S07.E07: The Dragon And The Wolf

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

Exactly-we didn't even get to see their first kiss, and that scene was not what I would call passionate. Makes me wonder whether they're just very bad at this, or this story isn't going where I think it is.

I think we would have seen a proper start to finish love scene if it was meant to be the start of an endgame romance. 

[screamin]

While I'm glad LF is finally gone, I was a bit annoyed that his whole trial's evidence against him consisted of 'Bran says so." If that was all that was needed to convince the Northern and the Vale lords of LF's guilt, they could have done this the day Bran rolled into Winterfell. That annoyed me, as well as the when and the how of Arya turning against Sansa and Sansa (offscreen) winning her over. Was it all fake? And if it was, why was it necessary?

And yeah, one dragon was sacrificed, thus proving the means for the NK to cross the Wall, all to convince ONE one-handed dude to fight with them. Nice going, Jon Snow (and no, I don't give a shit if you're Targaryen or not, the whole fuss about whether the man who left his first wife and kids in the hands of a murderously insane pyromaniac to get with a teenager actually MARRIED her or not is just enraging).

Edited August 28, 2017 by screamin
Bran doesn't walk

[SimoneS]

Just now, CofCinci said:

I'm very confused by Tyrion's bitchface. Wasn't he shipping them?!!!

Maybe he was conflicted? I don't think the show gives the characters much motivation for some of the things that they do. 

[GrailKing]

10 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Aidan Gillen’s horrible acting will haunt the series no longer!  Yay!  In fairness, the writing for Littlefinger has been terrible for a very long time (the writers frequently took “chaos is a ladder” to mean he would do whatever the plot required of him at any given moment, and as a supposed genius, he suffered the most as the show’s plotting became more and more simplistic), but his performance never did anything to mitigate the flaws, and tended instead to accentuate them.

True to form, the plot that sent him off was really dumb.  How and when did Sansa figure all this out?  What prompted this sudden revisiting of things like Littlefinger’s dealings with Ned Stark?  There’s not even a hint of an explanation.  It would tend to indicate that (assuming GRRM ever publishes the next book(s)) we’ll eventually get a more narratively satisfying story of Sansa outwitting Littlefinger, though.

Down south, I think Tyrion has to be designated this season’s Least Valuable Player.  After bungling Dany’s initial invasion, he then conceived of a grand stratagem to win Cersei’s alliance that ended up costing them one of Dany’s three dragons (and yes, he told her not to go, but the whole stupid mission was his idea in the first place; had his advice been followed, he would instead have cost Dany her main allies in Westeros) and did not even succeed in convincing Cersei to join them.  Really, Dany would have been much better off if Tyrion had fallen overboard on the way to Westeros, rather than having him around trying to convince her to try to conquer Westeros without ever spilling blood.  Oh, right,, and that led to the White Walkers getting through the Wall too.

On the plus side, Jaime finally came around.

Grey Worm improbably survived a season where he was on a dangerous military mission that unexpectedly went south even after having had sex with his girlfriend for the first time before he left.  Good for him!
 

I guess we have to assume she played him and talked to Bran and talked to Arya and most likely Royce, as there were no Northern Lords there .

I'll be back, want to see inside the episode, see what they say, they should had Sansa meet Royce or Bran, I think Sansa's and Arya's spot was enough to let me know that they trusted the other. I was hoping when LF pleaded for defense , that Sansa would send him running a let Ghost in the game; didn't happen. : [

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

12 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Also found the Jon/Daenerys sex scene (and the Rhaegar/Lyanna reveal) very underwhelming. All that build up, for an awkward 10 seconds with creepy Tyrion standing outside. Why did I ever let myself believe this show might be interested in depicting a serious romance?

Nothing screams serious romance than one that is between an Aunt and her Nephew.

[Oscirus]

Dinkelage and Lena put on an acting clinic. You know what show? If you need a contrived reason to get them in the same room, do it.  That acting was so good, I almost forgot I was watching Game of Thrones.

Glad to see Lyanna and Rhaegar happily getting married in the middle of a catastrophic war they started. Great.

Littlefinger's death felt anticlimatic. 

Euron's about to become a threatening villain at any time now.

I love that both of Cersei's brothers dared her to kill them.

I really don't care about jon and Dany.

This is probably the worst of the finales.

[AGuyToo]

Why did Bran reveal Jon's parentage to Sam, whom he barely knows, but not to Arya or Sansa?

[SeanC]

9 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Someone reassure me that Tormund isn't dead.  Right now.

Oh, I'm sure he's alive.

He absolutely shouldn't be, given what happened, but if he or Beric were dying, they'd get incinerated or crushed onscreen.

[Brn2bwild]

Just now, Francie said:

I think it was a message to the audience -- don't get too attached. Don't start rooting for them.

I don't know... this is the show that followed a scene where Shireen was burned alive with Dany flying on Drogon for the first time.  They don't always have the best sense of timing.

[Meredith Quill]

Baby Targ incoming> S8.

[Conan Troutman]

4 minutes ago, Francie said:

So, it looks like the dragon has its second head. 

What the heck does the dragon have three heads mean, then? 

Well, that's the books - the show never mentioned it, possibly because (f)Aegon was the third. I'm also not sure it stands for dragon rider in the books - three heads could just refer to three figurative heads, the heads of the House Targaryen. Or maybe Aegon and Jon do ride the dragons there and Aegon goes down with Viserion in a similar (hopefully much less stupid) way like Viserion in the show. 

4 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Someone reassure me that Tormund isn't dead.  Right now.

They never bothered to attack them, it seems. Maybe never noticed. So I assume they just let them walk and way and then... I dunno, maybe the old spies behind the line routine? It would be a nice subplot to start off next season. 

[nodorothyparker]

Good gods, the big Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna  reveal had to be the most anti-climactic thing ever.  All of it between Bran and Sam was handled like two kids geeking out over a really uninteresting Dungeons and Dragons thing.  The interspersed aunt-nephew sex makes me think even the show realizes these two actors have the least amount of chemistry with each other and just wanted to check it off.

Cersei finally threatening Jaime may have been the final straw the broke the camel's back after a season of increasingly big straws falling all around him.  At this point, I'm just so happy he's finally on the move though I don't even care about his reasoning.  

[stagmania]

2 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Revealing Jon's parentage in the same episode he has sex with his aunt is disgusting. There is no amount of "hotness" makes incest root worthy or sexy or anything good.

It is sad that this is an unpopular opinion. I guess the producers know their audience. 

Please spare us the moralizing about a show that has featured all manner of physical and sexual violence and depravity from the very beginning.

[dbell1]

About time GoogleBran came back to life. I cheered when Littlefinger got knifed by Arya. And he went out just like Cat Stark did, so karma!!  Only thing that would have made it better was Ghost hanging out in the corner waiting for dinner.

Too bad Cersie wasn't off'd by dead thing. Seemed extra cranky after being in the box forever. It was like a bad infomercial: "Meet your new enemy, only fire and dragonglass and Valarian steel can kill it".

Jaimie walking out on Cersie was very satisfying.

If Bran can go anywhere, why the hell didn't he know about the secret marriage? And what the hell? He's nice to Sam, but dead wood to everyone else?

Finally, holy blue fireballs!! I really need Viscerion to remember everything and not roast Dany or his siblings.

Another, finally- Arya and Sansa had a heart to heart and listened to Eddard's advice.  I was very happy. Those girls deserve a moment of peace.

[Hana Chan]

Oh wow... am not getting to sleep anytime soon.

It might have been more politically expedient for Jon to lie to Cersi, but I don't think it would have changed things. Cersi wasn't going to pledge to support the war against the dead and she was going to play them no matter what. I get where Jon was coming from and again, to me, this "bending the knee" bit is more about forming an alliance and not Jon being subservient.

Cheers to Jamie for standing his ground and finally seeing Cersi for who she is. Sansa's not the only one to take a long time to learn things.

Not going to mourn Littlefinger. His death was very, very overdue. Was highly entertaining to see him begging for his life and then bleeding out on the floor.

Way to telegraph that Dany's going to get knocked up before long. I agree that depending on the word of someone that murdered your husband and unborn child is probably not the brightest thing. But could we at least get Dany's inevitable pregnancy to be something of a surprise.

Glad that we now have firm confirmation on 1) that Jon is legitimate and 2) his real name. I liked the flashback to Reaghar's and Lyanna's wedding (and am ok with his appearance). Jon's going to come home to some very interesting news.

Kit has an absolutely adorable ass, but could the sex scene between Jon and Dany been a bit more than the ten seconds we got. It's kind of a momentous event.

Tormund has better made t out alve. That's all I'm saying. Otherwise I'm boing to be very, very upset.

Poor Viserion. But that last scene at the Wall? Terrifying. Shit just got very, very real now.

What? No episode next week? Noooo!!!!

[WatchrTina]

7 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Go Theon. Can't believe I'm saying that but, yeah, go Theon.

Jon forgave him (as much as he could) so I'm forgiving him too and I wanna see some EPIC battles against that sick MoFo Euron next season. 

I guess we should assume Euron had already taken Yara from the dungeon and stashed her on one of his ships as part of his deal with Cersie?

Edited August 28, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Wayward Son]

Jamie finally leaving Cersei is too little too late for this viewer. 

 

Little Finger's death at the hands of Arya and Sansa was satisfying! I love that it took place with contributions from the three remaining children of Ned and Catelyn Stark! It was also good to see Bran becoming more invested in events again. 

 

Why was Tyron creeping outside the bedroom during the Jon and Dany sex? My personal speculation is that Dany will become pregnant, as a result of sex with Jon. The recent emphasis on her belief she is barren seems to be building up to a "haha you're wrong moment"

 

Viserion bringing down the wall was a holy shit moment! 

 

Is it 2018 yet? I need the final season in my life.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Skeeter22]

The pacing of this episode, and season, was weird. They just kept rushing from moment to moment without letting anything breathe or fully play out. The whole season has been less than the sum of its parts. I expect next season to be the same. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

1 minute ago, Francie said:

I think it was a message to the audience -- don't get too attached. Don't start rooting for them.

Usually incest won't need such warning, but I guess they felt it was warranted in this case. 

[dirtypop90]

9 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Revealing Jon's parentage in the same episode he has sex with his aunt is disgusting. There is no amount of "hotness" makes incest root worthy or sexy or anything good.

It is sad that this is an unpopular opinion. I guess the producers know their audience. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, stagmania said:

 

Exactly-we didn't even get to see their first kiss, and that scene was not what I would call passionate. Makes me wonder whether they're just very bad at this, or this story isn't going where I think it is.

 

I truly don't think this is going the way people think after this episode.  I think we might be leading up to Jon betraying Dany next season. I started feeling this way after he was so "honorable" during the meeting with Cersei and some of the things he said and others said about him.  "I keep my word" "Ned stark's son keeps his word" W/e Jon said about promises and lies. Dany saying she respected him. Maybe he has to choose between being a Stark and a Targaryan next season? I don't know but something is amiss.

I didn't even realize we didn't get a first kiss. Something just so off about it.

Edited August 28, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Oscirus]

If you kick someone down there even though they don't have nuts, doesn't it still hurt?

[magdalene]

I think we are supposed to see the Jon/Dany coupling as a cautionary tale ala Rhaegar/Lyanna - look how well that turned out.

[jeansheridan]

6 minutes ago, Francie said:

What the heck does the dragon have three heads mean, then? 

It is from the three original conquerors. One guy, two sisters. 

I was delighted that Brienne and Sandor discussed Arya like the kickass adoptive parents they are. Could she ask for a better pair?

And Sandor letting the zombie almost reach Cersei was awesome.

The incest doesn't bother me. They weren't raised together and genetic issues on this type of show don't matter. They are so pretty. And the show gave them 7 eps to build up to it. Seven hours is a lot.

Brienne has three, maybe four options now if she is in the mood. Hee.

Of course Tormund is alive. 

As is Bran! Either a better director helped him adjust or the Spock Bran was a put on for Littlefinger. 

I was really hoping for a Stark family reunion. I thought we'd see Dany and Jon ride up when the sisters were on the wall.

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

Why was Tyron creeping outside the bedroom during the Jon and Dany sex?

Wanted some 3 way action?

[screamin]

16 minutes ago, Francie said:

Rhaegar Targaryen. The George Forman of Westeros. 

Rhaegar was long dead when Jon was born. I think naming him Aegon was Lyanna's idea. I like to think maybe she felt kind of sorry about the way Elia's Aegon died as a result of Rhaegar and her irresponsibility and named him so in penance.

[Xantar]

6 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

 

I don't care if it was sloppy writing, Sansa finally killing LF was everything. Loved that she said "I'm a slow learner" to drive home the point. One thing bothered me: Arya is a leftie. It's a big deal in both the books and the shows that she fights with her left hand. But I could have sworn she killed LF with her right hand. 

Arya carries her dagger on the left hip so that she draws it with her right hand (which is her off hand). She killed Littlefinger with the dagger. 

As for the rest: 

Oh shit. Oh. Shit. Ohhhhh shit. 

OH! SHIT!

[Sakura12]

Man am I happy that Littlefinger got played. That was the fitting way for him to die more then being killed by his own knife. 

Bran: Jon needs to know 

Too late, Bran. Jon just banged his aunt.  Since most of us already knew that Jon was a Targaryen, the dramatic music wasn't necessary. What was with Tyrion creeping on Dany and Jon? 

I guess Cersei doesn't care if she's the Queen of corpses, then dies. I think she wins the dumbest Lannister award. Does she not understand that if Dany and Jon's armies fall they will just join the ranks of the undead? Jamie finally caught a clue and I guess be the only force from the south.  The Gold company will probably see the walking dead and turn and run. Gold isn't worth your life.  And now there's an Ice Dragon. 

[stagmania]

4 minutes ago, AGuyToo said:

Why did Bran reveal Jon's parentage to Sam, whom he barely knows, but not to Arya or Sansa?

Nothing Bran has done this season has made any sense to me. 

[jeansheridan]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

If you kick someone down there even though they don't have nuts, doesn't it still hurt?

It does but not as much I would imagine. Not a shooting pain.

[Wulfsige]

Burning question...are Pod and Bronn still drinking? I really wish I could have gone with them rather than watch sex with Auntie.

[Ambrosefolly]

1 minute ago, screamin said:

Rhaegar was long dead when Jon was born. I think naming him Aegon was Lyanna's idea. I like to think maybe she felt kind of sorry about the way Elia's Aegon died as a result of Rhaegar and her irresponsibility and named him so in penance.

 

 

 Rhaegar and Lyanna still suck. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[Oscirus]

Just now, screamin said:

Rhaegar was long dead when Jon was born. I think naming him Aegon was Lyanna's idea. I like to think maybe she felt kind of sorry about the way Elia's Aegon died as a result of Rhaegar and her irresponsibility and named him so in penance.

So she felt worst about what she did to those guys then what she did to her own family? She's really not coming off well here the more that gets revealed.

[Moya the Leviathan]

2 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

I'm very confused by Tyrion's bitchface. Wasn't he shipping them?!!!

Tyrion has had a drought of *ahem* epic proportions.  Plus in the company of Podrick and Grey Worm, the wonder dick twins, he's exactly as friend-zoned as sir Jorah.  On the plus side, Jamie will be joining his brother. 

[FemmyV]

I think I'll go backwards:

Wow. Geez. NK dragonrider was pretty fucking far out. I can't imagine how Thormund could have survived that, but here's hoping.

Boatsex: is that all there is? Grey Worm and Missandei had a bigger love scene than that. As for Tyrion, now his watch begins, again.

Winterfell Bran and Sam: wow, nothing was rushed about that reunion, huh? Was it just me, or did Bran seem a little pissed that Jon was a Sand? Rheagar looked a lot like Vyserius. Did Harry play him?

Winterfell Arya, Sansa, et al: thank goodness that's all over but I admit to being surprised. I thought LF would stick around until near-endgame, and Sansa would off him to inherit the Eerie and Vale.

KL Cersei and Jamie: it's interesting how, in these last two episodes, Cersei has been revealing to Jamie that she mostly sees him as her subordinate soldier and piece of meat ... was it really so much easier to do it this way than to have her fucking the Moonboy? What happened to her supposed miscarriage? And why didn't Jamie bring Bronn when he split town? I get the feeling we lost a couple things in the editing room.

Theon: you know, I have a hard time believing that we have this character who's made it all the way to here, had his schvantz cut off, lost a finger or two, gets the shit beat out of himself, turns tail from cowardice, etc., etc ... is still alive in the game just so he can go rescue his sister and beat Euron on Season 8 and return for a pat on the back. I think the Drowned God or some god has bigger plans for Theon.

Dragon pit was fun. Loved seeing Cersei get all uptight over Dany. And Qyburn, man, you know he wanted to keep that wight as a pet. Man's a freak.

[Oscirus]

Just now, Ambrosefolly said:

Did Aegon die before Rhaegar died or after. Rhaegar and Lyanna still suck. 

After Rhaegar, before Lyanna, though I doubt she'd even know about that given the condition she was in.

[WatchrTina]

That scene between Sansa and Arya and Littlefinger was satisfying.

DO YOU DENY IT?

[screamin]

1 minute ago, Oscirus said:

So she felt worst about what she did to those guys then what she did to her own family? She's really not coming off well here the more that gets revealed.

Well, Aegon was a baby. Maybe 'the most innocent victim' kind of thing, I don't know.

[Advance35]

Littlefinger was trending world wide.  It's interesting what the fandom chooses to focus on at times.

I agree with those who thought the Dany/Jon sex was underwhelming, I definitely expected more.  I wonder why they cut it the way they did.  The chemistry was never impressive to me but serviceable, about on par with what he had with Ygritte.  Oh well.

Jon continues to prove he should NOT be King in The North.  He couldn't out-intrigue a swatted fly much less a true "player."  I liked that Sansa was lamenting the political ramifications of him giving the North away to Dany.   I also find it very interesting that she couldn't recognize the significance of Dany being beautiful.  I remember in Season 5 when LF told her to make Ramsay her own creature, Sansa said "I don't know how to do that."  Her lack of sexual knowledge is a weapon she lacks due to inexperience.  Though this is a noticeable change from the book because in  Winds of Winter we are seeing her evolution in how she deals with men.

I'm going to miss Littlefinger, he was one of the characters that kept this story from devolving into the Lord of the Rings.   

LH is a wonderful actress.  She can radiate so much and it must be pointed out that her outfits were gorgeous this episode.  Especially the mink shawl she wore in her final scene

[nilyank]

6 minutes ago, Francie said:

I think it was a message to the audience -- don't get too attached. Don't start rooting for them.

I wasn't. The show's other example of incest sex is Cersei and Jaime. They were doomed to failure because it was totally icky. If Jon found out before the sex, it would have never had happened. Now when he finds out, he will be all sad and icky.

[Oscirus]

1 minute ago, FemmyV said:

And Qyburn, man, you know he wanted to keep that wight as a pet. Man's a freak.

He definitely wanted to reverse engineer that arm.

[Francie]

Peter and Lena's scene was one of the top 5 of an admittedly weak season.  Tyrion's and Cersei's relationship is one of the dynamic ones that was missing this season.  Too many weak pairings of characters this season. 

I raged a bit at Tyrion's omission of extending his condolences to Jaime for Tommen's death, so I was glad to see it, and Myrcella's acknowledged between Cersei and Tyrion, at least. 

Calling Jaime stupid is the hallmark of an abusive couple.  I see the writers left no stone unturned in that department.  

It was weird to see Jaime in non-Lannister garb at the end.  

But what about his bff Bronn?  I imagine him taking one look at Cersei, Qyborn, and the Mountain and being all, "You know, I didn't need a castle all that badly, after all." 

[VCRTracking]

I posted this in the last episode thread:

Quote

I have always been an Arya fan but she was acting like a PSYCHO this episode. As I said in an earlier episode thread, Sansa probably deserved to be called out but the way she did it was disturbing. People going on about Sansa being rude to Brienne. Arya was calmly and coldly telling her own sister she was going to cut off and wear her face! Deliberately frightening her and enjoying it!  This isn't her avenging her family against the Freys. I'm not going to root for her this time. Telling that heartwarming story about Ned for the punchline that it was Sansa's fault he died? WTF? She knew even Jon would be more understanding about the letter. Arya doesn't care that turning the lords against Sansa would hurt Jon too. Arya despises Sansa not for her snobby attitude.  She despises her for being "weak" and I think that's why some fans hate her too.

I have never been so glad to be wrong!

To be fair in my post in the last episode thread (which got 39 likes) I said Arya was acting like a psycho! So I was kind of right.'-)

I should have had faith (if not in the writers) in the characters of Arya, Sansa and Bran.

Edited August 28, 2017 by VCRTracking

[dirtypop90]

1 minute ago, WatchrTina said:

That scene between Sansa and Arya and Littlefinger was satisfying.

DO YOU DENY IT?

MY SISTER ASKED YOU A QUESTION!

[AGuyToo]

This episode seems to confirm that the plan to capture a wight was the stupidest plan ever. Not only are they not getting any help from Cersei, but they lost the Wall because they lost the dragon. I hope GRRM comes up with something better.

[scarynikki12]

1 minute ago, FemmyV said:

Grey Worm and Missandei had a bigger love scene than that. As for Tyrion, now his watch begins, again.

This contrast is another reason I don't think Jon and Dany are endgame.  They could have just copied that love scene if it was meant to be romantic and the start of a power couple.  They chose to intertwine reminders of their blood relation instead.

That love scene is also why I expected Grey Worm to die in battle this season so his survival is a pleasant surprise.

[Oscirus]

Just now, AGuyToo said:

This episode seems to confirm that the plan to capture a wight was the stupidest plan ever. Not only are they not getting any help from Cersei, but they lost the Wall because they lost the dragon. I hope GRRM comes up with something better.

Come on now, they picked up Jamie and um...

[GenieinTX]

6 minutes ago, screamin said:

While I'm glad LF is finally gone, I was a bit annoyed that his whole trial's evidence against him consisted of 'Bran says so." If that was all that was needed to convince the Northern and the Vale lords of LF's guilt, they could have done this the day Bran walked into Winterfell. That annoyed me, as well as the when and the how of Arya turning against Sansa and Sansa (offscreen) winning her over. Was it all fake? And if it was, why was it necessary?

 

When Sam was talking to Bran about the secret wedding, he asked Bran - Can you see it?  Bran didn't look for the wedding until then and saw it.  So I don't think Bran was looking for Littlefinger betrayal until Sansa or Arya asked him to.

[herbz]

I have no idea why the writers worship Cersei (and Tyrion, sort of. I can't make much sense of him this season either) and loathe Jaime so. How can you read AFFC and then write him like that for 4 seasons? Whatever, he's finally headed away now. 

It seems rather OOC for Cersei not to have arrested Tyrion at the very least. 

This wight plan has doomed them all. So stupid! 

Edited August 28, 2017 by herbz

[WatchrTina]

I'm calling it now.  The next person who dares Cersie to kill them WILL be killed.

In related news, the Mountain SUCKS as a bodyguard.  He should have interposed himself between that thing and his queen as soon as it started for her.

[Francie]

5 minutes ago, FemmyV said:

 And Qyburn, man, you know he wanted to keep that wight as a pet. Man's a freak

You know the man has taken the arm sample and has already manufactured 3 of those things in his dungeon laboratory. 

"Your own Army of the Dead will be ready to march in a fortnight, my queen."