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S12.E08: Run For Your Wife

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1 hour ago, islandgal140 said:

I think it is just a case of her maybe being better at expressing herself in writing than orally.

Perhaps because it's more difficult to express herself orally while faking some sort of accent.

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5 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Ugh, the stuff with Gretchen. Tamra absolutely came across as so jealous of her, right from the very beginning. I think that Tamra was miserable in her marriage, struggling with issues related to her dead-beat son Ryan and the tensions they brought into the household, and faced with a younger and more beautiful (at least back then) gal on her turf. And she was nasty as hell to Gretchen, a person I didn't care for at all. 

But I think there was something else there. Tamra was a super sleuth long before Meghan joined the show. It seemed nasty and self-serving at the time in the ways she went about it, but she knew that Gretchen was a con artist right from the start. And if there is one thing I will give to Tamra - she has always hated the gals that are very fake on camera or pretending that their reality was different from what they portrayed on reality TV. Tamra was honest about her shitty marriage and the issues with her son. She was letting it all hang out long before Shannon was. And she was watching Gretchen craft this entire storyline that wasn't authentic. The same for Alexis, who barely had a pot to piss in, but went on and on about all of her possessions. While Tamra was showing the aftermath of an ugly divorce and being honest about the fact that she basically had no money and was moving into an apartment and her life was less than ideal. Just like she hated Gretchen and Alexis for the stories they were crafting, she detests Vicki for the same reason now. The fake cancer storyline. 

I think Tamra has in her history on the show been the most vile in many ways. I have disliked her more than any other HW (save for Vicki - no one will ever trump that). She has a lot of bad stuff on her resume. But I also think she has changed a lot in the last few years. She is so far from perfect. The deal with her daughter just turns my stomach. She needs to keep her name out of her mouth if that is what the daughter wants. I also get how hard that must be because the situation is agonizing. But she has to do it if she hopes for a relationship with her in the future. She handles this poorly in so many ways, even though I have a ton of empathy for what she is going through. But even though she doesn't handle it all in the best way, I have seen a ton of growth in her over the years. And it hasn't come about overnight, which would lead me to believe it is contrived. It has been a slow, steady process since she met and married Eddie. She seems truly happy and in love. Much more focused on the important stuff in life than in the shit that makes no difference. 

I recall back in the season 4 reunion that T amra revealed getting all the phone calls from the guy claiming to be dating Gretchen, etc...and she said she kept it under wraps and off camera...and she said at the reunion she wished she had spoken up about it because it was her primary reason for disliking Gretchen back in season 4.  Not saying I agree..but that was what she said.

There was a video she and Vicki did to promote season 9...and she said that any new.housewife that comes on...she will instantly dislike if they're pretending to be something they arent...and acting like they're doing it to become a star....and we know Gretchen and Alexis (to a lesser extent) were like that.  And remember Danielle from season 9 that was cut out...the rumor was that Danielle was making up stuff f9r her story.  i think with peggy...she doesn't know what makes her tick..and that both frustrates yet intrigues her.

T amra feels insecure over hotter and younger women, Vicki feels insecure around women that have rich men, and Heather felt insecure around women that had money (i.e. why she had issues with Lydia and Shannon...and rumor has it that Katie H, the housewife who quit, and her didn't get along

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Not to defend Tamra because she has been awful to some castmates but Meghan is younger, pretty (hotter is debatable) and she has been pretty cool with her. 

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My thoughts on what I saw last night:

  • The gals are training for one of those team obstacle course races. Bored now.
  • Peggy repeats her poorly-articulated breast cancer story to Shannon, who is confused as hell. I do not blame her, since Peggy's explanation is so nebulous and Peggy seems to be friends with Vicki, despite knowing about she and Brooks' cancer scam.
  • Sorry, I still see the logo of Tamra and Eddie's gym as "Cunt Fitness". Are they the only people using the facility, or is this being filmed off-hours?
  • Peggy and Dicko demonstrate they have no sense of humor with that butterfly act of their best friend's. Maybe it's funnier when he does it than Dicko?
  • "What mean `left field`?". You all have already covered that nonsense.
  • I do not care about Meghan and her baby. Meghan used to be a part-time model? Does that make her a "mactress"?
  • It was obvious to me that Brianna did not want to hear Vicki playing the martyr but was only there for the free lunch and babysitting. I was amused at the time lapse footage of Vicki going on and on and on about how she was wronged and has to forgive them 70 time 7777 times.
  • That aura reading machine was total bullshit (as if we didn't know that already) since Vicki has a red aura because she's a "fire child"!
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On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:13 AM, poeticlicensed said:

They need to put a clause in these bitches contracts that forces them to film together. It's ridiculous. Now I know why they keep Kelly Dodd on the show. She seems sane but get a couple of drinks in her and she is a sloppy loud drunk. 

I am sick of the entire storyline this season being how much everyone hates Vicki. 

 

Pretty much the same storyline as last year.  Time to move on AND put that clause in their contracts.

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I actually like that they aren't filming together because it would be fake as hell...and the shoe used to do separate vignettes for all the women through season 6.  Btw, season 3 of new York had jill.and Bethenny barely film through most of season 3 except for a few functions..and there were teams and gatherings that didn't include all of them and it wad their best season.

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I agree about putting a clause in their contracts, film with each and every housewife regardless of feelings or be fired. One on one I get but there is no excuse for not filming in group settings. 

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I just read the blogs and for those asking why Shannon didn't go support her husband, apparently the race was a weekend trip to Vegas and her kids all had athletic obligations that weekend.  So it's not like the race was around the corner and Shannon opted to stay home instead of taking an hour out of her day to support her husband. I'd imagine while he's off travelling to these races, someone needs to make sure their kids are taken care of at home and make it to wherever they are obligated to be. If David is off exercising all the time, he's not contributing to spending time with or taking care of the kids so yeah, I'm OK with Shannon being upset with him though I do think she shouldn't be looking to Tamra for backup--she should handle it with her husband. I'd also love it if we could stop calling her and Briana fat, as if that makes them less valuable human beings. One is clearly depressed and has massive anxiety and the other has a slew of medical problems and is raising 2 kids by herself so maybe we could be a little less judgy about their lack of motivation to work out as I suspect there is also a lack of ability to do so, albeit mental or physical.

As for Lydia, she is just stirring it up, isn't she. She chastises says she wants to form a relationship with Shannon which is why really wanted Shannon at the race and yet everything she says about Shannon in her THs is nasty and derogatory. I didn't like her the first time she was on the show and I like her even less now. They must have been really desperate to ask her back. She adds nothing to the show.

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I think Tamra is the only one who grew up poor, and was able to bounce back from the recession pretty easily because she knows how to economize and thrive on what now is a big paycheck instead of fronting with big ticket items and clothing.

She and Eddie seem to live very comfortably, but enjoy things like dune buggying instead of showing off in the UAE like Lauri and the wallet, or wasting 15k on a piece of jewelry like Jeana.   Cut probably functions as a tax shelter for her earnings, and a modest income stream for Eddie.  He also has a Bravo income, though obviously not as much as Tamra.

Tamra ain't going back to poor. 

Edited by Mu Shu
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3 hours ago, esco1822 said:

I just read the blogs and for those asking why Shannon didn't go support her husband, apparently the race was a weekend trip to Vegas and her kids all had athletic obligations that weekend.  So it's not like the race was around the corner and Shannon opted to stay home instead of taking an hour out of her day to support her husband. I'd imagine while he's off travelling to these races, someone needs to make sure their kids are taken care of at home and make it to wherever they are obligated to be. If David is off exercising all the time, he's not contributing to spending time with or taking care of the kids so yeah, I'm OK with Shannon being upset with him though I do think she shouldn't be looking to Tamra for backup--she should handle it with her husband.

I agree that Shannon has a legitimate issue with David if he has a new "mistress" in fitness - but it's the choice to emasculate him in front of friends, to nag him and to perpetually be miserable that makes it hard to sympathize with her. It feels like her default is to bitch and moan rather than to constructively cope and resolve.

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3 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

I agree that Shannon has a legitimate issue with David if he has a new "mistress" in fitness - but it's the choice to emasculate him in front of friends, to nag him and to perpetually be miserable that makes it hard to sympathize with her. It feels like her default is to bitch and moan rather than to constructively cope and resolve.

Shannon is SO elderly in her behavior, fashion, decorating etc. I know she's only 53-ish but there is nothing youthful about her. She almost seems like she could never be comfortable being a sexy woman. Which she could do. Maybe her family had strict religious beliefs constantly  driven into Shannon's head when she was a child. But I see a woman who is very uncomfortable being a WOMAN. Poor Shannon.

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5 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

I see Tamra in the exact same way. I think she is someone who knows how to live within her means. Even the gym - as misguided or badly executed as it might be (not speaking from factual knowledge, I have no idea whether Cut Fitness is successful or not - it certainly seems to be mostly empty on the show) - was Tamra's hope to create something successful that could continue to support her long after the show is over. Tamra seems to be in financial reality. She has also said that Andy likes her because she is a good employee - she never complains or gets demanding, etc - and I believe her. I think Tamra knows which side of her bread is buttered and she wants to keep her job.

Have you see Lydia's high school photos? She was actually very pretty when she had a fuller face.

Any chance you could post a link?  Pretty please?

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4 hours ago, Ki-in said:

I agree about putting a clause in their contracts, film with each and every housewife regardless of feelings or be fired. One on one I get but there is no excuse for not filming in group settings. 

On the one hand I am with you because I love the group stuff the most. But then it takes all of the reality out of our reality TV show. The answer, IMO, is to not hire and renew contracts for gals that no one likes. Quit bringing in people for them to film with like they do for Vicki. I read where Jac's contract wasn't renewed for this next season on the NJ show and she said that she was told she no longer had an "authentic connection to the rest of the cast". Fair enough. Of course she is also crazy and probably a thief, but that has never stopped Bravo from renewing a contract before. The lead chick on that franchise is crazy and a thief. The rule should be: If there are others that have reason to detest you, wish you weren't around, are completely offended by your very presence, and have been betrayed by you in ways that would make it impossible to actually interact with you in the real world, then you need to be gone girl. 

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1 minute ago, motorcitymom65 said:

On the one hand I am with you because I love the group stuff the most. But then it takes all of the reality out of our reality TV show. The answer, IMO, is to not hire and renew contracts for gals that no one likes. Quit bringing in people for them to film with like they do for Vicki. I read where Jac's contract wasn't renewed for this next season on the NJ show and she said that she was told she no longer had an "authentic connection to the rest of the cast". Fair enough. Of course she is also crazy and probably a thief, but that has never stopped Bravo from renewing a contract before. The lead chick on that franchise is crazy and a thief. The rule should be: If there are others that have reason to detest you, wish you weren't around, are completely offended by your very presence, and have been betrayed by you in ways that would make it impossible to actually interact with you in the real world, then you need to be gone girl. 

They actually did try to keep Jacqueline around - they offered her a friend role with possible upgrade to full time depending on how the season went. Jacqueline turned it down though. Which is just to say that I do think they try to keep the lighting rods for drama around as long as humanly possible!

The trouble with the OC, though, and mileage obviously varies on this, but personally I just don't think there's a show without Vicki. I truly believe Vicki is more essential to the success of the OC than Nene was to Atlanta or Jill/Bethenny was to NYC. On those other shows, there were other strong personalities who had stuff going on, there were other anchors. You had Kandi, you had Kenya, you had Ramona, etc. With OC, whom do you have? Yeah, Shannon is a pretty strong personality but she has shown barely any signs of fun since her friendship ended with Vicki. And she never has much to do outside of her OTT reactions to other people. And Tamra? Is she interesting in her own right? She just seems to exist as a plot device for drama. Can you imagine if they took Vicki out, and you had a cast that included Shannon, Tamra, Peggy, Lydia, Meghan and Kelly? Is that an ensemble? Or swap in any of the past housewives - Lizzie, Alexis, Gretchen, Lynn, Peggy v.1 - I feel like there hasn't been a single other "star" on this show aside from Vicki. They would seriously need to get someone vivacious and dynamic to replace Vicki. But the rate at which they've going recently (Meghan, Kelly, Peggy v.2), it seems like there is not a lot of TV gold out there in the OC.

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33 minutes ago, chenoa333 said:

Shannon is SO elderly in her behavior, fashion, decorating etc. I know she's only 53-ish but there is nothing youthful about her. She almost seems like she could never be comfortable being a sexy woman. Which she could do. Maybe her family had strict religious beliefs constantly  driven into Shannon's head when she was a child. But I see a woman who is very uncomfortable being a WOMAN. Poor Shannon.

Maybe even a little uncomfortable being a human - but so am I sometimes; the world of humans can be a bit much.

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27 minutes ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

The trouble with the OC, though, and mileage obviously varies on this, but personally I just don't think there's a show without Vicki.

Couldn't we tryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ???    Maybe shoot one season without her and if she seems to be needed/missed, she could be invited back.  Maybe she could learn some humility and fashion sense.

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22 minutes ago, nexxie said:

Maybe even a little uncomfortable being a human - but so am I sometimes; the world of humans can be a bit much.

Oh most definitely! That is why I prefer the world of animals/pets/nature.....all that is required is love, food, water and a safe/secure environment. 

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That aura reading machine was total bullshit (as if we didn't know that already) since Vicki has a red aura because she's a "fire child"!

It's like a mood ring mated with a computer.  

 

4 hours ago, esco1822 said:

I just read the blogs and for those asking why Shannon didn't go support her husband, apparently the race was a weekend trip to Vegas and her kids all had athletic obligations that weekend.  So it's not like the race was around the corner and Shannon opted to stay home instead of taking an hour out of her day to support her husband. I'd imagine while he's off travelling to these races, someone needs to make sure their kids are taken care of at home and make it to wherever they are obligated to be.

If it's a one-time thing for David to be gone to do something like this, I'd give him a pass, but if he is devoting all of his free time into his activities and not helping with their girls, then I can understand Shannon's frustration. It may be a trigger for her too with the affair.  It takes a long time to get past some of the trigger issues.  Just a guess.  Also,  I think Lydia needs to mind her own business when it comes to voicing her opinion about how Shannon should've been there to support her husband.  Pffftt.  I believe in that up to a point, but as a woman, I'm assuming that Shannon takes care of most of the household chores (I might be wrong in that assumption),  and she's probably got a hell of a lot going on with getting the girls to where they need to be.  He's got to be supportive of what the family is doing too.   I seriously doubt that she could train like David did either.  First of all, she's trying to get back into shape, so doing something as grueling as the Spartan is a little too much to ask of her, IMO.  I say this as an aerobically-challenged person, meaning that I can't run for a block without laying down and practically dying.   I just don't have the stamina for it.  Working out with light weights though, that's something I can do.  Anyway, I'm sure Shannon and David are still working on their issues, and they've probably both got some things they could work on as individuals.  I hope they make it!  

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6 hours ago, Jextella said:

With all the homophobia and fake marriage talk going on, she won't last past this season (or I'd be surprised if she did, anyway).  I think the show needed quick filler after Heather D left/was bounced.

That would be GREAT if she and Dicko won't be on next season. Can't stand either of them. Peggy is BORING and a bitch, and Dicko is a MAJOR egotist and an a hole.

5 hours ago, esco1822 said:

I just read the blogs and for those asking why Shannon didn't go support her husband, apparently the race was a weekend trip to Vegas and her kids all had athletic obligations that weekend.  So it's not like the race was around the corner and Shannon opted to stay home instead of taking an hour out of her day to support her husband. I'd imagine while he's off travelling to these races, someone needs to make sure their kids are taken care of at home and make it to wherever they are obligated to be. If David is off exercising all the time, he's not contributing to spending time with or taking care of the kids so yeah, I'm OK with Shannon being upset with him though I do think she shouldn't be looking to Tamra for backup--she should handle it with her husband. I'd also love it if we could stop calling her and Briana fat, as if that makes them less valuable human beings. One is clearly depressed and has massive anxiety and the other has a slew of medical problems and is raising 2 kids by herself so maybe we could be a little less judgy about their lack of motivation to work out as I suspect there is also a lack of ability to do so, albeit mental or physical.

As for Lydia, she is just stirring it up, isn't she. She chastises says she wants to form a relationship with Shannon which is why really wanted Shannon at the race and yet everything she says about Shannon in her THs is nasty and derogatory. I didn't like her the first time she was on the show and I like her even less now. They must have been really desperate to ask her back. She adds nothing to the show.

^THIS. Lydia is a shit stirrer. She and her BORING husband add NOTHING  to the show, except to flaunt their wealth - MAJOR YAWN!

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The more I see Shannon with David, the more I understand why he would be distant with her. Shannon did emasculate him at the table. She wants David to spend time with her but she wants it to be all on her terms. If that's the way you treat him when he's around you, then why should you be surprised when he's perfectly fine not being around you? Shannon wants to fix her marriage, she needs to learn how to spend time doing what her partner enjoys. They should do that for each other but it's unfair for one party to expect it but not have any intention of reciprocating. Considering Shannon's commitment to getting fit, it seems like the perfect opportunity to spend time with your husband if you likes to work out a lot. Though I suspect that Shannon begrudges David for his keenness to keep fit because she is now struggling with her weight and she would probably feel vulnerable and inferior to him because she's still learning. That said, I've done the Spartan Race. It was physically the hardest thing I've ever done but it was so incredibly rewarding to have completed the course. It could have taken me the entire day and I would have still felt proud of myself. I have to say, I think I would have fared better if I had run that course they did...the running portion looked like relatively flat ground. I had to cover my 5km going up and down ski hills. So brutal. Can't believe I'm saying this but I actually felt bad for David when you see the other two couples congratulating each other for getting through it and he was just standing there. 

Shannon came off a bit shady when she was trying to dissect Peggy's story but in fairness, Peggy didn't explain herself well. She told parts of a story and when Shannon was asking questions to make sense of it, Peggy also came across shady as well. Peggy is very pretentious. How many times does it have to be explained to her that it's not her place to tell people how to feel about a situation when they feel like they've been wronged. 

Kelly can't control her mouth. The peace between them won't last and judging by the previews, Kelly will expose herself once again. Oh the irony of telling a woman that she should be home taking care of her child as that same woman sit right beside her while her child is sitting at home without her. 

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Bored Hockey Addict was watching Southern Charm and Cam has this voodoo doll named Mama.....something. Anyhoo, knowing a bit about voodoo HA decided to invest. I think I'll name this one Kelly. Didnt have enough $$ for Vicky yet. Needles ready

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2 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

I agree that Shannon has a legitimate issue with David if he has a new "mistress" in fitness - but it's the choice to emasculate him in front of friends, to nag him and to perpetually be miserable that makes it hard to sympathize with her. It feels like her default is to bitch and moan rather than to constructively cope and resolve.

How is it emasculating?  It would be no different if David complained about Shannon having a hobby taking her away from the family.  David is basically selfish.  He is training for competition with a man whose wife provides the support for the family and his boutique business.  I totally get a commitment to fitness but not at the expense of one's family.  It is not bitching to state your opinion when the facts are on your side.  Maybe Tamra should be a better friend and not speak to Shannon's marriage.  Tamra claimed she knew her first two marriages were doomed, and yet she had three children with Simon.  Such a superficial bitch.  Shannon should be outraged with Tamra for her comments about her marriage.  Tamra needs to learn to edit..

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18 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

The more I see Shannon with David, the more I understand why he would be distant with her. Shannon did emasculate him at the table. She wants David to spend time with her but she wants it to be all on her terms. If that's the way you treat him when he's around you, then why should you be surprised when he's perfectly fine not being around you? Shannon wants to fix her marriage, she needs to learn how to spend time doing what her partner enjoys. They should do that for each other but it's unfair for one party to expect it but not have any intention of reciprocating. Considering Shannon's commitment to getting fit, it seems like the perfect opportunity to spend time with your husband if you likes to work out a lot. Though I suspect that Shannon begrudges David for his keenness to keep fit because she is now struggling with her weight and she would probably feel vulnerable and inferior to him because she's still learning. That said, I've done the Spartan Race. It was physically the hardest thing I've ever done but it was so incredibly rewarding to have completed the course. It could have taken me the entire day and I would have still felt proud of myself. I have to say, I think I would have fared better if I had run that course they did...the running portion looked like relatively flat ground. I had to cover my 5km going up and down ski hills. So brutal. Can't believe I'm saying this but I actually felt bad for David when you see the other two couples congratulating each other for getting through it and he was just standing there. 

Shannon came off a bit shady when she was trying to dissect Peggy's story but in fairness, Peggy didn't explain herself well. She told parts of a story and when Shannon was asking questions to make sense of it, Peggy also came across shady as well. Peggy is very pretentious. How many times does it have to be explained to her that it's not her place to tell people how to feel about a situation when they feel like they've been wronged. 

Kelly can't control her mouth. The peace between them won't last and judging by the previews, Kelly will expose herself once again. Oh the irony of telling a woman that she should be home taking care of her child as that same woman sit right beside her while her child is sitting at home without her. 

I am sorry there is nothing enjoyable about spending time with someone while they train for some vanity event.  Shannon knows her priority is with getting her children to their events -not 50+ David having some selfish pursuit.  Even Tamra has said she didn't train as she is so into her ridiculous vanity body building.

It has nothing to do with Shannon's weight it has everything to so with David keeping his commitment to his family.  David should have felt bad and Lydia is an idiot for not considering Shannon has a commitment to her children-unlike Lydiot who gets her children to the point of tears.  So many people ready to condemn for something as simple as being there for your children.

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2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I am sorry there is nothing enjoyable about spending time with someone while they train for some vanity event.  Shannon knows her priority is with getting her children to their events -not 50+ David having some selfish pursuit.  Even Tamra has said she didn't train as she is so into her ridiculous vanity body building.

It has nothing to do with Shannon's weight it has everything to so with David keeping his commitment to his family.  David should have felt bad and Lydia is an idiot for not considering Shannon has a commitment to her children-unlike Lydiot who gets her children to the point of tears.  So many people ready to condemn for something as simple as being there for your children.

Well the point wouldn't be spend time with them while THEY are working out/training. The point would be to do it together and be a support system for each other. Keeping fit and engaging in activities that encourage that and make you feel good about yourself aren't selfish pursuits that should be chastised. A selfish pursuit would be leaving his family to go entertain his side chick. Obviously we can't know for certain how much they communicate with one another but based on what I've seen, it doesn't seem like they have good communication skills. David should be making more time for his family, but is it possible that he would be open to spending family time engaging in outdoor activities that combine bonding with physical exercise? Is it possible that his daughters would actually enjoy spending time with their father in such a capacity? If Shannon is trying to communicate with them behind closed doors the way she does in front of their friends, are you really surprised that he isn't responding? I don't even know the man and even I've seen enough to know that he shuts down from confrontation. He lets her have her anger and insults and he responds with distancing himself from her rather than arguing or yelling back at her. They haven't learned how to communicate with one another in a healthy way and regardless of Shannon's intent of wanting family time with her husband and kids, she's still partially responsible for the state of the relationship between them. 

I'm not condemning her at all for her intentions regarding her children. Doesn't matter how great your intentions are, it doesn't make you immune to criticism when those intentions come with poor delivery. 

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On 8/29/2017 at 0:19 PM, Almost 3000 said:

I never believed the cousin was the nanny. She's a stand in for Jimmy being gone 90% of the time and a companion for Megan.

Actually, I am starting to believe that the cousin is the perfect nanny.

As Meghan says, "In the game of life, I choose my team wisely".

Having a family member as her nanny minimizes the risk of Jimmy sleeping with the nanny. 

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6 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I am sorry there is nothing enjoyable about spending time with someone while they train for some vanity event. 

Thank god it's not just *my* lazy ass thinking that. (To be fair to myself, I do walk ten miles a day -- smelling every rose as lines of Emily Dickinson and Mary Oliver waft through my tranquil mind  -- OKAY YES I HAVE FIGHTS IN MY HEAD WITH MY SISTER.)

I don't know how to choose between Shannon and David in any argument; they're  both so undeserving of the energy it would take to actually pick one side or the other. He's got all the powerful, come hither energy of a hangdog fifth in command to a cult leader ("Can I hand out the koolaid this time? PLEASE?") and she's wobbly inside -- all jello-like --  except for the self pity. THAT fucking emotion she can wield like a samurai. The minute she reaches her sweet spot (playing victim AND martyr) she turns into Lucy Lu in Kill Bill, running down the middle of the table, wielding the mighty Sword of Pity as she hands out 356 calorie chicken breasts.  Other than that, she's soft and weepy and borderless, like liver pate sitting in the sun. 

I just end up wanting to shake them both -- give me something to work with, a fight I can get invested in -- choke on those chips, rub the chicken breasts on *your* naked breasts while screaming "I AM SOMEBODY!"  -- anything but this dull, tedious, endless round of grey. Because who cares if he's fleeing you to work out? I WOULD TOO.  Who cares if she snaps every time you act all hangdoggish? I WOULD TOO.  

Edited by film noire
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14 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

The trouble with the OC, though, and mileage obviously varies on this, but personally I just don't think there's a show without Vicki. I truly believe Vicki is more essential to the success of the OC than Nene was to Atlanta or Jill/Bethenny was to NYC.

I think that Bravo agrees with this. I just don't. I do not think that Vicki is a strong anchor. At all.  She is not well liked by the cast or the audience.  She in not funny, likable, or interesting. What she is is ridiculous. On some shows you have it and it works. On the BH show it would be unthinkable to not have LVP in the cast, which I can say even though I am not always her biggest fan. She is just too central to everything, is beloved by the audience (to the point I sometimes throw up in my mouth), and the rest of the cast always wants to interact with her. Even if they don't like her, they want to be around her. Bethenny can say all kinds of things to the other girls, piss them off left and right, and they still want to be around her. This is not the case with Vicki. She doesn't make the show better in her own right. Ever. 

I think they keep Vicki around hoping that age old formula of "will they or won't they be friends again" will take hold and people will be hoping and praying for a Vicki/Tamra reconciliation. But I just don't think that most people give two shits. They want them to interact, because we like our HW's to travel in a pack, but most don't care if they are friends or not. This is not Kyle and LVP, where a good portion of the viewing audience just wanted them to be friends again. Because so many people cared about them. No. One. Cares. 

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30 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think that Bravo agrees with this. I just don't. I do not think that Vicki is a strong anchor. At all.  She is not well liked by the cast or the audience.  She in not funny, likable, or interesting. What she is is ridiculous. On some shows you have it and it works. On the BH show it would be unthinkable to not have LVP in the cast, which I can say even though I am not always her biggest fan.

Again, I think mileage varies on this, because I personally find Vicki very interesting to watch. Always have, always will. In fact, she is my most favorite housewife of all the franchises. Not because I "like" her per se, but because I find her fascinating to watch - her narcissism, her neediness, her tackiness, her good grandma-ness, her work ethic, her destructive life choices, her whoop-it-up-ness, her complete lack of shame/censor ("I want to punish them for not being my friends"), all of it. I also do find her funny. Both to laugh at her - "Family Van!" - but, yes, also with her - the few times I have laughed out loud this season have come from Vicki's comic timing, her dry "You have a beautiful store" when Kelly was talking loudly about her own vagina and even her talking head jab, "I'm flattered that Shannon thinks of me when she's eating too much and not working out." Obviously, not everyone will agree on every cast member, but Vicki works for me. That said, I agree with you that the problem is now that two of the women refuse to film with her, and it is ruining this season. For me, the solution is not to get rid of Vicki. I mean, seriously, who is left without her? Are any of these women central to the show in the way that you described? I think Shannon can be funny and likable, but she doesn't have anyone right now to play off in a fun way (like LVP has Kyle). I don't think Tamra can be the star of the show. I think OC is simply adrift right now. Personally, I cannot imagine how dry and boring this show would be without Vicki.

Edited by PhilMarlowe2
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Everyone is left after Vicki.  Cast a few newbies.  The only person in entertainment who was irreplaceable was Dick Button.  She's been so awful the past three seasons that all I can feel is disgust when her hideously ugly face is on my TV.   I enjoy a good hate watch, but she's so far gone I can't even hate watch her anymore.   

Once Vickis family life crumbled, all that was left to me was a hollowed out bag, who is of limited intellect, not funny, not nice, not nice to look at, who has to pay people to be around her.  She's just an awful sociopath with zero charm.

i find nothing interesting about a puke of a woman who would team up with a puke of a man to sell false hopes to cancer patients, even if she did believe he had cancer.

she knew he didn't.  All this fucking bitch cared about was having someone around.  The cancer faking ugly no job having loser is the best fugly Gunvalson could do.

stick a fork in her.  She's done.  I can't believe the state of California hasn't revoked her license after she tried to pull off the kill all cancer scam. 

Anyway, it's time to skew younger and bring in a new audience.  

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1 hour ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

That said, I agree with you that the problem is now that two of the women refuse to film with her, and it is ruining this season. For me, the solution is not to get rid of Vicki. I mean, seriously, who is left without her? Are any of these women central to the show in the way that you described? I think Shannon can be funny and likable, but she doesn't have anyone right now to play off in a fun way (like LVP has Kyle). I don't think Tamra can be the star of the show. I think OC is simply adrift right now. Personally, I cannot imagine how dry and boring this show would be without Vicki.

I know they have their reasons but Shannon and Tamra are ruining the season by refusing to film with Vicki.  They are part of the same cast.  It is like when you work with someone who you feel has betrayed you.  You pretty much have to get over it enough to be cordial.  Plus it is BORING as hell to rehash the cancer thing over and over. I thought it was boring when Meghan et all were doing their "investigation" on Brooks.  Then there are 2 more seasons of talking about it.  Most people are over it and most of the audience does not hate Vicki (the exception being message board participants who (although vocal) make up a small part of the audience).  Really, most people just watch the show for entertainment and don't really care. (I do understand the people who think it is awful). The producers on this show and the other versions encourage the women to repeat gossip they have heard to make things entertaining (Atlanta, anyone?).  A lot is not true, but there are seeds of truth.  Otherwise the reaction would be more to laugh it off instead of drawing attention to it. If Shannon's kids hear anything about the false accusations, it is because Shannon won't let it go and talks about it all the time! 

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On August 30, 2017 at 3:34 AM, bravofan27 said:

This is what Shannon wants, IMO.

David to come home from work and present her with flowers. To hold the flowers as she finds a vase, and help her find the best place to put the flowers. To offer to take a selfie, with him, Shannon and the flowers. Then he will post it on FB and tag Shannon. The message will say, "I love my wife so much, I couldn't resist these beautiful flowers to tell her so." The picture will follow. David will understand this flower thing put dinner behind schedule. He will say, "Dear. I know I love you, and the flowers are beautiful like you. I'm so happy you like them. However, I'm afraid I have put dinner behind schedule. How can I help you? Should I set the table?" And Shannon will say, "Oh no, the table is set, I just need to make the salad." And David will INSIST she go upstairs and freshen up for dinner and get the kids and that he will finish all the dinner preparations. He will ask if there is anything specific he should do. He will ask if there is a timer, a particular vegetable, a spoon, a dish, a utensil, that she would like him to use. He will then insist on pouring her a glass of wine, and ask her what she would like. As she goes upstairs he will say, "Dear, just go freshen up, I will have dinner and drink ready for you when you come back."
 

Yes, this is what Shannon wants.

Every. Single. Day. 

David is in a hell of his own making. He will never be happy if he stays married to Shannon, and what a sad situation. Life is too short for this. :(

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17 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

They actually did try to keep Jacqueline around - they offered her a friend role with possible upgrade to full time depending on how the season went. Jacqueline turned it down though. Which is just to say that I do think they try to keep the lighting rods for drama around as long as humanly possible!

The trouble with the OC, though, and mileage obviously varies on this, but personally I just don't think there's a show without Vicki. I truly believe Vicki is more essential to the success of the OC than Nene was to Atlanta or Jill/Bethenny was to NYC. On those other shows, there were other strong personalities who had stuff going on, there were other anchors. You had Kandi, you had Kenya, you had Ramona, etc. With OC, whom do you have? Yeah, Shannon is a pretty strong personality but she has shown barely any signs of fun since her friendship ended with Vicki. And she never has much to do outside of her OTT reactions to other people. And Tamra? Is she interesting in her own right? She just seems to exist as a plot device for drama. Can you imagine if they took Vicki out, and you had a cast that included Shannon, Tamra, Peggy, Lydia, Meghan and Kelly? Is that an ensemble? Or swap in any of the past housewives - Lizzie, Alexis, Gretchen, Lynn, Peggy v.1 - I feel like there hasn't been a single other "star" on this show aside from Vicki. They would seriously need to get someone vivacious and dynamic to replace Vicki. But the rate at which they've going recently (Meghan, Kelly, Peggy v.2), it seems like there is not a lot of TV gold out there in the OC.

I normally agree anchors are important but I don't think ethics should be sacrificed for an anchor.  We will never know when she found out Brooks was lying but we know she perpetuated it.  That alone should force her to lose anchor status and go back to just selling insurance.  I do not like seeing people like her rewarded.  Just like Teresa G.  Scum and needs to lose the show and funds that go with it.  A 'Real" housewife that did this would be a pariah.  If the show cannot exist without her then there shouldn't be a show.  I think it would do just fine with her gone.

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46 minutes ago, Palomar said:

I know they have their reasons but Shannon and Tamra are ruining the season by refusing to film with Vicki.  They are part of the same cast.  It is like when you work with someone who you feel has betrayed you.  You pretty much have to get over it enough to be cordial.  Plus it is BORING as hell to rehash the cancer thing over and over. I thought it was boring when Meghan et all were doing their "investigation" on Brooks.  Then there are 2 more seasons of talking about it.  Most people are over it and most of the audience does not hate Vicki (the exception being message board participants who (although vocal) make up a small part of the audience).  Really, most people just watch the show for entertainment and don't really care. (I do understand the people who think it is awful). The producers on this show and the other versions encourage the women to repeat gossip they have heard to make things entertaining (Atlanta, anyone?).  A lot is not true, but there are seeds of truth.  Otherwise the reaction would be more to laugh it off instead of drawing attention to it. If Shannon's kids hear anything about the false accusations, it is because Shannon won't let it go and talks about it all the time! 

You are correct!  And the cancer thing will never be gone until Vicki is.  You JUST CANNOT forget that sort of thing.  Like it or not, that is Vicki's description now.  Liar about cancer because she was so desperate to have a man she conned people in one of the most tasteless and vile ways possible.  If that is what they want their show to be about they will keep her.  If they want their show to be about other things happening in Orange County they fire her dumbass.  

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In their first season on OC, didn't David coach the twins' basketball team?  He made them late for some event (Heather's groundbreaking party?) because there was a game. I got the impression that he was close with the girls.  I wonder if he still coaches, or is Shannon just whining about what's going on at the moment with him not spending time with them?  I like Shannon (most of the time), but she needs to calm the f down and stop overreacting to everything.

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38 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

In their first season on OC, didn't David coach the twins' basketball team?  He made them late for some event (Heather's groundbreaking party?) because there was a game. I got the impression that he was close with the girls.  I wonder if he still coaches, or is Shannon just whining about what's going on at the moment with him not spending time with them?  I like Shannon (most of the time), but she needs to calm the f down and stop overreacting to everything.

Yes, David did coach the girls BB team, which is also where he met his mistress! So, I can see why Shannon is acting a bit worried that he isn't spending time at home, she is worried that history is repeating itself. 

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13 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, David did coach the girls BB team, which is also where he met his mistress! So, I can see why Shannon is acting a bit worried that he isn't spending time at home, she is worried that history is repeating itself. 

I thought the affair had already started before the season began filming, or at about the same time.  I may be wrong.  I remember she got upset when he was flirting with Megan, who wasn't a HW yet, but happened to be at the party.

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2 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

I thought the affair had already started before the season began filming, or at about the same time.  I may be wrong.  I remember she got upset when he was flirting with Megan, who wasn't a HW yet, but happened to be at the party.

Yes, the affair started when filming began Shannon's first season. David was coaching the girls BB team at the same time, that was why he was late to Heather/Terry's ground breaking party where we met Meghan the first time (the season before she joined the cast). 

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On 8/29/2017 at 6:50 AM, motorcitymom65 said:

Completely agree. Married for 31 years and much of our interests are different. But we find a way to encourage each other in the things we love. The thing is, we both have things that we love, so we get what brings the other joy. I love my book club and my husband loves his golf. My husband loves to fish and wants to do it every single weekend. I hate to fish and have no interest. So I took up paddle boarding and it was hard. I am not athletic, so it took me a while to get the swing of things. But now we both go to the lake. He fishes, I paddle board, and we meet a couple hours later on the boat for sandwiches and white wine (only a glass - we are careful). We have found a way to spend time together, with each doing the thing that makes us happy. I am just not sure what makes Shannon happy, and I don't think that Shannon knows either. 

I like this, motorcitymom65. It's a good post about how to enjoy time together and still pursue your separate interests.  Have that second glass of wine ! (at least once in a while!)

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18 hours ago, PhilMarlowe2 said:

The trouble with the OC, though, and mileage obviously varies on this, but personally I just don't think there's a show without Vicki. I truly believe Vicki is more essential to the success of the OC than Nene was to Atlanta or Jill/Bethenny was to NYC. On those other shows, there were other strong personalities who had stuff going on, there were other anchors. You had Kandi, you had Kenya, you had Ramona, etc. With OC, whom do you have? Yeah, Shannon is a pretty strong personality but she has shown barely any signs of fun since her friendship ended with Vicki. And she never has much to do outside of her OTT reactions to other people. And Tamra? Is she interesting in her own right? She just seems to exist as a plot device for drama. Can you imagine if they took Vicki out, and you had a cast that included Shannon, Tamra, Peggy, Lydia, Meghan and Kelly? Is that an ensemble? Or swap in any of the past housewives - Lizzie, Alexis, Gretchen, Lynn, Peggy v.1 - I feel like there hasn't been a single other "star" on this show aside from Vicki. They would seriously need to get someone vivacious and dynamic to replace Vicki. But the rate at which they've going recently (Meghan, Kelly, Peggy v.2), it seems like there is not a lot of TV gold out there in the OC.

I think it's funny that you list Kandi as a strong personality. Until the past two seasons, Kandi could relied to be up Phaedra's ass and letting her horrible family walk all over her. She always had a story, but she was never really a strong personality. She and Phaedra became friends because she was the only person who never questioned Phaedra's bullshit and lies about the due date of her oldest child.

Vicki is a strong personality, but she's an asshole who turns on everybody and her life is BORING. They decided to cast around Vicki and give her 3 women who would be her allies. This quartet still hasn't produced a single interesting or entertaining scene yet. The irony of this is that every interesting scene with the other 3 members of the Vickelles (Kelly, Lydia, and Peggy) has featured one of the women who want nothing to do with Vicki. I think you are confusing anchor with plot. Vicki isn't doing anything interesting. She isn't compelling even in the way that Ramona or Bethenny are. Vicki is dumb, greedy, and incapable of checking her base narcissism to wreak havoc the way Ramona, Kenya, Sonja, or Phaedra can. Vicki isn't self aware enough for that.

I think you're confusing the fact that the central conflict for 2 seasons has been Vicki. She's the storyline not an anchor. I actually have faith that if Vicki was excised from the cast, there would still be enough conflict to make an interesting season. For example, if Kelly was the one who had to be life flighted when they were in Glamis, I don't think the argument would have changed all that much. That was an argument about manners and a difference in values. Shannon legitimately couldn't stand Kelly at that point and Meghan was fairly tired of her antics too. They would likely still have been reluctant to go to the hospital. Vicki needs to go.

I will say that I really love that Shannon and Tamra aren't refusing to film with Vicki. They are just refusing to talk to her. A lockout is great for someone like her.

I know this sounds super high school mean girl, but we did that to a girl I went to school with. She was driving in her Mercedes and trying to roll a joint at the same time. She ended up crashing her car. She had been giving another girl in our class a ride. They weren't friends. The mother of the girl who was getting a ride was a teacher at the school. The girl who crashed her car was afraid the rider was going to narc to her mom. The driver started spreading nasty lies about the rider. First at our school and then at other schools. It just pissed me off so tremendously that I proposed we lock her out. No one said a single word to her for the rest of the year. She transferred. I would never spread gossip about her of which there was a ton. I just felt that there had to be a way to communicate that her behavior was not ok. Words meant nothing to her, but the absence of words meant everything. Shannon and Tamra have told Vicki what she did wrong, but Vicki refuses to get it. However, Vicki was really bothered because they completely refused to acknowledge or say anything to her. Bravo!

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1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

You are correct!  And the cancer thing will never be gone until Vicki is.  You JUST CANNOT forget that sort of thing.  Like it or not, that is Vicki's description now.  Liar about cancer because she was so desperate to have a man she conned people in one of the most tasteless and vile ways possible.  If that is what they want their show to be about they will keep her.  If they want their show to be about other things happening in Orange County they fire her dumbass.  

That's how I feel. Plus she is just a sanctimonious bitch who can't get over Shannon and Tamra and I want to slap her everytime she insists that they owe her an apology. Even if the story about David beating Shannon up were true which I don't believe it is but she didn't share it with Kelly out of concern for Shannon she did it because she is a gossipy bitch and a horrible friend.

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@motorcitymom65 (and @Pegasaurus for reposting it)  what you said, MCM, should be written in stone. It was something my brother explained to me years ago (after a failed relationship). He's been married almost 50 years. His wife took up fly fishing (probably boating) as a means for them to spend time together. She even now ties her own flies according to what's biting and can outfish him lol. Their quality time is so good that they are secure and even take off on separate vacations (she prefers to travel more but has a great group of gals to do it with) or he'll stay home or beg a meal at my place.  Point is (and kudos to "non-athletic you) for learning to paddle board as a means of bonding and exercise. Me, I'd be on the shore reading a novel under a tree. So many people base their life on their children and then have no similar or shared interests after the kids start to become independent. Shannons kids are now getting ready to spread their wings and dinner (especially if Shannon is cooking) and drinks are not enough to hold a marriage together. 

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2 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

In their first season on OC, didn't David coach the twins' basketball team?  He made them late for some event (Heather's groundbreaking party?) because there was a game. I got the impression that he was close with the girls.  I wonder if he still coaches, or is Shannon just whining about what's going on at the moment with him not spending time with them?  I like Shannon (most of the time), but she needs to calm the f down and stop overreacting to everything.

Yea, I can see David RECENTLY putting in extra time at the gym to train for the Spartan thing, but I don't see him just completely bailing on the girls and their sports. He doesn't have a history of doing so, but Shannon does have a history of blowing things out of proportion. Plus, she's always so passive aggressive. Has she ever once just sat him down and calmly, respectfully discussed the issue? Or does she just throw jabs like "as he goes for the chips" out there? 

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59 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

That's how I feel. Plus she is just a sanctimonious bitch who can't get over Shannon and Tamra and I want to slap her everytime she insists that they owe her an apology. Even if the story about David beating Shannon up were true which I don't believe it is but she didn't share it with Kelly out of concern for Shannon she did it because she is a gossipy bitch and a horrible friend.

Exactly!  Also, if David was beating Shannon why did good friend Vicki not send the police to their house?  Why weaponize something so personal and horrid?  Because she is a shit person.

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45 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

That's how I feel. Plus she is just a sanctimonious bitch who can't get over Shannon and Tamra and I want to slap her everytime she insists that they owe her an apology. Even if the story about David beating Shannon up were true which I don't believe it is but she didn't share it with Kelly out of concern for Shannon she did it because she is a gossipy bitch and a horrible friend.

Vicki was so superior and sanctimonious when Meghan and Shannon refused to come to the hospital after the Glamis accident. Vicki said that she would have gone if Shannon was in the hospital because that's what decent people do. Except when given a chance to prove that she's a decent person she completely whiffs it.

If David is truly abusing Shannon as Vicki contends, Vicki failed to go to the police. She failed to go to Shannon. She failed to tell one of Shannon's friends (Meghan, Tamra, or Heather) about her concerns. Heck she didn't even share it as a bit of solidarity with Kelly as Kelly is recounting her own tales of her contentious marriage. Or Tamra and Simon's issues to make the case that Kelly should reconsider Shannon and Tamra because they might be able to bond with Kelly over marital woes. Nope, Vicki "knows" that a woman in her circle is being physically abused and does worse than nothing with the information. Vicki shares the info not to help Shannon, but to hurt Shannon. Vicki has no self-awareness. Even when you view Vicki's actions in the light most sympathetic to Vicki, she's still a horrible person and complete hypocrite. 

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2 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Vicki was so superior and sanctimonious when Meghan and Shannon refused to come to the hospital after the Glamis accident. Vicki said that she would have gone if Shannon was in the hospital because that's what decent people do. Except when given a chance to prove that she's a decent person she completely whiffs it.

If David is truly abusing Shannon as Vicki contends, Vicki failed to go to the police. She failed to go to Shannon. She failed to tell one of Shannon's friends (Meghan, Tamra, or Heather) about her concerns. Heck she didn't even share it as a bit of solidarity with Kelly as Kelly is recounting her own tales of her contentious marriage. Or Tamra and Simon's issues to make the case that Kelly should reconsider Shannon and Tamra because they might be able to bond with Kelly over marital woes. Nope, Vicki "knows" that a woman in her circle is being physically abused and does worse than nothing with the information. Vicki shares the info not to help Shannon, but to hurt Shannon. Vicki has no self-awareness. Even when you view Vicki's actions in the light most sympathetic to Vicki, she's still a horrible person and complete hypocrite. 

Vicki has such a bad track record when it comes to how she treats people that it's just baffling to me that she thinks she's in any position to criticize someone's ability to be a 'decent person'. She's had a mean girl personality for most of her time on the show, expecting the new women to pass her initiation and prove that they were cool enough to sit at the table with her. In the meantime, she passed judgments on them and their choices, whether it was about their children, marriage, or their occupation (or lack thereof) and she did it for no reason other than they made choices different from hers and of course in her mind, her choices are the right choices. Let's ignore that those choices led her two failed marriages, a relationship with a scumbag who faked cancer, a relationship with her daughter who not only eloped because she didn't want to deal with her mother's judgement about her adult decisions, but had a fractured relationship with her mother because her mother prioritizing her love tank over the fact that everyone else could see that her love tank was being filled by a really vile human being.

And spot on with your assessment about Vicki's intent - she didn't give a shit about Shannon's safety she only cared to use it as gossip against a woman that had phased her out and stopped being her friend. Kelly is lucky that she came on this show at a time when Vicki had fractured every single relationship around her because if that hadn't happened, Kelly would be dealing with a whole other Vicki. I wonder what Vicki's response will be when Meghan challenges her to produce the evidence...does anyone remember if Shannon challenged Vicki to produce the evidence at the reunion when Vicki insisted that she had evidence to back it up? I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility that Vicki is telling the truth about Shannon, but given how adamant Shannon has been in shooting down Vicki's comments, it makes me think at best, Vicki has texts that could allude domestic abuse but doesn't directly say that it is.

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1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

I think you are confusing anchor with plot. Vicki isn't doing anything interesting.

I'm not confusing anything with anything - these are all matters of personal opinion. I find Vicki storylines more interesting than the other cast members. I don't find Tamra doing Spartan Race all that interesting, I don't find Shannon's buttermilk chicken breasts all that interesting, I don't find Meghan's modeling career all that interesting, or Kelly's vaginal rejuvenation. By contrast, I don't mind the family scenes with Vicki and her kids, I think she is likeable as a grandmother, I am morbidly fascinated by her creepy son-in-law, and I actually find her insurance business interesting because it's  real work, which is so rare on this show. Granted it might be damning with faint praise, but I just think Vicki's life - her romances, her family, her work - is way more interesting than the other women that they cast, and I simply cannot imagine this show if it were, say, Lizzie or Gretchen in her place. Again, this is my opinion.

As far as the morality of Vicki being on the show after the cancer scam, I just feel like if Tamra can continue to be on this show after basically trying to get Gretchen sexually assaulted, there's really no going lower.

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Vicki used to be funny.  Not that she was witty, but it was fun to laugh at her.  She used to seem clueless and hopelessly self centered, but ultimately harmless.

except she isn't harmless.  Family van.  Chink a chink a chinaman.  No scratchy the woody.  She was always a smug bigot who bullied people she thought were lower than herself.  Bullied her kids.  Donn.   Treated Laurie like an underling when she was down on her luck.  

Her life is dull.  Homely , not intelligent woman from the Midwest has affair with homely man who gets a great position and moves to California.  She opens an "insurance selling" agency while Donn's income allows her and her unremarkable kids to live comfortably and grow her business without risk.   Divorces Donn, claims she has to give him "her " money (never mind he was the breadwinner for most of the marriage), takes up with the biggest loser yokel that most trailer park queens would steer clear of.  Gets older but not wiser, loses work friends, probably has no personal friends.   

There's just no there anymore for me.  Her status on the show always puzzled me, because she has always seemed like some ignorant doofus dropped in the middle of an affluent area, and never adapted to the lifestyle.   I get we are supposed to laugh at her, but it's at the point where laughing at her is accepting her bigotry, bullying, lying, and all around grossness.  To accept Vicki is to condone her.

I'M DONE!!!  No, really.  I'm done with her.

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