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S14.E14: Top 4 Perform

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Lex and Koine are great together, and that's why the show never put them together,  except for a Disco that almost literally killed them and a Broadway that was danced early so the producers hoped it would be as forgettable as a badly danced cha cha.

Edited by Andie1
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2 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Lex and Koine are great together, and that's why the show never put them together,  except for a Disco that almost literally killed them and a Broadway that was danced early so the producers hoped it would be as forgettable as a badly danced cha cha.

Koine simply sparkles and manages to spark with everybody.  IMO her pairing with Marko was magic because they both have IT.  I have to think she has a huge career waiting for her if that's what she wants, irregardless of what manipulations have gone on this season.

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I agree she has that intangible quality makes watching her a joy.  She is a star, not a back up dancer brought in to make someone else look good, but that is how she's been portrayed.  It was interesting, when Mary Murphy was interviewed last week she said everyone loved Kiki but she said after the show she has an on line forum on FB and everyone liked that door dance where Koine and Marko twirled.  Then went back to talking about Kiki.  Koine and Marko got too much praise for the Door dance, that's why no encore for votes.

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I think I am actually insulted that TPTB are going to try and feed me a load of crap that they didn’t know of the romance between Lex and Taylor.  C’mon really?!?!?  You can’t tell me that before the season aired and the top 10 announced that there wasn’t some intern that researched all the potential contestants to make sure there were no scandalous skeletons in somebody’s closet.   Especially since I think it has been stated on this board that it was documented on social media.

I was tad underwhelmed by this season. There weren’t that many performances that I would go back and watch again.  I am fine with any of the top 4 winning (less so KiKi) and this is the first time I didn’t have a favorite. 

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I would love to see Koine win and I feel she would be deserving.  I expect Lex to win, and I can respect that.  There's no denying he has tremendous technique, along with a really special individual quality to his movement.  I really don't expect that there's a likelihood of Taylor winning, although I do respect her skills, her training and her work ethic.   It would not surprise me to have the switch flip very suddenly one day for her and if it does and she starts emoting she will soar.  Kiki did a nice job last night and it seems like he's a nice enough guy.  I won't respect his win as anything more than an orchestrated campaign of votes and manipulation by production.

If the story we're being sold is actually true, that he decided to audition for himself on the spot on the day, then it's a shame he didn't think about it even six weeks ahead of time, preferably at least six months, and seriously pursue some classes in the other genres and some basic ballet technique.  I just can't credit that the story they've been selling us on Kiki is true.  I would expect someone pursuing ballroom at that level would have had some level of familiarity with basic ballet form and leaps and turns.

IMO the show has problem when someone who has been here since episode two of the entire series, relishing every moment of showcasing so many varieties of dance on television all the way, isn't willing to accept what producers are placing on screen as credible.  It makes me angry because it risks turning off interest in real dance artistry as more fake manipulations that are the stock in trade of Dance Moms.  Be better, SYTYCD.

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3 hours ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

I think I am actually insulted that TPTB are going to try and feed me a load of crap that they didn’t know of the romance between Lex and Taylor.  C’mon really?!?!?  You can’t tell me that before the season aired and the top 10 announced that there wasn’t some intern that researched all the potential contestants to make sure there were no scandalous skeletons in somebody’s closet.   Especially since I think it has been stated on this board that it was documented on social media.

My take is different here: I think it's almost certain that the show runners knew of the relationship, but that they chose not to exploit it. Usually, the PA's at most reality shows go over the stories that the contestants are willing to share. I also expect that the show would have been asking repeatedly to check if Lex and Taylor were willing to share. If that's the case, good on the show for respecting the couple's wishes. But who knows.

Also, good on Nigel for toning down the Uncle Pervy this season.

I've thought every season since the ill-favored venture into the Fall network line-up in season six would be the last. For all its faults, it's still the best dance show on TV, and so I hope it remains a summer-time perennial. And, for all their faults, Nigel and Mary are still good judges of dance when they deign to do so. If only we could clutch Misty back from the dark side that was WoD.

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31 minutes ago, Mertseger said:

I also expect that the show would have been asking repeatedly to check if Lex and Taylor were willing to share. If that's the case, good on the show for respecting the couple's wishes. But who knows.

Lex was interviewed early in the season  (August 15 )and confirmed their relationship on camera. It was never hidden, it was certainly well known,  but for a choreographer to fake that she didn't know was just a way to do schlocky bad choreography and get votes for it.  Mia would be well aware of them and their relationship .

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There is nothing sultry about Taylor.  I know it's not her fault but she is just too tall to resonate with me as an interesting dancer especially compared to that firecracker Koine.

And I thought the cha cha was terrible and Taylor did not look authentic in the least.  She looked like she was trying way too hard to be sexy.

I would love to shoot Kiki, Gabi, Jenna and Taylor to the moon.

Daddy Kiki is gross and should never be a thing.

The Broadway was AMAZING and made me smile from the jump when Koine absentmindedly scratched her thigh when she went to answer the door.

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8 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Lex and Koine are great together, and that's why the show never put them together,  except for a Disco that almost literally killed them and a Broadway that was danced early so the producers hoped it would be as forgettable as a badly danced cha cha.

I have a feeling Lex and Koine's Broadway routine will not be forgotten. It was absolutely delightful and the humor didn't knock me over the head but was just perfect. It was perfectly danced too, IMHO. Just loved it!

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I need Jasmine and Comfort to do another who runstheworld routine. Best female duet ever on sytycd, those chicks were working the opening dance, both amazing dancers.

The standout contestant to me of the night would go to kione. I  know its a longshot but I really want her to win out of the four because the over pimping of Lex, Taylor and Kiki all season has been hard to watch this season and to want watch again after this season is over.

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Still thinking the winner of this particular season only wins the title: "America's Favorite Dancer" and nothing more than that.  All the Top 10 go on tour, so maybe (just maybe) the winner gets to do a couple more dances than the rest, which only matters if they get paid by the number of dances.  I'd be a lot more invested in who wins if I knew they were getting something for it, even just $100,000 and a new car. 

Anyway, my favorite dance from last night was Lex and Koine's broadway, no suprise. My second favorite dance was Koine and Marco's African jazz.  I loved it the first time, and the reprise was even better.   My third place dance did surprise me: it was Lex and Kiki's hip hop.  Both guys looked to be having a blast, Lex was wonderful and Kiki did much better than expected. After their dance, I laughed so much when Kiki kept bending over, holding his coattails out behind him and doing that backwards scoot move.  Lex joined him both times, but only with Kiki's prompting.  It was the first time I've liked Kiki.  I decided Kiki had more chemistry dancing with Lex than he's shown with anyone else, and Lex had more chemistry with Koine than anyone else.     Yep, both guys would have benefited a lot from partner change-ups throughout the season, and it's a shame they didn't have the growth opportunity.  The only solo I really liked was Lex's, and I thought Koine kicked Taylor's butt in their jazz duet.

So, I guess that, for me, based on last night I'd pick Lex to win the title because he figured in 3 of my favorite routines, counting the solo.  I'd choose Koine for second place, Kiki third, and Taylor fourth.  For me, Lex started out with so much promise in his audition and academy rounds, then left me mostly disappointed in the live shows, except for his solos.  He's a hugely talented dancer, but he needs a lot more partner work, performance work, and improved upper body strength so he doesn't visibly struggle with lifts.  I was surprised by how much he struggled lifting even Koine., as small as she is. 

As long as either Taylor or Kiki don't come in first place, I won't be too upset about the results.

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I thought Koine was better than Taylor in their duet. The second to the last pose really exemplified that. Taylor just kind of leaned her head back while Koine got down, using her quads and her back. To me, Taylor's bad technique here is as egregious as Kiki's leap.

 

sytycd 3.jpg

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I'm currently watching, and have to say I like the opening number. Never would of guessed it's Nappytabs, because I thought they wouldn't coreograph this season.

Kiki talking with Jenna is stil so eeek to me. 

As for the judges, I never listen to Vanessa. Sometimes I listen few sentences from Mary and Nigel, because it helps to know who's staying or going

I like Koine and would like her to win, but I think she will end up 3rd or 4th

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4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought Koine was better than Taylor in their duet. The second to the last pose really exemplified that. Taylor just kind of leaned her head back while Koine got down, using her quads and her back. To me, Taylor's bad technique here is as egregious as Kiki's leap.

 

sytycd 3.jpg

Perfectly illustrates that Koine not only dances full out all of the time, but no doubt she felt the pressure of pushing the limits against a dancer who merely had to extend an arm and a leg to evoke long lines Koine could not physically bring.  That's exactly what I was frustrated with from Kaylee in the shadow dance with Logan.  She had the chops, she elected not to use them and I cannot respect that.  Koine made every inch she has work double to create the lines.  

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13 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

I'd be a lot more invested in who wins if I knew they were getting something for it, even just $100,000 and a new car. 

Nigel said the winner gets $250,000.00 in an interview I believe with Kristyn Burtt.

13 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

My third place dance did surprise me: it was Lex and Kiki's hip hop.  Both guys looked to be having a blast, Lex was wonderful and Kiki did much better than expected. 

I just can't give it up to Kiki, he was wearing a long coat for a reason. The guy has horrible technique in hip hop and they had to cover him up.  Lex, in contrast had the dance  dumbed down to about a child level, so I wasn't as impressed. I don't want a guy getting a quarter of a million dollars for sticking his ass out.  I wanted to see something really good from Koine and Lex, like the old Luther Brown who did an incredible number same shiny outfits, but skin tight on SYTYCDC so you can actually see what they are doing.

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10 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

I'm currently watching, and have to say I like the opening number. Never would of guessed it's Nappytabs, because I thought they wouldn't coreograph this season.

Nappytabs was totally "inspired" by Kinjaz on that piece, or you could say they ripped the concept from them.  It was really good.  Oh and of the four Koine absolutely smashed the choreo on this.  Damn we never got a dirty hip hop from her and it would have been awesome.

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought Koine was better than Taylor in their duet. The second to the last pose really exemplified that. Taylor just kind of leaned her head back while Koine got down, using her quads and her back. To me, Taylor's bad technique here is as egregious as Kiki's leap.

 

sytycd 3.jpg

Great screen cap and perfect illustration of contemporary girl who hasn't had much work in other styles versus a really versatile dancer in Koine.

Edited by Andie1
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Taylor's Dad is hot.

Kiki was great with Lex. First time I liked him.

Taylor did not do well at all in that chacha.

Will my office dress code allow me to wear those tights that make you look like you're wearing thigh high stockings?

Koine will be robbed.  That's for certain.

Edited by WhineandCheez
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8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought Koine was better than Taylor in their duet. The second to the last pose really exemplified that. Taylor just kind of leaned her head back while Koine got down, using her quads and her back. To me, Taylor's bad technique here is as egregious as Kiki's leap.

 

sytycd 3.jpg

This is a freeze frame of one moment in time devoid of any context.  I would need to watch the routine again to see where Taylor ends up in that pose.  Is it not possible that Koine just reached her finishing position before Taylor and she's still moving to that position?  I mean her left hand isn't even on the ground yet.  I'd guess she eventually ends up in the proper position.

 

16 hours ago, mojoween said:

There is nothing sultry about Taylor.  I know it's not her fault but she is just too tall to resonate with me as an interesting dancer especially compared to that firecracker Koine.

And I thought the cha cha was terrible and Taylor did not look authentic in the least.  She looked like she was trying way too hard to be sexy.

This is funny because I have a different reaction to Taylor/Koine's height difference.  Koine's shortness is distracting to me.  And Taylor's lines are incredible.  Nothing Koine does physically/athletically jumps out to me.

With that said, I agree that the cha cha was terrible.

On 9/19/2017 at 0:45 PM, Andie1 said:

Lex and Koine are great together, and that's why the show never put them together,  except for a Disco that almost literally killed them and a Broadway that was danced early so the producers hoped it would be as forgettable as a badly danced cha cha.

I get that people feel Koine has been underrated by the judges and the show but last nights Lex/Koine broadway doesn't really back that point up.  The show wasn't trying to make people forget it.  Mary called it one of the best routines in the show's history.

Edited by MV007
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In that, Broadway routine, Lex showed more joy, chemistry & personality with Koine than he did with Taylor-his actual girlfriend. 

Edited by DollEyes
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6 minutes ago, MV007 said:

 The show wasn't trying to make people forget it.  Mary called it one of the best routines in the show's history.

True. But this dance went early in the first hour, and she went on and on about Lex, and she left us thinking that Lex made it the best routine, her praise of Koine was faint at best. 

50 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

In that, Broadway routine, Lex showed more joy, chemistry & personality with Koine than he did with Taylor-his actual girlfriend. 

And no judge would talk about the chemistry Koine has with everyone she dances with.

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1 hour ago, MV007 said:

This is a freeze frame of one moment in time devoid of any context.  I would need to watch the routine again to see where Taylor ends up in that pose.  Is it not possible that Koine just reached her finishing position before Taylor and she's still moving to that position?  I mean her left hand isn't even on the ground yet.  I'd guess she eventually ends up in the proper position.

 

I just rewatched the routine, and it persisted through the piece. Koine was better with what the piece asked for overall, though I do think Taylor was better in a few parts (I'm fairly sure that Koine fell out of her turns at one point).

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9 hours ago, MV007 said:

This is funny because I have a different reaction to Taylor/Koine's height difference.  Koine's shortness is distracting to me.  And Taylor's lines are incredible.  Nothing Koine does physically/athletically jumps out to me.

Interesting because for me all of the lifts and athletic moves that Koine does is with so much precision.  From the African Jazz to the Door dance it's just been incredible from her.  For Taylor, well there's legs, but she's not a precise dancer, in the way say Amanda Cleghorn was on SYTYCDCanada, she too had legs for days but she danced every style especially ballroom very well.

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2 hours ago, fan94 said:

This is a freeze frame of one moment in time devoid of any context.  I would need to watch the routine again to see where Taylor ends up in that pose.

Please do watch it again, because I think that is the overhead shot of them ending in that pose.

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If there is a S15 -- and I hope there is -- please let the producers go back to SYTYCD Original Flavor -- no All Stars, just a variety of contestant partnerships showing off a variety of dance styles. And please, for the love of all that is holy, get a decent third judge, one who doesn't just gush. Even Jesse Tyler Ferguson was better than Hudgens-Derulo-Abdul.

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If they get renewed, I was happy to hear Nigel confirm AGAIN that he prefers 20.  I love the idea of random allstars filling out the dancing in the top ten, but this mentoring shite doesn't really work for me.  I never really see much mentoring.

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Regarding chemistry. Does anyone remember the Friends episode where Joey explains chemistry?  If they have it, they aren't doing it. And if they're doing it, it kills the chemistry on screen...rough paraphrase. Made me laugh

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13 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

Still thinking the winner of this particular season only wins the title: "America's Favorite Dancer" and nothing more than that.  All the Top 10 go on tour, so maybe (just maybe) the winner gets to do a couple more dances than the rest, which only matters if they get paid by the number of dances.  I'd be a lot more invested in who wins if I knew they were getting something for it, even just $100,000 and a new car.

 

8 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Nigel said the winner gets $250,000.00 in an interview I believe with Kristyn Burtt.

And Cat said it during the show at some point when a bunch of dancers were on the stage with her.

I loved seeing Anya.

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3 hours ago, Andie1 said:

Please do watch it again, because I think that is the overhead shot of them ending in that pose.

Oh, I agree. It wasn't I who said that. : D

3 hours ago, AllAboutMBTV said:

Even Jesse Tyler Ferguson was better than Hudgens-Derulo-Abdul.

I liked all of them except Vanessa. :P

 

I do hope they bring in actual choreographers and dancers. I liked it when they brought in Fabrice Calmels for the auditions in Season 11, and Misty Copeland. I also liked Jenna Elfman during Season 10. 

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6 hours ago, Andie1 said:

There might be a season 15 after all,

Is Nigel tipping his hand a bit? ... it sounds like Lex has won.

https://www.dancenetwork.tv/Catalog/FreeMedia/598

Surprised that Nigel made the statement about Koine.  He made it seem like it was all an American vote-thing because she wasn't on their radar.  In the 1st performance week, there were 4 contestants who got OTT praise--Lex, Taylor, Kiki and Koine.  So obviously they were aware of her abilities.

3 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

If they get renewed, I was happy to hear Nigel confirm AGAIN that he prefers 20.  I love the idea of random allstars filling out the dancing in the top ten, but this mentoring shite doesn't really work for me.  I never really see much mentoring.

T20 would be nice but my #1 w/b fair treatment and critiques.   Don't have your chosen ones before the competition starts and then push them on everyone each week.  Reduce the audition episodes.  In that way, there will be no need for double elimination nor will it run into dwts.  Also, before the dances for that week, have like a "look for" segment of the styles with demonstrators, even if it becomes redundant.  Then, the choreographer should let the viewers know what is a must for their routine (besides the emotions).  MAYBE this will force the judges to be more honest and forthcoming.

Edited by crossover
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Jason Derulo, for my money, is the template of how to do it.  When he started as a judge, he was very close to being as annoying as Vanessa.  I suspect that he watched his performance and learned from it -- by the end of his season, he was the judge I didn't ff through.  Unfortunately, this season, I'm ffing through them all.

In that Kristyn B interview with Nigel linked above, Nigel maintains that he did not know that Lex and Taylor were dating at all and he doesn't seem to be lying.  Very very odd.  She calls him out completely.  I feel that usually I can tell whether Nigel's lying, but he was well prepared to do it this time or he is not lying.  I still can't believe that Mia didn't know.

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On 9/19/2017 at 11:27 AM, Andie1 said:

The African Jazz wasn't her favorite, in an interview last week both her and Marco said it was the door dance that was their favorite, but editing any questions as to why African Jazz was picked was because it was the one the judges wanted. 

I'm quoting myself because I just saw this video and Koine and Marco explain the reasons why they picked the African Jazz- to show different aspects and they could do something so difficult again and nail it. (and they did better the second time, especially on the back flip )  Anyway, they didn't specifically say it was their favorite but I stand corrected -- they chose it, not the producers.   Also  Marco said Koine is the female version of himself.  I agree! 

https://www.dancenetwork.tv/Catalog/FreeMedia/608

44 minutes ago, crossover said:

Surprised that Nigel made the statement about Koine.  He made it seem like it was all an American vote-thing because she wasn't on their radar.  In the 1st performance week, there were 4 contestants who got OTT praise--Lex, Taylor, Kiki and Koine.  So obviously they were aware of her abilities.

I am trying to figure out why Nigel said that, but he probably got a lot backlash for getting rid of Logan.  He'd never say that Kiki shouldn't be there,  Koine is the whipping girl for that.

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20 minutes ago, crowceilidh said:

In that Kristyn B interview with Nigel linked above, Nigel maintains that he did not know that Lex and Taylor were dating at all and he doesn't seem to be lying.  Very very odd.  She calls him out completely. 

I am a skeptic.  A romance between Lex and Taylor is fodder for tabloids,  Nigel even mentions TMZ, and how it won't be on there now.  It's all about publicity, and I think Nigel wanted juicy gossip to get out there so tongues will wag enough for people to tune in.  But Kristyn gave him the lunch bag letdown, the teenies that care about it already know about it and are watching and voting anyway.

Edited by Andie1

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17 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I thought Koine was better than Taylor in their duet. The second to the last pose really exemplified that. Taylor just kind of leaned her head back while Koine got down, using her quads and her back. To me, Taylor's bad technique here is as egregious as Kiki's leap.

 

sytycd 3.jpg

 

9 hours ago, MV007 said:

This is a freeze frame of one moment in time devoid of any context.  I would need to watch the routine again to see where Taylor ends up in that pose.  Is it not possible that Koine just reached her finishing position before Taylor and she's still moving to that position?  I mean her left hand isn't even on the ground yet.  I'd guess she eventually ends up in the proper position.

Feel free to take 90 seconds out of your day to watch the routine again if you think that I'm using this screencap out of context. They hold this pose for four counts and this is the position that Taylor is in for the entire time.

4 hours ago, kechara said:

Regarding chemistry. Does anyone remember the Friends episode where Joey explains chemistry?  If they have it, they aren't doing it. And if they're doing it, it kills the chemistry on screen...rough paraphrase. Made me laugh

Skip ahead to 2:20 if you just want to hear Joey's explanation:

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I only caught most of the routines on YouTube, so I missed the pre-dance package and judges' comments for Lex and Taylor but...didn't they already do a whole big thing about them dating weeks ago when they danced together the first time? The show talked about it, I thought it also came up in the context of the dance being created (at least, they talked about it on camera). Is SYTYCD itself now acting as though that never happened?

As for this week's show, Koine ftw and all that. Adored the Broadway with Lex -- it was his best pure performance all season, and confirms that she can generate chemistry with anyone. I also preferred her approach to the jazz; her grounded technique works very well with the style.

Also, the hip hop was the first time I enjoyed Kiki out of ballroom, entirely in spite of myself. It was not hardcore or high level, but it was kinda fun.

Edited by lavenderblue
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I thought Mia was unrecognizable. 

Yeah, if I ever have $10,000 laying round and decide to get a facelift, please everyone here stop me. And as a woman of age I ask you this--if a woman who teaches dance/choreographs all day long as her job gains a bunch of weight as she ages, what hope is there for me?  (IE: Mandy Moore, Doriana S, Mia)  I mean, they are moving all day long presumably, but my can is parked at a desk!

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10 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

I only caught most of the routines on YouTube, so I missed the pre-dance package and judges' comments for Lex and Taylor but...didn't they already do a whole big thing about them dating weeks ago when they danced together the first time? The show talked about it, I thought it also came up in the context of the dance being created (at least, they talked about it on camera). Is SYTYCD itself now acting as though that never happened?

As for this week's show, Koine ftw and all that. Adored the Broadway with Lex -- it was his best pure performance all season, and confirms that she can generate chemistry with anyone. I also preferred her approach to the jazz; her grounded technique works very well with the style.

Also, the hip hop was the first time I enjoyed Kiki out of ballroom, entirely in spite of myself. It was not hardcore or high level, but it was kinda fun.

Thank you for making me think I'm not losing it for thinking they showed the fact they were dating weeks ago on the show.  If I am losing it, please just leave me in my happy little delusion.

 

For me, the show is about enjoying the artistry of dance, not about critiquing physiques or questioning what people do or don't do about their looks.  I'm eager to see what a choreographer has to say with their work -- and I sure as hell would hate to miss some of the mindblowing numbers the show has brought us because a choreographer wasn't considered "camera ready" or felt they didn't want to be seen on television because they don't look like the models in magazines. 

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For me, the show is about enjoying the artistry of dance, not about critiquing physiques or questioning what people do or don't do about their looks.  I'm eager to see what a choreographer has to say with their work -- and I sure as hell would hate to miss some of the mindblowing numbers the show has brought us because a choreographer wasn't considered "camera ready" or felt they didn't want to be seen on television because they don't look like the models in magazines. 

I don't think any of us are saying we don't want to see Mia (and if we are, it's not about her appearance).  It's just that she has really disappeared and the bad facework and weight gain may be why.  Also, she herself may be the reason she has pulled out of being in front of the cameras not tptb.  Back in her heyday on the show, I remember quite a lot of talk from her in interviews about her own appearance and about her troubles with not having a more typical dancer's body.

Edited by crowceilidh
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Wasn't The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face the George Michael version (my second fave!) last time? I know music can change for legal reasons - like it says in the end credits - but does anyone know why the version was changed to an inferior (IMO) one?

Edited by marriedaniac

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1 hour ago, marriedaniac said:

Wasn't The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face the George Michael version (my second fave!) last time? I know music can change for legal reasons - like it says in the end credits - but does anyone know why the version was changed to an inferior (IMO) one?

It was the George Michael vocal the first time.  No idea why the change.

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16 hours ago, Andie1 said:

I'm quoting myself because I just saw this video and Koine and Marco explain the reasons why they picked the African Jazz- to show different aspects and they could do something so difficult again and nail it. (and they did better the second time, especially on the back flip )  Anyway, they didn't specifically say it was their favorite but I stand corrected -- they chose it, not the producers.   Also  Marco said Koine is the female version of himself.  I agree! 

https://www.dancenetwork.tv/Catalog/FreeMedia/608

I am trying to figure out why Nigel said that, but he probably got a lot backlash for getting rid of Logan.  He'd never say that Kiki shouldn't be there,  Koine is the whipping girl for that.

Koine is like the female Marko.  She can do anything and has chemistry with all her partners.  Unfortunately, just like Marko, the judges gave her good reviews but not outstanding ones.  I think Nigel was surprised that Koine was there because he thought Logan would be the 4th contestant.  They gave Koine two ballroom numbers in a row right before final four.  So I think they didn't expect her to be there.  I did miss Logan in the finals but thought he should have taken either Kiki's or Taylor's place.  Love how Kristyn noticed how much variety Koine showed and she killed it each time.

Despite Koine showing versatility, I think the teen girls will vote for Taylor over her.  They probably loved Mia's piece with Lex and her kissing all the time (bleh!!) because it's so romantic.  Taylor also did the Travis' contemporary.  I did notice how lovely Taylor is in that piece the first time she did it.  She does have legs and uses it.  This is the type of contemporary that teen girls vote for.  They don't care about emotions, etc.  I did think Taylor perfomed it better the second time and their lifts were better.  But the reason why teen girls vote for it is because of leg extensions.  They are always practicing their HMVs and tricks for competition routines.  Also, I remember Tiffany and Hayley always missing the bottom because girls must relate to them.  I didn't think that either one was outstanding enough to always get voted in.  Taylor looks like those two.  I guess people could say that Katee was the top female in Season 4 but I did think that Joshua and her had outstanding routines.  They were the couple to beat that season.

Back to Taylor and Koine's duet, I said before that I thought Koine was better.  Her pirouettes are faster and sharper.  I don't think she fell out of any of them.  Koine also captured the details and nuances for that style.  As somebody else pointed out, she puts her all into routines so that one pose showed the difference.  Koine was sexy and sassy while Taylor tried to be sexy.  Where Taylor looks better is when they do have to extend a leg because her legs are just longer.  But if you look at the angle of their legs, she's not better.  I also don't know if they were supposed to do Russians (a la seconde turns) during their turn sequence.  Because if they were, then both of them did them badly.  But since they were doing the same thing, I guess it was choreographed that way and they were not doing Russians.

Edited by realdancemom
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5 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

I don't think any of us are saying we don't want to see Mia (and if we are, it's not about her appearance).  It's just that she has really disappeared and the bad facework and weight gain may be why.  Also, she herself may be the reason she has pulled out of being in front of the cameras not tptb.  Back in her heyday on the show, I remember quite a lot of talk from her in interviews about her own appearance and about her troubles with not having a more typical dancer's body.

I'm sure it is very hard for female dancers to age, especially if they were not blessed with exceptional metabolisms. Plus exercise and moving alone does not ensure the incredible shape these kids are in. Their joints will allow them to jump higher and, dance longer, so they expend more calories; but the kicker is, they can also get away with eating junk. I am not a dancer, nor was I blessed with a dancer's metabolism. Every year I age, I have to fight harder to stay in shape and see if I can drop another pound. Exercise and movement keeps me healthy, as it appears to keep the choreographers healthy. For the rest, you're battling genetics and food...

(That said, I too find it discouraging :-))

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48 minutes ago, Mason said:

I'm sure it is very hard for female dancers to age, especially if they were not blessed with exceptional metabolisms. Plus exercise and moving alone does not ensure the incredible shape these kids are in. Their joints will allow them to jump higher and, dance longer, so they expend more calories; but the kicker is, they can also get away with eating junk. I am not a dancer, nor was I blessed with a dancer's metabolism. Every year I age, I have to fight harder to stay in shape and see if I can drop another pound. Exercise and movement keeps me healthy, as it appears to keep the choreographers healthy. For the rest, you're battling genetics and food...

(That said, I too find it discouraging :-))

Stupid metabolisms and growing older.  I also remember being able to eat anything I want but still stay thin when I was younger.  It gets harder with every decade.

In regards to choreographers, they also have assistants.  So they might show a movement just once.  Or they can describe a movement and their assistants have worked with them for so long, that they can demonstrate what to do without the choreographer having to do it.  So they don't need to stay in the same physical shape as these youngsters.  Dance takes its toll on the body so after awhile, some of them can't physically do what they used to be able to do.

Sometimes dance companies also like their dancers to have similar body types especially ballet companies.  So what Mia was probably expressing is that when she was a dancer, she might not have gotten certain jobs because of her body type.  As good as Koine is, Taylor might get certain jobs over here if a company wants taller dancers.

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I totally relate to all of what has been said about dancing and metabolism!  I remember looking at my ballroom dance instructor when I was very young and I admired how fit she was. As she grew older the body changed and it was very cruel the way people would say  to her "you're a dance instructor?  I'd never guess. "  Of course she didn't have the body she had when her and her brother won competitions, but what I noticed  is the old pictures of winning competitions were still up, she would use competition pictures to advertise her studio, so yeah, it is a bit jarring, like watching an old movie thinking the actors will stay young forever.  The pressure to stay young forever is especially tough for dancers. 

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2 hours ago, realdancemom said:

I didn't think that either one was outstanding enough to always get voted in.  Taylor looks like those two.

-and that is a big hurdle for any dancer who is competing for the prize

Edited by Andie1 · Reason: second thoughts

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I finally got to see the show.  Kiki held his own and reinforced that he is a superb partner.  He did his thing and framed his partners beautifully and helped Taylor look, well, adequate.  Her cha cha was not very good.  And I think Koine far out performed her in their number.  It seems to me that Koine is the most professional dancer left.  She really can do everything very well, but hasn't seemed to excite the judges. Taylor, and to some extent Lex, with their solo contemporary backgrounds, are still working through partnering and upper body control.  For instance, Lex's tap was terrific, but his arms were all over the place and in general his lifts need work.  Taylor's hip movements need practice as well. It's probably age combined with less experience.   Lex for the win.

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48 minutes ago, Pattycake2 said:

For instance, Lex's tap was terrific, but his arms were all over the place and in general his lifts need work.

I agree about lifts, but I think the way Lex carried his arms in his tap was better than Gaby's. Really showed his ballet background.

Edited by fan94

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On 9/20/2017 at 1:13 PM, MV007 said:

This is a freeze frame of one moment in time devoid of any context.  I would need to watch the routine again to see where Taylor ends up in that pose.  Is it not possible that Koine just reached her finishing position before Taylor and she's still moving to that position?  I mean her left hand isn't even on the ground yet.  I'd guess she eventually ends up in the proper position.

 

This is funny because I have a different reaction to Taylor/Koine's height difference.  Koine's shortness is distracting to me.  And Taylor's lines are incredible.  Nothing Koine does physically/athletically jumps out to me.

With that said, I agree that the cha cha was terrible.

I get that people feel Koine has been underrated by the judges and the show but last nights Lex/Koine broadway doesn't really back that point up.  The show wasn't trying to make people forget it.  Mary called it one of the best routines in the show's history.

I was thinking about what a picture of the next two seconds would show so thank you for putting it so well.

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3 hours ago, Kira53 said:

I was thinking about what a picture of the next two seconds would show so thank you for putting it so well.

So, I'm thinking you missed this post up thread:

On 2017-09-20 at 8:07 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Feel free to take 90 seconds out of your day to watch the routine again if you think that I'm using this screencap out of context. They hold this pose for four counts and this is the position that Taylor is in for the entire time.

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