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OnceSane

S04.E09: Finale

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19 hours ago, Rainsong said:

Robby is still being billed as a social media influencer.  Based on his intelligence and vocabulary, this can only mean that he simply clicks the 'like' button repeatedly in various apps.  Exactly who would be influenced by this empty vessel and why remains a mystery.

Bahahaha. Brilliant.

This is one of those Freaky Friday things, where everyone is actually a tween in an adult body, right?

Amanda and Robby break up with all the tears and angst of a 6th grade couple who went out for the duration of their group project on Mexico.

Christen freaks out at the thought of her hand touching a boy's ... hand!

Jasmine is the school bully, covering up a deeply troubled childhood.

Taylor is that girl who snags the good guy, and everyone wonders how it happened.

Ben Z is the nice guy who everyone overlooks because he's not flashy but is actually the best catch of them all. 

Someone please turn them all back to adults !!!

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I agree with the above. I think Kristina got caught up in "Paradise" and just tried to make things work with Dean, even though there were lots of red flags. Dean was there to have a good time and was probably genuinely confused and attracted to both girls. 

That being said, he still handled things like a putz. He kept going back and forth on his decisions and mumbling his feelings. The fact that he tried connecting with both girls after the show, after dumping each of them, was pretty dumb. 

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I ended up turning the show off cuz I was bored and it was getting on my nerves. 

Got to give DLo props for keeping it calm and composed. She stuck to extended  her 15 mins without making herself look crazed or tarnishing her rep. Kristina on the other hand made herself look dumb, ignored red flags, and then played bitter and acted like DLo victimized her.

Dean and his fake ass tears as so eye roll worthy. I knew he was trying to garner sympathy.

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5 hours ago, LBS said:

Raven didn't get new boobs recently.  She tweeted out that they were 6 years old.   (Or maybe 8.  I can't remember and am embarrassed that I actually remembered the gist of a tweet about a women who is a stranger to me made about her fake boobs but I spent half the day trying to remember if my niece was turning 4 or 5)

ETA: I agree that the enhancements both look "normal" on Raven and Danielle M.   As a woman who is Danielle M size, I would get an upgrade in a heartbeat if I had the money.

I didn't realize this and didn't spend any time on Nick's season trying to evaluate the size of Raven's breasts. They seemed normal to me. Which helps explain why I feel they look normal now. Also I don't recall any time during his season where she was show in a bikini. Unlike BIP where that is all we see.

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6 hours ago, LBS said:

Raven didn't get new boobs recently.  She tweeted out that they were 6 years old.  

This cracked me up!

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I'm so glad that I don't have to see skeevy Dean spit pool water at me anymore. He was repeatedly a gross out moment in the normally enjoyable intros. 

Amanda tries to pretend she had to give up pizza for awhile after last season, but she someone kept the long hanks of fake hair. I guess it didn't remind her of Josh, even though he wound his sweaty hands  through it. 

I ended up liking Jack Stone more than I would've expected. He and BenZ get my roses. 

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17 hours ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Corinne and Amanda remind me of Kardashians--pointless people who have been thrust into the spotlight for commercial reasons and just won't leave.

No doubt...and Corinne figured out a way to emulate KK on network TV.  Her 15 minute expiration can't come soon enough for me.

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10 hours ago, ramble said:

I ended up liking Jack Stone more than I would've expected. He and BenZ get my roses. 

Mine too. They are the only two on that beach I would have had any interest in getting to know. Otherwise, there really were a bunch of duds this season.

I can't help but wonder how things would have gone down if the whole scandal/shut down hadn't happened.

Edited by Mabinogia
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I do have some sympathy for Dean. If he were just a normal 25-year-old playing the field and having fun, he wouldn't have agonized so much about Kristina, he'd just have a use 'em and lose 'em philosophy about hooking up. This is not to say that I EVER want to see him on any form of Bachelor again.

What I think he needs is some very serious help in the form of a psychiatrist. Yes, he acts like he is 14, but a trauma can arrest your further development, and I don't think he's ever resolved his mother's death/father's abandonment at that age. His fear of abandonment must be debilitating, and he's probably afraid of getting truly close to anyone because, deep down, he thinks they will abandon him.

Yada, yada, yada. I am not any kind of mental health practitioner; sorry for the amateur diagnosis!

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55 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Mine too. They are the only two on that beach I would have had any interest in getting to know. Otherwise, there really were a bunch of duds this season.

I can't help but wonder how things would have gone down if the whole scandal/shut down hadn't happened.

I thought this same thing. Were C and DeM supposed to be the high drama couple--both brought over-the-top baggage into the show from their earlier shows, right? Were C and Taylor (weren't they sparring partners on Nick Ick's season?) supposed to get into fights, going after each other's guys, etc.? Did Dean get nudged to step up the shenanigans and provide some fireworks when those storylines were lost? 

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I agree with the posters about Danielle keeping it classy with how she acted throughout. I feel bad for her because just because she didn't act like a sad sack cry baby over someone she only knew for a week or two, she was portrayed as the one at fault and kristina was portrayed as the victim because she cried every second and let Dean walk all over her. I mean I've been in relationships where the guy cheated on me/ was a player, but I never once blamed the other girl for it. It is not their fault that the guy is an asshole and if he wasn't cheating with her, he'd be cheating with someone else. While Kristina seems like a nice girl, she really was ignoring Dean every time he said he wanted to see what happened with Danielle and that he liked both of them. She just kept crying and making excuses for how he was acting and giving him more chances. Danielle was acting appropriately for someone she just started dating. I know people take things differently, but I just feel like Kristina needs to stop blaming Danielle because it's making her look even more pathetic.

 

Also, both Kristina and Danielle said that they weren't friends before the show, so really, Danielle owed her nothing.

Edited by Jaclyn88
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On 9/12/2017 at 0:05 AM, MakeMeLaugh said:

Jasmine is easily the most annoying person in the history of all the bachelor franchises. Sit down and shut up for a change.

I finally watched the whole thing last night.  What was with jasmine shrieking "Tracy....TRACY!!!!" when Raven's parents showed up?  Geez, Jasmine, calm down, I think she knows you're there.

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16 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

I thought this same thing. Were C and DeM supposed to be the high drama couple--both brought over-the-top baggage into the show from their earlier shows, right? Were C and Taylor (weren't they sparring partners on Nick Ick's season?) supposed to get into fights, going after each other's guys, etc.? Did Dean get nudged to step up the shenanigans and provide some fireworks when those storylines were lost? 

I think you're right about Corinne and DeMario being an intended focal point. Remember Chad's (ultimately brief) time in Paradise last year? He was there for like a day, but they milked that footage to the last drop. 

And I can't really imagine Taylor being asked back if not for the possibility of clashing with Corinne some more. So if Taylor and Derek really do get married and make it last, she'll have her beef with Corinne to thank for the chance to even meet Derek. I guess that's getting the last laugh, considering how Corinne's time in Paradise went. 

I don't think Dean got nudged to step up so much as he was the only one putting his foot in it so badly that it was causing drama. It seemed like Raven was supposed to be one of the "stars" at the beginning, but she faded into a background character by the end. 

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On 9/11/2017 at 9:28 PM, JoBeth70 said:

So what happened to the much-hyped preview (from the beginning of the season) that showed Raven and Dominique making out? It just occurred to me that we never saw that. TPTB dangled that out there as bait.

And what about the preview with Adam crying and saying something like "this is just so $*(@^$ up"?

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I loved how Kristina was totally over Dean in the studio segment. There's nothing wrong per se with Dean playing the field, but he needs to handle it a HELL of a lot better than this. For starters, if all he's looking for is a temporary FWB situation, then he needs to SAY THAT from the start and not act like it's anything more.

Case in point: Back in the 1970s, a friend of a friend was exactly like Dean: playing the field but being dishonest about it. He'd string women along and tell them "I just want someone to love" or whatever until he got bored with them and moved on. Cut to ten years later and this guy was now wanting to get married and settle down. He'd built up such a reputation in the Eugene area that he was having drive two hours each way to Portland to hit the singles' bars there: literally every decent singles bar in Eugene had someone he'd been with or at least someone who knew him and would scare potential dates off with "I know this guy. He's going to sweet-talk talk you into bed and dump you a week later."

This could well be Dean in a few years.

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3 hours ago, Catronia said:

I do have some sympathy for Dean. If he were just a normal 25-year-old playing the field and having fun, he wouldn't have agonized so much about Kristina, he'd just have a use 'em and lose 'em philosophy about hooking up. This is not to say that I EVER want to see him on any form of Bachelor again.

What I think he needs is some very serious help in the form of a psychiatrist. Yes, he acts like he is 14, but a trauma can arrest your further development, and I don't think he's ever resolved his mother's death/father's abandonment at that age. His fear of abandonment must be debilitating, and he's probably afraid of getting truly close to anyone because, deep down, he thinks they will abandon him.

Yada, yada, yada. I am not any kind of mental health practitioner; sorry for the amateur diagnosis!

I completely agree with the therapist/psychiatrist thoughts. I said pretty much to same to a friend. I really don't think he's dealt with his mother's passing completely. Not that you can ever get over that but how he explains things after stunted his growth some. 

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On 9/11/2017 at 7:51 PM, Stan39 said:

Also, to everyone wondering why Amanda trashed Robbie in the media now (rather than wait and draw out more attention later), now we know. She wanted to have a spotlight on her for the reunion show. Shameless. 

I think her primary motivation is to be on TV. Perhaps she thinks if she shows up enough, she'll be considered for The Bachelorette. Her baby voice drives me crazy. Do men really like that? Never mind... yes, I've heard they do. 

Whoops, mertensia you beat me to it. 

I hope Derek knows what he's doing. Taylor seems super high maintenance to me. 

Edited by Sweet-tea
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On 9/12/2017 at 0:07 AM, scrambled eggs said:

In the immortal words of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, this entire season was a shit show. BiP either needs a complete makeover or should just end. 

One of the problems for me is there isn't an incentive for them, just the vague notion of walking off together for whatever. I never watched Bachelor Pad, but wasn't it a contest in the Survivor mode? This seems like a better concept to me, although I guess it wasn't since they revamped the show. 

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12 minutes ago, Sweet-tea said:

I think her primary motivation is to be on TV. Perhaps she thinks if she shows up enough, she'll be considered for The Bachelorette. Her baby voice drives me crazy. Do men really like that? Never mind... yes, I've heard they do. 

Well, Nick showed up enough to eventually be The Bachelor and now Arie (although he at least didn't show up on BIP).  So, it isn't too far fetched if no rejects from Arie's season seem like viable candidates.  The guys seem to really like her.  She is kind of like Emily light....a less dynamic version.

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19 hours ago, nutty1 said:

 

 

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This actually makes me want to know the story even more!  It was one of the few things I was hoping they would mention at the reunion, instead Dani didn't get to say a word and Wells and his lounging tshirt were relegated to audience members.

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11 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

This actually makes me want to know the story even more!  It was one of the few things I was hoping they would mention at the reunion, instead Dani didn't get to say a word and Wells and his lounging tshirt were relegated to audience members.

CH sent a follow-up tweet saying they're not together. TBH, I didn't think anything would come of the kiss. Those two live in the same city and have known each other for years. Had there been anything there, they would have gone for it already. Danielle didn't click with anyone on BIP, so the Wells thing became her "story".

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On 9/12/2017 at 1:42 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I thought it was odd that Jack Stone just wanted to continue to get to know Christen and she thought leaving hand in hand was a big deal. She didn't seem all that bright to me, so in the end I think she did Jack a favour. I would love it if he was the next bachelor. Smart, nice and good looking. What's not to like? 

I liked Taylor's ring - not ridiculously over sized like so many of them are. Very pretty. 

I would definitely be up for Jack Stone as bachelor.

I didn't even notice the ring, but I love that it wasn't enormous. That, along with the fact that we never saw any Neil Lane bling-picking scene almost makes me wonder if he actually sprung for something himself.

On 9/12/2017 at 7:43 AM, mertensia said:

I just gotta ask, and I do mean this seriously: how does parading her virginity around help Christen's brand? I mean, conservative Christian types aren't likely to approve her teensy bikini or her appearing on the franchise.

Although it's true that she did mention it (and in the context of brand at least once), I feel like I actually heard way more about Christen's virginity from Jasmine than from Christen. Jasmine was very weirdly fixated on it.

On 9/12/2017 at 9:38 AM, MMLEsq said:

Well, to be fair to them, they live thousands of miles apart (Lacey in NY, Daniel in Vancouver), so this might have been the most logical way to spend some concentrated time together to see where things might go.  

I was going to point this out, too. While there's certainly no rule against any of these people dating outside of the shows, working that out would be very difficult. They might see each other occasionally at Bachelor Nation events, but to actually get enough real time together to know whether there's something worth pursuing, someone would have to go visit someone else for a fairly solid period of time, and that requires both parties to agree that that would be a worthwhile use of their time and money. So logistically, this actually makes a lot of sense.

On 9/12/2017 at 0:01 PM, ljenkins782 said:

Except that she has no personality and no variance in her emotions. She thinks Robbie cheated on her and her response was kinda "well, I guess that's okay." That would never fly on a Housewife show, lol. 

I think you have to actually be into someone to truly care if they cheat on you...

The break-ups were a bit odd to watch, as so many of them seemed to basically blindside the person getting dumped. The Jack and Christen one was possibly the weirdest, though. He's all "I would like to date you." And she's all "Wait, what? Date? I thought we were just friends. If that." Which is particularly weird because she goes on to point out that friends don't run around holding hands... but apparently they do make out?

And Dean. Oh Dean. I think this finale kind of bore out what I've figured to be the case with him, which is that he genuinely does like Kristina, but he's not yet ready for an actual committed relationship and/or doesn't yet have the emotional maturity to understand that even when you are really into someone, you might still find yourself attracted to other people, but that doesn't mean you have to act on those feelings just because you have them. And I gotta say, I felt for Danielle. It's gotta at least sting a little to watch someone be all "Kristina is smart, and funny, and great to spend time with, etc. etc., but Danielle is hawt!" If you didn't already have a suspicion that he's into very little more about you than your physical assets, that ought to confirm it.

And Daniel. Oh Daniel, you disappointed me so hard. I mean, he came in fully acknowledging that he just wanted to have some fun, and good for him for having it, I guess, but dude. I was actually really kind of shipping those two weirdoes, and thought that the fact that we got very little Daniel-brand insane conversation meant he was actually hitting it off quietly with Lacey, so to find that he basically straight up played her is very disappointing. Have a fling, whatever; I'm not here to slut shame anyone. But be above-board with it.

And finally, all I can say about Corinne and DeMario being dragged out yet again is that at least their bit this ep was mercifully brief.

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On 9/12/2017 at 8:38 AM, MMLEsq said:

Is everyone not contractually obligated to return for the reunion?  I was more interested in hearing what Matt might have to say than the twins who were only there for a couple of hours.  Did Danielle (blond -- left after kissing Wells) even say one word?  And Wells was there, but wa

Ben Z wasn't there either, but since he was ignored on the show I wasn't surprised. 

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3 hours ago, kingshearte said:

And Daniel. Oh Daniel, you disappointed me so hard. I mean, he came in fully acknowledging that he just wanted to have some fun, and good for him for having it, I guess, but dude. I was actually really kind of shipping those two weirdoes, and thought that the fact that we got very little Daniel-brand insane conversation meant he was actually hitting it off quietly with Lacey, so to find that he basically straight up played her is very disappointing. Have a fling, whatever; I'm not here to slut shame anyone. But be above-board with it.

Exactly. I loved that Daniel was unabashedly frank about being a weirdo and not caring about what people thought. It was refreshing. To then turn out to be a boring, common player is a bummer. Daniel, we thought you were different!

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4 hours ago, kingshearte said:

I would definitely be up for Jack Stone as bachelor.

I didn't even notice the ring, but I love that it wasn't enormous. That, along with the fact that we never saw any Neil Lane bling-picking scene almost makes me wonder if he actually sprung for something himself.

 

It was in a Neil Lane box, so if nothing else he likely got a discount. But I think it was likely paid for by the show since he proposed on it. I wonder why their parents weren't there, but Raven's were? 

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17 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

It was in a Neil Lane box, so if nothing else he likely got a discount. But I think it was likely paid for by the show since he proposed on it. I wonder why their parents weren't there, but Raven's were? 

The answer is in Alex's pants.

I think we had a case of cold feet and may have had a proposal ready but backed out.

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7 minutes ago, Wandering Snark said:

The answer is in Alex's pants.

I think we had a case of cold feet and may have had a proposal ready but backed out.

Yes, I think others have surmised this as well. But wondering why Taylor and Derek's parents weren't there? 

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On 9/12/2017 at 1:42 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I thought it was odd that Jack Stone just wanted to continue to get to know Christen and she thought leaving hand in hand was a big deal. She didn't seem all that bright to me, so in the end I think she did Jack a favour. I would love it if he was the next bachelor. Smart, nice and good looking. What's not to like? 

THIS! I found this to be one of the weirder parts of the entire season. Christen, for all her niceness and sincerity, seemed a bit "off" to me...mostly from the clip of her in the intro (she just seems not entirely "with it" during that clip) and then her reaction to Jack at the end just confirmed it for me. He was one of the most normal people on the show and what he was proposing was not strange considering that they did hang out and make out as well. And didn't they both exchange roses or something? Anyway, I was as dumbfounded as him by her reaction. How could someone who you made out with seem so shocked that you want to keep in touch with them in a "dating" sense after the show. I mean c'mon. I guess common sense doesn't occur in Paradise. What made me feel even more bad for Jack was that he dissed one of the twins last week in order to get to know Christen better...and she did him like that? Damn. Anyway, I still love ya, Jack, and you are one of my faves! I hope he gets chosen as the bachelor one day :)

13 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I agree with the posters about Danielle keeping it classy with how she acted throughout. I feel bad for her because just because she didn't act like a sad sack cry baby over someone she only knew for a week or two, she was portrayed as the one at fault and kristina was portrayed as the victim because she cried every second and let Dean walk all over her. I mean I've been in relationships where the guy cheated on me/ was a player, but I never once blamed the other girl for it. It is not their fault that the guy is an asshole and if he wasn't cheating with her, he'd be cheating with someone else. While Kristina seems like a nice girl, she really was ignoring Dean every time he said he wanted to see what happened with Danielle and that he liked both of them. She just kept crying and making excuses for how he was acting and giving him more chances. Danielle was acting appropriately for someone she just started dating. I know people take things differently, but I just feel like Kristina needs to stop blaming Danielle because it's making her look even more pathetic.

 

Also, both Kristina and Danielle said that they weren't friends before the show, so really, Danielle owed her nothing.

True...agree with you and the others who are defending D-Lo. She didn't do anything super terrible. Dean did say he was single and taking a break from Kristina. He is the one that was flip-flopping and playing the girls. And I say this as a girl who HAS hated an "other girl" in real life because she actually DID do me dirty. In this case, D-Lo didn't play dirty. Sorry. Anyway, I hope both girls find a good man in the future and I hope Dean STAYS SINGLE and gets some therapy.

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Yeah Christen gives off dumb girl vibes. Her eyes are so vacant and she always looks so confused. She kind of reminds me of someone who would be a character on a comedy tv show.

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12 hours ago, kazza said:

Exactly. I loved that Daniel was unabashedly frank about being a weirdo and not caring about what people thought. It was refreshing. To then turn out to be a boring, common player is a bummer. Daniel, we thought you were different!

The problem is in introducing Daniel late in the game. There are a lot of issues with the formatting of this show, but one of the big ones is how weighted the show is to the original group of players. It seems like these are the only people who get to experiment and try to connect with a lot of people. If you arrive AFTER a rose ceremony you're pretty much scrambling to find one person who will like you. Daniel was pretty much stuck with Lacey from the get-go and had to put all his eggs in one basket (and play the boring, couple part because that's what she wanted). 

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10 hours ago, AllyCat7 said:

True...agree with you and the others who are defending D-Lo. She didn't do anything super terrible. Dean did say he was single and taking a break from Kristina. He is the one that was flip-flopping and playing the girls. And I say this as a girl who HAS hated an "other girl" in real life because she actually DID do me dirty. In this case, D-Lo didn't play dirty.

I agree for the most part. Yet when Raven was trying to explain this to Kristina she gets labeled as the mean and nasty girl. Admittedly it wasn't the best time to tell her as they were so intoxicated and it was right after the breakup but Kristina did call Raven over. It's not like Raven made it a point to have her opinion heard. She was trying to explain her view calmly and things only got ugly after Kristina started raising her voice. Raven was reacting to that and it carried over to the bar area.

10 hours ago, AllyCat7 said:

Christen, for all her niceness and sincerity, seemed a bit "off" to me...mostly from the clip of her in the intro (she just seems not entirely "with it" during that clip) and then her reaction to Jack at the end just confirmed it for me.

 

37 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Yeah Christen gives off dumb girl vibes. Her eyes are so vacant and she always looks so confused. She kind of reminds me of someone who would be a character on a comedy tv show.

I agree. I noticed this during the after show as well. She seemed to be zoned out the entire time. In different camera shots of the contestants she seemed to be in her own little world. In one instance when everyone else was happy and clapping for a nice moment she sat there like a statue staring off into space. And her reaction to Jack Stone's invitation was bizarre. I never particularly liked or disliked Kristen but she really does come across as a airhead.

Edited by yorklee2
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31 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

Yet when Raven was trying to explain this to Kristina she gets labeled as the mean and nasty girl. Admittedly it wasn't the best time to tell her as they were so intoxicated and it was right after the breakup but Kristina did call Raven over. It's not like Raven made it a point to have her opinion heard. She was trying to explain her view calmly and things only got ugly after Kristina started raising her voice. Raven was reacting to that and it carried over to the bar area.

This!

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12 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

I think we had a case of cold feet and may have had a proposal ready but backed out.

This could be true but if it was planned before hand and she backed out then they had to be doing a lot of acting for the camera. Adam seemed genuinely surprised when he realized Raven's parents were there. Also if it was a planned proposal gone south then why would the show still bring them on? That makes no sense to me. And they seemed pretty happy and at ease for a couple where one has presumably just backed out of a marriage proposal. No obvious tension. There would have to have been acting on the parents part also as things would have seemed strained in my opinion. But they all seemed happy to me. Like I said it could be true as this show is well known for manufacturing scenes but I have my doubts.

Edited by yorklee2
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53 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

This could be true but if it was planned before hand and she backed out then they had to be doing a lot of acting for the camera. Adam seemed genuinely surprised when he realized Raven's parents were there. Also if it was a planned proposal gone south then why would the show still bring them on? That makes no sense to me. And they seemed pretty happy and at ease for a couple where one has presumably just backed out of a marriage proposal. No obvious tension. There would have to have been acting on the parents part also as things would have seemed strained in my opinion. But they all seemed happy to me. Like I said it could be true as this show is well known for manufacturing scenes but I have my doubts.

If the show is edited together after the fact, I'm not sure why they bothered to leave that bit in. We never even heard the parents speak or react to Adam, so what was the point?

We didn't hear from a bunch of people who were actually on the show, but it was urgent to show a contestant's parents for no reason at all?

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1 hour ago, yorklee2 said:

Yet when Raven was trying to explain this to Kristina she gets labeled as the mean and nasty girl. Admittedly it wasn't the best time to tell her as they were so intoxicated and it was right after the breakup but Kristina did call Raven over.

The trouble with what Raven did was, she just wouldn't let it go. It was clearly not the right time to reason with Kristina as she wasn't going to hear it. Raven should have just dropped it but she kept pushing it. Why? Who cares if Kristina blames DLo in that moment. Tomorrow she might cool down enough to listen to reason. But Raven was too drunk and too full of her own importance and had to keep pushing it as if it was her purpose in life to make Kristina feel even worse than she did. Let the girl get it out of her system, then explain to her that maybe her anger is misdirected. Kristina was spot on with one thing. They needed to have that conversation sober. Nothing ever gets accomplished during drunken rants.

Raven wasn't mean or nasty, just not a good friend in that moment. The next day was a better time to have that talk but Raven had already blown it by then. There was no way Kristina was going to listen to her after that mess. I doubt Raven cares. She strikes me as the type who just likes to hear herself talk. She's like Taylor minus the degree to flaunt around.

Edited by Mabinogia
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51 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

The trouble with what Raven did was, she just wouldn't let it go. It was clearly not the right time to reason with Kristina as she wasn't going to hear it. Raven should have just dropped it but she kept pushing it. Why? Who cares if Kristina blames DLo in that moment. Tomorrow she might cool down enough to listen to reason. But Raven was too drunk and too full of her own importance and had to keep pushing it as if it was her purpose in life to make Kristina feel even worse than she did. Let the girl get it out of her system, then explain to her that maybe her anger is misdirected. Kristina was spot on with one thing. They needed to have that conversation sober. Nothing ever gets accomplished during drunken rants.

Raven wasn't mean or nasty, just not a good friend in that moment. The next day was a better time to have that talk but Raven had already blown it by then. There was no way Kristina was going to listen to her after that mess. I doubt Raven cares. She strikes me as the type who just likes to hear herself talk. She's like Taylor minus the degree to flaunt around.

I don't agree obviously. To me Raven is nothing like Taylor. Taylor followed Lacey when she was upset to try to rub it in but Kristina specifically said in either the ITM or voice over that she had asked Raven to come sit with her. So I deduce from that that Kristina considered her a friend if not a close friend but then when Raven is not telling her what she wants to hear she screams at Raven, "you were never my friend". And Raven was talking calmly to her until Kristina started raising her voice so I don't see that as pushing the issue or trying to forcefully inject her opinion on Kristina. Raven wasn't acting so much like she wouldn't let it go but more so defending her position as Kristina was increasingly getting defensive and loud in my opinion. And as I stated before I do agree it probably wasn't the right time to give her opinion regardless if she agreed or not but alcohol clouds your judgement. I think Raven meant well and don't believe she was talking to hear herself talk or trying to lord it over Kristina with psycho babble as Taylor does.  If that were so, like Taylor, she would have injected herself or made a point to seek Kristina out to voice her opinion.

Edited by yorklee2
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25 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

Raven wasn't acting so much like she wouldn't let it go but more so defending her position as Kristina was increasingly getting defensive and loud in my opinion.

In my opinion as well.  Admittedly, I was never a Kristina fan, but in this instance I think she was acting like a spoiled brat, like maybe because of her childhood at the orphanage her parents went overboard to try to make her happy & now she's not used to hearing something she doesn't like.

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4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

In my opinion as well.  Admittedly, I was never a Kristina fan, but in this instance I think she was acting like a spoiled brat, like maybe because of her childhood at the orphanage her parents went overboard to try to make her happy & now she's not used to hearing something she doesn't like.

I always liked Kristina but I can see your point here. If that's the case then she's going to have to learn some more hard lessons in life. Things don't always go the way you like. Sometimes you have to take some hard times, guys can be a__holes, and other countless things. I know she was hurting in the moment but hopefully in time she will look back and realize Raven was right and cringe at the thought of Dean. 

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This was so boring it took me this long to respond. I have long said that Bachelor Pad was a much better show. Some of it was about finding dates, but most of it was silly games and contests and thinking about strategies for staying on the show. This whole season has been a downer and the finale especially so. When they made the change to 'you must pair up and get married' it became more like The Spouse House. The concept of leaving together to see what happens is so vague that it is no different than just leaving by yourself. What the hell does it even mean, fly out on the same airplane?

I find Christian to be unattractive and dull so her refusing to even consider Jack Stone was annoying. He is attractive, nice and a lawyer. These people get big heads and think something better is around the corner-it's not. I also think Robby is ridiculous looking but he seemed like a nice guy and Amanda acting so horrified that he liked her was just annoying. I wish Taylor and Derek the best but she is so high maintenance it will take a special guy to put up with her. Add in the age difference and I just don't see it. Adam and Raven are both just average in every way and they might make it in a real person way. I didn't make anything out of her parents being there-they probably requested tickets and Harrison brought them out to try to make some kind of moment out of it.

My biggest WTF of the season was how Ben Z was handled. When I first saw him on the Bachelorette I thought he was really hot and seemed intelligent and nice. The whole dog thing seemed incredibly scripted and the idea that not one single woman had interest in him seemed fake. I can only guess he had a girlfriend at home and was brought on to fill a quota. Zero interest in hearing anything from Corinne and/or DeMario but especially Corinne. 

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4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

When they made the change to 'you must pair up and get married' it became more like The Spouse House. The concept of leaving together to see what happens is so vague that it is no different than just leaving by yourself. What the hell does it even mean, fly out on the same airplane?

My biggest WTF of the season was how Ben Z was handled. When I first saw him on the Bachelorette I thought he was really hot and seemed intelligent and nice. The whole dog thing seemed incredibly scripted and the idea that not one single woman had interest in him seemed fake. I can only guess he had a girlfriend at home and was brought on to fill a quota. Zero interest in hearing anything from Corinne and/or DeMario but especially Corinne. 

I know!  It's like what happens if you make the decision to leave together....someone monitors you at the airport to be sure you are still together?  I'm sure even the most connected couples would need to go home to their individual regular lives to figure things out.  I guess the only difference between leaving together and leaving by yourself is that you bypass the fantasy suite and the filming that goes along with it.   The thing is I'm sure at least 90% of the guys in BIP have no intentions of getting married...just having a good time, getting to perhaps be "famous", and maybe finding someone to hook up with in Mexico and possibly continue seeing on vacations or Bachelor Nation events down the line. 

Maybe Ben Z and Chase Wells were only there for exposure in case Arie or Peter didn't work out for The Bachelor.

Edited by Palomar
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13 hours ago, AllyCat7 said:

True...agree with you and the others who are defending D-Lo. She didn't do anything super terrible. Dean did say he was single and taking a break from Kristina. He is the one that was flip-flopping and playing the girls. And I say this as a girl who HAS hated an "other girl" in real life because she actually DID do me dirty. In this case, D-Lo didn't play dirty. Sorry. Anyway, I hope both girls find a good man in the future and I hope Dean STAYS SINGLE and gets some therapy.

Dean drove me nuts with his whole "I hate myself right now" shtick. No, Dean, you don't. Why do I know this? Because if you were really sorry about this kind of behavior, YOU WOULDN'T KEEP DOING IT.

15 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

It was in a Neil Lane box, so if nothing else he likely got a discount. But I think it was likely paid for by the show since he proposed on it. 

There would be no way to show the ring purchasing without giving away the Big Surprise.

20 hours ago, kingshearte said:

The break-ups were a bit odd to watch, as so many of them seemed to basically blindside the person getting dumped. The Jack and Christen one was possibly the weirdest, though. He's all "I would like to date you." And she's all "Wait, what? Date? I thought we were just friends. If that." Which is particularly weird because she goes on to point out that friends don't run around holding hands... but apparently they do make out?

I've known women like Christen: they only want the guys they can't have. As soon as the guy actually become available, they lose interest. It's a way of being wanted and desired without having to follow through on the responsibilities of a relationship. And don't even get me started on someone who flaunts her virginity whilst going on a hookup show.

22 hours ago, Sweet-tea said:

I think her primary motivation is to be on TV. Perhaps she thinks if she shows up enough, she'll be considered for The Bachelorette. Her baby voice drives me crazy. Do men really like that? Never mind... yes, I've heard they do. 

I would probably boycott an Amanda season: Her stupid baby voice whining about how much she misses her daughters when she leaves them for weeks on end to go on trashy reality shows.

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2 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

Raven wasn't acting so much like she wouldn't let it go but more so defending her position as Kristina was increasingly getting defensive and loud in my opinion.

But why would she need to defend her position? I just don't understand why she couldn't see Kristina was hurting and give her support. Then again, Kristina was right. They aren't friends so I guess Raven felt it was fine to keep hounding Kristina with logic when Kristina was in no fit state to be logical. It was just selfish on Raven's part to feel the need to defend her position in something that had nothing at all to do with her to someone who was clearly hurting. She could easily have just let Kristina rant and get it out of her system or simply said she doesn't agree and walk away. Instead she argued with an irrational person.

People in this day and age cannot seem to just walk away. The internet has made us all feel like we need to share everything that is in our head at all times when sometimes it's best to just let it go.

 I'm just glad this season is over because I really only ended up liking Jack Stone and Ben Z. Even people I liked going in, Kristina, Daniel, Wells, went downhill fast. Oh, I still like Danielle M (the one who was smart enough to leave and do something useful with her time). I don't think anyone really comes out of this shit show looking good, unless they leave quickly.

Edited by Mabinogia
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3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

But why would she need to defend her position? I just don't understand why she couldn't see Kristina was hurting and give her support. Then again, Kristina was right. They aren't friends so I guess Raven felt it was fine to keep hounding Kristina with logic when Kristina was in no fit state to be logical. It was just selfish on Raven's part to feel the need to defend her position in something that had nothing at all to do with her to someone who was clearly hurting. She could easily have just let Kristina rant and get it out of her system or simply said she doesn't agree and walk away. Instead she argued with an irrational person.

She felt the need to defend her position because when someone is raising their voice and getting defensive with you human nature is to defend your position. Yes she could have walked off and let it go but alcohol wasn't making either one of them think clearly. And she did walk off after she saw Kristina was getting defensive and loud. I watched it over and Kristina stated she asked Raven over to ask her about something DLo or Dean had said. She injected Raven into the situation. When Raven walked off and people were asking her what was going on only then did she state what had happened. Wells was listening and though he felt sorry for Kristina he immediately asked her why she was chasing someone who wasn't chasing her. So he was essentially agreeing with Raven. It was an unfortunate situation that got out of control but to say Raven wasn't being her friend or just wanting to hear herself talk is not right in my opinion.

Edited by yorklee2
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3 minutes ago, yorklee2 said:

Wells was listening and though he felt sorry for Kristina he immediately asked her why she was chasing someone who wasn't chasing her.

Raven's position was basically "don't take it out on the other woman," while Wells pretty much said "sorry, girl, Dean doesn't want you," yet Raven is somehow mean.

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