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S04.E07: Week 4, Night 1

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A new arrival talks to every woman in Paradise before one accepts his date card; a hotter new arrival gets an easy date, even though her last date thought they were an item; double daters go speed boating and zip lining; an eager suitor takes a cautious bachelorette to a town fair.

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I'm finding this episode pretty fun. I can't really explain it.

I must say, Fred looks so gorgeous. I was so excited to see him.

More commentary from Daniel, please.

This episode was good until the Dean stuff.  Kristina is dumped and hurt and looking for comfort and for people to vent to and Raven is Regina George/Mean Girlsing all over the place.  LOL.

If Fred doesn't get a rose, oh no from me.  

Poor Ben Z.  Ben Z. and his dog and poor Blake and his obsession with Whaboom.  

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I don't understand Kristina.  Dean said he was interested in pursuing other relationships and encouraged Kristina to do the same.  This should tell her that she and Dean are not in an exclusive relationship.  Therefore, Danielle has every right to pursue him.  If Dean stated that he wanted an exclusive relationship with Kristina and then pursued Danielle, then he is obviously at fault.  Danielle would also be at fault for pursing a man who was in an exclusive relationship (that wasn't the case here though). 

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5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Raven is Regina George/Mean Girlsing all over the place.  LOL.

I have never warmed up to Raven and seeing her on BIP didn't change my mind. The only reason I can see why she would be a hot commodity is because she made it to F2 with Nick. I feel bad for Kristina about Dean but also want to shake her.

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Geez, what a bunch of useless people. Only Wells used his brain when he asked Cristina why she was chasing someone who wasn't chasing her. Touché. And Dominique turned out to be pretty fun on that date, a date that finally was fun all by itself. A date that wasn't sitting on a different beach or sitting in a different room. Otherwise, this episode pretty much sucked and I could care less about any of these dolts. I don't even know what I saw in Diggy because ... ugh. To him and to everyone. And my wish for Dean is that he spontaneously combusts and never darkens my tv set ever again.

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17 minutes ago, PhysNerd said:

I don't understand Kristina.  Dean said he was interested in pursuing other relationships and encouraged Kristina to do the same.  

I think she thought that was done once they slept together (or 'woke up together' whatever that involves). It's one thing to make out, go on a date, crash on the beach and see other people. I think it crosses a line to say "let's slow down" then have sex with with that person and then 12 hours later be making out with someone else in the pool. Slowing down means keeping it in your pants, imo.

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21 minutes ago, PhysNerd said:

I don't understand Kristina.  Dean said he was interested in pursuing other relationships and encouraged Kristina to do the same.  This should tell her that she and Dean are not in an exclusive relationship.  Therefore, Danielle has every right to pursue him.  If Dean stated that he wanted an exclusive relationship with Kristina and then pursued Danielle, then he is obviously at fault.  Danielle would also be at fault for pursing a man who was in an exclusive relationship (that wasn't the case here though). 

Kristina is hurt.  She's been dumped on TV, she is shocked, and she is reeling.  People are not always going to be 100% logical in those humiliating situations and assign all of the percentages of blame properly to the exact right parties.

I've seen these exact type of triangles before.  Two women are interested in a man, one woman is extremely shocked and hurt and feels disrespected that she's not the man's first choice and acts out (and I GET it).  The other woman knows how to act totally okay with it and is always stress-free around the guy. The guy is going to pick the least stressful situation.

Raven didn't need to shout "I'm just telling you the truth, and you just don't want to hear it" over and over again in Kristina's face.  Kristina was making the most sense when she said "I'd love to have this conversation sober."  Raven was just repeating herself and being stupid.  Those words weren't necessary.  What's the big deal about letting Kristina vent some?  But Kristina really didn't have anyone to turn to so she was in a bad situation.

I'm so sad about Fred.  Sigh.  I've always been super attracted to him.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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Blake acting like he's not still obsessed with Whaboom while being all obsessed about whaboom. Oy dude go away. 

I don't remember Fred being that attractive on Rachel's season but he looked good. 

Best thing about Daniel this season, is when he's around Lacey stops whining! 

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I think Kristina is too good for Dean.  He won't end up with Danielle either and there is no way he will ever be the Bachelor.  

I agree that Raven was not helpful to Kristina but just catty!

I guess Peter was too classy for this show - LOL!

I was looking forward to this show but it was such BS - even by the low standards you would expect of a show like this

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The after-credits clip used to be funny and the best part of this show. Now it's just people being gross and saying disgusting things, like Raven's stank on your hangdown, and now Daniel's not shutting up about "show me your penis and I'll show you mine." Of course, Daniel wins my vote for biggest dick ever on this show, so there's that, Canada Boy.

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Raven seemed like she was smashed, And who wouldn't be late at night when they've been drinking and cavorting all day? "I'd like to have this conversation sober." Was one of the smartest things to come from Kristina actually... she just wanted someone to rage to a bit and get a hug and Raven wasn't having it. Then her high-fiving Dean on the beach was classless. Big downgrade on Raven tonight (and also for 'toasting' to scallops.)

Personally I wouldn't have taken it so easy on Dean. I'd have taken my rose smashed it/ground it out under my foot and said some more pointed words that probably would have ended with "Knowing that you're incapable of a real relationship and will die alone is enough for me though. 'He's all yours now DLo, be careful what you bitch err I mean wish for.'"

Damn but if those new breasts aren't working out for Christen huh? I guess we have a lot of breastmen this season. Well, except Daniel of course who can respect a good penis when he sees it. Heh.

Edited by Wandering Snark
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Even though raven was bitchy in her attitude , what she was saying was right . I'm all about venting but it seems like Kristina really believes that Dean could do no wrong and danielle is at fault for everything . If danielle wasn't there , he'd be with Kristina by default , but how into her could he be if he'd choose someone else over within minutes of meeting the other girl . Kristina gave him too much power but she's only 25. It's a life experience 

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I really am fond of Christen as well. 

Fred. Yes he is definitely handsome but what really makes him attractive is that deep, beautiful voice! I was just really hoping he would be on long enough to tell us what he did as a child to make himself go down in history as a bad kid.

11 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Even though raven was bitchy in her attitude , what she was saying was right . I'm all about venting but it seems like Kristina really believes that Dean could do no wrong and danielle is at fault for everything . If danielle wasn't there , he'd be with Kristina by default , but how into her could he be if he'd choose someone else over within minutes of meeting the other girl . Kristina gave him too much power but she's only 25. It's a life experience 

I dunno, I think she held him at fault too. You just *really* don't want to see the other woman's POV at that moment. She just needed some empathy. 

Also, Danielle was supposedly her friend; I can see why Kristina felt D-Lo shouldn't have been pursuing Dean so boldly in front of her. 

Can we just all agree that Dean behaved like a wishy-washy weak toad? There were a lot of other ways he could have handled that situation that would not have been as hurtful to Kristina- starting with not sleeping with her after she gave him the rose.

I do believe that Dean feels horrible about it. But there is a certain type of weak man who thinks they ought to be judged by their intentions instead of their actions. 

I hope he is is able to get some good therapy and deal with some of his issues before he tries to be in a relationship again.

Edited by betha
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I feel for Kristina. Yes she is reeling but she asked for Raven's opinion. I can more see her getting upset with Raven if Raven just volunteered her opinion like Taylor did to Lacey. You can't ask for someone's opinion and then get mad if they are honestly telling you their opinion. What would be the sense of asking if you don't intend to even listen. Raven was trying to get her to see that Dean was the real culprit here and the one to blame. Once Kristina started raising her voice than Raven reacted to that. I think Kristina has been giving Dean way too many chances and was letting him slide because of her feelings for him. Which is also why she didn't want to hear the truth about him. Months from now she will look back and understand Raven was just trying to help her. Things are always much clearer in hindsight. 

And Raven wasn't the only one who felt that way. The women empathized with Kristina but they weren't trying to avoid DLo. And the men even though they were shown talking with Dean about the situation I think secretly they thought Dean was stupid and a asshole for the way he treated Kristina. Some even said so in ITM's. So it's not fair to say Raven was interfering or just being a bitch. Unlike Taylor with Lacey.

ETA: I do remember now that Kristina didn't ask for Raven's opinion per se but Kristina said she had asked Raven to come over and talk to her. So it was probably more so her wanting some sympathy and Raven didn't tell her what she wanted to hear. And Raven came off a little too harsh as she was probably drunk and couldn't show restraint as a result of it.

Edited by yorklee2
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Ugh. I feel for Kristina. I've been on the losing side of a love triangle and it sucked. It was really humiliating and I didn't have it play out on national television. That being said, she is too good for Dean. And guess what? If he's having this much trouble committing to you after dating for 2-3 weeks (and I think they were probably sleeping together during the hiatus, he met her family, etc. so REAL feelings were coming into play for her, at least) and he's THIS conflicted with one of the ten other girls on the show, what is he going to be like in the real world? With girls throwing themselves at him in bars, on social media, whatever. It's better that it ended now and at least Kristina could walk out with her head held high. Dang Dean. How the mighty have fallen...fom Fan Favorite on the Bachelorette to looking pretty awful in paradise.  

I see Raven's point about not blaming Danielle but it all comes down to how close Kristina and Danielle were outside of the show. If they were close, that sucks. If she was simply just another girl on Nick's season, she didn't really owe Kristina anything because that's the name of the game. Dean's the loser who was stringing Kristina along and sending mixed signals. Kristina should have been open to talking to other guys all along.  But Dean knew she'd always be there waiting as a plan B until he had to cut her loose to be with Danielle (who honestly doesn't seem that into him imo).

And what the hell was Danielle wearing for the rose ceremony? Tan gaucho/capri pants and a beaded crystal bikini over a tank top???? 

This season sucks. And it doesn't help it's constantly being ruined on entertainment sites. Who's dating, who broke up. I thought they were suppose to keep these things under wraps. But I feel like Amanda and Josh were the first to be very public with their relationship last season while the show was still airing so I guess that's status quo now. 

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Chris talking about the end of the season coming up may have been one of the longest post-production voice-overs ever.  

And although the "dates" on BiP have always sucked this season they're so bad I'm wondering if they lost some filming permits when they shut down temporarily.

"Substance"-wise . . . I guess "He's Just Not That Into You" never got published in Russia?

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14 minutes ago, woodscommaelle said:

I'm neither here nor there with Ben Z. but I think they should let him come back next year with his dog. 

I don't follow these people once the season ends so I've not kept up on any speculation or news about Peter accepting (or not) the Bachelor gig. But I do wonder and am speculating on the show casting Ben Z for the lead. I don't think Eric is seriously being considered and Peter is a lot of people's pick but what if he doesn't accept the spot? Makes me wonder if they were testing Ben for the spot by seeing how well he was received on BIP. He voluntarily left with no connections (could have been planned that way by producers?) so he would be a excellent choice. I know it's probably just wishful thinking but I for one would love to see him as the next Bachelor. And of course he could bring Zeus along!

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I do believe that Dean feels horrible about it. But there is a certain type of weak man who thinks they ought to be judged by their intentions instead of their actions. 

Preach it! Dean started showing signs of his immaturity on Rachel's season but covered it up really quickly. However, he's been completely exposed as the shallow, spineless man that he really is.  All he had to do was tell Kristina a week earlier that while he liked her, he was more attracted to Danielle. She would have still been hurt but would have been spared all of the mind games. Luckily for Kristina, she's beautiful and 25, there'll be no shortage of men out there ready and willing to date her.

Taylor and Derek really are the cutest. It reminds me just how magical falling in love is and while it's boring to watch from the outside, it's pretty apparent how lovely it is on the inside. I'm happy for those crazy kids!

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Last week we had to hear Kristina daring Dean to get a hard on and him saying "you aren't going to touch it at all?" And tonight we get Daniel trying to get Blake to exchange penis peeks. Way to stay classy show! I could never figure out why no one showed any interest in Ben and I don't believe he always talked about his dog.

I think Christian is not very attractive but she got three guys to chase her so good for her.

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The best Dean can muster up is "I hate myself."  That's it?!  Don't worry Dean, we hate you too.  Way to make it all about you and your need for chaos and constant affirmation.  Please Eff Off.

Kristina for Bachlorette!

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Did Ben Z get the good edit, because why else would all the girls not go after him unless he was a bore or an obnoxious guy? Or maybe he's just too good for the show and all the famewhoring. I would be on board with him being the next Bachelor.

Dean went from being the best guy eva' and everyone's favorite on the Bachelorette to being a complete dick. Poor Kristina, though I did agree with Raven by stop blaming DLo. She got her heart broken in front of millions of people, and it must be humiliating. I'm glad she left on her own terms.

Despite the annoying voice, I'm happy for Taylor and Derek.

Fred is smokin' hot. Can't believe someone didn't snap him up.

Edited by twoods
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3 hours ago, clubsauce said:

When Raven said "Cheers, Scallops" it sounded so scripted and forced that it momentarily took me out of the show. Then Wells piled on with his phony "oh, didn't you know?" douchiness. Did they think we forgot everyone whooping it up last week behind her back? Turds.

 

Also, Raven has kind of an old-lady-without-her-dentures face  

Oh my gosh!  Yes!  I didn't watch Nicks season, but the first time I saw her onscreen here thought that she looked like one of those  "granny apple" dolls! I'm sorry to be so mean but her profile is just unfortunate. 

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2 hours ago, twoods said:

Did Ben Z get the good edit, because why else would all the girls not go after him unless he was a bore or an obnoxious guy? Or maybe he's just too good for the show and all the famewhoring. I would be on board with him being the next Bachelor.

Dean went from being the best guy eva' and everyone's favorite on the Bachelorette to being a complete dick. Poor Kristina, though I did agree with Raven by stop blaming DLo. She got her heart broken in front of millions of people, and it must be humiliating. I'm glad she left on her own terms.

Despite the annoying voice, I'm happy for Taylor and Derek.

Fred is smokin' hot. Can't believe someone didn't snap him up.

What happened to Dean?  We are seeing a completely different person now, versus what we were shown on Rachel's season...

Edited by bequialife
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2 hours ago, twoods said:

Did Ben Z get the good edit, because why else would all the girls not go after him unless he was a bore or an obnoxious guy? Or maybe he's just too good for the show and all the famewhoring. I would be on board with him being the next Bachelor.

Dean went from being the best guy eva' and everyone's favorite on the Bachelorette to being a complete dick. Poor Kristina, though I did agree with Raven by stop blaming DLo. She got her heart broken in front of millions of people, and it must be humiliating. I'm glad she left on her own terms.

Despite the annoying voice, I'm happy for Taylor and Derek.

Fred is smokin' hot. Can't believe someone didn't snap him up.

Ben does seem to be too good for this show. He had a real good edit and behaved himself well on Kaitlyn's season too. I know it's selfishness on my part to want to see him as the Bachelor as he would probably be tainted afterwards (all the leads come away scathed) but I would love to see him get a good edit and let the woman do the drama. Wishful thinking I know.

I have to say I don't care much for DLo but she didn't force Dean to go out with her. If he had cared for Kristina that much he would never have accepted that date. Kristina was right though when she said, "karmas a bitch" as I don't think it will last between DLo and Dean. He'll get tired of airhead soon enough or she will dump his ass when the new is over and she realizes he isn't that great a catch after all. Looks like the twins are coming on to rock the boat so it may happen sooner than later.

Edited by yorklee2
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3 hours ago, HappyDancex2 said:

Kristina for Bachlorette!

Oh gosh, no. I'm so sick of seeing her cry and mumble and that was only for like 4 weeks. She needs a lot more confidence and assertiveness in herself before a bunch of guys court her. And I bet they'd have a "twist" and bring Dean back and throw him in the mix. Also she's really beautiful (although she looks soooo young in a lot of her TH, like barely legal young), but she also looks like she has cotton balls stuffed in her cheeks after dental surgery. 

Raven is just so greasy and gross-looking. That freaking hair needs to gooooo. Chop it off girl. Get better extensions. And her accent makes me feel like my brain is turning into molasses when I listen to it. 

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5 hours ago, HappyDancex2 said:

 

Kristina for Bachlorette!

When she's older and if she's still single, then sure.  As of right now, she is way too immature for her age. She's a sweet girl, but she's incredibly stupid when it comes to men.  I can't believe that at 25, she is still letting a man jerk her around and treat her like she's a backup option.  Time for her to grow up a bit. She needs to take a good look in the mirror.  Dean was undoubtedly an a**, but she allowed him to treat her disrespectfully.  At her age, she should know that if a man is so wishy-washy between her and and another woman, then he's clearly not interested enough in either woman beyond sex.  

Kristina and Danielle were never actually friends according to Danielle: http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/danielle-lombard-on-dean-unglert-and-kristina-schulman-bachelor-in-paradise-triangle-you-cant-help-who-you-love-22626.php

I don't like Danielle at all, but I think she was telling the truth in this article.

Here are the basic rules of dating that I have followed since 18 in order to stay out of love triangle bulls*t:

1) If a man is merely dating one of my friends, then he is off limits even if my friend gives me the "green light." 
2) If I am aware that a man I'm interested in is even just dating a random woman, then he is off limits until they break up. 
3) If I date a man who I genuinely believe to be single and I find out he is in a relationship with someone else, then I immediately dump him.  

Kristina is making dating a lot more complicated than it needs to be. She doesn't need to wait for Dean to make up his wishy-washy mind.  She could've walked away immediately when she felt disrespected. 


 

Edited by PhysNerd
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Kristina lost me in this one. She was clearly very emotional and not thinking clearly. Dean is a fuckboy but in this one he very clearly spelled it out for Kristina what he has been saying all along but Kristina was acting surprised like this is news to her. She seems to be under the impression that after she lets Dean "find himself", he will come back to her. Then she was offended he was finding himself in the pool with DLo. What did you think he meant by him exploring options, girl? It is like she can't comprehend the situation. Hard pass on Kristina being the Bachelorette. And I was with Raven, why was she blaming DLo?

As for Dean, he is a messed up boy (unfortunate because he isn't that young at 25). He is not even boyfriend material, let alone husband material.

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Kristina has severe abandonment issues (bc of her background) which probably contributed to most, if not all, of her actions. 

 

I don't know why but it annoys me when people use the "you disrespected me" argument. I thought Raven had good advice, however I wish someone had told her this a week ago. We've all been there, and in hindsight Kristina will wonder why she bothered.

Edited by sistersledge · Reason: My old post disrespected me
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6 hours ago, bequialife said:

What happened to Dean?  We are seeing a completely different person now, versus what we were shown on Rachel's season...

Edited 6 hours ago by bequialife.

IMO, he is exactly the same now as he was on Rachel's season, Mr. "What's your favorite dinosaur?"  I couldn't stand him then and I can't stand him now.

Edited by TomGirl
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I like Fred and I think he's quite attractive, but his personality is too low-key for a reality show.

I hope we've heard the last of the scallops and I certainly do not want to see Christen eating them anymore.  She's got a piggish quality about her and I can see her eating chicken wings in bed and then rolling over wanting to have sex with her greasy fingers.

Raven's not gonna age well.

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7 hours ago, Rabithed said:

Oh my gosh!  Yes!  I didn't watch Nicks season, but the first time I saw her onscreen here thought that she looked like one of those  "granny apple" dolls! I'm sorry to be so mean but her profile is just unfortunate. 

THANK you Rabithed! The granny apple doll is exactly what I was thinking but I couldn't put it together! 

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9 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

But I do wonder and am speculating on the show casting Ben Z for the lead.

Nah. 'Guy who's obsessed with his dog and goes overlooked by the women' isn't a favorable pre-Bachelor edit.

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23 minutes ago, sistersledge said:

I don't know why but it annoys me when people use the "you disrespected me" argument

I agree, I think it's way overused. I never liked Dean very much and every time Kristina asked him a question and he answered by rubbing his head and saying, "I mean...." I wanted to smack him but he really was fairly honest with Kristina.  At least as honest as a fearful little boy can be.   Kristina's answer to this childishness was to act like a wife of twenty years, desperately trying to keep a marriage together through nagging.  He wouldn't have been able to "disrespect," her so much if she had been treating herself with respect.  she should have looked at the way Derek was with Taylor and realized the last thing she needed was a guy who couldn't even be faithful during the first weeks of infatuation.

 

5 hours ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

Also she's [Kristina's] really beautiful (although she looks soooo young in a lot of her TH, like barely legal young), but she also looks like she has cotton balls stuffed in her cheeks after dental surgery.

 Yes. Beautiful eyes, but the mouth area always makes me think she's tucked a pinch or two of dip between her cheek and gum..

As for Raven, with all due respect to all the  Little Women who can be quite beautiful, her face has always looked like the face of  a little person, which doesn't fit very well with her long body.  Mean of me yes, but she is too smug for me to care.  Look at pictures of just her face and you'll see it.

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I think for most of the episode Kristina was putting the blame squarely where it belonged - on Dean.  I don't recall her mentioning DLo very much, she even said she was leaving Dean alone and he was the one who was seeking her out, therefore giving mixed messages.  The only time she said she also blamed DLo was when she was talking to Raven, and to me it seemed like she just wanted to vent to a friend.  Raven didn't act like a friend in that moment, not that she was wrong but I think Kristina just wanted to vent so it was not the time to chastise or judge.  And then she went and talked about it behind Kristina's back, which is just a bitch move.  Also calling Jack a loser because he didn't want to kiss her greasy ass, making fun of Blake (ok that was deserved)....  Raven is getting a little high and mighty for someone who is wilting in the Mexican humidity.  Get that girl some blotting papers STAT!!

When Dean was talking to DLo and saying that yes, indeed he did want to get to know her and wanted her rose, it was the most wishy-washy, lackluster, BORING conversation ever.  Is this the excitement he was talking about??  Egads.

Why would Christen say Jack Stone was a bad kisser???  Maybe she's the bad kisser.  Jack Stone is actually a catch - he's moderately attractive, has an actual job, & hasn't made a total ass of himself.

I'm glad Benzie left and would love to see him on the Bachelor.  Fred was too good for this show and Blake, well I felt a tiny bit bad for him with no one wanting to go on a date with him, but he's just way too awkward and still obsessed with Waboom.

I still like Wells, I like his comments and I don't find them mean spirited.  He seems the most level headed on this show, maybe because he's the only sober one.  I do love me some Daniel too, though.

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2 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

When Dean was talking to DLo and saying that yes, indeed he did want to get to know her and wanted her rose, it was the most wishy-washy, lackluster, BORING conversation ever.  Is this the excitement he was talking about??  Egads.

I could see Dean's excitement over DLo ebb away as soon as Kristina left. Actually, it is even before then...as soon as he "committed" to DLo, she suddenly seemed much less desirable for him. He just wanted the cheap thrill of having two women in his pocket. He even said so in the past episode, that he found DLo intriguing but as soon as Kristina leaves him, he will regret it. I don't think he is really that into either one. He has some personal issues, Kristina too and they would be a hot mess together.

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I could see the steamy hot connection between Dean and D-Lo when they had their passionate, heartfelt conversation while both looking anywhere BUT at each other. LMFAO. Seriously, they didn't look at the other person once during that entire conversation that they rattled off as if they'd rehearsed it about ten minutes before the scene was filmed.

Dean really should have been honest with Kristina. "look, you're hot and all, but you're kind of high maintenance as far as relationships go. D-Lo is willing to fuck me without all this emotional crap getting in the way, so I'm a gonna go bang her now. If you want to stick around, great, but I'm really not into all the talking about feelings and crap. Just touch my dick and make out with me instead of all the yapping."

If Raven really was Kristina's friend she would have known that minutes after the break up was not the time to try to talk sense to Kristina. Just give her an ear to vent to and talk about who is at fault later on. There was no need for it then. I really do not get the appeal of Raven at all.

I would fully support Ben Z as Bachelor but only if Zeus comes along as his wing man, and only if, at the end, he dumps both girls and gives the ring to Zeus, it can be one of those kong rings, Zeus will love it, and says "It's you and me forever bestie!" and then they run off together playing fetch with the ring.

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2 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

Wells looks and acts like the long-lost son of Chris Harrison.  But I do like him.

He speaks exactly like him. When Chris Harrison retires, he can take over. LOL.

I would like Ben Z to be the next Bachelor. He appeared boring on this show but I think it's because he's too normal and low key for it. Not sure how he would do as the Bachelor but he is pretty to look at and seems nice enough.

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