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S02.E02: The Green-Eyed Monster

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8 hours ago, Calvada said:

Poor Victoria, she just needed a friend.  Albert wants to fill that role, but he also wants to be her husband as that role was interpreted at that time, to "guide" her.  In other words, control her.  It's amazing to think at this time in their lives, they were each only 21 years old, 22 when they had their second child. 

She really does need a friend. Someone other then her husband she could talk to about anything she wanted and not have to worry about talking to someone that might be considered political or a problem. Watching her talking to Lord M about marriage or being surprised to be pregnant again so soon. She could really use a friend. Someone with some actual real world knowledge she could use. 

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Enjoyed the Behind the scenes shorts shown after the 2 episodes.

The Silent Piano features the actor, David Oakes who plays Ernest and the musician who dubs the music in at post production.

Like it when actors actually play the piano.

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6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Like it when actors actually play the piano.

Oh, yes. Frustrating when they don't show the hands, because we don't know whether the actor is playing. Worse yet when they do it to someone like Hugh Laurie who really does play; I would like to see his hands when he plays.

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On 1/14/2018 at 11:01 PM, kassygreene said:

Um, the kid wandering the Palace was The Boy Jones.  Although I don't think he knew parkour.

Thank you for this link.  It is fun to know that one of the more ridiculous subplots actually happened.  I would not be surprised that the kid knew "parkour" before it ever had a name.

In reminding someone of what happened in this episode, I felt again the annoyance at Robert Peel's response to learning that Victoria was again with child.  I find it truly hard to believe that anyone, let alone the prime minister, would quote Genesis 3:16 to the queen, especially as a form of congratulations.  That was very heavy handed by the writers.

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I was rewatching this episode and was curious about them showing a black actor presenting the scene from Othello. I thought it was usually done in blackface, up through modern times. (Sir Laurence Olivier did it in blackface for a movie in 1969.) I checked and it turns out that there was a famous African-American actor named Ira Aldridge who performed the role in London in the time period and it is at least theoretically possible that Victoria could have seen him. Watching the scene again, sure enough, Victoria calls him Mr. Aldridge. Between that and things like the Boy Jones, it's these nice little details that make me really enjoy this show. I knew about Ada Lovelace and was glad to see her included, especially the nice little detail that she was Byron's daughter.

Edited by Kathira
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12 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Enjoyed the Behind the scenes shorts shown after the 2 episodes.

The Silent Piano features the actor, David Oakes who plays Ernest and the musician who dubs the music in at post production.

Like it when actors actually play the piano.

While I normally enjoy behind the scenes stories, I find myself being pulled out of any piano scenes now.

 

3 hours ago, Kathira said:

I knew about Ada Lovelace and was glad to see her included, especially the nice little detail that she was Byron's daughter.

They did include that then?  I missed it, when was it mentioned?

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12 minutes ago, elle said:

While I normally enjoy behind the scenes stories, I find myself being pulled out of any piano scenes now.

 

They did include that then?  I missed it, when was it mentioned?

I think Lord Melbourne mentioned it during the party scene. If my memory serves me correctly, he was talking about how she was like her mother (scientific) and then how she was like her father (likes attention).  Victoria didn't know what he meant, and that's when he dropped the Byron bomb. 

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12 hours ago, Zella said:

I think Lord Melbourne mentioned it during the party scene. If my memory serves me correctly, he was talking about how she was like her mother (scientific) and then how she was like her father (likes attention).  Victoria didn't know what he meant, and that's when he dropped the Byron bomb. 

And if anyone would know about Byron's attention seeking, it would be Lady Caroline Lamb's husband.

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18 hours ago, elle said:

Thank you for this link.  It is fun to know that one of the more ridiculous subplots actually happened.  I would not be surprised that the kid knew "parkour" before it ever had a name.

 

These are my favorites things about shows like this, and we see it pretty frequently here. The things that seem ridiculous and made up often turn out to be historically accurate (or at least have some basis in reality) and they give us viewers an excuse to learn some fun historical facts that most history books dont include. 

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7 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

And if anyone would know about Byron's attention seeking, it would be Lady Caroline Lamb's husband.

Indeed! As soon as they mentioned Ada Lovelace, I was looking forward to how it would be revealed who her parents were. I was not disappointed. 

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On 1/22/2018 at 7:02 PM, Zella said:

Indeed! As soon as they mentioned Ada Lovelace, I was looking forward to how it would be revealed who her parents were. I was not disappointed. 

But, Lord M, always the gentleman was not going to give Victoria any more information than that. He would not have wanted to share such sordid things with his queen, and he was reluctant to speak ill of the dead.

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1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

But, Lord M, always the gentleman was not going to give Victoria any more information than that. He would not have wanted to share such sordid things with his queen, and he was reluctant to speak ill of the dead.

Yes, he was a lot more gracious about it than I would have been! That was a great moment when he realized she didn't know and had to explain it as tactfully as possible. 

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On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 5:02 PM, Zella said:

Indeed! As soon as they mentioned Ada Lovelace, I was looking forward to how it would be revealed who her parents were. I was not disappointed. 

I have to wonder if Lord Melbourne ever would have met the Countess Lovelace, especially at the palace; and the episode certainly did not highlight his own traumatic connection to Lord Byron.  I realize it all happened long before Victoria was Queen. 

I just need to pile on about how dreary and distracting all the downstairs characters are.  I'd be interested in the Queen wanting to get her chef back, but why mix in the tearful dresser?  That soup did look revolting.  I had no idea that was Diana Rigg until I came here. 

ETA:  I looked up Diana Rigg on IMDB, and she played Baroness Lehzen in a television version titled "Victoria and Albert" in 2001. 

Edited by jjj
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20 hours ago, jjj said:

I have to wonder if Lord Melbourne ever would have met the Countess Lovelace, especially at the palace; and the episode certainly did not highlight his own traumatic connection to Lord Byron.  I realize it all happened long before Victoria was Queen. 

I just need to pile on about how dreary and distracting all the downstairs characters are.  I'd be interested in the Queen wanting to get her chef back, but why mix in the tearful dresser?  That soup did look revolting.  I had no idea that was Diana Rigg until I came here. 

ETA:  I looked up Diana Rigg on IMDB, and she played Baroness Lehzen in a television version titled "Victoria and Albert" in 2001. 

That used to play on BBCAmerica frequently back in the day.  The actress who plays the Queen Mother on "The Crown" played Victoria.  

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On ‎16‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 1:00 AM, iMonrey said:

I do think this show hits just the right note on how Victoria must have felt being a female sovereign. Everyone keeps telling her she has to have more babies like that's the most important thing for her to do. 

Well, it is. Any other matters can be handled by Albert or Prime minister.

On ‎16‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 8:15 PM, Razzberry said:

Since childbirth has always been dangerous (remember aunt Charlotte!) you'd think a Queen who wasn't especially maternal anyway would limit the number of births after an heir & spare.

Two heirs wasn't enough at the time when infant mortality was still high and adults could die of tuberculosis etc.  

But Victoria was very young, so there was no hurry. More time between pregnancies could have been good for her health. 

 

On ‎16‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 9:22 PM, tinderbox said:

I think she was so naïve that she had no idea HOW to limit the number of births.  Probably, nobody took the time to teach her about ovulation etc. 

Unfortunately, Albert did not want to help her. 

On ‎20‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 3:21 AM, Calvada said:

Poor Victoria, she just needed a friend.  Albert wants to fill that role, but he also wants to be her husband as that role was interpreted at that time, to "guide" her.  In other words, control her.  It's amazing to think at this time in their lives, they were each only 21 years old, 22 when they had their second child. 

 

On ‎20‎.‎1‎.‎2018 at 11:26 AM, andromeda331 said:

She really does need a friend. Someone other then her husband she could talk to about anything she wanted and not have to worry about talking to someone that might be considered political or a problem. Watching her talking to Lord M about marriage or being surprised to be pregnant again so soon. She could really use a friend. Someone with some actual real world knowledge she could use. 

I have heard that even nowadays royals can have no real friends as friendship demands equality.

I think that Albert understands this and his loneliness because of his position is one of reasons why he wants many children. 

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3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I have heard that even nowadays royals can have no real friends as friendship demands equality.

That probably makes sense but its also sad. Everyone needs a friend. 

Quote

I think that Albert understands this and his loneliness because of his position is one of reasons why he wants many children. 

 

I agree that's probably one of the reasons why he wants children. I understand why Victoria wanted to wait.   

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6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

 I understand why Victoria wanted to wait.   

Simply wanting isn't enough, if one doesn't do something.

Well, actually Victoria did but quite opposite: she wanted to go to the public life earlier than usually (before churching sex wasn't allowed), and if I remember right, she refused to breastfeed her baby (it often reduces fertility which is one of the reasons why upper class people who wanted heirs used nurse) and she began to have sex with Albert before discussing about birth control. Most methods used at that time would have demanded Albert's consent and as he was inexperienced when he married he probably couldn't have them.

But then there was the one sure method: Victoria could have shut her door. I have read a hilarious description about the priest and his wife who made themselves so busy that they were too tired to have sex - but when they thought that time was ripe to have the next baby, they really enjoyed it!

Victoria is a good example that it's not long since even the highest woman in the country was at the mercy of biology and couldn't control her reproductive health.

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On 4/4/2018 at 1:22 AM, Roseanna said:

But then there was the one sure method: Victoria could have shut her door. I have read a hilarious description about the priest and his wife who made themselves so busy that they were too tired to have sex - but when they thought that time was ripe to have the next baby, they really enjoyed it!

Victoria is a good example that it's not long since even the highest woman in the country was at the mercy of biology and couldn't control her reproductive health.

Yes. Granted women in Victoria’s time (even as a queen) did not have the LEGAL right to control when they had sex- (martial rape wasn’t even a crime in the USA until the 1980s!!!). Of course Albert loved Victoria and I know he wouldn’t have raped her; but on the flip side she loved him and unlike a lot of aristocratic women wasn’t stuck with some old guy she had no attraction to so she WANTED to have sex with him. 

 

 

So what are you supposed to do? Not have the kind of sex you want to have with your partner, along with the fact that you know it’s your duty to produce heirs? 

I am glad I live in the 21st century that’s for sure.   

Edited by Scarlett45
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On 1/15/2018 at 7:28 PM, Arwen Evenstar said:

She was absolutely besotted with him and wanted to marry him. Her affections may well have been misplaced due to needing a father figure.  Melbourne knew this was a part of it and that this arrangement could have been viewed as unseemly and unwise and knew it was in her best interests for him not to encourage it for the sake of preserving her honor and being a gentleman was very important to him. 

When she proposed to Lord M, I feel like Victoria was getting a lot of pressure to marry, was terrified of things changing, and, to an extent rebelling against her mother and Uncle Leopold. Victoria had a great friendship (platonic) love for Lord M, and I don’t think she had a clue about romantic love until she met Albert. On the other hand, I think Lord M was and still is deeply in romantic love with Victoria. I think he could have taken advantage of Victoria in both instances (the proposal and the trip to the greenhouse) but cares for Victoria too much to cause her any harm or scandal, and I think he knows Victoria is madly in love with Albert and didn’t want to get in the middle of some silly, juvenile fight between the two (especially knowing he would wind up the loser in the end). 

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I am glad Ada Lovelace was featured in this episode. I had no idea who she was. A really amazing woman. It was a shame that Victoria seemed so threatened by her, though. But maybe this was realistic behavior on Victoria’s part. I thought Victoria’s behavior in this episode was very unattractive. Her characterization of Ada Lovelace as “looking very pleased with herself,” when Ada seemed nothing but respectful and nice, and Victoria’s attempt to pit Albert and Lord M against each other with the trip to Brocket Hill, which appeared solely to get a rise out of Albert, made her look childish and unable to cope with not being the center of attention. The irony is that amist all the allegations of some audience members about Albert being disrespectful to women, he was the one (not Victoria) who gave Ada the respect due to her without regard to her gender. Maybe this episode was a means to explain why Albert does not talk to or associate with women, even on a platonic level, because Victoria would freak out. That said, I LOVE the Victoria character. Largely due to Jenna Coleman’s amazing job of showing Victoria’s flaws, but also making her a lovable, relatable character. Also, I believe Albert may have headed off Victoria’s spiral out of control if he just asked her why she didn’t want him to go to the dinner, instead of getting defensive and asking whether Victoria was commandiing him to stay at home. I guess both Victoria’s and Albert’s fears ramped up the situation. Victoria’s fears of being locked away, and Albert’s fears of being treated like Dash.

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Just rewatched Ordinary Woman (OW) from S1. It is really remarkable how the Green Eyed Monster (GEM) episode fits with OW, and not just the “remember kissing me here” statement. Lord M putting the thought in Victoria’s head that it is commonplace for married men to take a mistress in OW, and Lord M pointing out Albert’s animated reaction to Ada Lovelace that sets Victoria off to thinking Albert is having an affair in GEM. Albert wanting some independence from Victoria, “I don’t want to be treated like Dash” from OW, and Albert jumping to wrong conclusions that Victoria just wants to control him in regard to Victoria not wanting him to go to the Statistical Society dinner in GEM. Victoria wanting Lord M’s approval on her choice of Albert as a husband, “so you think I’m making the right decision?” from OW, and Victoria going to Lord M at Brocket Hall in GEM, with an attitude which seemed to me of ‘Lord M you were right about Albert taking a mistress when married’ and her struggling to “submit” to Albert in this regard. But now in GEM Lord M finally gives Victoria the approval she was seeking from Lord M on Albert being a good decision she made when choosing him as a husband as shown with the letter in GEM where Lord M tells Victoria he would wager the contents of his greenhouse on Albert’s devotion to her. To me, it seemed that in GEM Lord M finally gave up on any dream he had with being with Victoria and came to grappes with the fact that not only did Victoria love Albert, Albert loves Victoria and is a good husband for her.

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