean all the tumblers clicked and they stood out so Chuck took notice.  Cause if he really wanted them dead, BOOM!, lightening bolt.  No, he wants to throw as much sh*t at them as he can because they've already exceeded his expectations.  They've been the perfect product of the dice he threw when creating them and now he wants to see just how far they can go when he dumps everything on them.

But, the above will only exist in my mind, because I'm pretty sure this is not the kind of thing the writers would come up with, let alone do, cause they'd have to refrain from having the baby man save the day.  sigh

As Dean said, "how many opportunities has God [the writers] had to crack this pinata, and I don't see any candy on the floor, do you?"

Edited September 5, 2019 by Cambion

[ILoveReading]

9 hours ago, ahrtee said:

But then I started thinking--"losing people who, in past seasons, we would've never lost" might not be their loved ones/allies, but maybe the ones they're trying to save?  And "the things they've relied on" like talents--maybe that's their hunting skills?  After all, if all their SpecialSkillz were because Chuck wrote them, and he's no longer deus-ex-machina-ing things their way, maybe now they're going to have to start from scratch and relearn/practice all the skills they took for granted--like fighting or research/hacking expertise without any celestial upgrades.  

I wouldn't put it past Dabb to have all the resurrected monsters kill all the people they saved in the past.  Why not completely erase Sam and Dean's legacy?

I wold really dislike if they went this route and said that all Sam and Dean's skills came from Chuck.   Because it would keystone cops. Plus even if Chuck made all the decisions, Sam and Dean still read the books, learned the lore, and learned how to handle weapons.  There is no believeable reason why they'd suddenly be incompetent, especially since the Waywards picked up a gun and were instant marksmen.

[PAForrest]

On 9/4/2019 at 10:44 PM, ahrtee said:

They're not even "bait and switch" this year.  That was the last few years.  This year they're going straight to "It's the last year and so you're gonna watch anyway (and we don't have to worry about being renewed) so I don't give a damn what you think."

As soon as it was clear that the Js weren't going to be as involved, or involved at all, in the storytelling decisions like they claimed they wanted to be, I knew spite and pettiness was going to be Dabb and Singer's theme for season 15. Because you're right, they know they have 20 episodes regardless of whether or not anyone watches or if they go down to 0 in the shares. Hey, it never hurt Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

So again, Dabb's claim of making 30% of the fans happy is deadly serious, and that 30% - except it's not really even that much, just the suck-ups and their many many socks that he sees on twitter and tumblr - have decided to worship him even, or especially, if he parks the brothers on toilets reading the phone book for 20 episodes while he plays with all the paper dolls he actually likes.

My only question is why the guys didn't become involved like they said they wanted to in order to insure the final season was about the brothers and that there was some justice done to the story? Did they say that before talking to Dabb and Singer, and those guys told them to go to hell? Did they decide before it all started that they really didn't give a damn after all? What happened there?

Edited September 7, 2019 by PAForrest

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

My only question is why the guys didn't become involved like they said they wanted to in order to insure the final season was about the brothers and that there was some justice done to the story? Did they say that before talking to Dabb and Singer, and those guys told then to go to hell? Did they decide before it all started that they really didn't give a damn after all? What happened there?

I'm pretty sure there was some lip service--they "invited" the boys to sit in on one planning meeting where they could tell everyone what they wanted for the season, and then Dabb and Singer set the storyline and told the writers what *they* wanted and the Js didn't get to see anything till the first few scripts were done and the whole season planned out.  They may "listen" to the boys in certain particulars--like the way they sometimes let them rewrite a line or two that seems OOC, but I'm pretty sure that's the total of their input.  

After all, what are they going to do?  Throw a hissy fit?  Refuse to show up?  (I'd guess there's going to be a lot of polite bitterness *next year* after everything is over, like the comments on the marionette fight.) 

ETA:  Dabb isn't actually planning to make 30% of the people happy.  He's planning to make *himself* happy, and thinking that probably 30% of the people will agree with him.  He's determined to write the story he wants and to hell with everyone else (which wouldn't be so bad if his stories (and ideas) weren't sooooo bad.)

Edited September 5, 2019 by ahrtee

[auntvi]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

My only question is why the guys didn't become involved like they said they wanted to in order to insure the final season was about the brothers and that there was some justice done to the story? Did they say that before talking to Dabb and Singer, and those guys told then to go to hell? Did they decide before it all started that they really didn't give a damn after all? What happened there?

This part bothers me too. Sometimes I wish J2 weren't such good team players.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

As soon as it was clear that the Js weren't going to be as involved, or involved at all, in the storytelling decisions like they claimed they wanted to be, I knew spite and pettiness was going to be Dabb and Singer's theme for season 15. Because you're right, they know they have 20 episodes regardless of whether or not anyone watches or if they go down to 0 in the shares. Hey, it never hurt Crazy Ex-Girlfriend.

So again, Dabb's claim of making 30% of the fans happy is deadly serious, and that 30% - except it's not really even that much, just the suck-ups and their many many socks that he sees on twitter and tumblr - have decided to worship him even, or especially, if he parks the brothers on toilets reading the phone book for 20 episodes while he plays with all the paper dolls he actually likes.

My only question is why the guys didn't become involved like they said they wanted to in order to insure the final season was about the brothers and that there was some justice done to the story? Did they say that before talking to Dabb and Singer, and those guys told then to go to hell? Did they decide before it all started that they really didn't give a damn after all? What happened there?

Maybe this is why actors ask for producer rights/credit-as I've seen happen on other shows that I've watched.

It's possibly not about any money that might be involved, but more about creative input that will be taken seriously and implemented.

We all live and learn, I suppose.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Myrelle
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