S01.E01: Burnt Food

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

When a young surgeon with autism and savant syndrome joins St. Bonaventure hospital's surgical unit, he must navigate the new environment and relationships in order to prove that his medical gifts will save lives.

[AmandaPanda]

I want to like this. I love Freddie Highmore and Richard Schiff, so together, it should be total catnip to me. I just need it to get away from the treacly sweet side of things and the sepia-toned flashbacks. Even though the flashbacks aren't sepia-toned, they might as well be. 

[Last Time Lord]

I had no idea this was based on a Korean show until the credits. 

I think I liked it. Slower than I expected, but I liked Shaun. 

If nothing else, the show make a nice almost literal use of the kick the dog trope. Only with a thrown bunny. 

[SilverShadow]

I liked the show overall but it really bothered me that the effing doctors and board members in the opening scene seemed to never have heard of the ADA, which was violated in at least two or three ways. Yeah yeah drama, but the fact that it wasn't even brought up bugs. 

[SnoGirl]

I liked it. I hope we're done with the flashbacks, although if I was a betting girl, Im sure we're not. I really look forward to how this story unfolds, and how the young doctor makes his connections to others.

I'm bummed out the brother died. I know that's why a lot of people jump into thr medical field, but I was hoping to see his brother down the line.

[TheGreenKnight]

I decided to check out the premiere because of Freddie Highmore; this isn't something I normally would've caught otherwise. I thought the pilot was decent. I knew what would happen in the flashback after he was asked why he wanted to be a surgeon. I know the show is up against Scorpion, but I hope it does well in the ratings.

[AmandaPanda]

14 minutes ago, SilverShadow said:

I liked the show overall but it really bothered me that the effing doctors and board members in the opening scene seemed to never have heard of the ADA, which was violated in at least two or three ways. Yeah yeah drama, but the fact that it wasn't even brought up bugs. 

This! And even though they're surgeons, they would certainly know what autism is. 

Oh well, Freddie Highmore is just so stinkin' adorable that I can't turn away from the show. 

[Amethyst]

25 minutes ago, AmandaPanda said:

I want to like this. 

Same.  Highmore's performance is better than I thought it would be, and I want to give the show a chance.  His performance really anchors the show.  The rest of the cast performances are eh, but it's still early.  

Still, some stuff was baffling.  Did Shaun's mother really think it was OK for her sons to live alone in an abandoned bus in the middle of nowhere, with no food, shelter, or protection?  

And how long was Shaun wandering the airport trying to find supplies?  If he was busy looking for a knife as well as stopping to buy the alcohol, the paramedics should have been at the scene by the time he got back.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Amethyst

[KaveDweller]

3 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I decided to check out the premiere because of Freddie Highmore; this isn't something I normally would've caught otherwise. I thought the pilot was decent. I knew what would happen in the flashback after he was asked why he wanted to be a surgeon. I know the show is up against Scorpion, but I hope it does well in the ratings.

I know when I saw it was a flashback after he got asked that question, I was like, damn we're going to see the sweet brother die now. It was disappointing. 

I enjoyed it, but I hope we don't spend too much time with the main doctor being a dick to Shawn, and Shawn miraculously saving someone's life at the end.

[crazycatlady58]

Well that  was the way House went, but House was both the jerk and the one who saved everyone . 

[slasherboy]

57 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

 And how long was Shaun wandering the airport trying to find supplies?  If he was busy looking for a knife as well as stopping to buy the alcohol, the paramedics should have been at the scene by the time he got back.

Don't forget he had to dismantle the back of a Coke machine for the tubing, and where did he get the tape?

I desperately wanted to like it because I've already invested at least a hundred hours watching the promos (I don't seek them out ... they're just always there) but it was just so phony and unrealistic.  Are those the same things?

I like Freddie Highmore and love Richard Schiff but I don't know about this.  I've passed on "Dancing With the Stars" this season so I'll probably give it another look.  The bunny part was the worst for me.  I knew the kid would live.  He looked a lot older than 8.

[statsgirl]

I had high hopes for it but this show seems to have caught some of David Shore's worst tics.  Everyone, not just Shaun seems so over the ,top.  Schiff's character should really have better control of his emotions by now now.  And be better at boardroom politics if he's the head of the hospital.

Look, there is Chase and Cameron in bed.  Cameron of course has a heart and gets too emotional.  At least he's replaced Cuddy with a competent administrator though.

When the narrow-minded black doctor said "Can't communicate, can't empathize with the patients, does that sound like a surgeon to you?" we all shouted Ye!  That's exactly what most surgeons are like.  That board was so stupid, who cares if he's autistic if he can operate?  It's not like any of those other residents are good with the patients either.

I"ll watch again next week because I like medical shows and Freddie Highmore but so far I'm giving it a 'C'.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

I liked it. I hope we're done with the flashbacks,

I would like to see how he moved in with hospital administrator and how he learned everything there is to know about medicine before he went to college. Flashbacks might be an interesting way to show some of the coping mechanisms for an autistic lifestyle.

Anybody know why the episode was entitled "Burnt Food", they should have called it "Ice Cream Rain".

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

I'm bummed out the brother died. I know that's why a lot of people jump into thr medical field, but I was hoping to see his brother down the line.

Yeah, that would've been cool. I liked seeing the different ways in which his brother and Glassman both supported and looked out for him in the flashbacks (and I like that it was  the younger brother doing the protecting instead of the older one), and it would've been interesting to see that comparison in the present day. 

Also, everything with the bunny was so tough to watch :(.

I normally don't follow medical dramas in general-I've seen bits and pieces of some here and there, but that's about the extent of it (and I've never seen "House"). Like some here, I checked this show out simply because of Highmore. Fortunately, I love how he portrays Shaun, and while, yes, the show does engage in some of the cliches you hear about with these kinds of shows, there's a gentleness to everything with the Shaun character that appeals to me, and I'm interested in getting to know him better, and seeing how his relationship with Glassman continues to develop, along with his friendship with Claire. And if they're able to properly flesh out the other characters with time, then all the better-I think there is potential to make this a nice little ensemble series. I'm willing to overlook a lot of unrealistic storylines and setups if I can get invested in the characters. 

I also like how, for all Shaun's awkwardness and struggles to communicate, he can still stick up for himself just fine when needed, like at the end. And I can relate some to his financial struggles he'd dealt with-I think that can be a really interesting angle to explore as well, especially if the issue of some patient struggling to pay for medical care comes up at any point. 

My big critique is that I hope the romantic drama stays in the background. Not because I'm against romance in and of itself, but because I think the way it was handled in this episode didn't really fit in well with the overall inspirational/familial elements of the show. So if they can let that go and either find a better way to write any romantic elements they add in, or just not have it be a factor in general, then cool. 

But yeah. I'm in :). I think this show has some really good potential, and I'm intrigued to see what they'll do with it. 

[hnygrl]

I liked the surgeon (shaun) parts but the rest  was predictable and stupid. The atypical surgeons who can't keep their clothes on having  inappropriate conversations in inappropriate places, calling him weird] , throwing  him out of the facility...it had me on the verge of swearing a lot. And a lot of yelling at the TV.  I WANT TO LIKE THIS SHOW.  But the not-Shaun parts piss me off they're so badly written, acted,ect.  Ugh.   

[mwell345]

I wanted to like it too, because I love Highmore.  However, I'm not a huge fan of medical shows.

So...I thought Highmore was as brilliant as he usually is, but the show didn't do much for me.  I didn't like the flashbacks (but understood the need) but really didn't need to see Dad and the bunny, dead bunny and then dead brother.  Other than that, it was ok, but not making my cut.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I'm in. IMO Highmore is just amazing. I am so impressed that he plays Sean so we see there really is something "off" with him (vs for example the Chicago Med autistic-ish surgeon whose issues needed a big reveal and major pandering, or yeah, I watched "Sheldon" too about the adorable little socially awkward aspergerish boy--gah). The upcoming episodes look intriguing.

Maybe every time there is a stereotypical moment (like who didn't know that woman doc was hiding in bed next to the nekkid one--ho hum, just stupid), Sean will call it out if he's in the scene. Like when he asked the woman doc later in the cafeteria about lying to him rather than answering her question. 

I could do away with all the imaging of the cardiovascular systerm floating around--I hope Show quits doing that as it's distracting. I didn't mind the flashbacks as a way to give the backstory vs blah blah blah exposition, so at some point they logically should end. Plus I thought little brother looked more like Freddie so I was confused for awhile.

We had to turn on subtitles for the blonde whoever she is--speak up, girl! I think this episode had a big cast and I doubt I'll ever remember all the characters' names if they all get lines everybweek.

Edited September 26, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[SunnyBeBe]

10 hours ago, SilverShadow said:

I liked the show overall but it really bothered me that the effing doctors and board members in the opening scene seemed to never have heard of the ADA, which was violated in at least two or three ways. Yeah yeah drama, but the fact that it wasn't even brought up bugs. 

I know.  It drives me crazy, when a show has so much potential, but, the producers and writers ruin it with crappy writing, not fact checking or doing their research.  It's really inexcusable.  All that silly dialogue in the board room....so silly.  I had to change it.  Maybe, I'll return later to see if it's something that I can tolerate.  I like the actor playing the doctor.  Why can't networks get competent writing staff? I just don't get it.  

[Good Queen Jane]

How much patient contact does a surgical resident have anyway? Easy enough to keep Shaun away from the patients if he doesn't communicate well. And if they are worried about his interaction with the rest of the staff, let's face it , even  in RL, most surgeons are disliked by staff for the reason Shaun said, they're arrogant and impatient with those they feel are inferior.

I hope we are done with the flashbacks. Did they hit every possible cliché? Bullied as a child, abusive father, ineffective mother, heroic doomed sibling, kindly mentor, yep, they got them all. And after all the opposition, the whole board was won over by "My bunny and brother died, so I want to be a surgeon to save others"? Whatever. Let's put that behind and move on to something not so worn out, an autistic man learning to cope with learning surgical AND social skills.

[Lady Calypso]

For a pilot, it certainly could have been worse. I don't know, though. I certainly liked Shaun because of Freddie Highmore, and I liked Richard Schiff's character, and I liked his administrative/board member friend. Other than that? Same typical cliche characters. The Chase/Cameron of the show bored me to tears. Nicholas Gonzalez's character was badly written ("Hey, I totally agree with your assessment about the heart Shaun...wait, there's nothing on the echo that says you're right? I KNEW YOU WERE WRONG!") and no interest in him and administrative friend being a couple. Hill Harper's character also didn't hold my interest. Oh look, uptight board member/doctor who will clearly cause troubles with Shaun until Shaun finds a way to prove himself to Doctor Hardass, probably by saving his life or a loved one's life. 

The flashbacks didn't turn me off, but I was frustrated by some of them. I felt bad for the dead bunny and brother. I cringed at the bunny scene, mostly because of my sister's rabbit being upstairs so I was just picturing that happening. But with the dead brother, now we're going to have to watch Shaun try to connect in some way with every other main character. With his brother, they would have had two established characters for Shaun to be close with. Now, we only have Dr. Glassman, who already got in the trope of "If x doesn't happen in x number of days, I'll quit my job." Been there, done that. I'll be surprised if something new comes out of that cliche, but I highly doubt it. I don't think Dr. Glassman is going anywhere for a potential season 2. Either Shaun proves himself at the last minute, or Dr. Glassman does quit, only to be rehired for *insert cliche reason here*. 

I also might have missed dialogue, but I'm assuming Asshole Dad will show up at the hospital at some point while Mommy Dearest, who let her sons both live on their own because "it's better for them" is dead. Or she'll show up to rekindle her relationship with Shaun, even though he has every right to give her the middle finger and shove her out the door. 

For all that House was, it wasn't all that predictable right off the bat (or maybe it was). But maybe, since we've had about twenty different failed medical dramas since the early days of House, this concept will just fail because it's a been there-done that type of scenario. Sure, Shaun's kind of a unique character, but every other character isn't. 

Also, all they have to do to solve the Shaun unable to empathize with the patients problem is have him not interact with the patients pre or post surgery. Or just have the other doctors let the patients know about Shaun being autistic and that he'll be blunt. 

I'm giving this show a few more episodes to prove to me that it's worth watching. Freddie Highmore is really the reason for me making it past this first episode. 

[Pop Tart]

Quote

I liked the show overall but it really bothered me that the effing doctors and board members in the opening scene seemed to never have heard of the ADA, which was violated in at least two or three ways. Yeah yeah drama, but the fact that it wasn't even brought up bugs. 

This made me crazy too. That all these people would sit around the table openly talking about not hiring the guy, recommended by the hospital chief, because he's autistic? The chief of surgery going into chapter and verse about how his disability disqualifies him from the job before they've even interviewed him? Beyond stupid. There is no way in a million years they'd have that conversation for fear of being sued into bankruptcy. And then when Shaun is standing there all they ask him is why he wants to be a surgeon? Really? Is that how hospitals hire their surgical residents? And then at the end when the surgery team leader tells Shaun that all he's going to get to do is assist in the most minor way going forward with any surgeries? In front of a group of people? Would never in a million years happen - again, can we all say lawsuit? 

I'm not saying that someone in Shaun's circumstance would have an easy time getting the job, but none of this would be out in the open. They'd interview him and then discuss how he might not 'fit the culture' or some other vague reason for not hiring him. And once hired, perhaps he'd be given less difficult tasks and shunted off to research things, etc. There are many ways discrimination could/would play out, but everyone openly talking about not hiring/training the guy because of his disability? Nope. 

Ranting aside - almost a deal breaker for me, I will probably give this one more episode (possibly two), since I did like Shaun. But I'm guessing this is going to tip too heavily into cheesy and schmalzy and heartwarming (not in intelligent ways, but in stupid ways, like Shaun managing to wander the airport for supplies, getting tackled by security, etc. and yet still making it back to the boy and save him - somehow still beating the paramedics).

[tennisgurl]

I agree with the general consensus that the board room scenes were utterly ridiculous in how everyone was just sitting around talking about how they weren't going to higher a qualified doctor because he has Autism, like that isn't all kinds of illegal. Besides, these guys are medical professionals and administrators, shouldn't they know how Autism works? Shaun is clearly qualified, but they're worried that he has bad people skills? He isn't a diplomat, he`s a doctor, and he is clearly good at what he does, so what the hell? I could see them not hiring a person with Autism and being kind of sneaky about it, but not just straight up saying "people with Autism are freaks and we dont want them here" more or less. It felt like some kind of lecture where we have to catch the audience up on what Shaun's deal is, and what opposition he will face. Like its an alternate universe where Autism isn't a well known mental condition. 

That being said, I LOVE Freddie Highmore and I already like Shaun a lot, so I will be back, even with the anvil dropping sessions. I love Bates Motel, and feel like Freddie Highmore never getting any real awards for it is an utter travesty, right up there with the constant snubs of Buffy and The Wire. He proved to be very talented both in front of and behind the camera, so as soon as I saw this I knew I would be watching, even with the added cliches. Sad that the brother died (and the poor bunny!), but it does set up Shaun's motivations pretty well, and while I wouldn't mind seeing the occasional flashback, I hope it wont be a weekly thing. The stuff with the parents was pretty cliche (angry abusive dad who doesn't get his "weird" son, loving but ineffective mom) but I do think it would be interesting to see him meet up with his parents now. Did he end up in foster care, or did he go back to his parents after his brothers death? 

The supporting cast are mostly dull now with the exception of the doctor who was hired Shaun, but they have some potential. And the real star is Freddie, and I love how he plays this character. He really comes off as someone trying to connect with the world around him, but struggling all the time. A lot of TV autistics tend to be either "quirky" or "Autism lets them be an asshole and its hilarious apparently" but Shaun really comes off as a person who has Autism and while he is very high functioning, clearly has a lot to deal with everyday, and its not overly tragic, cute, or funny, it just is the way it is. 

[Granny58]

I'm hoping for the best with this show.  I ADORED House and am hoping this finds its feet.  I've just started watching but I'm already bugged by the parents of the struck boy.  They were pretty subdued for people whose son is about to die.  If that were my son, I would be trembling, hyperventilating, eagle eyed...all of it.  Totally freaking out.  But them, no, not so much.  Then the hug from mom and dad afterwards...it was so lukewarm.  The guy just saved your son's life...how are you not weeping with gratitude and clinging to him?   Lousy acting.  OK, back to the episode.  

OK, finished watching.  I liked it.  I didn't mind the flashbacks...thought they were relevant EXCEPT I didn't need the rabbit incident.  Damn, I'm gutted.  At the end, Dr. Murphy expressed more emotion explaining why he wanted to be a surgeon than the supposedly distraught parents of the injured boy.   So much for an autistic doctor not having empathy, huh?  I'll watch again.  

[taragel]

Yeah, I could not believe they were discussing all that with him right in the room. Rude and lawsuit-waiting-to-happen-esque! Plus, like they were all acting as if they'd never heard of this guy. Wouldn't he have had more vetting/pre-interviews, etc? Silly.

Highmore's a gem (I really appreciated the differences in how he played Shaun versus how he played Norman on Bates Motel--I expected the portrayal to be basically the same, but no, there were definite differences.)  and Schiff is always great, but they could've scrapped everything else for all I cared. And I'm really disappointed we won't get to see a relationship with his brother as adults. That could have been so interesting and complicated. Big lost opportunity there. I'm a little curious about how he actually became a doctor (and how Schiff went to their little town to San Jose) and got through med school and all that, but flashbacks are so tired generally. It would've behooved them to make the surrounding cast/show a lot more interesting.

Although I read the ratings were pretty gangbusters, so I think it'll be just fine.

[thuganomics85]

Just watched the premiere, and I thought it was decent enough for a pilot.  Freddie Highmore was easily the highlight and was the perfect choice for the Shaun character.  I quickly got past the obvious "Hey, Norman Bates is a doctor now!" moments at first, and really believed him as the character and I thought he did a splendid job at showing how autism as effected how his character acts and does things, but avoided relying too much on the ticks and quirks that other actors (even great ones) tend to do when they play similar characters.  But I liked that it was mainly social awkwardness and his inability to explain himself well, and the only times he was close to being "rude" was when he asked Claire (I think that's her name) why did she act differently around him all three times they interacted, and asking Nicholas Gonzalez's doctor if being arrogant helps be a good surgeon.  Neither one felt l like just "Ha, watch his bluntness mess with them!" scenes, because I could buy that Shaun really wanted answers to both of those questions.  Overall, I have a feeling Highmore alone will keep me tuned in.

The boardroom scenes were truly ridiculous complete with the cheesy speeches and over the top hostility.  I swear, I guess any time a role is described as needing someone who is good looking, black, and kind of a dick, casting directors automatically scream "Get Hill Harper's agent on the phone!", because I feel like this is the fifth variation of that type of character I've seen Hill Harper play.  At least Richard Schiff rose above the material and I'm glad he's going to be sticking around because he can make anything better (this season of Ballers was lucky he was around...)

Great to see you again, Beau Garrett!

All the other doctors are kind of dull, but hopefully they'll have room to grow.

Definitely can tell that this is a David Shore show, because even though it is apparently based of a Korean show (and isn't Daniel Dae Kim an executive producer?  Maybe he'll guest!), it really reminded me of House in a lot of ways. 

[Impromptu]

There were a lot of things in the pilot that bugged me (that have already been pointed out), not to mention the patient being prevailed on to consent to the operation was a huge issue for me .... but... Freddie Highmore was amazing and I'm still thinking about the pilot today.  Which means I'll be back for the next episode, and hopefully they'll get the bugs out of their system once they've finished world building.

[Mystery Author]

Quote

Did he end up in foster care, or did he go back to his parents after his brothers death? 

Which is why, like it or not, we will continue to get flashbacks.

[Spartan Girl]

17 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Same.  Highmore's performance is better than I thought it would be, and I want to give the show a chance.  His performance really anchors the show.  The rest of the cast performances are eh, but it's still early.  

Still, some stuff was baffling.  Did Shaun's mother really think it was OK for her sons to live alone in an abandoned bus in the middle of nowhere, with no food, shelter, or protection?  

This is why I can't find one iota of sympathy for battered women that stay in abusive marriages even when they have kids and/or let their spouse best their kids.

That poor bunny ?????

[AZChristian]

16 hours ago, statsgirl said:

When the narrow-minded black doctor said "Can't communicate, can't empathize with the patients, does that sound like a surgeon to you?" we all shouted Ye!  That's exactly what most surgeons are like. 

Reminds me of an old joke:

"What's the difference between a surgeon and God?"

"Well, God doesn't think he's a surgeon."

[crgirl412]

7 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

How much patient contact does a surgical resident have anyway? Easy enough to keep Shaun away from the patients if he doesn't communicate well. And if they are worried about his interaction with the rest of the staff, let's face it , even  in RL, most surgeons are disliked by staff for the reason Shaun said, they're arrogant and impatient with those they feel are inferior.

I hope we are done with the flashbacks. Did they hit every possible cliché? Bullied as a child, abusive father, ineffective mother, heroic doomed sibling, kindly mentor, yep, they got them all. And after all the opposition, the whole board was won over by "My bunny and brother died, so I want to be a surgeon to save others"? Whatever. Let's put that behind and move on to something not so worn out, an autistic man learning to cope with learning surgical AND social skills.

At those kinds of hospitals, it's the surgical Residents who talk to the patients far more than the Surgeons and Anesthesiologists, most of whom are Attendings who are able to oversee the Residents.  The surgical Residents get most of the surgical consents and the anesthesia Residents get most of the anesthesia consents at all hours of the day and night.

I am an RN and worked at one of my city's Level 1 Trauma hospitals which is part of a large academic medical system.  Additionally, my mom went through a long cancer battle with emergencies and surgeries at the other Level 1 Trauma hospital, part of the other large academic medical system in my city.  I didn't understand (I was not an RN) why we didn't see the "real doctors" more.  I totally understand now! 

The Surgeons in these types of hospitals are performing only the most complex of the surgeries, teaching, doing research, traveling to speak/going to conferences, accepting awards, meeting with the medical director and a lot more.  There are Residents at those hospitals 24/7/365 who do almost everything.  As they get more experience they do more and more surgeries and the Surgeons oversee/assist in the OR(s).

I thought Shaun was pretty impaired which is ok when you are a Surgeon at that type of hospital but not for a Resident who has a lot of interaction with patients, families and nurses in the ICU and up on the floors.  It will be interesting to watch how this is navigated.   

[Mabinogia]

I finally got to watch this. I was excited because Freddie Highmore!!!! He is absolutely amazing and basically the only reason I'll be tuning in because, I was dreading this because David Shore. Ugh! The man has one idea and just kind of changed the names and threw in autism so Shaun wouldn't be House Jr. Which he totally is, only with better social skills. All the other hospital staff aren't actual people yet, just characters, the wide eyes girl doctor, the hot guy she's screwing, the arrogant lead surgeon, the board member who just isn't on board with having our lead on staff, the pretty board member who is dismissed because really she's just there so it's not an all male cast. 

I adored Shaun's brother. I found that whole part so touching. Sure it was cliché and we all saw his brother dying a mile away, but it got me. I cried. The rabbit...oh man is that going to stay with me for a while. Hated that scene. I wish Shore had gone against the cliché and not killed the brother. It would have been interesting to see their relationship as adults. 

I will say that I think the brother lied about mom not looking for them because they are better off. I think he just told Shaun that so he wouldn't worry or try to reach out to her. 

If Shore can pull his head out of his ass long enough to come up with something that isn't House 2.0 I think this show has potential, based mostly on Freddie Highmore being an acting god!

[Guest]

18 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Anybody know why the episode was entitled "Burnt Food", they should have called it "Ice Cream Rain".

The bunny died when it smelled like ice cream rain.  The brother died when it smelled like burnt food.

I liked it overall.  It had a lot pilot gimmicks that are ok in small doses but were overdone (flashbacks, visual representations of how his brain works).  They probably won't last forever, so I'll give it a chance to settle into its repetitive pattern to see how I feel about it.  I presume repetitive since House rarely broke the nearly kill the patient a couple times then save him/her structure.

The one thing I think will get really old, really fast is the Doctor acts like and asshole and Shaun inquires whether being an asshole makes  a better doctor. 

I also got hit by several anvils that Schiff's character is probably dying and that is his primary motivation to take the risk of helping Shaun be a surgeon.  I don't think its selfishly motivated.  I suspect that later in the season it will be revealed that he has something he knows to be inoperable and surprise Shaun can save him and he never expected that to be something that came out of helping Shaun.

[2727]

I'm interested enough in Shaun to continue watching for a bit longer, but man, that was one ham-fisted slog. I hope the writers aren't going to push beyond believability in every ep -- the airport rescue and boardroom scenes wrenched my eye muscles due to virulent rollitis.

Regarding Shaun's potential liability as a resident, why would the board members specifically be worried about that? Do they think patients will sue because of perceived rudeness? Why would Shaun make any more mistakes than other first-year residents? (And come on. We all freaking know he will inevitably be great after first putting his foot wrong. Be abrupt or impersonal > get in trouble >save the day > previews for next week.)

So the pilot basically set us up with a hospital full of assholes except for Drs. Glassman and Browne. Lots of room for redemption arcs, I guess.

I wonder if San Jose/Silicon Valley as a place is going to specifically figure into the story? Not sure why if so; I can live without the tech entrepreneur of the week.

Edited September 27, 2017 by 2727

[slasherboy]

48 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

The bunny died when it smelled like ice cream rain.  The brother died when it smelled like burnt food.

I also got hit by several anvils that Schiff's character is probably dying 

The first sentence, what does that mean actually?  The ice cream rain and the burnt food?  My mind kind of wandered now and then and I think I missed that.

The second sentence, I picked up on Toby Ziegler dying as well.  I got it when he said to the woman (I don't know names) that he wouldn't always be there to protect her.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, 2727 said:

Regarding Shaun's potential liability as a resident, why would the board members specifically be worried about liability? Do they think patients will sue because of perceived rudeness? Why would Shaun make any more mistakes than any other first-year residents?

People are irrational in grief and look for something or someone to blame.  Even if no mistakes were made and Shaun did nothing but observe, I would expect that there would be more lawsuits because he has autism and was present.

I think there is more concern about the premiums that the insurance will make them pay because there would be an expectation of more lawsuits even if Shaun never made a mistake.

[Annber03]

22 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I also got hit by several anvils that Schiff's character is probably dying and that is his primary motivation to take the risk of helping Shaun be a surgeon.  I don't think its selfishly motivated.  I suspect that later in the season it will be revealed that he has something he knows to be inoperable and surprise Shaun can save him and he never expected that to be something that came out of helping Shaun.

I hope they don't go that route simply because I really like the mentor/mentee vibe he and Shaun have going, and I want the show to focus on exploring that in more depth and see how Glassman both helps and potentially hinders Shaun's ability and attempts to grow and learn and whatnot in this job. And Shaun's already dealt with so much tragedy, it'd be sad to see him faced with potentially losing somebody else he cares so deeply about, too. At least, so soon in the show's run, anyway. I like the more hopeful, optimistic aspects of the show and I think it'd be nice to keep the focus on that more often. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Annber03

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, slasherboy said:

The first sentence, what does that mean actually?  The ice cream rain and the burnt food?  My mind kind of wandered now and then and I think I missed that.

When the board asked him at the end why he wanted to be a surgeon, he did a whole speech about when the X smelled like Y my brother/bunny died and they should have grown up to be adults and have kids, etc.  Then he ended it with something like and I want to be rich so I can buy a television.

Edited September 27, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Neurochick]

23 hours ago, SilverShadow said:

I liked the show overall but it really bothered me that the effing doctors and board members in the opening scene seemed to never have heard of the ADA, which was violated in at least two or three ways. Yeah yeah drama, but the fact that it wasn't even brought up bugs. 

Actually I found that part sadly realistic.  Just because people are surgeons and board members doesn't mean they can't be biased.  There are still places that won't hire women, or black people.  They know it's illegal but they do it anyway.

Edited September 27, 2017 by Neurochick

[statsgirl]

The imaging reminded me of the first Sherlock episode, A Study In Pink.  I'm not sure if I want to keep it around or not.  At least it's different.

Harper Hill's character saying "You have to accept that he will make mistakes other residents won't."  Huh?  He's got superior medical skills as he just proved.  As long as they teach him how to do a decent history, what mistakes is he going to make?  The patient who wanted to see a shrink first but they found out he would have died by morning was such a cheap shot.

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Why can't networks get competent writing staff? I just don't get it.  

The teleplay was by David Shore. The story is based on a Korean show that is being adapted.

I hope Daniel Dae Kim can keep Shore from his worst excesses.

4 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

The Surgeons in these types of hospitals are performing only the most complex of the surgeries, teaching, doing research, traveling to speak/going to conferences, accepting awards, meeting with the medical director and a lot more.  There are Residents at those hospitals 24/7/365 who do almost everything.  As they get more experience they do more and more surgeries and the Surgeons oversee/assist in the OR(s).

I thought Shaun was pretty impaired which is ok when you are a Surgeon at that type of hospital but not for a Resident who has a lot of interaction with patients, families and nurses in the ICU and up on the floors.  It will be interesting to watch how this is navigated.   

Many hospitals have programs that teach empathy to med students and residents because it's not just people o the Autism Spectrum who have problems with being able to speak to patients and their families.  If this hospital doesn't have one, there are courses in mental health facilities that teach people skills.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Actually I found that part sadly realistic.  Just because people are surgeons and board members doesn't mean they can't be biased.  There are still places that won't hire women, or black people.  They know it's illegal but they do it anyway.

This is so true.  I read a management blog and the things I read sometimes about law firms and how much they can disregard employment law.  But I am surprised no one even bothered mentioning how inappropriate the discussion was. 

But then again, they were all around discussing the hire of one person and expecting him to be there for an interview on the day he's going to start?  Just so much ridiculous.

59 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Many hospitals have programs that teach empathy to med students and residents because it's not just people o the Autism Spectrum who have problems with being able to speak to patients and their families.  If this hospital doesn't have one, there are courses in mental health facilities that teach people skills.

I'm on a Med Ed listserv because it's very tangentially related to my job.  It's even worse in that students actually lose empathy as they go through the program.

There were no new network dramas that interested me this year so I figured I'd just check out a few that possibly had potential.  I used to love House but then gave up on it when they swapped out the ducklings.  However, if this was anything like early House, I figured I might enjoy it.  The pilotitis was strong.  So many people against our hero.  He has a tragic past.  He's brilliant but no one cares.  I think Freddie Highmore is good. I love Richard Schiff. I like Shiff's board member friend.  I like Antonia Thomas (Claire) from Lovesick so I think she has the potential to be a good friend.  Didn't really care much about the other stuff. 

I may tune back in as it develops into more of a medical procedural than "look who Shaun has to win over today."

Edited September 27, 2017 by Irlandesa

[The Companion]

1 hour ago, ParadoxLost said:

People are irrational in grief and look for something or someone to blame.  Even if no mistakes were made and Shaun did nothing but observe, I would expect that there would be more lawsuits because he has autism and was present.

I think there is more concern about the premiums that the insurance will make them pay because there would be an expectation of more lawsuits even if Shaun never made a mistake.

In the real world, if premiums were a concern they would have priced it out. It was a terrible argument. 

30 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Actually I found that part sadly realistic.  Just because people are surgeons and board members doesn't mean they can't be biased.  There are still places that won't hire women, or black people.  They know it's illegal but they do it anyway.

I come from a family of doctors and I am a lawyer who works with Boards and Doctors. I can tell you right now that they are familiar with regulations and law. If there was any concern, one of their in house lawyers would have been briefed and present. They weren't just being biased, they were refusing to consider an applicant based on disability who had made no indication that he would even need a reasonable accommodation. Beyond that, the entire conversation was cringeworthy and unrealistic. He would have been through medical school, rotating through different fields. There is no world where they don't have transcripts, recommendations and information about his performance of medical procedures. Additionally, he would have been matched months before after an intense interview process. You meet the doctors, interview and go through recruitment and then you are generally ranked by a selection committee. You also rank your hospitals and you are matched up. 

Beyond that, there is also no world that the ambulance takes like 45 minutes to get there. My husband, a former EMT was cringing. 

I wanted to like this show. It seemed interesting from the previews. I think I am out though. It was predictable (I told my husband I wasn't sure I wanted to see how the brother died like halfway through) and poorly researched. I expect some unrealistic aspects for drama (if you think surgeons have a lot of downtime during which they get it on in the call room you have never known a surgeon) but there were just too many strikes against it.

[Fable]

I enjoyed this.  I imagine it is going to be some endearing little fluff show and probably not terribly thought provoking, but I’ll probably continue to watch as long as it remains interesting and not completely unrealistic.  I hope we don’t get a lot of contrived romance or interpersonal relationships, but if the show centers on Dr. Murphy, I can live with that. 

[kissedbyarose]

The dialogue on this show almost made my ears bleed. 

Hill Harper was missing a mustache to twirl.

If it wasn’t for Freddie Highmore, I wouldn’t give this another shot but I really want to be proven wrong because Bates Motel. 

[asabovesobelow]

Yes, the golden rule of television is 'show, don't tell'. In lieu of seeing a bunny thrown against a wall, I would much rather have been 'told'. I wish he had stabbed his father in the face.

[CooperTV]

The main character has the most tragic backstory outside of fairytales. His abusive father beat him and his brother, killed his rabbit, and then the brother, his sole best friend and supporter in the whole world, is killed in a tragic accident?? Oh boy.

Otherwise it was generic medical drama/procedural with all cliches and tropes the genre requires. The standard "This Person Has Pneumothorax, We Need to Use Whisky and Cocktail Tubes to Save Him" was ridiculous beyond any suspension of disbelief: ambulance should have been there way before Shawn went awkwardly to ask a knife from the security.

Edited September 27, 2017 by CooperTV

[statsgirl]

16 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

People are irrational in grief and look for something or someone to blame.  Even if no mistakes were made and Shaun did nothing but observe, I would expect that there would be more lawsuits because he has autism and was present.

I think there is more concern about the premiums that the insurance will make them pay because there would be an expectation of more lawsuits even if Shaun never made a mistake.

When Michigan went to a system where medical errors were fully disclosed and compensation offered to the patients,

Quote

After full implementation of a disclosure-with-offer program, the average monthly rate of new claims decreased from 7.03 to 4.52 per 100,000 patient encounters ). The average monthly rate of lawsuits decreased from 2.13 to 0.75 per 100,000 patient encounters ). Median time from claim reporting to resolution decreased from 1.36 to 0.95 years. Average monthly cost rates decreased for total liability, patient compensation, and non-compensation-related legal costs.

Why do patients file lawsuits?  From an report published by the National Institute of Health:

Quote

studies of patients who file suit find litigants are motivated to find out what happened and to prevent future injury, motivations that implicate apologies. For example, Vincent and colleagues [54] surveyed medical malpractice claimants about the reasons they filed suit. Over 90% of respondents indicated they wanted to prevent the same thing from happening to someone else, to receive an explanation for what had happened, or for the doctors to realize what they had done. Of the respondents who thought something could have been done to prevent the lawsuit, approximately 40% reported that if they had received an explanation and apology, they would not have felt the need to file suit [54]. Similarly, among the reasons that claimants interviewed by Hickson and colleagues [18] gave as motivating their lawsuits were the belief that “the courtroom was the only forum in which they could find out what happened from the physicians who provided care” (20%), the belief “that physicians had failed to be completely honest with them about what happened, allowed them to believe things that were not true, or intentionally misled them” (24%), and a desire to “deter subsequent malpractice by the physician and/or to seek revenge” (19%) [18]. Other studies have similarly found failure to provide explanations and poor communication generally are associated with litigation [1, 19, 21, 34, 35, 48].

Realistically, if they want to avoid lawsuits, the doctors need to be honest with the patients and their families.  Who do you think is going to be more honest, Shaun or Harper Hill and the surgeon who is rude to everyone?

ETA:  I still don't understand why they think Shaun is going to make more mistakes than any other surgical resident.  Given his intelligence, his ability to visualize and his lack of emotions that screw up his reasoning, he should make less mistakes rather than more.

Edited September 27, 2017 by statsgirl

[orza]

But this is TV. It doesn't matter what may or may not work best in the real world. While Shaun may be "honest", he lacks the social skills and finesse to present unpleasant facts in a way that is palatable to patients. This lack of interpersonal skills was demonstrated in the final scene of the episode. Shaun told Melendez that he was arrogant and asked a bunch of questions that showed how lacking he is in this area. It was neither the time nor place for such remarks but that did not register at all with Shaun. We are supposed to assume he didn't intend to be rude and inappropriate but he was and probably put the patient at risk by distracting and annoying the surgeon.

I guess they are going for inspirational and uplifting with this show but for me it came off as cloying and glib. The premise of the show is pretty cringe-worthy but I thought that having good actors could help pull it off. I'm not so sure now. I tuned in for Richard Schiff and Hill Harper and they were disappointing.

[Yakimaman]

If this wasn't Freddy, the show wouldn't get past the pilot episode.  Listen to the dialogue, look at the rest of the cast and tell me this show doesn't belong at 2:00 pm with the rest of the soap operas.  

[slasherboy]

18 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

When the board asked him at the end why he wanted to be a surgeon, he did a whole speech about when the X smelled like Y my brother/bunny died and they should have grown up to be adults and have kids, etc.  Then he ended it with something like and I want to be rich so I can buy a television.

But what do they mean?  I heard him say those things, but did he really smell ice cream when it rained and did he really smell burnt food when his brother died?  Thanks for responding.

[MsNewsradio]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Given his intelligence, his ability to visualize and his lack of emotions that screw up his reasoning, he should make less mistakes rather than more.

I'm sorry, statsgirl, I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but as an autistic person I just want to point out that Shaun has the same emotions everyone else does. He may have difficulty expressing them the same way, but they are still there, and at the very least are referenced in this episode in the fact that he clearly cared about his rabbit and his brother. 

The idea that autistics are less emotional or devoid of emotions is a myth that is a source of ire with the autistic community, as it paints us in a fairly inhuman or robotic light. In fact, recent science has shown it is far likely that we process too much emotion, rather than too little, and essentially overload.  Shaun, brilliant though he may be, is still prone to the same mistakes as any other surgeon, including letting emotion cloud his judgement.